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General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 09:19:28 AM

Title: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 09:19:28 AM
Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
U.S.-backed militia says American forces failed to meet their commitments, as Washington informs Kurds it wouldn't protect them against imminent Turkish incursion into northeastern Syria to 'clear terrorist elements'
Reuters, The Associated Press and Haaretz Oct 07, 2019 2:37 PM

American troops began withdrawing Monday from their positions along Turkey's border in northeastern Syria, in a major shift in U.S. policy harshly criticized by its Kurdish allies, which came despite Pentagon officials' support for maintaining American presence in the region.

The partial pullout comes ahead of an anticipated Turkish invasion, which U.S. President Donald Trump endorsed in a Sunday phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and that U.S.-backed Kurdish-led forces say will overturn five years of achievements in the battle against the Islamic State group.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/defying-pentagon-trump-turkey-erdogan-syria-u-s-backed-kurds-1.7950055 (https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/defying-pentagon-trump-turkey-erdogan-syria-u-s-backed-kurds-1.7950055)

Its crystal clear to me now why Bolton was let go.  In September Bolton issued a warning about Iranian Oil Tanker off Port of Syria

https://news.yahoo.com/bolton-says-iranian-tanker-syrian-port-085809246.html (https://news.yahoo.com/bolton-says-iranian-tanker-syrian-port-085809246.html)

Makes sense now why Trump called Erdogan a friend at the U.N.  We are now abandoning our Allies that have helped rid Syria of ISIS.  Erdogan views the Kurds as terrorists.  He also is a persecutor of Christians.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 07, 2019, 09:32:46 AM
I do not like this at all, very very bad move Mr President.

@Right_in_Virginia is this true?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 07, 2019, 09:43:39 AM
BKMK
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: OfTheCross on October 07, 2019, 09:45:50 AM
I hate our troops being overseas, but I like that we've got ISIS rangled up in a camp there.

I'm going to bookmark this topic to read more about the situation later.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 09:50:46 AM
Lindsey Graham lets loose on Trump's decision to pull out of northern Syria and says the White House is lying about ISIS
Eliza Relman 10 minutes ago

https://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-lets-loose-trump-over-his-withdrawal-from-syria-2019-10 (https://www.businessinsider.com/lindsey-graham-lets-loose-trump-over-his-withdrawal-from-syria-2019-10)

US Troops Start Pullout from Along Turkey's Border in Syria

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/07/us-troops-start-pullout-along-turkeys-border-syria.html (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/10/07/us-troops-start-pullout-along-turkeys-border-syria.html)

This is a bizarre change in U.S policy that will allow ISIS to grow in the region.   Unhinged.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 09:51:36 AM
I do not like this at all, very very bad move Mr President.

@Right_in_Virginia is this true? 

@jpsb

Quote
Donald J. Trump
Verified account   @realDonaldTrump

The United States was supposed to be in Syria for 30 days, that was many years ago. We stayed and got deeper and deeper into battle with no aim in sight. When I arrived in Washington, ISIS was running rampant in the area. We quickly defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate,.....

...including capturing thousands of ISIS fighters, mostly from Europe. But Europe did not want them back, they said you keep them USA! I said “NO, we did you a great favor and now you want us to hold them in U.S. prisons at tremendous cost. They are yours for trials.” They.....

.....again said “NO,” thinking, as usual, that the U.S. is always the “sucker,” on NATO, on Trade, on everything. The Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so. They have been fighting Turkey for decades. I held off this fight for....

...almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home. WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to.....

...figure the situation out, and what they want to do with the captured ISIS fighters in their “neighborhood.” They all hate ISIS, have been enemies for years. We are 7000 miles away and will crush ISIS again if they come anywhere near us!

4:40 AM - 7 Oct 2019

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181172467676565505
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 07, 2019, 09:55:26 AM
@jpsb

OK, thanks, I hate these endless wars too but I also hate abandoning the Kurds.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 09:56:04 AM
@jpsb

The 'fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here' line has always had a kind of a smell to it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 09:56:57 AM
I think this comes down to one question @jpsb .... Is it our responsibility, often solely, to police the Middle East?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 09:59:26 AM
@jpsb

Thankfully 7 thousand miles away.  Being that far away did not stop 9/11.  His plan is to stop housing ISIS at Guantanamo also.  He is handing this all over to extremist Turkey.  Say goodbye to Christianity in the Middle East also.

We have ceased to be anything good in the world.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:01:07 AM
The 'fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here' line has always had a kind of a smell to it.

Oh really?  So lets just let Iran and Turkey take over the entire region right?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:04:08 AM
I think this comes down to one question @jpsb .... Is it our responsibility, often solely, to police the Middle East?

Well that's real diplomacy right.  Correct response would be diplomacy with Europe to stop ISIS.  Not give up.  Do you know how many people will be killed and suffer from this decision?  This will change the face of the Middle East.  And I don't care if I get in trouble.  Get ready because we surely are in the End Times and this is Bible Prophesy for Syria to be destroyed.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 10:04:34 AM
Oh really?  So lets just let Iran and Turkey take over the entire region right?

How many US lives and how much treasure is it worth to you, Chosen? What are you willing to sacrifice?

And when we're done there, BTW, there are several dozen other examples of persecution and aggression left to address in the rest of the world. We've certainly got our work cut out for us. Maybe we should tackle Kashmir next.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 10:09:28 AM
OK, thanks, I hate these endless wars too but I also hate abandoning the Kurds.

But the Kurds are not a monolithic group @jpsb  And not all are our friends.  But we still supply them with weapons and money to carry on their never-ending fight against the Turks, et.al. 

I suppose another way of asking the central question is:  With the Kurds we are generous with our treasure, must we also be generous with our blood?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 10:17:19 AM


Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever.  The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.

I was wondering if any of the Orange Brigade at TBR would defend  his actions.   You answered that question nicely, and predictably.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:17:45 AM
How many US lives and how much treasure is it worth to you, Chosen? What are you willing to sacrifice?

And when we're done there, BTW, there are several dozen other examples of persecution and aggression left to address in the rest of the world. We've certainly got our work cut out for us. Maybe we should tackle Kashmir next.

You don't know me and I wouldn't dignify your post by answering anything personal.  But I am sure there are many military families that may.

Trump is a huge failure.  He is unhinged and he can't even tackle the job of foreign affairs.  Instead of Diplomacy he engages in name calling and childish texts.  Texts that insult instead of encourage diplomatic ties.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:18:51 AM
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever.  The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.

I was wondering if any of the Orange Brigade at TBR would defend  his actions.   You answered that question nicely, and predictably.

Crazy, the indefensible.  But they defend.

And I might add that closing Guantanamo was Obama's goal.  Handing these terrorists over to terrorist will only allow them to end up back in the fight.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 10:20:04 AM


Trump is a huge failure.  He is unhinged and he can't even tackle the job of foreign affairs. 

He's worse than a failure.  He's turned his back on the Kurds who have gave countless lives to help us fight Islamic extremist. 
No one is going to trust us in the world now.

Wonder what Trump will Tweet, when the Turks massacre these Kurds.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 07, 2019, 10:20:51 AM
I do not like this at all, very very bad move Mr President.

@Right_in_Virginia is this true?

If true, I agree!  A TRULY bad move!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 10:21:20 AM
You don't know me and I wouldn't dignify your post by answering anything personal.  But I am sure there are many military families that may.

Trump is a huge failure.  He is unhinged and he can't even tackle the job of foreign affairs.  Instead of Diplomacy he engages in name calling and childish texts.  Texts that insult instead of encourage diplomatic ties.

You don't like him - I got it. I was just wondering if you had any other reason for disagreeing with his Syria policy.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 10:23:16 AM
You don't like him - I got it. I was just wondering if you had any other reason for disagreeing with his Syria policy.

Allowing the Turks to massacre the Kurds, who have been our most loyal allies through the War on Terror?  Yeah, that't the ticket.

Donald Trump, please step down and allow Pence to govern.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 10:27:28 AM
Allowing the Turks to massacre the Kurds, who have been our most loyal allies through the War on Terror?  Yeah, that't the ticket.

Donald Trump, please step down and allow Pence to govern.

You'd think we'd be smarter than to get in the middle of a foreign feud by now, thinking we can 'solve' the centuries old problem from thousands of miles away

I guess not.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 10:31:07 AM
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever.  The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years. 

I neither defended nor attacked the President.  I simply asked a question.

All I ever hear is the drumbeat "we cannot abandon the Kurds".  So, I asked a question, the central question that few are willing to answer:  With the Kurds we have always been and continue to be generous with our treasure, must we also be generous with our blood?

Yes or no? @catfish1957

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 07, 2019, 10:31:16 AM
I think this comes down to one question @jpsb .... Is it our responsibility, often solely, to police the Middle East?

Well this old Marine does not like the idea of abandoning a faithful ally to the likes of Turkey. Trump is going to lose a lot of support over
this. Turkey is an Islamic state and becoming more and more radical. No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave
the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS. Bad move Mr President, bad bad bad move. Read a little history
on Turkey and genocide.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:31:42 AM
You don't like him - I got it. I was just wondering if you had any other reason for disagreeing with his Syria policy.

If I told you what I thought of this I would be in trouble.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 10:32:34 AM
The 'fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here' line has always had a kind of a smell to it.

Until you remember what happened on 9/11.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 10:33:48 AM
How many US lives and how much treasure is it worth to you, Chosen? What are you willing to sacrifice?

And when we're done there, BTW, there are several dozen other examples of persecution and aggression left to address in the rest of the world. We've certainly got our work cut out for us. Maybe we should tackle Kashmir next.

How much are you willing to scarifice on our home soil when the attacks start over here?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 10:36:59 AM
I neither defended nor attacked the President.  I simply asked a question.

All I ever hear is the drumbeat "we cannot abandon the Kurds".  So, I asked a question, the central question that few are willing to answer:  With the Kurds we have always been and continue to be generous with our treasure, must we also be generous with our blood?

Yes or no? @catfish1957

No...   But at least put a plan in place to get them out of harms way.   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 10:37:40 AM
Well this old Marine does not like the idea of abandoning a faithful ally to the likes of Turkey. Trump is going to lose a lot of support over
this. Turkey is an Islamic state and becoming more and more radical. No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave
the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS. Bad move Mr President, bad bad bad move. Read a little history
on Turkey and genocide.

Reagan supported the Afghans & Iraqis with weapons and other materials during their respective wars with Russia and Iran. He wisely did not send Americans over to die for them.

I see nothing immoral about doing the same with the Kurds.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: OfTheCross on October 07, 2019, 10:38:13 AM
But the Kurds are not a monolithic group @jpsb  And not all are our friends.  But we still supply them with weapons and money to carry on their never-ending fight against the Turks, et.al. 

I suppose another way of asking the central question is:  With the Kurds we are generous with our treasure, must we also be generous with our blood?

How much blood have we shed with the Kurds? The article says that they've lost over 11,000 fighters, but I didn't see ours.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 10:40:38 AM
How much blood have we shed with the Kurds? The article says that they've lost over 11,000 fighters, but I didn't see ours.

Begs the question how badly they need American bodies over there, doesn't it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 10:41:13 AM
Well this old Marine does not like the idea of abandoning a faithful ally to the likes of Turkey. Trump is going to lose a lot of support over
this. Turkey is an Islamic state and becoming more and more radical. No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave
the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS. Bad move Mr President, bad bad bad move. Read a little history
on Turkey and genocide.

The Turks along wth Scots, and Vikings as infamous as the fiercist warriors in earth's history the past 1000 years.
Unless some contingencies are prepared quickly, the Turks will make quick work of the Kurds. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 10:43:31 AM
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.

The border is still being invaded. He signed laws that further entrenched that situation.

Obamacare is still the law of the land.

Extreme deficit spending is as bad as it has ever been.

1st and 2nd (and other) amendment freedoms are slipping away.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 10:44:06 AM
I think this comes down to one question @jpsb .... Is it our responsibility, often solely, to police the Middle East?

Sooo.... I guess this means we'll also be (finally) pulling completely out of Afghanistan, as well.   Right?

Quote
but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home. WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to.....

...figure the situation out
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: OfTheCross on October 07, 2019, 10:44:44 AM
Begs the question how badly they need American bodies over there, doesn't it.


I tried to search for the answer and got that we've lost 3 soldiers in Syria.

But I don't know that I was looking at the correct conflict.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 10:51:51 AM
Begs the question how badly they need American bodies over there, doesn't it.

So we're going for version 2 of Bush #1 abandoning the Kurds to Saddam after we asked them to rise up and "help" us...

It is a bloody stain on our country and will cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives all over again.

It is of low character to start something and not keep your word if at all possible. Why would anyone take our word for life and death issues in the future. Honor comes with a cost.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 10:52:46 AM
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.

The border is still being invaded. He signed laws that further entrenched that situation.

Obamacare is still the law of the land.

Extreme deficit spending is as bad as it has ever been.

1st and 2nd (and other) amendment freedoms are slipping away.

Considering Trump needs conservative support to fight off his impeachment/conviction problems, very strange he would be making his worst (by far) decision at this juncture.  For a man who screams the importance of loyality, it sure is a one way street.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 10:53:20 AM
Well this old Marine does not like the idea of abandoning a faithful ally to the likes of Turkey. Trump is going to lose a lot of support over this. Turkey is an Islamic state and becoming more and more radical. No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS. Bad move Mr President, bad bad bad move. Read a little history on Turkey and genocide. 

They fought with us against ISIS because they hate ISIS.  Our interests dovetailed ... this move cost the Kurds nothing; it was no grand gesture of support for the Americans --- and it gained them money, equipment and training.

The Kurds have yet to consolidate their own internal fractions and continue to operate under fragmented and weak leadership.  If the Kurds are serious about carving out a state of their own, they need to hold an internal Council of Trent to figure out how to stop fighting each other and unify.  Until and unless they do this, the Kurds are blowing smoke up the world's skirt ... trying to use us to fight not only ISIS but their own internal skirmishes.

The Middle East is nothing more than a massive spider web of tribe within tribe within tribe .... and they're all fighting each other.  They have been doing so for centuries and will continue to do so until time itself ends.

You think this is a bad move.  I could respect this @jpsb  if you tell me why this is worth losing one man or one woman wearing the American military uniform.  What do we gain?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 10:56:03 AM
So we're going for version 2 of Bush #1 abandoning the Kurds to Saddam after we asked them to rise up and "help" us...

It is a bloody stain on our country and will cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives all over again.

It is of low character to start something and not keep your word if at all possible. Why would anyone take our word for life and death issues in the future. Honor comes with a cost.

And what is our 'word'? That we insert and keep ourselves in the middle of an ancient feud that will never end?

You're making a great argument for not involving ourselves in internecine conflicts in the first place.

I fully agree. After all they've cost us we should know better by now.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 10:56:11 AM
Allowing the Turks to massacre the Kurds, who have been our most loyal allies through the War on Terror?  Yeah, that't the ticket.

Donald Trump, please step down and allow Pence to govern.

@catfish1957 this is more of the Rand Paul radical Libertarian isolationist influence we're beginning to see take hold.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 10:58:02 AM
How much blood have we shed with the Kurds? The article says that they've lost over 11,000 fighters, but I didn't see ours.

They've been our fiercest allies on the war on terror and at the tail end of the Obama Administration straight through to now it appears...we're going to reward their loyalty as an ally and a fighting force by leaving them to be slaughtered by the Turks.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 10:59:53 AM
And what is our 'word'? That we insert and keep ourselves in the middle of an ancient feud that will never end?

You're making a great argument for not involving ourselves in internecine conflicts in the first place.

I fully agree. After all they've cost us we should know better by now.

There's plenty to debate whether we should have given our word in the first place - but we did. Either we honor it or we don't.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:00:22 AM
Turkey's Syria incursion may allow ISIS to attempt mass prison break amid US withdrawal, Kurdish fighters warn

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal (https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: OfTheCross on October 07, 2019, 11:01:10 AM
Sooo.... I guess this means we'll also be (finally) pulling completely out of Afghanistan, as well.   Right?

Wouldn't it be nice?

I would like a responsible draw-down, though.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 11:01:21 AM
@catfish1957 this is more of the Rand Paul radical Libertarian isolationist influence we're beginning to see take hold.

And speaking of radical isolationist influence.... 

Quote
"We would prefer to die of starvation than to live under the oppression and occupation of others. If this decision is made by referendum and the reaction is to isolate us, let our people die,” Kurdistan President Masoud Barzani told Foreign Policy magazine in June.

https://www.rudaw.net/english/opinion/03092017 (https://www.rudaw.net/english/opinion/03092017)

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:02:08 AM
Wouldn't it be nice?

I would like a responsible draw-down, though.

Ok General...with all your military expertise...tell us what that looks like.

Go ahead...I'll wait.  :2popcorn:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:03:48 AM
And speaking of radical isolationist influence....

They don't want to live under the yoke of oppression as they did with Saddam. It would be worse with the Turks.

How is that statement any different than someone saying "give me Liberty or give me death!"?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: OfTheCross on October 07, 2019, 11:06:49 AM
Ok General...with all your military expertise...tell us what that looks like.

Go ahead...I'll wait.  :2popcorn:

A smart man defers to a smarter man. How would you do it?

The Pentagon may have better answers than you or I, though.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 11:09:52 AM
They've been our fiercest alleis on the war on terror and at the tail end of the Obama Administration straight through to now it appears...we're going to reward their loyalty as an ally and a fighting force by leaving them to be slaughtered by the Turks.

I think it has been done before (HWBush).   They're probably getting used to it.

But logistically, how much good can a mere 1,000 soldiers do in an ongoing conflict like this?   And...if they're not doing that much good anyway, why are they even there?  It's an age-old can of worms that, if we really want to help, could be assisted the old fashioned way.  With US $$$ & arms. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 11:11:26 AM
They don't want to live under the yoke of oppression as they did with Saddam. It would be worse with the Turks.

How is that statement any different than someone saying "give me Liberty or give me death!"?

I'm not arguing.   Just saying.... they're tough SOBs that will fight to the death.  And.... they are quite accustomed to doing just that.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 11:14:40 AM
Turkey's Syria incursion may allow ISIS to attempt mass prison break amid US withdrawal, Kurdish fighters warn

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal (https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal)

So.... another one step forward, two steps back and ISIS wins?   Then where is the rest of the world, and Europe, re: stopping that from happening?  Surely they have concern.  [crickets]
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:15:32 AM
I think it has been done before (HWBush).   They're probably getting used to it.

No that was some anti Saddam folks in the southern part of the country that HW called upon to rise up agaisnt Saddam after we stopped 100 miles south of Baghdad.  The Kurds largely stayed out of the 1991 war.

We made the mistake of allowing Saddams military to fly helicopters after the cease fire and that's what stopped the uprising.  That southern tribe mainle lived in some swamp areas along the Euphrates river and Saddam punished them by draining the marshes and robbing them of their way of life...then we used the helicopeters to attack them.

Quote
But logistically, how much good can a mere 1,000 soldiers do in an ongoing conflict like this?   And...if they're not doing that much good anyway, why are they even there?  It's an age-old can of worms that, if we really want to help, could be assisted the old fashioned way.  With US $$$ & arms.

They are mainly Special Forces soldiers with some regular Army artillery and logistical support.  I'll take that force agaisnt any of the terrorist cells or state sponsored groups any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:18:39 AM
So.... another one step forward, two steps back and ISIS wins?

Yup. 

Quote
Then where is the rest of the world, and Europe, re: stopping that from happening?  Surely they have concern.  [crickets]

The rest of Europe...with a couple exceptions has its hands full with the flood of "refugees" from Syria and other terrorist spnsoring nations that has been inading the Euopean Continent since around 2015.

With the exception of a handful of EU nations that are former Russian satellite states...Europe had been de-nutted thanks to political correctness to the point they can't do anything except standby helplessly and watch what is happening.

They only do something if we're standing behidn them booting them in the ass to engage.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 07, 2019, 11:19:30 AM

You think this is a bad move.  I could respect this @jpsb  if you tell me why this is worth losing one man or one woman wearing the American military uniform.  What do we gain?

I don't think giving Turkey a green light to invade Syria so the Turks can wipe out our ally the Kurds is a good idea. In fact I think it is a
terrible idea. I want the troops home too, at the very least Trump should have told Turkey to stay out of Syria. The Turks are as bad
as the NAZIs were.

(http://evangelicalfocus.com/upload/imagenes/553a2d21e09e5_genocide630.jpg)

April 24th, 1915. This is the day in which the Armenian Genocide was started by the Ottoman Empire. 1.5 million people would lose their lives in the following years, intellectuals would be arrested, children given away to families they did not belong to, and many were deported, starved to death or sent to concentration camps.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 11:20:04 AM
Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.

Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.

I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:22:46 AM
A smart man defers to a smarter man. How would you do it?

Permanently base a division size force (15-20K) in the country.  Reactivate a division that was inactivated under Clinton and station it in Kandahar. Get the authorization for the new division and the subsequent increase in spending and troop strength numbers to fully man it so we're not rotating brigades from the states for 9 months at a time.

That gives us the flexibility to not only handle any issues in Afgnaistan...but the entire region as well...and acts as a blunting force to agression from Iran in the region as well as the passive support Pakistan gives to the Taliban.

Quote
The Pentagon may have better answers than you or I, though.

The Pentagon's answer is the one Trump just gave a middle finger to.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 11:24:56 AM
Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.

Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.

I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.

Says the guy who in 2016 who posted on this forum that people who don't support don't support Donald Trump are the same as ISIS and alQaeda?  That's pretty rich.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:25:16 AM
Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.

Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.

I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.

WTF are you talking about.  Obama abandoned the Kurds.  IF anything he was more friendly with Erdogan.

Hey guess what Tom...ISIS isn't "dethroned" now.  And if your hero gets his way...there's gonna be 10K pissed off ISIS fighters back on the battlefield ready to pick up where they left off with the whole Caliphate thing.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 07, 2019, 11:25:18 AM
Romney calls Trump's Syria decision a 'betrayal' of Kurds
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/464642-romney-calls-trumps-syria-decision-a-betrayal-of-kurds
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 11:26:58 AM
Romney calls Trump's Syria decision a 'betrayal' of Kurds
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/464642-romney-calls-trumps-syria-decision-a-betrayal-of-kurds

Don't you hate it when Romney's right?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:29:37 AM
Don't you hate it when Romney's right?

Broken clock...blind squirrel...Mitt Romney.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 11:29:55 AM
I don't think giving Turkey a green light to invade Syria so the Turks can wipe out our ally the Kurds is a good idea. In fact I think it is a
terrible idea. I want the troops home too, at the very least Trump should have told Turkey to stay out of Syria. The Turks are as bad
as the NAZIs were.

(http://evangelicalfocus.com/upload/imagenes/553a2d21e09e5_genocide630.jpg)

April 24th, 1915. This is the day in which the Armenian Genocide was started by the Ottoman Empire. 1.5 million people would lose their lives in the following years, intellectuals would be arrested, children given away to families they did not belong to, and many were deported, starved to death or sent to concentration camps.

But what you are not stating and this is old history now; but the Kurds helped the Turks in that genocide. The Kurds even back then, wanted their own homeland and so, helped out.

Don't ever forget that as well.

https://www.pri.org/stories/kurds-turkey-atone-their-role-armenian-genocide (https://www.pri.org/stories/kurds-turkey-atone-their-role-armenian-genocide)
Quote
Many Armenians were killed at the hands of Kurds, but unlike the rest of Turkey, the Kurds — who have since faced severe repression themselves — are beginning to atone.

Every source will tell one this, though, I think it was mainly one tribe or a small percent of them.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:32:55 AM
But what you are not stating and this is old history now; but the Kurds helped the Turks in that genocide. The Kurds even back then, wanted their own homeland and so, helped out.

Don't ever forget that as well.

https://www.pri.org/stories/kurds-turkey-atone-their-role-armenian-genocide (https://www.pri.org/stories/kurds-turkey-atone-their-role-armenian-genocide)
Every source will tell one this, though, I think it was mainly one tribe or a small percent of them.


Gotta love the constant whataboutism in defense of anything Trump does...even if it means screwing over an ally and allowing an brutal dictator who in addition to supporting ISIS/Taliban factions aims to commit genocide.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 11:34:28 AM
Don't you hate it when Romney's right?

It's a bit disconcerting.   Maybe the Kurds are the bait to draw them out in the open?

Maybe Rush can sort it out.   He's on in 30 min.   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 11:36:32 AM
Okay, if the USA had never gone over there in the first place, one can argue that ISIS never would have risen up, it's been a comedy of errors though, I think Obama deserves most of the blame.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 07, 2019, 11:36:35 AM
Rush will defend Trump no matter what he says or does...
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 07, 2019, 11:38:56 AM
Turkey's Syria incursion may allow ISIS to attempt mass prison break amid US withdrawal, Kurdish fighters warn
https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal (https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-isis-mass-prison-break-us-withdrawal)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 11:39:29 AM
Rush will defend Trump no matter what he says or does...

...and with 99.8% accuracy, too!      :pop41:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 11:41:45 AM
...and with 99.8% accuracy, too!      :pop41:

Good one!!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 07, 2019, 11:42:11 AM
Foolish beyond belief: In Syria Trump just betrayed our allies and helped our enemies
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/foolish-beyond-belief-in-syria-trump-just-betrayed-our-allies-and-helped-our-enemies (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/foolish-beyond-belief-in-syria-trump-just-betrayed-our-allies-and-helped-our-enemies)


'A big win for Iran and Assad': Lindsey Graham rips Trump decision to pull troops out of northern Syria
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/a-big-win-for-iran-and-assad-lindsey-graham-rips-trump-decision-to-pull-troops-out-of-northern-syria (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/a-big-win-for-iran-and-assad-lindsey-graham-rips-trump-decision-to-pull-troops-out-of-northern-syria)


Trump's Syria decision will be responsible for ISIS 2.0
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trumps-syria-decision-will-be-responsible-for-isis-2-0 (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trumps-syria-decision-will-be-responsible-for-isis-2-0)



there's many more, but you get the picture!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 11:45:29 AM
Okay, if the USA had never gone over there in the first place, one can argue that ISIS never would have risen up, it's been a comedy of errors though, I think Obama deserves most of the blame.

ISIS was conceived and born on Barack Obama's watch.

Seeing Egypt 'fall' to the Muslim Brotherhood... seeing Libya's Gadaffi slaughtered by a mob in the street ("We Came, He Saw, He Died, ROFL!!"...Hillary Clinton), seeing Iraq's advances evaporate by pulling out all military...

Obama was right.  Elections suck!   If GWB didn't have to deal with presidential elections, Iraqis could still have their 'Republic' today.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 11:45:40 AM
I recall the prevailing attitude towards the Mujahideen in the 80s. They were our 'allies' whom we couldn't betray. That sure worked out well.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 11:53:59 AM
The Kurds spilled their blood for us, they have also been allied with the Christians (Assyrians) though, 100 years ago, 1915 and maybe 1918 too, they persecuted them.
Quote
Mike
@Doranimated
We aligned under Obama not with “the Kurds,” but with the PKK, the sworn enemy of the Turkish Republic, our ally.  We were sowing the seeds of a Turkish-PKK war with that policy. We were also driving Turkey toward Russia.

https://twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1181125761203408897

So, I think in part, this is what this is about... but that doesn't change things to me.

Also, as of 2 days ago, there were mumurings that the Turks themselves could have fired on our troops. There's a whole lot of bogus info out there. A lot of people very upset, me too... like last December, all we do is go back to the same square one and why Mattis left.

Graham is already announcing a bill that would sanction Turkey if they invade, about the most we could do, it doesn't sound like much.
Quote
Lindsey Graham
@LindseyGrahamSC
Replying to
@LindseyGrahamSC
 and
@ChrisVanHollen
Hope and expect sanctions against Turkey – if necessary – would be veto-proof.

This decision to abandon our Kurdish allies and turn Syria over to Russia, Iran, & Turkey will put every radical Islamist on steroids.  Shot in the arm to the bad guys.  Devastating for the good guys.

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1181219809427623936

Quote
Nikki Haley
@NikkiHaley
·
2h
We must always have the backs of our allies, if we expect them to have our back.  The Kurds were instrumental in our successful fight against ISIS in Syria.  Leaving them to die is a big mistake.  #TurkeyIsNotOurFriend
https://twitter.com/NikkiHaley/status/1181191973367160834

Graham has been on top of this all the way, I note that anti-Graham thread yesterday but I think he's doing well.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 12:03:07 PM
It's a bit disconcerting.   Maybe the Kurds are the bait to draw them out in the open?

Maybe Rush can sort it out.   He's on in 30 min.

Oh crap.   Thanks for the reminder.  It's now 3-4 min. away and I was too absorbed in this convo to tune in...lol. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 12:05:27 PM
The Kurds spilled their blood for us, they have also been allied with the Christians (Assyrians) though, 100 years ago, 1915 and maybe 1918 too, they persecuted them.
So, I think in part, this is what this is about... but that doesn't change things to me.

Also, as of 2 days ago, there were mumurings that the Turks themselves could have fired on our troops. There's a whole lot of bogus info out there. A lot of people very upset, me too... like last December, all we do is go back to the same square one and why Mattis left.

Graham is already announcing a bill that would sanction Turkey if they invade, about the most we could do, it doesn't sound like much.
Graham has been on top of this all the way, I note that anti-Graham thread yesterday but I think he's doing well.

Ahem.....

'A stain on America's honor': Lindsey Graham says Trump's Syria pullout abandons Kurds, helps ISIS

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/10/07/trump-defends-syria-withdrawal/3896039002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/10/07/trump-defends-syria-withdrawal/3896039002/)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 12:24:46 PM
I know, now Trump is saying, if the Turks do not behave, he will destroy their economy. Well, maybe he knows what he's talking about.  I'm not saying he does, just stating what is going on.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 12:25:06 PM
I don't think giving Turkey a green light to invade Syria so the Turks can wipe out our ally the Kurds is a good idea. In fact I think it is a
terrible idea. I want the troops home too, at the very least Trump should have told Turkey to stay out of Syria. The Turks are as bad
as the NAZIs were.

Why the hell is Turkey in NATO?  This is actually a serious question @jpsb
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 12:27:26 PM
Sooo.... I guess this means we'll also be (finally) pulling completely out of Afghanistan, as well.   Right?

I don't know @XenaLee    :shrug:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 12:27:59 PM
I know, now Trump is saying, if the Turks do not behave, he will destroy their economy. Well, maybe he knows what he's talking about.  I'm not saying he does, just stating what is going on.

Economic sanctions "may", if at all, only work on a long-term basis.   What about the here and now urgency of folks being slaughtered?  I want the troops home as much as anybody, but I don't want the US to be the cause of allowing genocide or massacres.   It's a Catch-22.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 12:29:31 PM
Where the hell would the cold war have gone without Turkey. Seriously, @jpsb

Not everything is seen in clear simple ways.

Turkey probably was a crucial cold war partner to keep tabs on the USSR; now, 30 years after the Cold War, they probably should have been booted out 10 years ago at least.

But that just means, they might be Russia's ally and that might not be the best choice.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 12:31:24 PM
Romney calls Trump's Syria decision a 'betrayal' of Kurds
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/464642-romney-calls-trumps-syria-decision-a-betrayal-of-kurds

Even the PKK?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 12:32:34 PM
Economic sanctions "may", if at all, only work on a long-term basis.   What about the here and now urgency of folks being slaughtered?  I want the troops home as much as anybody, but I don't want the US to be the cause of allowing genocide or massacres.   It's a Catch-22.

I totally agree, what Graham suggested sounds a bit impotent. That was my immediate reaction.

Our nukes are also over at Incilirk airbase in Turkey.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 12:35:19 PM
No...   But at least put a plan in place to get them out of harms way.

And what makes you think the Kurds would accept this?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 12:36:17 PM
I totally agree, what Graham suggested sounds a bit impotent. That was my immediate reaction.

Our nukes are also over at Incilirk airbase in Turkey.

Which... makes absolutely no sense to me.  WTH?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 07, 2019, 12:39:05 PM
Trump faces pushback from Republicans on withdrawing troops from northern Syria
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-faces-push-back-from-republicans-on-withdrawing-troops-from-northern-syria (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-faces-push-back-from-republicans-on-withdrawing-troops-from-northern-syria)



Inside the US, Turkey, Kurdish triangle
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/inside-the-us-turkey-kurdish-triangle (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/inside-the-us-turkey-kurdish-triangle)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 07, 2019, 12:43:22 PM
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.


His private parts?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 12:46:10 PM
Which... makes absolutely no sense to me.  WTH?

It's a throwback to the Cold War, we had nukes there to keep the USSR/Russkies in place. That's my view, nothing expert about it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 07, 2019, 12:52:05 PM
Don't you hate it when Romney's right?

Beam me up, Scotty! 

On an unrelated note, the firestorm surrounding the Houston Rockets' GM re: China/Hong Kong has illustrated the hypocrisy of NBA owners and players. It appears the SJW's in the NBA are bending over backwards to mollify the Chinese regime.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 12:53:13 PM
How would you propose we solve the Kurdish problem @mystery-ak   They are in four different countries, fighting all of them.

Which country do we choose to fight so the Kurds can carve out a safe haven ....  even though the Kurds now in Syria don't like the Kurds in Iraq who don't like the Kurds in Turkey who don't like the Kurds in Iran. . and so forth and so on.

(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)



Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 12:55:28 PM
Rush will defend Trump no matter what he says or does...

Hence the reason I stopped listening to him 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 12:57:37 PM
Okay, if the USA had never gone over there in the first place, one can argue that ISIS never would have risen up, it's been a comedy of errors though, I think Obama deserves most of the blame.

Once can argue that...but they'd be wrong.  That's a shortsighted mistake a lot of people...including some in DC make.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 12:59:17 PM
Hence the reason I stopped listening to him 3 years ago.

That explains a lot.  Thank you.    :laugh:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 12:59:39 PM
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever.  The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.

I was wondering if any of the Orange Brigade at TBR would defend  his actions.   You answered that question nicely, and predictably.

Absolutely right. There is blood on the ground. And that blood holds a promise to allies. Ad it holds a commitment  to win. This is a shameful day.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 07, 2019, 01:00:47 PM
How would you propose we solve the Kurdish problem @mystery-ak   They are in four different countries, fighting all of them.

Which country do we choose to fight so the Kurds can carve out a safe haven ....  even though the Kurds now in Syria don't like the Kurds in Iraq who don't like the Kurds in Turkey who don't like the Kurds in Iran. . and so forth and so on.

(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)



Good points RIV, history between these peoples is far too deep, too much mistrust among all the parties involved. International community is too involved with other matters, and the UN is a feckless, corrupt organization.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 01:01:52 PM
You'd think we'd be smarter than to get in the middle of a foreign feud by now, thinking we can 'solve' the centuries old problem from thousands of miles away

I guess not.

Doesn't matter. We're in it now. So win it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 01:03:51 PM
How much are you willing to scarifice on our home soil when the attacks start over here?

Any truth to the reports that since 2017 PKK is fighting alongside Antifa @txradioguy ?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 01:04:25 PM
Absolutely right. There is blood on the ground. And that blood holds a promise to allies. Ad it holds a commitment  to win. This is a shameful day.

That high horse makes your ass look big.

Show us your post(s) displaying the same emotion when Obama/Biden unilaterally picked up and left Iraq?

Pres. Trump has already 'promised' Turkey he will destroy their economy if he doesn't play nice.

Does he strike you as man who doesn't keep his promises?   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 01:05:22 PM
Doesn't matter. We're in it now. So win it.

Well I must say I had no idea it'd be that easy.

Can't wait to hear the plan.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 01:08:07 PM
So we're going for version 2 of Bush #1 abandoning the Kurds to Saddam after we asked them to rise up and "help" us...

It is a bloody stain on our country and will cost thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lives all over again.

It is of low character to start something and not keep your word if at all possible. Why would anyone take our word for life and death issues in the future. Honor comes with a cost.

That's damn well right. Great to see you @DB   :beer: :patriot: :seeya:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: massadvj on October 07, 2019, 01:10:09 PM
Whether you agree with the decision or not, it should come as no surprise.  Trump is an isolationist through and through.  He distrusts the entire foreign intelligence apparatus, which has been wrong about every foreign intervention since the Kuwait War, and thinks only in terms of American interests.  Personally, I find this point of view refreshing in a US president.  I wish GWB had this kind of hesitancy before he got us entangled in Iraq.

The truth is, all countries exist as the result of the use of force.  If countries are going to exist thanks to us using our force, then we ought to be getting some benefit.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 07, 2019, 01:10:30 PM
How would you propose we solve the Kurdish problem @mystery-ak   They are in four different countries, fighting all of them.

Which country do we choose to fight so the Kurds can carve out a safe haven ....  even though the Kurds now in Syria don't like the Kurds in Iraq who don't like the Kurds in Turkey who don't like the Kurds in Iran. . and so forth and so on.

(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)

RIV I am posting links to articles not proposing a solution to the Kurd/Turkey problem......If I knew what to do I would be in DC!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 01:12:26 PM
Whether you agree with the decision or not, it should come as no surprise.  Trump is an isolationist through and through.  He distrusts the entire foreign intelligence apparatus, which has been wrong about every foreign intervention since the Kuwait War, and thinks only in terms of American interests.  Personally, I find this point of view refreshing in a US president.  I wish GWB had this kind of hesitancy before he got us entangled in Iraq.

The truth is, all countries exist as the result of the use of force.  If countries are going to exist thanks to us using our force, then we ought to be getting some benefit.

Common sense.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 01:12:50 PM
That high horse makes your ass look big.

Show us your post(s) displaying the same emotion when Obama/Biden unilaterally picked up and left Iraq?

Pres. Trump has already 'promised' Turkey he will destroy their economy if he doesn't play nice.

Does he strike you as man who doesn't keep his promises?

Those posts are on TOS from me. Same ID.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 01:15:26 PM
There's plenty to debate whether we should have given our word in the first place - but we did. Either we honor it or we don't.

That's right. I am exactly in the same spot. I prefer not to enter into foreign entanglements. But once we do... The foremost commitment to defcons, and to our soldiers, is to mean it... And to bring honor to their fallen. Make it damn well count.

This ain't how.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:21:00 PM
Quote
I wish GWB had this kind of hesitancy before he got us entangled in Iraq.

Right becasue allowing Saddam to look the other way while al Qaeda had training camps and were testing nerve gas concoctions and (surprise) fighting the Kurds should have just gone unchecked.

"Our war on terror begins with al-Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated." ~ George W. Bush Septemer 2001
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 07, 2019, 01:25:18 PM
Right becasue allowing Saddam to look the other way while al Qaeda had training camps and were testing nerve gas concoctions and (surprise) fighting the Kurds should have just gone unchecked.

"Our war on terror begins with al-Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated." ~ George W. Bush Septemer 2001

Is this the same GW Bush that was watching yesterday's Cowboys game with Ellen DeGeneres?

 :3:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:29:34 PM
Any truth to the reports that since 2017 PKK is fighting alongside Antifa @txradioguy ?

I don't even know where you came up with that totally insane question.

Considering the PKK is in the Middle East and Antifa is a completely home grown hard left organization what you're asking is well...



Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 01:29:50 PM
It might not apply to the Kurds who battled Saddam to begin with but they aren't the only group involved. A lot of people would say they had it a lot better before 2003.

The Christian population dwindled greatly post-2003. Those are just facts, there might be a number of reasons for that.

You see, one reason why Christians are persecuted is that if the West invades, Christians can become a scapegoat per the "Crusaders" moving in there.

Christians did make even some appeals to Dubya to try to secure the area better, that's very much on record.

Anyway, I'm not playing the blame game, there's more reasons than just the "KURDS" to see this out.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:30:40 PM
Is this the same GW Bush that was watching yesterday's Cowboys game with Ellen DeGeneres?

 :3:

One and the same.  She probably jinxed us too.

I didn't say he was perfect and I disagreed with a lot of what he did.  But on this and how he took care of the military he was spot on.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 01:31:02 PM
Right becasue allowing Saddam to look the other way while al Qaeda had training camps and were testing nerve gas concoctions and (surprise) fighting the Kurds should have just gone unchecked.

"Our war on terror begins with al-Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated." ~ George W. Bush Septemer 2001

You left out Yellow Cake. Its pretty clear that taken as a whole our intervention in Iraq was a disaster. At least a very good case can be made it was.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 07, 2019, 01:34:46 PM
Oh really?  So lets just let Iran and Turkey take over the entire region right?


They already have. Iran has influence from the Arabian Gulf to the Mediterranean Sea. Yemen, Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon are all in their grip. Erdogan just wants what they have. The caliphate is not dead, it is just in the process of changing hands.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 01:35:08 PM
That high horse makes your ass look big.

Show us your post(s) displaying the same emotion when Obama/Biden unilaterally picked up and left Iraq?


You're the one accusing, @DCPatriot  - I won't do your work for you. But I will tell you what you will find, because that is one of the nice things about being  Conservative - Consistency. I would NEVER be *for* tuckin tail and running. You will find me grumpy about being there... to include Afghanistan, where I very vocally and accurately predicted a war we could not win - No one wins in Afghanistan. But you will not find me happy about getting out without that win. To honor the fallen, it must mean something... That they did not die in vain.

This is shameful. Dishonorable. And no doubt I said the very same to Obama.

Quote
Pres. Trump has already 'promised' Turkey he will destroy their economy if he doesn't play nice.

Does he strike you as man who doesn't keep his promises?

Yes he does. Nothing that comes out of his mouth means a damn thing.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 07, 2019, 01:36:54 PM
You don't know me and I wouldn't dignify your post by answering anything personal.  But I am sure there are many military families that may.

Trump is a huge failure.  He is unhinged and he can't even tackle the job of foreign affairs.  Instead of Diplomacy he engages in name calling and childish texts.  Texts that insult instead of encourage diplomatic ties.

Yes, my family and extended family is military.  We should get the hell out of there. It's not worth our blood.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:38:02 PM
You left out Yellow Cake.

We still haven't found all of the missing materials from the Tuwaitha plant.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 01:39:32 PM
Well I must say I had no idea it'd be that easy.

Can't wait to hear the plan.

There I will have to defer to the Joint Chiefs... unless they show their cowardice as well.
This ain't right.
 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:40:30 PM
You left out Yellow Cake. Its pretty clear that taken as a whole our intervention in Iraq was a disaster. At least a very good case can be made it was.

And it's all made mainly by people who didn't set foot there.  Armchair Generals who pontificate from afar.  I was there in 2003 saw what was goin on on the ground.

The same can't be said for 99% of the isolationists and non-interventionist trolls who like to sharp shoot missions like Iraq after the fact and after the politicians hace bleep everything up.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 01:45:38 PM
You left out Yellow Cake. Its pretty clear that taken as a whole our intervention in Iraq was a disaster. At least a very good case can be made it was.

I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 01:49:51 PM
You left out Yellow Cake. Its pretty clear that taken as a whole our intervention in Iraq was a disaster. At least a very good case can be made it was.

The fatal mistake was "nation building" which I was against. Nation building consumed all the time and lost lives. It was an ill guided dream that had no realistic hope of being achieved in that culture.

We should have taken out Saddam and promptly left. We could have told the locals we will leave when he's dead. Leaving him as a smoldering warning to all other dictators that want to mess with us.

That's something both Iran and North Korea would have understood.

That would have been true Shock and Awe.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 01:53:15 PM
RIV I am posting links to articles not proposing a solution to the Kurd/Turkey problem......If I knew what to do I would be in DC!

Well come on down anyway!  We could use you!   :laugh:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:54:18 PM
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.

Bingo!  888high58888
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 01:56:03 PM
I don't even know where you came up with that totally insane question.  Considering the PKK is in the Middle East and Antifa is a completely home grown hard left organization what you're asking is well...

I'm not saying it's true ... my asking if there's any truth to these reports was a serious question @txradioguy  Those reports are, obviously, cropping up again and I figured you would know more than I about this. 

So I'll ignore the snark and go with a "no" answer from you.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 01:57:59 PM
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.

That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me before.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:59:18 PM

Charles C. W. Cooke

@charlescwcooke
Maybe we shouldn’t let the executive branch decide on a whim where and when we are at war, and where and when we are not. We could do something else instead, maybe involving the legislature. We could call it Article I, Section 8, Clause 11.



Charles C. W. Cooke

@charlescwcooke
Replying to @charlescwcooke
Don’t ask, tell. That’s the legislature’s job—arguably its most important job. At present, the executive has a free hand, and it can proffer or withdraw it at will. Don’t reactively sanction the actions you dislike; draw hard lines that must be followed. https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1181181862183604224 …



Charles C. W. Cooke

@charlescwcooke
Replying to @charlescwcooke
“I’m alarmed that the president is usurping the constitutional authority of my branch,” said Senator Partisan (D/R-All 50 States). “I intend to ask him to reverse course, do nothing else legislatively, and then endorse him for re-election, just as I’ve done for decades.”


Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 02:00:24 PM
I'm not saying it's true ... my asking if there's any truth to these reports was a serious question @txradioguy  Those reports are, obviously, cropping up again and I figured you would know more than I about this. 

So I'll ignore the snark and go with a "no" answer from you.

Thanks.

That wasn't snark.

Please link to this silliness you tossed out into the middle of this discussion.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 02:03:49 PM
How would you propose we solve the Kurdish problem @mystery-ak   They are in four different countries, fighting all of them.

Which country do we choose to fight so the Kurds can carve out a safe haven ....  even though the Kurds now in Syria don't like the Kurds in Iraq who don't like the Kurds in Turkey who don't like the Kurds in Iran. . and so forth and so on.

(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)

The Kurds are not fighting Iraq, they have their own autonomously governed area.

Only 1000-2000 troops in Northern Syria, I heard it was down to a thousand, not many to just pull them out, low risk.

Boy Jorge and Bathouse Berry saw the Christians decimated in Iraq, the time of the Trump administration has seen ISIS severely beaten back, term it how one wants.

We have a moral obligation, hopefully Trump will not be pigheaded about this.

No thanks to those putting Trump down at every possible place,  ISIS got beat back, even if it's just due to Trump getting out of the way of the Military and the likes of Mattis.  We voters did it, let's hope we continue to get this right. For all we know, Trump could be correct in what is he saying? "Unmatched wisdom".

Quote
Hours after announcing his decision to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria — provoking alarm and outrage among foreign policy experts, Republican officials and right-wing commentators who warn it could empower ISIS in the region — President Trump on Monday defended the move as an expression of his “great and unmatched wisdom.” He coupled it with a warning that he’d “totally destroy and obliterate” the economy of Turkey if he’s unhappy with how the country carries out its planned assault on Kurdish fighters.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-my-great-unmatched-wisdom-totally-destroy-obliterate-turkey-syria-170430952.html (https://news.yahoo.com/trump-my-great-unmatched-wisdom-totally-destroy-obliterate-turkey-syria-170430952.html)

Time to do right, we did it, the negative Nellies didn't and time to remind you of that.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 02:05:15 PM
That wasn't snark.

Please link to this silliness you tossed out into the middle of this discussion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018141/ISIS-connection-anarchists-revealed-Ed-Klein-book.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018141/ISIS-connection-anarchists-revealed-Ed-Klein-book.html)

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 02:10:43 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018141/ISIS-connection-anarchists-revealed-Ed-Klein-book.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018141/ISIS-connection-anarchists-revealed-Ed-Klein-book.html)

Awww thanks. RIV.  APpreciate that.

Ed Klein huh?  I figured it had to be some kind of Progressive "journalist".  Thanks for proving me right.

BTW...@DCPatriot I thought you always dismissed people who were writers for Newsweek...the NY Times and gossip columnists as not credible and "fake news"?


Are they fake news when they are critical of Trump and legit sources when you're White Knighting for someone?  Just trying to figure out when Newsweek and the NY Times are credible and when they aren't.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 02:14:40 PM
Awww thanks. RIV.  APpreciate that.

Ed Klein huh?  I figured it had to be some kind of Progressive "journalist".  Thanks for proving me right.

BTW...@DCPatriot I thought you always dismissed people who were writers for Newsweek...the NY Times and gossip columnists as not credible and "fake news"?


Are they fake news when they are critical of Trump and legit sources when you're White Knighting for someone?  Just trying to figure out when Newsweek and the NY Times are credible and when they aren't.

Nope....all I did was google Isis Antifa Connection....and grabbed the first one that wasn't Alex Jones.   :tongue2:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 02:16:38 PM
Bingo!  888high58888

I get it...

That does not mean I am for the moderate globalist nation building that is going on parallel to that purpose... The true purpose is apparent, and served nonetheless.

 :beer:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 02:20:35 PM
Charles C. W. Cooke

@charlescwcooke
Maybe we shouldn’t let the executive branch decide on a whim where and when we are at war, and where and when we are not. We could do something else instead, maybe involving the legislature. We could call it Article I, Section 8, Clause 11.



Charles C. W. Cooke

@charlescwcooke
Replying to @charlescwcooke
Don’t ask, tell. That’s the legislature’s job—arguably its most important job. At present, the executive has a free hand, and it can proffer or withdraw it at will. Don’t reactively sanction the actions you dislike; draw hard lines that must be followed. https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1181181862183604224 …



Charles C. W. Cooke

@charlescwcooke
Replying to @charlescwcooke
“I’m alarmed that the president is usurping the constitutional authority of my branch,” said Senator Partisan (D/R-All 50 States). “I intend to ask him to reverse course, do nothing else legislatively, and then endorse him for re-election, just as I’ve done for decades.”

Charles Cooke was totally trashed as a member of the TOS. He was deemed not a "conservative" because he didn't bend with the populist wind there.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 02:21:25 PM
Nope....all I did was google Isis Antifa Connection....and grabbed the first one that wasn't Alex Jones.   :tongue2:

 :beer:

LOL! I think Ed Klein and Alex Jones would get along quite nicely.  Funny thing about people like them...regardless of politics...they are both so far to the left and right fringe they end up meeting in the middle and find lots of common ground.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 02:22:53 PM
That wasn't snark.

Please link to this silliness you tossed out into the middle of this discussion. 

Why?  So you can start war within a war with me as your target @txradioguy

You ... as resident expert on all things military .... said there's no truth to the reports.

I accept that. 

You are free to move on.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 02:23:17 PM
Charles Cooke was totally trashed as a member of the TOS. He was deemed not a "conservative" because he didn't bend with the populist wind there.

@DB as were many of us here.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 02:24:24 PM
That's a good point that hadn't occurred to me before.

Sadly, I am not military (4F'd)... But I am a mountain boy, and I know there ain't nothing that will get me out of those mountains, to include all the might of the United States of America. I get dug in like a tick, all you can do is scratch.

That tends to be the case in any mountain fighting. No matter the force, the terrain will always favor the locals. To wit: The mountains of Afghanistan have broken the back of every country that ever tried to take them. We are no different in that.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 02:24:52 PM
I get it...

That does not mean I am for the moderate globalist nation building that is going on parallel to that purpose... The true purpose is apparent, and served nonetheless.

 :beer:

If the politicians would let the Generals and the Soldiers do what we're trained to do...this would have been over much much sooner.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 02:25:30 PM
:beer:

LOL! I think Ed Klein and Alex Jones would get along quite nicely.  Funny thing about people like them...regardless of politics...they are both so far to the left and right fringe they end up meeting in the middle and find lots of common ground.

LOL!   :beer:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 06:37:01 PM
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.

Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: kevindavis on October 07, 2019, 06:42:05 PM
Is this the same GW Bush that was watching yesterday's Cowboys game with Ellen DeGeneres?

 :3:


So what? The horror of going to a football game with someone you disagree with politically.  Big Frakin deal.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: aligncare on October 07, 2019, 06:48:32 PM
Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.

Yep. ”Democratizing” Iraq opened up a Pandora’s box of hurt in the region and effectively flushed about $6 to $8 trillion in treasure down the drain, and losses to the families of fallen troops, incalculable.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 07, 2019, 06:53:08 PM
I think it was a rousing success. The whole point of Iraq, omitting the political dancing, is that it s easier to kill them in a sandbox than on the eternal mountains of Afghanistan... And it was, and still is.


It is true that there was a large jihadi call to the region and we got rid of a lot of people that may have had designs of causing problems here. Still, we have someone like Muqtada al-Sadr in charge of Iraq, now. Along with fighting them there, instead of here, there was the whole idea of nation building and western style democracy, spreading across the region. That was folly.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 07:01:23 PM
AFP 
Quote
#BREAKING The US has redeployed only 50-100 troops away from Syria's northern border as Turkish troops threaten to cross, a senior administration official said, denying reports that Washington pulling out completely from the country

https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1181323484015861762. 

Also, while a missile strike was reported on today, it was on the Turk side.
Quote
You Retweeted
Joyce Karam
@Joyce_Karam
·
1h
Wow US Senior official completely contradicts Trump on #Syria

• NOT beginning of Pullout
• US troops moving within Syria
• US 50 Special Ops moving to different locations/basis
• US doesn’t support Turkey operation but mentions refugees + ISIS captives

https://mobile.twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1181316118633431040
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 07:04:09 PM
It's a throwback to the Cold War, we had nukes there to keep the USSR/Russkies in place. That's my view, nothing expert about it.

Well, you know... as time goes on... things change.   I repeat....

WTH?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 07:07:30 PM
Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.

Which is a rather rude and startling wake up call.   Because... at that time... I (and my entire family, circle of friends and associates) thought we were doing the "right thing" by going into Iraq and eliminating Saddam.   Scary to realize that we can be so easily fooled.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 07, 2019, 07:25:19 PM
The only way to stop this sh!t is to kill every Moslem out there.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Free Vulcan on October 07, 2019, 07:31:45 PM
I don't know what to think.

I don't like abandoning the Kurds, but the Kurds also have their own internal problems as well as the PKK.

The rest of the Middle East is also a dog's breakfast and everything we do there turns to turd.

Yet, if we leave it alone as we have tried before, things like 9/11 happen, Israel is attacked, Iran sows terrorisim everywhere, and Russia gets back into empire building mode. Now throw China in the mix.

What the hell do you do?

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 07, 2019, 07:38:51 PM
I don't know what to think.

I don't like abandoning the Kurds, but the Kurds also have their own internal problems as well as the PKK.

The rest of the Middle East is also a dog's breakfast and everything we do there turns to turd.

Yet, if we leave it alone as we have tried before, things like 9/11 happen, Israel is attacked, Iran sows terrorisim everywhere, and Russia gets back into empire building mode. Now throw China in the mix.

What the hell do you do?

Again, Catch 22.   We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.   Especially if and when we have a Congress and government infected and embedded with anti-American traitors seeking our defeat, destruction and demise.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 07:56:50 PM
And what makes you think the Kurds would accept this?

Maybe intelligence that they would be facing a 10:1 force disadvantage, plus the wrath of all the technology Russia has provided Turkey.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on October 07, 2019, 08:22:59 PM
I don't know what to think.

I don't like abandoning the Kurds, but the Kurds also have their own internal problems as well as the PKK.

The rest of the Middle East is also a dog's breakfast and everything we do there turns to turd.

Yet, if we leave it alone as we have tried before, things like 9/11 happen, Israel is attacked, Iran sows terrorisim everywhere, and Russia gets back into empire building mode. Now throw China in the mix.

What the hell do you do?

Drill deep, drill wide.  Drill here, drill there, pretty soon man you drill everywhere.

At the same time, support "alternate" energy sources by getting gov't out of the picking winners/losers.

Without massive oil revenues, what's the ME good for?  I believe it was @thackney who once posted that the SOBs even had to import sand.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 08:47:36 PM
Drill deep, drill wide.  Drill here, drill there, pretty soon man you drill everywhere.

At the same time, support "alternate" energy sources by getting gov't out of the picking winners/losers.

Without massive oil revenues, what's the ME good for?  I believe it was @thackney who once posted that the SOBs even had to import sand.


LOL!   To make private island homesites in Dubai.  Yes.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 07, 2019, 08:55:50 PM
Exactly about the ME, oil and too, I guess Israel.

Look how conflicted Africa has been for decades and we mostly don't care. I guess, if we see Islamic terrorists are there, like El Shabaab or ISIS in West Africa, we might become involved.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 08:56:16 PM
Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.

Np. Of we had not pulled out prematurely and allowed the government to take root, THEN Iran would not be there. and THEN the Christians would not be wiped out.

No matter how you jiggle, and no matter how you dance, there's a couple hundred thousand hot headed towelheads that are now under the ground... And they didn't come running for them damn mountains.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: aligncare on October 07, 2019, 09:10:45 PM
Wow, all this handwringing, over like what?—at most 2-platoons pulling out of Syria?

If that small contingent of US troops is all it takes to save the Middle East from utter collapse, then Trump should definitely leave them in place. /s
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 09:52:16 PM
Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.

Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.

I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.

What a stupid comment.  This isn't about me.  Its about bad foreign policy and opening the door for many people to be killed.  For ISIS to revamp and become active again.  If you really liked Trump you would tell him this is wrong.  It is so wrong.  Nikki Haley has come out against it.  Lindsey Graham.  The Pentagon.  Pat Robertson too.  Says he is going to loose the heaven mandate.  Whatever that means.  I don't think he ever had one, but oh well.

Not everything is about elections but Conservatives don't like this decision.  It is wrong.  Absolutely wrong.  Only the presidents lap dogs are going to be loyal on this decision.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 09:57:01 PM
WTF are you talking about.  Obama abandoned the Kurds.  IF anything he was more friendly with Erdogan.

Hey guess what Tom...ISIS isn't "dethroned" now.  And if your hero gets his way...there's gonna be 10K pissed off ISIS fighters back on the battlefield ready to pick up where they left off with the whole Caliphate thing.

Lindsey Graham flat out said the president was lying about ISIS.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:08:51 PM
I don't even know where you came up with that totally insane question.

Considering the PKK is in the Middle East and Antifa is a completely home grown hard left organization what you're asking is well...

Maybe hanging out at Q. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:28:15 PM

It is true that there was a large jihadi call to the region and we got rid of a lot of people that may have had designs of causing problems here. Still, we have someone like Muqtada al-Sadr in charge of Iraq, now. Along with fighting them there, instead of here, there was the whole idea of nation building and western style democracy, spreading across the region. That was folly.

Sure was because Sharia and Democracy cannot coexist.  I knew it was over when they were writing Islam into the Constitution.  And at that time is when the real trouble began for the Kurds also.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 10:31:56 PM
Maybe hanging out at Q.

Nope.  Simply google "Antifa and PKK".  You'll pull up a string of articles @Chosen Daughter   They're from sites I'm not familiar with, and that triggered my question to @txradioguy

He thinks the reports are bogus and that's good enough for me.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Victoria33 on October 07, 2019, 10:31:57 PM
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty
@roamer_1
@catfish1957
@jpsb
@DB
@txradioguy

Eyewitness to Treatment of Kurds by Turks

In the 1970s, Geophysicist Bob was sent to Turkey by Gulf Oil to do systemic readings off the coast of Turkey in the Mediterranean Sea continuing on land where the Kurds lived and still do.

Bob employed Kurds in this work.  It was okay with Turkey for him to employ Kurds because Turkish officials and Turks in general treated the Kurds as subhuman.   The Kurds also had their own religion which the Turks also hated.  Bob said the Kurd men were strong and dedicated to the work they did for him/Gulf.

The Turks in the area were cruel to the Kurds.  He said many times he saw Turk men hit Kurd children of all ages, over the head with batons until the children were bleeding out their ears and noses.  That meant they had brain concussions and most likely brain injury.  He could do nothing about it and neither could the Kurds in that time period.

Now, without our help to the Kurds, this present generation of Kurds are going to be killed by these cruel Turks of this generation.  Evidently, to Trump, the Kurds are expendable if he saves some government money to pay to his personal Florida location for the G7 to meet next year.  Why connect this Kurd extinction to money for his personal gain?  I did it because he has no empathy for anyone except himself.  He understands money for him but not for the lives of humans and God made Kurds or they would not be there.   He is responsible for any deaths of Kurds that happen due to our leaving there.

Erdogan must have praised Trump during this October 7, 2019, phone call:  "Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and US counterpart Donald Trump agreed during a phone call to meet in Washington next month to discuss creating a “safe zone” in northern Syria, the Turkish presidency said Sunday."  That call happened and now we are leaving the Kurds to Erdogan to do as he wishes.

The President of Turkey, Erdogan, must have heaped praise on Trump the last time they saw each other and talked at the UN, and that did it - "The Kurds be damned, Erdogan said nice things about me."

Consider the rest in quotes:

Turkey’s president threatens to launch solo army operation into northeast Syria despite US presence  October 6, 2019

Recep Tayyip Erdogan issued his strongest warning yet that action to secure border may go ahead at any moment

Turkey reinforced army units at the Syrian border hours after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan signalled an imminent cross-border operation against US-backed Kurdish militants in Syria.

Turkey sent additional armoured vehicles and troops to the border town of Akcakale late Saturday, across from Tal Abyad in Syria, according to state TV television TRT.

Erdogan said earlier in the day that Turkey was ready to start a military operation in northern Syria to claim areas from the Kurdish militant group YPG and may act “as soon as today or tomorrow”.

“We have made our preparations, completed our operation plans,” Erdogan said at an AK Party meeting in Kizilcahamam in Ankara Province.

“We have given the necessary orders.” The operation in the east of the Euphrates river in northern Syria would be carried out by land and air, he said.

Erdogan has vowed to create a buffer zone inside Syria by pushing back Kurdish militants and settling Syrian refugees in the country’s north.

Turkey suspects that the US is backing Kurdish aspirations for self-rule in Syria and is prepared to use military force to prevent what it perceives as an attempt to redraw the region’s map.
(End quote)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 10:33:05 PM
Lindsey Graham flat out said the president was lying about ISIS.

Have you a link to this "flat out" quote @Chosen Daughter 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:38:09 PM
Have you a link to this "flat out" quote @Chosen Daughter

Take your pick

https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Lindsey+Graham+Says+The+President+Is+Lying+About+ISIS&qpvt=Lindsey+Graham+says+the+president+is+lying+about+ISIS&FORM=EWRE (https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Lindsey+Graham+Says+The+President+Is+Lying+About+ISIS&qpvt=Lindsey+Graham+says+the+president+is+lying+about+ISIS&FORM=EWRE)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 07, 2019, 10:40:54 PM
WTF are you talking about.  Obama abandoned the Kurds.  IF anything he was more friendly with Erdogan.

Hey guess what Tom...ISIS isn't "dethroned" now.  And if your hero gets his way...there's gonna be 10K pissed off ISIS fighters back on the battlefield ready to pick up where they left off with the whole Caliphate thing.

Exactly and this is concerning. Trump ignoring the Pentagon and others who are far more experienced and informed about the situation is absolutely troubling. In addition, our southern border is still wide open and we literally have people from all over the world coming in, which very easily could include ISIS. Does anyone truly know if they are already here waiting in the shadows?  This could very easily see this as a golden opportunity and reason to strike.  Instead of fighting them in the ME, we very well could be fighting them on our own turf.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 07, 2019, 10:44:38 PM
Trump’s Former ISIS Envoy Slams Syria Pullout: ‘Donald Trump Is Not Commander-In-Chief’

Zachary Evans
,National Review•October 7, 2019

Brett McGurk, former presidential envoy to the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS, slammed President Trump on Monday after the U.S. announced it was withdrawing troops from the Syrian-Turkish border region.

The pullback comes in advance of a planned Turkish invasion of the area. Turkey asserts it wants to create a “safe zone” inside Syria to resettle 3.6 million refugees from the Syrian civil war who are currently residing in Turkey, while Kurdish forces in northern Syria warn that Turkey wants to weaken their hold on the region by flooding the region with Sunni Arab Muslims.

“Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief,” McGurk wrote on Twitter. “He sends military personnel into harm’s way with no backing. He blusters and then leaves our allies exposed when adversaries call his bluff or he confronts a hard phone call.”

McGurk had resigned from his post in December 2018 after Trump announced a withdrawal of U.S. troops from other parts of Syria. The withdrawal
came after Trump declared ISIS defeated.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-former-isis-envoy-slams-141157989.html
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 10:55:58 PM
Just a reminder:  The Kurds have been fighting a war with Turkey for 41 years.  They're trying to annex Turkish territory for a Kurdistan of some sort or the other. Another clarification:  Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America  has it been to help America.  They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed.  For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure:  Money, weapons and training. 

Another reminder:  Turkey is a NATO member ... one who is hosting, as I type, 50 US nuclear weapons.  Like it or not, Turkey is our ally, not the Kurds.

For the do-gooders out there, if the US is to assist the Kurds with carving out a Kurdistan ... we'd need to directly fight at least one country.  I wish some neocon would choose one and explain how we keep Russia out of it.  Here are the potential battlefields--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey.  Choose one.

(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:18:34 PM
I totally agree, what Graham suggested sounds a bit impotent. That was my immediate reaction.

Our nukes are also over at Incilirk airbase in Turkey.

No they are not. That is a flat out blatant falsehood. Not sure where exactly you come up with some of this bullshit...but that’s one of the biggest whoppers you’ve told in quite awhile.

It’s like you just can’t help yourself.

You need to stop.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 11:24:21 PM
Well, you know... as time goes on... things change.   I repeat....

WTH?

@XenaLee

WTH is right. The only missiles the US has operated since we agreed to remove the offensive missiles during the Cuban Missile Crisis are the Patriot batteries at Gaziantep. And even then those were German missile batteries that were crewed by American soldiers. 

We don’t have nukes in Turkey.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 07, 2019, 11:49:02 PM
We don’t have nukes in Turkey. 

Quote
Weapons provided for nuclear sharing (2019)
 Belgium Kleine Brogel 20 B61 
 Germany Büchel 20 B61 
 Italy Aviano 40 B61 
 Italy Ghedi 40 B61 
 Netherlands Volkel 20 B61 
Turkey Incirlik 50 B61 

5 nations;  6 bases

Of the three nuclear powers in NATO (France, the United Kingdom and the United States), only the United States is known to have provided weapons for nuclear sharing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing)

Quote
Time to Pull US Nuclear Weapons Out of Turkey
Defense One, May 17, 2019

Storing nuclear weapons close to trouble is a bad idea, and giving Ankara a shared finger on the nuclear trigger is rapidly losing its charm.

Amid the recent self-congratulatory celebrations of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 70th anniversary, there was no mention one of its strangest policies: the nuclear sharing program that keeps American nuclear bombs in five NATO countries (Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Turkey) and trains host air forces to use them.

Thus at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, about 100 miles from the Syrian border, the United States stores some 20 to 80 B61 nuclear weapons for delivery by Turkish or American aircraft. There is not much comfort in knowing that these weapons are under direct American control in heavily guarded bunkers and are designed to be unusable without the proper codes. It is time to bring them home.

More:  https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/ (https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/) 

@txradioguy   @XenaLee
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 08, 2019, 12:54:58 AM
Sand and death-Trump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io0QgbSmOwE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io0QgbSmOwE)

Syrian Christians Palm Sunday this year

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Christians+in+Syria+2019&view=detail&mid=65E242A179E97C4C2DF865E242A179E97C4C2DF8&FORM=VIRE (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Christians+in+Syria+2019&view=detail&mid=65E242A179E97C4C2DF865E242A179E97C4C2DF8&FORM=VIRE)

Syrian Christian women soldiers.  Don't mess with them!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Syrian+Christian+women+fighting&&view=detail&mid=20D539DAC2C2E6A08D8920D539DAC2C2E6A08D89&&FORM=VRDGAR (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Syrian+Christian+women+fighting&&view=detail&mid=20D539DAC2C2E6A08D8920D539DAC2C2E6A08D89&&FORM=VRDGAR)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search? (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Syrian+Christian+women+fighting&&view=detail&mid=20D539DAC2C2E6A08D8920D539DAC2C2E6A08D89&&FORM=VRDGAR)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 08, 2019, 01:14:00 AM
Kurdish women fighters.  They sure don't look like terrorists to me.  I think that Erdogan is the terrorist.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kurdish+women+fighters+against+isis&FORM=HDRSC2 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kurdish+women+fighters+against+isis&FORM=HDRSC2)

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 08, 2019, 02:04:17 AM
October 7, 2019
U.S. Senator Ben Sasse, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, issued the following statement regarding the Administration’s announced retreat from the Syria-Turkey border.

“If the President sticks with this retreat, he needs to know that this bad decision will likely result in the slaughter of allies who fought with us, including women and children. I hope the President will listen to his generals and reconsider. And before Turkey butchers innocent Kurds, Erdogan should carefully consider his privileged status as a NATO member. The American people don’t partner with genocidal regimes.”

https://www.sasse.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2019/10/sasse-statement-on-u-s-retreat-from-syria (https://www.sasse.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2019/10/sasse-statement-on-u-s-retreat-from-syria)

Ted Cruz: ‘DISGRACEFUL’ to Let Turkish Military Slaughter America’s Kurdish Allies
By John McCormack
 
October 7, 2019 10:14 PM

“It would also be DISGRACEFUL if we sat idly by while Turkey slaughters the Kurds, as public reports suggest that Turkish leader Erdogan explicitly told President Trump he intends to do. Kurds risked their lives—for many years—to fight alongside us,” Texas Republican senator Ted Cruz wrote on Twitter. “Our enemies and rivals (Iran, Russia, etc.) don’t abandon their allies; if we want allies to stand with America in the future, we shouldn’t either. Honorable nations stand by their friends.”

Trump: “Kurds are great people, great fighters, I like them a lot. We are trying to help them a lot. Don’t forget that’s their territory.They fought with us, they died with us, we lost tens of thousands of Kurds fighting ISIS. They’re great people and we have not forgotten.”

816
8:38 PM - Sep 26, 2018 (See video at link)

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-syria-withdrawal-congressional-republicans-condemn-decision/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-syria-withdrawal-congressional-republicans-condemn-decision/)

I think Trump forgot since September 2018
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 04:50:10 AM
Just a reminder:  The Kurds have been fighting a war with Turkey for 41 years.  They're trying to annex Turkish territory for a Kurdistan of some sort or the other. Another clarification:  Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America  has it been to help America.  They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed.  For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure:  Money, weapons and training. 

Another reminder:  Turkey is a NATO member ... one who is hosting, as I type, 50 US nuclear weapons.  Like it or not, Turkey is our ally, not the Kurds.

For the do-gooders out there, if the US is to assist the Kurds with carving out a Kurdistan ... we'd need to directly fight at least one country.  I wish some neocon would choose one and explain how we keep Russia out of it.  Here are the potential battlefields--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey.  Choose one.

(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.ZXUiHF7C8Pl2k-dJ5OwcUAHaFo&pid=3.1&w=300&h=300&p=0)

Quote
Iraqi Kurdistan or Southern Kurdistan[1] (Kurdish: باشووری کوردستان‎, romanized: Başûrê Kurdistanê) is the Kurdish-populated region incorporated into Iraq and considered by Kurds as one of four parts of Greater Kurdistan.[2] Much of the geographical and cultural region of Iraqi Kurdistan is governed by the Kurdistan Region (KRI) (Kurdish: هه‌رێمی کوردستان‎, romanized: Herêmî Kurdistan) which is an autonomous region recognized by the Iraqi constitution.[3]

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/Ethnoreligious_Iraq.svg/310px-Ethnoreligious_Iraq.svg.png)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan)

Again, you state a falsehood, the Kurds are NOT in a battle with Iraq. They have their own autonomous region.

And your talk about carving out a part of Turkey, we are talking about Syria here, we are NOT talking about freaking Turkey, we are not aiding Kurdish rebellion in Turkey.

Quote
Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America  has it been to help America.  They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed.  For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure:  Money, weapons and training. 

And don't come out with "The Kurds have never helped us unless their interests dovetail with ours", the Kurds in no way, had to help us retake the ISIS capital of Syria and I assume you know what city that was.  But they did.

(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4101300.ece/alternates/s615/RAQQA-map.jpg)

Trump is seeming to contemplate the same idiotic decision that Obama made, hopefully he's walking it back.

No, for all of your bluster, the Kurds helped us, I"m sure they helped us plenty in Iraq,  fight insurgents as well.  That's probably why they are currently at peace with the ruling regime.

Prove the Kurds are fighting with the Iraqi government. If that is so, it shouldn't be hard to find proof.

Lastly, no Kurds, no defeat of ISIS in Syria, you seem to leave that part out. Trump claims he beat ISIS, to an extent, that's so and would not have without the Kurds.




Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 05:18:34 AM
@Right_in_Virginia

There's a total disconnect with what you are saying and what Trump has said himself about the Kurds per all this, "Neo-Con" and so on:

Quote
...“We do get along great with the Kurds, we’re trying to help them a lot,” Trump answered:

    Don’t forget, that’s their territory. We have to help them. I want to help them. They fought with us, They fought with us, they died. We lost tens of thousands of Kurds [who] died fighting ISIS. They died for us and with us. And for themselves, they died for themselves. But they’re great people, and we have not forget [sic].

https://newrepublic.com/article/155307/trump-withdraws-syria-america-screwing-kurds-yet

It's true to everyone on board,  some factions of the Kurds are fighting against Turkey and for independence there.

Actually, per demographic shifts in population, some studies say, the Kurds can eventually and not far into the future, the Turks in Turkey.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 08, 2019, 07:02:47 AM
Why the hell is Turkey in NATO?  This is actually a serious question @jpsb

Cold War, we needed bases in Turkey so we could threaten Russia on Russia's southern flank.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 08, 2019, 07:07:04 AM
Cold War, we needed bases in Turkey so we could threaten Russia on Russia's southern flank.

I realize that my memory is a bit fuzzy, but.... I seem to recall that Turkey was one of the nations that refused to allow the US to 'fly over' during the Iraqi invasion by Bush.   I'm no expert, but a nation that refuses such access is no damned ""ally"".   Allowing Turkey access to US nukes is about THE stupidest thing I've heard yet.  What Einstein made that call?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: thackney on October 08, 2019, 07:13:05 AM
I believe it was @thackney who once posted that the SOBs even had to import sand.

That was for sand blasting in Yemen.  Needed sand with sharp edges.  The local stuff was windblown to nearly round particles.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 08, 2019, 07:40:07 AM
Take your pick

https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Lindsey+Graham+Says+The+President+Is+Lying+About+ISIS&qpvt=Lindsey+Graham+says+the+president+is+lying+about+ISIS&FORM=EWRE (https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=Lindsey+Graham+Says+The+President+Is+Lying+About+ISIS&qpvt=Lindsey+Graham+says+the+president+is+lying+about+ISIS&FORM=EWRE)

President Trump jumped the shark by abandoning the Kurds. His support is evaporating. You do not abandon an
ally in the middle of a war.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 08, 2019, 07:46:53 AM
@XenaLee

We don’t have nukes in Turkey.

I don't know if they are still there, but we did have about 50 nukes in Turkey during the cold war. Rumor has it that
they were moved out last year (2018).
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mountaineer on October 08, 2019, 07:54:36 AM
Quote
Mike Lee    @SenMikeLee
Thank you, President Trump, for withdrawing U.S. military personnel from Syria.  Undeclared wars are as unconstitutional as they are inadvisable.  Those who disagree with this decision should ask Congress to declare war or otherwise authorize the use of military force.
12:43 AM · Oct 8, 2019


(Just tossing this out there, as one view of the situation.)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 08, 2019, 08:27:45 AM
Mike Lee    @SenMikeLee
Thank you, President Trump, for withdrawing U.S. military personnel from Syria.  Undeclared wars are as unconstitutional as they are inadvisable.  Those who disagree with this decision should ask Congress to declare war or otherwise authorize the use of military force.
12:43 AM · Oct 8, 2019

Right.

Two reasons to involve ourselves in the ME.

Oil.

Keep those stupid bastids from aligning themselves together enough to be a serious threat to Israel.





Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 08, 2019, 08:30:36 AM
Again, you state a falsehood, the Kurds are NOT in a battle with Iraq. They have their own autonomous region.

I said the Kurds are doing battle with Turkey @TomSea  The map shows how fragmented the Kurds are which adds to their difficulty forming a united and effective leadership and hinders their push for one Kurdistan. I asked which of the four countries neocons would be willing to fight to help the Kurds carve out enough territory to form one nation--- their supposedly goal.  I mean if they're serious about really helping the Kurds.

Quote
Trump is seeming to contemplate the same idiotic decision that Obama made, hopefully he's walking it back.

There's nothing "idiotic" about regional problems being solved regionally.  There's nothing idiotic about ending endless war.  We went to Syria for a 30 day engagement.  What's idiotic is still being there.  The President has always said if we go to war we fight to win and then leave.  It's now time for us to leave.

As for the Kurds, yes, they fought ISIS --- but our interests dovetailed. We helped them as much as they helped us.  Our mission is accomplished and we do not owe them our blood.   If Turkey is dumb enough to attempt to massacre the Kurds, that will be dealt with.   But if the Kurds continue to fight Turkey they can use the equipment and training we've provided to do it.  Our boots no longer belong on the ground.

Hopefully our policing days in the Middle Eastern region are coming to an end.   Anything else would be "idiotic". 

For too long many have accepted war as our natural and moral state.  It will take some time for them to adjust to a world order where American interests and national security needs dictate where we send our young to die --- and for how long. 





Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 08, 2019, 08:41:39 AM
I don't know if they are still there, but we did have about 50 nukes in Turkey during the cold war. Rumor has it that
they were moved out last year (2018). 

@jpsb

Quote
Weapons provided for nuclear sharing (2019)
 Belgium Kleine Brogel 20 B61 
 Germany Büchel 20 B61 
 Italy Aviano 40 B61 
 Italy Ghedi 40 B61 
 Netherlands Volkel 20 B61 
Turkey Incirlik 50 B61 

5 nations;  6 bases

Of the three nuclear powers in NATO (France, the United Kingdom and the United States), only the United States is known to have provided weapons for nuclear sharing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing)

Quote
Time to Pull US Nuclear Weapons Out of Turkey
Defense One, May 17, 2019

Storing nuclear weapons close to trouble is a bad idea, and giving Ankara a shared finger on the nuclear trigger is rapidly losing its charm.

Amid the recent self-congratulatory celebrations of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 70th anniversary, there was no mention one of its strangest policies: the nuclear sharing program that keeps American nuclear bombs in five NATO countries (Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Turkey) and trains host air forces to use them.

Thus at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, about 100 miles from the Syrian border, the United States stores some 20 to 80 B61 nuclear weapons for delivery by Turkish or American aircraft. There is not much comfort in knowing that these weapons are under direct American control in heavily guarded bunkers and are designed to be unusable without the proper codes. It is time to bring them home.

More:  https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/ (https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/)   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 08, 2019, 08:52:21 AM
Quote
Donald J. Trump
Verified account   @realDonaldTrump

The United States was supposed to be in Syria for 30 days, that was many years ago. We stayed and got deeper and deeper into battle with no aim in sight. When I arrived in Washington, ISIS was running rampant in the area. We quickly defeated 100% of the ISIS Caliphate,.....

...including capturing thousands of ISIS fighters, mostly from Europe. But Europe did not want them back, they said you keep them USA! I said “NO, we did you a great favor and now you want us to hold them in U.S. prisons at tremendous cost. They are yours for trials.” They.....

.....again said “NO,” thinking, as usual, that the U.S. is always the “sucker,” on NATO, on Trade, on everything. The Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so. They have been fighting Turkey for decades. I held off this fight for....

...almost 3 years, but it is time for us to get out of these ridiculous Endless Wars, many of them tribal, and bring our soldiers home. WE WILL FIGHT WHERE IT IS TO OUR BENEFIT, AND ONLY FIGHT TO WIN. Turkey, Europe, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Russia and the Kurds will now have to.....

...figure the situation out, and what they want to do with the captured ISIS fighters in their “neighborhood.” They all hate ISIS, have been enemies for years. We are 7000 miles away and will crush ISIS again if they come anywhere near us!

4:40 AM - 7 Oct 2019

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181172467676565505

@TomSea
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: kevindavis on October 08, 2019, 09:10:01 AM
The fact that Rand Paul likes this move give me another reason to hate this move.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 09:48:31 AM
@TomSea

Big deal. Anyone who keeps up with the news knows that.
Quote
There's nothing "idiotic" about regional problems being solved regionally.  There's nothing idiotic about ending endless war.  We went to Syria for a 30 day engagement.  What's idiotic is still being there.  The President has always said if we go to war we fight to win and then leave.  It's now time for us to leave.

Thank you President Obama, co-founder, if inadvertently of ISIS.

Quote
As for the Kurds, yes, they fought ISIS --- but our interests dovetailed. We helped them as much as they helped us.  Our mission is accomplished and we do not owe them our blood.

Thank you for restating your opinion.

I'll restate mine too, no, we don't need to do the same idiotic things that Obama nor Bush did.  I did not vote for Obama II. This is the same thing that gave rise to ISIS in the first place.

I thought Trump campaigned to defeat ISIS, the job is not finished.  So, "selective quoting" of what he said isn't helpful.

We expanded the size of the base in Iraq if he's so "isolationist".

We still sell weapons to the Saudis.

He threw out the Iran deal, if the Iranians do not negotiate, eventually force may be needed, so his non-interventionist talk is somewhat limited.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 09:54:52 AM
The fact that Rand Paul likes this move give me another reason to hate this move.

And you notice he was out there doing another victory lap yesterday too.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 09:56:22 AM


I'll restate mine too, no, we don't need to do the same idiotic things that Obama nor Bush did.

And yet here we are doing exactly what Obama did.  Screwing over an ally.

We're gonna really find ourselves alone in the world if we keep doing this to people who are willing to help us.

Pretty soon there won't be anyone out there left to help us at a time when we desperately need it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 09:57:25 AM

(Just tossing this out there, as one view of the situation.)

That's really disappointing coming from Senator Lee.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 08, 2019, 10:03:03 AM
Again, you state a falsehood, the Kurds are NOT in a battle with Iraq. They have their own autonomous region.

And your talk about carving out a part of Turkey, we are talking about Syria here, we are NOT talking about freaking Turkey, we are not aiding Kurdish rebellion in Turkey.

And don't come out with "The Kurds have never helped us unless their interests dovetail with ours", the Kurds in no way, had to help us retake the ISIS capital of Syria and I assume you know what city that was.  But they did.

(http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4101300.ece/alternates/s615/RAQQA-map.jpg)

Trump is seeming to contemplate the same idiotic decision that Obama made, hopefully he's walking it back.

No, for all of your bluster, the Kurds helped us, I"m sure they helped us plenty in Iraq,  fight insurgents as well.  That's probably why they are currently at peace with the ruling regime.

Prove the Kurds are fighting with the Iraqi government. If that is so, it shouldn't be hard to find proof.

Lastly, no Kurds, no defeat of ISIS in Syria, you seem to leave that part out. Trump claims he beat ISIS, to an extent, that's so and would not have without the Kurds.

And Trump said the same a year ago:


Trump: “Kurds are great people, great fighters, I like them a lot. We are trying to help them a lot. Don’t forget that’s their territory.They fought with us, they died with us, we lost tens of thousands of Kurds fighting ISIS. They’re great people and we have not forgotten.”

816
8:38 PM - Sep 26, 2018 (See video at link)

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-syria-withdrawal-congressional-republicans-condemn-decision/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-syria-withdrawal-congressional-republicans-condemn-decision/)

They fought with us he said.  It was the Kurds that sacrificed for @Right_in_Virginia to say Trump defeated ISIS in Syria.  It was their blood so based on her comment perhaps she shouldn't trot out that remark anymore.  Because winning depended on others sacrificing their families.  But ISIS is not 100% defeated and Lindsey Graham called the President out on it. 

President Trump says he is fulfilling campaign promises?  I don't think that he promised the people that he would do it by joining up with a dictator to take out our allies in Syria.  ISIS will be making a come back, count on it.  Not winning!  Not winning at all.  Being a president for dictatorships and the most oppressive evil countries.  What can be the purpose.?

A few months ago when Trump was telling his Cabinet that he was going to withdraw from Syria he referred to it as "sand and death".  He wants to make sure. 

Some say Trump is the antichrist.  I don't know about that but it appears he is paving the way.  He is making all the plays.  Pat Robertson says he is in danger of loosing his Heaven Mandate.  I don't think he ever had one.  But even the elect can be deceived.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 10:06:02 AM
And yet here we are doing exactly what Obama did.  Screwing over an ally.

We're gonna really find ourselves alone in the world if we keep doing this to people who are willing to help us.

Pretty soon there won't be anyone out there left to help us at a time when we desperately need it.

Just so we don't completely lose our heads over whats happening here - we're withdrawing ~1000 personnel from northern Syria, who've been there just over two years. Presumably material support will continue.

Just some perspective.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 10:09:32 AM
I realize that my memory is a bit fuzzy, but.... I seem to recall that Turkey was one of the nations that refused to allow the US to 'fly over' during the Iraqi invasion by Bush.   I'm no expert, but a nation that refuses such access is no damned ""ally"".

@XenaLee

They aren't an ally.  And in the past they have repeatedly denied the U.S. use of Incirlik for offensice military purposes.  The 4th Infantry Division of which I'm a curent member...was suppsoed to land the division at a port in Turkey and roll into Iraq from the north. And until the civil war in Syria broke out there was talk of dropping them form NATO because they'd become so hostile to the other partner nations. 

Turkey...an (alleged) NATO ally...denied us use of their ports do offload the division.

But they sure were fast to invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter (Collective defence...an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.) when Syria bombed refugee camps inside Turkey.

Over the last 5 years they have physically harassed U.S. sailors during Liberty when their ship was in port...and as of 2016 family members of the U.S. military there had to evacuate to Germany because the situation had grown so tense.  Turkey will not more than likely become an unaccompanied tour for those assigned there.

In addition to that Erdogan has been funneling oil via his pipelines to help ISIS market oil.


ANd here we go just backing out of the way....screwing over a very loyal ally in the region to let Turkey bomb the shit out of them.


Quote
Allowing Turkey access to US nukes is about THE stupidest thing I've heard yet.  What Einstein made that call?

Those are NATO shared nukes.  Blame Brussels.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 10:11:27 AM
Just so we don't completely lose our heads over whats happening here - we're withdrawing ~1000 personnel from northern Syria, who've been there just over two years. Presumably material support will continue.

Just some perspective.

Here's some more perspective...those soldiers have been there for quite awhile and Turkey hadn't once made an aggressive move that I recall agaisnt the Kurds.

Trump decides to retreat and within 4-5 hours Turkey is launching attacks.

Just some perspective.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 08, 2019, 10:12:46 AM
And you notice he was out there doing another victory lap yesterday too.

Its not surprising.  He is anti war.  People like him would have had Hitler take over Europe.  They don't believe in righteous war.  A war to protect people from evil.  So ISIS is definitely a righteous cause for the U.S military.  While also keeping us safe from them on our own ground.  But stopping genocide and ethnic cleansing has always been a right cause.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.” ― Edmund Burke

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 10:13:26 AM
Kinda,

It sounds like we have walked back some of the talk.

Quote
Trump Administration Appears to Reverse Syria Decision Following Backlash
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2019-10-07/trump-administration-appears-to-reverse-syria-decision-following-backlash (https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2019-10-07/trump-administration-appears-to-reverse-syria-decision-following-backlash)

So, others can judge this or can provide their perspective or expertise to this. I certainly don't have the latter.

It's a difficult call. Turkey is an ally, we could end up in a situation where they are firing at us for all I know.

Turkey has legitimate concerns about some factions of the Kurds,  Kurdish guerillas have planted IEDs in Turkey, attacked police stations and things like that, traffic checks and road blocks, no one should deny this. PKK can scurry across the border for attacks and some press such as this "Syria Call" posts some stories that are definitely not positive about the Kurds.

Turkey has accepted over 3 million Syrian refugees, nobody wants to sugarcoat what is going on and Turkey appears to have legitimate concerns.  There are a number of concerned sources, more like drama queens saying "turkey will commit ethnic cleansing" and thing slike that. We do need to see what will and can happen.

And again, Trump ran as a "non-interventionist" isolationist type; but that is by far, a done deal, when he has tossed out the JCPOA (Iranian Nuke Deal),  if you've done that, again, force may be needed at some point.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 08, 2019, 10:15:03 AM
Here's some more perspective...those soldiers have been there for quite awhile and Turkey hadn't once made an aggressive move that I recall agaisnt the Kurds.

Trump decides to retreat and within 4-5 hours Turkey is launching attacks.

Just some perspective.

He negotiated it that way with his friend.  He called the extremist dictator friend at the U.N.  Has nothing to do with campaign promise.  That would be a withdrawal not a military operation by Turkey to cleanse the land of Kurds.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 08, 2019, 10:19:35 AM
Kinda,

It sounds like we have walked back some of the talk.

So, others can judge this or can provide their perspective or expertise to this. I certainly don't have the latter.

It's a difficult call. Turkey is an ally, we could end up in a situation where they are firing at us for all I know.

Turkey has legitimate concerns about some factions of the Kurds,  Kurdish guerillas have planted IEDs in Turkey, attacked police stations and things like that, traffic checks and road blocks, no one should deny this. PKK can scurry across the border for attacks and some press such as this "Syria Call" posts some stories that are definitely not positive about the Kurds.

Turkey has accepted over 3 million Syrian refugees, nobody wants to sugarcoat what is going on and Turkey appears to have legitimate concerns.  There are a number of concerned sources, more like drama queens saying "turkey will commit ethnic cleansing" and thing slike that. We do need to see what will and can happen.

And again, Trump ran as a "non-interventionist" isolationist type; but that is by far, a done deal, when he has tossed out the JCPOA (Iranian Nuke Deal),  if you've done that, again, force may be needed at some point.

We should be increasing military aid to the Kurds.  Fight alongside them.  Otherwise we are helping Turkey, Iran and Russia to do as they will with the Middle East.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 10:20:53 AM
Its not surprising.  He is anti war.  People like him would have had Hitler take over Europe.  They don't believe in righteous war.  A war to protect people from evil.  So ISIS is definitely a righteous cause for the U.S military.  While also keeping us safe from them on our own ground.  But stopping genocide and ethnic cleansing has always been a right cause.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” ― Edmund Burke “Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.” ― Edmund Burke

The fact that Trump is doing this...talking and sounding more and more like his new foreign policy advisor Rand Paul clarifies why people like Mattis and Bolton are no longer in the Administration.

And Rand Paul can go out there and grin and talk about "endless wars" and sound just as nutty as his old man...but this isn't about endless wars...it's about a cohearant foreign policy...it's about not abandoning allies.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 10:22:14 AM
We should be increasing military aid to the Kurds.  Fight alongside them.  Otherwise we are helping Turkey, Iran and Russia to do as they will with the Middle East.

Right now we're repeating the mistakes of the Obama administration...whether by accident or on purpose.  IF it keeps up...we won't have one friend in the region.

And other countries in other regions are wathching what we're doing here you can bet on that.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 10:33:21 AM
Here's some more perspective...those soldiers have been there for quite awhile and Turkey hadn't once made an aggressive move that I recall agaisnt the Kurds.

Trump decides to retreat and within 4-5 hours Turkey is launching attacks.

Just some perspective.

By all means, continue your arm waving.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 10:36:51 AM
By all means, continue your arm waving.

Translation: "I've got nothing to rebut that so I'll just throw out some nonsense as a reply."
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 10:39:24 AM
I don't know if they are still there, but we did have about 50 nukes in Turkey during the cold war. Rumor has it that
they were moved out last year (2018).

They are what's knows as "shared" nukes.  Several NATO countries share them as I understand it.

Same kind of situation with the ones we have stored at Luftwaffe bases in Germany.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 10:46:12 AM
Translation: "I've got nothing to rebut that so I'll just throw out some nonsense as a reply."

My rebuttal is logical but you will not accept it so why bother? I do not believe we can fix the centuries old problem between the Kurds and the Turks and whomever else. Every other time we've intervened militarily in the ME we've failed to really improve anything, if our involvement hasn't actually made things worse. I am tired of wars with no congressional buy-in. I do not want to see another open-ended, indefinite military occupation.

But as I said, carry on.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 10:56:36 AM
My rebuttal is logical but you will not accept it so why bother? I do not believe we can fix the centuries old problem between the Kurds and the Turks and whomever else. Every other time we've intervened militarily in the ME we've failed to really improve anything, if our involvement hasn't actually made things worse. I am tired of wars with no congressional buy-in. I do not want to see another open-ended, indefinite military occupation.

No one here or in DC is talking about that.  No one is trying to fix the centuries old problems or engage in an endless war. 

I've been reading replies from Rand Paul suppporters on social media and hearing it on talk radio yesterday by numerous callers so I see you've got the same talking points because they are saying almsot verbatim what you just said above.  It's all fortune cookie bumpersticker crap.

This isn't about intervention...endless war or centires old conflicts.  They've been critical in the fight against ISIS and now we're just gonna say "see ya you're on your own".

This is simply about do we or do we not abandon an ally.

How are we ever going to get anyone to trust us if we continue to do that to people that have bled and died along side us on the field of battle.  How is it soild stratigic foreign policy to cut and run whenever we feel like it or it's not politically expedient for us to be engaged?

It's not. 

Quote
But as I said, carry on.

I will because your radical Libertarian isolationist pablum is dangerous to our country.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 10:57:46 AM
No one here or in DC is talkign about that.  No one is trying to fix the centuries old problems or engage in an endless war. 

I've been reading replies from Rand Paul suppporters on social media and hearing it on talk radio yesterday by numerous callers so I see you've got the same talking points because they are saying almsot verbatim what you just said above.  It's all fortune cookie bumpersticker crap.

This isn't about intervention...endless war or centires old conflicts.  They've been critical in the fight against ISIS and now we're just gonna say "see ya you're on your own".

This is simply about do we or do we not abandon an ally.

How are we ever going to get anyone to trust us if we continue to do that to people that have bled and died along side us on the field of battle.  How is it soild stratigic foreign policy to cut and run whenever we feel like it or it's not politically expedient for us to be engaged?

It's not. 


Thanks for your contradictory non-answer.

All you did was try to characterize my reply. Thats why its not worth the effort.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 11:00:02 AM
Well, at this point and what I was reading Sen. Rubio tweeted this morning:
Quote
Marco Rubio
@marcorubio
#Syria isn’t about neocons or hawks,it’s about reality.

The Kurds were lead ground force against ISIS & currently hold 1000’s of ISIS killers in jail. Abandoning them is morally repugnant,stains our nations reputation & could lead to 1000’s of ISIS killers back on battlefield.
8:17 AM · Oct 8, 2019·Twitter for iPad

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1181559355256295424

So, we do have the 'prisoners' issue...I think most people could admit, whether they like it or not, that it is important to keep these prisoners behind bars.

I guess, there is an "aftermath" for war, lacking a better term, we are still in Germany but that war ended 74 years ago.

So, I get the "end endless wars" bit, it's a good soundbyte, I'm not criticizing anyone who says that.  We need to leave... leave at the right time, we certainly don't have many troops there and at this time, they are keeping peace.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 11:09:29 AM
Quote
Trump: Writing Letters to Parents of Fallen Soldiers is 'Hardest Thing I Have to Do' President opens up about the difficult process following death of troops

READ MORE: https://neonnettle.com/news/9036-trump-writing-letters-to-parents-of-fallen-soldiers-is-hardest-thing-i-have-to-do-
© Neon Nettle

Probably so...I think the initial message of what we are doing in Syria got, intentionally or not, a lot of people upset at how it came off. I think, if one wanted to avoid all of this, it should have been put differently.

As it is, almost nobody understands as to what it means and what is happening. It probably was made with some positive intent.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 11:39:07 AM
Thanks for your contradictory non-answer.

All you did was try to characterize my reply. Thats why its not worth the effort.

If that's what you want to call it *shrug*...ok.

I rebutted your talking points and showed where your non-interventionist and isolationst beliefs are dangers and hurt our allies.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 11:40:00 AM
Probably so...I think the initial message of what we are doing in Syria got, intentionally or not, a lot of people upset at how it came off. I think, if one wanted to avoid all of this, it should have been put differently.

As it is, almost nobody understands as to what it means and what is happening. It probably was made with some positive intent.

What does this have to do with the topic?

Oh yeah that's right....
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 08, 2019, 11:52:20 AM
@XenaLee

They aren't an ally.  And in the past they have repeatedly denied the U.S. use of Incirlik for offensice military purposes.  The 4th Infantry Division of which I'm a curent member...was suppsoed to land the division at a port in Turkey and roll into Iraq from the north. And until the civil war in Syria broke out there was talk of dropping them form NATO because they'd become so hostile to the other partner nations. 

Turkey...an (alleged) NATO ally...denied us use of their ports do offload the division.

But they sure were fast to invoke Article 5 of the NATO charter (Collective defence...an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.) when Syria bombed refugee camps inside Turkey.

Over the last 5 years they have physically harassed U.S. sailors during Liberty when their ship was in port...and as of 2016 family members of the U.S. military there had to evacuate to Germany because the situation had grown so tense.  Turkey will not more than likely become an unaccompanied tour for those assigned there.

In addition to that Erdogan has been funneling oil via his pipelines to help ISIS market oil.


ANd here we go just backing out of the way....screwing over a very loyal ally in the region to let Turkey bomb the shit out of them.


Those are NATO shared nukes.  Blame Brussels.

Let me guess.  In other words... blame Obama = Soros?

If so, that figures.   The evil Einstein behind most of the disastrous-for-America decisions and actions for the past decade plus.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 11:57:25 AM
Let me guess.  In other words... blame Obama = Soros?

If so, that figures.   The evil Einstein behind most of the disastrous-for-America decisions and actions for the past decade plus.

To a certain point yes.  But Trump owns the U.S. foreign policy now and if he makes the same mistakes that Obama did...then it's his fault not Obama's.

The politicians in NATO and to some extent some of their Generals are captives of PC and their own Progressive governments.  I'll give Trump credit he has cajoled most of them into finally living up to their 2% of GDP pledge for defense. 

But as far as doing anything outside of their own borders...not many of them will do it.  Certainly not those countries that have recieved the most "refugees" as of late.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 12:02:28 PM
If that's what you want to call it *shrug*...ok.

I rebutted your talking points and showed where your non-interventionist and isolationst beliefs are dangers and hurt our allies.

No. You responded to simple reason with what you call 'bumper sticker' slogans.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 08, 2019, 12:02:53 PM
I must admit... I am conflicted about this issue.   While I do want our guys brought home (nobody ever said they were supposed to stay in Syria forever).... I can see the critical issue of ISIS prisoners being allowed to be set free (by Turkish factions) as a deal breaker.   Why the hell can't the US arrange a prisoner transfer to Gitmo?   That would solve the main problem with pulling out.  Am I missing something? 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
I must admit... I am conflicted about this issue.   While I do want our guys brought home (nobody ever said they were supposed to stay in Syria forever).... I can see the critical issue of ISIS prisoners being allowed to be set free (by Turkish factions) as a deal breaker.   Why the hell can't the US arrange a prisoner transfer to Gitmo?   That would solve the main problem with pulling out.  Am I missing something?
I don't want to have to be buying these guys Fruitloops until some rat judge orders them released here under the US asylum policy. Why not let the Kurds deal with them old school. It'd be good therapy for em.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 08, 2019, 12:08:00 PM
I don't want to have to be buying these guys Fruitloops until some rat judge orders them released here under the US asylum policy. Why not let the Kurds deal with them old school. It'd be good therapy for em.

Because under the Kurds', they may end up being released if or when Turkish factions attack the Kurds.  I thought that point was already made upthread.    :shrug:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 08, 2019, 12:16:19 PM
Just so we don't completely lose our heads over whats happening here - we're withdrawing ~1000 personnel from northern Syria, who've been there just over two years. Presumably material support will continue.

Just some perspective.

But it's the KURDS!!   9999hair out0000
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: kevindavis on October 08, 2019, 12:19:28 PM
No one here or in DC is talking about that.  No one is trying to fix the centuries old problems or engage in an endless war. 

I've been reading replies from Rand Paul suppporters on social media and hearing it on talk radio yesterday by numerous callers so I see you've got the same talking points because they are saying almsot verbatim what you just said above.  It's all fortune cookie bumpersticker crap.

This isn't about intervention...endless war or centires old conflicts.  They've been critical in the fight against ISIS and now we're just gonna say "see ya you're on your own".

This is simply about do we or do we not abandon an ally.

How are we ever going to get anyone to trust us if we continue to do that to people that have bled and died along side us on the field of battle.  How is it soild stratigic foreign policy to cut and run whenever we feel like it or it's not politically expedient for us to be engaged?

It's not. 

I will because your radical Libertarian isolationist pablum is dangerous to our country.


The last time we listened to Isolationists was in the 1930's. Looked how well it worked out.  The problem with the Libertarian Isolationists is that the following:


1. They think the oceans will protect us from dangers. Nope not anymore.. We where close to being bombed by the Germans in WWII (Yes the Nazi's was almost came close to developing an America bomber).


2. Fortress America is better. Nope. Not gonna work.



Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 12:21:51 PM
I must admit... I am conflicted about this issue.   While I do want our guys brought home (nobody ever said they were supposed to stay in Syria forever).... I can see the critical issue of ISIS prisoners being allowed to be set free (by Turkish factions) as a deal breaker.   Why the hell can't the US arrange a prisoner transfer to Gitmo?   That would solve the main problem with pulling out.  Am I missing something?

But, keeping up with this, I believe there are actually 5,000 such prisoners, that's just male prisoners. The logistics are not there.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-suspects-in-overcrowded-syria-prison-tell-cbs-news-theyre-american-sdf-says-needs-help-2019-09-17/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-suspects-in-overcrowded-syria-prison-tell-cbs-news-theyre-american-sdf-says-needs-help-2019-09-17/)

To me, that's way to many to put in Gitmo or even other arrangements. The Kurds/SDF have said,  previously, when it didn't appear we were going to cut bait and run, that they would hold them and let them do their time for justice.

BTW, that we are withdrawing and things like that, I consider that to be far from calling this a fact. In a way, it seems no, we are not. A bit of confusion on this issue.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: kevindavis on October 08, 2019, 12:23:33 PM
And you notice he was out there doing another victory lap yesterday too.


Yes he was..
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 12:29:09 PM

The last time we listened to Isolationists was in the 1930's. Looked how well it worked out.  The problem with the Libertarian Isolationists is that the following:


1. They think the oceans will protect us from dangers. Nope not anymore.. We where close to being bombed by the Germans in WWII (Yes the Nazi's was almost came close to developing an America bomber).


2. Fortress America is better. Nope. Not gonna work.

There is a significant difference between a 'libertarian isolationist' and those who refuse to risk American lives except in pursuit of America's immediate interests.

No one here is saying we shouldn't involve ourselves in other ways in service of our general interests or where there's a clear moral imperative.

Personally I'm tired of the globalists leading Americans around by the nose.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 12:31:17 PM
Because under the Kurds', they may end up being released if or when Turkish factions attack the Kurds.  I thought that point was already made upthread.    :shrug:

Yeah, well the thread is 9 pages long.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: aligncare on October 08, 2019, 12:33:42 PM
There is a significant difference between a 'libertarian isolationist' and those who refuse to risk American lives except in pursuit of America's immediate interests.

No one here is saying we shouldn't involve ourselves in other ways in service of our general interests or where there's a clear moral imperative.

Personally I'm tired of the globalists leading Americans around by the nose.

Yeah, but isolationist seems so much sexier, don’t you think? Rhetorical question.  :cool:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 12:36:43 PM
There is a significant difference between a 'libertarian isolationist' and those who refuse to risk American lives except in pursuit of America's immediate interests.

No one here is saying we shouldn't involve ourselves in other ways in service of our general interests or where there's a clear moral imperative.

Personally I'm tired of the globalists leading Americans around by the nose.

This makes sense.

Now, one can dispute this, that's fine.

I think there is the possibility of the Kurds/others cutting a deal with Assad and RUSSIA because they have no other options. I think Assad probably is more responsible than anyone else for all the trouble there, probably overwhelmingly so.

<a  href="https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister"> Charles Lister [/url] probably believes so.

So, this isn't a good option and as of now, our troops are not in real danger there...

A lesson for all, we were there last December, Trump called for this "withdrawal", within days, a cafe was suicide bombed or bombed, we lost at least 2 soldiers and a translator who was American. The terrorists really did this it looks like, in response to Trump's announcement. That's probably why this time,  in part, the announcement was done differently.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 08, 2019, 12:56:44 PM
This makes sense.

Now, one can dispute this, that's fine.

I think there is the possibility of the Kurds/others cutting a deal with Assad and RUSSIA because they have no other options. I think Assad probably is more responsible than anyone else for all the trouble there, probably overwhelmingly so.

<a  href="https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister"> Charles Lister [/url] probably believes so.

So, this isn't a good option and as of now, our troops are not in real danger there...

A lesson for all, we were there last December, Trump called for this "withdrawal", within days, a cafe was suicide bombed or bombed, we lost at least 2 soldiers and a translator who was American. The terrorists really did this it looks like, in response to Trump's announcement. That's probably why this time,  in part, the announcement was done differently.

All this aside, your attempt to interject a moderate tone into the debate here is appreciated.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 01:00:05 PM
I don't want to have to be buying these guys Fruitloops until some rat judge orders them released here under the US asylum policy. Why not let the Kurds deal with them old school. It'd be good therapy for em.

Because the Kurds are about to be blasted to oblivion in that region and won't beable to do that because Trump retreated and left them open to attack from Turkey.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 08, 2019, 01:02:10 PM

The last time we listened to Isolationists was in the 1930's. Looked how well it worked out.  The problem with the Libertarian Isolationists is that the following:


1. They think the oceans will protect us from dangers. Nope not anymore.. We where close to being bombed by the Germans in WWII (Yes the Nazi's was almost came close to developing an America bomber).


2. Fortress America is better. Nope. Not gonna work.

Asbolutely correct.

You would think that 9/11 would have taught them this hard lesson.  But clearly it hasn't.  And they also seem hell bent on repeating the miscues of HW Bush and Obama when it comes to abandoning an ally.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 08, 2019, 01:05:47 PM
But, keeping up with this, I believe there are actually 5,000 such prisoners, that's just male prisoners. The logistics are not there.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-suspects-in-overcrowded-syria-prison-tell-cbs-news-theyre-american-sdf-says-needs-help-2019-09-17/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-suspects-in-overcrowded-syria-prison-tell-cbs-news-theyre-american-sdf-says-needs-help-2019-09-17/)

To me, that's way to many to put in Gitmo or even other arrangements. The Kurds/SDF have said,  previously, when it didn't appear we were going to cut bait and run, that they would hold them and let them do their time for justice.

BTW, that we are withdrawing and things like that, I consider that to be far from calling this a fact. In a way, it seems no, we are not. A bit of confusion on this issue.

Eh... yeah.   Now I'm good & confused.   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 08, 2019, 01:08:31 PM
Because the Kurds are about to be blasted to oblivion in that region and won't be able to do that because Trump retreated and left them open to attack from Turkey.

Ok... off the cuff here....but if that's true, why couldn't the Kurds "wire" the holding area to blow if or when that area is attacked by the Turks....and make damned sure that the Turks know?   Sounds harsh?   ISIS is the very definition of harsh.   Better to eliminate the terrorists than risk letting them go.   Just sayin....
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 08, 2019, 01:10:40 PM
Quote
(https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/file/getimagecustom/1115f7e2-ed69-4242-ae87-6a58ca6afc6e/850/479)
Top Senate Republican warns 'precipitous' Syria pullout benefits Russia, Iran
The New Arab & agencies

The top Republican in Congress warned that an abrupt pullback of US troops from Turkey's border with Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran and President Bashar al-Assad's government in Damascus.

The top Republican in Congress warned Monday that an abrupt pullback of US troops from Turkey's border with Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran and President Bashar al-Assad's government in Damascus.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell became the most senior lawmaker in Donald Trump's party to oppose the president's announced decision to withdraw from certain positions in northern Syria, one that effectively abandons the Kurds, one of Washington's main allies in the war against Islamic State group militants.

Read more at: https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/10/8/top-republican-warns-precipitous-syria-pullout-benefits-russia-iran (https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/10/8/top-republican-warns-precipitous-syria-pullout-benefits-russia-iran)

And, I get it, there should be a limit as to what we do, understood. One thousand troops, that's not that big.  We also don't want these guys above to benefit. We don't want our so-called "allies" to be pushed into their corner, okay, it won't be Erdogan but it could be these others.

McConnell said the Senate has a super-majority of those who want to stay, beyond sanctions, I'm not so sure what they could do. Could they authorize troops to stay or go there? Maybe something like this.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 08, 2019, 01:13:50 PM
Graham vows 'sanctions from hell' if Turkey moves into Syria
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/464847-graham-vows-sanctions-from-hell-if-turkey-moves-into-syria
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 08, 2019, 06:18:27 PM
But it's the KURDS!!   9999hair out0000

 :silly:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 09, 2019, 10:23:18 AM
Kurds now organizing civilian defense.  Is there any help for them?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-orders-turkish-offensive-against-northern-syria-as-kurds-mobilize-civilian-defense/ar-AAIuVqO?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-orders-turkish-offensive-against-northern-syria-as-kurds-mobilize-civilian-defense/ar-AAIuVqO?ocid=spartanntp)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:27:26 AM
Kurds now organizing civilian defense.  Is there any help for them?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-orders-turkish-offensive-against-northern-syria-as-kurds-mobilize-civilian-defense/ar-AAIuVqO?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-orders-turkish-offensive-against-northern-syria-as-kurds-mobilize-civilian-defense/ar-AAIuVqO?ocid=spartanntp)

@Chosen Daughter

Not from us.  And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.

Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back?  It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.

Wonder why that is?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 10:28:23 AM
@Chosen Daughter

Not from us.  And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.

Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back?  It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.

Wonder why that is?

Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 09, 2019, 10:35:37 AM
@Chosen Daughter

Not from us.  And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.

Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back?  It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.

Wonder why that is?


I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience.  Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 10:36:58 AM
Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?

And, what was our mission in Syria?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 09, 2019, 10:38:41 AM
Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?

Of the ~1000 currently in Syria I've heard the figure being pulled back from the region is from 100 to 150 personnel.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:40:32 AM
Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?

Our troops that were up there?  Roughly a battalion's worth...1000 or so.  Mainly Special Forces with conbat sustainment and support from regular army units.

Doesn't sond like much...bu for the last 2-3 years it's prevented Turkey from doing exactly what it's doing right now.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:41:12 AM
And, what was our mission in Syria?

Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:41:48 AM
I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience.  Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.

I agree.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 10:42:30 AM
Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.

I don't think that's accurate.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:45:11 AM
I don't think that's accurate.

It is.

Quote
The American-led intervention in the Syrian Civil War refers to the United States-led support of Syrian opposition and the Federation of Northern Syria during the course of the Syrian Civil War and active military involvement led by the United States and its allies — the militaries of the United Kingdom, France, Jordan, Turkey, Canada, Australia and more — against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and al-Nusra Front since 2014. Since early 2017, the U.S. and other Coalition partners have also targeted the Syrian government and its allies via airstrikes and aircraft shoot-downs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 10:48:12 AM
It is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

From that article:

Quote
During the Syrian Civil War, which began in 2011, the U.S. initially supplied the rebels of the Free Syrian Army with non-lethal aid—including food rations and pickup trucks—but quickly began providing training, money, and intelligence to selected Syrian rebel commanders. At least two U.S. programs attempted to assist the Syrian rebels. One was a 2014 Pentagon program that planned to train and equip 15,000 rebels to fight ISIL, which was canceled in 2015 after spending $500 million and producing only a few dozen fighters.[135] A simultaneous $1 billion covert program called Timber Sycamore ran by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) was more successful, but was decimated by Russian bombing and canceled in mid-2017 by the Trump administration.[135]
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:53:19 AM
From that article:

Obama's bungling foreign policy has us sending weapons and munitions to what they thought were rebel fighters...that turned out to be the Taliban.

Everything the Obama administration touched turned to shit over there and was one disaster after another.

Up until Rand Paul became Trump's BFF...the situation had gotten turned around and headed in the righ direction.  Remember when everyone was rah-rahing the military strikes Trump was odering over there?  I do.

Same people now who are cheering his retreat and abandonment of the Kurds.

Like with the previous adminstration...we're about to snatch defeat from the jaws of an albeit small victory in that region.  And people are happy about it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 09, 2019, 10:58:20 AM
I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience.  Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.

I wouldn't bet on it.  I think it was a calculated decision by the President.  Its shameful.  The entire world knows that President Trump called Syria sand and death.  He has been grooming this operation for some time.  Making friends with Erdogan.  Thinking of lifting sanctions on Iran.  Firing Bolton.

Yes, its his decision.  And he is saying its a campaign promise.  Well the promise wasn't to help Turkey wipe out our allies.  He negotiated it with Erdogan. 

Trump and John Bolton sparred over lifting Iran sanctions
The national security adviser departed abruptly after President Trump suggested he might lift some sanctions as an incentive for Tehran to get to the negotiating table.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-john-bolton-argued-over-iran-sanctions-n1054481 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-john-bolton-argued-over-iran-sanctions-n1054481)

And what a show he put on at the UN.  Friend of Christian persecutor.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 11:26:42 AM
Obama's bungling foreign policy has us sending weapons and munitions to what they thought were rebel fighters...that turned out to be the Taliban.

Everything the Obama administration touched turned to shit over there and was one disaster after another.

Up until Rand Paul became Trump's BFF...the situation had gotten turned around and headed in the righ direction.  Remember when everyone was rah-rahing the military strikes Trump was odering over there?  I do.

Same people now who are cheering his retreat and abandonment of the Kurds.

Like with the previous adminstration...we're about to snatch defeat from the jaws of an albeit small victory in that region.  And people are happy about it.

I understand your point of view, and I disagree with it.  The best approximation of a mission over there was to fight ISIS and help the Syrian rebels.  Both have been done*.  Time to get out.

* I understand that ISIS is not 100% defeated, nor will it ever be.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Absalom on October 09, 2019, 12:34:10 PM
And on and on and on.................
Coupla reflections on the Middle East.
There have been no virtuous societies throughout the ME since the dawn of militant Islam, some 14 centuries past; rather assorted tribes looking for advantage, like the Kurds.
During the Great War in 1915, the schizophrenic Ottomans decided to rid themselves of
their Armenian Christian minority by recruiting the Kurds who organized the caravans,
herded the Armenians, driving them into the Deserts of Anatolia, cutting off any escape routes and let 1.5 million men, women and children starve to death. REALITY!
So much for the poor Kurds.
The Turks had a chance to escape their dark Ottoman past w/the accession of their hero
at Gallipoli, Mustafa Kemal, as President post WW 1, but w/his passing in 1938 that
window closed and Turkey has reverted to its neurotic history.
Similarly, the Persians, now Iran had an opportunity to develop and prosper w/the
accession of Reza Shah Pahlavi after the War but that also disappeared as Jackass Carter
aided/abetted the overthrow of his son; ushering in the fanatical Mullahs who presently
rule that land.
There are first world as well as third world cultures/societies and then there is the
Middle East, a cauldron of fanatical ideology masquerading as a religion, repression
and violence.
We have no need of the latter, as it offers us nothing; staying as far away as possible. 

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: ExFreeper on October 09, 2019, 12:45:33 PM
Before the civil war between the neocons and the isolationist starts, please understand what is really going on before jumping to an uninformed opinion and making a fool of themselves.   My question is where are the 10,000 ISIS prisoners and who is responsible for guarding them?

Quote
...he’s moving just 50 US service members out of northern Syria to get of the way of a just-started Turkish invasion.

Quote
It’s worth noting that the US had 2,000 troops in Syria back in December and then Trump had the Pentagon cut that force in half in March. That’s definitely scaling back US involvement, but it’s still a far cry from ending any US role in the Middle East — and, again, it’s not what’s happening this week.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/10/9/20906227/trump-turkey-invades-syria-middle-east-tweet (https://www.vox.com/world/2019/10/9/20906227/trump-turkey-invades-syria-middle-east-tweet)

Another source:

Quote

A senior administration official told reporters Monday that Sunday’s announcement did not constitute a full U.S. withdrawal from Syria and that only 50 to 100 U.S. special operations forces were moving to other locations in Syria.

The official explained that Trump’s decision to move the special operators out of the zone of a potential Turkish operation was done to protect troops and keep them out of the crossfire.

Those troops are moving to more secure areas over the next several days, the official said.

“The Department of Defense made clear to Turkey — as did the president — that we do not endorse a Turkish operation in Northern Syria," Jonathan Hoffman, the chief Pentagon spokesman said. “The U.S. armed forces will not support, or be involved in any such operation.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/10/07/how-the-us-troop-withdrawal-from-northern-syria-could-create-an-isis-resurgence/ (https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/10/07/how-the-us-troop-withdrawal-from-northern-syria-could-create-an-isis-resurgence/)

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 12:50:36 PM
I understand your point of view, and I disagree with it.  The best approximation of a mission over there was to fight ISIS and help the Syrian rebels.  Both have been done*.  Time to get out.

* I understand that ISIS is not 100% defeated, nor will it ever be.

Look...just so we're clear...I'm not a warmonger...not anywhere clsoe to it...the last people that want war is a soldier.

That being said...and like I've said before this goes beyond all of the endless war...world police crap taht's getting spewed out there.  This is about honor and a code and keeping our word.

We gave our word to the Kurds we'd have their back and they had ours fighting the good fight against terrorism.  And for us to pull back out of the blue isn't honorable and it makes us look like liars.

If we can't give someone our word and stand by it...what good are we as a nation?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
Quote
...he’s moving just 50 US service members out of northern Syria to get of the way of a just-started Turkish invasion.

@ExFreeper first off...the soldiers were told to pull back...THEN the invasion started.  Turkey hadn't made a move in several years in that area.  They only did it becasue Trump retreated.

Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets.  50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet.  They are a "force multiplier".  Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.

So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.

Our retreat paved the way for what Turkey is about to do to the Kurds.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 01:05:09 PM
Look...just so we're clear...I'm not a warmonger...not anywhere clsoe to it...the last people that want war is a soldier.

That being said...and like I've said before this goes beyond all of the endless war...world police crap taht's getting spewed out there.  This is about honor and a code and keeping our word.

We gave our word to the Kurds we'd have their back and they had ours fighting the good fight against terrorism.  And for us to pull back out of the blue isn't honorable and it makes us look like liars.

If we can't give someone our word and stand by it...what good are we as a nation?

And, as you know, I'm no peacenik.  If we gave our word to defend the Syrian Kurds from now on out, we shouldn't have.  It's not our fight.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 01:07:12 PM
And, as you know, I'm no peacenik.  If we gave our word to defend the Syrian Kurds from now on out, we shouldn't have.  It's not our fight.

If not us then who?  If not now...when?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 01:15:00 PM
If not us then who?  If not now...when?

That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support.  We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.

Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes.  That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 09, 2019, 01:19:15 PM
That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support.  We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.

Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes.  That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.

These people never played MONOPOLY as kids....and it shows.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on October 09, 2019, 01:30:17 PM
Can we just support the Kurds by proxy by sending them arms and intelligence and stuff?

Seems like there's room for a compromise here.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 09, 2019, 01:39:19 PM
Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets.  50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet.  They are a "force multiplier".  Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.

So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.


Yes, similar to the way they operated with the Montagnard, in Vietnam.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Victoria33 on October 09, 2019, 01:59:31 PM
@txradioguy

It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners.  Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: ExFreeper on October 09, 2019, 04:35:19 PM
@ExFreeper first off...the soldiers were told to pull back...THEN the invasion started.  Turkey hadn't made a move in several years in that area.  They only did it becasue Trump retreated.

Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets.  50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet.  They are a "force multiplier".  Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.

So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.

Our retreat paved the way for what Turkey is about to do to the Kurds.

Relocating 50 Green Berets is not retreat! We are not an invading country and we should not be in Syria except limited ops killing ISIS!  Internal conflicts between clans that have been going on for 3000 years should not be our concern.

It is my understanding that Turkey wants a 30 mile buffer along the Syrian border for defending against PKK attacks.  Seems reasonable. 

I have done my time in the alert hangars at Incirlik and I don't like nor trust the Turks, however in this case the Turks have the right to protect their people against terrorist attacks. 

Our CIC has to make the tough decisions and those Green Berets will follow their orders.  I would guess that we got something from the Turks in return for the "retreat".

I would also assume the Kurds probably have the means and funding for acquiring shoulder-fired weapons against any Turk air incursion be it a helicopter or fixed wing outside of this buffer zone.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 04:48:18 PM
Relocating 50 Green Berets is not retreat! We are not an invading country and we should not be in Syria except limited ops killing ISIS!  Internal conflicts between clans that have been going on for 3000 years should not be our concern.

We pulled troops back on purpose with an enemy of one of our alleis ready to attack.  That's a retreat.

Again with the "400 year talking point".  FOr the 1,000th time this is NOT about that.  It's about abandoning a loyal ally people who have fought beside us in the war on terrorism since the beginning... and we're hanging them out to dry...again....just like Obama did.

Quote
It is my understanding that Turkey wants a 30 mile buffer along the Syrian border for defending against PKK attacks.  Seems reasonable.


If they only want a buffer...then why invade Syria and attack and kill civilians?  You want a buffer the diplomats from Erdogan and Assad's governments work that out.

Reasonable isn't attack civilian targets.

Quote
I have done my time in the alert hangars at Incirlik and I don't like nor trust the Turks, however in this case the Turks have the right to protect their people against terrorist attacks.


What terrorist attacks?  Erdogan and his band of facist thugs have been known to lie about attacks a coups in order to jail...execute and/or silence those opposed to his regime.

Haveing been there when Patriots from my unit were opearating in Turkey I neither trust nor like the Turks either...and now is not the time to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Quote
Our CIC has to make the tough decisions and those Green Berets will follow their orders.  I would guess that we got something from the Turks in return for the "retreat".

He got squat in return.  They heard his empty threat about destrying their economy...smiled and invaded Syria anyway.  IF anything he got a middle finger from Erdogan.

Quote
I would also assume the Kurds probably have the means and funding for acquiring shoulder-fired weapons against any Turk air incursion be it a helicopter or fixed wing outside of this buffer zone.

They ahve only what we can/will arm them with.  Who knows if we'll do that now that we've got another kook by the last name of Paul advising Trump on foreign policy.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 04:52:56 PM
That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support.  We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.

When you compare us to Russia or China we are very discriminatory who we help.  The if we weren't then every third world sh*t hold country would be filled with M-16's and LAWS rockets instead of AK-47's and RPG-7 launchers.

Quote
Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes.  That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.

Who exactly do you deem to be a privisional ally?  Would England or Germany fall into that category? 

And you do realize that some of these so called "provisional" allies allow us ease of access into places we might ahve to force our way into otherwise?

They provide intel and human intelligence assets that we woudn't otherwise have?  This is why you don't abandon them when it's politically expedient.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 09, 2019, 05:00:43 PM
@txradioguy

It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners.  Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.

Exactly right.  Trump has called Turkey assault on Syria a 'bad idea as at least 7 civilians have been reported dead.  What the heck did Trump think was going to happen??  His comment makes absolutely no sense as he was the one that denied Syria air support!!!  He's saying it was a bad idea ... so what?  What is he willing to do about it?  Nothing.  He is the one that destabilized the area.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 06:06:21 PM
When you compare us to Russia or China we are very discriminatory who we help.  The if we weren't then every third world sh*t hold country would be filled with M-16's and LAWS rockets instead of AK-47's and RPG-7 launchers.

Not sure what you're getting at here.   Who is making that comparison?

Quote
Who exactly do you deem to be a privisional ally?  Would England or Germany fall into that category? 

And you do realize that some of these so called "provisional" allies allow us ease of access into places we might ahve to force our way into otherwise?

They provide intel and human intelligence assets that we woudn't otherwise have?  This is why you don't abandon them when it's politically expedient.

Yes, of course there should be some benefit to an alliance.  Since we're talking about Syria, they fall into the provisional category. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 06:14:40 PM
Not sure what you're getting at here.   Who is making that comparison?

Yes, of course there should be some benefit to an alliance.  Since we're talking about Syria, they fall into the provisional category.

You were saying we should be more discriminatory in who we help.  I say that we are...unlike other influential countries in the world like China and Russia who interfere anywhere and everywhere they can in the world through arms sales and other types of direct suport in unstable regions of the world.

Syria isn't an ally....never have been never will be.  Th Kurds are an ally.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 07:38:44 PM
You were saying we should be more discriminatory in who we help.  I say that we are...unlike other influential countries in the world like China and Russia who interfere anywhere and everywhere they can in the world through arms sales and other types of direct suport in unstable regions of the world.

Syria isn't an ally....never have been never will be.  Th Kurds are an ally.

No.  The Syrian Kurds are NOT our ally.  They are a communist group of bad guys with whom we worked for a time to accomplish a specific purpose. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 09:06:40 PM
No.  The Syrian Kurds are NOT our ally.  They are a communist group of bad guys with whom we worked for a time to accomplish a specific purpose.

They are an ethnic group spread across several countries in Western Asia.

There's no such thing as "Syrian Kurds"


Quote
“The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone,” said the longtime member of Special Forces. “It’s a shame. We are just watching. It’s horrible.”

“This is not helping the ISIS fight," the military source said.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-invasion-special-forces-soldier-kurds (https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-invasion-special-forces-soldier-kurds)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 09:07:48 PM
They are an ethnic group spread across several countries in Western Asia.

There's no such thing as "Syrian Kurds"

Don't split hairs.  They are Kurds in Syria, and that particular group of Kurds are not good guys. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 09:09:24 PM
Don't split hairs.  They are Kurds in Syria, and that particular group of Kurds are not good guys.

Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally.  I'm being factually and historically accurate.

There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 09:13:51 PM
Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally.  I'm being factually and historically accurate.

There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.

OK, whatever.  We're done here.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 09, 2019, 09:32:46 PM
The current Kurd/Iranian conflict began in 1918. It has been going on now for 101 years.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 09:59:29 PM
Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.

Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.

EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.

Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.

Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.

Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:06:34 PM
Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.

Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.

EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.

Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.

Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.

Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.

IMHO if the U.S. soldiers on the ground working with them 24/7/365 trusted them...that's all the verification I need that they aren't the bad guys.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 10:07:48 PM
Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.

Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.

EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.

Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.

Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.

Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.

Here you go, Tom:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:10:12 PM
You don't know that they do.

Oh?  Might wanna think about that answer...just sayin.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 09, 2019, 10:11:57 PM
”Now, the Kurds are fighting for their land, just so you understand, they are fighting for their land. And as somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example, they mentioned the names of different battles, but they’re there to help us with their land, and that’s a different thing. In addition to that, we have spent tremendous amounts of money in helping the Kurds,” Trump continued. “With all of that being said, we like the Kurds.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:20:17 PM
”Now, the Kurds are fighting for their land, just so you understand, they are fighting for their land. And as somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example, they mentioned the names of different battles, but they’re there to help us with their land, and that’s a different thing. In addition to that, we have spent tremendous amounts of money in helping the Kurds,” Trump continued. “With all of that being said, we like the Kurds.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html)

(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/QajHhLKW3VRcs/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 10:31:30 PM
Here you go, Tom:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party

Islamic extremism is pretty bad, to me, ISIS have been somewhat like the Nazis.

Of course, we teamed up with Stalin to fight Hitler and I'm not sure the Kurds are as bad as Communists. Trump said the Kurds "died for us", so, I'm certainly not using that statement as a stand alone.

Apparently, some Kurds have even fought against Israel but overall, Israel is supportive of their struggle.

I'm on the phone, but the Kurdish question website deals with some of this too.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 09, 2019, 10:35:06 PM
Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally.  I'm being factually and historically accurate.

There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.

As already posted, @txradioguy , the Kurds that have been living in and on Syrian land for generations are "Syrian Kurds".

We understand they want their own autonomy and region carved out for them, but they've been somebody else's 'Terrorist' for 101 years and counting.

While it was convenient for both sides, we allied with them.  BFD! 

Indiana Ave, Kentucky Ave, and St. James for Park Place.  We both did well.

The Kurds just landed on Park Place with a hotel.

Whose son or brother should be the next one to lose a limb...be disfigured..or be killed for our 'allies' here?

Korea, Viet Nam, Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria.   All in my lifetime.   For what?  For whom?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 10:38:44 PM
Oh?  Might wanna think about that answer...just sayin.

I did.  And, I'm staying with it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 10:43:35 PM
I did.  And, I'm staying with it.

Well you stick with that and you can...well..nevermind...
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 09, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.

You know these "freedom fighters" are trying to establish an independent state within Turkey.  What would we call the charmers who'd try this with the United States?   :pondering:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 09, 2019, 10:52:04 PM
You know these "freedom fighters" are trying to establish an independent state within Turkey.  What would we call the charmers who'd try this with the United States?   :pondering:

A separate communist state.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 09, 2019, 10:54:41 PM
A separate communist state.

First, I think we would call them "the enemy" and fight them tooth and nail to keep our sovereignty intact.

But maybe that's just me.   happy77
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: aligncare on October 09, 2019, 11:01:44 PM
Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m a bit fuzzy on the facts, but don’t the Kurds have a history of ethnic cleansing against the Christians in Iraq, Syria and Turkey? I believe this is an underreported aspect of the Kurdish community.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 11:03:31 PM
Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m a bit fuzzy on the facts, but don’t the Kurds have a history of ethnic cleansing against the Christians in Iraq, Syria and Turkey? I believe this is an underreported aspect of the Kurdish community.

No they don't.  In fact the Kurds that are being attacked in Syria live in close proximity to and have dealing with Christian groups and villages nearby.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 09, 2019, 11:04:02 PM
@txradioguy

It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners.  Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.

Well Trumps not worried.  He says they are going to go to Europe.  Another totally asinine thing to say.

The Independent
Trump not worried about Isis fighters fleeing Syria because ‘they’re going to be escaping to Europe’
The IndependentOctober 9, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

Donald Trump has suggested he is not concerned some Isis fighters could escape in the chaos of a Turkish attack on Syria because “they’re going to be escaping to Europe”.

The US president abruptly removed 50 US troops out of northern Syria, allowing Turkey to attack America's Kurdish allies unimpeded.
The withdrawal prompted fears that some of the thousands of Isis fighters held by Kurdish-led forces might escape in the aftermath of the Turkish incursion.

Asked if he was concerned about some of the Isis fighters escaping and posing a threat elsewhere, Mr Trump said: “Well they’re going to be escaping to Europe.

“That’s where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes.”

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/trump-not-worried-isis-fighters-222439834.html
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:08:09 PM
If they seem to be good enough for our military, well, that's kind of why that NY Post article earlier was important, they fought ISIS, that's good enough for me.

Out of all of these, which would one want to live under:

The Mullahs of Iran/Hezbollah
Erdogan
Assad
Putin
PKK

It's a rough neighborhood, every has some big problems, what is the least worse?

We made a deal and we should stick with it... I don't know, maybe we have to arrest guilty parties, that was discussed previously.

Still, probably not enough to abandon them, per Haley, Cruz, Rubio, Lindsay and so on... probably Sasse and others too.

There's got to be more to the dumb decision that so many are horrified about.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 09, 2019, 11:09:54 PM
Well Trumps not worried.  He says they are going to go to Europe.  Another totally asinine thing to say. 

Why?  The prisoners are *from* European countries.  Europe refusing to take them back and try them is what set all this in motion.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:10:33 PM
Well Trumps not worried.  He says they are going to go to Europe.  Another totally asinine thing to say.

The Independent
Trump not worried about Isis fighters fleeing Syria because ‘they’re going to be escaping to Europe’
The IndependentOctober 9, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

Donald Trump has suggested he is not concerned some Isis fighters could escape in the chaos of a Turkish attack on Syria because “they’re going to be escaping to Europe”.

The US president abruptly removed 50 US troops out of northern Syria, allowing Turkey to attack America's Kurdish allies unimpeded.
The withdrawal prompted fears that some of the thousands of Isis fighters held by Kurdish-led forces might escape in the aftermath of the Turkish incursion.

Asked if he was concerned about some of the Isis fighters escaping and posing a threat elsewhere, Mr Trump said: “Well they’re going to be escaping to Europe.

“That’s where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes.”

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/trump-not-worried-isis-fighters-222439834.html

Yeah, is that worse than having a point of view like yours that might have ISIS still operating full-force? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 09, 2019, 11:11:50 PM

We made a deal and we should stick with it...

What deal did we make and with whom @TomSea

Thanks.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:17:13 PM
Oh by the way, is this rationale enough to make you abandon Christians? Because SDF are Christians too

National Review:
Quote
....The predominantly Christian unit is a small but symbolically important part of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which have encircled ISIS and are slowly closing in.

The Syriac officers point out that those who’ve joined their ranks — including Muslims, both Arabs and Kurds, foreigners, and other Christians — are a symbol of the Syria for which they are fighting: a federated Syria, an alternative to Baathism and Islamism. “For the first time in our history, we are fighting for each other,” says one Syriac commander.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/10/syrian-war-syriac-military-council-christians-muslims-arabs-kurds-federated-syria-versus-baathism-islamism-isis/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/10/syrian-war-syriac-military-council-christians-muslims-arabs-kurds-federated-syria-versus-baathism-islamism-isis/)

So, don't forget this, SDF are Christians too; Kurds spilled their blood for or more than anyone.

Remember, under EC, that whole sticky under world news was for Kurds and as it is, I've tried to post some articles on the Kurds, not that much interest... so honestly, love all the input but let's not become "instant experts" on them.

We made a deal 'apparently', Obama and company because no one else was working out to fight ISIS.

Bush and Obama created the mess, it's gotten slightly better, even with this turmoil, real genocide was going on.

So, you got that? CHRISTIANS who have been there since the New Testament times were being wiped out, don't tell me what's bad.

(http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/01/iraqi-christians-reuters.png)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 11:17:18 PM
Yeah, is that worse than having a point of view like yours that might have ISIS still operating full-force? I don't think so.

You yourself pointed out that there's a report a Turkish bomb hit a prison where ISIS prisoners are being kept.

There has been one attempted jailbreak already and some of the guards at the prisons are leaving their posts.

Tell me again exactly who's viewpoint is going to have ISIS back operating at full force?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: 240B on October 09, 2019, 11:19:07 PM
As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.
Shah of Iran
Egypt
South Vietnam
North Korea
Afghan villages and leaders
Iraqi villages and leaders
Numerous South American countries and groups
and on and on
America has a history of jumping in on one side or the other of a conflict all the way up to the point that they get tired of it and then pull out. Leaving all of their allies at the mercy of whatever enemy fills the void. It has happened over and over and over again.

Since WWII, America has only fought to stalemate. America never fights to a decisive victory. That is why we currently have what is being called "endless wars" (predicted by Orwell, btw). It is fine for America to pick some arbitrary point to say, 'That's all. We're done. We are going home.' But that leaves anyone who joined with us or supported us holding the bag. And they are frequently executed.

I would never act as a foreign spy for America. As a foreign group, I would never depend on America for anything. I would accept whatever help may be offered, but not to the point of dependency. America is way too fickle for me to bet my life on them.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:21:08 PM
What deal did we make and with whom @TomSea

Thanks.

Why? Would you rather ISIS still be in full power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces

YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.

Whole books are written on it, 2015, the SDF was formed. One can read up on it for themselves.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 11:22:21 PM
As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.
Shah of Iran
Egypt
South Vietnam
North Korea
Afghan villages and leaders
Iraqi villages and leaders
Numerous South American countries and groups
and on and on
America has a history of jumping in on one side or the other of a conflict all the way up to the point that they get tired of it and then pull out. Leaving all of their allies at the mercy of whatever enemy fills the void. It has happened over and over and over again.

Since WWII, America has only fought to stalemate. America never fights to a decisive victory. That is why we currently have what is being called "endless wars" (predicted by Orwell, btw). It is fine for America to pick some arbitrary point to say, 'That's all. We're done. We are going home.' But that leaves anyone who joined with us or supported us holding the bag. And they are frequently executed.

I would never act as a foreign spy for America. As a foreign group, I would never depend on America for anything. I would accept whatever help may be offered, but not to the point of dependency. America is way too fickle for me to bet my life on them.

Well said.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:27:47 PM
You yourself pointed out that there's a report a Turkish bomb hit a prison where ISIS prisoners are being kept.

There has been one attempted jailbreak already and some of the guards at the prisons are leaving their posts.

Tell me again exactly who's viewpoint is going to have ISIS back operating at full force?

I guess yours, with your point of view too, if you didn't vote for Trump, the Caliphate would have continued. It was losing ground by the end of Obama's term, this is so but it might have taken longer, victories were so-so.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:29:31 PM
Turkey's always been there, Turkey has always been rumored to be supporting Jihadist militias if not ISIS.  Turkey has always presented itself as a problem.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 11:31:02 PM
I guess yours, with your point of view too, if you didn't vote for Trump, the Caliphate would have continued. It was losing ground by the end of Obama's term, this is so but it might have taken longer, victories were so-so.

That's a real real lame attempt to lump me in as a NT Tommy Boy.  Real lame.  And at the same time you manage to defend how Obama handled that situation.  Nice.

It wasn't losing ground at the end of Obama's term.  It was spreading because of his feckless attempts to train rebels and instead he ended up arming the Taliban.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:35:12 PM
Don't take my word for it, ask Senator Cruz, ask Senator Graham, ask Senator Rubio under whose administration ISIS was beaten back. They'll tell you, Graham is rightfully mad about Trump's decision but that doesn't change history or the fact that the Military under Trump along with the SDF busted the Caliphate in Syria. Ask them, don't play games with me.

Some people, if they weren't finding fault with Trump on one thing, they'd be doing it on another thing. That's just self-evident.

I'm not here for one-upmanship, lying, I've been vocal about this on Trump since it happened.  This is a forum where issues are discussed.

Those Senators have said it, Trump is dropping the ball now and it's disappointing but as said, don't take my word for it because they all have said so.... if anyone thinks they are going to bowl me over on this.   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 09, 2019, 11:38:17 PM
Why? Would you rather ISIS still be in full power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces

YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.

Whole books are written on it, 2015, the SDF was formed. One can read up on it for themselves.

I don't understand your reply @TomSea   You referenced an agreement we made.  I'll ask again ... what is the agreement and with whom?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:46:25 PM
Quote
(http://kurdishquestion.com/visual/article/800x550/47c95479c3226d4a018b83ea60221fd0.jpg)
Three YPG internationalist volunteers killed in Raqqa battle against Islamic State

Three internationalist volunteers of the People's Defense (Protection) Unit (YPG) have been killed in clashes with the jihadist Islamic State (ISIS) group in Raqqa, northern Syria.

Briton Luke Rutter (Soro Zinar), 22, and Americans Robert Grodt (Demhat Goldman), 28, and Nicholas Alan Warden (Rodi Deysie), 29, lost their lives in battles on 5-6 July.

The YPG released a statement sending condolences to the families of the men and said they had "fought bravely against Daesh [ISIS] fascism and terrorism."

...

List of International Volunteers killed in action in Rojava-Democratic Federation of Northern Syria
1. Ashley Johnston 23 Feb 2015 AUS
2. Kosta Scurfield 2 Mar 2015 UK/GR
3. Ivana Hoffman 7 March 2015 GER
4. Mihemed Kerim 5 May 2015 IRAN
5. Keith Broomfield 3 Jun 2015 USA
6. Arnavut Karker. 26 June 2015 AL
7. Reece Harding 27 June 2015 AUS
8. Kevin Jochim 6 Jul 2015. GER
9. John Gallagher 4 Nov 2015 CAN
10. Gunter Hellstern 23 Feb 2016 GER
11. Mario Nunes 3 May 2016 POR
12. Jamie Bright 25 May 2016 AUS
13. Levi Jonathan Shirley 14 July 2016 USA
14. Dean Carl Evans 21 July 2016 UK
15. Martin Gruden 27 July 2016 SLO
16. Firaz Kardo 3 August 2016 SWE/EGYPT
17. Jordan MacTaggart 3 August 2016 USA
18. William Savage 10 Aug 2016 USA
19. Michael Israel 24 Nov 2016 USA
20. Anton Leschek 24 Nov 2016 GER.
21. Ryan Lock 21 Dec 2016 UK
22. Nazzareno Tassone 21 Dec 2016 CAN
23. Paolo Todd 15 January 2017 USA
24. Albert A Harrington 25 January 2017 USA
25. Merdali Süleymanov 23 April 2017 KAZ
26. Robert Grodt 5 July 2017 USA
27. Nicolas A Warden 5 July 2017 USA
28. Luke Rutter 5 July 2017 UK

http://kurdishquestion.com/article/3964-three-ypg-internationalist-volunteers-killed-in-raqqa-battle-against-islamic-state (http://kurdishquestion.com/article/3964-three-ypg-internationalist-volunteers-killed-in-raqqa-battle-against-islamic-state)

And all of this is info that is at least, 2 years old if not more. So, all of these foreigners went and fought against an evil that is pretty much equal to the Nazis. I'm not going to be whining about now, what the YPG or whatever thinks. They made the sacrifice.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 09, 2019, 11:50:27 PM
I don't understand your reply @TomSea   You referenced an agreement we made.  I'll ask again ... what is the agreement and with whom?

Thanks.

Glad to help out!

Quote
Foundation
The establishment of the SDF was announced on 11 October 2015 during a press conference in al-Hasakah.[120] The alliance built on longstanding previous cooperation between the founding partners. While the People's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Gel, YPG) and the Women's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Jin, YPJ) had been operating throughout the regions of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, the other founding partners were more geographically focused.

Geographically focused on the Euphrates Region were the YPG's partners in the Euphrates Volcano joint operations room, several mainstream Syrian rebel factions of the Free Syrian Army, who had helped defend the Kurdish town of Kobanî during the Siege of Kobanî. Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa was also in Euphrates Volcano, and it was expelled by the al-Nusra Front and ISIL from the city of Raqqa for being allied with the YPG since April 2014. The group participated in the capture of Tell Abyad from the Islamic State.

Geographically focused on the Jazira Region were the Assyrian Syriac Military Council (Mawtbo Fulhoyo Suryoyo, MFS) and the al-Sanadid Forces of the Arab Shammar tribe, both of whom had cooperated with the YPG in fighting ISIL since 2013.[121] The MFS is further politically aligned with the YPG via their shared secular ideology of democratic confederalism, which in the Assyrian community is known as the Dawronoye movement.[122]

Geographically focused on the Manbij Region was the Army of Revolutionaries (Jaysh al-Thuwar, JAT), itself an alliance of several groups of diverse ethnic and political backgrounds, who had in common that they had been rejected by the mainstream Syrian opposition for secular, anti-Islamist views and affiliations. However, most of the JAT component groups have always used the Free Syrian Army label and continue to use it.
Signatory groups

The following groups signed the founding document:[120]

    People's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Gel, YPG)
    Women's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Jin, YPJ)
    Al-Sanadid Forces
    Syriac Military Council (Mawtbo Fulhoyo Suryoyo, MFS)
    Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa
    Euphrates Volcano
    Army of Revolutionaries (Jaysh al-Thuwar, JAT)
        99th Infantry Brigade
    Brigade Groups of al-Jazira

On 10 December 2015, after a two-day conference, The Syrian Democratic Council was established as a political platform of the SDF. Human rights activist Haytham Manna was co-chairman at its founding.[123] The Assembly that established the Syrian Democratic Council was made up of 13 members from specific ethnic, economic and political backgrounds.

Syrian Arab Coalition

The Syrian Arab Coalition is claimed by the U.S. government as an alliance of programmatically exclusively ethnic Arab militias established during the Syrian Civil War. In this narrative, it consists of exclusively ethnic Arab component groups of the SDF alliance,[124][125] such as the al-Sanadid Forces, the Deir ez-Zor Military Council, Arab units within the Army of Revolutionaries, along with smaller factions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces#Signatory_groups
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 09, 2019, 11:55:08 PM
Those Senators have said it, Trump is dropping the ball now

Really?  What answers to this pickle we find ourselves in do these senators have @TomSea ---  because I've got a couple of questions.

The Kurds have been fighting an unrelenting guerilla war with the Turks (our NATO ally) for forty years in an effort to establish an independent state within Turkey.   Do we fight against Turkey with the Kurds?  Do we help all Kurds resettle in Kurdistan, Iraq and bring an end to the killing?  Do we convene an emergency session of the UN to carve out a brand, spanking new nation state called "Kurdistan 2.0" and relocate all Kurds there?  And where would these esteemed senators locate this new member of independent nations?

Have they said anything, anything at all, pointing to just what it is they want the United States to do for "the Kurds"?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 09, 2019, 11:58:10 PM
Glad to help out!

Who is this "alliance" against @TomSea   And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 10, 2019, 12:00:04 AM
As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.


With Tump in power, if I were Taiwan, I'd be shaking in my shoes.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 12:04:59 AM
Who is this "alliance" against @TomSea   And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?
@Right_in_Virginia

"Who is this "alliance" against"

That's pretty easy, ISIS. Are you new to this argument?

"And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?"

No, it doesn't overwrite it.

Now, where is Nato effective? Worldwide? Syria?  Afghanistan? One could make a case, we don't even have any business being in a sovereign country such as Syria but we should not get into legalese, Syria is a sponsor of terrorism and has been designated that since 1979.

So, these are academic questions, in the mean time, we continue to hold prisoners that the SDF caught.

Quote
US takes custody of two high-profile Islamic State fighters
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/takes-custody-high-profile-islamic-state-fighters-191010014412701.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/takes-custody-high-profile-islamic-state-fighters-191010014412701.html)

So, if your point is that we should reject the SDF, why are we accepting prisoners from them? You are just making an argument of legalese.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 12:06:30 AM
With Tump in power, if I were Taiwan, I'd be shaking in my shoes.

And again, with your view, ISIS might not have ever been knocked off its perch.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 10, 2019, 12:07:34 AM
YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.


They are and they do. The previous DNI, in this administration even said so, on pg 21 of his 2018 Worldwide Threat Assessment report.


The Kurdish People’s Protection Unit—the Syrian militia of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK)—probably will seek some form of autonomy but will face resistance from Russia, Iran, and Turkey.

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf (https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 12:10:13 AM
Quote
Report
NATO, the UN, and the Use of Force
Ivo H. Daalder
Monday, March 1, 1999

PRÉCIS

The debate surrounding NATO’s evolution from a collective defense alliance to an organization primarily concerned with managing crises centers around three questions:

1. Under what circumstances should NATO threaten use of force? The traditional criterion—self-defense against armed attack on any member’s home territory (Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty)—is too narrow. There is no doubt that NATO could embark on missions using force, if its members so desired, to confront crises or threats that do not directly affect allied territory but that may have implications for important national or humanitarian interests, (e.g., confronting arms proliferation or genocide)—though to what extent remains disputed within the alliance. The possibility for joint military action in a non-Article 5 context should not be conditioned on unanimous consent. An alliance that provides rapid and effective responses to crises in and outside allied territory, even if action is taken by a subset of allies, is preferable to one that conditions action on potentially unattainable unanimous support.

Read more at: https://www.brookings.edu/research/nato-the-un-and-the-use-of-force/ (https://www.brookings.edu/research/nato-the-un-and-the-use-of-force/)

I'd be careful in saying what is legal, what is not in all of this.... we are just talking about the letter of the law.

I'm a supporter of Nato, they helped us in Afghanistan. Libya is another topic where apparently, they were active.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 12:15:58 AM

They are and they do. The previous DNI, in this administration even said so, on pg 21 of his 2018 Worldwide Threat Assessment report.


The Kurdish People’s Protection Unit—the Syrian militia of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK)—probably will seek some form of autonomy but will face resistance from Russia, Iran, and Turkey.

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf (https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf)

So where does this leave us? That instead, American soldiers should have done the fighting the SDF has done? Or to let ISIS grow bigger and bigger because we would probably not fight that way, we did not have the will? We are sort of sabotaging our own fight.

So we need this perfect organization, why are we still accepting prisoners from them?

And this tie, that they are protection units for the government.   The mail service is aligned with the US government, for whatever that means.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 10, 2019, 12:30:29 AM
And again, with your view, ISIS might not have ever been knocked off its perch.

Stop lying.  Find one post of mine that I ever backed down support on the WOT....   I dare you.

And while you are at it, stop your hyprocricy.  This site will never forget your  2016 comment where you said those not supporting Trump were the same as ISIS and alQaeda.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: dancer on October 10, 2019, 12:42:11 AM
SMH.  Good grief, people.  Get a grip.  Those "troops" pulling out consists of 25 people!  25!  Our mid-East meddling has cost taxpayers $8 TRILLION dollars, countless LIVES and countless WOUNDED WARRIORS!

Not all KURDS are good people.  Actually it's a small group that are.  The rest are just as bad as the people they are fighting.  Wake up.  The only people wanting us to continue are profitting from the war machine, either directly or in bribes.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 10, 2019, 05:21:09 AM
So where does this leave us?


Hopefully, a little bit more informed about with whom we're dealing. Does that mean we should just cut and run on them? No, but alliances in that region often make strange bedfellows. They don't always share our long-term interests or values.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 05:49:10 AM
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.
@DB
You've stumped me, but I didn't try long.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 06:32:25 AM
The only way to stop this sh!t is to kill every Moslem out there.
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.  That's about 50,000 per day for 100 years.  I'm busy for the next 100 years.  You'd best get started.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 07:10:13 AM
Yeah, but isolationist seems so much sexier, don’t you think? Rhetorical question.  :cool:
Midwest isolationist  333cleo heck yeah!
Western Mormon isolationist are too plain for my tastes  66minnie
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 07:12:10 AM
SMH.  Good grief, people.  Get a grip.  Those "troops" pulling out consists of 25 people!  25!  Our mid-East meddling has cost taxpayers $8 TRILLION dollars, countless LIVES and countless WOUNDED WARRIORS!

Not all KURDS are good people.  Actually it's a small group that are.  The rest are just as bad as the people they are fighting.  Wake up.  The only people wanting us to continue are profitting from the war machine, either directly or in bribes.

 *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 07:37:37 AM
*****rollingeyes*****
@txradioguy
Are you saying you think it's worth 8 TRILLION dollars and everyone who was killed or wounded in war, for those 25 people???

I'm just kidding.
I have enjoyed your informative posts through this thread.  I learned more than I ever wanted to about Kurds.
Shout out to @TomSea who also added a lot to this discussion.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 10, 2019, 07:45:14 AM
@Right_in_Virginia

"Who is this "alliance" against"

That's pretty easy, ISIS. Are you new to this argument?

"And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?"

No, it doesn't overwrite it.   

Okay.  So your "alliance" defines an alliance of convenience ... one to fight ISIS.  And when this fight is done, so are we. 

Period.

Thanks for clarifying @TomSea
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 10, 2019, 07:53:38 AM
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.  That's about 50,000 per day for 100 years.  I'm busy for the next 100 years.  You'd best get started.

Give me the nuclear football and I will.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 08:24:06 AM
Give me the nuclear football and I will.
Before I do that can you tell me if there will be any collateral damage to non-muslims? 

I'm just kidding.  You seem like a very stable genius.  happy77  Your brand new nuclear football is on the way.  Expect 4-6 weeks for packing and shipping.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 10, 2019, 08:30:14 AM
Before I do that can you tell me if there will be any collateral damage to non-muslims? 

I'm just kidding.  You seem like a very stable genius.  happy77  Your brand new nuclear football is on the way.  Expect 4-6 weeks for packing and shipping.

I'll merely start with mecca. Then we'll see.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 10, 2019, 08:37:48 AM
Name anything Trump has stood firm on.

The border is still being invaded. He signed laws that further entrenched that situation.

Obamacare is still the law of the land.

Extreme deficit spending is as bad as it has ever been.

1st and 2nd (and other) amendment freedoms are slipping away.

Very true.  There is no denying any of what you have stated. Yes, back pedaling has absolutely been the norm for Trump.  Sad.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Victoria33 on October 10, 2019, 08:51:02 AM
Very true.  There is no denying any of what you have stated. Yes, back pedaling has absolutely been the norm for Trump.  Sad.
@libertybele

Just heard this morning, 100 Kurds killed so far.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 10, 2019, 08:56:35 AM
@libertybele

Just heard this morning, 100 Kurds killed so far.

Sad indeed.  I've also read that the Kurds are holding their positions by the ISIS prisoners.  **nononono*

On a positive, I heard on Beck yesterday that they still have an ongoing operation (The Nazarene) to rescue Christians over in the ME to keep them from being persecuted and/or murdered.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 08:59:32 AM
@txradioguy
Are you saying you think it's worth 8 TRILLION dollars and everyone who was killed or wounded in war, for those 25 people???

I'm just kidding.
I have enjoyed your informative posts through this thread.  I learned more than I ever wanted to about Kurds.
Shout out to @TomSea who also added a lot to this discussion.  :cheers:

@Once-Ler thanks.  I've been lucky enough to have been a few places that gives me some knowledge on this that a lot of people don't have and this situation has allowed me to use what I've learned over the years.j
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 10, 2019, 09:01:19 AM
Sad indeed.  I've also read that the Kurds are holding their positions by the ISIS prisoners.  **nononono*

On a positive, I heard on Beck yesterday that they still have an ongoing operation (The Nazarene) to rescue Christians over in the ME to keep them from being persecuted and/or murdered.

I'm wondering....if they were truly our FRiends and allies with a history, why haven't the ISIS prisoners been executed?

These are the animals that raped and butchered Yazidi girls and burned/drowned them in wooden cages.

Hat tip to the Kurds for using them as human shields.   Not letting a crisis go to waste.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 09:11:33 AM
I'm wondering....if they were truly our FRiends and allies with a history, why haven't the ISIS prisoners been executed?

These are the animals that raped and butchered Yazidi girls and burned/drowned them in wooden cages.

Hat tip to the Kurds for using them as human shields.   Not letting a crisis go to waste.

They are also great sources of Intel that the Kurds can extract from them in ways we can't.

Not to mention the fact you'd only incite the a big chunk of the Muslim world agaisnt the Kurds and us for that matter...if we just started wholesale executions of the captured ISIS fighters.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 10:13:17 AM
World
Syria Update: Turkey Is Blowing the Hell Out of It and the Russians Are Cheering
EsquireOctober 9, 2019, 10:25 AM PDT

Excerpt:

Everything you knew was going to happen is happening in northern Syria. Everything the president* should have known was going to happen—or, at the very least, vaguely care about happening, had he a shred of either intellect or humanity—is happening. Turkey is blowing the hell out of northern Syria. The Russians are cheering. The Iranians are thrilled. And the Kurds, sold out by another American president, are running for cover.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/syria-turkey-blowing-hell-russians-172000541.html (https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/syria-turkey-blowing-hell-russians-172000541.html)

As Trump disavows Kurds over WW2, Republican anger grows

By Nicole Gaouette, CNN 4 hrs ago

'Sickening'
"News from Syria is sickening," Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the third-ranking Republican in the House, tweeted Wednesday, echoing lawmakers across the spectrum. "Turkish troops preparing to invade Syria from the north, Russian-backed forces from the south, ISIS fighters attacking Raqqa. Impossible to understand why @realDonaldTrump is leaving America's allies to be slaughtered and enabling the return of ISIS."

Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio noted that "at request of this administration the Kurds served as the primary ground fighters against ISIS in Syria so U.S. troops wouldn't have to." Then, he charged, the administration "cut deal with Erdogan allowing him to wipe them out. Damage to our reputation & national interest will be extraordinary & long lasting."

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democratic Sen. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland on Wednesday announced a framework to place immediate sanctions on senior Turkish government officials, ban all US military business and military transactions with Turkey, and immediately activate 2017 sanctions on the country until Ankara stops its operations against the Kurds.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-trump-disavows-kurds-over-ww2-republican-anger-grows/ar-AAIwWdR?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-trump-disavows-kurds-over-ww2-republican-anger-grows/ar-AAIwWdR?ocid=spartanntp)

And the idiot is saying he doesn't care if ISIS escapes because they are going to escape to Europe.  Mr. President we live in a Global world.

And what has Pence to say about this?  Right now I think that the Democrats couldn't get rid of Trump soon enough.  The damage from just this one yuuuuuge policy mistake will be lasting for the entire world.  Trump wonders why his rating are going down?  Why people support impeachment?  Because he has always been a one man crew.  He said it in his campaign.  That he would listen to the Generals but he would make the decisions.  And that is why so many have been fired.  If they have different idea's from Trump they are out.  Bolton was the last thread holding this administration together.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 10:16:11 AM
Quote
And the idiot is saying he doesn't care if ISIS escapes because they are going to escape to Europe.  Mr. President we live in a Global world

@Chosen Daughter interesting turn of phrase by Trump considering the fact that Erdogan threatened the EU today with a flood of Turkish "immigrants" if they don't stop calling what he's doing an invasion.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 10:37:27 AM
@Chosen Daughter interesting turn of phrase by Trump considering the fact that Erdogan threatened the EU today with a flood of Turkish "immigrants" if they don't stop calling what he's doing an invasion.

This is a military super grab by Turkey, Iran and Russia.  Their flood of immigrants will be extremist Muslims too.  What Europe has enough of.  I can't imagine what Trump was trying to accomplish with this.  He was always trotting out the ISIS 100% gone.  Which was never the case, but now wishing them on Europe.  And if they are going to their previous homes expect Minnesota to be infested too!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 10:39:03 AM
This is a military super grab by Turkey, Iran and Russia.  Their flood of immigrants will be extremist Muslims too.  What Europe has enough of.  I can't imagine what Trump was trying to accomplish with this.  He was always trotting out the ISIS 100% gone.  Which was never the case, but now wishing them on Europe.  And if they are going to their previous homes expect Minnesota to be infested too!

The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing are Russia, Syria and Iran.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 10:41:05 AM
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing are Russia, Syria and Iran.

These surely are the end times. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 10:41:59 AM
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing is Russia, Syria and Iran.
Add in North Korea and that's all our best allies...now. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 10, 2019, 10:42:59 AM
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing are Russia, Syria and Iran.

 :yowsa: And that's exactly why it is so wrong to allow it to happen!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 10:57:46 AM
OK, thanks, I hate these endless wars too but I also hate abandoning the Kurds.

@jpsb

Many people agree,but you can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 11:02:01 AM
Thankfully 7 thousand miles away.  Being that far away did not stop 9/11.  His plan is to stop housing ISIS at Guantanamo also.  He is handing this all over to extremist Turkey.  Say goodbye to Christianity in the Middle East also.

We have ceased to be anything good in the world.

@Chosen Daughter

What's keeping YOU and your family from suiting up and going there to join with the Christian forces and pick up a rifle to join the fight? How many of your family members are infantrymen serving in the Muddle East?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 11:03:56 AM
Oh really?  So lets just let Iran and Turkey take over the entire region right?

@Chosen Daughter

Not our zoo,not our monkeys.

There is nothing keeping YOU from going there and picking up a rifle,though.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 10, 2019, 11:06:31 AM
The three countries that are the happeist about what Turkey is doing are Russia, Syria and Iran.

Is it fair to say that any progress that the U.S. made over in the ME in the past decade has now been setback?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 11:08:53 AM
Defending this stupid POTUS on his most heinous action ever.  The Kurds have been our most loyal allies in the WOT for almost 20 years.



@catfish1957

No,WE have been THEIR ally for close to 20 years,helping them fight a fight they were already fighting by providing them with training,weapons,food,clothing,and cash.

In return,they provided us with nothing at all. They were already fighting when we first went there.

I just hope we don't start importing the Kurds into America like we did the Somalians and others.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 10, 2019, 11:10:50 AM
Is it fair to say that any progress that the U.S. made over in the ME in the past decade has now been setback?

Thats the problem - we haven't made any progress anywhere in the ME.

Only the illusion of progress and even then only because we've interposed US bodies and treasure between the ages-old combatants.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 11:12:36 AM
He's worse than a failure.  He's turned his back on the Kurds who have gave countless lives to help us fight Islamic extremist. 
 

@catfish1957

WHAT?????? They were fighting this fight long before we came along. We just helped them with material and cash,we didn't talk them into it.

personal insult removed
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 10, 2019, 11:14:53 AM
@Chosen Daughter

What's keeping YOU and your family from suiting up and going there to join with the Christian forces and pick up a rifle to join the fight? How many of your family members are infantrymen serving in the Muddle East?

Reports are coming in that 100,000 are now displaced.  Christians are being prosecuted and murdered.  Those that were rescued previously and returned to their homes are now fleeing again.

This is no different than when Bammy pulled troops out allowing ISIS to form a caliphate.  Anyone forget the videos of ISIS beheadings?

I predict we now will be fighting ISIS on our own turf.  IF our southern border was under control and we had a handle on knowing who is coming across it would be one thing, but they don't.  That is reality. 

We will become another Europe -- refugees will no doubt be coming here and along with them those that want to destroy the U.S.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 11:16:25 AM
[ author=catfish1957 link=topic=378405.msg2069392#msg2069392 date=1570458196]


Quote
Allowing the Turks to massacre the Kurds,

"ALLOWING"????? What,did Trump give them letters from their mothers ALLOWING them to do what they have been doing their whole lives?

Quote
who have been our most loyal allies through the War on Terror?


Uhhh,WE were THEIR ally. THEY were already fighting their war.

 

 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 10, 2019, 11:17:38 AM
Thats the problem - we haven't made any progress anywhere in the ME.

Only the illusion of progress and even then only because we've interposed US bodies and treasure between the ages-old combatants.

WE haven't made any progress because we have been treating symptoms rather than the disease @skeeter!  The disease is the Mullahs in control of the Iranian government!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 11:20:21 AM

No way I can defend Trump on this, it stinks to high heaven to leave the kurds unprotected after they fought side by side with us against ISIS.


@jpsb

WRONG! WE were THEIR ally. THEY were NOT helping us. WE were helping THEM to fight a war they have been fighting since before any of their current fighters were even born.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 10, 2019, 11:22:23 AM
WE haven't made any progress because we have been treating symptoms rather than the disease @skeeter!  The disease is the Mullahs in control of the Iranian government!

And there's the House of Saud & the Wahabbis.

We could do something about them but it would take a declaration from congress and total war to accomplish anything lasting.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mountaineer on October 10, 2019, 11:23:56 AM
And there's the House of Saud & the Wahabbis.

We could do something about them but it would take a declaration from congress and total war to accomplish anything lasting.
Indeed. Who is up for that?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:25:18 AM
@Chosen Daughter

Not our zoo,not our monkeys.

There is nothing keeping YOU from going there and picking up a rifle,though.

[No name calling.  --Mod1]
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:26:20 AM

@jpsb

WRONG! WE were THEIR ally. THEY were NOT helping us. WE were helping THEM to fight a war they have been fighting since before any of their current fighters were even born.

  But hey...anything to justify Trumps retreat right?

[No more insults.  -- Mod1]
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 10, 2019, 11:28:21 AM
And there's the House of Saud & the Wahabbis.

We could do something about them but it would take a declaration from congress and total war to accomplish anything lasting.


Well, apparently we are energy independent now and don’t need their oil, anymore. I suppose we could begin by suspending arm sales to them, as members of Congress have suggested.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 10, 2019, 11:30:42 AM
And there's the House of Saud & the Wahabbis.

We could do something about them but it would take a declaration from congress and total war to accomplish anything lasting.

The House of Saud and the Wahabbis were largely under control until Jimmiuh CAAAATA foolishly allowed the Mullahs to take control of the Iranian government @skeeter and until they no longer are in control of that government no real progress is possible. 

And BTW:  WE do not need to launch a war with Iran to get rid of those B@stards!  All we need do is to back the right people internally in Iran and they will take care of that for us.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:32:08 AM
The House of Saud and the Wahabbis were largely under control until Jimmiuh CAAAATA foolishly allowed the Mullahs to take control of the Iranian government @skeeter and until they no longer are in control of that government no real progress is possible.

Nailed it.

Quote
And BTW:  WE do not need to launch a war with Iran to get rid of those B@stards!  All we need do is to back the right people internally in Iran and they will take care of that for us.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen any time soon.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:37:42 AM
At least someone is showing leadership and stepping up to help the Kurds.

Quote
Benjamin Netanyahu
@netanyahu
 · 3h
Israel strongly condemns the Turkish invasion of the Kurdish areas in Syria and warns against the ethnic cleansing of the Kurds by Turkey and its proxies.
Israel is prepared to extend humanitarian assistance to the gallant Kurdish people.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 10, 2019, 11:39:00 AM

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen any time soon.

I'm not about to hold my breath waiting for OUR national government to do ANYTHING that is actually in the best interests of the great majority of people in this country @txradioguy.  They will, however, do EVERYTHING possible to preserve the swamp that is Washington exactly as it is for as long as they can.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:40:52 AM
I'm not about to hold my breath waiting for OUR national government to do ANYTHING that is actually in the best interests of the great majority of people in this country @txradioguy.  They will, however, do EVERYTHING possible to preserve the swamp that is Washington exactly as it is for as long as they can.

Yeah...sadly they will do just that.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:49:22 AM
And for those on here that say we should expel Turkey from NATO if we don't like what they are doing...well I've been doing some research on that.

There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.

Hate to ruin a talking point...but that's the facts.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 11:52:36 AM
https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status/1182304234991243264

Dan Crenshaw @DanCrenshawTX
The great irony of the “no more endless wars” camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.

Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.
9:37 AM · Oct 10, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: mystery-ak on October 10, 2019, 11:57:42 AM
There are several threads on this topic...it is a hot issue that can be debated without personal insults
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 12:00:32 PM
Okay.  So your "alliance" defines an alliance of convenience ... one to fight ISIS.  And when this fight is done, so are we. 

Period.

Thanks for clarifying @TomSea

Well, the fight didn't end and Brett McGurk wrote:

Quote
Both Obama and Trump rejected that option, and in May 2017, Trump decided to directly arm the YPG to ensure that it could take Raqqa from ISIS.

American diplomats were able to manage the resulting tensions with Turkey thanks to the U.S. military’s presence in Syria.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2019-04-16/hard-truths-syria (https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2019-04-16/hard-truths-syria)

So, according to McGurk, contrary to the narrative that this alliance all formed under Obama, Trump made the decision to directly arm the YPG to take Raqqa from ISIS. So, there is some responsibility there.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: edpc on October 10, 2019, 12:07:11 PM
There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.


That’s true, but a collective effort by the other members to marginalize them would probably make them leave, on their own, similar to what France did in the 60s. Problem is, the leader of the strongest NATO member says the organization is or isn’t obsolete, on any given day. Good luck forming a coalition.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 12:17:56 PM

That’s true, but a collective effort by the other members to marginalize them would probably make them leave, on their own, similar to what France did in the 60s. Problem is, the leader of the strongest NATO member says the organization is or isn’t obsolete, on any given day. Good luck forming a coalition.

And most of the EU that are also NATO members are too scared of their own shadow to stand up to Erdogan. Which is why he’s able to get away with the threat he made today.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 10, 2019, 12:21:54 PM
And for those on here that say we should expel Turkey from NATO if we don't like what they are doing...well I've been doing some research on that.

There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.

Hate to ruin a talking point...but that's the facts.

So, are you saying Nancy Pelosi can just do it?   :laugh:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 12:35:00 PM
McMasters and others are on right now on Cspan discussing all of these things, I think it is a live FDD (Foundation for Developing Democracies) meeting.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 12:37:13 PM
[No name calling.  --Mod1]

@Mod1  @txradioguy

Who did I call a name in that post?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 12:38:47 PM
  But hey...anything to justify Trumps retreat right?

 

@txradioguy

Once again,you are so emotionally involved in this,WHAT is preventing YOU from going there and picking up a rifle?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: skeeter on October 10, 2019, 12:39:25 PM


And BTW:  WE do not need to launch a war with Iran to get rid of those B@stards!  All we need do is to back the right people internally in Iran and they will take care of that for us.

It does seem we make the most progress when we simply arm those in the region with an immediate stake in the outcome that lines up with our own.

Having said that I'm outta this debate. I agree with those on the other side of it on too many other important issues.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 12:41:43 PM
At least someone is showing leadership and stepping up to help the Kurds.

@txradioguy

ROFLMAO! Yeah,Israel stepping into the breach by sending Jewish fighters should really make things there as smooth as butta,huh?

What could POSSIBLY go wrong if that happened?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Jazzhead on October 10, 2019, 12:42:26 PM
Based on what I know,  count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East.   These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries.   The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes.   Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power.   But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 12:52:13 PM
So, are you saying Nancy Pelosi can just do it?   :laugh:

If she were do to that....it would be the only time in my life I'd every support anything she did.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 12:52:50 PM
Based on what I know,   

You'd have been smart to stop right there.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 12:54:31 PM
@txradioguy

ROFLMAO! Yeah,Israel stepping into the breach by sending Jewish fighters should really make things there as smooth as butta,huh?

What could POSSIBLY go wrong if that happened?

I'm just quote this without any further comment as an example of how little you know of Israels dealings and interactions with other Muslim countries and ethnic groups in the ME.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 10, 2019, 12:57:34 PM
Based on what I know,  count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East.   These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries.   The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes.   Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power.   But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.   

@Jazzhead, you and I are in agreement here.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 10, 2019, 01:00:07 PM
It's almost as if this Kurd thing was designed to take some other things off the front page for a bit.   :pondering:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: XenaLee on October 10, 2019, 01:11:46 PM
It's almost as if this Kurd thing was designed to take some other things off the front page for a bit.   :pondering:

Wag the dog/puss?   
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 10, 2019, 01:13:38 PM
Wag the dog/puss?

If he was, I 'd hope he would be smarter than using this controversial action.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 01:24:01 PM
Based on what I know,  count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East.   These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries.   The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes.   Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power.   But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.   

A few people I have seen make the case, "this is a tribal war, it's been going on forever".

Sorry, Christians may have been the first innocent victims in yesterday's attack.  So, this depersonalizes what is at stake.

No 2003 invasion, no Bush, no Obama and maybe no persecution of Christians, Christians who have btw, died fighting ISIS.

Some reports say Christians were among the first victims yesterday:

Quote
Wladimir
@vvanwilgenburg
·
4h
Christian fighter of @SyriacMFS
 is not surprised two Christians were the first to be killed in the Turkish attack in the Al-Beshayriyyeh neighborhood in Al-Qamishli city Wednesday. "This is what Erdogan wants. Especially the Christians are his first target."

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGhQ7yOXoAEhdSp?format=jpg&name=small)

https://twitter.com/vvanwilgenburg/status/1182283899013079042

The SDF, Arabs, Kurds, Christians, did the dirty work on the ground. I find this a morally bankrupt philosophy on this conflict.

Try the view in 2003, not in 2019 after Bush and Obama and plenty of others.  And Trump possibly has severely erred.  We have a moral responsibility, the war was mismanaged,  the flames of sectarianism fanned.

McMaster is talking about whether something like this was going to happen anyway, meaning the Turkish invasion.  It does seem like sooner or later, this was something that had to be confronted. Europe though, could do much more, not for it all to be up to us.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: TomSea on October 10, 2019, 01:34:51 PM
Backstab on your own time, not on mine.  Yes, Trump may have erred, McMaster just said, maybe he didn't fully understand the operations he was told by Erdogan. It's no simple matter, as of now, I'd find it hard to vote for Trump but we'd see.  Still, might be better than the alternative, we don't know everything about this.

This is a bit like Kennedy's Bay of Pigs.

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEmI_FT4YHU#)

"Masters Of War"

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 10, 2019, 02:13:05 PM
https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status/1182304234991243264

Dan Crenshaw @DanCrenshawTX
The great irony of the “no more endless wars” camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.

Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.
9:37 AM · Oct 10, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

Dan Crenshaw is a man who has walked the walk as well as talking the talk and should be listened to @Once-Ler.

He couldn't be any more right about this.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 10, 2019, 06:21:36 PM
@Jazzhead, you and I are in agreement here.

Add me in.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 09:22:29 PM
This is incredible...@DB had it right in another thread when he said:

Quote
The word "conservative" has been destroyed. Its been replaced with the populist blow of the wind.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 10, 2019, 10:45:46 PM
Dan Crenshaw is a man who has walked the walk as well as talking the talk and should be listened to @Once-Ler.
@Bigun
I agree, and I like Crenshaw a lot :beer:, but I am withholding judgement on the Syria withdraw at the moment.  I have lots of other stuff to dislike about President Trump and I'm trying to expand my perceptions and moderate my natural instinct to condemn every thing Trump does because some times it hasn't been worth condemnation, and I don't know much about foreign policy or war.  I've read this whole thread and the responses of McConnell, Graham, Haley, and other Republicans I still hold respect for.  They all seem to believe this was a mistake.  I'm not saying they're wrong.  I'm just not ready to commit that this issue is completely black and white.  I need to see the fall out still.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 10:59:27 PM
@Chosen Daughter

What's keeping YOU and your family from suiting up and going there to join with the Christian forces and pick up a rifle to join the fight? How many of your family members are infantrymen serving in the Muddle East?

Why don't you get a life.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 11:04:00 PM
@catfish1957

No,WE have been THEIR ally for close to 20 years,helping them fight a fight they were already fighting by providing them with training,weapons,food,clothing,and cash.

In return,they provided us with nothing at all. They were already fighting when we first went there.

I just hope we don't start importing the Kurds into America like we did the Somalians and others.

I know how horrible.  Some of them might be Christian.   Certainly not all.  If your king Trump didn't want people to seek asylum from the ethnic cleansing Turkey is doing he shouldn't have arranged for it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 11:05:52 PM
Reports are coming in that 100,000 are now displaced.  Christians are being prosecuted and murdered.  Those that were rescued previously and returned to their homes are now fleeing again.

This is no different than when Bammy pulled troops out allowing ISIS to form a caliphate.  Anyone forget the videos of ISIS beheadings?

I predict we now will be fighting ISIS on our own turf.  IF our southern border was under control and we had a handle on knowing who is coming across it would be one thing, but they don't.  That is reality. 

We will become another Europe -- refugees will no doubt be coming here and along with them those that want to destroy the U.S.

Guaranteed.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 11:19:54 PM

@jpsb

WRONG! WE were THEIR ally. THEY were NOT helping us. WE were helping THEM to fight a war they have been fighting since before any of their current fighters were even born.

Whatever.  Trump and his loyal are like the Curley, Moe and Larry show.  They aren't coordinated in their talking points.  For instance Trump says that they were fighting together.  Nothing about fighting "forever", but he sure tells it like it is in these video's.  He admits that we were fighting together to defeat ISIS.  Well that used to be a great thing for Trump.  Now he doesn't care if ISIS are released. He doesn't care about them in Europe.  He cared when they were in Syria, but not when they are in Europe.  Bizarre.  I can remember every single time that @Right_in_Virginia trotted out how Trump defeated ISIS.  Oh, what a drag can't use that one now.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Trump+we+like+the+Kurds+2018&view=detail&mid=F489F64A30D7A2B21963F489F64A30D7A2B21963&FORM=VIRE (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Trump+we+like+the+Kurds+2018&view=detail&mid=F489F64A30D7A2B21963F489F64A30D7A2B21963&FORM=VIRE)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Trump+we+like+the+Kurds+2018&view=detail&mid=83335551074103CF32DA83335551074103CF32DA&FORM=VIRE (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Trump+we+like+the+Kurds+2018&view=detail&mid=83335551074103CF32DA83335551074103CF32DA&FORM=VIRE)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 11:20:48 PM
I know how horrible.  Some of them might be Christian.   Certainly not all.  If your king Trump didn't want people to seek asylum from the ethnic cleansing Turkey is doing he shouldn't have arranged for it.

@Chosen Daughter

You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 11:23:45 PM
@txradioguy

ROFLMAO! Yeah,Israel stepping into the breach by sending Jewish fighters should really make things there as smooth as butta,huh?

What could POSSIBLY go wrong if that happened?

You got your ugly on don't you!!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 11:31:52 PM
@Chosen Daughter

You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.

I don't think they want me.  Past the age.  Cancer survivor.  My son may some time in the future.  People who sign up for the military do so knowing that they can be called to active duty.  That is part of serving the country.  Going when it is necessary.  Knowing the risks.  Otherwise a person would not sign up.

I have lost someone to Iraq but I am not going to give details.  You are the last person I would confide in.  I don't use those who served this country for political forum conversation.

Shame on you. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 11:36:35 PM
It's almost as if this Kurd thing was designed to take some other things off the front page for a bit.   :pondering:

That would be unimaginable evil.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:39:24 PM
@Chosen Daughter

You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.

Don't see you suiting up or picking up a rifle...practice what you preach.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 10, 2019, 11:47:50 PM
Trump wasn't worried about ISIS fighters escaping or being released.  He said they are going to go home to Europe.  What about these ISIS from America?  Are they coming home?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/americans-15-who-left-united-states-join-isis-n573611 (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/americans-15-who-left-united-states-join-isis-n573611)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 10, 2019, 11:52:32 PM
Trump wasn't worried about ISIS fighters escaping or being released.  He said they are going to go home to Europe.  What about these ISIS from America?  Are they coming home?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/americans-15-who-left-united-states-join-isis-n573611 (https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-uncovered/americans-15-who-left-united-states-join-isis-n573611)

@Chosen Daughter

If they are...it's all the more reason to make sure your powder is dry and a weapon is close at hand at all times.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 10, 2019, 11:53:57 PM
@Chosen Daughter

You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.

No, it's much worse.  She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 12:07:23 AM
No, it's much worse.  She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.

How pompous of you.  My name isn't Trump and I don't send anyone to fight anywhere.  But I can't think of a more worthy cause than this.  You can disagree and its your right to.  But you don't talk for all military families.  Sorry.

And another thing.  Your fake.  Never heard you say one word about Trump doing anything wrong.  Has Trump done the exact opposite and ordered more troops to support the Kurds you would be for it.  You and all the Trump bots.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 11, 2019, 12:27:45 AM
No they are not. That is a flat out blatant falsehood. Not sure where exactly you come up with some of this bullshit...but that’s one of the biggest whoppers you’ve told in quite awhile.

It’s like you just can’t help yourself.

You need to stop.


https://www.stripes.com/news/concerns-raised-over-military-presence-nukes-stored-in-turkey-1.479940 (https://www.stripes.com/news/concerns-raised-over-military-presence-nukes-stored-in-turkey-1.479940)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/07/19/an-old-nuclear-weapons-deal-raises-new-questions-about-u-s-bombs-in-turkey/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/07/19/an-old-nuclear-weapons-deal-raises-new-questions-about-u-s-bombs-in-turkey/)

https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-threats-against-turkey-could-threaten-us-nuclear-arsenal-2019-10 (https://www.businessinsider.com/trumps-threats-against-turkey-could-threaten-us-nuclear-arsenal-2019-10)

While there was talk of moving weapons to Romania, it is questionable whether that was done.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/19/no-the-u-s-is-not-moving-its-nukes-from-turkey-to-romania/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/19/no-the-u-s-is-not-moving-its-nukes-from-turkey-to-romania/)

https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2016/08/18/usa-moves-nuclear-weapons-from-incirlik-air-base-in-turkey-to-romania/ (https://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/2016/08/18/usa-moves-nuclear-weapons-from-incirlik-air-base-in-turkey-to-romania/)

Officially, the comment is "I can neither confirm nor deny...." when it comes to the disposition of nuclear weapons, as a standard security measure.

What we do know, is that at least until 2016, there were US nukes at Incirclik.


Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 11, 2019, 12:38:11 AM
Don't see you suiting up or picking up a rifle...practice what you preach.

@txradioguy

I'm not the one calling for US troops to go to war to defend the Kurds. YOU and others are the ones doing this,so why don't YOU go there and pick up a rifle and save them?

BTW,I DID pick up a rifle and go to war as an infantryman when called. In fact,I was a career weapons man in the US Army. You?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 11, 2019, 12:39:50 AM
No, it's much worse.  She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.

@Sanguine

Yes,I know. Those types are always the most enthusiastic about sending troops off to war.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 08:07:17 AM
I can remember every single time that @Right_in_Virginia trotted out how Trump defeated ISIS. 

While I am happy to be your personal hobby @Chosen Daughter do try reading what I post with an eye not toward recordkeeping, but comprehension.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 11, 2019, 08:35:01 AM
@txradioguy

I'm not the one calling for US troops to go to war to defend the Kurds. YOU and others are the ones doing this,so why don't YOU go there and pick up a rifle and save them?

BTW,I DID pick up a rifle and go to war as an infantryman when called. In fact,I was a career weapons man in the US Army. You?

I'm a Vet, I did my war in the USMC and if I were younger I would reup to help in Syria. Honor once lost is very difficult to regain and Trump has shown me he has no honor. Giving Turkey the OK to invade Syria so Turkey  can wipe out our Kurdish allies is an unforgivable
betrayal. The nations honor has been stained.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 10:00:13 AM
@txradioguy

I'm not the one calling for US troops to go to war to defend the Kurds. YOU and others are the ones doing this,so why don't YOU go there and pick up a rifle and save them?

BTW,I DID pick up a rifle and go to war as an infantryman when called. In fact,I was a career weapons man in the US Army. You?

21 years in the Army and counting. 3 combat tours...Somalia Iraq and Afghanistan. 

I walk the walk and talk the talk. So your attempt at a d*ck measuring contest with me won’t work
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 10:01:33 AM
@Sanguine

Yes,I know. Those types are always the most enthusiastic about sending troops off to war.

And you’re the type who wants civilians here to die when the attacks our on our soil. It’s almost like you want them to happen here.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 10:02:47 AM
I'm a Vet, I did my war in the USMC and if I were younger I would reup to help in Syria. Honor once lost is very difficult to regain and Trump has shown me he has no honor. Giving Turkey the OK to invade Syria so Turkey  can wipe out our Kurdish allies is an unforgivable
betrayal. The nations honor has been stained.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 10:04:38 AM
No, it's much worse.  She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.

You served when exactly?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 11, 2019, 10:07:43 AM
You served when exactly?

Don't even try that crap on me.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 10:10:37 AM
Don't even try that crap on me.

But it’s ok for you to pull that “crap” on others?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 11, 2019, 10:11:17 AM
How pompous of you.  My name isn't Trump and I don't send anyone to fight anywhere.  But I can't think of a more worthy cause than this.  You can disagree and its your right to.  But you don't talk for all military families.  Sorry.

And another thing.  Your fake.  Never heard you say one word about Trump doing anything wrong.  Has Trump done the exact opposite and ordered more troops to support the Kurds you would be for it.  You and all the Trump bots.

???

Are you in the right forum, @Chosen Daughter ?

@Sanguine  was NEVER an avid Trump Supporter.  In fact, she and I squared off more than once..More than a few times.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 11, 2019, 10:22:57 AM
You served when exactly?

Her husband gave his life for this country @txradioguy. PLEASE don't go there!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 11, 2019, 10:30:12 AM
I initially posted on this thread when my passion was in control and now that I have had time to reflect on the matter my position is somewhat different.

For personal reasons that I am not allowed to share with you, my heart is with @txradioguy And @jpsb but my head tells me that the president made the right call here and I'm very glad that I'm not the one who had to make it.

The fact is that this country has signed, ratified treaties with Turkey and none with my Kurdish friends who have no actual country of their own.  It sucks but it's still a fact.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 11:00:50 AM
Her husband gave his life for this country @txradioguy. PLEASE don't go there!

Didn't know that.  And @Sanguine I'm truly sorry for your loss.

However...@Bigun that doesn't give her a free pass on that completely bullsh*t stuff she said to @Chosen Daughter.

Losing a loved one in combat doesn't give someone some kind of moral high ground to say sh*tty things to others and not get called on it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 11:01:51 AM
I initially posted on this thread when my passion was in control and now that I have had time to reflect on the matter my position is somewhat different.

For personal reasons that I am not allowed to share with you, my heart is with @txradioguy And @jpsb but my head tells me that the president made the right call here and I'm very glad that I'm not the one who had to make it.

The fact is that this country has signed, ratified treaties with Turkey and none with my Kurdish friends who have no actual country of their own.  It sucks but it's still a fact.

And what exactly has Turkey done to honor those contracts?  They can be revoked as easily as they were agreed upon.

That needs to start happening yesterday.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 11, 2019, 11:19:45 AM
And what exactly has Turkey done to honor those contracts?  They can be revoked as easily as they were agreed upon.

That needs to start happening yesterday.

No disagreement on that at all but I do not think the president can just unilaterally do that.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 11, 2019, 11:41:14 AM
Didn't know that.  And @Sanguine I'm truly sorry for your loss.

However...@Bigun that doesn't give her a free pass on that completely bullsh*t stuff she said to @Chosen Daughter.

Losing a loved one in combat doesn't give someone some kind of moral high ground to say sh*tty things to others and not get called on it.

Don't bother.  And, go back and read what I actually said.  And, then put me on ignore.  I don't want to hear from you again.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 11:50:41 AM
Don't bother.  And, go back and read what I actually said.  And, then put me on ignore.  I don't want to hear from you again.

Sorry you feel that way.  Not gonna put you on ignore even if I could.

IIRC you can't put Forum Mods on ignore.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on October 11, 2019, 12:05:30 PM
Sorry you feel that way.  Not gonna put you on ignore even if I could.

IIRC you can't put Forum Mods on ignore.

Yes, you can.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 12:06:40 PM
Yes, you can.

Good to know.  I know in the past it wasn't an option.

However...I'm still not putting her on ignore. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 11, 2019, 12:23:45 PM
I'm a Vet, I did my war in the USMC and if I were younger I would reup to help in Syria. Honor once lost is very difficult to regain and Trump has shown me he has no honor. Giving Turkey the OK to invade Syria so Turkey  can wipe out our Kurdish allies is an unforgivable
betrayal. The nations honor has been stained.

Straying a bit from the topic, but I served 8+ years in Air Defense Artillery. Both my dad and stepdad served in WWII. I have two sons aged 30 and 17, and neither have any desire to join the military. The closest I've gotten to a recommendation is to consider the Coast Guard or the Texas National Guard. Events since 2009 have led me to distrust the chain of command, starting with the Commander in Chief. I'm not real impressed with the perfumed princes (and princesses) at the Pentagon either.

My sons have heard my stories about commanders that were true leaders and great men, and those that through their actions I considered REMFs. I don't talk about my service much, shoot it's been nearly 35 years since I left active duty.

We've had a volunteer force since 1975 (give or take), and 3 Presidents that avoided military service, one a certifiable draft dodger. Each one of those 3 Presidents never truly understood the sacrifices and sense of duty that every honorable service member has made since the founding of our Country. IOW, they never "got it".

Given the sorry state of our government and its institutions, I simply cannot recommend military service to my children, nieces, and nephews. I've been asked, and I try to give them the positives and negatives, so they can make an informed decision.
 
Accordingly, I think it's silly for posters here to call out others for not serving, or suggesting they should send their sons and daughters into harms way in a quagmire thousands of miles away.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 11, 2019, 12:38:19 PM
I'm a Vet, I did my war in the USMC and if I were younger I would reup to help in Syria. Honor once lost is very difficult to regain and Trump has shown me he has no honor. Giving Turkey the OK to invade Syria so Turkey  can wipe out our Kurdish allies is an unforgivable
betrayal. The nations honor has been stained.

I was never in the military, but my father taught me that honor and integrity was everything; without those you have nothing. I trust very few people in this world as I quickly learned over the years, that very, very few people have integrity.  Very sad.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 11, 2019, 12:41:06 PM
Sorry you feel that way.  Not gonna put you on ignore even if I could.

IIRC you can't put Forum Mods on ignore.

@txradioguy

Ahhh,if only there would some way we could get them to put US on "ignore"!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 11, 2019, 12:48:29 PM
Straying a bit from the topic, but I served 8+ years in Air Defense Artillery. Both my dad and stepdad served in WWII. I have two sons aged 30 and 17, and neither have any desire to join the military. The closest I've gotten to a recommendation is to consider the Coast Guard or the Texas National Guard. Events since 2009 have led me to distrust the chain of command, starting with the Commander in Chief. I'm not real impressed with the perfumed princes (and princesses) at the Pentagon either.

My sons have heard my stories about commanders that were true leaders and great men, and those that through their actions I considered REMFs. I don't talk about my service much, shoot it's been nearly 35 years since I left active duty.

We've had a volunteer force since 1975 (give or take), and 3 Presidents that avoided military service, one a certifiable draft dodger. Each one of those 3 Presidents never truly understood the sacrifices and sense of duty that every honorable service member has made since the founding of our Country. IOW, they never "got it".

Given the sorry state of our government and its institutions, I simply cannot recommend military service to my children, nieces, and nephews. I've been asked, and I try to give them the positives and negatives, so they can make an informed decision.
 
Accordingly, I think it's silly for posters here to call out others for not serving, or suggesting they should send their sons and daughters into harms way in a quagmire thousands of miles away.

I enlisted in 69, today's military is more lethal, but I detest woman in combat MOSs and the repeal of "don't ask don't tell". Openly gay
in the military is not a good idea. And women in the infantry is another very bad idea. Women on submarines is a horrible idea. I
wonder how our PC military will do if (G*d forbid) we face a real world power like China. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 12:52:48 PM
I enlisted in 69, today's military is more lethal, but I detest woman in combat MOSs and the repeal of "don't ask don't tell". Openly gay
in the military is not a good idea. And women in the infantry is another very bad idea. Women on submarines is a horrible idea. I
wonder how our PC military will do if (G*d forbid) we face a real world power like China.

Not very well if things kicked off tomorrow.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: musiclady on October 11, 2019, 12:55:23 PM
???

Are you in the right forum, @Chosen Daughter ?

@Sanguine  was NEVER an avid Trump Supporter.  In fact, she and I squared off more than once..More than a few times.

But not lately, right?  Things have changed.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: musiclady on October 11, 2019, 12:58:12 PM
No, it's much worse.  She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.

Do you have any proof to back up that (nasty) ad hominem?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Sanguine on October 11, 2019, 12:59:01 PM
Do you have any proof to back up that (nasty) ad hominem?

Good grief, you don't need to ask me, go read what she said. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: musiclady on October 11, 2019, 01:04:17 PM
Good grief, you don't need to ask me, go read what she said.

I did.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: libertybele on October 11, 2019, 01:06:32 PM
@Chosen Daughter

If they are...it's all the more reason to make sure your powder is dry and a weapon is close at hand at all times.

With all those pouring over our southern borders in unprecedented amounts, I believe ISIS is already here and have formed various different pockets within different cities and are just waiting for the right time to strike.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 11, 2019, 01:09:18 PM
With all those pouring over our southern borders in unprecedented amounts, I believe ISIS is already here and have formed various different pockets within different cities and are just waiting for the right time to strike.

Muslims have been caught in the large groups of illegals coming across the border.

And now we have illegals from Africa showing up on the Southern border as well trying to get in.  Certain parts of Africa are hotbeds for Muslim terrorism as well.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 11, 2019, 01:12:25 PM
I enlisted in 69, today's military is more lethal, but I detest woman in combat MOSs and the repeal of "don't ask don't tell". Openly gay
in the military is not a good idea. And women in the infantry is another very bad idea. Women on submarines is a horrible idea. I
wonder how our PC military will do if (G*d forbid) we face a real world power like China.

There has been a constant over the years...the most dangerous weapon in the Army is a 2nd Lieutenant with a map.   :rolling:

I was lucky...my battalion in Germany was air base defense (short range), no women were authorized. I was there when women were force fed into Nike Hercules batteries, before remote sites were upgraded for women soldiers. You can imagine the morale problems when female E-1s arrived at the unit, and were allowed to live off site, while male E-5s and E-6s were required to move into the barracks.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 02:26:50 PM
Good grief, you don't need to ask me, go read what she said.

Good grief, look what you posted first:

In response to this post:
@Chosen Daughter

You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.

You responded:

No, it's much worse.  She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.



First of all I would like to say sorry for your loss.  Perhaps you could appreciate that many of us have lost loved ones in the war on terror.  I didn't realize your loss and can understand your emotions.  But you cannot speak for everyone else.  Nor can you dictate that people do not have a right to an opinion because they do not personally serve in the military.  If that was a fact we wouldn't have this forum.  For that matter we could be severely critical of electing officials who have not serves either.  They shouldn't have an opinion as far as you are concerned.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 02:31:31 PM
Muslims have been caught in the large groups of illegals coming across the border.

And now we have illegals from Africa showing up on the Southern border as well trying to get in.  Certain parts of Africa are hotbeds for Muslim terrorism as well.

And the presidents comments on ISIS being let loose as a result of this operation are troubling.  He is actually very bizarre.  He brought up again in the Minnesota rally about defeating ISIS 100%.  But the other day he said he wasn't concerned if they were let loose because they are going to go home to Europe.  Hello Mr. President.  You either are concerned about ISIS or your not.  It is a global world and there are ways to get into the US.  The border is a huge one.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: GrouchoTex on October 11, 2019, 02:44:48 PM
I've heard that President Trump is abandoning the Kurds, and that he knew of and approved the Turkish invasion that targeted the Kurds.
Later, I've heard that he is not abandoning the Kurds and is sending them more arms.
I am not sure what the truth is anymore.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 03:07:01 PM
I have lost someone to Iraq but I am not going to give details.  You are the last person I would confide in.  I don't use those who served this country for political forum conversation.  Shame on you.   

Yes, you do use those who served this country for political forum conversation.  You just did  pointing-up
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 03:08:17 PM
I've heard that President Trump is abandoning the Kurds, and that he knew of and approved the Turkish invasion that targeted the Kurds.
Later, I've heard that he is not abandoning the Kurds and is sending them more arms.
I am not sure what the truth is anymore.

I think the truth is he has sustained very harsh criticism and the story is ever changing.  I think he did approve of the invasion.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 03:10:33 PM
@Chosen Daughter

If they are...it's all the more reason to make sure your powder is dry and a weapon is close at hand at all times.

OMG … the drama that goes on here is LOL funny.   :silly:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: musiclady on October 11, 2019, 03:10:38 PM
I think the truth is he has sustained very harsh criticism and the story is ever changing.  I think he did approve of the invasion.

This is what happens when you elect a man without a core......   **nononono*
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 03:12:07 PM
Yes, you do use those who served this country for political forum conversation.  You just did  pointing-up

No, I didn't and that was the point.  You have to go back and see what this was in response too.  If I did I would be like the President at his Minnesota Rally trying to mimic the reactions of family members to loss and injury.  It was disgusting.  And all to rubber stamp his approval of the invasion into Syria.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 03:13:12 PM
This is what happens when you elect a man without a core......   **nononono*

I agree.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 03:14:22 PM
OMG … the drama that goes on here is LOL funny.   :silly:

You like heavy drama what are you talking about.  Trumps speech in Minnesota was dripping with it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 11, 2019, 03:17:27 PM
Good grief, look what you posted first:

In response to this post:
@Chosen Daughter

You aren't willing to fight for them yourself,or have your family fight for them,so your opinion has all the value of a fart in a hurricane.

You responded:

No, it's much worse.  She's willing to send other people's loved ones to do what she won't.



First of all I would like to say sorry for your loss.  Perhaps you could appreciate that many of us have lost loved ones in the war on terror.  I didn't realize your loss and can understand your emotions.  But you cannot speak for everyone else.  Nor can you dictate that people do not have a right to an opinion because they do not personally serve in the military.  If that was a fact we wouldn't have this forum.  For that matter we could be severely critical of electing officials who have not serves either.  They shouldn't have an opinion as far as you are concerned.

If there are any fingers to be pointed, they should be directed at Congress. They have given up their responsibilities under the Constitution, allowing Presidents for decades to unilaterally put our service members in harms way.

About 15% of Congress are veterans. Quick searches indicate that less than 2 children of current congressman are serving in the military today. Whether it's zero, one, two, or up to 10, nothing more needs to be said.

As I stated before, it's an all volunteer force, but that doesn't give Congress a pass for its irresponsible governance.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 03:37:46 PM
If there are any fingers to be pointed, they should be directed at Congress. They have given up their responsibilities under the Constitution, allowing Presidents for decades to unilaterally put our service members in harms way.

About 15% of Congress are veterans. Quick searches indicate that less than 2 children of current congressman are serving in the military today. Whether it's zero, one, two, or up to 10, nothing more needs to be said.

As I stated before, it's an all volunteer force, but that doesn't give Congress a pass for its irresponsible governance.


I think that all war powers should have check and balance whether pulling troops out or sending them in.  If corruption can occur with high officials what is to stop it?

Like this for instance.  Withdrawing troops to make way for another foreign government to invade.  It is still an act of war.  US government aiding another government in their act of war.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 04:18:55 PM
Christianity reacts:

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/october/turkish-invasion-kicks-off-with-bloodshed-for-us-allies-and-christian-minority-in-Syria (https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2019/october/turkish-invasion-kicks-off-with-bloodshed-for-us-allies-and-christian-minority-in-Syria)

https://www.persecution.org/2019/10/10/turkey-hides-genocide-behind-invasion-syria/ (https://www.persecution.org/2019/10/10/turkey-hides-genocide-behind-invasion-syria/)

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 11, 2019, 04:35:38 PM
This is what happens when you elect a man without a core......   **nononono*
:amen:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: berdie on October 11, 2019, 05:04:40 PM
This has been one of the best and most informative  threads I have ever read on this site. I appreciate everyone's insight (@txradioguy and others) and took lots of notes and did lots of research.

But truthfully...as much as I read the harder it gets to make a decision on right or wrong. I don't think the people in the ME think like us. That will never change.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 11, 2019, 05:13:52 PM
This has been one of the best and most informative  threads I have ever read on this site. I appreciate everyone's insight (@txradioguy and others) and took lots of notes and did lots of research.

But truthfully...as much as I read the harder it gets to make a decision on right or wrong. I don't think the people in the ME think like us. That will never change.

The only solution to the problems in the ME is the next Extinction Event. According to AOC, it's coming in less than 12 years.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 11, 2019, 05:53:59 PM
This has been one of the best and most informative  threads I have ever read on this site. I appreciate everyone's insight (@txradioguy and others) and took lots of notes and did lots of research.

But truthfully...as much as I read the harder it gets to make a decision on right or wrong. I don't think the people in the ME think like us. That will never change.
Well, as I see it, without making moral judgements of either group we have treaty obligations (NATO) with the Turks.

We have shed blood alongside the Kurds, fighting ISIS. They have been a major factor in the defeat and capture of most of ISIS.
Some 10K ISIS prisoners are in custody, in prison, in Syria.
The Turks and Kurds have been in conflict since the partition of the region post WWI, when the Kurds were left without their own country when the lines were drawn.
The Turks want a "buffer zone" some 35 miles into Syria, but that same zone includes the prison the ISIS captives are in, and most of the Kurd area in Northern Syria.
If the Turks invade, there will be a fight between them and the Kurds, who will defend any land they see as theirs.
During that fight, there is a good chance that the ISIS fighters in custody will be released or escape.
There is always to likelihood of civilian casualties in the Kurdish areas.

Removing the Special Forces Troops from the area may keep us from being in direct conflict with Turkish forces, with whom we have a treaty (NATO Obligations), but it abandons the guys we've fought alongside to beat back ISIS.

There is no good answer which allows us to both maintain our obligation to the people we have shed blood with and keep us out of conflict with an ally we have treaty obligations with.

The only solution which would do both is to convince the Turks to back off and not invade and kill the Kurds (and risk releasing the ISIS prisoners).

In the midst of a no-win situation, as policy goes, Trump has chosen to pull our people out of the combat zone.
Some folks here are good with that, some don't like it, but frankly, I don't see what alternative he has.
He is painted into a corner on this, by treaty obligations, and by unwritten obligations to comrades in arms, with no good alternative. 
YMMV. Soldiers follow orders, whether those orders are considered "good" or not, with few exceptions.

While there are few good guys in the Middle East, the Kurds got the shaft during the post Ottoman partition of the region, and have been handed the sh*tty end of the stick since, with great regularity. I sympathize with their desire for a homeland, and they are religiously diverse as a people, despite being majority Muslim, and tolerant of the other religions among them. 
It was the actions of the Turkish Brigade in Korea which bailed out my Dad's unit under an ongoing wave attack by Chinese troops, a situation the US Army had apparently written off. I wouldn't be here if not for that relief action. Still, I recognize that Turkey has a record of genocidal actions, including that taken against the Armenians, and that they are Muslim.




Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: berdie on October 11, 2019, 06:36:38 PM
Removing the Special Forces Troops from the area may keep us from being in direct conflict with Turkish forces, with whom we have a treaty (NATO Obligations), but it abandons the guys we've fought alongside to beat back ISIS.

There is no good answer which allows us to both maintain our obligation to the people we have shed blood with and keep us out of conflict with an ally we have treaty obligations with.

The only solution which would do both is to convince the Turks to back off and not invade and kill the Kurds (and risk releasing the ISIS prisoners).






Thank you for your reply.  It is more or less what I believe....there is no good answer.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Bigun on October 11, 2019, 06:39:45 PM



Thank you for your reply.  It is more or less what I believe....there is no good answer.

It was a damned site better before the previous occupant of the WH decided to fix things in that region.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 11, 2019, 07:32:20 PM
Muslims have been caught in the large groups of illegals coming across the border.

And now we have illegals from Africa showing up on the Southern border as well trying to get in.  Certain parts of Africa are hotbeds for Muslim terrorism as well.

@txradioguy

BINGO!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 09:01:10 PM
You like heavy drama what are you talking about.  Trumps speech in Minnesota was dripping with it.

My dear, sweet innocent ... last night's speech wasn't drama; it was truth.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 09:03:33 PM
But truthfully...as much as I read the harder it gets to make a decision on right or wrong. I don't think the people in the ME think like us. That will never change.

Quote
"The greatest mistake our country has made is going into the quicksand of the Middle East."  -- DJT, Oct 10, 2019
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 11, 2019, 09:03:38 PM
The only good answer is bigheadfred with the nuclear football going up the middle (east).

Erdogan is trying to go full muzzie jihad. Trump is pulling back to let him. THEN see how much of a use Turkey is to NATO.

INTERNECINE. Look it up.

Understand it.

WE don't have a dog in this fight.

Put your money on Assad or Erdogan?

FFS

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Once-Ler on October 11, 2019, 09:58:21 PM
The only good answer is bigheadfred with the nuclear football going up the middle (east).

Erdogan is trying to go full muzzie jihad. Trump is pulling back to let him. THEN see how much of a use Turkey is to NATO.

INTERNECINE. Look it up.

Understand it.

WE don't have a dog in this fight.

Put your money on Assad or Erdogan?

FFS
(https://images.dailycaller.com/image/width=1280,height=549,fit=cover,f=auto/https://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/smod-2016-e1473368230994.jpg)

SMOD let me down in 2016 and this year I'm not sending money to Assad or Erdogan.
I looked up Nectarine and I'm with you for 2020 BHF
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 11:00:13 PM
My dear, sweet innocent ... last night's speech wasn't drama; it was truth.

That was Drama alright.  If this isn't acting I don't know what is.  Don't say it isn't.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/strzok-page-trump-mock-rally (https://www.foxnews.com/media/strzok-page-trump-mock-rally)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 11:06:24 PM
That was Drama alright.  If this isn't acting I don't know what is.  Don't say it isn't.

The President really gets deep under your skin -- and then does a tap dance. 

This pleases me.   88devil

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 11:15:15 PM
The President really gets deep under your skin -- and then does a tap dance. 

This pleases me.   88devil

Glad I can be helpful.  LOL!
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 11, 2019, 11:20:06 PM
The President really gets deep under your skin -- and then does a tap dance. 

This pleases me.   88devil

And to think we have 13 more months of this before the Election.    :2popcorn:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 11:27:14 PM
And to think we have 13 more months of this before the Election.    :2popcorn:

Five years counting Trump's next term. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 11:27:50 PM
Glad I can be helpful.  LOL!

You never disappoint.   happy77
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 11, 2019, 11:31:46 PM
You never disappoint.   happy77

Neither do you.  Its extremely amusing seeing someone so far up Trumps anus that they won't even take a fresh breath of air.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 11, 2019, 11:47:55 PM
(https://images.dailycaller.com/image/width=1280,height=549,fit=cover,f=auto/https://cdn01.dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/smod-2016-e1473368230994.jpg)

SMOD let me down in 2016 and this year I'm not sending money to Assad or Erdogan.
I looked up Nectarine and I'm with you for 2020 BHF

LOL

Quote
I looked up Nectarine

Anita Bryant just went tits up...

LOL

SMOD hit in 2016. Making my nuclear winner look like a Texas blizzard.

Quote
I'm not sending money to Assad or Erdogan

I don't send anyone money either. I transfer it.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 11, 2019, 11:57:10 PM
Neither do you.  Its extremely amusing seeing someone so far up Trumps anus that they won't even take a fresh breath of air.

We'll have you know that Pres. Trump's sh*t doesn't stink...nothin' wrong with the air up there. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 11, 2019, 11:58:52 PM
We'll have you know that Pres. Trump's sh*t doesn't stink...nothin' wrong with the air up there.

 88devil
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 12, 2019, 12:02:55 AM
Neither do you.  Its extremely amusing seeing someone so far up Trumps anus that they won't even take a fresh breath of air.

How charming --- another anus fixation.   :smokin:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 12:14:10 AM
We'll have you know that Pres. Trump's sh*t doesn't stink...nothin' wrong with the air up there.
Thanks for confirming what I already knew.   I wasn't the only one that knew where she is hanging out.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 12, 2019, 12:18:41 AM
Getting back on topic.... I'm glad that we've had a few days to analyze and weigh this decision...a decision that has opened a few wounds here.

It a complex riddle with no easy answer.

1) We have a signed, internationally recognized alliance treaty with Turkey.  We have no such thing with the Kurds.

2) The Kurds are fighting for land.  They've been fighting for their own land for over one hundred years.

3) While we were eradicating ISIS in Syria, we made an arrangement with the Syrian Kurds.  This arrangement had an expiration date and was purposefully set up so as NOT to get us bogged down in another war.

4) Donald Trump campaigned on getting us out of global conflicts that don't actively pursue victory.  No more "policing".

Personally, I think Turkey told us they were going to commence operations and as a courtesy suggested we remove our "50 men".  They were ready to call our bluff, and POTUS Trump is smart enough not to destroy Turkish tanks with missiles.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 12, 2019, 12:20:15 AM
Thanks for confirming what I already knew.   I wasn't the only one that knew where she is hanging out.

Was only speaking  for myself, @Chosen Daughter  :laugh:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 12, 2019, 12:30:29 AM
Thanks for confirming what I already knew.   I wasn't the only one that knew where she is hanging out. 

Such bitterness and disdain from someone chosen forces one to ponder just who made the choice.   :pondering:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 12, 2019, 12:33:37 AM
Getting back on topic.... I'm glad that we've had a few days to analyze and weigh this decision...a decision that has opened a few wounds here.

It a complex riddle with no easy answer.

1) We have a signed, internationally recognized alliance treaty with Turkey.  We have no such thing with the Kurds.

2) The Kurds are fighting for land.  They've been fighting for their own land for over one hundred years.

3) While we were eradicating ISIS in Syria, we made an arrangement with the Syrian Kurds.  This arrangement had an expiration date and was purposefully set up so as NOT to get us bogged down in another war.

4) Donald Trump campaigned on getting us out of global conflicts that don't actively pursue victory.  No more "policing".

Personally, I think Turkey told us they were going to commence operations and as a courtesy suggested we remove our "50 men".  They were ready to call our bluff, and POTUS Trump is smart enough not to destroy Turkish tanks with missiles.

Just posted an article with an interesting "take" on all of this from Horowitz at Conservative Review @DCPatriot

Here's the link:  http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,378994.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,378994.0.html)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 12:38:09 AM
Was only speaking  for myself, @Chosen Daughter  :laugh:

You live there too?
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 12, 2019, 12:45:13 AM
You live there too?

I've got a 'Sky Suite'!     :laugh:
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Texas Yellow Rose on October 12, 2019, 01:13:16 AM
This is what "they" are saying ....

https://www.facebook.com/insah.akrin/videos/2497646223846276/ (https://www.facebook.com/insah.akrin/videos/2497646223846276/)

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 12, 2019, 01:24:31 AM
This is what "they" are saying ....

https://www.facebook.com/insah.akrin/videos/2497646223846276/ (https://www.facebook.com/insah.akrin/videos/2497646223846276/)

bkmk

Copying link.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 01:26:26 AM
Such bitterness and disdain from someone chosen forces one to ponder just who made the choice.   :pondering:

You are right and I deserve that.  Thank you for pointing out that I also had my ugly on.  I have been very worked up over this change in policy that puts Christians in danger.  Still no reason to get ugly.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: bigheadfred on October 12, 2019, 01:43:39 AM
You are right and I deserve that.  Thank you for pointing out that I also had my ugly on.  I have been very worked up over this change in policy that puts Christians in danger.  Still no reason to get ugly.  Thank you.

Yeah. Step back. All ya? @Right_in_Virginia

WHAT is the threat?

You are killing each other...
Quote
in policy that puts Christians in danger
.

Either of ya Christian?

Killing me.

Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 04:01:56 AM
Yeah. Step back. All ya? @Right_in_Virginia

WHAT is the threat?

You are killing each other... .

Either of ya Christian?

Killing me.

Yes, I am a Christian.  I was wrong tonight to engage in this bickering.  But it isn't just about Christians in Syria.  The Kurds are of many different religions maybe not even religious.  But this is the place of early Christianity and they have already suffered under ISIS.  The spin doctors are trying to make Trump look good but he is anything but good.  He is cold and uncaring.  His own words tell the true story.

Here Trump refers to Syria as sand and death when telling his cabinet he wants to withdraw troops.  No wealth so no worth to us.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Trump+sand+and+death&&view=detail&mid=9D1DBC41008D3ED3FCDE9D1DBC41008D3ED3FCDE&rvsmid=981B20B1078E157A9F03981B20B1078E157A9F03&FORM=VDQVAP (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Trump+sand+and+death&&view=detail&mid=9D1DBC41008D3ED3FCDE9D1DBC41008D3ED3FCDE&rvsmid=981B20B1078E157A9F03981B20B1078E157A9F03&FORM=VDQVAP)

Also important to note in the video that Trump is not concerned about a small amount of ISIS coming to America.  He says they will go to Iran, Iraq, Syria and Russia.  When we see ISIS active again, burning people in cages I will think of Trump.  When we see in the news guns pointed at babies heads I will think of Trump.  When they are beheading someone's father, mother or child...…….Trump.   Trumps like a table of contents in a book.  You can look and see what its about without even turning a page.  Its all about wealth. 

No value on the people who live in Syria.  Doesn't care if ISIS is killing in any country except ours.  The other day he said they will go home to Europe.  History is full of dictators with no value on human life.

And he doesn't even care about our military that have been killed in action fighting ISIS.  Try to spin what he said on that video.  He acknowledged that they will go free.  So I wonder how people who have served catching and killing these monsters are going to feel knowing that the President doesn't care.  He doesn't care because most of them will not come here.  But some might.

He said it.  I just watched it.  How can you spin it?  I am sure some will try.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 12, 2019, 07:20:34 AM
President Trump will be giving an award to a (Christian) person he rescued from Turkey in front of a audience of strong supporter of the
Kurds and Christians in Syria today. Should be interesting to see what he's got to say.

Trump appearing before evangelicals as Turkey policy imperils Kurd-protected Christians

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-appearing-before-evangelicals-as-turkey-policy-imperils-kurd-protected-christians (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-appearing-before-evangelicals-as-turkey-policy-imperils-kurd-protected-christians)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: catfish1957 on October 12, 2019, 09:27:24 AM
President Trump will be giving an award to a (Christian) person he rescued from Turkey in front of a audience of strong supporter of the
Kurds and Christians in Syria today. Should be interesting to see what he's got to say.

Trump appearing before evangelicals as Turkey policy imperils Kurd-protected Christians

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-appearing-before-evangelicals-as-turkey-policy-imperils-kurd-protected-christians (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-appearing-before-evangelicals-as-turkey-policy-imperils-kurd-protected-christians)

Hope he hears a little anger.  The past week will not be forgotten.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: jpsb on October 12, 2019, 09:56:10 AM
Hope he hears a little anger.  The past week will not be forgotten.


Certainly the Kurds and Christians protected by the Kurds will not forget. But events on the ground will determine Trumps fate. If Turkey
goes big in Syria then Trump will pay big in 2020. If the Turks pull the plug on their invasion then Trump will not suffer much damage.
Right now Trump fate is in the hands of Islamic Turkey.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: sneakypete on October 12, 2019, 09:58:49 AM
Such bitterness and disdain from someone chosen forces one to ponder just who made the choice.   :pondering:

@Right_in_Virginia

It has been my observation ever since I was a child that is is the most rabidly devout that have the most to worry about if their superstition ends up being factual. It might not be obvious enough you can see it,but there is plenty of it that is deeply hidden.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 03:09:13 PM
@Right_in_Virginia

It has been my observation ever since I was a child that is is the most rabidly devout that have the most to worry about if their superstition ends up being factual. It might not be obvious enough you can see it,but there is plenty of it that is deeply hidden.

If.  Questioning is a good thing.  Great step forward.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 03:14:54 PM

Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network, said after Trump announced the withdrawal that he was “in great danger of losing the mandate of Heaven.”

Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, asked people to pray for Trump to reconsider, saying “thousands of lives hang in the balance.”
Trump won 81% of the vote from white evangelical Christians in the 2016 election, which came just weeks after a decade-old Access Hollywood video surfaced showing him bragging about kissing and grabbing women because “when you are a star, they let you do it.”

Evangelicals have stuck with Trump since, through sex scandals like his alleged payments to hush up an affair with a porn star, and controversies like the investigation into Russian election meddling. In a Reuters/Ipsos poll from mid-September, 70% of white evangelicals approve of Trump’s job performance.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-religion/at-evangelical-conference-concerns-about-syria-but-cheers-for-trump-idUSKBN1WQ2QM (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-religion/at-evangelical-conference-concerns-about-syria-but-cheers-for-trump-idUSKBN1WQ2QM)

I wonder what is going to happen if ISIS returns to the region with ethnic cleansing as they did before our Military and the Kurds nearly completely contained them?  The images will destroy the support that Trump has had with the Evangelical community.  It is his own policy and callous disregard for human life that will destroy him.  And destroy this country being that there is no Conservative running to take his place.

Perhaps Christians will hold their nose and vote for him.  But these statements from Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham are an indication that what Trump has done here cannot be ignored.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: musiclady on October 12, 2019, 04:05:37 PM
Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network, said after Trump announced the withdrawal that he was “in great danger of losing the mandate of Heaven.”

Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, asked people to pray for Trump to reconsider, saying “thousands of lives hang in the balance.”
Trump won 81% of the vote from white evangelical Christians in the 2016 election, which came just weeks after a decade-old Access Hollywood video surfaced showing him bragging about kissing and grabbing women because “when you are a star, they let you do it.”

Evangelicals have stuck with Trump since, through sex scandals like his alleged payments to hush up an affair with a porn star, and controversies like the investigation into Russian election meddling. In a Reuters/Ipsos poll from mid-September, 70% of white evangelicals approve of Trump’s job performance.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-religion/at-evangelical-conference-concerns-about-syria-but-cheers-for-trump-idUSKBN1WQ2QM (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-religion/at-evangelical-conference-concerns-about-syria-but-cheers-for-trump-idUSKBN1WQ2QM)

I wonder what is going to happen if ISIS returns to the region with ethnic cleansing as they did before our Military and the Kurds nearly completely contained them?  The images will destroy the support that Trump has had with the Evangelical community.  It is his own policy and callous disregard for human life that will destroy him.  And destroy this country being that there is no Conservative running to take his place.

Perhaps Christians will hold their nose and vote for him.  But these statements from Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham are an indication that what Trump has done here cannot be ignored.

I said it at the time and I’ll say it again..... the formerly known as ‘Evangelical ‘ Christians who said that Trump’s molestation and adultery shouldn’t keep Christians from voting for him , marked the end of the Evangelical/Political right.

When you give up everything you value for political power, you have destroyed yourselves.

Both these men should have known that Trump was not the answer to America’s moral problems when they started slobbering over him. Shame on them for allowing themselves to be fooled by a valueless charlatan.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
I said it at the time and I’ll say it again..... the formerly known as ‘Evangelical ‘ Christians who said that Trump’s molestation and adultery shouldn’t keep Christians from voting for him , marked the end of the Evangelical/Political right.

When you give up everything you value for political power, you have destroyed yourselves.

Both these men should have known that Trump was not the answer to America’s moral problems when they started slobbering over him. Shame on them for allowing themselves to be fooled by a valueless charlatan.

And it was even more than that.  They went on and on about Mark Taylor and his Trump Prophesy.  There were books written.  And "Heaven Mandate".  I have heard a lot of people do prophesy.  But the Bible tells us to test the Spirits for truth.  That was not truth.

They compared him to King Cyrus.  At that time the Temple was needed.  There is a New Covenant and the believers are the Temple.  So we know that the building of the Third Temple is for the antichrist. 

I feel sad that they propped him up to that level.  I do believe that no matter who the president is it will serve Gods purpose and we need to pray for them.  But I pray for them to do Gods Will. 
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 05:08:46 PM
Well its happening.  ISIS is going free.  Little children are having their legs blown off and loosing their lives.  The car bombs...…….

All that our military has worked for in Syria is for nothing.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/heres-what-we-know-about-the-isis-prisons-controlled-by-the-syrian-kurds/ar-AAIGeMb?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/heres-what-we-know-about-the-isis-prisons-controlled-by-the-syrian-kurds/ar-AAIGeMb?ocid=spartanntp)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 12, 2019, 05:14:06 PM
You know I kind of do like Melania.  She carries herself well and looks professional.  Its hard to understand how she listens Donald day in and day out.

Not saying she is a good Conservative.  I don't really know but the times she has spoken it was impressive.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 13, 2019, 06:16:03 PM
 
Turkish airstrikes in Syria reportedly target journalist convoy, civilians; at least 9 dead

Frank Miles 1 hr ago

Fresh airstrikes from Turkey reportedly targeted civilians and a group of foreign reporters in the Syrian border town of Ras al-Ayn, according to monitoring groups and Syrian Kurdish officials.

The Syrian Observatory of Human Rights said the airstrike killed at least nine people - including five civilians on Sunday, while other reports claimed that a convoy with foreign journalists was also targeted, according to Haaretz.

France 24 reported that one journalist was also among the dead, while two French reporters were also injured in the attack. The nationality of the slain journalist was not immediately confirmed.

The airstrikes came hours after President Donald Trump ordered all U.S. troops to withdraw from the area to avoid getting caught in the middle of the fast-escalating conflict. The announcement represents a major shift in alliances for Syria's Kurds after they were abandoned by the U.S., with whom they were longtime partners in the fight against the Islamic State group.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkish-airstrikes-in-syria-reportedly-target-journalist-convoy-civilians-at-least-9-dead/ar-AAIIOoo?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkish-airstrikes-in-syria-reportedly-target-journalist-convoy-civilians-at-least-9-dead/ar-AAIIOoo?ocid=spartanntp)
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 13, 2019, 07:11:28 PM

Turkish airstrikes in Syria reportedly target journalist convoy, civilians; at least 9 dead

Frank Miles 1 hr ago

Fresh airstrikes from Turkey reportedly targeted civilians and a group of foreign reporters in the Syrian border town of Ras al-Ayn, according to monitoring groups and Syrian Kurdish officials.

The Syrian Observatory of Human Rights said the airstrike killed at least nine people - including five civilians on Sunday, while other reports claimed that a convoy with foreign journalists was also targeted, according to Haaretz.

France 24 reported that one journalist was also among the dead, while two French reporters were also injured in the attack. The nationality of the slain journalist was not immediately confirmed.

The airstrikes came hours after President Donald Trump ordered all U.S. troops to withdraw from the area to avoid getting caught in the middle of the fast-escalating conflict. The announcement represents a major shift in alliances for Syria's Kurds after they were abandoned by the U.S., with whom they were longtime partners in the fight against the Islamic State group.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkish-airstrikes-in-syria-reportedly-target-journalist-convoy-civilians-at-least-9-dead/ar-AAIIOoo?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkish-airstrikes-in-syria-reportedly-target-journalist-convoy-civilians-at-least-9-dead/ar-AAIIOoo?ocid=spartanntp)

'Journalist' convoy my ass.  GTFO of there. 

Discuss "human rights" violations afterwards...not while they're busy being human shields themselves.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: txradioguy on October 13, 2019, 08:49:44 PM
'Journalist' convoy my ass.  GTFO of there. 

Discuss "human rights" violations afterwards...not while they're busy being human shields themselves.

You should have really thought more about that post before you hit send.  Quit trying to constantly to White Knight for Trump and use your head for once.
Title: Re: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds
Post by: DCPatriot on October 13, 2019, 09:01:52 PM
You should have really thought more about that post before you hit send.  Quit trying to constantly to White Knight for Trump and use your head for once.

Not fair....I've waited a few days before coming down on this.

Turkey politics...betting that with what we've got going on back home...in China, the election, etc., that now would be the time for them to rid themselves of the constant 'terrorist' threat coming from the South.

They told Pres. Trump...not "ask"...that he get his troops or whatever out of there, they were going to move.

Fifty (50) troops.  Specialized forces.  Our best.

Since we have the signed legal treaty with Turkey already, there was nothing we could do.

One man's Freedom Fighter is another's Terrorist.

I don't want to see a Middle Eastern war right now...and surely don't want to give the Democrats campaign fodder.

I honestly respect your take on this.  Understand it, because your background dictates it.  Wouldn't expect anything else.  It's like an arm's length to the "Never leave a buddy behind" kind of thing.

So...I did use my head.  Pragmatically, Pres. Trump had no choice here.   He'll have to respond in other ways (economically)

@txradioguy    :beer: