Ted Cruz on ABC Sunday show - October 20thhttp://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/week-transcript-rep-nancy-pelosi-sen-ted-cruz/story?id=20612657
snip to go to the interview with Cruz (after Pelosi)
And now to the GOP. There has been a lot of talk about the rift between the Republican Party that the shutdown has exposed.
"The New York Times" this morning calling it a civil war, and Jon Karl is back with us.
Jon, you explored that civil war with two Republicans this week.
KARL: That's right, Martha. I talked to two high profile Republicans, both are potential presidential candidates, both are, no doubt about it, conservatives. But as you'll see, they represent opposite sides of this battle for the future of the Republican Party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: The deal was a terrible deal. The Washington establishment sold the American people down the river. It provided no relief for the millions of people who are hurting because of ObamaCare, but it is worth also focusing on what did happen because a lot, I think, was accomplished in the last couple of months.
Number one, the public debate over the harms that ObamaCare is inflicting, it elevated the public debate. And that is critically important.
KARL: People hated this shutdown, they hated this impasse and this was seen as the Ted Cruz shutdown. You more than any single individual were seen as the one that triggered this crisis to begin with.
CRUZ: Jon, I agree that a lot of D.C. politicians tried to call it that and a lot of the media did, too. But --
KARL: We're talking about public opinion nationally.
CRUZ: But look, I -- I -- let me be very clear. I said throughout this, we shouldn't have a shutdown. I don't want a shutdown. I repeatedly voted to open the government.
KARL: But there never would have been a shutdown if you hadn't gone with the strategy of saying we're not even going to fund the government for six weeks --
CRUZ: And you know what?
KARL: -- unless we can defund ObamaCare.
CRUZ: -- you know what, John, there never would have been a shutdown if Harry Reid and President Obama hadn't said we will not compromise, we will not negotiate, shut the government down.
KARL: How much do your colleagues just despise you right now on the floor? I mean, I hear some really strong language from your own fellow Republican senators.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZ.: I think it's obvious that we are now seeing the end of this agonizing odyssey. It's one of the more shameful chapters that I have seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: Listen --
KARL: You made -- you made some enemies in this battle.
CRUZ: There is an old saying that politics, it ain't beanbag. And you know, I'm not serving in office because I desperately needed 99 new friends in the U.S. Senate. Given the choice between being reviled in Washington, D.C., and appreciated in Texas, or reviled in Texas and appreciated in Washington, I would take the former 100 out of 100 times.
KARL: You did a radio interview where you compared Senate Republicans to an Air Force going over and bombing their own troops, bombing conservatives, bombing House conservatives.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CRUZ: And when you have got half the Senate Republican caucus firing their cannons at the House Republicans, it sabotages the effort.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CRUZ: The reason this deal, the lousy deal was reached is because, unfortunately, Senate Republicans made the choice not to support House Republicans.
KARL: You're saying more than that, though. You're saying not only did they not support House conservatives, that they attacked House conservatives as Republicans.
CRUZ: Well, and I think that was unfortunate. I think it was unfortunate that you saw multiple members of the Senate Republicans going on television, attacking House conservatives, attacking the efforts to defund ObamaCare, saying it cannot win. It's a fool's errand and we will lose, this must -- this must fail.
That is a recipe for losing the fight and it's a shame. We didn't win this battle, but I am encouraged that we have demonstrated when the American people stand up, the House of Representatives will listen and I hope in time the Senate will listen also.
KARL: What next? We have another deadline, government funding runs out on January 15th.
Will you rule out pushing to the brink of another shutdown by saying you would block funding for the government unless ObamaCare is defunded?
Will you do that again?
CRUZ: I would do anything and I will continue to do anything I can to stop the train wreck that is ObamaCare.
What I intend to do is continue standing with the American people to work to stop ObamaCare, because it isn't working. It's costing people's jobs and it's taking away their health care.
KARL (voice-over): But Cruz continues to be under fire from members of his own party, including former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who told us the tactics that Cruz championed caused Republicans to lose ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: I just want to ask you, this shutdown is over. We're back from the brink. No default.
Was there anything gained in all of this?
BUSH: No. I think there was some ground lost from the political point of view.
KARL: And this started with Republicans, mostly in the House, saying that they wanted to gut ObamaCare and they were willing to not fund the government until that happened. I mean, they changed their position a little bit as it went along.
But I mean, how badly are Republicans hurt by all this? It started with their strategy.
BUSH: Tactically it was a mistake to focus on something that couldn't be achieved. That's what that was, it was tactics. In fact, I would argue that allowing ObamaCare to be implemented, two things would happen.
One, it would be so dysfunctional if it was implemented faithfully that it would be clear for more people. Or it would -- it couldn't be implemented because the government is not capable of doing it.
It looks like that, the latter rather than the former, may be happening, but that was all crowded out by a miscalculation of using something that shouldn't be used, the debt ceiling limit and the continuation of the budget.
KARL: What do you think when you see these guys, your own party coming out and saying the debt ceiling, we don't necessarily need to raise that? I mean...
BUSH: Well, you have to pay your obligations. The -- I do a lot of traveling overseas and when we have these spikes of political conversations that are not grounded in reality, the rest of the world looks at us as untrustworthy. That has implications not just for us, slowdown of economic activity, it has implications in the world because people have to count on the United States.
And if we're behaving this way, it makes it harder to do so.
So now look, I'm not -- I want to make sure everybody understands, I'm not blaming Republicans. I think we have a systemic problem in Washington right now and the void of leadership is making it harder to get to a better place.
The better place would be that, with civility, have a dialogue about the bigger, more pressing issues and try to find common ground rather than use each instance of a -- you know, a possible crisis to win a political point. We need to start solving problems and I think the president does not deserve credit in this either.
KARL: But I just spoke to Ted Cruz and he was the guy who said, hey, let's not agree to a funding resolution unless ObamaCare is defunded. That was the strategy that really kicked it off and he told me that he will now do anything he can to stop ObamaCare and he does not rule out pushing to the brink once again.
What would your message be to Ted Cruz?
BUSH: Well, frankly, I think the best way to repeal ObamaCare is to have an alternative. We never hear the alternative. We could do this in a much lower cost with improved quality based on our principles, free market principles, and two, show how ObamaCare, flawed to its core, doesn't work.
So have a little bit of self-restraint. It might actually be a politically better approach to see the massive dysfunction. But we don't even hear about that because we've stepped on that message. And I think Republicans need to just take a step back and allow -- show a little self-restraint and let this happen a little more organically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RADDATZ: Our thanks to Jon Karl and we'll have much more with Jon and Governor Bush a bit later.
Coming up our powerhouse roundtable, ready to weigh in on those interviews and break down a stunning week in politics.
Plus we hit the road, checking in with Tea Party supporters in Ohio for their take.
And check out the PandaCam. With the government back open, the National Zoo's live look at its most popular resident is back online.
And we're back after this.
RADDATZ: Up next the roundtable's take on the shutdown and the new deadlines looming.
Plus much more from Jeb Bush. What's his take on 2016? That's coming up.
RADDATZ: Check out the support Tea Party star Ted Cruz is getting this week. We need more Republicans like Ted Cruz, that message spelled out by one of his constituents with styrofoam cups.
Well, polls shows most Americans blame Republicans more than the president for the shutdown, there is still significant support for Cruz's strategy.
The roundtable weighs in shortly but first we sent Byron Pitts to Lulu's Diner in Ohio to talk to a group of Tea Party supporters, an engineer, nurse, small business owner, retiree and car dealer to find out why they view the shutdown as a success.
BYRON PITTS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Show of hands, did you support the shutdown?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
PITTS: You all agree that the shutdown was a good idea for the country. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spending has got to stop.
KIM MEYER, TEA PARTY SUPPORTER: This is something that will hopefully help people to see that there is something that needs to be done.
JUSTIN BINIK-THOMAS, TEA PARTY SUPPORTER: Let's try to sum that up with personal responsibility. When that comes to your personal budgets you make sure that what you make covers your bills.
PITTS: What about the price tag that goes with it. Some of these numbers, $24 billion economic impact, 800,000 federal workers furloughed. We all saw the images on TV of veterans denied access. So, the country was inconvenienced, yes?
TOM AHL, TEA PARTY SUPPORTER: Why did the government officials blocked those walk around monuments, that was outlandish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it was unnecessary.
PITTS: So, you would agree that there was an impact in the nation for the shutdown. But you think it was worth it?
H.R. PENCE, TEA PARTY SUPPORTER: I think it was being portrayed as greater than it actually was.
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: Do they really think these little barricades can keep us out?
PITTS: What would be your message to Ted Cruz?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ted Cruz is my hero because he stood up for the American public, because I see what Obamacare is going to do and what it's going to do to this country.
PITTS: He's been wildly criticized as you know around the country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I honestly feel that the grassroots of America is behind him. I feel it strongly.
OBAMA: Once this agreement arrives on my desk, I will sign it immediately.
PITTS: What's your message to President Obama.
BOB THOMPSON, TEA PARTY SUPPORTER: I like President Obama. As a person, he seems like -- I would love to go play 18 holes of golf with him, I really would. I think that would be a lot of fun. But I think that, you know, he's on the other side of the equation as far as the battle of the ideas.
PITTS: So, it sounds like you all are still in the fighting mood?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think some of the members have become more passionate.
PITTS: Is it possible, Tom, for you to be more passionate than you are right now -- than you seem to be right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PITTS: Why is that though?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I love America. I do. Greatest land in the world.
PITTS: And you don't feel good about where we are right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. So frustrated.
THOMPSON: I mean, we're having this conversation. You're sitting here in Lulu's in Ohio. We're having this conversation. That's a plus.
PITTS: So, did the shutdown accomplish anything?
THOMPSON: Sure it did. This conversation is ongoing.