Sisyphus' Boulder - The Uphill Battle of Third Party Solutions (Exclusive)

[Rapunzel]

I could go through this paragraph by paragraph and highlight all the reasons I disagree with you, but in the end it just comes down to me disagreeing with you about the role money plays in politics. It's also really late, and I'm too lazy right now.

Actually what AB wrote is very astute.

What I would advocate is something I heard Mike Huckabee (and I am not a Huckabee fan) say on his show last weekend - that when an ad is run under a candidates name and it outright lies the candidate lied about should be able to sue for liable.  It is not so much the money as the dishonesty where the real problem lies.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Very nice post AbaraXas.

A large portion of the 'business' side of the Republican Party is joining the chorus of citizens who have had enough of the establishment. A new political party may no longer be an unorganized fringe but has the potential to bleed off much of the business talent of the Republican Party as well.

Could you cite any evidence that business is abandoning the GOP leadership?

[olde north church]

How long did it take to organize the "Occupy" movement?  Facebook, Twitter, cell phones, a certain presidential candidate's signature lists.  Oh, yeah, dedication to Project.
Why do "Conservatives" moan and await the "Next"?  The next "Reagan" or "Breitbart" or whoever.  They look to Palin, Rush, Levin, Cruz.  They are no less a cult of personality than the Democrats.  The proper whispered word or glance and the hand is going up the dress, to wake the following morning wondering if he will call or dreading pregnancy.
The the candidates are technologically and culturally retarded, writing checks to companies whose employees support the other candidate.  The rank and file are little better.  They don't Facebook because the owner is a leftist.  They don't Tweet.  They don't watch television.  Well, you can curl up with the "Good Book" and a mug of cocoa but Caesar hasn't stopped his requests for renderings.

[Liberal_Spy]

How long did it take to organize the "Occupy" movement? 

It was actually planned quite a bit in advance, but the initial momentum caught on like wildfire, and allowed it to get big quick.

[Bigun]

WOW! I don't know how I missed this thread until now but would like to associate myself with everything AB has said here thus far! Well done sir! Well done indeed! You can't possibly know how impressed I am (not that you would care) with your work here!

I still maintain that a conservative takeover of the republican party from within (already happened here in Texas and if you don't believe that you should read our platform)
would be a FAR easier undertaking than forming a new conservative party.

Rather than attempt writing a treatise here I'm going to go back through this thread post by post and respond point by point.

You can find our current platform - a document I take a great deal of pride in having helped create - at the link below.

http://convention.texasgop.org/

[rb224315]

It was actually planned quite a bit in advance, but the initial momentum caught on like wildfire, and allowed it to get big quick.

Ding, ding, ding!  This is the first time I've heard a liberal admit that it was astroturf.  Pelosi was falling all over herself (IIRC) to say that it was a spontaneous, grassroots effort to try to lend it some credibility.  Anybody could see that it takes money to get that bunch of losers off the couch.

Please strike that last sentence from the record. 

[Bigun]

We stop this "hands off" thing and start voting Republicans who have been in office too long out in the primaries. We replace from within the party and then clean out the people at the RNC.

In Texas today elections take place in the Republican primary for the most part and because of that the RINO's  are being weeded out with great success! Still work to be done but we ARE getting there!

No reason why that cannot be extended to other states and eventually the nation but it can't happen if all we want to do is be "keyboard cowboys"! It will take LOTS of hard work, time, and treasure but it can be done!

[rb224315]

I might disappoint you. :P

If you're like the liberals I know, I fully expect that no amount of reason or logic will change your mind.  While you certainly come off as reasonable in some of these discussions, I hold only a tiny belief (a hope, really) that your presence here is the result of a legitimate, objective search.

If you are engaged in an objective search, may I recommend reading or listening to "The Law" by Bastiat. http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
It is a concise, straightforward discussion of the proper role of government.  If you disagree with him, I think this forum is an excellent place to discuss specific points of disagreement.  The audio book is free. http://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/Education-and-Professional/Law/The-Law/6936

[ABX]

In Texas today elections take place in the Republican primary for the most part and because of that the RINO's  are being weeded out with great success! Still work to be done but we ARE getting there!

No reason why that cannot be extended to other states and eventually the nation but it can't happen if all we want to do is be "keyboard cowboys"! It will take LOTS of hard work, time, and treasure but it can be done!

You are very right on that last part. While there is room for some behind the keyboard activism (and lord knows our side needs to improve in that area), it always comes down to boots on the ground.

[Bigun]

... I also think this money and its use should be heavily monitored.

Which would give great power to the monitor(s) whoever they might be! Sorry! NO SALE!

[Bigun]

Ding, ding, ding!  This is the first time I've heard a liberal admit that it was astroturf.  Pelosi was falling all over herself (IIRC) to say that it was a spontaneous, grassroots effort to try to lend it some credibility.  Anybody could see that it takes money to get that bunch of losers off the couch.

Please strike that last sentence from the record. 

Of course it was astroturf to counter the completely legit and grassroots uprising of the TEA party movement! That is not to say that there have not been attempts (some successful) to infiltrate and undermine some factions within the overall TEA party movement.

[Bigun]

... While there is room for some behind the keyboard activism (and lord knows our side needs to improve in that area), it always comes down to boots on the ground.

The subject of money in politics has been thoroughly discussed already above but I wish to add one more thing to that discussion. I believe that money, in and of itself, is becoming LESS determinative of outcomes in political races rather than more and would site the election of one Ted Cruz as very recent evidence! The reason you see greater and greater amounts of money being thrown around is because 1. the consultants love it! and 2. It isn't working like it used to so they are throwing more and more of it in in order to try to get what they want!

[Liberal_Spy]

Which would give great power to the monitor(s) whoever they might be! Sorry! NO SALE!

What if the monitoring of this money was easily accessible by the public? The spending of the small campaign allowances could be public knowledge. 

[Bigun]

What if the monitoring of this money was easily accessible by the public? The spending of the small campaign allowances could be public knowledge.

Campaign contributions to those seeking federal office already are easily accessible to the public.

If you are talking about public financing of campaigns you are opening up another whole can of worms and I would be unalterably opposed!
 

[Liberal_Spy]

Campaign contributions to those seeking federal office already are easily accessible to the public.

If you are talking about public financing of campaigns you are opening up another whole can of worms and I would be unalterably opposed!

I meant the actual spending of all of the money. The public could have access to and see exactly where and how the candidates were using the money to make sure nothing shady is done. This would remove the need for specific people to monitor the money.

[rb224315]

it can't happen if all we want to do is be "keyboard cowboys"! It will take LOTS of hard work, time, and treasure but it can be done!

I've given this some serious thought over the last year since it was determined that 0bama was reelected in large part because too many Republicans sat home.  I thought there was no way that the base would stay home even if they didn't like Romney.  I believed that opposition to 0bama's policies would be enough to bring out the Republican base.  Obviously, that was not the case.

So, what to do?  I'm a computer nerd so my first inclination is to apply technology to the problem somehow.  This is only useful, however, to the extent that it supports the main activity:  boots on the ground.

My pie-in-the-sky idea is to get voter or party rolls by precinct and have someone (or a group, committee, staff, whatever) in each precinct lead an effort to visit or call every registered Republican.  When the entire base is committed to making good things happen, our ability to reach out is exponentially increased.  Ideally, every person would commit to some specific action.  Not everyone can make a donation but maybe they can make phone calls & read a script.  Perhaps they can pick someone up & drive them to the polls.  As the base gets behind the effort, we should extend the outreach to Independents, Constitution Party members, Libertarians, and others who are looking for a way to be heard.

I enjoy the discussions on boards like this, but they don't get each of us very far toward getting one or two more people to the polls.  Know what's scary?  In at least 1 or 2 swing states, the difference between 0bama and Romney was an average of less than 1 vote per precinct.  I'd certainly pick someone up & drive them to the polls in exchange for a better president.  ;-)

[Bigun]

I've given this some serious thought over the last year since it was determined that 0bama was reelected in large part because too many Republicans sat home.  I thought there was no way that the base would stay home even if they didn't like Romney.  I believed that opposition to 0bama's policies would be enough to bring out the Republican base.  Obviously, that was not the case.

So, what to do?  I'm a computer nerd so my first inclination is to apply technology to the problem somehow.  This is only useful, however, to the extent that it supports the main activity:  boots on the ground.

My pie-in-the-sky idea is to get voter or party rolls by precinct and have someone (or a group, committee, staff, whatever) in each precinct lead an effort to visit or call every registered Republican.  When the entire base is committed to making good things happen, our ability to reach out is exponentially increased.  Ideally, every person would commit to some specific action.  Not everyone can make a donation but maybe they can make phone calls & read a script.  Perhaps they can pick someone up & drive them to the polls.  As the base gets behind the effort, we should extend the outreach to Independents, Constitution Party members, Libertarians, and others who are looking for a way to be heard.

I enjoy the discussions on boards like this, but they don't get each of us very far toward getting one or two more people to the polls.  Know what's scary?  In at least 1 or 2 swing states, the difference between 0bama and Romney was an average of less than 1 vote per precinct.  I'd certainly pick someone up & drive them to the polls in exchange for a better president.  ;-)

Yours is a very thoughtful post and a great addition to the thread!

There is need for people with all manner of talents and you are right when you say that everyone should commit to DOING something!

Conservatives ALL want to get to the same place but instead of working together to get there we tend to spend all our time arguing about which vehicle to ride in for the trip!