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Offline happyg

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« on: November 15, 2013, 06:42:34 PM »

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 06:51:43 PM »
the Las Vegas Review-Journal came out against Reid being re-elected in 2010, but never fear if he helps O give exemptions to the unions the SEIU will have his back in Vegas so he is not going to be moved by this one little bit.

Offline DCPatriot

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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 07:04:15 PM »
Sorry to tell you this....but there are NO coincidences here.

Dismantle it with what?

They are going to push "Single Payer"....as the white knight.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline Cincinnatus

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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 07:24:34 PM »
Good question: Dismantle it with what?

Don't forget those millions whose policies have already been cancelled. Where can they go?

Single payer may be offered as the solution, but I don't see Obama right now as having the political power or the credibility to get it passed. It's possible, of course, but it isn't 2008 when the Dems dominated the Congress and Obama was the Messiah. 
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Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 07:29:13 PM »
Sorry to tell you this....but there are NO coincidences here.

Dismantle it with what?

They are going to push "Single Payer"....as the white knight.

So you think the American public will support replacing the failure of a massive government intervention in one-sixth of the economy with an even LARGER government intervention? 

No, friend.  The failure of Obamacare means that single payer is dead for a generation.  Republicans have two or three options ready to go, but it's wise that they not put anything out there that will change the subject from Obamacare's failure.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 07:33:31 PM »
Good question: Dismantle it with what?

Don't forget those millions whose policies have already been cancelled. Where can they go?

Single payer may be offered as the solution, but I don't see Obama right now as having the political power or the credibility to get it passed. It's possible, of course, but it isn't 2008 when the Dems dominated the Congress and Obama was the Messiah.

Kill the damned bill and return everything where it belongs, the private sector.  Until they do the Democrats are going to continue to bleed. Bob Cusak was just on Greta and said in 20 years of working on Capital Hill he has never, ever seen such a swift reversal of fortunes.  He said Republicans (who have now been proven to be right all along) are rightfully gloating and the Democrats  (who were all tight as a tick on the shutdown)  are the heroes and everyone who fought them are now looking for cover (that would also be the yellow-spined Republicans who did not back the Republicans who wanted to push this a month ago.

Offline DCPatriot

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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 07:36:55 PM »
Good question: Dismantle it with what?

Don't forget those millions whose policies have already been cancelled. Where can they go?

Single payer may be offered as the solution, but I don't see Obama right now as having the political power or the credibility to get it passed. It's possible, of course, but it isn't 2008 when the Dems dominated the Congress and Obama was the Messiah.

Well, I was coming from the position that 'cost' was the primary culprit for all this shock and awe reaction.  Premiums are doubling and deductibles tripling.

Single payer...what?  $100 per month?  Like he said...."cheaper than your cell phone bill".

Of course, then the fight becomes allowing the government to have that much control over your health and life.

I just think if they vocalize the 'bennies' of single payer being cheap, cheap....it declaws the opposition quite a bit.  To the LIV anyway.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 07:40:32 PM »
Sorry to tell you this....but there are NO coincidences here.

Dismantle it with what?

They are going to push "Single Payer"....as the white knight.

I share your skepticism in general but there is no frigging way the single payer stallion will ride in to save this. That is not on the table.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline DCPatriot

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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 07:41:26 PM »
So you think the American public will support replacing the failure of a massive government intervention in one-sixth of the economy with an even LARGER government intervention? 


If the typical citizen found out it would 'only' cost less than $100 per month....too many would.

I'm not defending government-run health care.   I'm trying to gauge what's around the corner...what's next.

Quote

No, friend.  The failure of Obamacare means that single payer is dead for a generation.  Republicans have two or three options ready to go, but it's wise that they not put anything out there that will change the subject from Obamacare's failure.

Well, the Senate already said that they won't entertain anything sent from the GOP controlled House.

But I agree...stand back and gloat.  The turn-around of fortunes here is astounding.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline DCPatriot

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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 07:42:41 PM »
I share your skepticism in general but there is no frigging way the single payer stallion will ride in to save this. That is not on the table.

I hope I'm wrong.

Not like that hasn't happened before.....   :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 07:45:07 PM »
Where do you get the idea it is cheap?  In Europe their version of SS/Medicare tax is over 40% and they pay income taxes on top of it....... there is no "free" lunch.    Single Payer is nothing more than income redistribution...   fact is the insurance companies are supporting these exchanges and the higher premiums and higher deductibles and co-pays because it is mana for their bottom line - aka profit - lots and lots of profit.  It is why they helped Obama push and pass this bill in the first place and it is also why they will turn on a dime and fight single payer... because then they will have to bid to be the "processing" company in each state and the government always goes with the cheapest bid... which is why in California alone in the last four years medicare has gone from NHIC to Palmetto to Noridan.

Offline Bigun

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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 08:23:50 PM »
Kill the damned bill and return everything where it belongs, the private sector.  Until they do the Democrats are going to continue to bleed. Bob Cusak was just on Greta and said in 20 years of working on Capital Hill he has never, ever seen such a swift reversal of fortunes.  He said Republicans (who have now been proven to be right all along) are rightfully gloating and the Democrats  (who were all tight as a tick on the shutdown)  are the heroes and everyone who fought them are now looking for cover (that would also be the yellow-spined Republicans who did not back the Republicans who wanted to push this a month ago.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Spot on!

Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 08:30:54 PM »
Kill the damned bill and return everything where it belongs, the private sector.  Until they do the Democrats are going to continue to bleed. Bob Cusak was just on Greta and said in 20 years of working on Capital Hill he has never, ever seen such a swift reversal of fortunes.  He said Republicans (who have now been proven to be right all along) are rightfully gloating and the Democrats  (who were all tight as a tick on the shutdown)  are the heroes and everyone who fought them are now looking for cover (that would also be the yellow-spined Republicans who did not back the Republicans who wanted to push this a month ago.

I agree with you Rap, repeal is what's required, but there is no way in hell this President will ever allow Obamacare to be repealed, nor will Harry Reid and his faithful followers in the Senate.  Even if a bill squeaked through both houses, Obama would veto it, and I doubt the Dhimmies have the guts or the votes to override it.  We're talking a repudiation of an entire Presidency and the demise of the Democrat Party, and they will not go politely.

And in the meantime, the damage continues to accrue.  Keep in mind that the only way so-called "Single Payer" works is if you can find a way to collapse the private insurance market, and that is exactly what is underway as we speak.  Obama can take a lot of heat on this because he doesn't have to get reelected again and he thinks if he doesn't act like a lame duck then nobody can treat him like one.



Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 08:38:03 PM »
The repeal takes place 12 months from now.  I am praying the midterms are epic.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 08:38:47 PM »
But it is a prayer.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 08:44:25 PM »
The repeal takes place 12 months from now.  I am praying the midterms are epic.

Is that soon enough Lando??  My God, look at the damage done so far...

Offline Lando Lincoln

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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 08:51:35 PM »
Is that soon enough Lando??  My God, look at the damage done so far...

No, of course not Chief.  But this bunch - Obama, Pelosi, Reid - everything hangs in the balance.  Everything.  They will play the subsidy shell game to keep hope afloat for their socialist ponzi scheme.  They are the ultimate ends-justify-the-means crowd. 

The only other way it will happen is a revolt by Senate Democrats.  And it needs to be a REVOLT.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 09:23:05 PM »
No, of course not Chief.  But this bunch - Obama, Pelosi, Reid - everything hangs in the balance.  Everything.  They will play the subsidy shell game to keep hope afloat for their socialist ponzi scheme.  They are the ultimate ends-justify-the-means crowd. 

The only other way it will happen is a revolt by Senate Democrats.  And it needs to be a REVOLT.

That would have to require the terrified 12 changing affiliation to Republican.....and would require a super majority in both parties to have the spine to vote to override a presidential veto... if I was running and wanted to survive this is exactly what I would do... but I don't expect any of these 12 will.

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 09:25:12 PM »
BTW notice how very VERY quiet Peter King is all of a sudden.

Offline Chieftain

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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 09:32:55 PM »
No, of course not Chief.  But this bunch - Obama, Pelosi, Reid - everything hangs in the balance.  Everything.  They will play the subsidy shell game to keep hope afloat for their socialist ponzi scheme.  They are the ultimate ends-justify-the-means crowd. 

The only other way it will happen is a revolt by Senate Democrats.  And it needs to be a REVOLT.

I'm pretty well convinced that all of them will run this thing right into the ground.  If Pelosi were returned as Speaker....


Offline aligncare

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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2013, 09:55:59 PM »
NeverTrump wants to deny you YOUR voice, YOUR presidential choice.


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