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Offline happyg

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« on: October 15, 2013, 09:51:33 AM »

Offline PzLdr

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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 11:15:18 AM »
Ya think, Sean?  :whistle:
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Online Bigun

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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 11:19:20 AM »
A third party would guarantee Democrat rule for a generation!

What needs to happen is the completion of the conservative takeover of the Republican party already well underway!

Online andy58-in-nh

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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 11:53:57 AM »
A third party would guarantee Democrat rule for a generation!

What needs to happen is the completion of the conservative takeover of the Republican party already well underway!

 :thumbsup:

Right on. Third parties fail, and only ensure the success of their worst enemies. Kick the Progressives out, along with their enablers and consultants.

Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 12:02:48 PM »
:thumbsup:

Right on. Third parties fail, and only ensure the success of their worst enemies. Kick the Progressives out, along with their enablers and consultants.

Yeah.  Start kicking people out of the Republican Party.

THAT will work!!  LOL!!
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline PzLdr

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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 12:08:56 PM »
A third party would guarantee Democrat rule for a generation!

What needs to happen is the completion of the conservative takeover of the Republican party already well underway!

I'm pretty sure that's what they said about Republicans in the Whig Party back in the day. The GOP became Dims Lite with the advent of Ironside in '32. Don't believe me? Look at your Presidential nominees. Wilkie, Dewey, Ike, Milhouse, Goldwater [knifed in the back by Rockerfeller and the GOPe], Jerry Ford , Reagan [the only exception], H.W Bush, Dole, 'W' , McLame and Romney.

"Already underway"? Seen the knives out for Cruz and Lee? Looks like the Roman Senate, @ March 15th, 44BC.  Me, I'm 67. I'm not going to be here to see this takeover. And I don't think kids born today will, either. Leave the GOPe now, watch it merge with it's natural herd [Jackasses], and build on the rest. 'Cause even if you take over, the GOPe is NEVER going to vote for you. Too many oarts of our natural base give them aggita.  :shrug:
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Online Bigun

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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2013, 12:13:21 PM »
I'm pretty sure that's what they said about Republicans in the Whig Party back in the day. The GOP became Dims Lite with the advent of Ironside in '32. Don't believe me? Look at your Presidential nominees. Wilkie, Dewey, Ike, Milhouse, Goldwater [knifed in the back by Rockerfeller and the GOPe], Jerry Ford , Reagan [the only exception], H.W Bush, Dole, 'W' , McLame and Romney.

"Already underway"? Seen the knives out for Cruz and Lee? Looks like the Roman Senate, @ March 15th, 44BC.  Me, I'm 67. I'm not going to be here to see this takeover. And I don't think kids born today will, either. Leave the GOPe now, watch it merge with it's natural herd [Jackasses], and build on the rest. 'Cause even if you take over, the GOPe is NEVER going to vote for you. Too many oarts of our natural base give them aggita.  :shrug:

Yeah I've seen the knives out for Cruz and Lee and both are more popular with grassroots republicans than anyone else in the party despite what the media is trying to sell you!

Online andy58-in-nh

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« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2013, 01:42:48 PM »
Yeah.  Start kicking people out of the Republican Party.

THAT will work!!  LOL!!

Yes, I think it will. The Progressives and the collectivist enablers need to go. I really don't care how - their ideology is the poison destroying my country.

The GOP is either a conservative, free-market individualist party, or it is nothing. America doesn't need or deserve two Progressive parties as it has long been on the verge of obtaining. 

If you want to attract new converts to your cause, you have to preach what you believe to be the truth, and truly believe it.

So yes: let's kick out our latter-day Rockefellers and Romneys (George, that is).  They will never, ever, ever stand up to the Marxist revolutionaries and their enablers who now control the Democrat party. They don't think it's worth fighting over, or for. 

They don't think anything is worth fighting for. Except their own jobs, of course.

So let them walk. Or boot 'em.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2013, 01:47:40 PM »
Yes, I think it will. The Progressives and the collectivist enablers need to go. I really don't care how - their ideology is the poison destroying my country.

The GOP is either a conservative, free-market individualist party, or it is nothing. America doesn't need or deserve two Progressive parties as it has long been on the verge of obtaining. 

If you want to attract new converts to your cause, you have to preach what you believe to be the truth, and truly believe it.

So yes: let's kick out our latter-day Rockefellers and Romneys (George, that is).  They will never, ever, ever stand up to the Marxist revolutionaries and their enablers who now control the Democrat party. They don't think it's worth fighting over, or for. 

They don't think anything is worth fighting for. Except their own jobs, of course.

So let them walk. Or boot 'em.

Just how do you propose to do that since, last I looked, you're not in charge?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online andy58-in-nh

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« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2013, 02:02:10 PM »
Just how do you propose to do that since, last I looked, you're not in charge?

There is a rather sizable group of people who used to send money to the GOP committees (e.g. - NRSC, RNC) and/or PAC's every year. We have stopped. Cold.

They keep mailing fundraising letters, and they keep coming back with $0 donations and blunt messages written in the margins: stand for nothing, get nothing. 

We are sending our money and donating our support to individual candidates who reflect our values and our beliefs. The Surrender Party establishment and its consultants know it, and they are scared.

They had better figure it out, and soon: stand for nothing, win nothing.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline Cincinnatus

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« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2013, 02:16:22 PM »
I am not sure this is fair, Andy58-in-nh; stand for nothing, win nothing.

I feel they do stand for something: "Me too! Me too! Me too!"
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Online andy58-in-nh

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« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2013, 02:30:31 PM »
I am not sure this is fair, Andy58-in-nh; stand for nothing, win nothing.

I feel they do stand for something: "Me too! Me too! Me too!"

Fair point, then.  :beer:

Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2013, 02:36:38 PM »
There is a rather sizable group of people who used to send money to the GOP committees (e.g. - NRSC, RNC) and/or PAC's every year. We have stopped. Cold.

They keep mailing fundraising letters, and they keep coming back with $0 donations and blunt messages written in the margins: stand for nothing, get nothing. 

We are sending our money and donating our support to individual candidates who reflect our values and our beliefs. The Surrender Party establishment and its consultants know it, and they are scared.

They had better figure it out, and soon: stand for nothing, win nothing.

Fine.  Don't send money.  The Supreme Court is on the verge of approving unlimited donations by individuals to organizations like the RNC. 

It appears to me you're not kicking anybody out of anything; rather, you're hoping your donations are missed.

What about those who stand for something, and win nothing?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online andy58-in-nh

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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2013, 03:14:48 PM »
Fine.  Don't send money.  The Supreme Court is on the verge of approving unlimited donations by individuals to organizations like the RNC. 

It appears to me you're not kicking anybody out of anything; rather, you're hoping your donations are missed.

What about those who stand for something, and win nothing?

No one is giving the RNC any money, whether such donations are legally unlimited or not.

We're not going to work the phones or knock on doors any more. I know dozens of people who have done this every election year (like me) and we are agreed - no more.

Many of us have already re-registered as Independents.

We're not going to enable people who once in office abandon all pretense of principle, and then vote themselves exemptions from the shit they dump on the rest of us.

Try winning elections without ground troops and see where that gets you. Let Karl Rove make your campaign canvass calls and have Steve Schmidt go knock on doors.

Or... GOP: you can grow some f***ing balls and stand up to punks like Obama and call them out for what they are: radical Marxist revolutionaries who are trying to remake America by means with which no one who still cares about freedom must ever compromise.

If there had been no slowdown, do you know what we'd be talking about now? Obama's scandals? The problems with ObamaCare? Bull Crap. The news media would continue to bury any narrative not favorable to Obama. We'd be talking about how unfair the sequester is. By how much to increase federal spending this year.  How much in new taxes are going to be required, and how the rich still aren't paying their fair share. Same-o same-o.

Because that's how Progressives win - by controlling the social institutions and the dialogue and also, by using their adversaries' own virtue against them  - compromise is gooooood It's what reasonable people do.... Unless you're one of those Anarchist Tea Partiers....

But Progressives are not reasonable, or good.

And no good ever comes from compromising with evil.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline happyg

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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 03:26:42 PM »
Quote
No one is giving the RNC any money, whether such donations are legally unlimited or not.

We're not going to work the phones or knock on doors any more. I know dozens of people who have done this every election year (like me) and we are agreed - no more.

I was getting up to 15 calls a day from republicans asking for donations. They are finally slowing down. I guess they got the hint. I have friends who voted for Obama the first time, Romney the second time, and now, they support Cruz, Lee, and Rand. Things are changing, and not always for the worst.

Offline rb224315

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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 03:35:05 PM »
Yeah.  Start kicking people out of the Republican Party.

THAT will work!!  LOL!!

As is often the case, you've missed the point entirely.  The Republican party as presently constituted has, by default, "kicked out" anyone with conservative principles.  No, they didn't send out letters or revoke membership cards, but they may as well have.  If the party I vote for does not represent my interests because they're too busy giving the Dems what they want, they may as well have kicked me out.

And no good ever comes from compromising with evil.

Absolutely right, and yet TPTB in the Republican party are always willing to kick the can down the road a bit farther.  The Republican leadership basically says "we'll get something out of the next negotiations, you watch."  Yeah, right.  Keep waiting.  0bama is playing you guys like a fiddle.
rb224315:  just another "Creepy-ass Cracka".

Online Bigun

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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2013, 03:35:35 PM »
I was getting up to 15 calls a day from republicans asking for donations. They are finally slowing down. I guess they got the hint. I have friends who voted for Obama the first time, Romney the second time, and now, they support Cruz, Lee, and Rand. Things are changing, and not always for the worst.

I just got another one about 10 minutes ago. It lasted less than a minute.

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2013, 04:02:38 PM »
No one is giving the RNC any money, whether such donations are legally unlimited or not.

We're not going to work the phones or knock on doors any more. I know dozens of people who have done this every election year (like me) and we are agreed - no more.

Many of us have already re-registered as Independents.

We're not going to enable people who once in office abandon all pretense of principle, and then vote themselves exemptions from the shit they dump on the rest of us.

Try winning elections without ground troops and see where that gets you. Let Karl Rove make your campaign canvass calls and have Steve Schmidt go knock on doors.

Or... GOP: you can grow some f***ing balls and stand up to punks like Obama and call them out for what they are: radical Marxist revolutionaries who are trying to remake America by means with which no one who still cares about freedom must ever compromise.

If there had been no slowdown, do you know what we'd be talking about now? Obama's scandals? The problems with ObamaCare? Bull Crap. The news media would continue to bury any narrative not favorable to Obama. We'd be talking about how unfair the sequester is. By how much to increase federal spending this year.  How much in new taxes are going to be required, and how the rich still aren't paying their fair share. Same-o same-o.

Because that's how Progressives win - by controlling the social institutions and the dialogue and also, by using their adversaries' own virtue against them  - compromise is gooooood It's what reasonable people do.... Unless you're one of those Anarchist Tea Partiers....

But Progressives are not reasonable, or good.

And no good ever comes from compromising with evil.

Well, with your attitude, you might get revenge on the Republican Party by withholding money and your vote, and that might make you feel good at night, but no candidate who appeals to the narrow spectrum you belong to will ever get elected.  EVER.  You remind me of the Ron Paul supporters who never compromised on anything either.

I disagree completely that Obamacare wouldn't be THE major issue dominating the news if there were no shutdown.  When you have libs like Ezra Klein trashing it, you know there's a major problem.

Progressives win, when they win, because they make people FEEL better.  Remember this:  people will forget what you say, they'll forget what you do, but they'll never forget how you make them feel.  Ronald Reagan made people feel better about the country and about themselves;  George W. Bush had a sunny disposition and made people feel good. 

Look at Pope Francis and how he makes people feel so good about God, even while he's being trashed by die-hard traditionalists because he's playing down doctrinal issues.

People are not going to follow a scold.  They never have and they never will.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2013, 05:04:02 PM »
Our money is small potatoes, however the big money is holding out on the GOP. It's angry that Rove blew a half billion of their dollars last year for nothing. 

Online andy58-in-nh

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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2013, 05:32:01 PM »

People are not going to follow a scold.  They never have and they never will.

Name a bigger "scold" than Barack Obama. Okay: Michael Bloomberg. Both Progressives. Both interminable asses in love with themselves.

People follow Obama because he promises them free stuff, provided at others' expense.

Reagan appealed to people of good character by sharing their decency and love of country. Obama appeals to people of poor character by manipulating their envy and resentments.

Success in politics is not about how you make people feel. It's about who you choose to appeal to, and how well you appeal to their essential nature. 

If you think honest, hard-working people who desire liberty, limited government and free enterprise are a "narrow" American constituency, you don't live anywhere near me.

We don't want or need big government. We want people willing to defend the Constitution, as unpopular as it is today in Washington, DC.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2013, 05:32:16 PM »
Our money is small potatoes, however the big money is holding out on the GOP. It's angry that Rove blew a half billion of their dollars last year for nothing.

What evidence do you have of that, or are you just making stuff up? 

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2013, 05:46:52 PM »
Name a bigger "scold" than Barack Obama. Okay: Michael Bloomberg. Both Progressives. Both interminable asses in love with themselves.

People follow Obama because he promises them free stuff, provided at others' expense.

Reagan appealed to people of good character by sharing their decency and love of country. Obama appeals to people of poor character by manipulating their envy and resentments.

Success in politics is not about how you make people feel. It's about who you choose to appeal to, and how well you appeal to their essential nature. 

If you think honest, hard-working people who desire liberty, limited government and free enterprise are a "narrow" American constituency, you don't live anywhere near me.

We don't want or need big government. We want people willing to defend the Constitution, as unpopular as it is today in Washington, DC.

Romney lost the election when that video came out of him trashing half of America he described as "takers."  People are not going to vote for someone who thinks they're crap.

I contend that politics IS about good feelings.  Reagan made people feel good after the disaster of Jimmy Carter.  He won again when Walter Mondale tried to dampen the good feelings of the Reagan recovery by promising to raise taxes.

Do you honestly believe that Ted Cruz would appeal to a broad-enough cross-section to win a national election?  He's got all the appeal of Sarah Palin.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2013, 05:59:07 PM »

Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2013, 06:02:23 PM »
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012/11/11/Karl-Roves-efforts-go-down-in-flames/UPI-74831352631660/#ixzz2hpYCn6uy

Karl Rove's efforts go down in flames
Nov. 11, 2012  |  6:01 AM


Republican strategist Karl Rove was the big loser in the 2012 election cycle,
spending hundreds of millions of dollars yet failing to deliver the GOP president and Republican Senate majority he promised. 2007 file photo. (UPI Photo/Stefan Zaklin/POOL).

WASHINGTON, Nov. 11 (UPI) -- The real loser last week on Election Day appears to be Karl Rove, who now has to explain to his shadowy billionaire donors how he spent hundreds of millions of dollars in "independent" expenditures on Mitt Romney's behalf and came up a cropper.

Two groups associated with Rove and fellow Republican operative Ed Gillespie spent more than $175 million in 2012 alone to promote Romney and other conservative candidates, OpenSecrets.org reported.

If a wave of Republicans, particularly Romney, had been elected, Rove would have been seen as a GOP hero and a major voice in the party for years to come. Instead, political watchdogs report, his high-flying efforts went down in flames.

The OpenSecrets blog, part of the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics operating out of Washington, called Rove's American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS the "heavy hitters" of about 245 outside spenders.

The Center for Public Integrity, an investigative journalism non-profit operating out of Washington, said last week more than $1 billion was spent by outside groups by Election Day.

"Of all outside spending in the 2012 election, more than $450 million was dedicated to the presidential election with more than $350 million spent helping Romney and about $100 million spent to help President Barack Obama," the center reported on its website.

All this lavish outside spending is possible, of course, because of the 2010 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission. The 5-4 ruling lifted restrictions on corporate and union donors for "independent electioneering expenditures."

Two months later, using the principles outlined in Citizens United, a federal appeals court in Washington ruled in Speechnow.org vs. FEC that PACs, or political action committees, that did not make direct campaign contributions or donate to other PACs could accept unlimited contributions from corporations, unions and individuals.

Theoretically, outside donors were not supposed to coordinate their spending with political campaigns, who had to operate using direct contributions subject to regulation by the Federal Election Commission. And though unions were included in the ruling, their efforts have been swamped by corporate executives contributing money from corporate treasuries to super PACS and to secretive 501(c)(4) organizations -- named for the section of the Tax Code that allows their existence.

American Crossroads is a super PAC. But Crossroads GPS (Grassroots Policy Strategies) is a non-profit 501(c)(4) organization that doesn't have to report contributions or contributors to the FEC, unlike super PACS or the individual campaigns.

These 501(c)(4) groups are supposed to be "civic leagues or organizations not organized for profit but operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare," Tax Code regulations say, "or local associations of employees, the membership of which is limited to the employees of a designated person or persons in a particular municipality, and the net earnings of which are devoted exclusively to charitable, educational or recreational purposes."

Crossroads GPS has 100 donors, all of them secret.

Among others, Crossroads GPS sponsored anti-Obama ads and robo-calls by Clint Eastwood.

The New York Times said their secrecy allows corporations to donate money to 501(c)(4) groups like Crossroads GPS while "shielding corporate contributors from shareholders or others unhappy with their political positions."

The two Rove groups have been active since Citizens United was handed down at the Supreme Court. The Center for Responsive Politics reported the two groups raised $123 million from 2010 through the end of 2011, but the lion's share, $76.8 million, went to the non-profit.

This year, the super PAC American Crossroads made more than $104.7 million in "independent expenditures." The non-profit inscrutable Crossroads GPS laid out nearly $71 million in post-Citizen United spending.

But the Sunlight Foundation, a non-profit designed to promote political funding transparency, said the Rove organizations did not get much bang for the bucks, to say the least.

Of the nearly $103.6 million spent in the general election by American Crossroads, only 1.29 percent "ended in the desired result," a Sunlight report said. The organization supported no winning candidates.

For Grassroots GPS, the figures are somewhat better.

About 14.4 percent of the non-profit's nearly $71 million spent in the 2012 general election "ended in the desired result," Sunlight reported. None of the candidates supported by the organization won election. The 14.4 percent went to successfully defeating seven candidates.

The results were so miserable that instead of presiding over a triumphant Election Night, Rove squabbled on air with Fox News over the network's calling, correctly, Ohio and the election for President Obama. And now that his efforts have proved so futile, Rove's political enemies are moving in, circling like leopards around an injured water buffalo.

Major media carried a number of stories last week celebrating Rove's at least temporary political demise.

U.S. Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., mocked Rove Thursday for his failure to deliver both a promised Senate majority and the White House to Republicans, Politico reported.

Schumer told reporters at a Christian Science Monitor breakfast: "Karl Rove's reputation is going to take a significant hit. If Crossroads was the business and Karl Rove was the [chief executive officer], he'd be fired for getting a poor return for his investors."

Post-election, Rove had argued that his super PAC and 501 group helped hold down Obama's vote in crucial swing states -- even though they didn't deliver those states to Romney.

"I'm sure he went to [big conservative donors] Sheldon Adelson and to Harold Simmons and said, 'Put up these millions and [Obama will] win, but we'll decrease his margin,'" Schumer scoffed.

However, Rove may have a point. The Washington Post points out that Obama victory margins in 10 key states were slim.

In contrast to the Rove groups, Sunlight reported, the Republican and Democratic congressional committees had far more success, though in a negative way.

The Republican committee spent more than $64.65 million, of which 31.63 percent "ended in the desired result." The committee supported only one winning candidate, but successfully opposed 17 losing candidates.

The Democratic group spent more than $61.74 million, of which 39.17 percent "ended in the desired result." The group supported two successful candidates, and successfully opposed 28 losing candidates.

Another conservative potentate who may be licking his wounds post-Election Day is Adelson, chief executive of the Las Vegas Sands Corp. and, according to Forbes, the 12th richest American.

"Money can't buy happiness, nor can it buy an election, apparently," the Center for Public Integrity reported on its website. Adelson was the No. 1 super PAC contributor with more than $53 million and a direct beneficiary of the Speechnow.org ruling in Washington.

But he apparently backed a flotilla of losers.

Adelson was the top donor to the pro-Romney Restore Our Future super PAC, with $20 million in contributions, the center said. Sources told the New York Times in June Adelson had committed to contributing $10 million to Rove's secretive Grassroots GPS, but since that group does not have to report to the FEC, no one may ever know.

Besides Romney, the Jewish-American casino magnate backed losing candidates Connie Mack for the U.S. Senate from Florida, Allen West for the U.S. House from Florida, Joe Kyrillos for the U.S. Senate from New Jersey, Shmuley Boteach for the U.S. House from New Jersey, Newt Gingrich in the GOP presidential primary and David Dewhurst in the Republican primary for U.S. Senate from Texas.

Adelson, along with homebuilder Bob Perry, collectively contributed $2.5 million to Independence Virginia, the super PAC backing former Republican U.S. Sen. George Allen. But Allen's opponent, former Democratic Gov. Tim Kaine, won the Virginia seat with 52 percent of the vote.




Offline sinkspur

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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2013, 06:07:07 PM »
The DNC is cash poor too.  It's an off year.  Money doesn't move until next year.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.


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