Author Topic: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran  (Read 1326 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« on: June 10, 2013, 11:00:25 AM »
http://www.americanthinker.com/printpage/?url=http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/06/edward_snowden_hero_or_traitor.html

June 10, 2013
Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor?
Rick Moran

You've probably heard by now that the man responsible for the NSA leaks of surveillance programs is a 29-year old high school dropout who was a contract worker for the NSA, Edward Snowden.

Snowden is being lionized by both left and right -- at least, those who are reacting emotionally to his revelations. They are, indeed, serious and dangerous. The potential to make the US a police state is great, as is a loss of any sense of privacy for the individual.

The potential is also there to head off terrorist attacks. And revealing these surveillance programs almost certainly gives terrorists who are paying attention a means to avoid detection.

But Snowden insists he did nothing wrong:

Quote
The man behind the largest leak of classified information in the history of the US National Security Agency (NSA) has chosen to make his identity public, despite the potential consequences for himself and his loved ones. Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old employee of defence contractor Booz Allen Hamilton and former CIA technical assistant, said he had never intended to remain anonymous. "I have no intention of hiding who I am because I know I have done nothing wrong," he said.

The revelation of Snowden's identity came after the US Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, said on Sunday that he had asked the Justice Department to launch a criminal investigation into the leaks, telling NBC News, "It is literally gut-wrenching to see this happening, because of the huge grave damage it does to our intelligence capabilities... this is a key tool for preserving protecting the nation's safety and security."

Snowden's revelations, which he leaked initially to Guardian columnist Glenn Greenwald, included the existence of a growing NSA stockpile of millions of phone records from the US public. According to the top secret documents, the Agency's PRISM programme also gives it "direct access" to files from the servers of major tech companies such as Google and Facebook. This vast data mining operation is supposedly designed to anticipate and prevent terror plots.

Yes, Mr. Snowden, you have done something wrong, as I pointed out in a Tatler post yesterday:

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    Is this really a whistleblower? Snowden swears he doesn't think he did anything wrong. Well, that's a bunch of hooey. Breaking the law is wrong. Breaking your oath of secrecy is wrong. Breaking the trust of your employer is wrong. If he really believed he did nothing wrong, he'd come back to the states voluntarily and see if a jury of his peers agreed with him.

    They won't. They'll throw him in jail for the rest of his life. This is someone who obviously believes the ends justifies the means -- a curious position to take since the CIA and NSA make the same claim all the time. We may hate and fear the surveillance programs, but when you get right down to it, they're legal -- at least as far as the law stands now. The correct remedy is to change the law. How could we change the law if we didn't know the extent of the surveillance?

    I'll get back to you on that.

I don't know the answer to that last question. If the question is should Snowden have leaked such closely held secrets, I would reluctantly answer "yes." But if you are going to deliberately break the law in a civil society, you must be prepared to accept the consequences. Snowden ran away from those consequences. That does not make him a hero in my book. It makes him a criminal. Why didn't Snowden leak the information and then turn himself in? That would have been heroic. Instead, despite his protestations that he doesn't want the story to be about him, he comes off as a glory hound, an attention getter.

If you belive the ends justifies the means, then the rule of law is meaningless. We've had administrations in the past use that excuse, as well as intelligence agencies and the military. Whatever good we think may flow from his criminal acts, we cannot justify them or applaud them - especially since we don't know if these revelations will prove to be catastrophic in the sense that they might facilitate a terrorist attack that may otherwise have been thwarted.

No easy answers. And the questions raised by Snowden's actions aren't a cakewalk either. But what's done is done - whatever his reasons and motivations. Let the law deal with Snowden while we debate what he has revealed and try to salvage a proper balance between surveillance and privacy.

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 11:05:01 AM »
All those siding with Snowden had better rethink.  Pasty-faced attention-whores like him place the rest of us in peril.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 11:10:00 AM »
Quote

In a note accompanying the first set of documents he provided, he wrote: "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

He's the very definition of a "HERO".
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Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 11:28:11 AM »
Most disgusting of all is Peter King assuring us that there is no problem with the data collection. That the administration is making sure our privacy is not violated.

Talk about a traitor, there is no single republican more despicable than Peter King.

He went on to assure us that the Court reviews and approves this data collection every three months.

That may be but what the Court is told about the data mining clearly not what is really being collected. 

Is King suggesting that the surveilling of James Rosen's phone calls, emails, and his parents phone calls is acceptable.


Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 11:31:32 AM »
All those siding with Snowden had better rethink.  Pasty-faced attention-whores like him place the rest of us in peril.

Time to get back on your meds.   It's this corrupt administration that puts us all in peril with their twisted priorities.

The Brits are insisting that they were the ones tipping us off on Zazi.   

Where was this administration during the Times Square bombing attempt.  Where were they during the crotch bombing attempt.  Where were they in Boston.

Too busy surveilling the tea parties, the returning vets, catholic churches against Obama care and other PATRIOTS.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 11:31:58 AM »
If this douche is not a traitor then the word means nothing. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 12:10:01 PM »
If this douche is not a traitor then the word means nothing.

Why not "whistleblower"?  Why not?
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Offline Oceander

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 02:11:49 PM »
If this douche is not a traitor then the word means nothing. 

The American Founders were traitors too; does that make George Washington a douche?

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 03:10:41 PM »
The American Founders were traitors too; does that make George Washington a douche?

Yes.  Of course.  The "hero" is hiding out in a Communist country, hoping he doesn't have to actually face the music for his treason.

Some "hero."
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Oceander

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 03:25:34 PM »
Yes.  Of course.  The "hero" is hiding out in a Communist country, hoping he doesn't have to actually face the music for his treason.

Some "hero."

I didn't say he was a hero, I simply challenged your all-too-facile, knee-jerk dismissal of his actions.  Furthermore, if one reasonably fears for one's life from the US, what better shelter of convenience than a place such as Hong Kong?

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 03:44:26 PM »
Yes.  Of course.  The "hero" is hiding out in a Communist country, hoping he doesn't have to actually face the music for his treason.

Some "hero."

Actually, the latest word is he's trying for Iceland.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 04:08:30 PM »
Actually, the latest word is he's trying for Iceland.

Yes.  Iceland is typically where heroes hide.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline EC

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 10:39:14 PM »
If this douche is not a traitor then the word means nothing.

He's both and neither.

Yes, he is a traitor. He broke an oath he swore in supposedly good faith, which may lead to problems down the road.

Yes he is a hero. The people he swore the oath to were disregarding their own sworn oaths to the constitution and the public.

Personally, I consider him a fool. There are channels to use to report things like this. Report through the correct channels and reserve leaking the details if the official channels decide not to investigate. (It happens - see other scandal watch today)
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Offline happyg

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2013, 10:51:07 PM »
I'm ambivalent about him. Soldiers take an oath, but are not forced to follow illegal orders. Sometimes, you have to break your oath for the good of the situation.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2013, 10:55:14 PM »
I'm ambivalent about him. Soldiers take an oath, but are not forced to follow illegal orders. Sometimes, you have to break your oath for the good of the situation.

I can think of many instances where an oath should be broken.

How about a priest's duty to keep whatever he hears in a confessional...secret.

What if Ariel Castro...who kidnapped those three girls in Cleveland, confessed to you during confession?

Is the priest a hero in that case?  Or is he a traitor?   
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline EC

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2013, 11:00:10 PM »
I can think of many instances where an oath should be broken.

How about a priest's duty to keep whatever he hears in a confessional...secret.

What if Ariel Castro...who kidnapped those three girls in Cleveland, confessed to you during confession?

Is the priest a hero in that case?  Or is he a traitor?   

No, that is actually covered. If it is in the confessional you may not repeat it to a third party. End of story. The priest is supposed to advise and encourage confession to the secular authorities as part of penance and may refuse to hear the person's confession again until that happens.
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Offline happyg

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2013, 11:00:40 PM »
I can think of many instances where an oath should be broken.

How about a priest's duty to keep whatever he hears in a confessional...secret.

What if Ariel Castro...who kidnapped those three girls in Cleveland, confessed to you during confession?

Is the priest a hero in that case?  Or is he a traitor?   

Good post! It makes one think. I would say he is a hero, but then again, someone who committed  a lesser crime, might be reluctant to go to confession. How could a priest, in good conscience, allow those women to continue to be tortured?  I'm glad I'm not a priest.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2013, 11:08:30 PM »
I'm no longer certain I even consider Julian Assuage a bad guy.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Edward Snowden: Hero? Or Traitor? Rick Moran
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2013, 01:19:24 AM »
How about a priest's duty to keep whatever he hears in a confessional...secret.

A movie made in 1953 was based on that very premise. Entitled "I Confess", it starred Montgomery Clift and was directed by Alfred Hitchcock.
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