Author Topic: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare  (Read 1269 times)

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Offline Cincinnatus

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Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« on: September 24, 2013, 12:18:27 AM »
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Wise political minds [and some not even close to wise as seen on here] have made very apparent their view that a GOP-authored shutdown would amount to political suicide, but it seems the thinkers inside the Establishment have misread the electorate. Put plainly, a Republican Party that deserved rebuke after the George W. Bush economic disaster was given a very probationary second chance in 2010.

The second chance was rooted in voter discomfort not just with the growing size and scope of government, but also in fear of ObamaCare's implications for the quality and cost of health care. If voters had desired the status quo, they would have left the Democrats in control.

To be blunt, if the Republicans aren't willing to do everything in their power to defund, delay or repeal ObamaCare, what's the point of voting them majority status to begin with? Just the same, if the cost of government is going to continue to grow no matter the party in control of the purse strings, why vote Republican at all?

The allegedly wise thinkers of the GOP Establishment will respond that a "defund, shutdown and shrink" strategy will just make things worse for those who want smaller government, and who similarly want freedom over their health care choices.

The thinking seems to be that, absent the Republicans, full-throated national health care and expansive government are just around the corner. It's an argument that has merit on its face, but it's also one that is no longer credible.

Indeed, going back to 1994, the Republican base was sold a similar line about GOP parsimony with the money of others. To see how well that worked out, readers might compare federal spending in '94 to 2000, not to mention spending in 2000 vs. 2006 when a disgusted base finally, and very correctly, helped return the Republican Party to much-deserved minority status.

To state the obvious, Republicans have historically talked a good game about limited, less-expensive government, but the expense of it always seems to grow on their watch.

They probably don't deserve it, but Republicans have been given yet another chance to match policy with their bold rhetoric. Even better, and contrary to some of the more-established consensus, good policy will in this case be good politics for the Republicans. The House of Representatives is where spending originates, and Republicans were handed control to delay, defund or repeal ObamaCare in concert with serious shrinkage of the size of the federal government itself.

Assuming what's likely true, that President Obama and the Senate won't go along with GOP plans, a Republican House in control of spending will get to starve Obama's signature legislation, and then with a government shutdown that decidedly does not mean a shutdown of the federal government (Social Security checks will go out, the military will be funded, the IRS will, for good or bad, remain functional), it will force a happy realization on the citizenry that life goes on rather swimmingly without Leviathan running on all cylinders.

Assuming the opposite, as in assuming that voters make Republicans pay for a "defund, shutdown and shrink" strategy in 2014 and beyond — well, that must be a risk the party's leaders are willing to take.

That's the case because in addition to talking a good game about limited government, Republicans almost to a man talk big about the dangers wrought by lifelong politicians, not to mention how "alien" to them is the "corrupt" Washington culture. Since they do, they should be very eager to give up their privileged perches in Washington to "stand athwart" an ever-expanding federal government.

Furthermore, for a party that talks a lot about the very real horrors of dependency, why should its political leadership in Congress expect the base to sacrifice their principles in order to save the cushy jobs of GOP congressmen?

Further on with the alleged political risks, since GOP voters decidedly did not send the Republicans to Washington in order to do that which would get them re-elected, it's fair to contend that the presumed risks associated with "defund, shutdown and shrink" are well overdone.

Indeed, wouldn't it be more risky for the Republicans' electoral chances if ObamaCare were in full flower and the cost of government even greater come November 2014


http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-viewpoint/092313-672121-house-gop-should-starve-obama-signature-legislation.htm?p=full

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By JOHN TAMNY, editor of Forbes Opinions and RealClearMarkets.com.

We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2013, 12:20:36 AM »
Yes, they "should."
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline rangerrebew

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2013, 11:31:22 AM »
Its very difficult to "stand" if you have no spine. :thud:
Abraham Lincoln:

There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.
--January 27, 1838 Lyceum Address

Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. And not to Democrats alone do I make this appeal, but to all who love these
great and true principles.
--August 27, 1856 Speech at Kalamazoo, Michigan

Let us then turn this government back into the channel in which the framers of the Constitution originally placed it.
--July 10, 1858 Speech at Chicago

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2013, 11:36:34 AM »
To be blunt, if the Republicans aren't willing to do everything in their power to defund, delay or repeal ObamaCare, what's the point of voting them majority status to begin with?

To be blunt, this is one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this forum.

Mr. Tamny, exactly how does one repeal, defund, or delay ANYTHING from one House of Congress?
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Offline Olivia

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2013, 12:06:52 PM »
To be blunt, if the Republicans aren't willing to do everything in their power to defund, delay or repeal ObamaCare, what's the point of voting them majority status to begin with?

To be blunt, this is one of the dumbest statements I've ever read on this forum.

Mr. Tamny, exactly how does one repeal, defund, or delay ANYTHING from one House of Congress?

CUT OFF THE MONEY!!  Does Congress not hold the purse strings?  Aren't republicans the majority in Congress?  We are asking that all republicans stand together and do this, but some of them have already crossed over to the enemy and surrendered!
It COULD be done!
Truthfully, the most important thing in life is knowing what the most important things in life are, and prioritizing them accordingly.   Melchor Lim

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2013, 12:08:00 PM »
I suspect Obama cheers this defunding hullabaloo.  He has his surrogates to wage battle, it fractures the Republicans AND it distracts from some very real scandals. 

I fully understand the need to fight, but this... this is a fool's errand (it seems to me).
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 12:08:52 PM by Lando Lincoln »
For the progressive, there is very little to love about the United States. Washington, Jefferson, Madison? A bunch of rotten slaveholders, hypocrites, and cowards even when their hearts were in the right places. The Declaration of Independence? A manifesto for the propertied classes. The Constitution? An artifact of sexism and white supremacy. The sacrifices in the great wars of the 20th century? Feeding the poor and the disenfranchised into the meat-grinder of imperialism. The gifts of Carnegie, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Morgan, Astor? Blood money from self-aggrandizing robber barons. Nat Rev

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2013, 02:29:41 PM »
I suspect Obama cheers this defunding hullabaloo.  He has his surrogates to wage battle, it fractures the Republicans AND it distracts from some very real scandals. 

I fully understand the need to fight, but this... this is a fool's errand (it seems to me).

I am also wondering why we bother to vote for Republicans if they are going to do nothing but capitulate to the Democrats in the senate and in the congress; yes we only have one of three parts of government, but it is not without power to hold the house.    I voted for Republicans to fight against the Democrats, not to go along to get along in what has become a good ole boys club in the senate.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2013, 02:35:10 PM »
CUT OFF THE MONEY!!  Does Congress not hold the purse strings?  Aren't republicans the majority in Congress?  We are asking that all republicans stand together and do this, but some of them have already crossed over to the enemy and surrendered!
It COULD be done!

Except you can't cut off the money.  90% of Obamacare funding is mandatory spending, completely unaffected by this CR.  So, Cruz is fighting to cut 10% of the spending, a fight he cannot win because the Senate won't pass it and Obama won't sign it.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2013, 02:38:35 PM »
I suspect Obama cheers this defunding hullabaloo.  He has his surrogates to wage battle, it fractures the Republicans AND it distracts from some very real scandals. 

I fully understand the need to fight, but this... this is a fool's errand (it seems to me).

The Republicans are becoming known for pushing the country to the brink.  All this shutdown talk, and default-on-the-debt talk is cementing in voters' minds that the GOP is willing to play Russian roulette with what usually are routine matters.

And they always lose.  The ONLY victory the GOP has had in the last two years is allowing the sequester cuts to go into effect.
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Offline Relic

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2013, 02:40:09 PM »
I suspect Obama cheers this defunding hullabaloo.  He has his surrogates to wage battle, it fractures the Republicans AND it distracts from some very real scandals. 

I fully understand the need to fight, but this... this is a fool's errand (it seems to me).

I agree. To take an action that the majority of Americans disapprove of, (shutting down the government), is much like the Democrats passing a bill the majority disapproves of, (the ACA).

It's the law, let it fail on it's own merits. Once it fails, and the Republicans can increase their numbers, then joining the battle may make more sense.

To fight now, because it's "our last chance" doesn't make sense to me. It's like a general, seeing a vastly superior enemy force approching, charging into battle because he wanted to blunt the enemy's progress. The right move is to regroup, and attack the enemy when and where he least expects it. (Tip of the hat to Sun Tzu)..

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2013, 02:41:27 PM »
I agree. To take an action that the majority of Americans disapprove of, (shutting down the government), is much like the Democrats passing a bill the majority disapproves of, (the ACA).

It's the law, let it fail on it's own merits. Once it fails, and the Republicans can increase their numbers, then joining the battle may make more sense.

To fight now, because it's "our last chance" doesn't make sense to me. It's like a general, seeing a vastly superior enemy force approching, charging into battle because he wanted to blunt the enemy's progress. The right move is to regroup, and attack the enemy when and where he least expects it. (Tip of the hat to Sun Tzu)..


You are therefore advocating for a single-payer system.  Are YOU prepared for what that entails when it comes to your healthcare?
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Relic

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2013, 02:51:20 PM »

You are therefore advocating for a single-payer system.  Are YOU prepared for what that entails when it comes to your healthcare?

I live in a Republic.
I realize I am subject to rules, regulations and laws with which I profoundly disagree.
I also realize that saying the majority of Americans oppose Obamacare doesn't mean the majority of Americans oppose socialized medicine. They may embrace the concept and not the implementation. I don't know for sure. I know in this neck of the woods, the majority does want socialized medicine.
Regroup, educate, and fight from a position of power, not a position of weakness. If the majority of my fellow citizens want socialized medicine, that's what I'm going to end up with. It's not pretty, but it is reality. And I'm used to dealing with reality.

BTW, I know you're upset over this, but to falsely draw conclusions from what I post doesn't help anyone.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 02:52:15 PM by Relic »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2013, 02:55:09 PM »

You are therefore advocating for a single-payer system.  Are YOU prepared for what that entails when it comes to your healthcare?

We would be in a much better position to do something about Obamacare had tea partiers not voted in primaries for brain-dead candidates like Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Richard Mourdock, and Todd Akin as US Senate candidates.
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Offline happyg

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2013, 03:18:36 PM »
We would be in a much better position to do something about Obamacare had tea partiers not voted in primaries for brain-dead candidates like Sharon Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Richard Mourdock, and Todd Akin as US Senate candidates.

It was the GOP who trashed those people. We'd be better off if the GOP would accept conservatives into the elite club.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 03:47:53 PM »
I live in a Republic.
I realize I am subject to rules, regulations and laws with which I profoundly disagree.
I also realize that saying the majority of Americans oppose Obamacare doesn't mean the majority of Americans oppose socialized medicine. They may embrace the concept and not the implementation. I don't know for sure. I know in this neck of the woods, the majority does want socialized medicine.
 

Yes, but not everyone lives in a blue area of a blue state.  Many of us live in very red states where people still fly the flag, love this country and hate creeping socialism and will fight for their country and not give up.... for those living in a blue state it behooves them to explain to their neighbors, fellow workers and friends why creeping socialism is bad for everyone...  not just  :shrug: and say it cannot be changed... it can be changed, but only if we do fight... and fight like hell.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Relic

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 03:56:53 PM »
Yes, but not everyone lives in a blue area of a blue state.  Many of us live in very red states where people still fly the flag, love this country and hate creeping socialism and will fight for their country and not give up.... for those living in a blue state it behooves them to explain to their neighbors, fellow workers and friends why creeping socialism is bad for everyone...  not just  :shrug: and say it cannot be changed... it can be changed, but only if we do fight... and fight like hell.

You've talked to liberals. You know better than that. To explain to a liberal how bad socialism is, and will be is like trying to teach rocket science to a chimpanzee.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2013, 04:03:46 PM »
It was the GOP who trashed those people. We'd be better off if the GOP would accept conservatives into the elite club.

Are you kidding? 

You think Christine "I'm not a witch" O'Donnell,   the "rape is God's will" brothers, Akin and Mourdock are suitable candidates? 
 
They were jokes, as was Sharron Angle.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2013, 04:15:27 PM »
Are you kidding? 

You think Christine "I'm not a witch" O'Donnell,   the "rape is God's will" brothers, Akin and Mourdock are suitable candidates? 
 
They were jokes, as was Sharron Angle.

To you they are jokes, but they were certainly better than the Democratic alternative.  In the case of O'Donnell Karl Rove was pissed that she defeated his guy - who had already indicated he was going to do an Arlen Specter and switch parties if elected.  Rove kneecapped her before she even gave her acceptance speech - yet it is she you are angry at when the person that made sure she lost was Rove.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2013, 04:35:23 PM »
To you they are jokes, but they were certainly better than the Democratic alternative.  In the case of O'Donnell Karl Rove was pissed that she defeated his guy - who had already indicated he was going to do an Arlen Specter and switch parties if elected.  Rove kneecapped her before she even gave her acceptance speech - yet it is she you are angry at when the person that made sure she lost was Rove.

Karl Rove made Christine O'Donnell talk about not being a witch?  Listen, that little lollipop lost that race in dramatic fashion all by herself. 
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Republicans Must Stand Firm In Defunding ObamaCare
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2013, 04:40:44 PM »
Karl Rove made Christine O'Donnell talk about not being a witch?  Listen, that little lollipop lost that race in dramatic fashion all by herself.

It would be so nice if you talked about conservative women with at least a little respect.   :shrug:

She might not have failed at all had the leadership of the party helped her out, they tossed her out there and left her hang because they do not like anyone who is a conservative challenging their little fiefdom in the Senate (or congress)....  They only "like" conservatives when they expect us to show up and vote for the like dutiful little Republicans... but those days are gone. Conservatives are tired of being treated worse than second class citizens in the party and the good ole boys are giving us no reason to want to vote for them.
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.” G Washington July 2, 1776


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