Author Topic: I'd like your input on an article I found.  (Read 3307 times)

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Liberal_Spy

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I'd like your input on an article I found.
« on: October 14, 2013, 11:25:05 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mansur-gidfar/this-is-the-supreme-court_b_4086269.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Again I'm not going to take a stance here. Pick apart the article and tell me your opinions.

Online mystery-ak

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2013, 11:46:31 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mansur-gidfar/this-is-the-supreme-court_b_4086269.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Again I'm not going to take a stance here. Pick apart the article and tell me your opinions.

Why are you so interested in our opinions?....are you writing a thesis or are you a writer for some lib publication?....be honest!

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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2013, 11:47:50 AM »
Why are you so interested in our opinions?....are you writing a thesis or are you a writer for some lib publication?....be honest!

I think the time for 'being honest' has long passed...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2013, 11:53:17 AM »
Why are you so interested in our opinions?....are you writing a thesis or are you a writer for some lib publication?....be honest!

I'm interested in your opinions because finding common ground between left and right is (in my opinion) the only way to stop the government from completely destroying our freedoms. I think the horrible, giant schism between the left and right is intentional and perpetuated by the government to keep people more worried about screaming at each other than focusing on the real problem. I like to post things and put ideas out there for you guys to comment on, and then I can go through the posts and connect all the dots in the places we agree and have common ground. I thought my non-hostile presence might make some conservatives realize I and people like me are really not that bad.

Offline Olivia

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2013, 12:00:32 PM »
I had to almost read the entire article before it became obvious the writer is targeting conservative donors.
No mention of George Soros, the Saudis or any of the other "outside" millions that flow into our democrat's coffers.
I suppose these donors must be powerful, though.  Pulling the strings of Ted Cruz to shut down the government would have been no easy feat.  :silly:

Just another conservative bashing article from some over imaginative author as far as I'm concerned.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 12:01:26 PM by Olivia »
Truthfully, the most important thing in life is knowing what the most important things in life are, and prioritizing them accordingly.   Melchor Lim

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2013, 12:01:52 PM »
Blatantly wrong on its surface, historically, and on principle. (I'll go through all when I have time). This one thing though, really jumps out to me. The author complains:

Quote
Elected officials increasingly feel accountable to a vanishingly small percentage of the population....

What he doesn't get is this is exactly how a representative democracy (ie Republic) is supposed to work. Representatives are supposed to represent their constituents who elected them, not a political party.  That has been one of the problems up until now, following the party instead of what is right.  The House of Representatives is doing its exactly defined job, both to the letter of the law as well as the spirit behind it. All bills of revenue are supposed to originate in the House with the Senate only given the power to offer amendments and vote on it.

The reasoning for this, as outlined in the Federalist Papers, is completely rational- it keeps the power of the purse strings of the government closest to the people and provides one last 'check' for actions of the government. The House is re-elected every two years, so they are most accountable to the people. If the people don't like the direction that the government is going on something, they have a two year reset button (versus 4 years for the President or 6 years for the Senate) via financing.

The President likes to throw around 'he was re-elected' but so was the House.

Another factual error in all this is that this has anything to do with the Citizen's United case. It is commonplace on both sides to blame things like this when stuff doesn't go your way, but in reality, it has the least impact on the House of whom, are elected closest to the people. It also doesn't explain that there have been 16 shutdowns prior to Citizen's United.

One other factual issue in this that is over-looked is the Senate's roadblock of almost all the bills that are coming from the House. One man, Harry Reid is taking unprecedented, unilateral action over the past few years, but especially during this shut-down and tabling almost every bill that comes from the House. The result of this is the bills never come up for a vote. There is no chance for the Senate to give their official say as to the spending bills. The House has passed over 30 compromise bills and the Senate has been allowed to vote on 2 of those. 

Not only on these spending bills, Reid has done this to every budget passed by the House in the past 7 years. He won't allow a single budget to come to vote so instead of having a budget to work from, they have to constantly pass CRs and raise the debt ceiling. 

If you want to look at where the real problem is in all this, it is Harry Reid. (even more so than President Obama). 

Online mystery-ak

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2013, 12:02:19 PM »
Being here a few days and reading threads and posts I would think you would pretty much know what our opinions would be..most of us are conservatives and are involved in *group think*....we are like lemmings who will follow our grand leader {Palin, Cruz, Lee} off the cliff..../s


...I still think you are not being honest and are up to something....and would appreciate honesty....just not buying it!!!

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Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2013, 12:03:47 PM »
I had to almost read the entire article before it became obvious the writer is targeting conservative donors.
No mention of George Soros, the Saudis or any of the other "outside" millions that flow into our democrat's coffers.


I agree with what you are saying here. I personally think none of our politicians should be influenced by millionaires and rich special interests. They are there to serve the interests of the people that voted for them to be there. I think people running for office should have an equal chance to exposure, and shouldn't have to rely on multi-million dollar smear campaigns designed to manipulate voters. If you are honest, and your message is good, you shouldn't need to do things like that.

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2013, 12:07:09 PM »
...I still think you are not being honest and are up to something....and would appreciate honesty....just not buying it!!!

I really don't know what to say. There is no ulterior motive to me posting here other than trying to spark conversation. What do you believe my motives are/might be/could be?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2013, 12:09:47 PM »
I have friends who are Obama supporters, but we just don't discus politics anymore.  There  is a huge schism between left and right,  So far you've been more. polite than some who claim to be Republicans, what I've seen so far is you've been taught to look at surface reasons for why we're in a mess instead of looking to what has caused it.    I think you could learn here, but you have to be willing to learn and grow intellectually.  Liberals think of themselves as being intellectually superior to conservatives, but that's another fallacy perpetuated by the media.  Speaking of media do you approve... as a  vet.. and a citizen .. of how they ignored what really took place in DC yesterday?

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2013, 12:12:10 PM »
A bit of a nerdy way of looking at it too.

Between 1976 until 2009 there were 16 government shutdowns- averaging one every two years (although they did come every two years, just an average).

Between 2010 until now, there has been only one (1 in 3 years).

So the pattern is fewer since Citizens United.

Online mystery-ak

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2013, 12:12:12 PM »
I really don't know what to say. There is no ulterior motive to me posting here other than trying to spark conversation. What do you believe my motives are/might be/could be?

One motive is that you are writing something for some Lib publication or a thesis for some degree.....I just don't think a person would go to all this trouble without an ulterior motive..as you said.

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Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2013, 12:12:47 PM »
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Online mystery-ak

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2013, 12:14:17 PM »
I really don't know what to say. There is no ulterior motive to me posting here other than trying to spark conversation. What do you believe my motives are/might be/could be?

Another motive is that you are fascinated with Citizens United and the Koch Bros...I have noticed that in your posts and when you came into chat...

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Online mystery-ak

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2013, 12:15:33 PM »
Thank you andy.... :thud:

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Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2013, 12:16:24 PM »
Speaking of media do you approve... as a  vet.. and a citizen .. of how they ignored what really took place in DC yesterday?

I'm always disappointed with the lack of coverage and attention the main stream media gives to rallies and events that might make the government look bad.

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2013, 12:18:39 PM »
Why should corporations and conservative organizations be able to contribute to political candidates?
Here's what they are up against:

MAIN FUNDERS OF THE LEFT


Would you support removing the big funding from both political parties? Everybody keeps saying "Citizens United is okay because the left does it too. They have tons of money they get from special interests and rich members of the left wing", but what I propose is not letting ANY of these guys pump their millions into politics, regardless of their political affiliation.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 12:19:57 PM by Liberal_Spy »

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 12:21:35 PM »
Another motive is that you are fascinated with Citizens United and the Koch Bros...I have noticed that in your posts and when you came into chat...

I have a huge problem with how much money corrupts and influences politics on both sides of the fence.

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 12:24:54 PM »
One motive is that you are writing something for some Lib publication or a thesis for some degree.....I just don't think a person would go to all this trouble without an ulterior motive..as you said.

Would it make a difference to you if either of those things were true? Hypothetically, would you care?

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2013, 12:24:56 PM »
I agree with what you are saying here. I personally think none of our politicians should be influenced by millionaires and rich special interests. They are there to serve the interests of the people that voted for them to be there. I think people running for office should have an equal chance to exposure, and shouldn't have to rely on multi-million dollar smear campaigns designed to manipulate voters. If you are honest, and your message is good, you shouldn't need to do things like that.


Yet in post after post you blame Citizens United and s VERY constitutional ruling and as Olivia noted ignore the really big money which comes from Soros and the hundreds of smaller groups he funds ... including every major university journalism school. He funds moveon.org, media matters, Think Progress, Tides, Emiie's List..and many more.  You ignore the billions that pours into the Democrats from Hollywood plus the movie an television shows which push their liberal agendas... you ignore the millions they receive from hundreds of environmental groups, you ignore unions and the billions they take out of union dues and billions from our taxes and then turn around and use to 're elect the people they know will keep sending them even more of our tax dollars. 

Let me ask you a question... not that you will answer of course... do you know who started and funds the SOS project.

Online truth_seeker

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2013, 12:27:50 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mansur-gidfar/this-is-the-supreme-court_b_4086269.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Again I'm not going to take a stance here. Pick apart the article and tell me your opinions.
Plainly and simply: The article suggests that Citizens United is wrong, and that privaate political free speech funding is wrong, but fails to mention the VAST sums collected, sometimes without consent, from liberal, public employee organizations.

From the lowest elected positions for school board, city council, planning commissions and up, government employee unions are HUGE sources of campaign money.

Do a little honest research and you'll confirm that. If they can pool their huge resources, so can others.

So it is your turn, to convince us that 500 or 500,000 government employees should be able to donate millions to democrats, but not businessmen and women.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2013, 12:28:13 PM »
Would you support removing the big funding from both political parties? Everybody keeps saying "Citizens United is okay because the left does it too. They have tons of money they get from special interests and rich members of the left wing", but what I propose is not letting ANY of these guys pump their millions into politics, regardless of their political affiliation.

Let me give you a different way to look at things. You would agree that you have the right to petition the government with your grievances and have the freedom of political speech, correct? What if you and your neighbor feel passionately on an issue, should you have the right to ban together to petition?  What about you and ten other people, or a hundred, or a thousand?

All of these groups (on both sides) are just citizens rallying together in cooperation (corporation) around a cause. Be it the NRA, NARAL, Move On, National Right to Life, etc. They are groups of citizens coming together.

People will, always complain when a group they don't like gets so large they influence in a direction one doesn't like, but the solution isn't to restrict freedom of association. Usually these complaints come from politicians who don't like their power challenged.

Yes, there are many problems that should be addressed. Foreign money influencing elections, money coming from other questionable sources, money not going where the donors want but not having a choice (see Union dues for example).

Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2013, 12:31:27 PM »

Let me ask you a question... not that you will answer of course... do you know who started and funds the SOS project.

I know it was co-founded by Becky Bond, Michael Kieschnick and James Rucker.

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2013, 12:32:19 PM »
Would it make a difference to you if either of those things were true? Hypothetically, would you care?

Probably not..but to be determined....I would of course appreciate you finally being honest with me.....hypothetically of course!

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Liberal_Spy

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Re: I'd like your input on an article I found.
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2013, 12:32:45 PM »
Plainly and simply: The article suggests that Citizens United is wrong, and that privaate political free speech funding is wrong, but fails to mention the VAST sums collected, sometimes without consent, from liberal, public employee organizations.

From the lowest elected positions for school board, city council, planning commissions and up, government employee unions are HUGE sources of campaign money.

Do a little honest research and you'll confirm that. If they can pool their huge resources, so can others.

So it is your turn, to convince us that 500 or 500,000 government employees should be able to donate millions to democrats, but not businessmen and women.

I've mentioned numerous times that I support the removal of all big money investments into political parties.


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