Obama accuses GOP of 'ideological crusade' on healthcare, shutdown

[musiclady]

People who refer to Obamacare simply as "the law" and think we should sit idly by and do nothing about something that's ALREADY destroying our health care system (not to mention our economy), making Drs retire and costing everyone an arm and a leg, are forgetting that there have been other BAD laws that we have gotten rid of.

Obamacare is a DISASTER, and those mocking Ted Cruz for standing up against it do not understand how bad it really is.

I, for one, am thankful that there are a few Senators with the backbone to stand up against this hideous law.

[Rapunzel]

Same here, ML.

[truth_seeker]

I take it the few of you pushing this actually think a single payer is good... trust me... it IS NOT.

Somebody is "pushing this" because they disagree with you over tactics?

[Rapunzel]

Somebody is "pushing this" because they disagree with you over tactics?

Like I said, you are satisfied to see us morph into a single payer socialist healthcare system and have every aspect of our lives controlled by Michelle O and her buddies.

[Oceander]

I don't think the Republicans will lose the House, but they could very well be blowing their chance at taking the Senate. 

But that doesn't matter to the Tea Party.  NOW is all they care about.  For some reason Ted Cruz and his followers think they can force Obama to gut the only achievement of his presidency.

Hmmm, obeisance and currying favor do oh so much more to advance one's long-term objectives.

[sinkspur]

Like I said, you are satisfied to see us morph into a single payer socialist healthcare system and have every aspect of our lives controlled by Michelle O and her buddies.

So how do we stop it?  How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?

There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.

How do we stop it?

[musiclady]

Somebody is "pushing this" because they disagree with you over tactics?

If you strongly oppose Obamacare and its follower, the single payer system, what do you personally recommend that Senators and Congressmen do to prevent or stop it?

Since you think very little of Ted Cruz and his stand against this monstrosity, I'm curious as to what you think should be done to save the country from the total destruction that will result from this bill's full implementation.

[sinkspur]

Hmmm, obeisance and currying favor do oh so much more to advance one's long-term objectives.

And hoping that Obama will decide to gut his signature achievement does so much more to advance one's long-term objectives.

[musiclady]

So how do we stop it?  How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?

There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.

How do we stop it?

That's what I'd like you to answer.

If opposing it in Congress, as the American people want, is not what you desire, what is?

Just let it destroy our healthcare system and economy?

What's your solution, sinkspur?

[Rapunzel]

So how do we stop it?  How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?

There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.

How do we stop it?

You do not stop it by tearing down the people who are trying to actually DO something.  You stop it by standing behind the GOP and having their back in this fight for starters. 

[Oceander]

So how do we stop it?  How do we stop the implementation of Obamacare when the man it's named after can veto any attempt to stop it?

There's no pixie dust in real life, or a vain hope that people will, all of a sudden, decide to storm the White House and demand the Obamacare be repealed.

How do we stop it?

Two ways:  either outright repealing it, or starving it of money.  Obama can veto a bill that affirmatively purports to repeal Obastardcare, and look good for it; if he continually vetoes bills just because they don't contain funding for this obamination, he doesn't look so good, in fact, he looks like an obstructionist.  Therefore, at this point in time defunding may actually be a better strategy than doing nothing - sitting on the sidelines, with your hands under your thighs, and whispering longingly of that day in the far-off future when you'll finally, finally, have the votes and the President needed to repeal Obastardcare, but in the meantime you're not going to lift a finger to do anything about the implementation of it.

How're your hands feeling under your thighs?

[sinkspur]

That's what I'd like you to answer.

If opposing it in Congress, as the American people want, is not what you desire, what is?

Just let it destroy our healthcare system and economy?

What's your solution, sinkspur?

I asked the question.  You first.

[musiclady]

Two ways:  either outright repealing it, or starving it of money.  Obama can veto a bill that affirmatively purports to repeal Obastardcare, and look good for it; if he continually vetoes bills just because they don't contain funding for this obamination, he doesn't look so good, in fact, he looks like an obstructionist.  Therefore, at this point in time defunding may actually be a better strategy than doing nothing - sitting on the sidelines, with your hands under your thighs, and whispering longingly of that day in the far-off future when you'll finally, finally, have the votes and the President needed to repeal Obastardcare, but in the meantime you're not going to lift a finger to do anything about the implementation of it.

How're your hands feeling under your thighs?

The point is, that Obamacare is harming America badly NOW.

We can't afford to wait until the perfect moment in the future comes along.

Such pie in the sky thinking is non-productive.

[sinkspur]

You do not stop it by tearing down the people who are trying to actually DO something.  You stop it by standing behind the GOP and having their back in this fight for starters.

That's all bullshit.  Give me some specifics. 

If you were gaming this out, what steps would you take to stop Obamacare from being implemented?

[Cincinnatus]

How do we stop it?

I dunno for sure but somehow I don't think this is the answer:

[musiclady]

I asked the question.  You first.

I've already said that I support Cruz and his effort to defund this monstrosity.

You've only said that what he's doing is pointless.

What do you suggest we do, besides hoping that some day we get power back?

[sinkspur]

Two ways:  either outright repealing it, or starving it of money.  Obama can veto a bill that affirmatively purports to repeal Obastardcare, and look good for it; if he continually vetoes bills just because they don't contain funding for this obamination, he doesn't look so good, in fact, he looks like an obstructionist.  Therefore, at this point in time defunding may actually be a better strategy than doing nothing - sitting on the sidelines, with your hands under your thighs, and whispering longingly of that day in the far-off future when you'll finally, finally, have the votes and the President needed to repeal Obastardcare, but in the meantime you're not going to lift a finger to do anything about the implementation of it.

How're your hands feeling under your thighs?

One problem.   There's no poll that supports defunding Obamacare.  Obama knows it. That's why he will veto any attempt to do it.

Any other ideas?

[musiclady]

One problem.   There's no poll that supports defunding Obamacare.  Obama knows it. That's why he will veto any attempt to do it.

Any other ideas?

The "idea" is that our representatives actually do what they were elected to do.

Starve the beast.

And not make decisions based on polls (though a strong majority of Americans in polls DO object to Obamacare, so your using polls against us here is puzzling).

[sinkspur]

I've already said that I support Cruz and his effort to defund this monstrosity.

You've only said that what he's doing is pointless.

What do you suggest we do, besides hoping that some day we get power back?

How's that working out for you?  Supporting Cruz's efforts?

We can't defund it or delay it.  My suggestion is that we let it play out and reveal itself to be the disaster it is.

If our side didn't do stupid stuff like shutdown the government, we might keep the focus on the rocky rollout of Obamacare and all its problems.  Instead, the media has made today all about the shutdown.

[musiclady]

How's that working out for you?  Supporting Cruz's efforts?

We can't defund it or delay it.  My suggestion is that we let it play out and reveal itself to be the disaster it is.

If our side didn't do stupid stuff like shutdown the government, we might keep the focus on the rocky rollout of Obamacare and all its problems.  Instead, the media has made today all about the shutdown.

"Our side" didn't shut down the government.

Harry Reid did.

Obama did.

What the media reports isn't true.  How did you miss that?

[Oceander]

One problem.   There's no poll that supports defunding Obamacare.  Obama knows it. That's why he will veto any attempt to do it.

Any other ideas?

Ahh, and there are polls showing overwhelming support for it?

Furthermore, getting him to veto any attempt to fund the government that does not include funding for Obastardcare is precisely the point - if the republicans keep offering up proposals to fund the various "important" - but not "essential" - parts of the federal government and Obama keeps knocking them down, then it becomes quite clear that the only obstructionist in the room is Obama, not the republicans; it becomes obvious that the only person denying Americans their personal pet "bennies" from the federal government is Obama, not the republicans.  That shifts the blame for the shutdown to Obama and the democrats or, more precisely, it lets them take ownership of the shutdown all by themselves.

In other words, getting Obastard to veto any appropriations bill for any part of the federal leviathan that does not include funding for Obastardcare is part of the point of this exercise, not a lamentable mistake from this exercise.

And that involves more than just some misbegotten focus on "NOW;" it involves framing the discussion for 2014 and beyond and attempting to set the terms of debate by letting the democrats prove themselves to be the hyper-partisan obstructionists.

[Oceander]

How's that working out for you?  Supporting Cruz's efforts?

We can't defund it or delay it.  My suggestion is that we let it play out and reveal itself to be the disaster it is.

If our side didn't do stupid stuff like shutdown the government, we might keep the focus on the rocky rollout of Obamacare and all its problems.  Instead, the media has made today all about the shutdown.

Who shut down the government?  Apparently you've been inhabiting some bizarro alternate reality.  The republicans have offered up all sorts of funding measures, comprehensive as well as piece-meal, and all of them have been shot down by Reid and the democrats for one sole reason:  none of them provides funding for Obastardcare.  Sorry, but in this reality it's Reid, Obama, and the democrats who have shut down the government and you ill-serve yourself and every other republican by playing into the hands of the democrats and repeating the lie that it was the republicans who shut down the government.

[sinkspur]

Ahh, and there are polls showing overwhelming support for it?

Furthermore, getting him to veto any attempt to fund the government that does not include funding for Obastardcare is precisely the point - if the republicans keep offering up proposals to fund the various "important" - but not "essential" - parts of the federal government and Obama keeps knocking them down, then it becomes quite clear that the only obstructionist in the room is Obama, not the republicans; it becomes obvious that the only person denying Americans their personal pet "bennies" from the federal government is Obama, not the republicans.  That shifts the blame for the shutdown to Obama and the democrats or, more precisely, it lets them take ownership of the shutdown all by themselves.

In other words, getting Obastard to veto any appropriations bill for any part of the federal leviathan that does not include funding for Obastardcare is part of the point of this exercise, not a lamentable mistake from this exercise.

And that involves more than just some misbegotten focus on "NOW;" it involves framing the discussion for 2014 and beyond and attempting to set the terms of debate by letting the democrats prove themselves to be the hyper-partisan obstructionists.

OKay.  Well, good luck with that.   Obama has the bully pulpit and we don't. 

[Cincinnatus]

If our side didn't do stupid stuff like shutdown the government

Surprised? Really? Just another of his Liberal talking points.

[musiclady]

OKay.  Well, good luck with that.   Obama has the bully pulpit and we don't.

So then, you have no solution.

I figured that.