Author Topic: IT GETS WORSE: Google, Microsoft, Apple Allowed Government To 'Watch Your Ideas Form As You Type'  (Read 1719 times)

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Offline AbaraXas

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Offline sinkspur

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If this was done with the approval of a FISA judge, it is perfectly legal under the Patriot Act.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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If this was done with the approval of a FISA judge, it is perfectly legal under the Patriot Act.
However, it is constitutionally questionable, depending on how you interpret the Fourth Amendment protections from search and seizure.

Offline sinkspur

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However, it is constitutionally questionable, depending on how you interpret the Fourth Amendment protections from search and seizure.

It has already been contested.  The Supreme Court has given wide latitude to electronic surveillance when it comes to tracking terrorism.

I'm all for changing the Patriot Act.  I don't trust the Obama administration.  I don't trust any administration, really, to pry into personal information.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline AbaraXas

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If this was done with the approval of a FISA judge, it is perfectly legal under the Patriot Act.

Actually not.  50 U.S.C. ch. 36 (laws governing the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) subsection 1802 specifically states that it can only be used for:

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the acquisition of the contents of communications transmitted by means of communications used exclusively between or among foreign powers, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title; or
(ii) the acquisition of technical intelligence, other than the spoken communications of individuals, from property or premises under the open and exclusive control of a foreign power, as defined in section 1801 (a)(1), (2), or (3) of this title;

It prohibits the domestic, blanket uses as what we see here.

At that, subsection 1802, clause B states:
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there is no substantial likelihood that the surveillance will acquire the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party

In other words, information gathering of this type, even if signed by a FISA appointed judge, directly violates FISA laws.

Offline AbaraXas

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It has already been contested.  The Supreme Court has given wide latitude to electronic surveillance when it comes to tracking terrorism.

I'm all for changing the Patriot Act.  I don't trust the Obama administration.  I don't trust any administration, really, to pry into personal information.

The SCOTUS FISCR Ruling of August 2008 specifically addressed the foreign wiretapping under Bush that was at issue. This does fall under FISA rules I stated in the previous post but is not germane in this situation in which it is all domestic and violates 1802 clause B.

Offline sinkspur

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The SCOTUS FISCR Ruling of August 2008 specifically addressed the foreign wiretapping under Bush that was at issue. This does fall under FISA rules I stated in the previous post but is not germane in this situation in which it is all domestic and violates 1802 clause B.

Then file a lawsuit. Even Andy McCarthy of National Review, who despises Obama, says that these metadata gathering methods are pefectly legal.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Cincinnatus

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Then file a lawsuit.

Another instance of hyperbole by Sinkspur. I hardly think AbaraXas has standing unless it would be part of a class action suit and he can show his own private communications were intercepted. No, this is more properly dealt with by Congressional inquiry possibly leading to criminal proceedings, but not by Holder's DOJ. A special prosecutor, as much as I dislike the idea, may eventually be needed.
We shall never be abandoned by Heaven while we act worthy of its aid ~~ Samuel Adams

Offline AbaraXas

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Then file a lawsuit. Even Andy McCarthy of National Review, who despises Obama, says that these metadata gathering methods are pefectly legal.

Thanks for the reminder that the 64th anniversary of the publication of George Orwell's 1984 is Saturday.

famousdayandyear

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Question:  I was under the impression that the NSA's mission is solely in the FOREIGN arena --not domestic?  Guess I'm just stoopid, or maybe we've been lied to. :thud:

Offline AbaraXas

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Question:  I was under the impression that the NSA's mission is solely in the FOREIGN arena --not domestic?  Guess I'm just stoopid, or maybe we've been lied to. :thud:

You are correct. See above for the laws governing FISA. It is strictly foreign.

famousdayandyear

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You are correct. See above for the laws governing FISA. It is strictly foreign.

Should have read the posts more closely than I did, obviously.

Another question, if the NSA is so good at this, why were the bombings in Boston not detected before hand....or Nidal Hasan before he snuffed out our troops?   Sounds like they must be still working on processing torrents successfully.

Offline AbaraXas

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Should have read the posts more closely than I did, obviously.

Another question, if the NSA is so good at this, why were the bombings in Boston not detected before hand....or Nidal Hasan before he snuffed out our troops?   Sounds like they must be still working on processing torrents successfully.

They want you to think they are good at it, but they have lost focus. During the Cold War, they were able to specifically target real risk threats.  Now, they can't profile risks or they fall under the political traps of making mass groups (NRA, Tea Party, etc) as 'risk threats' so they get into a situation called data asphyxiation.  They literally collect so much data with so little focus, they drown in it.

They can do a lot of state of the art technical things to gather data, but they have lost the skills or compass to work with it.

They could collect every single word said on every phone and typed on every computer around the world. It would be an amazing technical feat but it would be completely useless.

 :seeya: ::waives Hi to NSA snoopers::

Offline sinkspur

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Thanks for the reminder that the 64th anniversary of the publication of George Orwell's 1984 is Saturday.

Tell me why not a single Congressperson on either Intelligence Committee is the least bit concerned about any of this.  They've been briefed on a regular basis.  You can bet Republicans would be outraged if there were anything untoward about this.

Anytime I found myself on the same side as Media Matters, I'd wonder why.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

famousdayandyear

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Offline Atomic Cow

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Truly, nothing on the Internet is private which is why I avoid things like Facebook or putting a lot about myself online.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline AbaraXas

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Remember about a week or so ago, Drudge's editor tweeted that the White House had something they were scared to death of coming out. I wonder if today is the culmination of that?

famousdayandyear

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From Drudge:  Internet From Hell


Offline AbaraXas

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Famous
I'll give you another thought to chew on. Everyone is focusing on the 'spying' aspect to catch you in what you are saying or believe. There is another thing to look at. I actually have some experience with this partnering with a company called Acxiom years ago. Data mining can optimize predictive marketing.

Instead of 'punishing' wrong-think, control thinking through very predictive and targeted marketing campaigns.

I will dig up my notes and post more about this but to give you something that will make you think, I saw a video demonstration at the aforementioned company of a test a marketing company did with them to show the power of predictive, subliminal marketing. They used the Times Square video billboard as the delivery method and had a demonstration on how they increased orange juice sales at the McDonalds in Times Square over 400% in a one hour period simply by putting in some suggestions in a completely unrelated commercial on the video screen a half block away. It was a combinations of slight color changes, a few words thrown in some sports commercial I think (can't remember the details, just the results). They played the commercial then had a live sales graph going for the next hour. In the middle of the afternoon, when they may sell a couple of OJs, if any at all, person after person walked in asking for one.

Imagine what these type of experts could do on a national, political level with any issue with the amount of data we are talking about.

famousdayandyear

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Abar--

Interesting marketing tool.  Also, lends itself (even just the IDEA of implementation) to a powerful psyops operation.

Probably TMI--switching gateways (SS7 over SIP or IP6) are available w LE access nodes.


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