Author Topic: Reject This  (Read 2697 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline happyg

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11,822
Reject This
« on: October 15, 2013, 05:25:49 PM »

RESIZE: AAA


The basic framework of the deal Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid have hammered out is coming to light.

The provision the GOP is crowing over — that the Obama Administration will check the income levels of those who receive a subsidy — is already the law. Meanwhile, the GOP will let the rest of the year proceed above sequester level spending, give the unions another carve out of Obamacare, and extend the debt limit to February.

I’m sure at the last minute they’ll also delay the medical device tax so it looks like Harry Reid caved on something. Really, it’ll just be so McConnell’s and Boehner’s staffers on K Street get something out of the deal.

But don’t worry. Karl Rove’s Crossroads group is going to start spending money to protect Mitch McConnell from Matt Bevin in Kentucky.

Ted Cruz was right all along. Americans need House Republicans to fight. Mitch McConnell has no appetite for it. Senate Republicans are openly hoping to blame a debt default on Ted Cruz. They want to blame him for everything. They hate being seen as the capitulators that they are.

Conservatives in the House of Representatives need to stand up and pledge to vote against any rule on this plan. It does not defund Obamacare. It does not delay Obamacare. Heck, it does not even require that Obamacare go into effect as designed with no exemptions, exceptions, or delays. If they won’t defund or delay it, they should at least make it go into effect on schedule, on time, and by design — not with another union carve out.

Extend the debt ceiling so the manufactured nonsense about defaulting goes away, then keep the fight on the continuing resolution about Obamacare.

The RedState contact email is now getting one anti-GOP email for every one anti-Democrat email. That has never happened before. All these polls showing America hates the GOP are accurate. Even Republicans hate the GOP and the GOP might have to learn that the hard way in 2014 primaries.

http://www.redstate.com/2013/10/15/reject-this/

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
Re: Reject This
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 05:28:55 PM »
The party apparatchik have done nothing since 2010 but give the middle finger to the conservative wing of the GOP.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 05:55:25 PM »
Quote
The RedState contact email is now getting one anti-GOP email for every one anti-Democrat email. That has never happened before. All these polls showing America hates the GOP are accurate. Even Republicans hate the GOP and the GOP might have to learn that the hard way in 2014 primaries.

Erickson is no doubt cheering the fact that Fitch just put the US on Credit Watch.  If he thinks the country hates the GOP now, just wait til the markets tank and credit is downgraded.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 05:57:58 PM »
The party apparatchik have done nothing since 2010 but give the middle finger to the conservative wing of the GOP.

Crazy.  You've forgotten all about the sequester cuts, the fact that tax cuts for every American making below $400,000 are now law, gun control failed, and Obama has gotten virtually nothing. 

That's a middle finger?
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 06:29:08 PM »
Erickson is no doubt cheering the fact that Fitch just put the US on Credit Watch.  If he thinks the country hates the GOP now, just wait til the markets tank and credit is downgraded.

Yeah, we should follow the advice of the linguine-spined establishment Republicans because it has worked out so well in the past. 

"The sky is falling!  People don't like the GOP!  We'd better cave to the Democrats or the Democrats will get everything they want!"

Apparently, the establishment types don't see the irony.  We've done nothing but follow such advice since 2006 and look what it has gotten us.  If we constantly capitulate to the Dems, the outcome will be no different than if the government were made up of only Democrats.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 06:36:11 PM »
Yeah, we should follow the advice of the linguine-spined establishment Republicans because it has worked out so well in the past. 

"The sky is falling!  People don't like the GOP!  We'd better cave to the Democrats or the Democrats will get everything they want!"

Apparently, the establishment types don't see the irony.  We've done nothing but follow such advice since 2006 and look what it has gotten us.  If we constantly capitulate to the Dems, the outcome will be no different than if the government were made up of only Democrats.

So your advice is to default on the debt?

Following Ted Cruz has so far proven to be a friggin' disaster; may as well just take the party down into single digits by not raising the debt ceiling.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline Cincinnatus

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5,514
Re: Reject This
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 06:42:07 PM »
Total non-sequitur: So your advice is to default on the debt?

It's comments like that which show he pays no attention to what is actually being proposed but simply pops off with whatever nonsense enters his noggin.

Very much like your customary Liberal.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 07:11:49 PM »
So your advice is to default on the debt?

Another lib talking point.  Treasury has about 10 times as much coming in every month as is required to service our debt and avoid default.  If 0bama chooses to violate the Constitution by not paying our debt obligation, that's his choice.  If he does, the House should immediately file articles of impeachment.

Following Ted Cruz has so far proven to be a friggin' disaster; may as well just take the party down into single digits by not raising the debt ceiling.

Yeah, it has been a real disaster.  0bama's approval numbers are the lowest they've ever been, with the curve sloping downward more steeply since the shutdown began than it did before.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Offline Rapunzel

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 71,719
Re: Reject This
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 07:12:33 PM »
So your advice is to default on the debt?

Following Ted Cruz has so far proven to be a friggin' disaster; may as well just take the party down into single digits by not raising the debt ceiling.

“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 07:41:45 PM »
Another lib talking point.  Treasury has about 10 times as much coming in every month as is required to service our debt and avoid default.  If 0bama chooses to violate the Constitution by not paying our debt obligation, that's his choice.  If he does, the House should immediately file articles of impeachment.

Yeah. That'll fix everything.  Impeachment.  We can't figure out how to fund the debt, but we can sure fire up the base with impeachment.

Quote
Yeah, it has been a real disaster.  0bama's approval numbers are the lowest they've ever been, with the curve sloping downward more steeply since the shutdown began than it did before.

Have you seen the GOP's numbers?  Lowest they've ever been, with the curve sloping downward more steeply since the shutdown began.  And to think the GOP could have the high ground on Obamacare.

Instead, Boehner has to watch the Tea Party congressmen play monkey to the Freedom Works organ grinder.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 07:42:07 PM by sinkspur »
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2013, 08:59:43 AM »
We can't figure out how to fund the debt, but we can sure fire up the base with impeachment.

Read it slowly, again, because it's clear that you missed what I said.  X dollars are required to fund the debt every month.  Treasury has 10x coming in every month.  If the debt is not funded, it is done by the president's choice, and his alone.  He has a Constitutional charge to fund the debt before anything else.  If he does not, he has committed a clear violation of the Constitution, one that even you can see.  This violation should be met with articles of impeachment.


Have you seen the GOP's numbers?  Lowest they've ever been, with the curve sloping downward more steeply since the shutdown began.  And to think the GOP could have the high ground on Obamacare.

There is no high ground on 0bamacare when 0bama, the Dems, and the "moderate" Republicans do everything they can to drag us from the high ground onto the slippery slope toward socialism.

Have you seen the numbers on supporting the revolution of the 1770's?  In July 1776 only 20% of the colonists supported the revolution.  Surely, you don't think both 0bama and King George will at some future time be found on the right side of the issues.

"Damn the torpedos!  Give them everything they want!"
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 09:00:09 AM by rb224315 »
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2013, 09:33:11 AM »
Quote
Have you seen the numbers on supporting the revolution of the 1770's?  In July 1776 only 20% of the colonists supported the revolution.  Surely, you don't think both 0bama and King George will at some future time be found on the right side of the issues.

Unlike King George, Obama was elected by a majority of American voters.  The GOP could have won the Senate, but pissed away their chances on nutburgers like Richard Murdock and Todd Akin.

That you have to go back 250 years for an example shows the paucity of your argument.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2013, 11:14:11 AM »
Unlike King George, Obama was elected by a majority of American voters.  The GOP could have won the Senate, but pissed away their chances on nutburgers like Richard Murdock and Todd Akin.

That you have to go back 250 years for an example shows the paucity of your argument.

I have to go back 250 years to find founding documents as good as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.  Does that mean they suck?  Or, Ms. Ginsburg, should we be looking at other countries' constitutions for better examples?

You want something more current?  How about the much more recent civil rights fight?  In many states a majority of voters supported Jim Crow.  I guess they were right?

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that might makes right, and it's just not so.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2013, 11:20:16 AM »
I have to go back 250 years to find founding documents as good as the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.  Does that mean they suck?  Or, Ms. Ginsburg, should we be looking at other countries' constitutions for better examples?

You want something more current?  How about the much more recent civil rights fight?  In many states a majority of voters supported Jim Crow.  I guess they were right?

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that might makes right, and it's just not so.

You don't even have "right."  The majority of Republicans don't agree with the Tea Party in defaulting on the debt.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2013, 11:23:52 AM »
You don't even have "right."  The majority of Republicans don't agree with the Tea Party in defaulting on the debt.

Ok, now you're making think you're really thick.  Treasury requires a certain amount every month to service the debt.  They have 10 times that amount coming in.  We have more than enough money coming in to avoid default.  There is no reason to default on the debt.

Please, tell me what part of the foregoing paragraph is not clear.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2013, 11:28:09 AM »
Ok, now you're making think you're really thick.  Treasury requires a certain amount every month to service the debt.  They have 10 times that amount coming in.  We have more than enough money coming in to avoid default.  There is no reason to default on the debt.

Please, tell me what part of the foregoing paragraph is not clear.

Your argument is purely academic.   In the case of default, perception is reality.  That's why the GOP is having to pass a Senate bill with mostly Democrat votes.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2013, 11:36:07 AM »
Your argument is purely academic.   In the case of default, perception is reality.  That's why the GOP is having to pass a Senate bill with mostly Democrat votes.

It's not academic.  Default occurs only if the president chooses not to service the debt.  He has 10 times as much money as he needs to do so.  There is no threat of default due to a lack of income.

Do you know what "default" means??  I'll try to simplify it a bit more so maybe you'll understand.  Say I have an income of $2000 per month.  I buy a $5000 vehicle with payments of $200 per month.  A $200 loan from a $2000 income gives me enough money to pay the loan without defaulting.

Your (the Dems') argument is that if the bank doesn't increase my principle to $6000, I'll default.  It's not true.  I only default if I don't make the $200 payment.

0bama has enough money to service the debt.  If there is a default, it will be his choice.  He has 10 times as much money as he needs to avoid it.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 20,371
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Reject This
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2013, 11:40:00 AM »
Your argument is purely academic.   In the case of default, perception is reality.  That's why the GOP is having to pass a Senate bill with mostly Democrat votes.

When the law is on your side, argue the law. When the facts are on your
side, argue the facts. When neither the facts nor the law are on your side,
make an ad hominem attack.

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2013, 11:44:19 AM »
When the law is on your side, argue the law. When the facts are on your
side, argue the facts. When neither the facts nor the law are on your side,
make an ad hominem attack.

So telling someone their argument is academic is an "attack"?

That's the silliest thing I've ever read on this forum, and the competition is legion.
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2013, 11:45:38 AM »
It's not academic.  Default occurs only if the president chooses not to service the debt.  He has 10 times as much money as he needs to do so.  There is no threat of default due to a lack of income.

Do you know what "default" means??  I'll try to simplify it a bit more so maybe you'll understand.  Say I have an income of $2000 per month.  I buy a $5000 vehicle with payments of $200 per month.  A $200 loan from a $2000 income gives me enough money to pay the loan without defaulting.

Your (the Dems') argument is that if the bank doesn't increase my principle to $6000, I'll default.  It's not true.  I only default if I don't make the $200 payment.

0bama has enough money to service the debt.  If there is a default, it will be his choice.  He has 10 times as much money as he needs to avoid it.

Do you think the Fitch credit rating agency knows what default means?  Or do they not get the brilliance of your argument either?
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2013, 11:49:11 AM »
Do you think the Fitch credit rating agency knows what default means?  Or do they not get the brilliance of your argument either?

You didn't answer my question.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 20,371
  • The income tax: Root of all evil!
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Reject This
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2013, 11:57:00 AM »

Offline sinkspur

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 28,599
Re: Reject This
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2013, 12:09:01 PM »
You didn't answer my question.

LOL!!  Of course I know what default means.  But, that's really beside the point now, isn't it?

Now, you answer my question:  Do you think the Fitch credit rating agency knows what default means?
From  "A Shining City on a Hill"

To "A global laughingstock"

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2013, 12:16:14 PM »
Just to clarify, I'm not advocating a scorched earth strategy.  I'm saying that the debt ceiling is an excellent bargaining chip because the president really wants more money and default is only a risk if he chooses to make it one.  If he decides to default he will be in clear violation of the Constitution and will have much bigger problems than worrying about the legacy left by his already-failed presidency. 

Sadly, the establishment Republicans botched the whole thing from the beginning because I just don't think they had any kind of strategy.  They'd like to blame the Tea Party but it's clear that the leadership had no idea what they wanted from one minute to the next.  The debt ceiling could have been used to gain concessions of some kind--any small gain would have been better than what we've gotten--but instead the leadership blew it again.  It's not like they knew this was coming.   

:banghead:
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 12:17:46 PM by rb224315 »
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Offline rb224315

  • Custom Title goes here
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 588
  • Personal Text goes here
Re: Reject This
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2013, 12:17:14 PM »
LOL!!  Of course I know what default means.  But, that's really beside the point now, isn't it?

Now, you answer my question:  Do you think the Fitch credit rating agency knows what default means?

Again you miss the point.  Of course default is bad.  That's clear.  Default happens only if 0bama chooses to let it happen.  There is enough money coming in to service the debt.

Edit:  Again, to clarify, in case you're about to pretend you don't understand what I'm saying.  Fitch and everyone else knows default is bad, but that's not the issue.  We will not be in danger of default unless 0bama chooses not to make debt payments.  We only get to a question of default if 0bama refuses to service the debt.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 12:22:53 PM by rb224315 »
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf