Author Topic: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing  (Read 969 times)

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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2013, 10:56:22 PM »
Why anyone but a brain-dead liberal (but I repeat myself) would give an agit-prop idiot like Thom Hartmann a moment's thought is beyond me.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 10:57:28 PM »
Why anyone but a brain-dead liberal (but I repeat myself) would give an agit-prop idiot like Thom Hartmann a moment's thought is beyond me.

It always helps to hear what the left is saying... you cannot make up the liberal logic that these exchanges are not working because of the Tea Party.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 10:58:01 PM by Rapunzel »

Offline EC

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Re: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 11:05:35 PM »
It always helps to hear what the left is saying... you cannot make up the liberal logic that these exchanges are not working because of the Tea Party.

 goopo

Sure, it's not always too good for the blood pressure! But yes - you can't counter the spin and the talking points if they come at you cold. Or not many can.
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Re: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 11:09:07 PM »
goopo

Sure, it's not always too good for the blood pressure! But yes - you can't counter the spin and the talking points if they come at you cold. Or not many can.

The best way to handle those attacks is to suppress the natural urge to immediately call out a response and to instead, stop, think about what was said - take it apart, dissect it, and first start questioning the definitions and implied premises in the statement.  The first line of response should then be an attack on the carefully coded definitions being used - such as using "fairness" to mean rank redistribution - and an attack on the implied premises, which can frequently be exploded by stating them and then applying them to other scenarios, scenarios in which their utter inanity becomes obvious.

Offline EC

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Re: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 11:17:18 PM »
The best way to handle those attacks is to suppress the natural urge to immediately call out a response and to instead, stop, think about what was said - take it apart, dissect it, and first start questioning the definitions and implied premises in the statement.  The first line of response should then be an attack on the carefully coded definitions being used - such as using "fairness" to mean rank redistribution - and an attack on the implied premises, which can frequently be exploded by stating them and then applying them to other scenarios, scenarios in which their utter inanity becomes obvious.

Totally agree! There is a problem with that though - it takes time. You know the proverbial: "A lie can be half way around the world before the truth has it's shoes on." To use your method - which works - you need the time to think and craft a response. Time to research, since very few of us carry supporting evidence in our heads. It is one of the Progressives strongest points in debate - the appeal to emotion, which requires less time and a functioning brainstem.
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Re: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 11:28:30 PM »
Totally agree! There is a problem with that though - it takes time. You know the proverbial: "A lie can be half way around the world before the truth has it's shoes on." To use your method - which works - you need the time to think and craft a response. Time to research, since very few of us carry supporting evidence in our heads. It is one of the Progressives strongest points in debate - the appeal to emotion, which requires less time and a functioning brainstem.

You don't need that much research, what you really need is the ability to resist the natural urge to yell out "that's not so" because you invariably end up allowing your opponent to set the definitions and terms of the discussion, which inevitably leads to your demise:  how can anyone be against "fairness" for example?  If a democrat/liberal/progressive starts going off on how some fascist policy should be enacted because so-and-so isn't paying their "fair" share, following that natural tendency forces you to start arguing against "fairness" - which is stupid - and you will have lost the argument before it even gets started.  Instead, one should first ask the speaker to unpack what he/she means by "fair" and by "fair share" and to push hard on the first few answers, which will be mealy-mouthed and evasive.  If you push hard enough - put the democrat/liberal/prog on the defensive - you will have taken the initiative and will eventually reach the point at which it becomes obvious that to a democrat/liberal/prog "fairness" means nothing of the sort; it means taking everything from those who have anything - regardless of whether they earned it or not - and parcelling it out on the basis of political cronyism to those who don't have, and who generally don't have because they haven't done anything to earn anything - they haven't even tried to get a job as a landscape gardener, something that most hardworking "immigrants" are more than willing to do.

One of the benefits of this approach is that it doesn't require you to take up the cudgel on the merits immediately, when you'll be on the defensive after having been rhetorically attacked by a democrat/lib/prog; instead, it allows you to expose the deceit that underlies much of the dem/lib/prog political agenda simply by teasing out the real meanings they ascribe to common terms, meanings that have little to do with the generally accepted meaning of those terms.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Liberally yours: The real reason why the Obamacare website is crashing
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2013, 01:00:33 AM »
The federal system should have anticipated the need to serve non exchange states. Period. Common sense.

From a systems development standpoint, it should have been built, tested, run in parallel alongside existing systems. Debugged, modified, all before going fully live.

I worked on such efforts in private industry; payroll, personnel, finance systems. Sometimes it didn't work as planned, and was scrapped entirely, postponed, etc.

IOW you don't go live until something so big really works.

Hardly anybody in this administration has private industry experience. The company who developed the system was not experienced, and was given a sole source, no bid, cost plus contract.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln


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