Doctors, hospitals demanding patients pay entire deductible up front thanks to Obamacare

[rb224315]

That's fine, but what do you propose? Should we just let all of the poor people starve and die out from untreated medical conditions?

Any arrangement which does not depend on the use of force is an option.  Free people will figure it out.  They don't need 0bama to figure it out for them.

Seriously, you just don't get it, do you?  People on this planet can take care of themselves without you and others like you creating a program which depends on guns to keep it in place.  Don't you get that?

I could be wrong, but it sounds to be that you more or less believe that it isn't your problem, so you shouldn't have to care about it or deal with it.

Yes, you are wrong.  Since you asked, I'll tell you what I consider to be my problem and how I address it.  I take care of myself, my wife, and our children.  The day will likely come when I'll provide (to one degree or another) food, clothing, shelter, and medical care for my parents and my wife's parents.  I donate over 10% of my income to charity, no government force required.

This is what liberals don't get.  If you leave us alone to be self-reliant, we'll take care of it.  No, you won't get the credit or the political power, but we'll be better off for it.  It is the role of individuals to take care of each other.  It is not the role of government to centrally plan the care & feeding of the population.

[Liberal_Spy]

Sticking with the actual business for a second - We have a washer dryer. It is for upholstery and rarely gets used - possibly twice a week. We also have a shower. It is a legal requirement when working with dangerous chemicals, and some of the stuff we use will eat your skin off in under a minute, then keep going.

If they are not in use, the local homeless use them and know they can. Usually a few sandwiches in the office and a pot of soup on the go too. Of course, the funniest time was when our foreman got caustic all over her. She charged into the shower, stripping off en route, to find a homeless guy already in there. He asked if she was a bonus. Came out with the most impressive set of black eyes I have seen, ever.

You have my respect for doing what you can to help the less fortunate.

[Liberal_Spy]

This is what liberals don't get.  If you leave us alone to be self-reliant, we'll take care of it.  No, you won't get the credit or the political power, but we'll be better off for it.  It is the role of individuals to take care of each other.  It is not the role of government to centrally plan the care & feeding of the population.

So how is the poverty/health insurance issue going to work itself out? Do you believe that charity alone is/would be enough to handle these issues?

[EC]

Dang, rb! 10%? Total hat tip - that is a chunk of change from anyone's income.

[Millee]

So how is the poverty/health insurance issue going to work itself out? Do you believe that charity alone is/would be enough to handle these issues?

How has the "War on Poverty" worked out???  Everyone rich now?? 

[alicewonders]

How has the "War on Poverty" worked out???  Everyone rich now?? 

Exactly.  Handouts are only a band-aid and are for short term help.  The real aid is to foster an environment rich in opportunity, with plenty of encouragement for one to motivate himself to achieve on his own. 

Like the War on Drugs, I believe the War on Proverty is an abject failure too. 

[rb224315]

So how is the poverty/health insurance issue going to work itself out? Do you believe that charity alone is/would be enough to handle these issues?

I'm trying to be kind here, but you're making it tough.  Free individuals will work together to figure it out.   They will address poverty.  They will address health care.  They don't need bureaucrats to figure it out for them.  I'm sure charity and mutual aid societies would play a part, but I don't know what specific arrangements would be made by people.

Just because liberals don't give to or volunteer for charities, don't assume that nobody else does or will.

Here's an example of what would happen if health insurance disappeared tomorrow:  To address the medical needs of my family, I would visit and/or call doctors.  I would propose to them some arrangement for providing health care to myself and my family.  He might have a price list on his wall.  I might suggest that I pay a monthly fee for unlimited visits.  I don't know the exact details of the final agreement, but even though I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I'm  bright enough to figure out how to take care of myself and my family.  I don't need 0bama and Sebelius to figure it out for me.  I don't need them to use the government's guns to force some inefficient arrangement.

[aligncare]

What do you mean by free healthcare? Are you talking about the people that eventually give in and stumble into an ER to get emergency treatment for a condition that could have been handled way before it got that bad, and for a fraction of the cost? That's not actually free healthcare.

She's talking about Medicaid. The poor qualify for Medicaid, which is an existing federally and state-funded program for the poor.

[Liberal_Spy]

Exactly.  Handouts are only a band-aid and are for short term help.  The real aid is to foster an environment rich in opportunity, with plenty of encouragement for one to motivate himself to achieve on his own. 

Like the War on Drugs, I believe the War on Proverty is an abject failure too.

I'm glad you feel that way about the war on drugs at least. This is the kind of thing I think the left/right should be working together on. There are some glaring, obvious problems that many from the left and right can and do agree on. I doubt I'll convince any of you to see the healthcare/taxes thing the same way I do, but we can at least deal with the things we agree on.

[rb224315]

There are some glaring, obvious problems that many from the left and right can and do agree on.

Have you read "The Law" yet?  I'm telling you, it's good stuff.

[Liberal_Spy]

Have you read "The Law" yet?  I'm telling you, it's good stuff.

I haven't. I'm getting ready to go to the gym, but when I get back I will wiki it and legitimately look it over.

[Rapunzel]

As of today - we are paying FIVE TIMES more for welfare in the USA that we pay for education, transportation and NASA combined.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102313-676389-obama-spending-of-37-trillion-on-welfare-is-a-record.htm

[EC]

As of today - we are paying FIVE TIMES more for welfare in the USA that we pay for education, transportation and NASA combined.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/102313-676389-obama-spending-of-37-trillion-on-welfare-is-a-record.htm

Be fair, Rap. Transportation is crap ans NASA - not seeing them doing many launches right now. Must mean education is way over funded.