Author Topic: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger  (Read 9900 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2013, 06:54:44 pm »
No. I am one of those that never thought you can get from point A to point Z without any steps in between. My thoughts on the overall strategy were expressed a month or two ago. None the less, when you arrive at point G, you don't say we can't get to Z so we give up. You stick together and perhaps get to L. They certainly could have extracted something, perhaps a delay, if the had held strong and been wise about their strategy. Instead by folding (GOP senators) they end up with nothing and looking like the losers they are.
Immediately following Pearl Harbor, the US Navy could have appointed Admiral Cruz to lead the retaliation against Japan. He could have ordered every vessel and sailor, to steam straight west for Japan.

Seeing he was heading for disaster, a higher authority could have halted that fleet, to save them for when they were ready, and not doomed to certain destruction.

Fortunately during WWII we had wise commanders. Also when outnumbered, General Washington got the most from a bad situation, by cunning, strategy, patience etc.

A lot of willful denial going on these days.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline xfreeper

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2013, 06:57:43 pm »
Obama might delay the mandate on his own, but he's not going to do it because the GOP is willing to shutdown the government over it, especially since they and not he got the bulk of the blame.

We will never know what barry would have done if the GOP had stuck together

But you can't force a major change from one House of Congress

Yes you can when they hold the purse strings

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2013, 07:00:25 pm »
Obama might delay the mandate on his own, but he's not going to do it because the GOP is willing to shutdown the government over it, especially since they and not he got the bulk of the blame.

We will never know what barry would have done if the GOP had stuck together

But you can't force a major change from one House of Congress

Yes you can when they hold the purse strings

ONLY if they are willing to exercise their prerogatives!
 
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 07:01:00 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2013, 07:04:50 pm »
Obama might delay the mandate on his own, but he's not going to do it because the GOP is willing to shutdown the government over it, especially since they and not he got the bulk of the blame.

We will never know what barry would have done if the GOP had stuck together

Yes we do.  He would have done exactly what he did.  So would you and so would I.  Think of this scenario: if the Democrats had tried to jam a tax increase on Bush or they would shut down the government.  They would have gotten the blame, and Bush would NEVER have yielded.

Quote
But you can't force a major change from one House of Congress

Yes you can when they hold the purse strings

How'd that work out in this case?  The House held the purse strings, shutdown the government, and got nothing.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2013, 07:16:55 pm »
Is anyone else here getting tired of continual circular arguments from some quarters?

I sure am!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2013, 07:54:38 pm »
Immediately following Pearl Harbor, the US Navy could have appointed Admiral Cruz to lead the retaliation against Japan. He could have ordered every vessel and sailor, to steam straight west for Japan.

Seeing he was heading for disaster, a higher authority could have halted that fleet, to save them for when they were ready, and not doomed to certain destruction.

Fortunately during WWII we had wise commanders. Also when outnumbered, General Washington got the most from a bad situation, by cunning, strategy, patience etc.

A lot of willful denial going on these days.

Please, now: we're not at war, and the Tea Party did not bomb Washington. Nor was Mr. Cruz's effort intended as an "all-out assault", nor did it constitute a reckless or poorly-considered use of congressional authority. There is no level at which your analogy really works.

The bad situation is which we presently find ourselves exists not because of, but in spite of Mr. Cruz's efforts.

We have a Democrat Senate and President comprised of radical Progressives who refuse to compromise in any meaningful way. Their goal is democratic socialism, and they will not allow any reversal of the gains they have thus far made toward that end. Along with Democrat House members and Democrat constituent members, the party at present finds itself essentially united in its beliefs and purposes, even in spite of great differences in class and social standing as between Democrat leaders and their client groups. 

For their part, the Republicans find themselves strongly divided between a definable class of permanent politicians, lobbyists, and consultants on one hand, and the set of constituent groups that comprise their base voters, on the other. Increasingly, these two sets of people have less in common in the way of either social standing, beliefs or purposes. In point of fact, they are growing apart.

GOP leaders tend to shun conflict, where their Democrat counterparts embrace it. The GOP base wants its leaders to fight for their principles, but they most often decline to do so. In part, this reticence is due to fear of the (very real) damage that can be done to them as a result of the modern control of all social institutions by Progressive liberals. But it is also due to a gradual shift on the part of GOP leaders, away from the beliefs and attitudes of their base voters.

Into this environment came a radical, transformative President, one given neither to self-doubt or compromise, but rather to conflict and intentional antagonism. Exploiting the growing rift between the GOP elites and their natural political base (which here I will describe roughly as a loose coalition of religious traditionalists, cultural activists, free-market libertarians, small business people and entrepreneurs, and white, suburban and exurban families), the President set about to mock and ridicule the attitudes and beliefs of these people while tying them to their leaders as though they were millstones.

The Tea Party was a natural reaction to the Democrats' legislative overreach and open hostility toward conservative values, but it also provided a convenient and visible bulls-eye for a Progressive President and his minions, all well-schooled in the teachings of Saul Alinsky: pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

And so, Obama's advisers employed a divide-and-conquer strategy not just between Americans, but specifically between Republican leaders and their own voters. It was and is, an audacious and clever move, knowing that many life-long Republican political figures have a good deal more in common - socially and attitudinally - with Washington Democrats, than they do with the people who elected them. The result over time, and especially after 2010, has been to dishearten Republican base voters, while increasing their polarization from the people who represent them.

And so, into the fray stepped Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and others, in an effort to reverse the polarity of the current political dynamic - in the process, inviting their own electrocution.  Anyone who thinks that what they are doing is in the pursuit of self-aggrandizement should ask themselves whether they would be willing to subject themselves to the torrents of hatred, abuse, vitiol and public disdain that has been brought down upon them - for daring to stand up for the people that their fellow Republicans increasingly refuse to represent, or in some cases: really no longer do represent.

And so the (Tea) party will go on...
 
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #56 on: October 17, 2013, 07:58:53 pm »
And we know Tea Partiers don't want any compromise.

Quote
President Barack Obama warned Republicans in Congress on Monday that he will not negotiate over an extension of the U.S. debt ceiling...

We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline musiclady

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #57 on: October 17, 2013, 08:11:41 pm »
These things don't make you sound like much of a liberal, yet you insist you are.  I think you're a time waster and you're boring.   You're going on ignore--if I can figure out how to do that.

Good move.  Your observations are accurate.

(If you need some help with the 'ignore' thing, I'll be glad to give it to you.  ^-^  It only took 24 hours for me to realize for sure that he was just your run of the mill liberal troll, pretending to be something that he's not.  Leftist internet interlopers may vary in personal skills, some more well behaved [ergo, more deceitful] than others, but they all have one goal......... DIVIDE and conquer).
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #58 on: October 17, 2013, 08:18:22 pm »
Please, now: we're not at war, and the Tea Party did not bomb Washington. Nor was Mr. Cruz's effort intended as an "all-out assault", nor did it constitute a reckless or poorly-considered use of congressional authority. There is no level at which your analogy really works.

The bad situation is which we presently find ourselves exists not because of, but in spite of Mr. Cruz's efforts.

We have a Democrat Senate and President comprised of radical Progressives who refuse to compromise in any meaningful way. Their goal is democratic socialism, and they will not allow any reversal of the gains they have thus far made toward that end. Along with Democrat House members and Democrat constituent members, the party at present finds itself essentially united in its beliefs and purposes, even in spite of great differences in class and social standing as between Democrat leaders and their client groups. 

For their part, the Republicans find themselves strongly divided between a definable class of permanent politicians, lobbyists, and consultants on one hand, and the set of constituent groups that comprise their base voters, on the other. Increasingly, these two sets of people have less in common in the way of either social standing, beliefs or purposes. In point of fact, they are growing apart.

GOP leaders tend to shun conflict, where their Democrat counterparts embrace it. The GOP base wants its leaders to fight for their principles, but they most often decline to do so. In part, this reticence is due to fear of the (very real) damage that can be done to them as a result of the modern control of all social institutions by Progressive liberals. But it is also due to a gradual shift on the part of GOP leaders, away from the beliefs and attitudes of their base voters.

Into this environment came a radical, transformative President, one given neither to self-doubt or compromise, but rather to conflict and intentional antagonism. Exploiting the growing rift between the GOP elites and their natural political base (which here I will describe roughly as a loose coalition of religious traditionalists, cultural activists, free-market libertarians, small business people and entrepreneurs, and white, suburban and exurban families), the President set about to mock and ridicule the attitudes and beliefs of these people while tying them to their leaders as though they were millstones.

The Tea Party was a natural reaction to the Democrats' legislative overreach and open hostility toward conservative values, but it also provided a convenient and visible bulls-eye for a Progressive President and his minions, all well-schooled in the teachings of Saul Alinsky: pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.

And so, Obama's advisers employed a divide-and-conquer strategy not just between Americans, but specifically between Republican leaders and their own voters. It was and is, an audacious and clever move, knowing that many life-long Republican political figures have a good deal more in common - socially and attitudinally - with Washington Democrats, than they do with the people who elected them. The result over time, and especially after 2010, has been to dishearten Republican base voters, while increasing their polarization from the people who represent them.

And so, into the fray stepped Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and others, in an effort to reverse the polarity of the current political dynamic - in the process, inviting their own electrocution.  Anyone who thinks that what they are doing is in the pursuit of self-aggrandizement should ask themselves whether they would be willing to subject themselves to the torrents of hatred, abuse, vitiol and public disdain that has been brought down upon them - for daring to stand up for the people that their fellow Republicans increasingly refuse to represent, or in some cases: really no longer do represent.

And so the (Tea) party will go on...

Wow.  This is absolutely SUPERB, andy.

It's a clear synopsis of exactly what we're facing.

As a conservative Republican (who IS a Republican), I am deeply dismayed that those who are supposed to be representing me, are representing inside the beltway, power-hungry, party attending special interests, and not ME.  A loyal, thinking Republican who actually lives in the REAL world outside of Washington.

How, I continually ask myself, can my 'leadership' be so blind to what's going on?  To what the American people want from them?

I strongly believe that a third party would be disastrous to conservatism, but I do not know what's going to make the establishment Republicans wake up to what's really going on in their party.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #59 on: October 17, 2013, 08:24:07 pm »
Wow.  This is absolutely SUPERB, andy.

It's a clear synopsis of exactly what we're facing.

As a conservative Republican (who IS a Republican), I am deeply dismayed that those who are supposed to be representing me, are representing inside the beltway, power-hungry, party attending special interests, and not ME.  A loyal, thinking Republican who actually lives in the REAL world outside of Washington.

How, I continually ask myself, can my 'leadership' be so blind to what's going on?  To what the American people want from them?

I strongly believe that a third party would be disastrous to conservatism, but I do not know what's going to make the establishment Republicans wake up to what's really going on in their party.

I think that you are far from alone in those thoughts! Well Stated! And I agree with everything Andy said as well!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 08:24:48 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2013, 08:41:50 pm »
I think that you are far from alone in those thoughts! Well Stated! And I agree with everything Andy said as well!

There have always been conservative and moderate/liberal factions within the Republican party.  You and I are old enough to remember back to the Republican convention in 1964 with Goldwater against Scranton (how much more fun it was to watch those conventions when the nominee was decided there and then!), with the conservative wing against the moderate wing of the party.  There has always been the Rockefeller wing, but somehow it didn't seem as important that there was division back a few decades ago as it does now..

Now we're talking about the very survival of America......not just some variations in goals.  The progressive left under Obama is destroying the very infrastructure of our Republic.  They are tearing away the very fabric of our society.  They are willfully breaking laws left and right, and very few of our representatives are uttering a word about it.  The left is now fulfilling the diabolical goals that go back 100 years in the Dem party, and have literally eliminated any conservative opposition within their party and now serve as a united front......a veritable battering ram against everything we hold dear.

We cannot compromise with people who don't share a single goal with us, who don't have a single value that we have.

And yet we've got representatives who seem to be hold their ears and singing "LA, LA, LA!" to try to avoid the reality of the situation we're in.  They're more interested in their own power and perks than in the liberty and well-being of their constituents.  And they seem oblivious to the threats we're facing from the left.

It's maddening and disheartening, and perhaps the only consolation is that we are NOT alone.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #61 on: October 17, 2013, 08:44:47 pm »
Andy, I'm afraid it goes beyond just having "a Democrat Senate and President comprised of radical progressives." Yes, that's certainly true. But then, and you touched on it, there's the corruption. These guys of relatively modest means get in the senate, especially, and in short order they are multi millionaires. How does that work? I think we all know the answer.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #62 on: October 17, 2013, 08:48:56 pm »
There have always been conservative and moderate/liberal factions within the Republican party.  You and I are old enough to remember back to the Republican convention in 1964 with Goldwater against Scranton (how much more fun it was to watch those conventions when the nominee was decided there and then!), with the conservative wing against the moderate wing of the party.  There has always been the Rockefeller wing, but somehow it didn't seem as important that there was division back a few decades ago as it does now..

Now we're talking about the very survival of America......not just some variations in goals.  The progressive left under Obama is destroying the very infrastructure of our Republic.  They are tearing away the very fabric of our society.  They are willfully breaking laws left and right, and very few of our representatives are uttering a word about it.  The left is now fulfilling the diabolical goals that go back 100 years in the Dem party, and have literally eliminated any conservative opposition within their party and now serve as a united front......a veritable battering ram against everything we hold dear.

We cannot compromise with people who don't share a single goal with us, who don't have a single value that we have.

And yet we've got representatives who seem to be hold their ears and singing "LA, LA, LA!" to try to avoid the reality of the situation we're in.  They're more interested in their own power and perks than in the liberty and well-being of their constituents.  And they seem oblivious to the threats we're facing from the left.

It's maddening and disheartening, and perhaps the only consolation is that we are NOT alone.

 :amen: Sister! And we won't have those kind of representatives for long if I have any say in the matter!

It may go unnoticed by others here that not one Republican from Texas voted for this "deal" last evening!  Not a one! And I can tell you for sure that there were some who REALLY REALLY wanted to but were afraid that it would have ended their career if they had! They were right!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 08:53:05 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2013, 08:50:02 pm »
Nobody's afraid of Ted Cruz but his disciples in the House.  Now that he's got that "loser" scarlet letter on him, even they won't fear him any longer.

What makes you think Cruz gained supporters?  If anything, he's alienated many Republicans who share his goals.

�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2013, 08:51:04 pm »
There are many here who are bothered by the very idea that you would come on this forum  and present alternative ideas. Some will tell you to leave, others will put you on ignore.

 Hell, I'm a conservative and some are trying to run me off the forum because I disagree with them! 

So don't get discouraged.

So sayeth the hypocrite who readily slapped people into ignore status on that old TBL site.   :police:

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #65 on: October 17, 2013, 08:51:17 pm »
...still laughing....leverage..that's their own damn fault by not sticking together instead of all the infighting...you sure don't see the Dems do that!

They had leverage alright. Cruz actually worked out a brilliant plan and McConnell, McCain, etc., refused to go along with it.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2013, 08:53:12 pm »
Good move.  Your observations are accurate.

(If you need some help with the 'ignore' thing, I'll be glad to give it to you.  ^-^  It only took 24 hours for me to realize for sure that he was just your run of the mill liberal troll, pretending to be something that he's not.  Leftist internet interlopers may vary in personal skills, some more well behaved [ergo, more deceitful] than others, but they all have one goal......... DIVIDE and conquer).

Thank you Music Lady, I got it figured out via a kind PM.  Liberal Spy can run his/her con on other posters here.  I'm done.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2013, 08:58:05 pm »
Is anyone else here getting tired of continual circular arguments from some quarters?

I sure am!

Me.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline happyg

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2013, 09:08:56 pm »

Liberal_Spy

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #69 on: October 17, 2013, 09:38:38 pm »
Thank you Music Lady, I got it figured out via a kind PM.  Liberal Spy can run his/her con on other posters here.  I'm done.

I hope somebody will let me in on my con.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2013, 09:41:11 pm »
I hope somebody will let me in on my con.

Lipstick did sort of let you in, she said it is like trying to nail jello to the wall getting a straight answer from you... 
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Liberal_Spy

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2013, 09:49:02 pm »
Lipstick did sort of let you in, she said it is like trying to nail jello to the wall getting a straight answer from you...

Sometimes when I disagree with the logic that led a poster to make the point they made I choose to simply let it go, rather than let the discussion get to the point where we are both irritated because neither person understands the others point of view. I'm also on a conservative forum, and it becomes way too much to try to reply to every post that disagrees with me.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 09:49:28 pm by Liberal_Spy »

Offline aligncare

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #72 on: October 17, 2013, 10:41:19 pm »
Hang in there kid. I think you're doing alright. Personally, I would never go on a liberal site and try to have reasoned conversations with them. I doubt I could sway anybody to my POV. Besides, they'd tear my head off. Democrats can be real nasty and get real personal. Who needs it.

One other thing. I said before I come from a family of Democrats. Now I may despise their thinking—but I don't despise them. You're a self professed liberal. But you're also a fellow American and young. And so there's still hope for you.

You know, I served in Vietnam, so I would never turn my back on a fellow veteran—no matter how much I disagreed with his politics. :patriot:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2013, 11:05:17 pm »
Is anyone else here getting tired of continual circular arguments from some quarters?

I sure am!

 :thumbsup:

Liberal_Spy

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Re: Ted Cruz makes the Democrats stronger
« Reply #74 on: October 17, 2013, 11:09:02 pm »

You know, I served in Vietnam, so I would never turn my back on a fellow veteran—no matter how much I disagreed with his politics. :patriot:

I've always loved that military service is a bond that persists through all other differences.