Author Topic: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition  (Read 1155 times)

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famousdayandyear

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http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10/tyrants-if-left-to-their-own-devices/

Tyrants if left to their own devices
Posted by William A. Jacobson    Friday, October 18, 2013 at 12:44pm

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You may have heard.

There’s a petition at MoveOn.org, promoted by Daily Kos, to have conservative members of the House arrested for sedition.

And the petition has tens of thousands of signatures, with real people feeling bold enough to put their real names on it.  Not just bold enough, but damn proud of it.

MoveOn Sedition

Daily Kos Sedition

Professor Reynolds has some good advice:

    THINK I’LL BUY ANOTHER GUN OR TWO:  MoveOn.Org petition demands GOP arrests for ‘conspiracy against US.’  Because these people are making plain how they think, and what they’d do if they had the power to.  Take it seriously, because they do.

That was one of the original reasons why, in fact, we had a 2nd Amendment, protection against tyranny.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2013, 10:26:30 PM »
Good grief.  Our country is doomed from this lack of intelligence.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2013, 10:27:57 PM »
Imagine if they were held to the same standards for say, 2001-2008.

famousdayandyear

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2013, 10:31:46 PM »
Can I get your input as to why this is an upsetting idea?

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2013, 10:33:43 PM »
Can I get your input as to why this is an upsetting idea?

That's a joke, right?

famousdayandyear

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2013, 10:44:33 PM »
That's a joke, right?

Not anymore of a joke than on multiple recent threads that begin:

"I'd like your input on"    or
"I'd like your opinion on"   or
"I read this article.  What do you think..."  or

whatever.

Why is my question more ludicrous than those?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 10:45:35 PM »
That's a joke, right?

I am curious as well.  Because Liberals have their panties in a twist they want to charge conservatives with sedition?  Where is that in the Constitution?
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

famousdayandyear

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2013, 10:49:29 PM »
I am curious as well.  Because Liberals have their panties in a twist they want to charge conservatives with sedition?  Where is that in the Constitution?

Is sedition not in the Constitution?  Then where do they get that.  I'm trying to be as polite as I can to understand why conservatives can't find common ground with the people at moveon.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2013, 10:57:56 PM »
Is sedition not in the Constitution?  Then where do they get that.  I'm trying to be as polite as I can to understand why conservatives can't find common ground with the people at moveon.


So you think the conservatives committed sedition?  I don't think they did so I guess it is difficult to find common ground in that regard. I supported what they did.  If they committed sedition, then so did I.

BTW I cannot stand Karl Rove, but I don't support the move-on people who keep trying to have him arrested, either. 

Quote
Sedition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection

In law, sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws. Seditious words in writing are seditious libel. A seditionist is one who engages in or promotes the interests of sedition.


I guess you would have to show me where Cruz or Lee used their speech to encourage insurrection.  What I saw was them pushing the GOP senators and congress to use every legal tool in their belt to stop the funding of Obamacare.  I stayed up until 3 a.m. watching the fillibuster and never once did I hear them call for a violent uprising.  ???????
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

famousdayandyear

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 11:03:43 PM »
So you think the conservatives committed sedition?  I don't think they did so I guess it is difficult to find common ground in that regard. I supported what they did.  If they committed sedition, then so did I.

BTW I cannot stand Karl Rove, but I don't support the move-on people who keep trying to have him arrested, either. 

I guess you would have to show me where Cruz or Lee used their speech to encourage insurrection.  What I saw was them pushing the GOP senators and congress to use every legal tool in their belt to stop the funding of Obamacare.  I stayed up until 3 a.m. watching the fillibuster and never once did I hear them call for a violent uprising.  ???????

I still don't understand why we can't all just get along since I'm studying to be a professor of World History.  Can't we just elect somebody who can fix all this?

famousdayandyear

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2013, 11:12:47 PM »
That's a joke, right?

AbaraXas, why are you not responding?  Was I rude?

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2013, 11:13:19 PM »
I still don't understand why we can't all just get along since I'm studying to be a professor of World History.  Can't we just elect somebody who can fix all this?

IMHO, one of the biggest problems in this country is we keep thinking the solution is to just to elect someone. We The People are looking outside ourselves for the answers. We don't need "I'm from the government and I'm here to help", we need to change ourselves first. Sure, someone who we elect that does represent our values and does get government out of the way is important, but I think the bigger picture isn't who we elect, that is just a symptom of a bigger problem.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2013, 11:14:14 PM »
AbaraXas, why are you not responding?  Was I rude?

I was typing on two threads, I'm very ADD, see above.. :)

I may have misread your post as thinking arresting people for sedition simply on their 'speech' or going against the system is a good idea.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2013, 11:14:36 PM by AbaraXas »

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2013, 11:17:41 PM »
Is sedition not in the Constitution?  Then where do they get that.  I'm trying to be as polite as I can to understand why conservatives can't find common ground with the people at moveon.

1. Regarding 'sedition', our system is compromised of checks and balances and as a Representative Republic, our 'system' is one of constantly going against the powers that be. Doing that, in our system, is not sedition because it is how our system works. Sedition in our system would be criminalizing dissent and speech against the powers.

2. What values should we sacrifice to find common ground with Move On?  What values are they willing to sacrifice to find common ground with our side?

famousdayandyear

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2013, 11:32:10 PM »
1. Regarding 'sedition', our system is compromised of checks and balances and as a Representative Republic, our 'system' is one of constantly going against the powers that be. Doing that, in our system, is not sedition because it is how our system works. Sedition in our system would be criminalizing dissent and speech against the powers.

2. What values should we sacrifice to find common ground with Move On?  What values are they willing to sacrifice to find common ground with our side?

I know you are a good person, and I don't want to use words like sacrifice and values.
And I am polite.  Tell me what you mean by sedition?

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2013, 11:46:09 PM »
I know you are a good person, and I don't want to use words like sacrifice and values.
And I am polite.  Tell me what you mean by sedition?

Pretty much exactly what was posted above, emphasis added:

Quote
sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organization, that is deemed by the legal authority to tend toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority.

The emphasis is the key point here because our Constitution is the authority of the land, even above legal authority. If the legal authority outlaws speech or dissent, then the 'legal authority' is the one committing sedition, not the person who speaks out against that legal authority.

famousdayandyear

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Re: Tyrants if left to their own devices: Arrest Conservatives For Sedition
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2013, 11:55:56 PM »
Pretty much exactly what was posted above, emphasis added:

The emphasis is the key point here because our Constitution is the authority of the land, even above legal authority. If the legal authority outlaws speech or dissent, then the 'legal authority' is the one committing sedition, not the person who speaks out against that legal authority.

Please PM this excellent knowledge to LS and request he give us a damn break.
Thanks -- in behalf of me and the site.

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