ObamaCare premiums cheaper than expected, says White House

[sinkspur]

You speak as though the Republicans, should they go on to capture the Senate in 2014 would suddenly be willing to defund ObamaCare. Most will not.

Put words in people's mouths much?  I never said that.  Nobody is going to defund Obamacare.  The bill will have to be repealed.

[R4 TrumPence]

So the $127.20 a month increase in my medical contribution could have been much worse?  I feel soooooo relieved.

I only have catastrophic and mine  almost doubled this month!

[andy58-in-nh]

Put words in people's mouths much?  I never said that.  Nobody is going to defund Obamacare.  The bill will have to be repealed.

Fine. No one is going to repeal ObamaCare if conservatives are treated like dirt by a GOP Establishment that will not and has not fought to reduce the size, scope, reach and expense of the Federal government, EVER.

They are PROGRESSIVES, just like the Democrats. They want big government, just slower, a bit softer, and perhaps, using more lubricant. 

[sinkspur]

Fine. No one is going to repeal ObamaCare if conservatives are treated like dirt by a GOP Establishment that will not and has not fought to reduce the size, scope, reach and expense of the Federal government, EVER.

They are PROGRESSIVES, just like the Democrats. They want big government, just slower, a bit softer, and perhaps, using more lubricant.

Nobody has  reduced the size of government since Calvin Coolidge.  Even the sainted Ronald Reagan grew the government.  Slowing its growth is the only option.

Repealing or even defunding Obamacare cannot happen when the repealers occupy one House of Congress.  That's the way our government works.

This quixotic mission to defund was always doomed.  But, it will increase the coffers of Freedom Works, Heritage Action, and one Theodore Cruz.

[happyg]

Nobody has  reduced the size of government since Calvin Coolidge.  Even the sainted Ronald Reagan grew the government.  Slowing its growth is the only option.

Repealing or even defunding Obamacare cannot happen when the repealers occupy one House of Congress.  That's the way our government works.

This quixotic mission to defund was always doomed.  But, it will increase the coffers of Freedom Works, Heritage Action, and one Theodore Cruz.

Among others...

[andy58-in-nh]

Nobody has  reduced the size of government since Calvin Coolidge.  Even the sainted Ronald Reagan grew the government.  Slowing its growth is the only option.

Repealing or even defunding Obamacare cannot happen when the repealers occupy one House of Congress.  That's the way our government works.

This quixotic mission to defund was always doomed.  But, it will increase the coffers of Freedom Works, Heritage Action, and one Theodore Cruz.

Back in Reagan's day (and I know because I was there), the government and our debt were still small enough that GDP growth could conceivably outpace both, given a program of reduced taxes and regulation. That government spending expanded at all was a function of the need to replenish a threadbare military force facing a dangerous Soviet expansionism.

We're in a different world now. Federal spending in 1984 was $851.81 billion. In 2013 it is projected to be $3.685 Trillion. Our gross public debt in 1984 was $1.564 trillion. Now it is $17.249 trillion. Our unfunded public liabilities now exceed $125 trillion, with a shrinking workforce, a zero birth rate, millions of illegal aliens about to be added to the Federal Hammock, and ObamaCare about to add to the already impossible mathematics that spells "doom".  We've passed the last exit on the Road to Disaster.

The forces standing up and admitting to this unfolding nightmare do not include the Republican Party leadership, its head firmly in the sand, up its own posterior, or else enjoying the cocktails your money continues to buy them before they jet off to wherever they plan to go with their offshore accounts before this whole mother blows up, which, in point of fact and with absolute mathematical certitude, it will.

[olde north church]

No.  I don't want this bill to take effect.  But it's going to take effect.  And it's going to be a disaster, which is what I've said all along.  We'll see how much pressure voters put on Democrats when they have to change doctors, travel 50 miles to find a hospital that will take their plan, and wait months for standard tests.

Letting Obamacare collapse of its own weight was always the only thing that will work.  Dreaming that the Senate would defund or that Obama would sign a defunding was silly.

You're correct.  The old "collapse under it's own weight" strategy has worked so well in crippling and taking under Social Security and the "War On Poverty".

[ABX]

You're correct.  The old "collapse under it's own weight" strategy has worked so well in crippling and taking under Social Security and the "War On Poverty".

Has there ever been a government program that ended by collapsing under its own weight or do they just continue to grow like a cancer on a whale?

[happyg]

Has there ever been a government program that ended by collapsing under its own weight or do they just continue to grow like a cancer on a whale?

The Post Office just raised its rates again 5.9%.

[Rapunzel]

We are approaching 80% GDP........ so, Sink,  when will you be willing to say enough, and bite the bullet?  Obamacare was promised (joke) to be less than a trillion.  CBO now places it at a trillion and  a half.  That is a trillion and a half that never needed to be spent, many hidden taxes that didn't need to be raised and an unfathomable number of people who now have to work two jobs instead of one because they no longer have a 40-hour work week.  You keep saying you want it to take effect so it can collapse knowing if (and that is a huge if) if collapses we will all be placed on a single payer system.. not a Medicare quality but a medicaid quality plan. Doctors are already quiting and people are changing their minds about medical school, hospitals are laying off staff and some are outright closing... Frankly I think anyone in either party who doesn't fight like hell to stop this is incredibly selfish.

[happyg]

We are approaching 80% GDP........ so, Sink,  when will you be willing to say enough, and bite the bullet?  Obamacare was promised (joke) to be less than a trillion.  CBO now places it at a trillion and  a half.  That is a trillion and a half that never needed to be spent, many hidden taxes that didn't need to be raised and an unfathomable number of people who now have to work two jobs instead of one because they no longer have a 40-hour work week.  You keep saying you want it to take effect so it can collapse knowing if (and that is a huge if) if collapses we will all be placed on a single payer system.. not a Medicare quality but a medicaid quality plan. Doctors are already quiting and people are changing their minds about medical school, hospitals are laying off staff and some are outright closing... Frankly I think anyone in either party who doesn't fight like hell to stop this is incredibly selfish.

  If we don't fight for what we believe in, then we are the equivalent about what Cruz talked about, 'Nazi Appeasers". There would not have been a holocaust of people spoke up right away. Waiting for the right time is too late.

[olde north church]

Has there ever been a government program that ended by collapsing under its own weight or do they just continue to grow like a cancer on a whale?

That was a sarcastic comment.

[Rapunzel]

Well.. I will go with Forbes over the Dallas Morning News - especially since Saturday they announced someone screwed up the computer program and the WRONG numbers were being quoted to people.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/?partner=yahootix

[sinkspur]

You're correct.  The old "collapse under it's own weight" strategy has worked so well in crippling and taking under Social Security and the "War On Poverty".

You wanna kill Social Security?  What idiotic politician would advocate killing a program that benefits every person over 65? 

Are you friggin' serious.?

[sinkspur]

The Post Office just raised its rates again 5.9%.

You don't have to use the Post Office.  I don't.

[sinkspur]

We are approaching 80% GDP........ so, Sink,  when will you be willing to say enough, and bite the bullet?  Obamacare was promised (joke) to be less than a trillion.  CBO now places it at a trillion and  a half.  That is a trillion and a half that never needed to be spent, many hidden taxes that didn't need to be raised and an unfathomable number of people who now have to work two jobs instead of one because they no longer have a 40-hour work week.  You keep saying you want it to take effect so it can collapse knowing if (and that is a huge if) if collapses we will all be placed on a single payer system.. not a Medicare quality but a medicaid quality plan. Doctors are already quiting and people are changing their minds about medical school, hospitals are laying off staff and some are outright closing... Frankly I think anyone in either party who doesn't fight like hell to stop this is incredibly selfish.

Well, we just disagree.

[Rapunzel]

Well, we just disagree.

So you don't care how high the GDP to deficit grows?  Is that your response?

[sinkspur]

So you don't care how high the GDP to deficit grows?  Is that your response?

I vote for conservative Republicans here in Texas every election.  I don't do demonstrations, marches, or send donations to politicians. 

I rescue abandoned dogs.  Pissing away valuable time and money on politics is not something I'm going to do.

But I do vote, faithfully.  Even for City Council and School Board.

[Rapunzel]

And you dance on the head of a pin rather than ever answer a direct question.  You may vote for Republicans.. not necessarily "conservatives" however -- IIRC you voted for Dewhurst over Cruz in the Primary and you were dead set that Paul was not going to win KY and you never in a million years thought McCain would choose Palin even when we were saying that is exactly who he was going to pick.......   you supported Rove support Castle in DE and joined in with Rove in denigrating both Angle and O'Donnell... rather than follow the 11th commandment you like to throw out once they were the party candidate.  I lost track of who you were actually supporting in 2012... one day you liked Perry the next day you hated him and then the next you liked Romney until the 47% tape came out....  so pardon me if I frankly take your positions seriously.

[sinkspur]

And you dance on the head of a pin rather than ever answer a direct question.  You may vote for Republicans.. not necessarily "conservatives" however -- IIRC you voted for Dewhurst over Cruz in the Primary and you were dead set that Paul was not going to win KY and you never in a million years thought McCain would choose Palin even when we were saying that is exactly who he was going to pick.......   you supported Rove support Castle in DE and joined in with Rove in denigrating both Angle and O'Donnell... rather than follow the 11th commandment you like to throw out once they were the party candidate.  I lost track of who you were actually supporting in 2012... one day you liked Perry the next day you hated him and then the next you liked Romney until the 47% tape came out....  so pardon me if I frankly take your positions seriously.

Your memory is seriously defective, though I have no interest in correcting your faulty recollections. 

Rap, I lose sleep wondering what you think of me.  I really do.

[Rapunzel]

Your memory is seriously defective, though I have no interest in correcting your faulty recollections. 

Rap, I lose sleep wondering what you think of me.  I really do.

Actually, my memory is VERY good.

[ABX]

Just did a bit of digging and not only is this probably based on the broken calculator I posted the story about up-thread,  the results from several other sources contradict the findings.

Forbes- Double Down: Obamacare Will Increase Avg. Individual-Market Insurance Premiums By 99% For Men, 62% For Women

...Based on a Manhattan Institute analysis of the HHS numbers, Obamacare will increase underlying insurance rates for younger men by an average of 97 to 99 percent, and for younger women by an average of 55 to 62 percent. Worst off is North Carolina, which will see individual-market rates triple for women, and quadruple for men.

HHS releases a trickle of data and a load of spin....

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/25/double-down-obamacare-will-increase-avg-individual-market-insurance-premiums-by-99-for-men-62-for-women/

Hot Air- The Obamacare “lower premiums” shell game

...The headlines are carefully scripted to give one impression, but the reality is something else. You have to check with a few sources to find it, though.

    Insurance premiums for some consumers in Maryland will go up by as much as 25 percent once ObamaCare takes full effect next year.

    The state on Friday released final insurance rates for the private insurance policies available next year through the new insurance exchange created by ObamaCare…

...So the headlines being pitched attempt to make you think costs are going down. They aren’t. In fact, they are going up everywhere. But hey… it’s not like anyone promised us that Obamacare would actually reduce rates, right? ...

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/07/28/the-obamacare-lower-premiums-shell-game/

As the old saying goes (paraphrased),  You never know how something can be until the government makes it 'free'.

[Cincinnatus]

I may have missed this point but there is another dimension to ObamaCare that really ought be sufficient cause to oppose it. Namely, everyone is REQUIRED to enroll; except, of course, the politically favored.

Where did the government ever get the authority to make me buy something I may not want (John Roberts notwithstanding). There would be no issue about cost if I never had to buy it in the first place, would there?

[ABX]

I may have missed this point but there is another dimension to ObamaCare that really ought be sufficient cause to oppose it. Namely, everyone is REQUIRED to enroll; except, of course, the politically favored.

Where did the government ever get the authority to make me buy something I may not want (John Roberts notwithstanding). There would be no issue about cost if I never had to buy it in the first place, would there?

That is, of course, the most excellent point. It is a massive over-reach of power that opens the door to complete control over everything. If they can require us to buy the specific one-size-fits-all policy they require, what is to stop them from requiring us to buy specific food, drive specific cars (or none at all), mandate what job we have, etc?  All in the name of the common good.

...and the insurance companies love it because they are guaranteed millions of permanent customers with little to no competition.

[sinkspur]

Enrolling in Obamacare is optional.  If one doesn't enroll, he/she pays a penalty that is always less than the yearly premiums.

Young people are smart enough to figure this out.  The idea that hordes of 20-somethings are going to sign up for Obamacare is a pipe dream, especially when they can wait until they actually need insurance and sign up then.

Remember, nobody can be turned down for insurance for any reason.