Author Topic: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies  (Read 12983 times)

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Liberal_Spy

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2013, 07:23:53 pm »
Seven rounds found at the scene.  Three in the body of the boy, FOUR IN OTHER PLACES!!

In other words, this "veteran" was firing wildly.  What possesses a cop of 24 years to be scared out of his mind because a kid is turning around with a gun and he decides to nearly unload his service weapon,  and the rookie doesn't fire a shot?

An eyewitness says the kid dropped with the first hit, but this hot dog kept firing at him on the ground.

Something is very wrong in law enforcement today.  Itchy trigger fingers are the order of the day, whether at human beings or dogs.

They are turning the police into a military. When you're in the military overseas every single person you bump into is a potential hostile, and you are expected to approach the situation as such. We are starting to see that in the states now.

Offline raml

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2013, 09:13:34 pm »
I first started to be wary of the police when they killed my best friends younger brother in his own home 30 yrs ago. Ypsilanti Mi Police went to his home after hearing about an alarm going off in his neighbor's home. They came to the his door at 2:00am and woke him and his wife. The wife went to the door and opened it since they were yelling police then her husband walked in the room their kitchen behind her. He was 6'6" but was in his underwear and a rookie cop pulled out his gun and shot him dead. It made the headlines all over the country the cop of course was fired and he did go to jail for manslaughter. It didn't bring her brother back and he died for no good reason and he left a wife and baby daughter. After that I am very careful around cops and really don't trust them even a few family members who are cops. I listen to them and they have a very corrupt way of looking at life maybe they have seen to much but in my book they need to have mental aptitude tests done every year and before being hired really checked out the rookie that killed in this instance if checked better would never have been able to be a cop.

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #77 on: October 25, 2013, 10:45:04 pm »
http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/DA9LF4C81

 AP 10/25/2013 10:35:33 PM
(AP) Timeline: Decision to shoot boy made in 10 seconds
By PAUL ELIAS
Associated Press
SAN FRANCISCO
Ten seconds.

That's how much time passed after a California sheriff's deputy reported a suspicious person to dispatch then called back to say shots had been fired.

The shots killed 13-year-old Andy Lopez on Tuesday afternoon in a blue-collar neighborhood in Santa Rosa. Police say Lopez was carrying a pellet gun that looked like an AK-47 assault rifle.

Now, community outrage is mounting and residents are demanding to know whether the shooting was justified.

More than 100 angry middle and high school students walked to City Hall on Friday, the Santa Rosa Press Democrat reported. Hundreds of people protested earlier in the week.

City police and the Sonoma County district attorney's office are investigating.

The dispatch timeline released by the Santa Rosa Police Department showed that two deputies in a squad car encountered the hoodie-wearing Lopez just after 3:14 p.m.

Witnesses say at least one of the deputies took cover behind an open front door of the cruiser, and one yelled twice "drop the gun."

Ten seconds after their initial report to dispatch, one of the officers called in "shot have been fired."

Sixteen seconds later, the deputies were calling for medical help. Cruz was later pronounced dead at the scene. The Sonoma County coroner said he found seven "apparent entry wounds," two of them fatal.

The deputies, who have not been identified, have been placed on paid administrative leave, which is standard after a shooting, officials said.

Assistant Sheriff Lorenzo Duenas told the Press Democrat that the deputy who shot the teen is a 24-year veteran and his partner, who did not fire his weapon, is a new hire.

Santa Rosa police Lt. Paul Henry told the newspaper the deputy who opened fire later told investigators he believed his life as well his partner's was in jeopardy. The deputy said the teen didn't comply with commands to drop the gun and was turning toward the deputies while raising the barrel.

"The deputy's mindset was that he was fearful that he was going to be shot," Henry said at a Wednesday news conference.

Geoffrey Alpert, a professor of criminology at the University of South Carolina, said officers are typically justified in the use of deadly force when they sincerely believe lives are at stake.

If the teen was raising the barrel of the gun toward officers, they had little choice about firing, Alpert said.

"If's it's a pink bubble gum gun and an obvious fake to most, then there is no reason to shoot," he said. "But if the gun looks real the barrel is being pointed at you ... it's unfortunate, but a perceived threat trumps age and the officers have to protect themselves."

Hundreds of community members marched Wednesday night to remember the teen and protest the shooting.

They covered more than three miles from Santa Rosa City Hall to the field where Andy Lopez was killed. Some lit candles and placed flowers at a makeshift memorial with printed pictures of the victim, stuffed animals and a balloon that read "RIP Andy L."
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Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #78 on: October 25, 2013, 10:53:32 pm »
Get off your high horse  :silly:

My high horse, is it? By calling for restraint, an end to the extravagant rhetoric that borders on hysteria (First it was OK to shoot your dogs. Now it is OK to shoot your kids), and requesting that those who claim to know what happened contact the appropriate authorities, I'm the one on a "high horse"? Naw, I don't think so.

And what about this?: Speaking of racism, I've read enough of your comments on Mexican immigration over the years to bias my opinion toward what I think is your real reason for protecting the white officers. Is it "high horse" to ask the author of that statement to offer proof or withdraw it and apologize? Again, I don't think so.

I am also beginning to wonder where the moderators are when it comes to that little piece of libel? Is it acceptable on this Forum to make such a venomous and unsubstantiated accusation like that and not even be mildly rebuked for having done so? That, too, strikes me as more than odd.
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Offline happyg

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #79 on: October 25, 2013, 11:11:58 pm »
Sorry about that, Cincinnatus. I don't know you well enough to know if that is true or not, and I doubt it is true, because I don't recall you ever saying anything racist or even about immigration. Carling should have apologized, or, in the least, backed up his statement. Since he couldn't do that, he was wrong. Period!

This one slipped by us, and I know the other mods would not like it, either. Since I am relatively new, I'll bring this up to the other mods. A lot of the attacks on you were uncalled for. You were civil; carling wasn't.

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #80 on: October 25, 2013, 11:21:19 pm »


I am also beginning to wonder where the moderators are when it comes to that little piece of libel? Is it acceptable on this Forum to make such a venomous and unsubstantiated accusation like that and not even be mildly rebuked for having done so? That, too, strikes me as more than odd.





Man up, sir!   Stop whining.
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Online mystery-ak

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2013, 11:21:28 pm »
Didn't see it Cincy....



Carling and other members..
Cincinnatus is not the same Cincinnatus that has posted on FR for years so please don't confuse FR's Cincinnatus past comments with our Cincy.

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #82 on: October 25, 2013, 11:33:11 pm »
Get off your high horse  :silly:

My high horse, is it? By calling for restraint, an end to the extravagant rhetoric that borders on hysteria (First it was OK to shoot your dogs. Now it is OK to shoot your kids), and requesting that those who claim to know what happened contact the appropriate authorities, I'm the one on a "high horse"? Naw, I don't think so.


I took you off ignore long enough to point out your hypocrisy.

Why aren't you calling for restraint from these renegade cops?

10 seconds.  That's all it took for a sweaty-palmed brute to decide he needed to drop a kid by unloading his service weapon on him. 

And his rookie partner never fired a shot.

Is that not curious?  Do you not even stop to think that there's something wrong with this picture?  A 24 year veteran is so wedgied up that he can't hold off for more than TEN EFFING SECONDS before slamming lead into a human being that was "turning around" (even the cops never said he pointed the weapon at them).

The "investigation" will take weeks or even months as the LEO and political hierarchy in Santa Rose hope and pray that memories of this manslaughter fade.  That's why these investigations into police shootings take so long:  they're counting on the outrage to dissipate so they can rule, a year from now, that the "seasoned veteran" was acting fully within the law.

Arm up, folks.  When seconds count, these "protectors of the people" are minutes away, or are fully out of service at a Dunkin Donuts.

"Calling the cops" can get you killed.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2013, 11:52:33 pm »
This thread will be locked if the personal comments don't stop.
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Online Fishrrman

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2013, 12:42:45 am »
Carling wrote:
[[ pic
If the kid was a certain minority, there would be a national outrage over this, marches by the Justice Brothers, and the President would have commented on it by now. ]]

Hmmm... that kid is a white/Hispanic.... right?

Cincinnatus wrote:
[[ If that police officer did anything wrong or unlawful in his actions he should be punished to the full extent of the law and I will be the first to call for it. However, the problem we have on here is that several posters have already convicted him due to sympathy for the victim and/or the fact the shooter is a police officer. Guilty! ]]

Hmm.. sounds like you are backtracking from your earlier postings on this subject -- as is at least one other poster who seemed strongly pro-police before more information started coming out.
There might be a few gonna be eatin' a healthy helpin' of crow.


xfreeper wrote:
[[ Something stinks here. That should be obvious to anyone yhat has their eyes open. ]]

sinkspur wrote:
[[ Something is very wrong in law enforcement today.  Itchy trigger fingers are the order of the day, whether at human beings or dogs. ]]

See reply #31. No, wait, I'll repost it:
==========
Shoot first.
Ask questions later.
After all, we're the cops.
We have THE RIGHT to do that.
If we make a mistake, well... sorry.
==========
I was fully expecting to be soundly attacked for posting that.
But these days, it's getting to be too close to the truth.
Especially if you're a dog...

Liberal Spy wrote:
[[ They are turning the police into a military. When you're in the military overseas every single person you bump into is a potential hostile, and you are expected to approach the situation as such. We are starting to see that in the states now. ]]

Exactly. The militarization of the police. Too often, they don't even LOOK LIKE "police" any more. They show up as troopers, with a police patch on. If it wasn't for that, you couldn't tell them apart from the army. Show up with armored vehicles, the works.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #85 on: October 26, 2013, 12:50:45 am »
If you have any oddballs in your family, you'd best keep them indoors.

Anyone who exhibits any kind of out-of-the-ordinary behavior that the blues don't like are at risk of being SWATTED.

Given the accuracy of their shooting, your house is likely to be full of holes.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Carling

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #86 on: October 26, 2013, 02:02:48 am »
. Carling should have apologized, or, in the least, backed up his statement. Since he couldn't do that, he was wrong. Period!

Perhaps you missed Cincinnatus' first ad hominem attacks in this thread.

Whatever.  I feel strongly that the cops needlessly killed this child.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 02:05:06 am by Carling »
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Offline Carling

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #87 on: October 26, 2013, 02:04:25 am »
Didn't see it Cincy....



Carling and other members..
Cincinnatus is not the same Cincinnatus that has posted on FR for years so please don't confuse FR's Cincinnatus past comments with our Cincy.

Ah, did not know that.  My apologies, Cincy v. 2.0!   :beer: 

I assumed I was debating the other Cincy, who is and was an insufferable radical.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #88 on: October 26, 2013, 02:20:37 am »
By the way, I, too, did not know our Cincinnatus was a different Cincinnatus from the Cincinnatus that haunted that other place. :shrug:

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #89 on: October 26, 2013, 07:31:23 pm »
Ah, did not know that.  My apologies, Cincy v. 2.0!

Acknowledged and accepted, Carling, as your comment was based on a misconception.

So now let us all calm down and move on to other things.
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Offline evadR

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #90 on: October 26, 2013, 07:55:29 pm »
"Calling the cops" can get you killed.


"The cops" will always be there in time to draw the chalk line around your body.

Second, anyone from the "sheriff's office" is likely to be inept and incompetent.

A tragic event for all involved.

 
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rangerrebew

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #91 on: October 27, 2013, 04:23:02 pm »
Its amazing that when I first saw the kid's picture, my sympathies swung to the cop.  Remember the pictures of Trayvon?  Mostly, they are good and can add to a discussion but they can have the opposite effect.  Just a thought.

Offline happyg

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2013, 04:38:26 pm »
Its amazing that when I first saw the kid's picture, my sympathies swung to the cop.  Remember the pictures of Trayvon?  Mostly, they are good and can add to a discussion but they can have the opposite effect.  Just a thought.

Few things are as they appear in the beginning. I'm inclined to wait for the entire story. For instance, think about all the men released from prison for rape and/or murder through DNA. All the evidence was stacked against them, but in the end, they were innocent.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2013, 04:47:38 pm »
Its amazing that when I first saw the kid's picture, my sympathies swung to the cop.  Remember the pictures of Trayvon?  Mostly, they are good and can add to a discussion but they can have the opposite effect.  Just a thought.

Not me.  When I saw the kid's picture, made me madder. 

This cop's actions are indefensible.  But they will be defended, and likely excused.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Oceander

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #94 on: October 27, 2013, 04:50:45 pm »
Not me.  When I saw the kid's picture, made me madder. 

This cop's actions are indefensible.  But they will be defended, and likely excused.

On that we can most definitely agree.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #95 on: October 27, 2013, 05:14:27 pm »
By the way, I, too, did not know our Cincinnatus was a different Cincinnatus from the Cincinnatus that haunted that other place. :shrug:

The poster - Cincy- that many of us know and love is known as Cincinatus on FR-one n in the middle, not 2.   This is the one who is also the husband of Cincinatus's Wife on FR.

Cincy has a terrific sense of humor so that makes him easy to spot!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 05:15:54 pm by Lipstick on a Hillary »

Offline Carling

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #96 on: October 28, 2013, 09:59:24 pm »
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/deputy-identified-shooting-santa-rosa-teen/nbbJ3/

Quote
Posted: 1:10 p.m. Monday, Oct. 28, 2013

Deputy identified in shooting of Santa Rosa teen

KTVU and Wires

SANTA ROSA, Calif. — The Sonoma County Sheriff's Office has identified the deputy who fatally shot 13-year-old Andy Lopez last Tuesday as 48-year-old Erick Gelhaus.

Gelhaus is a 24-year veteran of the sheriff's office who was assigned to the day shift patrol at the time of the shooting. He is also a field training officer and firearms instructor in policy and procedure, safety and the use of force, Assistant Sheriff Lorenzo Duenas said.
Gelhaus and another deputy were on patrol at about 3:15 p.m. Tuesday when they saw Lopez near Moorland and West Robles avenues, southwest of Santa Rosa.

Lopez was carrying an airsoft BB gun that looked like an authentic AK-47 assault rifle, as he walked down Moorland Avenue, according to the Santa Rosa Police Department, one of the agencies investigating the incident.

The deputies took cover behind the open doors of their patrol car and ordered Lopez to drop the rifle, Santa Rosa police said.

As Lopez turned around, the deputies said they saw the barrel of the rifle rise up, and Gelhaus opened fire, according to Santa Rosa police Lt. Paul Henry.

He fired eight shots at Lopez within 10 seconds, Henry said. Seven of the shots hit Lopez, who died at the scene.
A replica handgun made of plastic was found in his waistband, Henry said.

The deputy who did not fire his weapon is not being identified because he is a witness to the shooting. He has 11 years' experience with another Bay Area law enforcement agency, and had recently joined the sheriff's office and was training with Gelhaus at the time, Duenas said.
Duenas said the sheriff's office has received general and direct threats of "an eye-for-an-eye" nature since the shooting. Both deputies are on paid administrative leave.

Petaluma police and the Sonoma County District Attorney's Office are also investigating the shooting, and the FBI is conducting a separate, independent investigation.

There have been several protest marches in Santa Rosa since the shooting, as well as daily vigils and prayer sessions at a memorial at the shooting site. Another march is scheduled for Tuesday afternoon.

Several hundred people attended a wake for Lopez at a Windsor funeral home on Sunday.
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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #97 on: October 28, 2013, 11:37:14 pm »
Sooooooo......IOW, Trainer Erick Gelhaus told the deputy, "Here, hold my beer!"

This is EXACTLY what shouldn't be taught, IMO.
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Offline xfreeper

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2013, 01:14:18 am »
Totally unjustified use of lethal force and completely unecessary killing of someone who posed absolutely no threat. Can only hope the deputy gets what is coming to him. No question at all what would happen if a legally armed citizen did the same thing.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2013, 01:45:18 am »
Gelhaus lost his nerve.

A 24 year veteran should know better.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.