The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: ABX on March 14, 2019, 12:50:15 PM

Title: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: ABX on March 14, 2019, 12:50:15 PM
It is a good start. Time to take a chainsaw to entitlements.

Quote
This past Monday, March 11, President Trump unveiled his fiscal 2020 budget proposal for the federal government. As a reminder, fiscal years for the federal government end on Sept. 30 and begin on Oct. 1. Unveiling a budget months in advance of the actual implementation is supposed to allow Congress to make tweaks, as needed, to get a yearlong budget passed....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/trump-outlines-a-significant-social-security-cut-in-his-2020-budget/ar-BBUKQ48?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/retirement/trump-outlines-a-significant-social-security-cut-in-his-2020-budget/ar-BBUKQ48?ocid=spartanntp)


Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 14, 2019, 01:11:53 PM
Quote

In particular, political opponents of the president focused on a handful of proposed cuts to social programs, which go against Trump's campaign promises in 2016 not to touch so-called entitlement programs like Medicare and Social Security.

Contained within the president's budget were calls for about $1.5 trillion in cuts to Medicaid over the next 10 years, which would be achieved by moving payouts to block grants; an $845 billion reduction to Medicare spending over the next decade that targets a decrease in wasteful spending via lower prescription drug costs; and -- surprise -- a roughly $26 billion decrease in Social Security spending over the next 10 years.
Big change to Social Security's disability program

While Trump's budget proposal aims to curtail a number of perceived inefficiencies with the Social Security program, the bulk of the savings ($10 billion total between 2020 and 2029) are expected to be realized from a single change to the Social Security Disability Insurance program.

I must question calling something people paid for an "entitlement", either that or find something else to call welfare.
In this case, there are some intelligent changes that can be made to the programs which will save money, but I'd bet that some real savings could be realized if those not Citizens were no longer eligible for (or limited in the duration of) welfare benefits.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 14, 2019, 01:22:22 PM
I must question calling something people paid for an "entitlement", either that or find something else to call welfare.
In this case, there are some intelligent changes that can be made to the programs which will save money, but I'd bet that some real savings could be realized if those not Citizens were no longer eligible for (or limited in the duration of) welfare benefits.

Regarding Social Security, illegal immigrants with phony SSNs have somewhat notoriously been propping it up,  with they (and their employers) paying into the system but ineligible to collect benefits. For 2010, for example,  the Social Security Administration estimated that illegal immigrants and their employers paid $13 billion in required social security payroll taxes! 
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: jafo2010 on March 14, 2019, 01:25:16 PM
Disability has been abused for many years.  1 in 8 are out on disability.  Pure nonsense.

And the abuse in Medicare and Medicaid is rampant, and the government has done very little for decades to stop it.

And Social Security is not an entitlement.  Money into SS comes directly from the wages of workers paying into it.  And the real return for that investment is about 1%.  Congress betrayed Americans once again by providing Social Security for many who never paid a dime into the program.  Insanity!  Yet I know a number of Americans that did not work 40 months and got nothing.  One friend was short 3 months and never collected a dime.  Fortunately for her, her husband had an executive position where the compensation was very nice.
 
I also know many immigrants ciollecting SS and never paid a dime into it to be eleigble.  This is flat out wrong.  Again, Congress stealing the funds in SS earmarked for American workers and giving it away to others.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 14, 2019, 01:26:50 PM
Regarding Social Security, illegal immigrants with phony SSNs have somewhat notoriously been propping it up,  with they (and their employers) paying into the system but ineligible to collect benefits.   
I have paid in since I was 14. Don't think those illegals haven't found a way to get money out, too. Why are they (in their allegedly miniscule numbers) "notoriously propping up" something most working Americans have paid into their whole lives?

Most work for cash.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 14, 2019, 01:27:45 PM
I also know many immigrants ciollecting SS and never paid a dime into it to be eligble. 

That's incorrect.  To collect Social Security you must pay into it.   Actually, as explained in my post above, the exact opposite is true.   Illegals help support the SS trust fund,  but aren't eligible for benefits.   
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 14, 2019, 01:29:52 PM
I have paid in since I was 14. Don't think those illegals haven't found a way to get money out, too. Why are they (in their allegedly miniscule numbers) "notoriously propping up" something most working Americans have paid into their whole lives?

Most work for cash.

Some work for cash.   But plenty pay SS taxes along with their employers.  To the tune of at least $13 billion a year.  That's not "miniscule".   They help pay to support YOUR Social Security;  they cannot collect themselves.   
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 14, 2019, 01:32:46 PM
Some work for cash.   But plenty pay SS taxes along with their employers.  To the tune of at least $13 billion a year.  That's not "miniscule".   They help pay to support YOUR Social Security;  they cannot collect themselves.   
LOL! At the rate this sh*t is going, by the time I can collect, there won't be any.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: jafo2010 on March 14, 2019, 01:34:50 PM
I think part of the reason Congress has done nothing on illegal invading aliens is because the real number is much higher than what we are told.  They have been saying 11-12 million for over a decade, and in that time alone, there has been that many come across the border.  I suspect the real number is upwards of 30-40 million.

They are everywhere now.  To give them blanket amnesty is a betrayal to those that come here legally and wait many years and spend large sums of money to get here.

The only answer is that they must return to their country first and apply like everyone else.  Short of that, they should be deported. 

And the Democommies saying it is not a crisis are betraying the USA citizenry with that mindset, but they are good at doing that.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 14, 2019, 01:46:09 PM
I think part of the reason Congress has done nothing on illegal invading aliens is because the real number is much higher than what we are told.  They have been saying 11-12 million for over a decade, and in that time alone, there has been that many come across the border.  I suspect the real number is upwards of 30-40 million.

They are everywhere now.  To give them blanket amnesty is a betrayal to those that come here legally and wait many years and spend large sums of money to get here.


Either you decide to address the problem, or just continue to talk about it while it gets worse.    Amnesty will be part of any realistic solution.   The numbers you cite are the reason why.   
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 14, 2019, 01:48:34 PM
LOL! At the rate this sh*t is going, by the time I can collect, there won't be any.

The SS funding crisis is less challenging to solve than the Medicare funding crisis.   Of course, it was real easy to solve a few years ago.   The longer we wait, the more we risk having to cut benefits.    At least this is a problem where our unwillingness to address illegals is actually helping!   
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Smokin Joe on March 14, 2019, 01:50:11 PM
The SS funding crisis is less challenging to solve than the Medicare funding crisis.   Of course, it was real easy to solve a few years ago.   The longer we wait, the more we risk having to cut benefits.    At least this is a problem where our unwillingness to address illegals is actually helping!
No, it isn't helping, it is only delaying the inevitable. On balance, the illegals will cost more. Get the illegals out.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: XenaLee on March 14, 2019, 02:28:15 PM
Regarding Social Security, illegal immigrants with phony SSNs have somewhat notoriously been propping it up,  with they (and their employers) paying into the system but ineligible to collect benefits. For 2010, for example,  the Social Security Administration estimated that illegal immigrants and their employers paid $13 billion in required social security payroll taxes!

Big damned deal.   They're getting off light, tax-wise, by only paying SSN taxes.  And... they are committing FRAUD.  Cry me a river.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on March 14, 2019, 07:30:52 PM
That's incorrect.  To collect Social Security you must pay into it.   Actually, as explained in my post above, the exact opposite is true.   Illegals help support the SS trust fund,  but aren't eligible for benefits.
And you do not know what you are talking about.

One does not have to pay into it.  My spouse is collecting and never made any payments.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: libertybele on March 14, 2019, 07:55:04 PM
That's incorrect.  To collect Social Security you must pay into it.   Actually, as explained in my post above, the exact opposite is true.   Illegals help support the SS trust fund,  but aren't eligible for benefits.

I declare B.S.  Bigly!
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 14, 2019, 08:13:35 PM
Wise move to propose common-sense tightening of disability rules. Everyone knows someone who is cheating the system, and very few condone it.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 14, 2019, 10:35:09 PM
Quote from: IsailedawayfromFRlink=topic=354659.msg1938546#msg1938546 date=1552606252
And you do not know what you are talking about.

One does not have to pay into it.  My spouse is collecting and never made any payments.

Kindly explain.   Unless your status is that of a beneficiary,   you have to pay into the system to collect benefits.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 15, 2019, 08:43:56 AM
Kindly explain.   Unless your status is that of a beneficiary,   you have to pay into the system to collect benefits.

I think the point is that you can be a beneficiary without ever paying anything into the system. e.g. some people question the fairness of a spouse who never worked collecting more than someone who paid into the system for 45 years...
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 15, 2019, 09:19:30 AM
I think the point is that you can be a beneficiary without ever paying anything into the system. e.g. some people question the fairness of a spouse who never worked collecting more than someone who paid into the system for 45 years...

Huh?    If you buy an insurance policy and your beneficiary receives the proceeds, how is that unfair?   

Would you prefer that SS cut benefits for beneficiaries?    As with any traditional pension,  it is quite common for a worker to pay in for 40 years, and then die before he's old enough to collect, or less than a year after he starts to collect.   What's unfair to allow his widow to receive payments in that situation?

A bit less deliberate misinformation about Social Security would be appreciated.   

Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on March 15, 2019, 09:35:52 AM
Kindly explain.   Unless your status is that of a beneficiary,   you have to pay into the system to collect benefits.
How about reading what is on the Social Security website instead of me educating you?

https://faq.ssa.gov/en-US/Topic/article/KA-02011

You can also ask the millions of folks out there receiving SS and did not pay in.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 15, 2019, 09:46:37 AM
How about reading what is on the Social Security website instead of me educating you?

https://faq.ssa.gov/en-US/Topic/article/KA-02011

You can also ask the millions of folks out there receiving SS and did not pay in.

I don't need your "education".  That's because you're being deliberately dishonest.   

Again - illegals (and their employers) pay into the system but are ineligible to collect.  To the tune of $13 billion per year, it appears,  illegals help pay for your benefits.

 That's a completely different situation than your ignorant comparison to a widow's benefit (which is, of course, derivative of the benefit the worker earned by paying into the system, just as it with a private pension.)
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: mrpotatohead on March 15, 2019, 09:57:11 AM
I find it interesting that I was for cutting SS benefits when I was younger.  Now that I'm slowly approaching the age of benefits I'm thinking...KEEP YOUR FRIGGEN HANDS OFF OF IT....lol.

The same with Medicare.  I'm amazed that with Medicare and a supplement my 88 yr old mom has paid ZERO out of pocket for multiple recent hospital stays, that would have otherwise bankrupted her.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: XenaLee on March 15, 2019, 10:29:41 AM
I don't need your "education".  That's because you're being deliberately dishonest.   

Again - illegals (and their employers) pay into the system but are ineligible to collect. To the tune of $13 billion per year, it appears,  illegals help pay for your benefits.

 That's a completely different situation than your ignorant comparison to a widow's benefit (which is, of course, derivative of the benefit the worker earned by paying into the system, just as it with a private pension.)

And again..... illegals that do so are committing fraud and as such, should not be martyred for having paid into a system that they are not supposed to be paying into.   They are completely skating when it comes to paying income taxes and many of them are getting more freebies and benefits than some legal citizens are getting via the earned income tax credit. 
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 15, 2019, 10:38:57 AM
I find it interesting that I was for cutting SS benefits when I was younger.  Now that I'm slowly approaching the age of benefits I'm thinking...KEEP YOUR FRIGGEN HANDS OFF OF IT....lol.

The same with Medicare.  I'm amazed that with Medicare and a supplement my 88 yr old mom has paid ZERO out of pocket for multiple recent hospital stays, that would have otherwise bankrupted her.

Same here.  I used to be in favor of GOP proposals to permit SS taxes to be diverted to individual accounts.   Not any longer.   30-plus years dealing with employee benefit plans has taught me that SS is absolutely vital to provide income security in old age.  401(k) plans are great for promoting savings and wealth creation.  But with the private pension system dying,  the only source of true income security for most Americans is Social Security.   
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 15, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
And again..... illegals that do so are committing fraud and as such, should not be martyred for having paid into a system that they are not supposed to be paying into.   They are completely skating when it comes to paying income taxes and many of them are getting more freebies and benefits than some legal citizens are getting via the earned income tax credit.

I'm not suggesting that illegals be permitted to collect SS benefits.   But the reality is that they (and their employers) pay billions into the system, and indirectly subsidize your and my benefits.   Ironic, no? 
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 15, 2019, 10:43:41 AM
Huh?    If you buy an insurance policy and your beneficiary receives the proceeds, how is that unfair?   

Would you prefer that SS cut benefits for beneficiaries?    As with any traditional pension,  it is quite common for a worker to pay in for 40 years, and then die before he's old enough to collect, or less than a year after he starts to collect.   What's unfair to allow his widow to receive payments in that situation?

A bit less deliberate misinformation about Social Security would be appreciated.

I'm referring to the spousal benefit, not survivorship. Maybe you're not aware that a couple can receive a second benefit even if only 1 paid in?

And I didn't say that I thought it was unfair, I simply stated the well-known fact that many people DO think it's unfair...
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: GtHawk on March 15, 2019, 01:28:12 PM
I'm not suggesting that illegals be permitted to collect SS benefits.   But the reality is that they (and their employers) pay billions into the system, and indirectly subsidize your and my benefits.   Ironic, no?
And they take out more in government benefits not do to actual legal Americans so in essence putting money into one pocket while stealing it out of another. You are also cherry picking in your argument. Fact is illegals are net takers..............period!
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: XenaLee on March 15, 2019, 01:30:45 PM
I'm not suggesting that illegals be permitted to collect SS benefits.   But the reality is that they (and their employers) pay billions into the system, and indirectly subsidize your and my benefits.   Ironic, no?

Billions?  I'm gonna need a link to the statistics on that one, Jazz.

Fact is... if they were paying into the system as they should be.... as LEGAL citizens, they still probably wouldn't be paying back as much as they and their entire families are 'drawing' from the system.  Facts hurt.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: libertybele on March 15, 2019, 01:40:32 PM
I'm referring to the spousal benefit, not survivorship. Maybe you're not aware that a couple can receive a second benefit even if only 1 paid in?

And I didn't say that I thought it was unfair, I simply stated the well-known fact that many people DO think it's unfair...

I am collecting a spousal benefit.  I paid into social security and am collecting my social security along with a spousal benefit.  The spousal benefit is very minimal.  I might be able to buy a tank of gas with it and we might be able to go for an ice cream cone somewhere once a month.  That's about it folks.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: libertybele on March 15, 2019, 01:57:23 PM
LOL! At the rate this sh*t is going, by the time I can collect, there won't be any.

I hear what you are saying.  I applied for SS a few years early and so far I am glad that I did.  Age of benefits just got extended out as well as the number of work credits needed increased -- both can reduce benefits. The only way that I would have started to actually come out ahead was waiting till I was 69 or 70 and health was a consideration for me as well. Like you said ... what if at that time when one applies for benefits the age of eligibility and work credits needed keeps increasing and/or there's nothing left?

You've paid into it SS all your life ... you need to be able to receive some of that money. It is NOT an entitlement IMHO, it is something that you have paid into. 
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: libertybele on March 15, 2019, 02:00:20 PM
I'm referring to the spousal benefit, not survivorship. Maybe you're not aware that a couple can receive a second benefit even if only 1 paid in?

And I didn't say that I thought it was unfair, I simply stated the well-known fact that many people DO think it's unfair...

What perhaps some don't realize is that survivors benefits depend on the age of the spouse at the time of death of the other spouse.  If the surviving spouse is not of full retirement age, the survivors benefits are reduced accordingly.  The only way to receive full benefits is to wait till one is of full retirement age, then apply for survivors benefits.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 15, 2019, 02:34:29 PM
I am collecting a spousal benefit.  I paid into social security and am collecting my social security along with a spousal benefit.  The spousal benefit is very minimal.  I might be able to buy a tank of gas with it and we might be able to go for an ice cream cone somewhere once a month.  That's about it folks.

But your benefit is in addition to your regular SS. People who don't have their own benefit can get up to half their spouse's full benefit, close to $1400/mo. or more - I haven't looked at the figures recently.

It's worth noting that the spouse also gets Medicare without ever paying in a dime.

These provisions were implemented when families were primarily one-earner, there were many workers per beneficiary, and joint life expectancy wasn't very high (once the first spouse dies the extra benefits go away). The situation is much different today, which is why many feel it's an area that should be on the table as part of any effort to "save" SS...
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: libertybele on March 15, 2019, 03:38:15 PM
But your benefit is in addition to your regular SS. People who don't have their own benefit can get up to half their spouse's full benefit, close to $1400/mo. or more - I haven't looked at the figures recently.

It's worth noting that the spouse also gets Medicare without ever paying in a dime.

These provisions were implemented when families were primarily one-earner, there were many workers per beneficiary, and joint life expectancy wasn't very high (once the first spouse dies the extra benefits go away). The situation is much different today, which is why many feel it's an area that should be on the table as part of any effort to "save" SS...


Medicare is mandated at 65, regardless whether or not you have private insurance. Medicare is NOT free.  You still have to pay medicare premiums, and you need to have some sort of supplemental insurance. Your private insurance becomes secondary and that scenario is the doing of the feds.

There were some changes made for the beginning of this year. Full retirement age for those born in 1960 and after is 67 ... anyone born after 1970 will more than likely have a full retirement age of 69 or maybe even 70. Work credits have increased for that group as well in order to qualify. Early retirement age is still 62, but with the extension now of full retirement age, early retirement benefits have further been reduced and work credits have been increased in order to qualify. 

They in essence have already made some cuts to social security, people just don't realize what has been done.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 15, 2019, 04:34:43 PM

Medicare is mandated at 65, regardless whether or not you have private insurance. Medicare is NOT free.  You still have to pay medicare premiums, and you need to have some sort of supplemental insurance. Your private insurance becomes secondary and that scenario is the doing of the feds.

There were some changes made for the beginning of this year. Full retirement age for those born in 1960 and after is 67 ... anyone born after 1970 will more than likely have a full retirement age of 69 or maybe even 70. Work credits have increased for that group as well in order to qualify. Early retirement age is still 62, but with the extension now of full retirement age, early retirement benefits have further been reduced and work credits have been increased in order to qualify. 

They in essence have already made some cuts to social security, people just don't realize what has been done.

OK, to be more precise, the spouse gets premium-free part A. Anyone can get part A, but it's only premium-free if you or your spouse paid in for 10 years. Part B (and D) are optional, though there are penalties if you decline it but later change your mind. There's no penalty for skipping supplemental insurance, it just means you have to pay the 20% co-pays. People in good health can skip it until their co-pays rise enough to make it a cost-effective investment.

So I should have said "It's worth noting that the spouse also gets Medicare Part A premium-free without ever paying in a dime."

The retirement age bumps are not new, they were part of the Reagan "fix" that raised taxes and gave Congress an extra $3T to spend on pet projects in the guise of a "SS Trust Fund".

I wasn't aware that work credits have been increased beyond 40, but that's actually a pretty good idea, and it wouldn't in any way reduce the benefits for those who qualify. Edit> In fact the low requirement of 40 encourages abuse by foreign workers. They can pay in the max for 10 years then go back to India and eventually collect a very generous benefit thanks to SS's front-loaded benefit formula. There are offsets if they work under another retirement system, but you have to wonder how thoroughly those claims get vetted...
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on March 15, 2019, 05:51:16 PM
I don't need your "education".  That's because you're being deliberately dishonest.   

Again - illegals (and their employers) pay into the system but are ineligible to collect.  To the tune of $13 billion per year, it appears,  illegals help pay for your benefits.

 That's a completely different situation than your ignorant comparison to a widow's benefit (which is, of course, derivative of the benefit the worker earned by paying into the system, just as it with a private pension.)
He reads but cannot see.

One does not have to be a widow to collect SS benefits like you say.  One does not have to a pay a dime into the system to collect.

And as far as your far-fetched attempt to shame all of us for an illegal paying into the system on our behalf, that is a ridiculous stretch.

Not only should they not even be here anyway, but that wage they are making is being stolen from a real American who does not have that job.

So please spare us the deliberate distortion of what is going on.

And please read up on how Social Security works as apparently its grasp is still lost on you.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 15, 2019, 09:04:45 PM
He reads but cannot see.

One does not have to be a widow to collect SS benefits like you say.  One does not have to a pay a dime into the system to collect.

And as far as your far-fetched attempt to shame all of us for an illegal paying into the system on our behalf, that is a ridiculous stretch.

Not only should they not even be here anyway, but that wage they are making is being stolen from a real American who does not have that job.

So please spare us the deliberate distortion of what is going on.

And please read up on how Social Security works as apparently its grasp is still lost on you.

It's surprising how many people aren't aware of the spousal benefit. Last month I was talking to a guy who recently retired. He was saying that his wife, a few years younger, hated her crap job but needed 4 more years to qualify for SS. I knew with his job his benefit had to be near the max, so I asked why she didn't just take the higher spousal benefit. He had no idea what I was talking about, and I'm pretty sure he didn't believe me when I explained it. How can any halfway-intelligent worker plan for retirement without learning the basics of SS?
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on March 16, 2019, 08:48:07 AM
It's surprising how many people aren't aware of the spousal benefit. Last month I was talking to a guy who recently retired. He was saying that his wife, a few years younger, hated her crap job but needed 4 more years to qualify for SS. I knew with his job his benefit had to be near the max, so I asked why she didn't just take the higher spousal benefit. He had no idea what I was talking about, and I'm pretty sure he didn't believe me when I explained it. How can any halfway-intelligent worker plan for retirement without learning the basics of SS?
I really don't know why people don't learn about it. One guy here believes my wife is getting SS because I am dead.

My wife makes half as much as I do, so that is a 50% increase in financial planning.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: jafo2010 on March 19, 2019, 01:14:17 AM
Fact is, there are people collecting Social Security in the states that never paid a single dime into it, and I am not speaking of spouses, etc.  I know folks that came to America who were age 65 or higher and started collecting Social Security from the get go.

For USA citizens, you would normally be expected to work 40 quarters to collect your own Social Security benefit. 

And then there are the variations that have been mentioned in this thread.  And why would we expect anyone in America to know what they are talking about?  We are a nation of people that are largely clueless.  Recently, I heard it mentioned that 80% of Americans would not be able to point to a map and show where our national capitol is located.  Why would they know Social Security policies?  They don't.

I turn 66 this year, and will be eligible for the full benefit, but I also know I can collect an additional $1,000 per month by waiting four more years and collect at age 70.  Collect at 66 or 70...I have no idea what is better.  When the time comes, I will run the numbers and make a business decision for me.  Off the top of my head, I am guessing I would have to live and collect until I am about 84 to properly break even, so I am leaning to collecting at 66.  Of course, if I have a lucrative income come age 66, I think it might be beneficial for me to wait, for one ends up giving up the Social Security benefit dramatically if you earn above a certain level, something like one dollar for every two earned above a certain level....roughly.

I fully support clamping down on abuse in all federal programs.  Trump has committed to not change the basic Social Security, and I trust he will stick to that mindset.

I also believe we need to transition to individual accounts, and if it means introducing it by adding X percent to the Social Security Tax, I would support that, i.e. the following:

Year 1-3    1%
       4-6     2%
       7-9     3%
    10-12    4%
    13-15    5%
    16-18    6%

Note:  these monies would go ONLY into an account in your name, with the ability to chose what accounts it would go into, along the lines of a 401k, but not be limited to just those funds offered by an employer, but open to all funds, stock that are registered with the exchanges, etc.

For those worried about excess risk, set limits on risk, i.e. limiting the portfolio risk level based on age, etc.

To continue with ONLY a program as currently designed is beyond stupid.  So, let's get creative and design a system that ends the theft by Congress to spend the funds on whatever they want.  We can still offer the conventional program for those fearful to manage their own monies.



Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 19, 2019, 08:17:13 AM


...Of course, if I have a lucrative income come age 66, I think it might be beneficial for me to wait, for one ends up giving up the Social Security benefit dramatically if you earn above a certain level, something like one dollar for every two earned above a certain level....roughly....


The earnings-based reduction only applies if you take SS early. Once you reach FRA there's no earnings limit. I believe you also receive some form of credit for the reductions that increase future benefits, so you're not getting penalized as much as it might seem.

Delaying past FRA is attractive for some. Basically each month of delay buys an additional COLAed $15-20/mo for life, significantly more than you can get from any annuity provider. Plus, using the years between ending work and starting benefits to do large Roth conversions can save a bundle in taxes when you have to start IRA/401k withdrawals.

Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: edpc on March 19, 2019, 08:41:11 AM
Ten year projected cuts are a joke. In most cases, the changes are back loaded. The plans rarely make it that far, before they are changed or canceled, entirely.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 19, 2019, 09:54:50 AM
I really don't know why people don't learn about it. One guy here believes my wife is getting SS because I am dead.

My wife makes half as much as I do, so that is a 50% increase in financial planning.

Stop being coy.  Why is your wife collecting SS while not having paid into the system?   
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Jazzhead on March 19, 2019, 10:00:03 AM
I'll be turning 62 this year,  and I'm trying to decide whether to start collecting SS early.   I'll take a significant haircut to do so, but I'll still come out ahead at least until I'm in about my mid-seventies.    So it's a question of whether I'm likely to live that long or, more to the point, be physically able to enjoy life.   Every year that I deal with the stress of full time work is one less year to enjoy my dwindling years of physical ability.   So for me, it's not so much a matter of maximizing my financial situation (that's easy - keep working!),  but rather maximizing my ability to enjoy life after decades of denial.   It's that trade-off between money and time that makes the retirement decision so difficult.     
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: catfish1957 on March 19, 2019, 10:05:55 AM
With the next leftist socialist POTUS/congress, I expect seveal  pushes in this area.  These are listed from lowest to highest probability of happening

Scenario 1- which will have maximum backlash will be a government attempt of consfication of IRA's / 401 k's into a government run 1 system combined with social security.

Scenario 2 - SS benefits will be indexed out based on other household income. (i.e <$100K, recieve 100%, $100-200K- 80%, $200K-$400K , 50% >$400K none.

Scenario 3- Indexing of SS payroll withholding as income goes up.  Percentages will be based on annual income.

Scenario 4-  Increase age of eligibiity

Scenario 5-  And very very likely-   Cap removed on SS tax withholdings which is now anything over $132.9K annually.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: catfish1957 on March 19, 2019, 10:10:56 AM
I'll be turning 62 this year,  and I'm trying to decide whether to start collecting SS early.   I'll take a significant haircut to do so, but I'll still come out ahead at least until I'm in about my mid-seventies.    So it's a question of whether I'm likely to live that long or, more to the point, be physically able to enjoy life.   Every year that I deal with the stress of full time work is one less year to enjoy my dwindling years of physical ability.   So for me, it's not so much a matter of maximizing my financial situation (that's easy - keep working!),  but rather maximizing my ability to enjoy life after decades of denial.   It's that trade-off between money and time that makes the retirement decision so difficult.     

Advise I give everyone is look at it from a probabiity standpoint.  You've done the work and determined your break even point is in your mid '70's.  Based on family health history , and expected longevity.....  try to beat the house one way or the other.  In that decision don't forget average COLA expectations, and inflation.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Chosen Daughter on March 19, 2019, 10:28:46 AM
Big damned deal.   They're getting off light, tax-wise, by only paying SSN taxes.  And... they are committing FRAUD.  Cry me a river.

Only in America could someone argue that breaking Immigration law.  Stealing someone's identity and SS, committing fraud is a good thing.
Title: Re: Trump outlines a significant Social Security cut in his 2020 budget
Post by: Snarknado on March 19, 2019, 07:58:47 PM
Stop being coy.  Why is your wife collecting SS while not having paid into the system?

Is it too much trouble to google SS spousal benefit? It's the first hit https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/applying6.html (https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/applying6.html)