Author Topic: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz  (Read 8562 times)

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Offline massadvj

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2013, 08:31:54 pm »
I have a feeling people like McConnell are hearing from key constituents today, and I seriously doubt what they are hearing is anti-Cruz.  Quite the opposite.  If he is making life difficult for the GOP leadership in the senate, so be it.  The leadership desperately needed shaking up.


Offline Bigun

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2013, 08:35:17 pm »
I have a feeling people like McConnell are hearing from key constituents today, and I seriously doubt what they are hearing is anti-Cruz.  Quite the opposite.  If he is making life difficult for the GOP leadership in the senate, so be it.  The leadership desperately needed shaking up.

 :amen:  :amen: and  :amen:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline evadR

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2013, 08:36:17 pm »
I'd say that you don't know yours:



In the context of Cruz's speech, he pointed out that there were enablers such as Chamberlain, not that the enablers were Nazis.
Although ALL Nazis were enablers, not all enablers were Nazis.

The comparison to today's republican enablers, that is republicans that are enablers, is perfect.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 08:40:29 pm by evadR² »
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2013, 09:36:36 pm »
If Ted Cruz expects to lead a disparate Republican party (as Ronald Reagan did), he'd better stop with the vitriol and trashing members of his own party.

The Democrats are the opposition.  Training fire on Republicans is counterproductive.

It is not Ted Cruz who is doing the trashing. It would be really helpful had you actually watched his filibuster yesterday - as many of us here did. In fact he was very kind and praised McCain on the floor... he did not stoop to the nasty antics McCain has been using.  The only trashing going on is coming from the progressives in our party. In fact after a long back and forth with Kaine of VA (a Democrat) he was very complimentary of Kaine - saying they didn't agree on much, but there was some areas they agree and want to work together........ 

Frankly I think these go-along, get-along Republicans need calling out.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2013, 09:48:25 pm »
No one has EVER won anything by appeasing the enemy! THAT is the point of Cruz's statement and YOU damned well know it. Enough!

The enemy? 

Thanks for proving my point, Bigun.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2013, 09:49:57 pm »
I'd say that you don't know yours:




So?  A picture of Neville Chamberlain proves MY point, not yours.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2013, 09:53:31 pm »
In the context of Cruz's speech, he pointed out that there were enablers such as Chamberlain, not that the enablers were Nazis.
Although ALL Nazis were enablers, not all enablers were Nazis.

The comparison to today's republican enablers, that is republicans that are enablers, is perfect.

You Cruzites better get on the same page.  Or is there even a rift in Cruzism?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2013, 09:56:51 pm »
The enemy? 

Thanks for proving my point, Bigun.

That's right my friend! The ENEMY! And I could care less what letter follows their name! If they are anti liberty progressives they are my sworn enemy and I will not retreat or surrender until they are completely and totally defeated!

Do I make myself clear?

“It is necessary for every American, with becoming energy to endeavor to stop the dissemination of principles evidently destructive of the cause for which they have bled. It must be the combined virtue of the rulers and of the people to do this, and to rescue and save their civil and religious rights from the outstretched arm of tyranny, which may appear under any mode or form of government.”

Mercy Warren, History of the Rise, Progress, and Termination of the American Revolution, 1805


« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 10:04:07 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2013, 09:59:29 pm »
Ted Cruz is the establishments worst nightmare and OUR champion!

 :amen:

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2013, 10:28:22 pm »
You think it was OK for Cruz to liken Republicans to Nazi enablers?

I knew this was another one of his lies as soon as I saw it.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2013, 10:40:17 pm »
So?  A picture of Neville Chamberlain proves MY point, not yours.

Chamberlain is precisely who Ted Cruz was referring to.  He enabled Hitler's plans. If that "proves your point", then you owe Mr. Cruz's supporters an apology.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2013, 10:53:08 pm »
Chamberlain is precisely who Ted Cruz was referring to.  He enabled Hitler's plans. If that "proves your point", then you owe Mr. Cruz's supporters an apology.

Don't count on it.

That said, Chamberlain was a spineless stooge who was so easily bamboozled by Hitler that he would have given away the entire continent if Hitler had asked for it.  You do not defeat a thug by backing down or appeasing him.  You defeat the thug by standing up to him.  Had the western powers stood up to Hitler, his little Nazi experiment might have just imploded in on itself since the entire thing was a house of cards and could only exist with conquest.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2013, 10:54:14 pm »
Chamberlain is precisely who Ted Cruz was referring to.  He enabled Hitler's plans. If that "proves your point", then you owe Mr. Cruz's supporters an apology.

It proves my point that Cruz was equating Republicans who disagree with his tactics to Nazi enablers.  What Cruz said is beside the point.  Other than to advance his own career, Cruz's tactic did nothing.







Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2013, 11:05:39 pm »
What Cruz said is beside the point.   :mauslaff:

Absolutely. How could it possibly matter?
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2013, 11:07:09 pm »
Chamberlain has become a mythical figure in history.

At the time he "enabled" the Germans, neither Britain or the US wanted another world war. Hitler had yet to invade Poland, France or Russia.

Roosevelt kept the US out for as long as possible, because the "conservatives" of the day resisted strongly, and because the American people resisted.

So if Chamberlain "enabled" the Nazi, so too did Roosevelt, the US Congress, and American voters.

Read real history, not mythical rewritings of history.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2013, 11:09:47 pm »
I always like when someone tells me to read history or that I don't know it.  :whistle:
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2013, 11:32:01 pm »
I always like when someone tells me to read history or that I don't know it.  :whistle:

Yep.. isn't your masters in History?
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2013, 11:35:12 pm »
Yep.. isn't your masters in History?

Bachelor of Arts, History, Texas A&M University 2003
Master of Arts, American Military History, Sam Houston State University 2008
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Bigun

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2013, 11:42:34 pm »
Don't count on it.

That said, Chamberlain was a spineless stooge who was so easily bamboozled by Hitler that he would have given away the entire continent if Hitler had asked for it.  You do not defeat a thug by backing down or appeasing him.  You defeat the thug by standing up to him.  Had the western powers stood up to Hitler, his little Nazi experiment might have just imploded in on itself since the entire thing was a house of cards and could only exist with conquest.

Very much like many in the republican party today unfortunately!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline happyg

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2013, 11:44:07 pm »
Very much like many in the republican party today unfortunately!

My dad called them gutless wonders.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2013, 11:56:50 pm »
My dad called them gutless wonders.

I think I'll see if I can't start a trend by calling them Neville Chamberlain republicans!

Or maybe just republican surrender monkeys.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2013, 12:16:35 am »
Chamberlain has become a mythical figure in history.

At the time he "enabled" the Germans, neither Britain or the US wanted another world war. Hitler had yet to invade Poland, France or Russia.

Roosevelt kept the US out for as long as possible, because the "conservatives" of the day resisted strongly, and because the American people resisted.

So if Chamberlain "enabled" the Nazi, so too did Roosevelt, the US Congress, and American voters.

Read real history, not mythical rewritings of history.

I have read "real" history, as well as taught it. So please allow me:

At the time he "enabled" the Germans, neither Britain or the US wanted another world war. Hitler had yet to invade Poland, France or Russia.


Really. As though anyone wanted another war. By late 1938, Hitler had created the largest and best-armed fighting force in the world; the size, composition, and activities of which (in addition to Nazi broadcast propaganda) made it plain to anyone willing and able to pay attention that Germany had intentions beyond reclaiming the the Saar Valley or the Sudentenland. The Blitzkrieg was not a surprise to those with access to news and information, except to the perpetually deluded.

Roosevelt kept the US out for as long as possible, because the "conservatives" of the day resisted strongly, and because the American people resisted.

Oh, you mean "conservatives" like the America First organization (a great number of whose members were supporters of perennial Socialist Presidential candidate Norman Thomas), or Charles Lindbergh and Joseph P. Kennedy (both noted anti-Semites)?  FDR for his part never really trusted Hitler's intentions, nor did he shy away from supporting Britain in 1941 through the "Lend-Lease" program by which the US provided war materiel to them in defense of their homeland.

So if Chamberlain "enabled" the Nazi, so too did Roosevelt, the US Congress, and American voters.

I do not recall FDR or Congress concluding a non-aggression pact with Germany and then proudly declaring that they had achieved "peace in our time". As for the voters, they were weary of the Depression and understandably wary of foreign intrigue, given the recent experience of WWI, in which they and not the politicians in Washington had been suffered to fight in pursuit of objectives that were no longer at all evident by 1938.

Appeasement, as such, is not always due to poor character or evil intentions. Sometimes, people accept what they ought to fight simply because they are beaten down, or beaten up.

That, I believe is the case with Republicans who refuse to fight ObamaCare's implementation.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #47 on: September 26, 2013, 12:24:16 am »
If Ted Cruz expects to lead a disparate Republican party (as Ronald Reagan did), he'd better stop with the vitriol and trashing members of his own party.

The Democrats are the opposition.  Training fire on Republicans is counterproductive.

What are you talking about?  You "train fire" on Republicans all the time.  Its all about who's ox is being gored, right sinky?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #48 on: September 26, 2013, 12:29:25 am »
What are you talking about?  You "train fire" on Republicans all the time.  Its all about who's ox is being gored, right sinky?

I'm not running for President as Cruz is.  I don't have to work with Republicans.  He does. Or, at least, he should.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline happyg

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Re: Within Senate GOP, frustration with Cruz
« Reply #49 on: September 26, 2013, 12:32:18 am »
I'm not running for President as Cruz is.  I don't have to work with Republicans.  He does. Or, at least, he should.

Peter King just called Cruz a government terrorist, among the names he was called by McCain. The GOP is doing the name calling, and won't accept a patriot who is guided by principle, rather than the go-along to get-along social club.