Author Topic: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)  (Read 3638 times)

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Offline AbaraXas

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One could predict it as easily as they predicted a sunrise. As soon as the stories of the Obama administration wiretapping, data collection, and electronic surveillance came out, the first cries were "Bush's Fault".  It has even become common knowledge that everything that Obama did was completely due to the Patriot Act, but is that really true?

If we want to look back at the root of the domestic surveillance laws used in this case, we shouldn't look at President Bush, but at his predecessor, President Clinton.

The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) is a United States wiretapping law passed in 1994, during the presidency of Bill Clinton (Pub. L. No. 103-414, 108 Stat. 4279, codified at 47 USC 1001-1010).
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CALEA's purpose is to enhance the ability of law enforcement and intelligence agencies to conduct electronic surveillance by requiring that telecommunications carriers and manufacturers of telecommunications equipment modify and design their equipment, facilities, and services to ensure that they have built-in surveillance capabilities, allowing federal agencies to monitor all telephone, broadband internet, and VoIP traffic in real-time.

Can the Patriot Act, with all its flaws, really have fault here. While there are a lot of faults with the Patriot Act, the one thing it did in regards to surveillance was simply strengthen FISA laws. If we were to just look at the Patriot Act and not CALEA, there would not be legal justification for the wiretapping under President Obama.

What do the FISA laws referenced under the Patriot Act have to say about this?
50 U.S.C. ch. 36 (laws governing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) subsection 1802 specifically states that it can only be used for:

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the acquisition of the contents of communications transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title; or

(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than the spoken communications of individuals, from property or premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign power, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title;


It prohibits the domestic, blanket uses as what we see here.

At that, subsection 1802, clause B states:
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...there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party...

In other words, information gathering of this type, even if signed by a FISA appointed judge, directly violates FISA laws.

So let's all tip our hat to who we can thank for the origin of all this and stop blaming Bush.


Offline happyg

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2013, 12:32:05 PM »
Good posting, Abaraxas. Do you mind if I repost it on FB?

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2013, 12:40:27 PM »
Good posting, Abaraxas. Do you mind if I repost it on FB?

Please do, that is exactly why I put all this down in one post. To make it easier on me to share.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2013, 12:43:59 PM »
Good posting, Abaraxas. Do you mind if I repost it on FB?

Link it here please..

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Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2013, 12:45:39 PM »
Link it here please..

I think that's why it has so many views in a short period of time, back links from Facebook and Twitter.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2013, 12:46:54 PM »
A certain other site needs this as well. They have been talking more about Bush and the Patriot Act on this than they have Obama.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2013, 12:54:46 PM »
If we were to just look at the Patriot Act and not CALEA, there would not be legal justification for the wiretapping under President Obama.

There is no "wiretapping."  The NSA must go back to the FISA court to get authorization to monitor content of phone calls.

It is clear also that the Patriot Act allows the monitoring of phone calls, and the content of those calls, between foreign entities and domestic persons if a FISA court determines that there is a high  likelihood of terrorist involvement.  Mike Rogers, Republican head of the House Intelligence Committee, said as much this morning.

So, you are incorrect.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline happyg

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2013, 12:56:06 PM »

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2013, 12:56:14 PM »
If we were to just look at the Patriot Act and not CALEA, there would not be legal justification for the wiretapping under President Obama.

There is no "wiretapping."  The NSA must go back to the FISA court to get authorization to monitor content of phone calls.

It is clear also that the Patriot Act allows the monitoring of phone calls, and the content of those calls, between foreign entities and domestic persons if a FISA court determines that there is a high  likelihood of terrorist involvement.  Mike Rogers, Republican head of the House Intelligence Committee, said as much this morning.

So, you are incorrect.

You missed the point entirely regarding what is happening now. This isn't foreign surveillance but solely domestic surveillance. it falls under CALEA, not FISA.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2013, 01:05:48 PM »
You missed the point entirely regarding what is happening now. This isn't foreign surveillance but solely domestic surveillance. it falls under CALEA, not FISA.

Really?  Then explain the lack of outrage from Congress members who actually know what is going on.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline AbaraXas

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2013, 01:07:53 PM »
Really?  Then explain the lack of outrage from Congress members who actually know what is going on.

If you expect anyone in government (with a few exceptions like Rand Paul, Louie Gohmert, or Ted Cruz) to actually stand up for anything, I have a ice cream cone pooping unicorn to sell you.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2013, 01:16:29 PM »
If you expect anyone in government (with a few exceptions like Rand Paul, Louie Gohmert, or Ted Cruz) to actually stand up for anything, I have a ice cream cone pooping unicorn to sell you.

With all due respect, Mike Rogers is a serious conservative politician.  He is the head of the House Intelligence Committee.  His views on this matter are a lot more informed than those of Paul, Gohmert, or Cruz.

Rand Paul is a libertarian who, like his father, believes that any pre-emption of terrorist activity is a violation of civil rights.  The rest of the country does not, thankfully, agree with him.  I'm  unfamiliar with Gohmert's views on the present controversy. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline happyg

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2013, 01:53:20 PM »
With all due respect, Mike Rogers is a serious conservative politician.  He is the head of the House Intelligence Committee.  His views on this matter are a lot more informed than those of Paul, Gohmert, or Cruz.

Rand Paul is a libertarian who, like his father, believes that any pre-emption of terrorist activity is a violation of civil rights.  The rest of the country does not, thankfully, agree with him.  I'm  unfamiliar with Gohmert's views on the present controversy.

Rogers and Feinstein said the wiretapping led to the terrorist activity, which is not true. I believe it was the British who found the unusual activities and reported it to the US.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2013, 03:05:47 PM »
Rogers and Feinstein said the wiretapping led to the terrorist activity, which is not true. I believe it was the British who found the unusual activities and reported it to the US.

Of course.  Feinstein and Rogers are both liars.

Sheesh.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline happyg

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2013, 03:16:58 PM »
Of course.  Feinstein and Rogers are both liars.

Sheesh.

I never said they lied, but they are wrong.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2013, 03:21:38 PM »
I never said they lied, but they are wrong.

Of course they're wrong.  Internet jockeys are ALWAYS right.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline happyg

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2013, 03:38:25 PM »
Of course they're wrong.  Internet jockeys are ALWAYS right.

I never said that, either.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2013, 03:44:57 PM »
I never said that, either.

You posited that Rogers and Feinstein were wrong (they lied on national television) but provided no evidence.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline happyg

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2013, 03:53:39 PM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuET0kpHoyM&amp;feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuET0kpHoyM&amp;feature=player_detailpage</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=6PIPHNlAxY4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=6PIPHNlAxY4</a>

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2013, 03:57:58 PM »
Real powerful stuff there. 

Not.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2013, 03:58:23 PM »
You posited that Rogers and Feinstein were wrong (they lied on national television) but provided no evidence.

Well you said that in 1984 Dr Ron Paul claimed President Reagan was responsible for the "Ice Cream" lists somehow making their way into government hands but have yet to provide any evidence.

I'm believing that Ronald Reagan ordered the confiscation of Free Sundae lists from ice cream stores

Note you didn't say he was responsible for it because he was President. You said he ORDERED it.

Proof please.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2013, 04:03:44 PM »
You posited that Rogers and Feinstein were wrong (they lied on national television) but provided no evidence.

Well you said that in 1984 Dr Ron Paul claimed President Reagan was responsible for the "Ice Cream" lists somehow making their way into government hands but have yet to provide any evidence.

I'm believing that Ronald Reagan ordered the confiscation of Free Sundae lists from ice cream stores

Note you didn't say he was responsible for it because he was President. You said he ORDERED it.

Proof please.

That was tongue in cheek.  Sorry it went over your head.  It was Dr. Paul who provided no evidence that "Free Sundae" lists somehow ended up in the hands of the government.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Obama's Wiretapping. Blame Bush! Not So Fast.... (GOPBR Exclusive)
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2013, 04:27:05 PM »
Really?  Then explain the lack of outrage from Congress members who actually know what is going on.

Hmmm.....seems that the 13 times Obama has claimed he notified Congress....it was only the Committee members.  What?  Eight?  Nine?

What about the other 427?

Because if the full membership was advised, it would have been 'killed' long ago.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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