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Offline happyg

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« on: August 28, 2013, 09:41:26 PM »

Offline EC

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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2013, 12:59:38 AM »
So bloody obvious this was going to happen.
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Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2013, 03:02:12 AM »
Sadly while everyone on FOX was fawning over the spectacle  in DC today Glenn Beck interviewed a Coptic Christian priest on his program... he told him they need to get out of the ME and he said the US State Department will only give visa's to Muslims, no Christians are receiving visa's...... Beck put him in immediate contact with his editor of The Blaze and said he is going to start pushing it so it will get picked up by other conservative publications on the internet.

Offline EC

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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2013, 03:06:07 AM »
Excellent news! Not over fond of Beck's style, but he has a good heart.

His Holiness has been pressuring the Italian and Brazilian governments to grant visas also. That is what the recent Papal visit to Immigrant Island was all about.
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Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2013, 03:08:33 AM »
Excellent news! Not over fond of Beck's style, but he has a good heart.

His Holiness has been pressuring the Italian and Brazilian governments to grant visas also. That is what the recent Papal visit to Immigrant Island was all about.

As Beck pointed out this is exactly how we treated the Jews when they wanted to escape Europe in WWII

Offline EC

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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2013, 03:17:17 AM »
As Beck pointed out this is exactly how we treated the Jews when they wanted to escape Europe in WWII

Yep. It has a sadly familiar ring to it. Very 1937.  **nononono*

Dumbasses - does no one ever learn history any more?
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Offline aligncare

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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2013, 03:23:32 AM »
I have no doubt that the hopey-changey administration's mishandling of the Middle East has led us to this point. What a loser Obama is. Unfortunately he's dragging America down with him.
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Offline Rapunzel

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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2013, 03:26:14 AM »
I have no doubt that the hopey-changey administration's mishandling of the Middle East has led us to this point. What a loser Obama is. Unfortunately he's dragging America down with him.

Yes and his syncophants at MSNBC are happily encouraging him along... even today on Fox Bill O'Reilly who was against our actions in Iraq and Bob Beckel who called Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld war criminals - never mind we went into that war because of 911 - is saying we HAVE to attack Syria.....

These idiots are just looking for a nuclear weapon to drop on NYC this time.

Offline EC

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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2013, 03:33:37 AM »
These idiots are just looking for a nuclear weapon to drop on NYC this time.

Wouldn't need one. A pound of enriched uranium powder (or a teaspoon of plutonium dust) around a conventional explosive device, set it off and let the wind do the rest. That stuff is lethal. It'd be a suicide run, but  their side seems to have enough of those on hand.
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Offline aligncare

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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2013, 03:38:48 AM »
My head is spinning. So the left is saying Bush's war bad, Obama's war good? Well then, it's obvious what we should do. Except for assisting in Israel's defense, we should get the hell out of the Middle East.
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Offline EC

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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2013, 03:46:02 AM »
My head is spinning. So the left is saying Bush's war bad, Obama's war good? Well then, it's obvious what we should do. Except for assisting in Israel's defense, we should get the hell out of the Middle East.

Can't. Obama's lot turned off domestic production, or at least turned it down to unsustainably low levels. If your biggest oil supplier threatens to turn out the lights, you jump. Just another unintended consequence of the Green movement.
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Offline aligncare

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« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2013, 03:54:26 AM »
Okay, then. Getting out of the Middle East could force Greenies to accept stepped-up domestic exploration and production. A JFK-type challenge that puts us on a path to energy independence by the end of the decade. Why not?
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Offline EC

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« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2013, 04:00:32 AM »
You are assuming they think logically.

Remember the Carter years and the lines for petrol? Remember Obama's own Energy Czar stating $10/gallon gas was what they wanted? Remember the very dubious foreign (oil based) funding to the Democrats?

They will never ramp up domestic production.
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Offline aligncare

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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2013, 04:13:03 AM »
Yes I remember the lines. And when greenies feel the pain of long waits in gas lines, they too will see the wisdom in domestic exploration and production. Suddenly oil wells will start popping up in downtown Los Angeles, and Austin, and Madison, and Spokane, and the upper West side of Manhattan!

Ah, a fella can dream.
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Offline EC

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« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2013, 04:18:50 AM »
I like your dream  :beer:

Thought there are already a ton of oil wells in downtown LA. They are just disguised.
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Offline Oceander

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« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2013, 08:25:08 AM »
Wouldn't need one. A pound of enriched uranium powder (or a teaspoon of plutonium dust) around a conventional explosive device, set it off and let the wind do the rest. That stuff is lethal. It'd be a suicide run, but  their side seems to have enough of those on hand.

Most so-called "dirty bombs" are generally considered to be less lethal than a conventional bomb that generates a blast wave, see wiki article and sources cited.  Obtaining the necessary radiological material is generally considered to be extremely difficult; however, for our purposes we could probably assume that Iran or North Korea would provide the needed radiologicals, which leaves only the question of whether, and how, that material would be smuggled into the US.  My off-the-cuff guess is that one of the drug-smuggling rings would get paid a very, very rich bounty to do the smuggling - leave the hard work to the experts, after all.

On the other hand, a dirty bomb would most likely be a much more effective terror-creating device than a more lethal conventional bomb because of the hysteria with which most people react to apparent radioactive exposure (notwithstanding the fact that a lot of such exposure is generally less lethal than smoking and, presumably, the typical amount of dirty exhaust your typical city dweller inhales, and notwithstanding the examples of Chernobyl, where recent analysis has shown that people who were in the vicinity of Chernobyl - excluding those who were in close proximity to the plant - show negligible effects, see wiki article and source at fn. 4.

A dirty bomb that is "advertised" as a dirty bomb by the terrorists involved would probably create more long-term damage through the fear it created - particularly if the government tried to hush it up precisely because the public would react with hysteria if it knew it was a dirty bomb - than a more lethal conventional bomb.

Offline aligncare

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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2013, 08:41:37 AM »
Good analysis.

We're still dealing with the terror caused by the 9/11 attack. The greatest damage to our economy is not from the initial attack (thought it was great) but from the long-term terror we have about air travel being targeted again. Terrorism works to cripple an economy, as well as innocents.
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Offline Oceander

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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2013, 08:43:35 AM »
Good analysis.

We're still dealing with the terror caused by the 9/11 attack. The greatest damage to our economy is not from the initial attack (thought it was great) but from the long-term terror we have about air travel being targeted again. Terrorism works to cripple an economy, as well as innocents.

Precisely.  And a terror attack is most effective when it forces those attacked to do the actual damage to themselves as the result of their hysterical response to the terror attack.  In short, the terrorists win precisely when a society puts itself under a regime like that created by the PATRIOT Act and the rest of the "security" measures we've implemented in response to the 9/11 attacks.

Offline aligncare

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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2013, 08:49:43 AM »
 :thumbsup:

Box cutters .... crippled air travel and made our lives miserable.
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Offline EC

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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2013, 09:34:26 AM »
Most so-called "dirty bombs" are generally considered to be less lethal than a conventional bomb that generates a blast wave, see wiki article and sources cited.  Obtaining the necessary radiological material is generally considered to be extremely difficult; however, for our purposes we could probably assume that Iran or North Korea would provide the needed radiologicals, which leaves only the question of whether, and how, that material would be smuggled into the US.  My off-the-cuff guess is that one of the drug-smuggling rings would get paid a very, very rich bounty to do the smuggling - leave the hard work to the experts, after all.

On the other hand, a dirty bomb would most likely be a much more effective terror-creating device than a more lethal conventional bomb because of the hysteria with which most people react to apparent radioactive exposure (notwithstanding the fact that a lot of such exposure is generally less lethal than smoking and, presumably, the typical amount of dirty exhaust your typical city dweller inhales, and notwithstanding the examples of Chernobyl, where recent analysis has shown that people who were in the vicinity of Chernobyl - excluding those who were in close proximity to the plant - show negligible effects, see wiki article and source at fn. 4.

A dirty bomb that is "advertised" as a dirty bomb by the terrorists involved would probably create more long-term damage through the fear it created - particularly if the government tried to hush it up precisely because the public would react with hysteria if it knew it was a dirty bomb - than a more lethal conventional bomb.

Thank you!

As always a thoughtful response and one which built on the short post (It's accounts week again)

The thing to remember is most of these jihadi's are not trying to actually kill, though deaths are obviously a huge bonus. They are trying to make people back down. To fear them.

Your second para nails it. One dirty bomb placed upwind of Manhattan and the chaos and loss of life would be immense simply from people trying to leave. Can you imagine the scenes in the tunnels and on the bridges?. It would make the Towers look like a Sunday school picnic. The scare word "Radiation" would be enough. The words, there are three more, would have everyone heading for the hills. Those wouldn't even have to be particularly radioactive. Just enough of a low level isotope to be detectable.

But why stop there? NK has the bomb and they usually work, though not always. I am going out on a limb and betting Iran has at least 1 already, even if they haven't tested it.
I constantly see "Oh, they don't have the delivery system to hit the US. Excuse me? UPS delivers. Not saying literally UPS, but any convenienced flag ship could sail into NY or SF harbors with a nuke on board. It wouldn't even have to be a sophisticated one. These are people who really don't mind blowing themselves up. You honestly think they couldn't find someone to manually press a switch?
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Offline Scottftlc

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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2013, 09:43:53 AM »
Can't. Obama's lot turned off domestic production, or at least turned it down to unsustainably low levels. If your biggest oil supplier threatens to turn out the lights, you jump. Just another unintended consequence of the Green movement.

That consequence of the Green movement is in no way unintended.
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Offline EC

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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 10:30:40 AM »
That consequence of the Green movement is in no way unintended.

Not going to disagree - I haven't looked into it much more than your average educated layman - but I'd remind you of the old adage: "Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity."
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Offline Oceander

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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2013, 11:54:13 PM »
Thank you!

As always a thoughtful response and one which built on the short post (It's accounts week again)

The thing to remember is most of these jihadi's are not trying to actually kill, though deaths are obviously a huge bonus. They are trying to make people back down. To fear them.

Your second para nails it. One dirty bomb placed upwind of Manhattan and the chaos and loss of life would be immense simply from people trying to leave. Can you imagine the scenes in the tunnels and on the bridges?. It would make the Towers look like a Sunday school picnic. The scare word "Radiation" would be enough. The words, there are three more, would have everyone heading for the hills. Those wouldn't even have to be particularly radioactive. Just enough of a low level isotope to be detectable.

But why stop there? NK has the bomb and they usually work, though not always. I am going out on a limb and betting Iran has at least 1 already, even if they haven't tested it.
I constantly see "Oh, they don't have the delivery system to hit the US. Excuse me? UPS delivers. Not saying literally UPS, but any convenienced flag ship could sail into NY or SF harbors with a nuke on board. It wouldn't even have to be a sophisticated one. These are people who really don't mind blowing themselves up. You honestly think they couldn't find someone to manually press a switch?

I've always wondered just how close in a cargo ship coming from a foreign port could get to NYC before it was inspected.  To get the most lethal blast from a nuclear gadget you need an airburst; detonating it at or below ground level tends to confine the blast to a smaller area and a lot of the energy of the blast is spent in throwing dirt into the air.  That being said, detonating a nuclear gadget, even a modest one, in the hold of a cargo ship sitting in NY harbor would have serious consequences to NYC and the surrounding areas of NJ (in fact, since it looks as if most cargo traffic passes only through the lower NY harbor area, and goes into areas closer to NJ, like Newark, for offloading, the worst of the damage would be in NJ).

Offline raml

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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2013, 02:32:36 AM »
The bibles prophecies are never wrong and one of them has Damascus destroyed never to be lived in again. I am beginning to wonder if this is the war it will happen. I just wish we would stay out of it we are pouring gas on a fire and it could well end up in another world war. I also have been thinking a lot lately how no leaders or government ever seems to learn from history they just keep making the same mistakes over and over again and the citizens pay for their mistakes and countries are destroyed

Offline EC

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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2013, 05:28:43 AM »
I've always wondered just how close in a cargo ship coming from a foreign port could get to NYC before it was inspected.  To get the most lethal blast from a nuclear gadget you need an airburst; detonating it at or below ground level tends to confine the blast to a smaller area and a lot of the energy of the blast is spent in throwing dirt into the air.  That being said, detonating a nuclear gadget, even a modest one, in the hold of a cargo ship sitting in NY harbor would have serious consequences to NYC and the surrounding areas of NJ (in fact, since it looks as if most cargo traffic passes only through the lower NY harbor area, and goes into areas closer to NJ, like Newark, for offloading, the worst of the damage would be in NJ).

You might find this site both interesting and instructive: http://www.nuclearterror.org/blastmaps.html

It wouldn't just be the blast itself, though that is devastating enough. Think of the millions of gallons of (now radioactive) water vapor suddenly in the air and at the mercy of the wind.
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