Author Topic: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap  (Read 1159 times)

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Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« on: November 13, 2013, 01:07:23 PM »
http://www.redstate.com/2013/11/13/its-a-trap/

Republicans are walking into a trap and they don’t even realize it.

They are about to consider, in the House of Representatives, legislation by Congressman Upton that would allow people to keep their insurance plans.

There’s a problem though. It is widely acknowledged that Congressman Upton’s legislation is more messaging than substance. His legislation does not have anything in it that can force insurance companies, in the topsy-turvy world of Obamacare, to keep insurance plans going.

But there is a plan than does. Senator Mary Landrieu has written legislation in the United States Senate that the Democrats love. It mandates insurance companies have to keep people on their present insurance. The GOP is supposedly against mandates and against government forcing private businesses and individuals into contracts they don’t want.

Here’s what is going to happen.

The House, with the help of a good number of Democrats, will pass the Upton plan and send it to the Senate. Harry Reid will substitute the Landrieu plan and send it back to the House. The House will be forced to either vote for the Landrieu plan or be characterized as siding with insurance companies against people.

In one fell swoop, the Democrats will have the GOP on record saving Mary Landrieu’s re-election in Louisiana by casting her as the one who saved Americans’ health care plans, and also getting on record as really being in favor of fixing Obamacare with the use of mandates.

The GOP is walking right into the trap.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 02:09:47 PM »
Head's up:  Rush is going to be discussing this in the 3rd hour.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 02:36:30 PM »
Erickson's wrong (he's wrong a lot, lately).

First, Landrieu won't be saved by her bill. She voted for Obamacare in the first place.

Second, the Dems are walking into a trap by favoring the return of "current"plans.  These plans don't include current mandated coverage, which undermines Obamacare directives.  The only people on the exchanges will be the very sick, which will make premiums skyrocket.  Even fewer young people will sign up, and Obamacare enters a fatal death spiral.

Keeping the old plans kills Obamacare.
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Offline Relic

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 02:51:23 PM »
I don't know if this is a trap or not. I do know that I, like a lot of other people, am very weary of the constant political gamesmanship. There isn't a darn thing that could happen that the two parties wouldn't politicize and then make a mess out of the situation. No solutions, ever.

The Democrats, the media, (redundant, I know), many GOPe types, and a big chunk of the public want single payer. It's coming, I'd bet money on it. Why not quit dancing and get to it? If we're going to face that firing squad, why not get it over with, instead of making us run an obstacle course before being tied to the post.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 02:56:36 PM »
On Special Report this week the panel with Krauthammer and company said the Landrieu plan is actually not legal since we have "states rights" to consider.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Relic

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 03:00:03 PM »
On Special Report this week the panel with Krauthammer and company said the Landrieu plan is actually not legal since we have "states rights" to consider.

Legal schmegal, the 546, (100 Senate, 435 House, 2 Executive, 9 Judiciary), don't worry about laws anymore. That's so pre Obama.

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 03:01:55 PM »
What we are seeing is a rarity of rarities - a President and a Party painted into a corner with no one but themselves to blame it on.  They will be at their most dangerous.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Online mystery-ak

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 03:22:27 PM »
Rush talked about this...most of the plans that were cancelled no longer exist....who is gonna make the insurance companies re-write these old policies?....Obama?

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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 03:26:36 PM »
Rush talked about this...most of the plans that were cancelled no longer exist....who is gonna make the insurance companies re-write these old policies?....Obama?

That's just it...   (and BTW the crux of the case making it's way to SCOTUS right now re the photographer in NM who refused to photograph the gay wedding) - can the government force you to sell something you don't want to sell.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Millee

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 03:30:06 PM »
Erickson's wrong (he's wrong a lot, lately).

First, Landrieu won't be saved by her bill. She voted for Obamacare in the first place.

Second, the Dems are walking into a trap by favoring the return of "current"plans.  These plans don't include current mandated coverage, which undermines Obamacare directives.  The only people on the exchanges will be the very sick, which will make premiums skyrocket.  Even fewer young people will sign up, and Obamacare enters a fatal death spiral.

Keeping the old plans kills Obamacare.


Carney says no to keeping the old plans. 

http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=69016&sitesection=dailycaller&VID=25350226

Online jmyrlefuller

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 03:42:49 PM »
I can't recall a time in recent memory where Erick Erickson was right about anything.
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Online Bigun

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 03:51:32 PM »
Rush talked about this...most of the plans that were cancelled no longer exist....who is gonna make the insurance companies re-write these old policies?....Obama?

Oh the problem is one heck of a lot more involved than that! Let's say that you have had a health insurance policy with XYZ company for 25 years until Obamacare caused it to be cancelled. In the time you had the policy you developed a couple of conditions that you didn't have when you first signed up. Now that you don't have any insurance those conditions become what we call preexisting conditions. Are we going to mandate that private insurance carriers have to sell new policies to people with preexisting conditions for the same price as they were previously paying!

Obamacare is unfixable! It is a giant tar baby and anyone who has or does touch it is stuck!
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Offline massadvj

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 03:52:34 PM »
These "You Can Keep Your Old Plan" laws are all window dressing.  Like most legislation, they lack real substance but give politicians a "sound bite"  tosay they voted for something to fix a problem.

Unfortunately, for the dirty dozen Dem senators who voted for OPapaCare, nothing is going to save them from the wrath of the voters.  OPapaCare was one of the few substantive laws passed in the past 5 years, and it is an utter disaster.

No window dressing, sound bite legislation is going to allow any senator to run from his or her record as the last, crucial deciding vote to pass OPapaCare.
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Online Bigun

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 03:54:36 PM »
These "You Can Keep Your Old Plan" laws are all window dressing.  Like most legislation, they lack real substance but give politicians a "sound bite"  tosay they voted for something to fix a problem.

Unfortunately, for the dirty dozen Dem senators who voted for OPapaCare, nothing is going to save them from the wrath of the voters.  OPapaCare was one of the few substantive laws passed in the past 5 years, and it is an utter disaster.

No window dressing, sound bite legislation is going to allow any senator to run from his or her record as the last, crucial deciding vote to pass OPapaCare.

Worth repeating! So I did!

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Offline olde north church

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 03:57:03 PM »
These "You Can Keep Your Old Plan" laws are all window dressing.  Like most legislation, they lack real substance but give politicians a "sound bite"  tosay they voted for something to fix a problem.

Unfortunately, for the dirty dozen Dem senators who voted for OPapaCare, nothing is going to save them from the wrath of the voters.  OPapaCare was one of the few substantive laws passed in the past 5 years, and it is an utter disaster.

No window dressing, sound bite legislation is going to allow any senator to run from his or her record as the last, crucial deciding vote to pass OPapaCare.

Which is why the GOP should walk away like Mel Gibson in the "Payback" (?) promo, turn around and toss the Zippo over the shoulder. 
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2013, 04:07:44 PM »
Which is why the GOP should walk away like Mel Gibson in the "Payback" (?) promo, turn around and toss the Zippo over the shoulder.

Exactly!~

There is a woman on with Cavuto right now talking about her plan being cancelled and forced to purchase a substandard policy 2 x the former policy and is forced to pay for kids under 12 to have dental, glasses, etc., when she asked to take it off since she has no kids under 12 was told "mam we cannot do that because it is mandated for you to pay for it"  She said she told them then give me the number of the people on your plans with kids 12 and under so I can call them to help pay for my kids college education since now that I'm paying for their kids healthcare I can't afford the college tuition on top of it...
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2013, 04:26:06 PM »
Rush talked about this...most of the plans that were cancelled no longer exist....who is gonna make the insurance companies re-write these old policies?....Obama?

Uh....this is the USA...not the USSR.   At least not yet.

Free market capitalism will find dozens of 'new' companies offering policies identical to the ones that were canceled.
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Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 04:27:30 PM »
What about for pre-existing illnesses?  The new law mandates they cover those--that's going to put a big strain on them.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2013, 04:29:45 PM »
Uh....this is the USA...not the USSR.   At least not yet.

Free market capitalism will find dozens of 'new' companies offering policies identical to the ones that were canceled.

It isn't that easy.  Each state insurance commissioner has to approve any new carriers in each state and the policies they can write have to fit the state regulations - each state has their own unique regulations which is why - unlike auto insurance - they cannot write health insurance policies across state lines.  A lot of carrier pulled out of states because they actually made "deals" with Obama... California is a good example of this with companies like United Healthcare (which by the way is affiliated with AARP which I refuse to send one dime to)....
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 04:31:11 PM »
What about for pre-existing illnesses?  The new law mandates they cover those--that's going to put a big strain on them.

After all the talk about pre-existing I heard something on Greta the other night that there is actually loopholes written into the fine print about pre-existing and some people trying to sign up for O-Care are starting to find out it wasn't what they played it up to be.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline massadvj

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2013, 04:50:48 PM »
After all the talk about pre-existing I heard something on Greta the other night that there is actually loopholes written into the fine print about pre-existing and some people trying to sign up for O-Care are starting to find out it wasn't what they played it up to be.

As I understand it, while the insurers are not allowed to DENY coverage based on pre-existing conditions, they can TAILOR coverage based on pre-existing conditions.  This means they can limit your access to certain high cost health care providers based on your pre-existing conditions, increase the minimum deductible, and so forth.

In other words, the notion that everyone would be covered equally was largely a scam designed to get support for the law, while the insurance carriers who actually wrote the thing figured out ways to build in loopholes.

It's just another one of those great things we found out was in the law after they passed it.

To this day, congresspersons are claiming that the pre-existing conditions clause protects people from having to give personal medical information when they enroll.  That simply is not true.
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Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2013, 04:53:55 PM »
Carney says no to keeping the old plans. 

And? Does anyone believe anything Carney says anymore?
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 04:58:04 PM »
As I understand it, while the insurers are not allowed to DENY coverage based on pre-existing conditions, they can TAILOR coverage based on pre-existing conditions.  This means they can limit your access to certain high cost health care providers based on your pre-existing conditions, increase the minimum deductible, and so forth.

In other words, the notion that everyone would be covered equally was largely a scam designed to get support for the law, while the insurance carriers who actually wrote the thing figured out ways to build in loopholes.

It's just another one of those great things we found out was in the law after they passed it.

To this day, congresspersons are claiming that the pre-existing conditions clause protects people from having to give personal medical information when they enroll.  That simply is not true.

Thanks for explaining it, massadjv.  Yes, this is exactly how they explained it to Greta,
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline happyg

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2013, 05:35:41 PM »
Which is why the GOP should walk away like Mel Gibson in the "Payback" (?) promo, turn around and toss the Zippo over the shoulder.

Your darn right! The republicans voted against the bill, so why in the heck are they trying to mess with it? Leave it alone, and let the democrats drown in their own swamp!

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: The Republicans are Walking Into A Trap
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2013, 05:38:56 PM »
Your darn right! The republicans voted against the bill, so why in the heck are they trying to mess with it? Leave it alone, and let the democrats drown in their own swamp!

Exactly.  I am sick of the GOP trying to out sugar uncle sugar.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776


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