Author Topic: Der Spiegel: embassy espionage, the NSA's secret spy hub in Berlin  (Read 676 times)

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Offline rangerrebew

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« Last Edit: October 28, 2013, 04:11:11 PM by rangerrebew »
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin

Offline Oceander

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Re: Der Spiegel: embassy espionage, the NSA's secret spy hub in Berlin
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2013, 08:27:40 PM »
The "surprise" by the Germans, amongst others, is in part a little feigned; every country engages in a little surreptitious monitoring of other countries - even of their friends and even from their respective embassies.  That being said, the degree to which the NSA comprehensively surveilled our friends is astounding.  Mr. Snowden did a lot of damage to the US, but he didn't do it all by himself; the NSA made it possible.

This is also not a failing solely of Obama and the democrats, although it certainly exposes their radical hypocrisy for all to see:  allowing this sort of comprehensive spying to continue unhindered is flatly inconsistent with Obama's hollow claims that he would restore America's place in the world.  No, this was - and is - a bipartisan disaster; the Bush administration was necessarily involved in running these operations, and perhaps even in setting them up.  Although no link has been brought to light (yet), it strikes me that this is just one more consequence of the radical, and radically wrong, reaction to 9/11.  When the United States spends as much spying on its friends as it does on potential terrorists, then the terrorists have won.

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Der Spiegel: embassy espionage, the NSA's secret spy hub in Berlin
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2013, 09:37:44 PM »
[[ Mr. Snowden did a lot of damage to the US, but he didn't do it all by himself; the NSA made it possible. ]]

Snowden did no "damage". Not to the "United States" that I was brought up to respect.

All he did was pull back the curtains, and let the sun shine in.

And now the insects of the night are scurrying for cover...

Offline rangerrebew

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Re: Der Spiegel: embassy espionage, the NSA's secret spy hub in Berlin
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 08:22:32 AM »
The "surprise" by the Germans, amongst others, is in part a little feigned; every country engages in a little surreptitious monitoring of other countries - even of their friends and even from their respective embassies.  That being said, the degree to which the NSA comprehensively surveilled our friends is astounding.  Mr. Snowden did a lot of damage to the US, but he didn't do it all by himself; the NSA made it possible.

This is also not a failing solely of Obama and the democrats, although it certainly exposes their radical hypocrisy for all to see:  allowing this sort of comprehensive spying to continue unhindered is flatly inconsistent with Obama's hollow claims that he would restore America's place in the world.  No, this was - and is - a bipartisan disaster; the Bush administration was necessarily involved in running these operations, and perhaps even in setting them up.  Although no link has been brought to light (yet), it strikes me that this is just one more consequence of the radical, and radically wrong, reaction to 9/11.  When the United States spends as much spying on its friends as it does on potential terrorists, then the terrorists have won.

I agree with you in theory but in practice (sorry, I couldn't resist it) there is more to it.  The members of congress, with few exceptions, are as deeply to blame as either president.  Despite the bluster about differences it is a movie like Diane and John, and Nancy and Lindsey, all in bed together. :thumbsdown:
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim tribute to patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness -- these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. . . . reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles."
George Washington

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."
Benjamin Franklin


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