Author Topic: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'  (Read 1133 times)

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Offline Rapunzel

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39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« on: November 15, 2013, 02:14:59 PM »
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/15/House-Passes-Upton-Fix-for-ObamaCare

39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'


by Mike Flynn 15 Nov 2013, 10:36 AM PDT

On Friday, the House of Representatives approved legislation sponsored by Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI) that would allow insurers to continue to offer policies on the individual market. The vote was  261-157. Thirty-nine Democrats voted for the Upton Amendment, which is an indication the Democrat united front on Obamacare is cracking.

ObamaCare largely eliminates the individual market and forces those policy holders into the health exchanges. On Thursday, Obama proposed extending the individual market for one year. The Upton bill would not only let existing policies continue, but insurers could sell individual policies to new customers. The White House has vowed to veto Upton's bill if it reaches the President's desk.

Since the launch of the ObamaCare website, millions of Americans have received notices that their policies were being cancelled. ObamaCare passed largely on the reassurances that "if you like your policy, you can keep it." The policy cancellations show that claim to be false.

In reality, ObamaCare wouldn't work if that claim were true. Because of the increase in benefits and the requirement to underwrite insurance for sick people, the exchanges need millions of relatively healthy workers to subsidize these higher costs. Forcing Americans with individual policies into the exchanges is the only way for ObamaCare to be viable.

The Upton bill now goes to the Senate. Sen. Mary Landrieu is sponsoring legislation that is similar to Rep. Upton's, except that it would require insurance companies to continue offering the individual plans. Upton's bill would allow them to offer the plans, but not require them to do so.

 
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 02:22:05 PM »
Six of the 39 Democrats were from California.

I still think this bill was a terrible idea, not the Democrats can point to the GOP and call Obamacare bipartisan.

BTW Upton is no conservative - he is one of the architects of curly light bulbs and the ban of incandescent bulbs.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 02:24:12 PM by Rapunzel »
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 02:23:54 PM »
Any Republicans jump the fence?
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 02:24:26 PM »
Any Republicans jump the fence?

Four Republicans voted against the bill: Georgia Rep. Paul Broun, Oklahoma Rep. Jim Bridenstine, Texas Rep. Ralph Hall, and Kentucky Rep. Thomas Massie.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 02:28:04 PM by Rapunzel »
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 02:25:45 PM »
You realize Harry Reid can now take this bill and insert the Landrieu bill in it's place.  The GOP created their own Trojan Horse today.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Bigun

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 02:25:50 PM »
Six of the 39 Democrats were from California.

I still think this bill was a terrible idea, not the Democrats can point to the GOP and call Obamacare bipartisan.

BTW Upton is no conservative - he is one of the architects of curly light bulbs and the ban of incandescent bulbs.

Agree on all counts!

“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 02:28:57 PM »
You realize Harry Reid can now take this bill and insert the Landrieu bill in it's place.  The GOP created their own Trojan Horse today.

Yes, that is my fear.  Should have left it alone.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline olde north church

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 02:29:15 PM »
You realize Harry Reid can now take this bill and insert the Landrieu bill in it's place.  The GOP created their own Trojan Horse today.

Maybe not if there's more than a bit of sunlight between the two.  I think people may be able to tell the difference.  The talking heads will have to differentiate between the two.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Bigun

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 02:32:09 PM »
Yes, that is my fear.  Should have left it alone.

I agree with the "should have left it alone" but if my understanding of the  Landrieu bill is correct (I know very little in the way of details) it would do even more damage to O care than this would!
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 02:34:25 PM »
I agree with the "should have left it alone" but if my understanding of the  Landrieu bill is correct (I know very little in the way of details) it would do even more damage to O care than this would!

Her bill is a mandate to the insurance companies- general consensus it likely not even legal since the state insurance commissioners make the decision in each state - not the Feds (of course with this court that is a moot point) and the Upton is voluntary.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Bigun

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 02:37:04 PM »
Her bill is a mandate to the insurance companies- general consensus it likely not even legal since the state insurance commissioners make the decision in each state - not the Feds (of course with this court that is a moot point) and the Upton is voluntary.

Yes! And thus her bill would be very much more damaging to the overall long term health of O care!
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline Bigun

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 02:44:41 PM »
And BTW! It was against the law (HIPPA) for insurance carriers to cancel health insurance plans long before ACA came into the picture!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act#Title_I:_Health_Care_Access.2C_Portability.2C_and_Renewability
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 02:46:22 PM »
And BTW! It was against the law (HIPPA) for insurance carriers to cancel health insurance plans long before ACA came into the picture!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act#Title_I:_Health_Care_Access.2C_Portability.2C_and_Renewability


Yep... amazing how everyone has ignored this......
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Bigun

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 02:56:25 PM »
Yep... amazing how everyone has ignored this......

I have not read and do not intend to read the ACA but I seriously doubt the quickly cobbled together mess contains one word that would repeal already existing law so I strongly suspect we now we have untold number of conflicts in law. Which law will be applicable in this case?  Which in that one?  Etc Etc

I do know this! If I were a cancer patient, or suffered from any other life threatening condition, and got one of those cancellation notices my shirt tail wouldn't hit my hind end until I was in federal court over it!
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 02:56:42 PM »
And BTW! It was against the law (HIPPA) for insurance carriers to cancel health insurance plans long before ACA came into the picture!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Insurance_Portability_and_Accountability_Act#Title_I:_Health_Care_Access.2C_Portability.2C_and_Renewability


I suspect - but do not know - that the ACA has a provision buried on page 17,308 that supersedes HIPAA and allows cancellations. 
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline flowers

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 03:17:06 PM »
House Passes Upton’s ‘If You Like It’ Obamacare Fix

http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/house-passes-uptons-if-you-like-it-fix/

Quote
The House easily passed Republican legislation on Friday allowing insurers to keep offering old insurance plans for another year in response to President Barack Obama’s broken “if you like it, you can keep it” promise.

The bill passed 261-157 with all but four Republicans joined by 39 Democrats backing the bill sponsored by Energy and Commerce Chairman Fred Upton, R-Mich. Those Democrats defected despite strong opposition from their party leadership and President Barack Obama, who, hours after the White House announced an administrative fix Thursday, vowed he would veto the Upton bill.

Democratic leaders feared throughout the week that the Upton bill would create a rift in party unity and give ammunition to Republicans to tout that both parties have lost confidence in the Obama administration.


Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 04:19:01 PM »
Never thought I would see the day when I would completely disagree with Rapunzel AND BigUn, but there it is.

The value of Upton's bill is in the thread title:
Quote
39 Democrats Break With Obama
. The Democrats are being forced to either break with Obama (
Quote
an indication the Democrat united front on Obamacare is cracking
or tell the American people they will not allow them choice in coverage. ObamaCare or the highway, peasants. The TV ads practically write themselves.

As to this: You realize Harry Reid can now take this bill and insert the Landrieu bill in it's place And? Then they go to conference and the Republicans toss Landrieu out the door. Besides according to another thread the Senate won't even bring Upton to vote. Make that the Democrats under Reid won't. Another ad writes itself. Moreover, Obama has already announced he will veto Upton. Excellent, your Highness. You have just written a third ad.

You need not fear Upton. It represents a public relations bonanza.

Oh, and Rapunzel and BigUn, sadly, the honeymoon is over.  8888crybaby
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline Bigun

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2013, 05:18:12 PM »
Never thought I would see the day when I would completely disagree with Rapunzel AND BigUn, but there it is.

The value of Upton's bill is in the thread title: . The Democrats are being forced to either break with Obama ( or tell the American people they will not allow them choice in coverage. ObamaCare or the highway, peasants. The TV ads practically write themselves.

As to this: You realize Harry Reid can now take this bill and insert the Landrieu bill in it's place And? Then they go to conference and the Republicans toss Landrieu out the door. Besides according to another thread the Senate won't even bring Upton to vote. Make that the Democrats under Reid won't. Another ad writes itself. Moreover, Obama has already announced he will veto Upton. Excellent, your Highness. You have just written a third ad.

You need not fear Upton. It represents a public relations bonanza.

Oh, and Rapunzel and BigUn, sadly, the honeymoon is over.  8888crybaby

 :hard crying:
“It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.” —Voltaire

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2013, 06:04:04 PM »
Arizona - Ron Barber

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Arizona - Kyrsten Sinema

Texas - Filemon Vela

Minnesota - Tim Walz
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2013, 06:07:31 PM »
 :silly: :silly:Jim Matheson from Utah is scared to death to vote with Pelosi since Mia Love is running against him again.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 06:08:45 PM by Rapunzel »
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline R4 TrumPence

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2013, 01:56:19 AM »
:silly: :silly:Jim Matheson from Utah is scared to death to vote with Pelosi since Mia Love is running against him again.

Oh good! I love her!


I am Repub4Bush on FR '02

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: 39 Democrats Break With Obama to Pass Upton 'Fix'
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2013, 03:08:52 AM »
The value of Upton's bill is in the thread title: . The Democrats are being forced to either break with Obama ( or tell the American people they will not allow them choice in coverage. ObamaCare or the highway, peasants. The TV ads practically write themselves.

As to this: You realize Harry Reid can now take this bill and insert the Landrieu bill in it's place And? Then they go to conference and the Republicans toss Landrieu out the door. Besides according to another thread the Senate won't even bring Upton to vote. Make that the Democrats under Reid won't. Another ad writes itself. Moreover, Obama has already announced he will veto Upton. Excellent, your Highness. You have just written a third ad.

You need not fear Upton. It represents a public relations bonanza.

I couldn't agree more with your spot on assessment of the situation.

A frog trapped in a well does not understand the sea.


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