Author Topic: Rogers: "Bad Guys" Have Already Changed the Way They Operate Because of Snowden Leaks  (Read 1100 times)

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Offline happyg

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Offline Oceander

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Here's the problem guys:  few people, when honest, will cavil about Snowden:  what he did was wrong; but the thing is, what the government has done - and continues to do - to its citizens - us, joe and jane taxpayer - is not only wrong, it's unconscionable.  In other words, the government has become as evil as the Mr. Snowdens, and because of the power it wields it is not the lesser evil.

When it comes to choosing between two evils, most people will choose the lesser of the two, and Snowden is the lesser evil here.

Offline happyg

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Here's the problem guys:  few people, when honest, will cavil about Snowden:  what he did was wrong; but the thing is, what the government has done - and continues to do - to its citizens - us, joe and jane taxpayer - is not only wrong, it's unconscionable.  In other words, the government has become as evil as the Mr. Snowdens, and because of the power it wields it is not the lesser evil.

When it comes to choosing between two evils, most people will choose the lesser of the two, and Snowden is the lesser evil here.

Good post. Snowden had two choices. Be true to his oath or true to the Constitution. He was in a position where he felt he had to make a choice. Like you, I see Snowden as the lesser of two evils, and Snowden sees what he did as the greater good. I commend him for it.

Offline Rapunzel

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Good post. Snowden had two choices. Be true to his oath or true to the Constitution. He was in a position where he felt he had to make a choice. Like you, I see Snowden as the lesser of two evils, and Snowden sees what he did as the greater good. I commend him for it.

word on both posts

Online truth_seeker

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Two presidents, two VPs, the courts, various congresses and committees approved and implemented these tools, after 9-11-2001.

But now the danger is forgotten, and a man wanted for treason is an echo-chamber hero, contrary to Dick Cheney?

Why get all wound up ten years late? What changed? What examples exist of abuse?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline happyg

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Two presidents, two VPs, the courts, various congresses and committees approved and implemented these tools, after 9-11-2001.

But now the danger is forgotten, and a man wanted for treason is an echo-chamber hero, contrary to Dick Cheney?

Why get all wound up ten years late? What changed? What examples exist of abuse?

I can't speak for this site, but for myself and many others, the Patriot Act was considered a slippery slope, leading what happened under Obama, who took the act to an entirely new area. Though similar, Obama and Bush used the Patriot Act in different ways.

Online truth_seeker

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I can't speak for this site, but for myself and many others, the Patriot Act was considered a slippery slope, leading what happened under Obama, who took the act to an entirely new area. Though similar, Obama and Bush used the Patriot Act in different ways.
Any specifics of abuses during Obama?

Any specifics of differences during Obama vs. Bush?

Is it the job of any private, sergeant or independent contractor to blow the whistle and disclose  top secret national intelligence within his possession?

Or when a subordinate private, sergeant or private contractor think something is amiss, go to his superior and register the concern?

During my time in the military, I knew a couple of men, involved with Conscientious Objector cases. (not me)

One was a 1st Lt. and one low ranking enlisted. Each served every day of his term, doing his assigned job, following the regulations involved. Attorney, court case, etc.

Neither ran off to North Vietnam, Moscow or Beijing.

So at the end of the day for me, I don't care how "justified" Snowden thinks he is, he's doing it entirely the wrong way.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline DCPatriot

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Been thinking about some of the other 'by-products'....in terms of damage...did Snowden actually cause to happen.

For example, we all know that the technology that the government has is 20-30 years AHEAD of what civilians have at their disposal in the home or car.

If these files on his laptops contain the 'know-how' to create this technology, then his crimes are more serious in nature, IMO.

And hope everybody is noticing that the media has stopped referring to Snowden as a Whistleblower.   Now he's being compared to Julius Rosenberg.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Cincinnatus

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...I don't care how "justified" Snowden thinks he is, he's doing it entirely the wrong way

Ok, TS, tell us how you would have done it.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline Rapunzel

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I don't care what Obama has done compared to Bush. I am against data mining our private communications without a freaking warrant........ if they have probable cause then get a warrant and then look... this is why I was not in favor of Homeland Security or the Patriot Act..... everyone said - Oh Bush wouldn't do anything illegal..... well that was not the point..... the point was we have given up way too many of our rights and privacy since 911 all under the name of national security..... all the while this government was clueless about the two Boston Bombers who were right under their nose and Russia even warned them about and not we know they are not even doing this to Muslims in the USA.........same as TSA checking granny at the airport and heaven forbid they look at someone wearing a Hijab........

Offline happyg

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I don't care what Obama has done compared to Bush. I am against data mining our private communications without a freaking warrant........ if they have probable cause then get a warrant and then look... this is why I was not in favor of Homeland Security or the Patriot Act..... everyone said - Oh Bush wouldn't do anything illegal..... well that was not the point..... the point was we have given up way too many of our rights and privacy since 911 all under the name of national security..... all the while this government was clueless about the two Boston Bombers who were right under their nose and Russia even warned them about and not we know they are not even doing this to Muslims in the USA.........same as TSA checking granny at the airport and heaven forbid they look at someone wearing a Hijab........

Bush's biggest fault with the Patriot Act is, he ignored the slippery slope, that gets us every time.

Offline Rapunzel

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Bush's biggest fault with the Patriot Act is, he ignored the slippery slope, that gets us every time.

Exactly...... and it is why we always get in trouble when we get away from the Constitution...... if we had not passed the 17th amendment we would not be fighting the immigration monstrosity right now...... it is always those things our founders saw and put in the stop gaps and we have allowed our elected reps to override that are destroying our Republic.

Online truth_seeker

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...I don't care how "justified" Snowden thinks he is, he's doing it entirely the wrong way

Ok, TS, tell us how you would have done it.

1. Honor and observe terms of employment contract, observe security clearance terms.
2. Complain to immediate superior.
3. Complain to his/her superior.
4. Contact my Congressman & Senator.
5. Resign position.

What a Patriot and law-abiding citizens does NOT do:
--Make classified intelligence held by one's own country, public.
--Run to foreign countries.

Finally one more time--it is NOT the duty of every private, sergeant, independent contractor to decide to make public valuable, classified intelligence documents.

It is at minimum a breach of employment contract, violation of security clearance, IMO an act of treason.

Besides the raw data, the disclosure reveals clues about sources and methods.  That information makes it easier for an enemy to block or avoid our capabilities, etc.

There are former US agents serving life terms, for handing classified material to our enemies.

I'm shocked and disappointed that Republicans are playing games with national security, and in such a transparently partisan manner.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 11:05:06 PM by truth_seeker »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline mountaineer

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Bush isn't the president, Obama is. He's the one responsible.
A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.

Offline happyg

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Quote
It is at minimum a breach of employment contract, violation of security clearance, IMO an act of treason.

Besides the raw data, the disclosure reveals clues about sources and methods.  That information makes it easier for an enemy to block or avoid our capabilities, etc.

There are former US agents serving life terms, for handing classified material to our enemies.

I'm shocked and disappointed that Republicans are playing games with national security, and in such a transparently partisan manner.

We don't know if Snowden revealed material detrimental to  U.S. security. We do know that U.S. citizens were targeted for no reason, and that is unconstitutional. Most of us signed agreements when we got hired, but we didn't promise to break the law for our businesses or corporations. On one hand, Snowden might have been committing treason if he kept quiet. In my opinion, the government committed treason against its own people. It's according to how you perceive your country. For me, it's country first. The government is way down on the list.

Offline DCPatriot

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Quote

For me, it's country first. The government is way down on the list.


 :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk


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