Author Topic: Canada Has Death Panels And that’s a good thing. (Liberals Now Cheer For What They Once Denied Existed)  (Read 6425 times)

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Offline olde north church

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I like the American healthcare system.  I liked it better when I had a traditional plan.  The kind where you go to the doctor, you pay the doctor and you get reimbursed or you submit to the insurance company.
HMOs became popular when baby boomers found out they are going to die and they weren't going to have any of that.  3 score and 10 sounds pretty good to me considering I came real close to shuffling loose the mortal coil at age 50.   
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 07:00:20 pm by olde north church »
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Rapunzel

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I like the American healthcare system.  I liked it better when I had a traditional plan.  The kind where you go to the doctor, you pay the doctor and you get reimbursed or you submit to the insurance company.
HMOs became popular when baby boomers found out they are going to die and they weren't going to have any of that.  3 score and 10 sounds pretty good to me considering I came real close to shuffling loose the mortal coil at age 50.

I am not and never have been a fan of HMO's.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline olde north church

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Oh, yeah, I also worked for a medical health insurance company and a hospital billing company.  Some people were stuck in pretty bad situations.  Other people take advantage of a good thing.
They should also stop putting medical news type stuff on talk shows.  Talk about hypochondria and power of suggestion!
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Olivia

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My sister relates to Sarah Palin when it comes to having a mentally handicapped child and the worry you have over their health care.
My nephew is chronologically almost eighteen but mentally, he's around seven or eight.
My sister worries about his future and how Obama care will handle his situation if he were to need some type of surgery.
I can see where an "advisory board" appointed by Obama would not consider him "worthy."
It's a real fear if you take into consideration what Obama has said in the past about his plan.
Truthfully, the most important thing in life is knowing what the most important things in life are, and prioritizing them accordingly.   Melchor Lim

Offline Rapunzel

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My sister relates to Sarah Palin when it comes to having a mentally handicapped child and the worry you have over their health care.
My nephew is chronologically almost eighteen but mentally, he's around seven or eight.
My sister worries about his future and how Obama care will handle his situation if he were to need some type of surgery.
I can see where an "advisory board" appointed by Obama would not consider him "worthy."
It's a real fear if you take into consideration what Obama has said in the past about his plan.

It is a legitimate worry, Olivia.  Look at the little girl who had the lung transplant a couple of months ago.  Our secretary of HHS had to sign off on the surgery and refused, the family had to sue to get the surgery for this child who was literally hours from deaths door... she went home from the hospital a few weeks ago.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Cincinnatus

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There are many other articles and info on the subject if you wouyld like to do your own research

Well, no, I wouldn't as I am not the one who made the claim Americans are not happy with their health care system. You did. Moreover the one article you did link talked mostly about the Canadian health system, not the American, which is what I asked about.

We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline xfreeper

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Come back to me after you read the last paragraph and tell me what you want.

There are many other articles and info on the subject if you wouyld like to do your own research

Well, no, I wouldn't as I am not the one who made the claim Americans are not happy with their health care system. You did. Moreover the one article you did link talked mostly about the Canadian health system, not the American, which is what I asked about.

Offline rb224315

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This thread has, so far, completely missed the point.  By comparing one version of socialism to another, better options are not considered. 

Claude Castonguay is regarded as the "father of Canadian healthcare".

From Investor's Business Daily: 
Quote
"Back in the 1960s, Castonguay chaired a Canadian government committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province of Quebec — then the largest and most affluent in the country — adopt government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax levies.

"The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: “the father of Quebec medicare.” Even this title seems modest; Castonguay’s work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast.

"Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in “crisis.”

“We thought we could resolve the system’s problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it,” says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: “We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice.”

Get that?  The guy whose brainchild is the Canadian system of government control over medicine says it's not working and that the private sector needs to be leveraged.

We need the same thing here.  The US government has been too involved in our healthcare.

My wife is from Canada but now lives in the US.  My mother in law (age 62 and living in Canada) needs a knee replacement.  As she left for a 3-5 month visit to the US, she was told that if she moved up to #1 on the list she'd remain there and get the surgery when she returned home.  When she got home she was told that she lost her place in the queue and would have to wait 2 more years.  They're still trying to push back on giving her the surgery because she's too young.  Yes, there's an expected failure or replacement time for the new knee, and the bureaucrats want to make her wait until the replacement window will be more likely to be longer than she is expected to live.

Meanwhile, she decided to lose a bunch of weight to prepare for the surgery.  The doc said it's not necessary but it's certainly a good idea.  So, she's lost over 90 pounds.  Losing that much weight has its own side effects, like excess skin that doesn't shrink as a person loses weight.  The only way to get rid of it is through surgery, but--get this--she's too old for that particular surgery.

I'm sure similar things aren't unheard of in the US, considering the involvement of the government and insurance companies.

Both the US and Canada need to reduce the involvement of third and fourth parties in the delivery of medical care.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Offline Rapunzel

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Finally!!!!     rb224315 nails it!  you get the gold star


I've worked in the healthcare business since 1992 and I've watched the steady destruction of our American healthcare system - not from bad doctors or lack of doctors but government intervention.  Unnecessary government intervention that went on steriods starting with Hillarycare.  Everyone thinks it failed - it did not fail she (and Newt) managed to get a lot of things changed and not for the better.  It's one reason most vaccines are now manufactured offshore -- the flu vaccine we were lacking the one year under Bush that was blamed on Bush by the media was actually a byproduct of Hillary.

And now as if Obamacare isn't back enough next year HHS is implementing - mandatory ICD-10.  now you go to the doctor with a laceration... he doesn't need to just look and say - yep you have a laceration and repair it -- nope thanks to ICD-10 and the governments voracious appetite for nonsensical data the doctor will now have to document no only the location and size of the laceration, whether is was a simple or complicated laceration and whether it affected tendons and a simple, intermediate of complex repair they will need to document what caused the laceration, where you received the laceration........ if you fell why did you fall, how did you fall... where were you when you fell.. - out walking?  Where were you walking, was it city, state of county property, oh you were in a park? City park, state park or a national park....

And people think doctors are over paid /s
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 07:49:40 pm by Rapunzel »
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Online mountaineer

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Quote
thanks to ICD-10 and the governments voracious appetite for nonsensical data the doctor will now have to document no only the location and size of the laceration, whether is was a simple or complicated laceration and whether it affected tendons and a simple, intermediate of complex repair they will need to document what caused the laceration, where you received the laceration........ if you fell why did you fall, how did you fall... where were you when you fell.. - out walking?  Where were you walking, was it city, state of county property, oh you were in a park? City park, state park or a national park....
... do you or does any member of your family own a gun ...
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Offline Rapunzel

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... do you or does any member of your family own a gun ...

Yep and if you answer yes they will inquire what kind of gun or guns...  TMI and nothing to do with the reason any of us see a doctor.  This is all for the government make-work-a-crats.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline musiclady

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I like the American healthcare system.  I liked it better when I had a traditional plan.  The kind where you go to the doctor, you pay the doctor and you get reimbursed or you submit to the insurance company.

THIS!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline aligncare

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And now as if Obamacare isn't back enough next year HHS is implementing - mandatory ICD-10.  now you go to the doctor with a laceration... he doesn't need to just look and say - yep you have a laceration and repair it -- nope thanks to ICD-10 and the governments voracious appetite for nonsensical data the doctor will now have to document no only the location and size of the laceration, whether is was a simple or complicated laceration and whether it affected tendons and a simple, intermediate of complex repair they will need to document what caused the laceration, where you received the laceration........ if you fell why did you fall, how did you fall... where were you when you fell.. - out walking?  Where were you walking, was it city, state of county property, oh you were in a park? City park, state park or a national park....

And people think doctors are over paid /s

Yes, Rap. That's the crux of my dissatisfaction with practice today. I easily get 5 to 10 emails from CMS every day regarding regulatory nonsense. And I can't understand a one of them. They're written in bureaucratease. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it!

Offline Rapunzel

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Yes, Rap. That's the crux of my dissatisfaction with practice today. I easily get 5 to 10 emails from CMS every day regarding regulatory nonsense. And I can't understand a one of them. They're written in bureaucratease. I hate it, I hate it, I hate it!

It's asinine.  ICD-10 is an excuse for more bureaucratic information gathering and has NOTHING to do with healthcare... nothing!!!!!!!!!!!
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline EC

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And now as if Obamacare isn't back enough next year HHS is implementing - mandatory ICD-10.  now you go to the doctor with a laceration... he doesn't need to just look and say - yep you have a laceration and repair it -- nope thanks to ICD-10 and the governments voracious appetite for nonsensical data the doctor will now have to document no only the location and size of the laceration, whether is was a simple or complicated laceration and whether it affected tendons and a simple, intermediate of complex repair they will need to document what caused the laceration, where you received the laceration........ if you fell why did you fall, how did you fall... where were you when you fell.. - out walking?  Where were you walking, was it city, state of county property, oh you were in a park? City park, state park or a national park....

And people think doctors are over paid /s

Sheesh - really? I go to a medic with a hole in me, I want it stitching up, pronto. That is it. My life history is way too boring to inflict on someone else. Hell, the last time my life flashed before my eyes, I fell asleep half way through.  :laugh:
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Offline rb224315

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Sheesh - really? I go to a medic with a hole in me, I want it stitching up, pronto. That is it. My life history is way too boring to inflict on someone else. Hell, the last time my life flashed before my eyes, I fell asleep half way through.  :laugh:

Same here.  I'm a strong candidate for the world's most boring human.  Patch me up, accept payment directly from me, and let me go, doc.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

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I've seen the Canadian system firsthand.  My father lived in Canada for the last 15 years of his life, and in that period had a heart bypass and quite a bit of other attention.  Waiting lines, shared accommodations (usually four to a room), unsanitary conditions in comparison to USA facilities, and deferred maintenance all over the place.  The only good thing about it is that Canadians themselves seem to be proud of it. 

I will say that while my father would have received better care in the USA, he would not have been able to afford it, so he may have been better off in Canada.  He'd have died heavily in debt in the USA (he was not yet old enough for Medicare).  Even so, he wouldn't have been able to afford Obamacare, either.



He would have died heavily in debt only if he had some anacronistic fear of bankruptcy.  Hospital debt can be discharged just as tax debt can be discharged.

Offline massadvj

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He would have died heavily in debt only if he had some anacronistic fear of bankruptcy.  Hospital debt can be discharged just as tax debt can be discharged.

That's true.  He wouldn't have much cared anyway.  My father was a con man and compulsive gambler.  He rarely paid his bills and felt no remorse about avoiding creditors (was proud of it in fact).  When a bill came to the house he'd open it, read it out loud.  "Look at this," he'd say.  "Final Notice."  Then he'd crumple it up.  "Thank God I'm never going to hear from those people again."

Those were the days when a con man could get away with things.  No computerized central databases.  No sooner had they repossessed his last Cadillac then he headed down to the Lincoln dealer to buy a new Continental.  Then he'd trade cars with someone from the card room running the same scam so the repo man couldn't figure out where the cars were.

I actually think he moved to Canada in his later years because he knew his heart was failing and he'd get free health care.  It probably bought him 10 years.