Author Topic: Pastor Marvin Winans Won't Bless Child Born Out Of Wedlock At Church: Report  (Read 2790 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,453
  • Currently Thinking of a Clever Avatar
Interesting. Pastor Winans does not reject a blessing, but not in public. It would seem, then, that the whole ceremony of blessing is nothing more than a show, the kind of public theatrics Jesus warned his followers not to perform (Matthew 7, I believe)-- in other words, worthless.

Miss Grace would be well advised to find another church.

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Dan - I'll not judge her.

For all we know she got conned by some guy with well broken in running shoes. You know that happens, way too often.

She wants her child to be welcomed into the faith, and to me "Suffer the little children to come to me" is a hell of a lot more important than picking out the splinter in my neighbor's eye.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Dan - I'll not judge her.

For all we know she got conned by some guy with well broken in running shoes. You know that happens, way too often.

She wants her child to be welcomed into the faith, and to me "Suffer the little children to come to me" is a hell of a lot more important than picking out the splinter in my neighbor's eye.

But you are more than willing to judge the Pastor who is much closer to the issue than you are?

The Pastor likely has many young girls in his congregation who don't need to see what amounts to public acceptance of her immorality.  Sometimes you just have to accept responsibility for your behavior.  The boy is 2 years old and will not remember any of it.  This is all about the mother.

Not getting public affirmation for the results of your behavior is a long way from 'rejecting her child from the faith'.

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Yes. I hold a pastor to a much higher standard than us sinners.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Yes. I hold a pastor to a much higher standard than us sinners.

Pastors aren't non-sinners and that wasn't the point.

The point was that you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to an unwed mother but not to the pastor who is much closer to the situation than you are.  Do you hold him to a higher standard simply so that you can judge him without feeling guilty?


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • J. Myrle Fuller
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,453
  • Currently Thinking of a Clever Avatar
The two need not be mutually exclusive. After all, the first thing this woman did was run to the media. The quote does illustrate that she is more concerned that the church is looking down on her, not her child.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Pastors aren't non-sinners and that wasn't the point.

The point was that you are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to an unwed mother but not to the pastor who is much closer to the situation than you are.  Do you hold him to a higher standard simply so that you can judge him without feeling guilty?

Nope. I hold him to a higher standard because of his position as spiritual guide to his congregation, much as I hold judges to a higher standard regarding illegal or immoral behavior than I do the average person in the street, or kindergarten teachers to a high standard of child care than a 16 year old baby sitter.

The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 48,187
  • TBR Illuminati
Nope. I hold him to a higher standard because of his position as spiritual guide to his congregation, much as I hold judges to a higher standard regarding illegal or immoral behavior than I do the average person in the street, or kindergarten teachers to a high standard of child care than a 16 year old baby sitter.



Exactly.  He took on the higher standard for himself when he became a pastor and started ministering to his people.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Exactly.  He took on the higher standard for himself when he became a pastor and started ministering to his people.

THANK YOU!!!!!!  :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :beer: :beer: :beer:

I was fumbling for this. Dude wasn't born a pastor. He chose to become one.

Not hassling that - I have know a lot of good pastors, nuns, Fathers and preachers. Folk who accepted the call and dealt with it with grace.

But if you take on the job of spiritual guidance you are damned right I am going to hold you to the light.

What does Jesus himself say about children? He is silent on the down sides, maybe because he was smart enough not to have them, but "Suffer the little children" is a pretty clear statement. No provisos, no wiggle room. It doesn't say children of a marriage. It says children. Full bleep stop.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 11:55:24 PM by EC »
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 48,187
  • TBR Illuminati
THANK YOU!!!!!!  :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :beer: :beer: :beer:

I was fumbling for this. Dude wasn't born a pastor. He chose to become one.

Not hassling that - I have know a lot of good pastors, nuns, Fathers and preachers. Folk who accepted the call and dealt with it with grace.

But if you take on the job of spiritual guidance you are damned right I am going to hold you to the light.

What does Jesus himself say about children? He is silent on the down sides, maybe because he was smart enough not to have them, but "Suffer the little children" is a pretty clear statement. No provisos, no wiggle room. It doesn't say children of a marriage. It says children. Full bleeping stop.

Having a child myself, I must object to being "smart enough" to not have them; one finds one's self in a world of simple wisdom when one has a child.  As for Jesus, the whole of the world were His children - He had more than most of us can count.

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
The two need not be mutually exclusive. After all, the first thing this woman did was run to the media. The quote does illustrate that she is more concerned that the church is looking down on her, not her child.

It's always about the children, doncha know...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
But if you take on the job of spiritual guidance you are damned right I am going to hold you to the light.

What does Jesus himself say about children? He is silent on the down sides, maybe because he was smart enough not to have them, but "Suffer the little children" is a pretty clear statement. No provisos, no wiggle room. It doesn't say children of a marriage. It says children. Full bleeping stop.

Let's see, choosing to be a pastor vs choosing to spread your legs.

Hmmm... race to the bottom anyone?


« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 09:45:53 AM by GourmetDan »
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Having a child myself, I must object to being "smart enough" to not have them; one finds one's self in a world of simple wisdom when one has a child.  As for Jesus, the whole of the world were His children - He had more than most of us can count.

It is a joy - when they leave home.  :whistle:

And yes - I would do it again, given the chance. All of them turned out good, sensible and hardworking - blame their mother for that. All bar one have degrees, do jobs they love (One has a sheep farm in New Zealand with her husband - she always was an odd child) have varying numbers of kids and have NEVER failed to make me proud of them.

The one? Come on, it's her first birthday soon. Let her learn to walk first.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline NavyCanDo

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,911
What a tragic story. It's churches like that that turn people off from going to church.   Churches should be "a Hospital" for the broken, the hurt, the needy, the hopeless - not a place that pushes them away. That is not what Jesus taught.  My church reaches out to people like this young lady each year by providing a free oil change to Single Moms in the church and the community. Not only free oil changes but often bald tires are replace, and some minor engine repairs are done.   And while they wait the kids are being entertained, and the Moms are pampered.  This year we had 180 Single Mom's.   

The trappings that some churches put on themselves are destructive. You will be welcomed here but you must [         ] first.


The Gospel Transforms Us. Religion Entraps Us!

A nation that turns away from prayer will ultimately find itself in desperate need of it. :Jonathan Cahn

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,691
What a tragic story. It's churches like that that turn people off from going to church.   Churches should be "a Hospital" for the broken, the hurt, the needy, the hopeless - not a place that pushes them away. That is not what Jesus taught.  My church reaches out to people like this young lady each year by providing a free oil change to Single Moms in the church and the community. Not only free oil changes but often bald tires are replace, and some minor engine repairs are done.   And while they wait the kids are being entertained, and the Moms are pampered.  This year we had 180 Single Mom's.   

The trappings that some churches put on themselves are destructive. You will be welcomed here but you must [         ] first.

The Gospel Transforms Us. Religion Entraps Us!

Pope Francis called a young woman in Rome whose child was refused baptism because she was not married.  He offered to baptize the child himself.

You express the proper attitude perfectly:  If the Church is not a hospital for sinners, what is it? 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Pope Francis called a young woman in Rome whose child was refused baptism because she was not married.  He offered to baptize the child himself.

You express the proper attitude perfectly:  If the Church is not a hospital for sinners, what is it?

It is many things.

Home. A refuge. A community. A place to make a stand. A bar (think Cheers).  :laugh:

No child should ever be barred from grace. I am proud of His Holiness for making a proper stand.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
No child should ever be barred from grace. I am proud of His Holiness for making a proper stand.

No child was ever barred from grace.  Just no public affirmation of a mother's sinful lifestyle.

It's so hard to remember that when condemning the pastor is the goal...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
No child was ever barred from grace.  Just no public affirmation of a mother's sinful lifestyle.

It's so hard to remember that when condemning the pastor is the goal...

Come on, mate. Now who is judging?

How do you know she is sinful? OK, apart from the fact she is human and therefore a sinner by definition.

I would point out to you - she kept the child. Went to term instead of went to an abortion clinic. There is no one who thinks being a single parent is easy, yet she chose to keep the life entrusted to her care. It isn't a lot to ask that her church rallies around - is it?
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Come on, mate. Now who is judging?

How do you know she is sinful? OK, apart from the fact she is human and therefore a sinner by definition.

I would point out to you - she kept the child. Went to term instead of went to an abortion clinic. There is no one who thinks being a single parent is easy, yet she chose to keep the life entrusted to her care. It isn't a lot to ask that her church rallies around - is it?

Not only have you been judging, 'mate'; but you have been misrepresenting the pastor's actions from day one.  How do you know she isn't sinful, by any definition, eh?

I already explained to you that the pastor has more souls to shepherd than just her and he cannot appear to validate her lifestyle.  As before, you ignore that responsibility and keep right on misrepresenting the facts.

Now you want to shift away from the misrepresentation that the child was 'barred from grace' when that wasn't the case?


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Yes - I have been judging from day one of posting this story. I shall continue to do so.

He is her pastor. The one person she should be able to trust to aid her and guide her and advise her. He publicly told her to (effectively) F off, she and her child aren't good enough for his flock because she is a single mother.

I hold pastors to high standards, irrespective of denomination or indeed religion. It is a hard job. Usually thankless. But no one made him do it, he was called to do it. I expect him to show the same grace and mercy as our Lord would.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
Yes - I have been judging from day one of posting this story. I shall continue to do so.

He is her pastor. The one person she should be able to trust to aid her and guide her and advise her. He publicly told her to (effectively) F off, she and her child aren't good enough for his flock because she is a single mother.

Again, he has others that he must think of and he cannot afford to give the appearance of condoning her behavior.  He didn't publicly tell her to F off.  She is the one who made it a public issue, not him.

Quote
I hold pastors to high standards, irrespective of denomination or indeed religion. It is a hard job. Usually thankless. But no one made him do it, he was called to do it. I expect him to show the same grace and mercy as our Lord would.

He did show grace, he didn't tell her to F off and he didn't 'bar the child from grace' as you claim.



"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline NavyCanDo

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,911
A nation that turns away from prayer will ultimately find itself in desperate need of it. :Jonathan Cahn

Offline GourmetDan

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7,168
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf