Author Topic: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way  (Read 997 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« on: September 26, 2013, 11:09:50 AM »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline olde north church

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2013, 11:15:22 AM »
Anemic, doddering George Will is still around?  I thought he ran off with some chippy, far too young for him.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Online mystery-ak

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2013, 11:15:51 AM »
For every anti Cruz thread I could post ten praising him.... :thud:

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2013, 11:22:28 AM »
Anemic, doddering George Will is still around?  I thought he ran off with some chippy, far too young for him.

I have to laugh.  Now we see the Cruzites flinging the ad hominems. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2013, 11:23:36 AM »
For every anti Cruz thread I could post ten praising him.... :thud:

Go ahead.  There surely isn't nearly enough slavish Cruz worship around this place already.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2013, 11:44:45 AM »
Anemic, doddering George Will is still around?  I thought he ran off with some chippy, far too young for him.

I happen to like George Will a great deal. He is thoughtful, measured, erudite, and respectful. I generally agree with him in this regard: ObamaCare cannot be defeated in the short term because of the Senate's mathematical composition, and because of the man sitting in the White House.

I differ with him on two points: the case for doing away with the ACA had to be made and placed in the national record, and Ted Cruz made that case exceedingly well.  Secondly, our political system is broken and given to casual disregard of the Constitution, sadly abetted now by the Supreme Court. To simply hope that ObamaCare will fail of its own in time is to disregard both its foundational design and the character of its proponents. They are dishonest and destructive of liberty.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline olde north church

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2013, 01:02:31 PM »
I have to laugh.  Now we see the Cruzites flinging the ad hominems.

Actually, it's I who needs to laugh.  I am to the far right of Cruz.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 01:32:36 PM by olde north church »
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2013, 01:26:04 PM »
I happen to like George Will a great deal. He is thoughtful, measured, erudite, and respectful. I generally agree with him in this regard: ObamaCare cannot be defeated in the short term because of the Senate's mathematical composition, and because of the man sitting in the White House.

I differ with him on two points: the case for doing away with the ACA had to be made and placed in the national record, and Ted Cruz made that case exceedingly well.  Secondly, our political system is broken and given to casual disregard of the Constitution, sadly abetted now by the Supreme Court. To simply hope that ObamaCare will fail of its own in time is to disregard both its foundational design and the character of its proponents. They are dishonest and destructive of liberty.



George Will and Krauthammer are both brilliant men, they also are not conservatives.. remember who Krauthammer used to work for ... and when I see anything from them in the back of my mind is always the knowledge they were among the first reporters Obama invited to dinner and wined and dined them..after which they were praising Obama.

Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »


George Will and Krauthammer are both brilliant men, they also are not conservatives.. remember who Krauthammer used to work for ... and when I see anything from them in the back of my mind is always the knowledge they were among the first reporters Obama invited to dinner and wined and dined them..after which they were praising Obama.

I think it's a stretch to say that Will and Krauthammer are "not conservatives".

I continue to read the columns of both men because as you say, they are brilliant, and I would add: highly perceptive writers. George Will has a rare depth of historical perspective and in spite of his 1950's dress code appearance (bow tie and all), he has a firm grasp on modern American culture. Charles K., as an obvious consequence of his psychiatric training, is especially adept at getting inside Liberals' heads and explaining their behavior.

As you review the body of work of each, it is apparent that they both stand firmly on traditional conservative ground, favoring limited government, strong national defense, free enterprise and Constitutional adherence.

I have had my differences with both over the years; recently with Will as regards domestic surveillance, and with Krauthammer on foreign policy adventurism. But even a casual comparison with any Progressive writer or politician of one's choice makes it abundantly clear that both men sit on the right side of the aisle.

Never forget that reasonable people may disagree about many things and ought to be free to do so without recrimination, even as they ought to be prepared to support their beliefs in the marketplace of ideas. No such toleration presently exists on the Left, and conservatives distinguish themselves by maintaining open minds, especially in the shadow of a culture dominated by closed ones. 
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 02:04:45 PM »
I just have a difficult time equating the fact Krauthammer worked for Mondale and his continued insistence on criticizing conservatives in the GOP with him being a conservative.  I, too, pay attention to what he writes because the man is a genius (IMHO)... but many times I disagree with him on his assessment of some of our conservative candidates.

Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 02:19:04 PM »
I just have a difficult time equating the fact Krauthammer worked for Mondale and his continued insistence on criticizing conservatives in the GOP with him being a conservative.  I, too, pay attention to what he writes because the man is a genius (IMHO)... but many times I disagree with him on his assessment of some of our conservative candidates.

I understand. But of course there are many Republicans and conservatives who used to be Democrats and liberals.

National Review
in its infancy featured a coterie of writers many of whom used to be out-and-out Communists (e.g. - Whittaker Chambers, John Dos Passos, Frank Meyer and James Burnham). David Horowitz, now an indispensable force on the Right, was himself a radical revolutionary in the '60s. The trend continued over time as many southern and midwestern Democrats increasingly gravitated toward the GOP, with the election of Reagan in 1980 serving as the "tipping point" moment. Others have come around in more recent years - think about Jimmy Carter's former pollster Pat Caddell - he's still a Democrat I think, but when was the last time he sounded like one?   
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2013, 02:36:55 PM »
Good points, Andy.  Actually I have known of Horowitz for many, many years.  He used to be a regular on one of our local TV stations when I lived in Southern California and when I was still forming a lot of my political opinons (aside from what I learned in college ) I paid a lot of attention to what he said. I respected him because he was so forthright about where he came from and how he got to where he is today... and I have grown to really respect Pat Caddell.  I like Bob Beckel even though I almost never agree with him, but at least he is honest about why he feels the way he does about his positions.  I respect people who are forthright and don't play games. 

Online aligncare

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2013, 02:37:33 PM »
Got to disagree, Andy. The epithet "RINO" is used by many on the right to impugn those who are not in lockstep with real conservatives. Intolerance of differing opinion is common on both sides of the ideological divide.

But winning candidates know how to build consensus. Reagan did it, and Cruz, as well as Rand Paul, in my opinion, appear to have the right temperament to build coalitions that could succeed. Of course that remains to be seen.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2013, 02:41:08 PM »
Got to disagree, Andy. The epithet "RINO" is used by many on the right to impugn those who are not in lockstep with real conservatives. Intolerance of differing opinion is common on both sides of the ideological divide.

But winning candidates know how to build consensus. Reagan did it, and Cruz, as well as Rand Paul, in my opinion, appear to have the right temperament to build coalitions that could succeed. Of course that remains to be seen.

I think that is what has the moderate Republicans concerned.  They had their wagons hitched to Chris Christie and they are watching him fade into the twilight as these "upstart" conservatives grab the spotlight - same as Reagan did in the late 70's, early 80's... they were lamenting Christie yesterday on The Five - a few months ago The Five had him all but elected our candidate.

Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: On Obamacare, Republicans Get in their Own Way
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2013, 02:49:15 PM »
Got to disagree, Andy. The epithet "RINO" is used by many on the right to impugn those who are not in lockstep with real conservatives. Intolerance of differing opinion is common on both sides of the ideological divide.

But winning candidates know how to build consensus. Reagan did it, and Cruz, as well as Rand Paul, in my opinion, appear to have the right temperament to build coalitions that could succeed. Of course that remains to be seen.

I agree that the term "RINO" is overused, in that it sometimes unfairly conflates people who differ over strategy or tactics with those who do not truly share conservative principles. Yet there are some among the GOP congressional leadership who simply are not conservatives.
Liberalism isn't really about making the world a better place. It's about reassuring the elites that they are good people for wanting to rule over it.


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