Author Topic: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?  (Read 980 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 32,821
Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« on: July 05, 2013, 09:27:18 PM »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,418
  • Chief Dork
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 12:11:02 AM »
But, can a collection of hybrid offspring maintain a stable interbreeding state - something akin to a stable "breed" in dogs - or not?  If a collection of hybrids cannot maintain some stable "breed" state even as they interbreed, then that collection, as such, is unlikely to be identifiable as a distinct "species" across even two or three generations of interbreeding.

Offline jmyrlefuller

  • Krampus
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,292
  • Angry goat-like creature
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2013, 05:31:25 PM »
But, can a collection of hybrid offspring maintain a stable interbreeding state - something akin to a stable "breed" in dogs - or not?  If a collection of hybrids cannot maintain some stable "breed" state even as they interbreed, then that collection, as such, is unlikely to be identifiable as a distinct "species" across even two or three generations of interbreeding.
IF it could... and that is a big IF... the idea of hybridization is far more plausible of a theory than the current Darwinian concept of random diverging mutations.

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,418
  • Chief Dork
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 11:15:24 PM »
IF it could... and that is a big IF... the idea of hybridization is far more plausible of a theory than the current Darwinian concept of random diverging mutations.

Hybridization would work with Darwinian "selection" and may very well be the grease that makes the whole system run; it wouldn't be a replacement for natural selection.  It may be the capacity to hybridize that would allow individuals with a significant mutation to continue to interbreed with their non-mutated brethren (and sistren) for enough time to build up a stable body of enough similar individuals that the group could begin to successfully diverge from the common root stock.

For example, it seems - to this semi-educated layperson - that the first Cro-Magnon forebears would have had a hard time diverging from the root stock if they were forced to interbreed only with other Cro-Magnon forebears as soon as their accumulating genetic differences (including mutations) became significant enough to mark them out as a new variant/species and not as just some colorful variation on the original root stock.  Without the ability to hybridize with individuals from the existing populations they were diverging from and still maintain their new genetic differences, they would, it seems to me, have either quickly died out - the odds of a few individuals here and there being able to "party" often enough to build up a breeding population would be too small - or else their genetic material would have been folded back into the root-stock genetic pool and remain nothing more than a statistical outlier within that root-stock population.

As an aside, I'm beginning to think that the term "Darwinian" should be retired because the whole corpus and concept of evolution has moved so far beyond where it started with Darwin.  I'm personally in favor of the term "Gouldian" because Stephen J. Gould did quite a lot to both root out the concept that natural selection/evolution is a zero-sum, the fittest wins, sort of game, and to develop much more sophistication and nuance to the theory (e.g., punctuated equilibrium).

Offline kevindavis

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,609
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 09:38:14 PM »
I wonder if we humans have origins from outer space (I call it the BSG Theory)..
To Clear things up...

Mueller has been one of the most respected individuals on the planet over the last 20 years.

Mueller is a Republican

Mueller was appointed by Republicans

Mueller doesn't determine if someone is guilty, The Judge and Jury do!

Get it!!!!

“You can go to live in France, but you can't become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, but you can't become a German... But anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”

- Ronald Reagan

Offline alicewonders

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 13,057
  • Live life-it's too short to butt heads w buttheads
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 10:06:12 PM »
I wonder if we humans have origins from outer space (I call it the BSG Theory)..

Well, that makes me think about the Bible telling us that - the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.  My understanding is that this union produced "giants", and it was after this that God brought about The Great Flood. 

I suppose these giants, such as Goliath would be hybrids.
Don't tread on me.   8888madkitty

We told you Trump would win - bigly!

Offline Oceander

  • Technical
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 47,418
  • Chief Dork
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 11:39:45 PM »
Women are from Venus, Men are from ... well, I don't think we really want to know that, do we?

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 23,836
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2013, 03:22:36 PM »
But, can a collection of hybrid offspring maintain a stable interbreeding state - something akin to a stable "breed" in dogs - or not?  If a collection of hybrids cannot maintain some stable "breed" state even as they interbreed, then that collection, as such, is unlikely to be identifiable as a distinct "species" across even two or three generations of interbreeding.

Look at the coywolf. Hybrid of wolf and coyote, big, fast and with no fear of humans. They breed true. While it is true that exogenesis is a biological imperative, isolation, bad weather or a localized food supply can prevent that from occurring.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline kevindavis

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,609
Re: Human Origins. Are we hybrids?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2013, 01:50:38 PM »
Well, that makes me think about the Bible telling us that - the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.  My understanding is that this union produced "giants", and it was after this that God brought about The Great Flood. 

I suppose these giants, such as Goliath would be hybrids.

Could be..
To Clear things up...

Mueller has been one of the most respected individuals on the planet over the last 20 years.

Mueller is a Republican

Mueller was appointed by Republicans

Mueller doesn't determine if someone is guilty, The Judge and Jury do!

Get it!!!!

“You can go to live in France, but you can't become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany, but you can't become a German... But anyone, from any corner of the world, can come to live in the United States and become an American.”

- Ronald Reagan


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf