Author Topic: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism  (Read 1181 times)

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Offline happyg

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Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« on: October 16, 2013, 12:00:35 PM »
It's a nice moral imperative, but it doesn't change the math . . . your insurance premiums are going to go way up. They have to."

I know there are a lot of Dave Ramsey fans in our audience, and I think you'll appreciate how succinctly and effectly he explains in under 10 minutes why ObamaCare cannot be anything but a disaster. It's much the same thing we've been saying here all along, but it's Dave Ramsey.

And he pulls no punches. ObamaCare is communism. And once he explains why, it's really not even arguable. ObamaCare obliterates basic principles that govern how insurance works, taking away every method insurers use to mitigate risk, and mandates a) everyone be treated exactly the same, regardless of who they are or the level of risk they represent; and b) everyone participate whether they want to or not.

You know how auto insurers reward you with lower premiums if you're a good driver? Sensible policy, yes? ObamaCare makes anything like that impossible in health insurance, because the whole idea is that low-risk policyholders and high-risk policyholders must be treated exactly the same, and must pay the same - and no one can opt out because if you can afford to pay and won't take much from the system, the system needs you! Or more precisely, the system needs your money.

Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IsVqOe07cdY

By the way, I bet a lot of you didn't know how bad an "investment" Social Security is - and that you don't even take out as much as you put in, let alone enjoy any return on investment. As Ramsey says, the technical mathematical term for this is "sucks."

Like Social Security, ObamaCare is designed to overrule, by legislative fiat, basic economic principles. That simply cannot be done without massive negative consequences, and we're already seeing that in the form of higher premiums, higher deductibles and much poorer coverage than people were led to believe. ObamaCare is a total disaster, and in this video, Dave Ramsey explains in under 10 minutes why there was never a chance it would be anything other than that.
http://www.caintv.com/video-dave-ramseys-takedown-of

Offline Bigun

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2013, 12:04:00 PM »
Dave is right as rain on all counts!

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2013, 02:11:25 PM »
Calling everything "communism" diminishes the argument.

First, it is incorrect since under communism the government owns the means of production.

Secondly, it repeats the "boy crying wolf" effect.

If one investigates the history of employer mandates, and individual mandates, one finds they were considered and supported by some conservative organizations and individuals, as the best of fairly poor choices.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Bigun

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 02:18:47 PM »
"There are thousands hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root."

- Henry David  Thoreau

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2013, 02:27:25 PM »
"Communism" is not the right word, even if it reflects the spirit of the law.

I think it more accurate to say that ObamaCare is informed by collectivist politics and Marxian economics.  It puts the individual under State command as regards a decision to purchase health services, while the organization of those services features bureaucratic control and top-down mandates that restrict choice, control prices and otherwise substitutes the will of central planners for the informed decisions of consumers. It also redefines "insurance" in such a way as to render the term meaningless; without underwriting, actuarial science and competitive pricing, what remains is essentially a form of tax-subsidized, mandatory indemnity.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2013, 02:50:03 PM »
Incorrect: First, it is incorrect since under communism the government owns the means of production.

Quote
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need
Karl Marx, Critique of the Gotha Program
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 02:51:44 PM »
"Communism" is not the right word, even if it reflects the spirit of the law.

I think it more accurate to say that ObamaCare is informed by collectivist politics and Marxian economics.  It puts the individual under State command as regards a decision to purchase health services, while the organization of those services features bureaucratic control and top-down mandates that restrict choice, control prices and otherwise substitutes the will of central planners for the informed decisions of consumers. It also redefines "insurance" in such a way as to render the term meaningless; without underwriting, actuarial science and competitive pricing, what remains is essentially a form of tax-subsidized, mandatory indemnity.
Merely calling things "communist" is not winning the argument. Heritage and Cato advised Republican administrations, on expanding health coverage in the country.

In the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s calling something "communist" was a way to win an argument, because the USSR, China and Cuba were our enemies.

Today the majority of voters are too young to grasp that era, or make sense of it, since their electronics, household goods and clothing coming from China.

Most countries with equal standards of living to us, have universal health care, with major government involvement.

Today's voter will be swayed by his costs, and his benefits. If the govt. forces a 20 something to spend $400 per month, to pay for elderly people and illegal immigrants, that might carry weight with him.

Calling it "communist" all but loses the argument.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 03:03:41 PM »

Calling it "communist" all but loses the argument.

Yes, but it's also inaccurate. "Communism" is a form of agrarian or industrial collectivism in which land and capital resources are state-owned and collectively operated, with their productive output processed, transported and distributed solely at the discretion of central planners. It is tyranny enforced by privation and political repression, and ultimately, in all known cases, by starvation. 

So, as I said in my original post, it is more accurate to describe ObamaCare as a collectivist state-run enterprise, whose results will be similarly predictable and disastrous.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 03:38:28 PM »
Yes, but it's also inaccurate. "Communism" is a form of agrarian or industrial collectivism in which land and capital resources are state-owned and collectively operated, with their productive output processed, transported and distributed solely at the discretion of central planners. It is tyranny enforced by privation and political repression, and ultimately, in all known cases, by starvation. 

So, as I said in my original post, it is more accurate to describe ObamaCare as a collectivist state-run enterprise, whose results will be similarly predictable and disastrous.
The typical citizen doesn't study economics to any great degree.

Hitler ran a command economy with private ownership of some factors of production.

Stalin ran a command economy with government ownership of most all factors of production.

Both were our enemies and were bad, so we don't like them. Plus we won, they lost, life is good so our system is good.

But the US has had a mixed economy all along. The ratio of government ownership is somewhat different from Canada or Denmark. The amount of "command" is somewhat different.

Americans are results oriented. To defeat Obamacare requires a demonstration of lousy results, at ridiculous prices.

"Forcing people to buy overpriced coverage, for things they don't need, on a website that doesn't work is outrageous."

That works far better than:

"Obamacare is communism"
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Olivia

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Re: Dave Ramsey lays it out that ObamaCare is communism
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 03:45:31 PM »
To me, the most important thing is how the republicans and democrats, and certain other groups, are exempt from any of this catastrophe. How can they get away with that? 
Truthfully, the most important thing in life is knowing what the most important things in life are, and prioritizing them accordingly.   Melchor Lim


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