Author Topic: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?  (Read 4994 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cincinnatus

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,514
Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« on: November 03, 2013, 05:22:48 PM »
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 05:41:47 PM »
I'm re-watching the Kennedy mini-series on REELZ right now. 

and it is true the SS Agents did go out partying that night and were not in good shape to protect the president that day. 

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,095
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 06:12:41 PM »
All I know for sure is that Oswald didn't do it all by himself!

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 06:14:42 PM »
All I know for sure is that Oswald didn't do it all by himself!


I've never believed he did.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 06:26:40 PM »
No.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline olde north church

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,136
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 12:10:50 PM »
It was Miss Peacock in the conservatory with a revolver.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Chieftain

  • AMF, YOYO
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,633
  • Your what hurts??
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 12:47:14 PM »
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson

Offline AbaraXas

  • ?? ??????? ?????
  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,216
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 01:07:03 PM »
All I know for sure is that Oswald didn't do it all by himself!

I believe he could have. I've been in the depository and looked down at the X in the road and it isn't very difficult of a shot. I also have been able to pull off 3 shots in 6 seconds with my Mosin which is similar in power to the Carcano Oswald used except it has a much sticker bolt than the Carcano. The shot was only 88 yards. I could do a small group 88 yard shot with iron sights- Oswald had a 4 power scope.

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 01:14:29 PM »
I believe he could have. I've been in the depository and looked down at the X in the road and it isn't very difficult of a shot. I also have been able to pull off 3 shots in 6 seconds with my Mosin which is similar in power to the Carcano Oswald used except it has a much sticker bolt than the Carcano. The shot was only 88 yards. I could do a small group 88 yard shot with iron sights- Oswald had a 4 power scope.


If you watched the documentary last night it isn't the number of shots it is the angle of the shots. One shot clearly did come from Oswald and the trajectory proves it out 100%.  The problem is there is another shot that the angle could not have come from Oswald.  The tried to "claim" (actually Specter did in the Warren investigation) it hit the pavement and then jumped up and hit and killed Kennedy - this was the only way they could justify the angle that didn't work... problem is people in the car reported smelling gunpowder and there was no way they would have smelled gunpowder coming from the depository (wind, location, etc.)

Offline Chieftain

  • AMF, YOYO
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9,633
  • Your what hurts??
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 02:41:17 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTFVMMCwsss" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTFVMMCwsss</a>
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 02:42:02 PM by Chieftain »

Offline SouthTexas

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,667
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 02:54:40 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTFVMMCwsss" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTFVMMCwsss</a>


Great choice, very appropriate!!!

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,095
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 04:23:18 PM »

If you watched the documentary last night it isn't the number of shots it is the angle of the shots. One shot clearly did come from Oswald and the trajectory proves it out 100%.  The problem is there is another shot that the angle could not have come from Oswald.  The tried to "claim" (actually Specter did in the Warren investigation) it hit the pavement and then jumped up and hit and killed Kennedy - this was the only way they could justify the angle that didn't work... problem is people in the car reported smelling gunpowder and there was no way they would have smelled gunpowder coming from the depository (wind, location, etc.)

To many inconsistencies to cover here but one that WAS finally mentioned in these books is that one bullet goes through Kennedy, then Connally  breaks out a 4 inch section of rib, breaks a wrist, lodges fully in the governor's hip, and is eventually found, fully intact, on a hospital gurney. The next bullet, fired immediately afterwards and from the same lot of ammunition supposedly, explodes on impact.  Doesn't work that way! Never has and never will. Two different guns and two different missiles.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 04:25:40 PM by Bigun »

Offline olde north church

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,136
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 04:47:48 PM »
You see where Hollyweird Leftist and all round stooge Woody Harrelson was claiming his father was/wasn't the second shooter?
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Lando Lincoln

  • Member
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,928
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 05:11:08 PM »
This is simply and only my two cents.  It won't change the debate one iota.  But...

I am a shooter and I am at home when at the range.  I have hunted deer since I was 12 years old.  I load my own ammunition.  From that experience, I feel I know how to shoot.  I have never been in the military.

I have been in the book depository perhaps a half dozen times.  I have been on street level in Dallas more frequently than that.  The shots taken by Oswald were not difficult.  The motorcade was moving away at something like 20 mph and nearly in the direction of Oswald's line of sight giving the target a near stationary attitude.  I have seen and made far more difficult shots with successful follow-up shots - many times.

Also, keep in mind, a fired bullet in flight is a projectile heavily loaded with energy that relies on a gyroscopic spin to keep it stable during flight.  But, once it strikes something, it can take very bizarre and erratic paths.

So... it is my belief that Oswald was the lone gunman that day.  President Kennedy's death was the result of a tragic nexus of a crazy gunman and opportunity.
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,095
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 07:55:59 PM »
This is simply and only my two cents.  It won't change the debate one iota.  But...

I am a shooter and I am at home when at the range.  I have hunted deer since I was 12 years old.  I load my own ammunition.  From that experience, I feel I know how to shoot.  I have never been in the military.

I have been in the book depository perhaps a half dozen times.  I have been on street level in Dallas more frequently than that.  The shots taken by Oswald were not difficult.  The motorcade was moving away at something like 20 mph and nearly in the direction of Oswald's line of sight giving the target a near stationary attitude.  I have seen and made far more difficult shots with successful follow-up shots - many times.

Also, keep in mind, a fired bullet in flight is a projectile heavily loaded with energy that relies on a gyroscopic spin to keep it stable during flight.  But, once it strikes something, it can take very bizarre and erratic paths.

So... it is my belief that Oswald was the lone gunman that day.  President Kennedy's death was the result of a tragic nexus of a crazy gunman and opportunity.

Reasonable people can disagree and I suppose that will be the case here. I have been around firearms literally for my entire life and am a Vietnam vet who served there in 1965-66 with government employees who had been in Dallas that day. I have been to Dealy Plaza and the Texas Schoolbook Depository Building several times  I have read virtually everything that has been written about this including the complete Warren Commission Report (I still have a copy on my bookshelf and it is a complete and total whitewash IMHO).  I saw the Zapruder film the very first time it was ever on TV, an event  that got one Jerry Rivers, aka Geraldo Rivera,  banished from the national media for many years, and will tell you what you see when they show that now is NOT the same as what I saw that night.

The question is not whether or not Oswald COULD have made those shots but instead DID Oswald make those shots! I say he didn't.  In fact, I personally doubt that he even fired that piece of junk weapon at all that day. And I KNOW it was a piece of junk because I have owned a couple of them myself!.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 07:58:42 PM by Bigun »

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,384
  • Chief Dork
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2013, 08:17:15 PM »
Does it really matter at this point?

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,095
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2013, 08:20:34 PM »
Does it really matter at this point?

Yes! As a matter of fact it DOES matter! A lot!

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,384
  • Chief Dork
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2013, 08:22:40 PM »
Yes! As a matter of fact it DOES matter! A lot!


Why?

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,095
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2013, 08:26:46 PM »
It matters because what they did in this case opened the doors to all that has happened since and until we get to the bottom of it once and for all we will NEVER be a free people again!

At least that's how I see it.

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,384
  • Chief Dork
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2013, 08:29:01 PM »
It matters because what they did in this case opened the doors to all that has happened since and until we get to the bottom of it once and for all we will NEVER be a free people again!

At least that's how I see it.

Once again, reasonable minds will just have to disagree on that point.  E.g., the Kennedy assassination was insignificant to the election of Barack H. Obama.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,095
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 08:32:04 PM »

Offline AbaraXas

  • ?? ??????? ?????
  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,216
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2013, 08:34:06 PM »
The show is replaying on Reelz tonight. So far it is interesting.

Offline mystery-ak

  • Owner
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 257,376
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2013, 08:42:29 PM »
The show is replaying on Reelz tonight. So far it is interesting.

Watched last night..it was very convincing and even plausible...but I always fee that way every time I watch a show like that with a new theory...we will never know for sure what really happened and who was responsible...well maybe Arlen Specter did..lol

Support the USO

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,384
  • Chief Dork
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2013, 08:46:58 PM »


There are so many substantial areas of life where "the truth" is simply inaccessible; the Kennedy assassination is one of those: no one will ever know.  That being said, because there are so many such areas, the mere fact that we don't have "the truth" about the Kennedy assassination really doesn't mean much at all.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 25,095
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Did a hungover Secret Service agent accidentally shoot JFK?
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2013, 08:48:22 PM »
The show is replaying on Reelz tonight. So far it is interesting.

In my view this is just one more attempt by the people who did this to find something that the people WILL buy into and not a true account of what actually happened.

Just an unfortunate accident indeed!

« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 08:48:56 PM by Bigun »


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf