The Briefing Room

General Category => Economy/Business => Topic started by: catfish1957 on July 24, 2020, 05:49:01 PM

Title: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 24, 2020, 05:49:01 PM
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/portalcontent/production/v1010/Content/images/products/Gold-Bars-100-oz-large.jpg)


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-rides-to-a-record-with-prospects-for-2000-an-ounce-stronger-than-ever-2020-07-24?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-rides-to-a-record-with-prospects-for-2000-an-ounce-stronger-than-ever-2020-07-24?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo)

<snipit>

Gold futures posted a record settlement on Friday, along with their strongest weekly performance since early April, with calls for the never-before-seen level of $2,000 an ounce for the precious metal coming in louder than ever.

“Gold and silver bulls will face a real challenge over the next two weeks,” said Chintan Karnani, chief market analyst at Insignia Consultants, in a Friday note. But if tensions between China and the U.S. escalate, and the U.S. sees a sharp daily increases in COVID-19 cases, “then gold and silver will only rise.”........
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Gold closed above $1,900 / oz. for the first time in history.  Also not being included in the article in crust, is the fact that massive deficit spending world wide is creating a currency bubble, and people are flying out in droves toward safety.  And I agree that $2,000/oz. is likely, and sadly even spriralling up higher than that as the world's fiat currencies lose value against tangilble things of real value like precious metals and real estate.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: libertybele on July 24, 2020, 10:42:58 PM
‘I would be buying now and continue to buy’ gold, says Mark Mobius investing pioneer

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-would-be-buying-now-and-continue-to-buy-gold-says-mark-mobius-investing-pioneer-11595608688?mod=home-page (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-would-be-buying-now-and-continue-to-buy-gold-says-mark-mobius-investing-pioneer-11595608688?mod=home-page)
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: DB on July 24, 2020, 11:25:13 PM
This is what happens when you print $4 trillion in a few months... It wasn't borrowed, it was created out of thin air...
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 25, 2020, 12:22:39 AM
The problem with metals is how do you get rid of them?  If you sell them to a broker, then they have to report it and you get stuck paying 28% capital gains tax.   

My accumulation is based on the fact there might not be a captial gains tax, or an IRS for that matter.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: libertybele on July 25, 2020, 01:21:12 PM
My accumulation is based on the fact there might not be a captial gains tax, or an IRS for that matter.

Same here.  We've never purchased gold with the intent of making a profit.  It is an asset to have when and if the bottom on everything falls.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: libertybele on July 25, 2020, 01:32:44 PM
The problem with metals is how do you get rid of them?  If you sell them to a broker, then they have to report it and you get stuck paying 28% capital gains tax.   

This is my understanding and please correct me if I am wrong, but IF you are in a federal tax bracket lower than 28%, your net long-term gains from sales of collectibles are taxed at your regular rate.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: Bigun on July 25, 2020, 01:50:42 PM
True....  But the last silver spiked up to $40 or more it was mighty tempting to lighten my load.

For many reasons, your silver is a much better investment than gold right now IMHO.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: DB on July 25, 2020, 02:15:14 PM
The problem with metals is how do you get rid of them?  If you sell them to a broker, then they have to report it and you get stuck paying 28% capital gains tax.   

As the dollar depreciates everyone moves up in the tax brackets... And the official "inflation" numbers don't reflect reality and therefore don't compensate for the change. We just all get poorer.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 25, 2020, 03:26:45 PM
This is my understanding and please correct me if I am wrong, but IF you are in a federal tax bracket lower than 28%, your net long-term gains from sales of collectibles are taxed at your regular rate.

I had a pretty lengthy discussion with some friends around cap gains with gold.  It is interesting to point out that there is / was much gold out there that was purchased for less than the $10000 reporting tracking threshold that the IRS has invoked.  In fact I have some that I have forgotten what I bought at spot value.  As I mentioned earlier, I'll never sell any as it is a disater hedge, but if I were to, it would be shot in the dark to figure out  what the cost basis is. 

BTW, you are right.  The 28% applies to any collectable, precious metal, art, antiques, etc. regardless of income.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 25, 2020, 03:29:28 PM
For many reasons, your silver is a much better investment than gold right now IMHO.

I kind of like equal weighting, In a SHTF scenario they  wil kind of function analagously  to $100's and $10's.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: libertybele on July 25, 2020, 03:51:36 PM
I had a pretty lengthy discussion with some friends around cap gains with gold.  It is interesting to point out that there is / was much gold out there that was purchased for less than the $1000 reporting tracking threshold that the IRS has invoked.  In fact I have some that I have forgotten what I bought at spot value.  As I mentioned earlier, I'll never sell any as it is a disater hedge, but if I were to, it would be shot in the dark to figure out  what the cost basis is. 

BTW, you are right.  The 28% applies to any collectable, precious metal, art, antiques, etc. regardless of income.

Exactly.  How am I supposed to remember the dates of what I purchased over the past 15 years or so??
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 25, 2020, 04:05:44 PM
Exactly.  How am I supposed to remember the dates of what I purchased over the past 15 years or so??

It has been my experience that the IRS has been pretty reasonable with cost basis, as long it passes what I call the "Red Faced Test".

What I would do for my documentation, is say guess the year you bought it, and then take a monthly average of prices, so you can at least show the agent that there is some science behind your guess.  Not 100% sure, but I'd guess he'll take it as acceptable.  OTOH, telling an agent you bought the bars when you were 7?   :thud:  Inheirited?  Using death date, or probate death as point..... 
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: libertybele on July 25, 2020, 04:32:21 PM
It has been my experience that the IRS has been pretty reasonable with cost basis, as long it passes what I call the "Red Faced Test".

What I would do for my documentation, is say guess the year you bought it, and then take a monthly average of prices, so you can at least show the agent that there is some science behind your guess.  Not 100% sure, but I'd guess he'll take it as acceptable.  OTOH, telling an agent you bought the bars when you were 7?   :thud:  Inheirited?  Using death date, or probate death as point.....

Then there's  the Trump dollars which probably won't go over very well when you go to sell....
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 25, 2020, 04:38:08 PM
Then there's  the Trump dollars which probably won't go over very well when you go to sell....

Noticing the past few days that gold in auctions is typically going for $100-200 / oz. over COMEX spot.

Dips are getting harder and harder to find.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: Fishrrman on July 25, 2020, 05:58:42 PM
OK, another Fishrrman off-the-wall prediction:
Everyone in this thread is missing an important reality (from the future that I see coming).

Once the communists gain full control here -- after they have moved beyond the "democrat-communist" transitional period -- they're going to declare private ownership of gold AND silver illegal.

Citizens will be required to turn it in voluntarily or be subject to having their homes raided. Compensation, at best, will be the new "blue bucks" that are introduced to replace the current green dollars -- at a rate of 100 or maybe 200 green for one blue in return.

At worst, there will be no compensation at all.

I predict the silver black market may survive, with "low denomination" old "junk silver" coins being a medium of exchange.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 25, 2020, 07:26:25 PM
OK, another Fishrrman off-the-wall prediction:
Everyone in this thread is missing an important reality (from the future that I see coming).

Once the communists gain full control here -- after they have moved beyond the "democrat-communist" transitional period -- they're going to declare private ownership of gold AND silver illegal.

Citizens will be required to turn it in voluntarily or be subject to having their homes raided. Compensation, at best, will be the new "blue bucks" that are introduced to replace the current green dollars -- at a rate of 100 or maybe 200 green for one blue in return.

At worst, there will be no compensation at all.

I predict the silver black market may survive, with "low denomination" old "junk silver" coins being a medium of exchange.

Forgetting the fact there are2 billion acres of land in this country to bury it.

(1)  They'd better bring an million man army and shovels and metal detectors.
(2)  And half that many with guns  and battle armor with their little confiscation army. 

Yeah, you can go full blown dystopia on us, but whoever would try those tactics would have to do a serious cost benefit analysis, because in those 2 billion acres, you can lose a lot of bodies too.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on July 28, 2020, 10:10:02 PM
Gold up to $1953/oz. today.  Another all time high.

GS just raised their forcast to $2300/oz. within a year.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/goldman-sachs-now-expects-gold-to-reach-2300-an-ounce-2020-07-28 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/goldman-sachs-now-expects-gold-to-reach-2300-an-ounce-2020-07-28)
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: libertybele on July 28, 2020, 10:16:32 PM
OK, another Fishrrman off-the-wall prediction:
Everyone in this thread is missing an important reality (from the future that I see coming).

Once the communists gain full control here -- after they have moved beyond the "democrat-communist" transitional period -- they're going to declare private ownership of gold AND silver illegal.

Citizens will be required to turn it in voluntarily or be subject to having their homes raided. Compensation, at best, will be the new "blue bucks" that are introduced to replace the current green dollars -- at a rate of 100 or maybe 200 green for one blue in return.

At worst, there will be no compensation at all.

I predict the silver black market may survive, with "low denomination" old "junk silver" coins being a medium of exchange.

Keep in mind that if you make a purchase of less than $10,000.00 when purchasing gold the dealer is not required to report that sale.  So .... how are they going to know who has gold?  If I had gold, I certainly wouldn't voluntarily turn it over.  Perhaps they could hire the gestapo to go door to door to every house in the U.S. ... nothing is out of the realm of possibility .... searching and seizing guns and gold, but I have a feeling that they just might be met with some resistance.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on August 01, 2020, 12:08:40 PM
Just a heads up....   Though the spot COMEX gold price at this exact moment is $1973/oz, I am seeing common Double Eagles (with minimal addtional numismatic value) yielding $2600-$2700 a piece at auctions.  Something's up. 
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: Hoodat on August 01, 2020, 12:15:04 PM
The real story here is

Dollar Falls To A Record - It Now takes $2,000 To Buy An Ounce Of Gold
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: catfish1957 on August 01, 2020, 12:22:03 PM
The real story here is

Dollar Falls To A Record - It Now takes $2,000 To Buy An Ounce Of Gold

True, but this speculative $2600-2700 panic buying, either infers either no one is letting loose of their stock, or some insiders are privy  to info not widely known yet.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: Fishrrman on August 01, 2020, 03:09:39 PM
APMEX is selling 2020 gold eagles via ebay for 2,200.
Other sellers down around 2,133.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: Hoodat on August 01, 2020, 05:20:01 PM
APMEX is selling 2020 gold eagles via ebay for 2,200.
Other sellers down around 2,133.

Those who are buying high now will end up selling low later.
Title: Re: Gold rides to a record, with prospects for $2,000 an ounce stronger than ever
Post by: Free Vulcan on August 01, 2020, 10:03:13 PM
I kind of like equal weighting, In a SHTF scenario they  wil kind of function analagously  to $100's and $10's.

If you have excess FRN's that you don't want to be worthless, I think that's a good strategy.

If you do have a local economy after SHTF and those that will take precious metals as currency, you will be well positioned.

Even if not, they should hold their value until there is one again.