The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 05:29:04 PM

Title: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of viral
Post by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 05:29:04 PM
Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of viral disinformation.

By   Isaac Stanley-Becker

October 3 at 12:40 PM 


In the conspiracy-obsessed echo chambers of conservative talk radio and far-right websites, Sen. Mitt Romney has some explaining to do — answering for ties to the Ukrainian gas company that put Joe Biden’s son on its board, and accounting for conversations with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi about Republican support for impeaching President Trump.

In reality, neither claim is true. No meaningful ties exist between the Utah Republican and Burisma, and he had no such conversation with Pelosi.

The flood of baseless attacks and misleading innuendo buffeting Romney, which began after he became a rare Republican to express concern about Trump’s interactions with the Ukrainian president, serves as a preview of the viral attacks likely to be unleashed on GOP lawmakers if they buck their president during an impeachment showdown that Trump has denounced as a “coup.”

Holding the line on impeachment, particularly by pressuring Republicans to remain in lockstep behind Trump, has quickly become the core mission of a squadron of pro-Trump television personalities, talk radio hosts, conservative blogs, fringe Facebook groups and Twitter accounts. Together, these voices form an alternative worldview, built on hostility to mainstream news media and capable of shaping the information consumed by core Republican voters.

<..snip..>

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-removal-would-require-republican-dissidents-but-those-who-speak-out-become-targets-of-viral-disinformation/2019/10/03/35c35ad0-e394-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-removal-would-require-republican-dissidents-but-those-who-speak-out-become-targets-of-viral-disinformation/2019/10/03/35c35ad0-e394-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html)
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 05:30:24 PM
   Sure it's the Compost (don't shoot me), IMHO, Laboriously they make a point worth considering.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 04, 2019, 05:39:52 PM
Yes they do.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Mesaclone on October 04, 2019, 05:40:21 PM
Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of viral disinformation.

By   Isaac Stanley-Becker

October 3 at 12:40 PM 


In the conspiracy-obsessed echo chambers of conservative talk radio and far-right websites, Sen. Mitt Romney has some explaining to do — answering for ties to the Ukrainian gas company that put Joe Biden’s son on its board, and accounting for conversations with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi about Republican support for impeaching President Trump.

In reality, neither claim is true. No meaningful ties exist between the Utah Republican and Burisma, and he had no such conversation with Pelosi.

The flood of baseless attacks and misleading innuendo buffeting Romney, which began after he became a rare Republican to express concern about Trump’s interactions with the Ukrainian president, serves as a preview of the viral attacks likely to be unleashed on GOP lawmakers if they buck their president during an impeachment showdown that Trump has denounced as a “coup.”

Holding the line on impeachment, particularly by pressuring Republicans to remain in lockstep behind Trump, has quickly become the core mission of a squadron of pro-Trump television personalities, talk radio hosts, conservative blogs, fringe Facebook groups and Twitter accounts. Together, these voices form an alternative worldview, built on hostility to mainstream news media and capable of shaping the information consumed by core Republican voters.

<..snip..>

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-removal-would-require-republican-dissidents-but-those-who-speak-out-become-targets-of-viral-disinformation/2019/10/03/35c35ad0-e394-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trumps-removal-would-require-republican-dissidents-but-those-who-speak-out-become-targets-of-viral-disinformation/2019/10/03/35c35ad0-e394-11e9-b403-f738899982d2_story.html)

So, if RINO's and other NT trash take this as a chance to undermine a President they have always hated....they will be held accountable by conservative commentators and voters? OK. Sounds good.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 05:54:31 PM
So, if RINO's and other NT trash take this as a chance to undermine a President they have always hated....they will be held accountable by conservative commentators and voters? OK. Sounds good.


   Correct me if I'm wrong @Mesaclone but I think the premise of the Article is that some in the GOP (not RINO's and NT Trash) are scared to say $hit about this because they know that they would be mercilessly attacked by Trump and his Right Wing butt kissing Press, ie...Tucker, Hannity, Ingram, Rush, Levin, etc...   
   Maybe it's best to lay low and keep your powder dry.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Mesaclone on October 04, 2019, 06:01:05 PM

   Correct me if I'm wrong @Mesaclone but I think the premise of the Article is that some in the GOP (not RINO's and NT Trash) are scared to say $hit about this because they know that they would be mercilessly attacked by Trump and his Right Wing butt kissing Press, ie...Tucker, Hannity, Ingram, Rush, Levin, etc...   
   Maybe it's best to lay low and keep your powder dry.

The "some" and the RINO/NT trash I refer to are generally synonymous.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jmyrlefuller on October 04, 2019, 06:20:00 PM
The "some" and the RINO/NT trash I refer to are generally synonymous.
You prove the WaPo's point.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Mesaclone on October 04, 2019, 06:37:13 PM
You prove the WaPo's point.

If their point was that the President is clearly in the right and that GOP candidates who try to "cozy" up to the Left to undermine him will pay an electoral consequence...then I guess so.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 04, 2019, 10:35:07 PM

   Correct me if I'm wrong @Mesaclone but I think the premise of the Article is that some in the GOP (not RINO's and NT Trash) are scared to say $hit about this because they know that they would be mercilessly attacked by Trump and his Right Wing butt kissing Press, ie...Tucker, Hannity, Ingram, Rush, Levin, etc...   
   Maybe it's best to lay low and keep your powder dry.

@corbe, they are saying s**t and I'm fine with them having to answer for it.  You think they have some legitimate points?

Good grief, no wonder our side is so useless.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 11:17:23 PM
     IMHO, @Sanguine dissent of Trumpism has been all but completely wiped out in the GOP.  IT is his Party, after all.  Just look at what we considered Solid Conservative 10 months ago, now a 'nuisance', Lee, Amash, Cruz barely hanging on to any integrity, the GOP is the problem.  Everyone knew how spineless they were in 2015 when they allowed the guy they hated the most to become their nominee.  They were ripe for the picking, the Wheeler/Dealer from NYC bought em off, all of them, masterfully, I might add.  Now, we are hopefully stuck with him for the next 5 years because the alternative only interests the few here that think it's time to water this Tree of Liberty.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: truth_seeker on October 04, 2019, 11:22:42 PM
@corbe, they are saying s**t and I'm fine with them having to answer for it.  You think they have some legitimate points?

Good grief, no wonder our side is so useless.

A recent major poll indicated that Trump had 95% support with Republicans.

This site is populated by attention seeking fringies. See me, see me. I don't like the President elected by Republicans.

See me. Remember when I supported Perot, Buchanan, Brown, Johnston? See me, see me.

3rd party kookisans.

Reagan faced a kook in 1980, namely Joohn Anderson, nominally "Republican. Anderson jumped from kook party, to kook party, finally supporting Ralph Nader years later.

I confess to supporting Perot in 199, then grew the ef up politically.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 11:24:30 PM
    That Hurt @truth_seeker
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 12:01:51 AM
     IMHO, @Sanguine dissent of Trumpism has been all but completely wiped out in the GOP.  IT is his Party, after all.  Just look at what we considered Solid Conservative 10 months ago, now a 'nuisance', Lee, Amash, Cruz barely hanging on to any integrity, the GOP is the problem.  Everyone knew how spineless they were in 2015 when they allowed the guy they hated the most to become their nominee.  They were ripe for the picking, the Wheeler/Dealer from NYC bought em off, all of them, masterfully, I might add.  Now, we are hopefully stuck with him for the next 5 years because the alternative only interests the few here that think it's time to water this Tree of Liberty.

@corbe, is it more important to tout our conservative credentials and beat Trump over the head with them, or to fight the evil forces that the democrats represent? It's a very simple question and the response tells us what we should be doing and what we're wasting time on. 
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 12:20:51 AM
A recent major poll indicated that Trump had 95% support with Republicans.

This site is populated by attention seeking fringies. See me, see me. I don't like the President elected by Republicans.

See me. Remember when I supported Perot, Buchanan, Brown, Johnston? See me, see me.

3rd party kookisans.

Reagan faced a kook in 1980, namely Joohn Anderson, nominally "Republican. Anderson jumped from kook party, to kook party, finally supporting Ralph Nader years later.

I confess to supporting Perot in 199, then grew the ef up politically.

I don't have a party anymore. Was a Republican for nearly 40 years voting for Reagan in my first presidential election. Since Reagan the only vote for president I didn't have to hold my nose for was Steve Forbes in the primary. Its been all down hill from there.

No more.

May your chains fit less tightly as you vote for your lesser evil.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 02:37:13 AM
I don't have a party anymore. Was a Republican for nearly 40 years voting for Reagan in my first presidential election. Since Reagan the only vote for president I didn't have to hold my nose for was Steve Forbes in the primary. Its been all down hill from there.

No more.

May your chains fit less tightly as you vote for your lesser evil.

@DB

DITTOS. Staunch Republican from '80 to '07.
I didn't leave the Republicans, they left me. High and dry. Not a single REAL and abiding win in all that time. To this very day.

And somehow folks here think that's my fault.  *****rollingeyes*****
What a total waste of time and energy.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 02:46:26 AM
@corbe, is it more important to tout our conservative credentials and beat Trump over the head with them, or to fight the evil forces that the democrats represent? It's a very simple question and the response tells us what we should be doing and what we're wasting time on.

Neither is true. It is the application of Conservative principles, not the touting thereof... And as long as y'all are satisfied with half-measures (really not even a decimal fraction of half-measures), there is no point in arguing about the quality of the curtains and the arrangement of the deck chairs - The damn foundations are caving in. Fighting evil, my foot...

FEAR is a horrible reason to compromise.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: libertybele on October 05, 2019, 03:24:26 AM
@corbe, is it more important to tout our conservative credentials and beat Trump over the head with them, or to fight the evil forces that the democrats represent? It's a very simple question and the response tells us what we should be doing and what we're wasting time on.

The Senate is full of Republican dissidents and I feel it is very possible that they will vote to impeach and remove Trump.  This was the plan and the consensus by the members of the grand ole Country Club if Hillary didn't win.  Trump however is not going down without a fight and is going to expose corruption on both sides of the aisle.  What will be left of our Republic?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 05, 2019, 03:27:45 AM
A recent major poll indicated that Trump had 95% support with Republicans.

This site is populated by attention seeking fringies. See me, see me. I don't like the President elected by Republicans.

See me. Remember when I supported Perot, Buchanan, Brown, Johnston? See me, see me.

3rd party kookisans.

Reagan faced a kook in 1980, namely Joohn Anderson, nominally "Republican. Anderson jumped from kook party, to kook party, finally supporting Ralph Nader years later.

I confess to supporting Perot in 199, then grew the ef up politically.
I guess it depends on who you ask. After all, the science is settled and 97% of Climate Scientists agree in anthropogenic climate change, or so we are told.

Be very leery of polls which overwhelmingly support or refute anyone in the public square.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 04:02:47 AM
A recent major poll indicated that Trump had 95% support with Republicans.



@truth_seeker

Another highly pure-Trump Briefer has made claims to that effect., which I countered with showing every poll with Trump support under 90%.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,374668.msg2050794.html#msg2050794 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,374668.msg2050794.html#msg2050794)

Rather than just state "a poll".  Provide some valid proof.  Otherwise stop with the misinformation, or change your screen name.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 09:48:27 AM
Neither is true. It is the application of Conservative principles, not the touting thereof... And as long as y'all are satisfied with half-measures (really not even a decimal fraction of half-measures), there is no point in arguing about the quality of the curtains and the arrangement of the deck chairs - The damn foundations are caving in. Fighting evil, my foot...

FEAR is a horrible reason to compromise.

Yes, your response tells a lot. 
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 09:50:03 AM
@truth_seeker

Another highly pure-Trump Briefer has made claims to that effect., which I countered with showing every poll with Trump support under 90%.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,374668.msg2050794.html#msg2050794 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,374668.msg2050794.html#msg2050794)

Rather than just state "a poll".  Provide some valid proof.  Otherwise stop with the misinformation, or change your screen name.

And, so what?  What did you just prove?  What effect does this have on how we should go forward?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 10:02:17 AM
And, so what?  What did you just prove?  What effect does this have on how we should go forward?

You keep paying the protection mafia so that they will "protect" you from the greater evil all the while expecting not to be robbed.

The only way to actually stop being robbed is stop paying the protection mafia with your vote en mass. Otherwise you simply empower them to continue what they are doing.

It isn't that complicated. You have to start somewhere if it is ever going to start. Kind of like putting down the bottle and throwing it out... No amount of doing something less will free you.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 10:06:03 AM
You keep paying the protection mafia so that they will "protect" you from the greater evil all the while expecting not to be robbed.

The only way to actually stop being robbed is stop paying the protection mafia with your vote en mass. Otherwise you simply empower them to continue what they are doing.

It isn't that complicated. You have to start somewhere if it is ever going to start. Kind of like putting down the bottle and throwing it out... No amount of doing something less will free you.

Mafia?  Where is the mafia in all of this?

You keep sitting on your laurels and doing nothing you will get exactly what you deserve.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 10:24:14 AM
Mafia?  Where is the mafia in all of this?

You keep sitting on your laurels and doing nothing you will get exactly what you deserve.

LOL... I put down the bottle. That is doing something. More than many of you seem to be able to do. Until more of you do, nothing will change. It will be the endless fix of the next election being the "most important in our lifetimes", bla, bla, bla... So just one more time I'm going to take a sip to ease the pain you tell yourself... As it all sinks further and further into oblivion... And you comfort yourself by saying I'm at least "slowing" the sinking and that is something... That frankly is surrender.

At some point you have to realize the only way to change course is stop taking the sip breaking free of it.

To stop empowering those who mean you "lesser" harm.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jmyrlefuller on October 05, 2019, 10:32:10 AM
@DB

DITTOS. Staunch Republican from '80 to '07.
I didn't leave the Republicans, they left me. High and dry. Not a single REAL and abiding win in all that time. To this very day.

And somehow folks here think that's my fault.  *****rollingeyes*****
What a total waste of time and energy.
I haven't seen a single Presidential nominee I've been enthused to vote for in the entire time I've been an adult, Democrat, Republican or otherwise. I voted against Obama in '08 and '12 and it got me nowhere, and voted Libertarian (even though I hate the big-L's) as a protest vote against both Clinton and Trump in '16. I watched and saw Duncan L. Hunter, who actually has the record of supporting the kind of laws Trump claims to support, languish at 1% in the '08 elections while Rudy McRomney battled it out to see how far left they could drag the party en route to being slaughtered by Obama in the general.

Ted Cruz came the closest of any to being a candidate I could enthusiastically vote for—and even he I am slightly suspicious of because of his Harvard education (Fuller's rule of life #3: never trust anyone or anything from Harvard)—to actually making the general election. Yet the party voted for the same New York City liberals that are destroying the home state where I was born and raised.

It is as if the Republicans repeatedly choose the worst candidates in the field.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jmyrlefuller on October 05, 2019, 10:34:22 AM
A recent major poll indicated that Trump had 95% support with Republicans.

This site is populated by attention seeking fringies. See me, see me. I don't like the President elected by Republicans.

See me. Remember when I supported Perot, Buchanan, Brown, Johnston? See me, see me.

3rd party kookisans.

Reagan faced a kook in 1980, namely Joohn Anderson, nominally "Republican. Anderson jumped from kook party, to kook party, finally supporting Ralph Nader years later.

I confess to supporting Perot in 199, then grew the ef up politically.
For the last time, if you feel the need to bash anyone who doesn't support the Orange One as "kooks," and insult this board at every turn, then f'ing leave already!
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 05, 2019, 10:42:06 AM
Yes they do.

Prove it @Chosen Daughter
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 10:45:46 AM
And, so what?  What did you just prove?  What effect does this have on how we should go forward?

What does it prove?  That the Trump contingent here is overstating GOP and Conservative support for Trump.

Best scenario, Trump gets the hell out of the way, and lets Pence run in '20. 

But we all know the Narcisstic in Chief puts his ego in front of what's best for the country.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 10:46:33 AM
LOL... I put down the bottle. That is doing something. More than many of you seem to be able to do. Until more of you do, nothing will change. It will be the endless fix of the next election being the "most important in our lifetimes", bla, bla, bla... So just one more time I'm going to take a sip to ease the pain you tell yourself... As it all sinks further and further into oblivion... And you comfort yourself by saying I'm at least "slowing" the sinking and that is something... That frankly is surrender.

At some point you have to realize the only way to change course is stop taking the sip breaking free of it.

To stop empowering those who mean you "lesser" harm.

Got it.  You will sit back and watch. 
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 10:49:31 AM
What does it prove?  That the Trump contingent here is overstating GOP and Conservative support for Trump.

Best scenario, Trump gets the hell out of the way, and lets Pence run in '20. 

But we all know the Narcisstic in Chief puts his ego in front of what's best for the country.

Pence?  Pence doesn't have a snowball's chance of heck in winning.  But, you at least have a plan.  That's more than most of the NTs here.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 10:53:15 AM
Pence?  Pence doesn't have a snowball's chance of heck in winning.  But, you at least have a plan.  That's more than most of the NTs here.

No chance vs.  3 avowed socialist?  (Harris, Sanders, Warren)

I know our country elects stupidity, but they are not suicidal. 

Pence would win.....   Unless Trump drags us down until he can't
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 10:59:27 AM
So Republicans who join the rats in attempting to reverse the 16 election piss off Trump supporters.

Of course they do. What - are you gonna cry about it?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 11:01:44 AM
Got it.  You will sit back and watch.

Your "doing something" is doing more harm than good. Because the results of what you're doing are tightening our chains, likely less so than the other primary party, but tightening none the less. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is not a plan for success...

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 05, 2019, 11:02:17 AM

But we all know the Narcisstic in Chief puts his ego in front of what's best for the country.

Are you effing serious?   "What's best for the country"??   9999hair out0000 

You have just tumbled off that principled mountaintop and landed squarely in the arms of the enemies of the United States, her Constitution and the sanctity of her elections.  On the plus side -- they'll welcome you home with open arms.


Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 11:02:51 AM
Your "doing something" is doing more harm than good. Because the results of what you're doing are tightening our chains, likely less so than the other primary party, but tightening none the less. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result is not a plan for success...

Your response is a little confusing.  Supporting Trump is "doing the same thing"?  And, what are y'all doing different? 
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 05, 2019, 11:03:28 AM
So Republicans who join the rats in attempting to reverse the 16 election piss off Trump supporters.

Of course they do. What - are you gonna cry about it?

QFT
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 11:03:45 AM
Are you effing serious?   "What's best for the country"??   9999hair out0000 

You have just tumbled off that principled mountaintop and landed squarely in the arms of the enemies of the United States, her Constitution and the sanctity of her elections.  On the plus side -- they'll welcome you home with open arms.

By prefering Pence over Trump?   You really need to get off the hard drugs.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 11:04:42 AM
So Republicans who join the rats in attempting to reverse the 16 election piss off Trump supporters.

Of course they do. What - are you gonna cry about it?

I know no one personally who would "join the rats" to spite Trump. Zip. It isn't a binary choice no matter how much you demand to frame it that way.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 05, 2019, 11:05:54 AM
For the last time, if you feel the need to bash anyone who doesn't support the Orange One as "kooks," and insult this board at every turn, then f'ing leave already!

If you do not realize this coup transcends the man, even the one you hate, it is time for you to buy a vowel. 

If you will not join the fight to save this nation, maybe you should take your own "f'ing" advice.


Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Mesaclone on October 05, 2019, 11:06:08 AM
The great William F Buckley laid it all out with common sense AND intellectual honesty....."support the rightwardmost viable candidate".

The greatest peawit ever born can see that the ONLY person fitting that criteria right now is President Trump. You can opine for Pat Robertson all you want...or Mitt Romney...or Jeb Bush...or Ted Cruz...but none of them meet the Buckley rule for viability. As Trump has governed more conservatively than ANY Republican since well before Reagan...the choice is obvious to any one who understands the danger of what the Left is attempting to foist on this nation.

Now, I realize some of you consider yourselves smarter than Buckley, more moral than Mother Theresa, and more pure than Joan of Arc...but the rest of us can't hide behind that perfect moral narcissism that you wear as a rationale for sitting on your ass and letting the Left take over the nation. We can't sit on our hands and shout "a pox on both your houses" and pretend that the most conservative President of our lifetimes is "no different" from Rashida Tlaib, AOC and Elizabeth Warren.

No, the rest of us feel obligated to actually fight to stop this DNC-Lib tidal wave and though we may dislike much about the demeanor and crudity of President Trump (at times)...we also know that you don't charge into combat with a squad of "socialites, compassionate sweethearts, intellectuals and evangelist pastors" at your side. You bring fighters to a fight...and for the love of God...it should be obvious to you by now that President Trump/Conservatives...and yes those two things are now in common cause...are engaged in a fight with Socialists for the soul of the Republic.

If you're too holier than thou, or too wrapped in your own "only a perfect conservative Preacher is good enough for me"...to fight, along with the 90% of conservatives who ARE fighting for their beliefs, than you have become little more than useful idiots of the Left. When they come for the rest of us with their speech police and re-education camps, perhaps they'll leave you alone for a little longer in gratitude.

Undermining the President is, of course, your right...because you still reside in a country the rest of us are fighting to keep free. I fully realize nothing I can say will change your minds...that's not the point of this rant. The point, for God's sakes, is quit pretending that your actions reflect some form of integrity or commitment to conservatism...that's a self serving fantasy. No, your actions...and those of the Romney's, Bush's, George Will's and others are little more than self-indulgence and narcissism...pure ego.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 11:08:44 AM
For the last time, if you feel the need to bash anyone who doesn't support the Orange One as "kooks," and insult this board at every turn, then f'ing leave already!

@jmyrlefuller no one called the anti-Trumpers "kooks" on this thread.  The quote was: "Reagan faced a kook in 1980, namely Joohn Anderson, nominally "Republican. Anderson jumped from kook party, to kook party, finally supporting Ralph Nader years later."

Those who support Trump are welcome here too. 
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 11:09:04 AM
I know no one personally who would "join the rats" to spite Trump. Zip. It isn't a binary choice no matter how much you demand to frame it that way.

It would be binary again, if Trump would get the F out of the way, and let the grown ups like Pence govern.

And you are right....  I wish the powers that be of this site, would put the hammer down on these folks who scream and accuse us of aiding the left by calling out this Orange Trojan Horse.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 05, 2019, 11:09:22 AM
I know no one personally who would "join the rats" to spite Trump. Zip. It isn't a binary choice no matter how much you demand to frame it that way.

Of course it is.  You either stand with the sanctity of our Constitution and elections or you stand with the rats.  No other choice exists.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 11:09:37 AM
I know no one personally who would "join the rats" to spite Trump. Zip. It isn't a binary choice no matter how much you demand to frame it that way.

I 'demand' nothing from you. Vote for whomever you want. Don't vote at all. Bark at the moon. I couldn't care less.

I'm just amused that some of you seem offended Trump supporters would be angry at those 'republicans' who choose to join the rats in attempting to usurp the president they voted for. Which is the subject of the thread.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: austingirl on October 05, 2019, 11:14:10 AM
@corbe, is it more important to tout our conservative credentials and beat Trump over the head with them, or to fight the evil forces that the democrats represent? It's a very simple question and the response tells us what we should be doing and what we're wasting time on.

@Sanguine
 goopo
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 11:14:41 AM
Your response is a little confusing.  Supporting Trump is "doing the same thing"?  And, what are y'all doing different?

Supporting the GOP no matter what is doing the same thing over and over. Driven by the same fear of the "greater evil". Trump is currently the head of the GOP. The GOP made it so. The GOP is a train wreck by any objective standard. The only thing keeping it alive is the Dim's are bent on being a bigger train wreck and neither herd has the courage to move on.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on October 05, 2019, 11:18:20 AM
It would be binary again, if Trump would get the F out of the way, and let the grown ups like Pence govern. 

You think you don't matter now?  Wait and see what happens to future Republican/Conservatives for the Presidency if your side wins this.  You'll look back upon your days of braying in the wilderness with fond nostalgia.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 11:19:06 AM
I 'demand' nothing from you. Vote for whomever you want. Don't vote at all. Bark at the moon. I couldn't care less.

I'm just amused that some of you seem offended Trump supporters would be angry at those 'republicans' who choose to join the rats in attempting to usurp the president they voted for. Which is the subject of the thread.

No. Some of us are angry because you accuse those of us who don't support Trump on many issues as joining the rats. As far as those who actually do support the rats, e.g. voting for them, you are what you vote for. If you vote for the vile Dems then you are one.

Addition:

By the way, I said nothing of you demanding something from me. I said you demand to frame the situation in a particular way.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: austingirl on October 05, 2019, 11:21:06 AM
The great William F Buckley laid it all out with common sense AND intellectual honesty....."support the rightwardmost viable candidate".

The greatest peawit ever born can see that the ONLY person fitting that criteria right now is President Trump. You can opine for Pat Robertson all you want...or Mitt Romney...or Jeb Bush...or Ted Cruz...but none of them meet the Buckley rule for viability. As Trump has governed more conservatively than ANY Republican since well before Reagan...the choice is obvious to any one who understands the danger of what the Left is attempting to foist on this nation.

Now, I realize some of you consider yourselves smarter than Buckley, more moral than Mother Theresa, and more pure than Joan of Arc...but the rest of us can't hide behind that perfect moral narcissism that you wear as a rationale for sitting on your ass and letting the Left take over the nation. We can't sit on our hands and shout "a pox on both your houses" and pretend that the most conservative President of our lifetimes is "no different" from Rashida Tlaib, AOC and Elizabeth Warren.

No, the rest of us feel obligated to actually fight to stop this DNC-Lib tidal wave and though we may dislike much about the demeanor and crudity of President Trump (at times)...we also know that you don't charge into combat with a squad of "socialites, compassionate sweethearts, intellectuals and evangelist pastors" at your side. You bring fighters to a fight...and for the love of God...it should be obvious to you by now that President Trump/Conservatives...and yes those two things are now in common cause...are engaged in a fight with Socialists for the soul of the Republic.

If you're too holier than thou, or too wrapped in your own "only a perfect conservative Preacher is good enough for me"...to fight, along with the 90% of conservatives who ARE fighting for their beliefs, than you have become little more than useful idiots of the Left. When they come for the rest of us with their speech police and re-education camps, perhaps they'll leave you alone for a little longer in gratitude.

Undermining the President is, of course, your right...because you still reside in a country the rest of us are fighting to keep free. I fully realize nothing I can say will change your minds...that's not the point of this rant. The point, for God's sakes, is quit pretending that your actions reflect some form of integrity or commitment to conservatism...that's a self serving fantasy. No, your actions...and those of the Romney's, Bush's, George Will's and others are little more than self-indulgence and narcissism...pure ego.


Excellent post! :beer:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 11:24:33 AM
The great William F Buckley laid it all out with common sense AND intellectual honesty....."support the rightwardmost viable candidate".


 :yowsa:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 11:27:29 AM

 :yowsa:

And never in my long life and political thinking would I ever believe that a Donald J. Trump would be the most "viable"

It's a Twilight Zone / Outer Limits scenario episode on steroids.   Wish WFB was alive to comment, he might throw out a few asteriks to that quote.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 11:28:24 AM
The great William F Buckley laid it all out with common sense AND intellectual honesty....."support the rightwardmost viable candidate".

The greatest peawit ever born can see that the ONLY person fitting that criteria right now is President Trump. You can opine for Pat Robertson all you want...or Mitt Romney...or Jeb Bush...or Ted Cruz...but none of them meet the Buckley rule for viability. As Trump has governed more conservatively than ANY Republican since well before Reagan...the choice is obvious to any one who understands the danger of what the Left is attempting to foist on this nation.

Now, I realize some of you consider yourselves smarter than Buckley, more moral than Mother Theresa, and more pure than Joan of Arc...but the rest of us can't hide behind that perfect moral narcissism that you wear as a rationale for sitting on your ass and letting the Left take over the nation. We can't sit on our hands and shout "a pox on both your houses" and pretend that the most conservative President of our lifetimes is "no different" from Rashida Tlaib, AOC and Elizabeth Warren.

No, the rest of us feel obligated to actually fight to stop this DNC-Lib tidal wave and though we may dislike much about the demeanor and crudity of President Trump (at times)...we also know that you don't charge into combat with a squad of "socialites, compassionate sweethearts, intellectuals and evangelist pastors" at your side. You bring fighters to a fight...and for the love of God...it should be obvious to you by now that President Trump/Conservatives...and yes those two things are now in common cause...are engaged in a fight with Socialists for the soul of the Republic.

If you're too holier than thou, or too wrapped in your own "only a perfect conservative Preacher is good enough for me"...to fight, along with the 90% of conservatives who ARE fighting for their beliefs, than you have become little more than useful idiots of the Left. When they come for the rest of us with their speech police and re-education camps, perhaps they'll leave you alone for a little longer in gratitude.

Undermining the President is, of course, your right...because you still reside in a country the rest of us are fighting to keep free. I fully realize nothing I can say will change your minds...that's not the point of this rant. The point, for God's sakes, is quit pretending that your actions reflect some form of integrity or commitment to conservatism...that's a self serving fantasy. No, your actions...and those of the Romney's, Bush's, George Will's and others are little more than self-indulgence and narcissism...pure ego.

This needs to be cut and saved & pasted on each of these tiresome threads. Geez louise.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 11:29:04 AM
The great William F Buckley laid it all out with common sense AND intellectual honesty....."support the rightwardmost viable candidate".

The greatest peawit ever born can see that the ONLY person fitting that criteria right now is President Trump. You can opine for Pat Robertson all you want...or Mitt Romney...or Jeb Bush...or Ted Cruz...but none of them meet the Buckley rule for viability. As Trump has governed more conservatively than ANY Republican since well before Reagan...the choice is obvious to any one who understands the danger of what the Left is attempting to foist on this nation.

Now, I realize some of you consider yourselves smarter than Buckley, more moral than Mother Theresa, and more pure than Joan of Arc...but the rest of us can't hide behind that perfect moral narcissism that you wear as a rationale for sitting on your ass and letting the Left take over the nation. We can't sit on our hands and shout "a pox on both your houses" and pretend that the most conservative President of our lifetimes is "no different" from Rashida Tlaib, AOC and Elizabeth Warren.

No, the rest of us feel obligated to actually fight to stop this DNC-Lib tidal wave and though we may dislike much about the demeanor and crudity of President Trump (at times)...we also know that you don't charge into combat with a squad of "socialites, compassionate sweethearts, intellectuals and evangelist pastors" at your side. You bring fighters to a fight...and for the love of God...it should be obvious to you by now that President Trump/Conservatives...and yes those two things are now in common cause...are engaged in a fight with Socialists for the soul of the Republic.

If you're too holier than thou, or too wrapped in your own "only a perfect conservative Preacher is good enough for me"...to fight, along with the 90% of conservatives who ARE fighting for their beliefs, than you have become little more than useful idiots of the Left. When they come for the rest of us with their speech police and re-education camps, perhaps they'll leave you alone for a little longer in gratitude.

Undermining the President is, of course, your right...because you still reside in a country the rest of us are fighting to keep free. I fully realize nothing I can say will change your minds...that's not the point of this rant. The point, for God's sakes, is quit pretending that your actions reflect some form of integrity or commitment to conservatism...that's a self serving fantasy. No, your actions...and those of the Romney's, Bush's, George Will's and others are little more than self-indulgence and narcissism...pure ego.

Yet here we are crumbling away... Accepting evil by voting in fear of the greater evil... The slippery slope to a lost Constitutional Republic... Constitutional rights dying one chip at a time embraced by both parties, just one to lesser degree... And that we are told is what we should fight for. A fight that has already been surrendered to block a larger surrender...
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 11:30:42 AM
This needs to be cut and saved & pasted on each of these tiresome threads. Geez louise.

Yes, it should.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 11:33:01 AM
I don't have a party anymore. Was a Republican for nearly 40 years voting for Reagan in my first presidential election. Since Reagan the only vote for president I didn't have to hold my nose for was Steve Forbes in the primary. Its been all down hill from there.

No more.

May your chains fit less tightly as you vote for your lesser evil.

I liked Steve Forbes and even sent him some money. I knew W was a empty suit phony, I tried to warn everyone.  Steve would have
been a much better president then that neocon Bush. Oh and I am very proud of my vote for Trump and I even sent him some money in
2016 and I'll do that again in 2020.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: austingirl on October 05, 2019, 11:37:03 AM
This needs to be cut and saved & pasted on each of these tiresome threads. Geez louise.

Great idea!
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 11:41:33 AM
.... It will be the endless fix of the next election being the "most important in our lifetimes", bla, bla, bla... ....
To stop empowering those who mean you "lesser" harm.

If you have not noticed that the Democrats have morphed into full flown communists that intend to take over the country anyway they can
and that the only one standing in their way is President Trump than there is no helping you. Today's Democrats are not your father's
Democrats.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 11:48:45 AM
If you have not noticed that the Democrats have morphed into full flown communists that intend to take over the country anyway they can
and that the only one standing in their way is President Trump than there is no helping you. Today's Democrats are not your father's
Democrats.

That is why as badly as I dislike Trump, I will dress up in November 2020, and vote for him. 

(http://magusintl.com/images/products/Limited-Use-Splash-Contamination-Suit-sm.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 05, 2019, 11:49:19 AM
@corbe, is it more important to tout our conservative credentials and beat Trump over the head with them, or to fight the evil forces that the democrats represent? It's a very simple question and the response tells us what we should be doing and what we're wasting time on. 

   The latter is the most important, of course, @Sanguine~Beat the evil forces.  It's just that sometimes I can't see the Good in the GOP/Trump brand anymore, it seems utter chaos and drama, more often than not-self inflicted.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 11:53:24 AM
That is why as badly as I dislike Trump, I will dress up in November 2020, and vote for him. 

(http://magusintl.com/images/products/Limited-Use-Splash-Contamination-Suit-sm.jpg)

As much as I dislike W I too voted for him. The only GOP candidate I could not bring myself to vote for was Amnesty McCain. That dear
GOP was simply a bridge to far for me, since securing the border and sending illegals home is my number 1 issue.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 11:53:54 AM
   The latter is the most important, of course, @Sanguine~Beat the evil forces.  It's just that sometimes I can't see the Good in the GOP/Trump brand anymore, it seems utter chaos and drama, more often than not-self inflicted.

After winnowing out the chaos & drama manufactured by the left & rat media I just don't see it.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 05, 2019, 12:04:08 PM
   For the sake of non argument @skeeter I'll just admit that a bit of my TDS is showing.  But talking to Foreign Leaders about investigating your political opponents AND getting caught is just beyond stupid and every time I hear a Trumper say 'well hellary or obummer did it too' I want to pull my hair out.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 12:25:01 PM
That is why as badly as I dislike Trump, I will dress up in November 2020, and vote for him. 

(http://magusintl.com/images/products/Limited-Use-Splash-Contamination-Suit-sm.jpg)

 888high58888
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 12:30:56 PM
   For the sake of non argument @skeeter I'll just admit that a bit of my TDS is showing.  But talking to Foreign Leaders about investigating your political opponents AND getting caught is just beyond stupid and every time I hear a Trumper say 'well hellary or obummer did it too' I want to pull my hair out.

Good grief, @corbe - do you think Biden shouldn't be investigated?  And, if that's not what you think, how do you think we/them should go about getting him investigated?  Remember, there were several investigations, trials and convictions re: Burisma in Ukraine.  What the hell is wrong with asking for information, and doing so with a treaty that covers it in place?  And, also, remember, at the time of this call, Biden had not announced his candidacy, so was technically not a candidate.  I really don't understand the complaints.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Mesaclone on October 05, 2019, 12:33:04 PM
   For the sake of non argument @skeeter I'll just admit that a bit of my TDS is showing.  But talking to Foreign Leaders about investigating your political opponents AND getting caught is just beyond stupid and every time I hear a Trumper say 'well hellary or obummer did it too' I want to pull my hair out.

If the Dems corrupt acts in the 2016 campaign AND Biden's nepotistic behavior were epicentered in the Ukraine...and they were...talking to the Ukrainians about it seems like the ONLY rational action. Its become clear there was no quid pro quo, so what law was violated in asking one nation to investigate a corruption case that was...literally...part of election interference and a coup'de'etat attempt in the United States? How else would these things be investigated if not at the behest of the Ukrainian President?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 12:33:43 PM
   For the sake of non argument @skeeter I'll just admit that a bit of my TDS is showing.  But talking to Foreign Leaders about investigating your political opponents AND getting caught is just beyond stupid and every time I hear a Trumper say 'well hellary or obummer did it too' I want to pull my hair out.

Thats really not what happened, @corbe.

And, with all due respect, this attitude is indicative of the old GOP and is why I'm so glad we've moved on - allowing the left to hold them by the nose while kicking their ass. Hillary and Obama DID do what they are accusing Trump of doing, while Trump did absolutely nothing illegal or even untoward.

The GOP, FBI or CIA won't do anything about it so Trump is. I'm OK with it.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 12:36:14 PM
   For the sake of non argument @skeeter I'll just admit that a bit of my TDS is showing.  But talking to Foreign Leaders about investigating your political opponents AND getting caught is just beyond stupid and every time I hear a Trumper say 'well hellary or obummer did it too' I want to pull my hair out.

@corbe

Perhaps you can answer the question I had for Romney?

Perhaps Mutt can explain why an energy company in the Ukraine would pay Hunter Beden nearly $90,000 a MONTH to be on it's board.
Recalling that Hunter Beden has zero experience in energy and zero knowledge of the Ukraine. Oh and this was shortly after the U.S.
Navy booted him out for using cocaine.  So Mutt, why did they hire Hunter?


I am looking forward to reading your answer.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 05, 2019, 12:39:08 PM
   Yes, @Sanguine Biden should be investigated, as well as obummer, hellary, holder, lynch, kerry they are all a bunch of snakes.  What I have trouble wrapping my head around is that with all the tools in his toolbox as POTUS, he feels he must resort to asking Foreign Leaders to do it.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 12:41:34 PM
   Yes, @Sanguine Biden should be investigated, as well as obummer, hellary, holder, lynch, kerry they are all a bunch of snakes.  What I have trouble wrapping my head around is that with all the tools in his toolbox as POTUS, he feels he must resort to asking Foreign Leaders to do it.

Wasn't that where the information was?  And, what is wrong with asking a foreign leader?  Sorry, I'm being dense, but I don't get it.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 12:43:51 PM
   Yes, @Sanguine Biden should be investigated, as well as obummer, hellary, holder, lynch, kerry they are all a bunch of snakes.  What I have trouble wrapping my head around is that with all the tools in his toolbox as POTUS, he feels he must resort to asking Foreign Leaders to do it.

You do know that we have a treaty with the Ukraine and that treaty requires us to help them with their corruption and they are required to help us with ours. So what is wrong with asking them (Ukraine) for help investigating the Bidens?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 05, 2019, 12:46:32 PM
   I've never seen you dense @Sanguine more likely it's just a bit of stubbornness on my part.  As things stand today, I too will be voting for Trump in 2020, butthurt and all.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 12:55:48 PM
Wasn't that where the information was?  And, what is wrong with asking a foreign leader?  Sorry, I'm being dense, but I don't get it.

If it is true that the previous US administration blackmailed the Ukraine into not investigating serious corruption in their country involving the US vice president's son then I believe it is entirely appropriate to reverse that as a point of fundamental policy by the US government.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 01:01:11 PM
If it is true that the previous US administration blackmailed the Ukraine into not investigating serious corruption in their country involving the US vice president's son then I believe it is entirely appropriate to reverse that as a point of fundamental policy by the US government.

Not sure what you're saying here.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
   I've never seen you dense @Sanguine more likely it's just a bit of stubbornness on my part.  As things stand today, I too will be voting for Trump in 2020, butthurt and all.

Thanks, Corbe.  Good to know.

And, that stubbornness is counter-productive right now, IMHO.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
   I've never seen you dense @Sanguine more likely it's just a bit of stubbornness on my part.  As things stand today, I too will be voting for Trump in 2020, butthurt and all.

Thanks, Corbe.  Good to know.

And, that stubbornness is counter-productive right now, IMHO.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 01:02:41 PM
If it is true that the previous US administration blackmailed the Ukraine into not investigating serious corruption in their country involving the US vice president's son then I believe it is entirely appropriate to reverse that as a point of fundamental policy by the US government.

@DB

If it is true? Maybe you would like to take a shot at answering the question above that @corbe is ignoring. IMHO there can only be an "if"
if there is a reasonable answer to my question.


New page, so quesion is no longer above, I'll post it here

Perhaps you can answer the question I had for Romney?

Perhaps Mutt can explain why an energy company in the Ukraine would pay Hunter Beden nearly $90,000 a MONTH to be on it's board.
Recalling that Hunter Beden has zero experience in energy and zero knowledge of the Ukraine. Oh and this was shortly after the U.S.
Navy booted him out for using cocaine.  So Mutt, why did they hire Hunter?

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 01:05:12 PM
If it is true that the previous US administration blackmailed the Ukraine into not investigating serious corruption in their country involving the US vice president's son then I believe it is entirely appropriate to reverse that as a point of fundamental policy by the US government.

If you are implying that Trump did the same thing as Biden or Obama or Hillary, then you're flat wrong.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: EdJames on October 05, 2019, 01:10:16 PM
Be smart, Ladies and Germs....

Don't adopt the "language of the enemy!"

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgReurGebJg#)

Description:

Nations survive and thrive when they're able to communicate clearly and honestly, and they can just as easily fall to pieces when dishonest actors pollute or confuse language as a means of obtaining their ends.

We're swiftly reaching a point in which the two sides of the ideological fence can hold nearly polar opposite definitions of the exact same words or concepts... a point in which true communication becomes impossible, and the prospect of very real violence looms on the horizon.

The men who built this nation took great pains to establish order and structure, institutions and codes of conduct that allow for harmony and balance. Many take it for granted that peaceful civilization is simply how things are, forgetting the courage, devotion, and intellectual energy required to create and maintain such a state of being. The more we turn our backs on their collective wisdom and rush to embrace a modernist viewpoint that stands at odds with the entirety of human history, the closer we stumble to a complete societal breakdown, and the law of the jungle.

This video explains why clarity of thought and speech may be the key to diffusing this time bomb, and how accurate communication is the best means of countering those forces seeking to destroy the foundational concepts behind western civilization.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 01:10:50 PM
@DB

If it is true? Maybe you would like to take a shot at answering the question above that @corbe is ignoring. IMHO there can only be an "if"
if there is a reasonable answer to my question.


New page, so quesion is no longer above, I'll post it here

Perhaps you can answer the question I had for Romney?

Perhaps Mutt can explain why an energy company in the Ukraine would pay Hunter Beden nearly $90,000 a MONTH to be on it's board.
Recalling that Hunter Beden has zero experience in energy and zero knowledge of the Ukraine. Oh and this was shortly after the U.S.
Navy booted him out for using cocaine.  So Mutt, why did they hire Hunter?


I believe it is very likely true that the previous US administration did that.

But I don't know it to the level of it being a fact. The available media sources are not entirely reliable no matter their political bent.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 05, 2019, 01:17:26 PM
Be smart, Ladies and Germs....

Don't adopt the "language of the enemy!"

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgReurGebJg#)

Description:

Nations survive and thrive when they're able to communicate clearly and honestly, and they can just as easily fall to pieces when dishonest actors pollute or confuse language as a means of obtaining their ends.

We're swiftly reaching a point in which the two sides of the ideological fence can hold nearly polar opposite definitions of the exact same words or concepts... a point in which true communication becomes impossible, and the prospect of very real violence looms on the horizon.

The men who built this nation took great pains to establish order and structure, institutions and codes of conduct that allow for harmony and balance. Many take it for granted that peaceful civilization is simply how things are, forgetting the courage, devotion, and intellectual energy required to create and maintain such a state of being. The more we turn our backs on their collective wisdom and rush to embrace a modernist viewpoint that stands at odds with the entirety of human history, the closer we stumble to a complete societal breakdown, and the law of the jungle.

This video explains why clarity of thought and speech may be the key to diffusing this time bomb, and how accurate communication is the best means of countering those forces seeking to destroy the foundational concepts behind western civilization.

Thanks, Ed.  Downloading it now.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 01:18:22 PM
If you are implying that Trump did the same thing as Biden or Obama or Hillary, then you're flat wrong.

I don't understand what your point is.

Are talking about US government corruption protecting Biden's son or foreign governments providing dirt on US politicians/relatives?

If it is the US corruption there was no implication on my part comparing Trump to your list. Quite the opposite. If it is getting dirt from foreign governments it is what it is. If there is truthful information of a politician's bad behavior in another country it is fair game. Especially if it is criminal. In that case it is hypocrisy to say its bad when they do it and good when we do.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 01:19:52 PM
If their point was that the President is clearly in the right and that GOP candidates who try to "cozy" up to the Left to undermine him will pay an electoral consequence...then I guess so.

@Mesaclone

And you ain't by yourself.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 01:20:38 PM
Be smart, Ladies and Germs....

Don't adopt the "language of the enemy!"


Did I do that?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jpsb on October 05, 2019, 01:26:51 PM
I believe it is very likely true that the previous US administration did that.

But I don't know it to the level of it being a fact. The available media sources are not entirely reliable no matter their political bent.

Yes, exactly, I don't know it for a fact either but it seems very likely to me. Which is why we need an investigation and why Trump is asking
the Ukraine to do one. Thanks for responding.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 01:28:03 PM
     IMHO, @Sanguine dissent of Trumpism has been all but completely wiped out in the GOP.  IT is his Party, after all.  Just look at what we considered Solid Conservative 10 months ago, now a 'nuisance', Lee, Amash, Cruz barely hanging on to any integrity, the GOP is the problem.  Everyone knew how spineless they were in 2015 when they allowed the guy they hated the most to become their nominee.

@corbe

Yeah,DAMN those free elections! Who the hell do those voters think they are that they can just vote for whoever they want?

Dam buncha hippy freaks babblin all that nonsense bout free speech and free thoughts,that's what they are. We should sic our dawgs on 'em!

I am thinking about changing my tagline to read "If voting fur da party insider wuz gud nough for mah pappy and his sister/wife,hit's gud nough for me!" in order to show my loyalty. Wadda ya think?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 01:33:52 PM
Mafia?  Where is the mafia in all of this?

You keep sitting on your laurels and doing nothing you will get exactly what you deserve.

@Sanguine

Some people just ain't happy unless they have something to bitch and whine about.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 01:36:57 PM
So just one more time I'm going to take a sip to ease the pain you tell yourself... As it all sinks further and further into oblivion... And you comfort yourself by saying I'm at
Quote
LOL... I put down the bottle. That is doing something. More than many of you seem to be able to do. Until more of you do, nothing will change. It will be the endless fix of the next election being the "most important in our lifetimes", bla, bla, bla...

@DB  @Sanguine

Each election IS the most important one in our lifetimes. That is the NATURE of elections. The fact that you and others can't seem to understand that is telling.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 01:43:32 PM
No chance vs.  3 avowed socialist?  (Harris, Sanders, Warren)

I know our country elects stupidity, but they are not suicidal. 

Pence would win.....   Unless Trump drags us down until he can't

@catfish1957

Step away from the bong!

That is so wrong it is laughable.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 01:48:12 PM
@DB  @Sanguine

Each election IS the most important one in our lifetimes. That is the NATURE of elections. The fact that you and others can't seem to understand that is telling.

(https://theaimn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/mouse-on-wheel.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 01:50:28 PM
Are you effing serious?   "What's best for the country"??   9999hair out0000 

 

@Right_in_Virginia

Clearly more RINO's,if we are to believe the NT's.

The truth of the matter is that none of these people are actual conservatives. They are Party People and they will NEVER forgive Trump for taking the crown away from whoever their beloved loser was,and then,to top it off,but accomplishing more REAL conservative wins with things like judicial appointments and actually getting some of the border wall built,than any President in history.

Flat out,they all hate Trump because he is not a life-long Party Comrade,yet has accomplished more Pro-American and conservative things than any RINO in history.

This is unforgivable to the NT's because it exposes them as the fools they have always been.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 02:01:00 PM
The great William F Buckley laid it all out with common sense AND intellectual honesty....."support the rightwardmost viable candidate".

The greatest peawit ever born can see that the ONLY person fitting that criteria right now is President Trump. You can opine for Pat Robertson all you want...or Mitt Romney...or Jeb Bush...or Ted Cruz...but none of them meet the Buckley rule for viability. As Trump has governed more conservatively than ANY Republican since well before Reagan...the choice is obvious to any one who understands the danger of what the Left is attempting to foist on this nation.

Now, I realize some of you consider yourselves smarter than Buckley, more moral than Mother Theresa, and more pure than Joan of Arc...but the rest of us can't hide behind that perfect moral narcissism that you wear as a rationale for sitting on your ass and letting the Left take over the nation. We can't sit on our hands and shout "a pox on both your houses" and pretend that the most conservative President of our lifetimes is "no different" from Rashida Tlaib, AOC and Elizabeth Warren.

No, the rest of us feel obligated to actually fight to stop this DNC-Lib tidal wave and though we may dislike much about the demeanor and crudity of President Trump (at times)...we also know that you don't charge into combat with a squad of "socialites, compassionate sweethearts, intellectuals and evangelist pastors" at your side. You bring fighters to a fight...and for the love of God...it should be obvious to you by now that President Trump/Conservatives...and yes those two things are now in common cause...are engaged in a fight with Socialists for the soul of the Republic.

If you're too holier than thou, or too wrapped in your own "only a perfect conservative Preacher is good enough for me"...to fight, along with the 90% of conservatives who ARE fighting for their beliefs, than you have become little more than useful idiots of the Left. When they come for the rest of us with their speech police and re-education camps, perhaps they'll leave you alone for a little longer in gratitude.

Undermining the President is, of course, your right...because you still reside in a country the rest of us are fighting to keep free. I fully realize nothing I can say will change your minds...that's not the point of this rant. The point, for God's sakes, is quit pretending that your actions reflect some form of integrity or commitment to conservatism...that's a self serving fantasy. No, your actions...and those of the Romney's, Bush's, George Will's and others are little more than self-indulgence and narcissism...pure ego.

@Mesaclone

Excellent post!

Not that it will have any effect of the self-righteous hacks as they do their little "superiority dances" over the ashes of our Republic.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 02:02:33 PM
It would be binary again, if Trump would get the F out of the way, and let the grown ups like Pence govern.

And you are right....  I wish the powers that be of this site, would put the hammer down on these folks who scream and accuse us of aiding the left by calling out this Orange Trojan Horse.

@catfish1957

Maybe you should send Jim Rob a PM about this outrage?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Bigun on October 05, 2019, 02:05:03 PM
I'm so sick of this never ending  :bsflag: I could 9999hair out0000!

Grow the F up!  Every damned one of you!
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 02:09:27 PM
You think you don't matter now?  Wait and see what happens to future Republican/Conservatives for the Presidency if your side wins this.  You'll look back upon your days of braying in the wilderness with fond nostalgia.

@Right_in_Virginia

Sometimes I think what they fear most is not having anything to bitch about. If Trump is re-elected and is successful at accomplishing what their beloved RINO's were never able to do,they will not only no longer have anything to bitch about,but it will be proven to them they were fools all along to support the RINO's.

Calling someone a fool is one thing. PROVING it to them is something hard for them to overlook,and they are going to hold it against you forever.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 05, 2019, 02:30:25 PM
Tucker Carlson criticizes Trump's Ukraine call

By Marty Johnson - 10/05/19 02:05 PM EDT
 

Tucker Carlson criticized President Trump's phone call with the president of Ukraine in an op-ed piece for the Daily Caller on Thursday.

The Daily Caller co-founder and Fox News host, however, doesn't support the Democrats' ongoing impeachment inquiry.

In an op-ed written with fellow Daily Caller co-founder Neil Patel, Carlson wrote that "Donald Trump should not have been on the phone with a foreign head of state encouraging another country to investigate his political opponent, Joe Biden."

"Some Republicans are trying, but there’s no way to spin this as a good idea," he added.

<..snip..>

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/464506-tucker-carlson-criticizes-trumps-ukraine-call (https://thehill.com/homenews/media/464506-tucker-carlson-criticizes-trumps-ukraine-call)
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 02:41:59 PM
I don't understand what your point is.

Are talking about US government corruption protecting Biden's son or foreign governments providing dirt on US politicians/relatives?

If it is the US corruption there was no implication on my part comparing Trump to your list. Quite the opposite. If it is getting dirt from foreign governments it is what it is. If there is truthful information of a politician's bad behavior in another country it is fair game. Especially if it is criminal. In that case it is hypocrisy to say its bad when they do it and good when we do.

I guess the only way, then, to avoid being a 'hypocrite' is to aver our eyes in the face of evidence (in this case, a video confession) that a past administration committed acts of corruption.

We'll just trust the other side to police their own when they retake the WH, presumably.

That'll work.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 03:07:25 PM
I haven't seen a single Presidential nominee I've been enthused to vote for in the entire time I've been an adult, Democrat, Republican or otherwise. I voted against Obama in '08 and '12 and it got me nowhere, and voted Libertarian (even though I hate the big-L's) as a protest vote against both Clinton and Trump in '16. I watched and saw Duncan L. Hunter, who actually has the record of supporting the kind of laws Trump claims to support, languish at 1% in the '08 elections while Rudy McRomney battled it out to see how far left they could drag the party en route to being slaughtered by Obama in the general.

Ted Cruz came the closest of any to being a candidate I could enthusiastically vote for—and even he I am slightly suspicious of because of his Harvard education (Fuller's rule of life #3: never trust anyone or anything from Harvard)—to actually making the general election. Yet the party voted for the same New York City liberals that are destroying the home state where I was born and raised.

It is as if the Republicans repeatedly choose the worst candidates in the field.

Just about the same thing. And it was over what they did to Duncan Hunter in the primary that drove me off. I have not voted for a Republican since... Almost got to the last time around. I would have voted for Cruz.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 03:19:56 PM
So Republicans who join the rats in attempting to reverse the 16 election piss off Trump supporters.


It shouldn't.
I got nothing to do with all that except non-support.

Would I vote for him? Absolutely not.
Would I have him impeached? Sure, if he has committed a crime, and there is evidence to prove it - And I would say the same of Reagan himself.
Would I have him impeached according to what I know now? No, but I will not defend him either.
Not my circus, not my monkey.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 05, 2019, 03:23:43 PM
Be smart, Ladies and Germs....

Don't adopt the "language of the enemy!"

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgReurGebJg#)

Description:

Nations survive and thrive when they're able to communicate clearly and honestly, and they can just as easily fall to pieces when dishonest actors pollute or confuse language as a means of obtaining their ends.

We're swiftly reaching a point in which the two sides of the ideological fence can hold nearly polar opposite definitions of the exact same words or concepts... a point in which true communication becomes impossible, and the prospect of very real violence looms on the horizon.

The men who built this nation took great pains to establish order and structure, institutions and codes of conduct that allow for harmony and balance. Many take it for granted that peaceful civilization is simply how things are, forgetting the courage, devotion, and intellectual energy required to create and maintain such a state of being. The more we turn our backs on their collective wisdom and rush to embrace a modernist viewpoint that stands at odds with the entirety of human history, the closer we stumble to a complete societal breakdown, and the law of the jungle.

This video explains why clarity of thought and speech may be the key to diffusing this time bomb, and how accurate communication is the best means of countering those forces seeking to destroy the foundational concepts behind western civilization.

Whoa.  Didn't watch the entire thing.  I will but just a comment on the first portion.  Excellent.  Shows how American society has fallen from the Founders protection of free speech.  The odd one out, or the one who will push back against the will of a certain group. 

What is happening in America is a divide line.  Either for us or against us with certain talking points and if anyone has their own opinion they are to be shunned.  What is worse is that we are including foreign governments.  Pitting them against one party or the other, which will I believe in the end turn nations against us.  Do they want to be pawns in our political process? 

If Trump truly was just investigating corruption why now during campaign season?  Why didn't he immediately investigate Hillary too.  He only brings it up when Hillary is criticizing him.  He should have taken care of the email situation right away while it was relevant.  After months of "lock her up".
But no, he immediately honored her presence at Inauguration.  Also publicly saying she had suffered enough.

I don't know what to make of the situation.  Both parties have strayed so far.  For the longest time they have been drawing American citizens into their political divide.  Not working to maintain the very important Foundation that was given to us so long ago.  We are drawn into the political fight instead of working to make this nation good and right.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 05, 2019, 03:26:19 PM
It shouldn't.
I got nothing to do with all that except non-support.

Would I vote for him? Absolutely not.
Would I have him impeached? Sure, if he has committed a crime, and there is evidence to prove it - And I would say the same of Reagan himself.
Would I have him impeached according to what I know now? No, but I will not defend him either.
Not my circus, not my monkey.

@roamer_1 as always simple and true.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 03:27:30 PM
It would be binary again, if Trump would get the F out of the way, and let the grown ups like Pence govern.

And you are right....  I wish the powers that be of this site, would put the hammer down on these folks who scream and accuse us of aiding the left by calling out this Orange Trojan Horse.

I think that is more or less right. Would I vote for Pence? Yes... But not as quickly as I would have back in the TEA Party days. I might have to get talked into it, but it could happen.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 03:29:17 PM
It shouldn't.
I got nothing to do with all that except non-support.

   
Not my circus, not my monkey.

@roamer_1

My apologies. I thought you were an American.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 05, 2019, 03:29:52 PM
That is why as badly as I dislike Trump, I will dress up in November 2020, and vote for him. 

(http://magusintl.com/images/products/Limited-Use-Splash-Contamination-Suit-sm.jpg)

ROTFL!  I don't know if the suit is enough.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 03:31:49 PM
It shouldn't.
I got nothing to do with all that except non-support.

Would I vote for him? Absolutely not.
Would I have him impeached? Sure, if he has committed a crime, and there is evidence to prove it - And I would say the same of Reagan himself.
Would I have him impeached according to what I know now? No, but I will not defend him either.
Not my circus, not my monkey.

As is your prerogative.

It's those who wail about being abused by Trump supporters simply because they've declared they'll help the rats to toss him out office who make me chuckle.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 03:32:25 PM
If you have not noticed that the Democrats have morphed into full flown communists that intend to take over the country anyway they can
and that the only one standing in their way is President Trump than there is no helping you. Today's Democrats are not your father's
Democrats.

It don't matter what they are. It matters what y'all are.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 05, 2019, 03:35:29 PM
It don't matter what they are. It matters what y'all are.

@roamer_1

Didn't do much thinking about that one before you hit the "post" button,did ya?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 05, 2019, 03:41:00 PM
@roamer_1

Didn't do much thinking about that one before you hit the "post" button,did ya?

Actually it makes complete sense. Sorry you didn't understand it.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 03:42:41 PM
Actually it makes complete sense. Sorry you didn't understand it.

If "ya'll" means all (as in you too) then yeah, it does make sense.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 03:53:34 PM
As is your prerogative.

It's those who wail about being abused by Trump supporters simply because they've declared they'll help the rats to toss him out office who make me chuckle.

I can live with that.

Maybe next time... er, well, the time after that.  :beer:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 03:58:22 PM
@roamer_1

Didn't do much thinking about that one before you hit the "post" button,did ya?

Meant it precisely, @sneakypete
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 04:06:27 PM
If "ya'll" means all (as in you too) then yeah, it does make sense.

No, it means 'all y'all' who want support for Tumpy, versus all us all who ain't going to go there.
It matters what y'all are doing, not what the Dems are doing.

It is easy to point at the boogey-man.
It is a little harder to look at what y'all are supporting, and tell me why I, or rather, someone, should join you in it.

That is what I mean.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 05, 2019, 04:08:48 PM
No, it means 'all y'all' who want support for Tumpy, versus all us all who ain't going to go there.
It matters what y'all are doing, not what the Dems are doing.

It is easy to point at the boogey-man.
It is a little harder to look at what y'all are supporting, and tell me why I, or rather, someone, should join you in it.

That is what I mean.

This is a "if you aren't for us, you are against us" situation.  Your either all in or a deserter.

https://morningmail.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/firing-squad-e1427400023975.jpg
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 05, 2019, 04:08:59 PM
@roamer_1 as always simple and true.

@Chosen Daughter
 :beer: :seeya:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Chosen Daughter on October 05, 2019, 04:37:58 PM
I haven't seen a single Presidential nominee I've been enthused to vote for in the entire time I've been an adult, Democrat, Republican or otherwise. I voted against Obama in '08 and '12 and it got me nowhere, and voted Libertarian (even though I hate the big-L's) as a protest vote against both Clinton and Trump in '16. I watched and saw Duncan L. Hunter, who actually has the record of supporting the kind of laws Trump claims to support, languish at 1% in the '08 elections while Rudy McRomney battled it out to see how far left they could drag the party en route to being slaughtered by Obama in the general.

Ted Cruz came the closest of any to being a candidate I could enthusiastically vote for—and even he I am slightly suspicious of because of his Harvard education (Fuller's rule of life #3: never trust anyone or anything from Harvard)—to actually making the general election. Yet the party voted for the same New York City liberals that are destroying the home state where I was born and raised.

It is as if the Republicans repeatedly choose the worst candidates in the field.

So true.  Same with me.  I am so tired of it.  But they don't pick the candidates based on what Americans want or need.  It is based on money and lobbying.  They (political donors, corporations) pick the candidates they are willing to support based on their political agenda.

Then we are forced to support whoever they pick in a two party system.  If we stray to third party we are helping the other side.  Thus lesser of evils.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 05, 2019, 04:56:02 PM
No, it means 'all y'all' who want support for Tumpy, versus all us all who ain't going to go there.
It matters what y'all are doing, not what the Dems are doing.

It is easy to point at the boogey-man.
It is a little harder to look at what y'all are supporting, and tell me why I, or rather, someone, should join you in it.

That is what I mean.

Then you're wrong.

First heal thyself & live with your own choices. I am just ducky with my own.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 05, 2019, 05:54:37 PM
Actually it makes complete sense. Sorry you didn't understand it.

I know it did.   Hate to tell him never to go Full Loon.   You never go Full Loon.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/05/17/69/05176913e22797dadf4a525c4fdcf0da.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 06, 2019, 07:43:15 AM
If you have not noticed that the Democrats have morphed into full flown communists that intend to take over the country anyway they can
and that the only one standing in their way is President Trump than there is no helping you. Today's Democrats are not your father's
Democrats.
Sure, I have noticed that the Democrats have gone full blown Communist in their rhetoric. Totalitarian all the way, but it is only the consistent leftward morphing of the GOP to "pick up the moderate voters" which has enabled this insanity. The more the GOP has morphed to the Left, the less consistent contrast between self-anointed "conservatives" of the GOP and the Communists, so the Communists get away with this.

In the meantime, the Constitutional Conservatives who would love a return to Original Intent are treated like bastard stepchildren, and have been since Goldwater.

Because of machinations within the GOP, I didn't even get to vote in the GOP primary for the candidate in 2016--North Dakota did not have one. That was the last straw for this old pack mule.
Knowing full well that Trump would get this State's electoral votes (and thus not suffering from Hillaryphobia), I voted my conscience, for a guy who represented the only Party to have the Constitution of the United States as its platform.

Not even the corrupt Obama Adminstration would chance new gun control measures as this one has, propelled by an incident we hear little factual about, investigated by a bought and paid for police department in thrall to casino interests, a demonstrably corrupt FBI, and the BATFE which has ever been on the lunatic totalitarian fringe, and then only sketchily reported so that anyone who might have more or correct info about the incident could be dismissed as "conspiracy theorists".
America is still sinking--the wall isn't built, Hillary isn't in irons, Obamacare lives, the corruption in Federal agencies is still rampant.
Just because it isn't going down as fast as it would if the Democrats were scuttling it, kindly don't tell me drilling holes in the Ship of State will let the water out.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 06, 2019, 07:49:45 AM
It don't matter what they are. It matters what y'all are.
Yep. Claiming to be Conservative when policies ever drift leftward lets the competition get away with being far less so.
This is where the GOP morph to the Left has been a grievous error from the start.

In the meantime, powers usurped by (Liberty lost to) the Federal Government have grown beyond anything my grandparents would have stood for.
Right along with the National Debt.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 06, 2019, 07:58:14 AM
This is a "if you aren't for us, you are against us" situation.  Your either all in or a deserter.

https://morningmail.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/firing-squad-e1427400023975.jpg
Is it?

What do you do when all the options offered are against the Republic?

At what point does the 'lesser evil' become repugnant enough that you refuse to give it the support of your vote?

Because by then, evil will have prevailed, just in shorter steps.

What I am in favor of is an Originalist Interpretation of the Constitution, which would necessarily reduce Federal programs and employment by an incredible percentage, and put a tremendous amount of power back in the hands of the People and the several States, where it belongs--an option neither major Party is considering, because it would shrink the influence and concentrated power those entities wield, just as it would shrink the federal Government.

So whether you want Gambino to run your protection or Lucchese, it all boils down to the same thing. The rackets own you, and from the cheap seats, the DNC and RNC are rackets. Neither one is making us any more free.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: XenaLee on October 06, 2019, 09:02:03 AM
Is it?

What do you do when all the options offered are against the Republic?

At what point does the 'lesser evil' become repugnant enough that you refuse to give it the support of your vote?

Because by then, evil will have prevailed, just in shorter steps.

What I am in favor of is an Originalist Interpretation of the Constitution, which would necessarily reduce Federal programs and employment by an incredible percentage, and put a tremendous amount of power back in the hands of the People and the several States, where it belongs--an option neither major Party is considering, because it would shrink the influence and concentrated power those entities wield, just as it would shrink the federal Government.

So whether you want Gambino to run your protection or Lucchese, it all boils down to the same thing. The rackets own you, and from the cheap seats, the DNC and RNC are rackets. Neither one is making us any more free.

I disagree.   Currently, the economy is booming, no thanks to the radical leftist Democrats.   If the RNC were the exact same as the DNC....ie if the Republicans were exactly like the Democrats....the economy would be stagnated, unemployment up = people out of work, taxes would be up, corporations would be smothered with taxes and regulations and we'd be back to that Carter-era Misery Index.   A booming economy makes Americans "more free", as we are seeing. 

Hell, all one has to do is listen to just one of the idiots in the Twit Squad.... or one of the Democrat candidates for president.... to see how radically different the two parties are.   That's not to say there are not moles, traitors and rats embedded within the GOP.  But the results of non-Democrat rule are all around us in real time. 

I posit that thinking like that (that the two parties are both the same) is exactly what will hand the power back to the rats.   And if/when that happens...

game over.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 06, 2019, 10:24:34 AM
Yep. Claiming to be Conservative when policies ever drift leftward lets the competition get away with being far less so.
This is where the GOP morph to the Left has been a grievous error from the start.

In the meantime, powers usurped by (Liberty lost to) the Federal Government have grown beyond anything my grandparents would have stood for.
Right along with the National Debt.

@Smokin Joe

Ok,now explain how Trump,who just became a political candidate for the first time 4 years ago,is responsible for everything the RINO's have been doing since Eisenhower,while you are your fellow "Uber Americans" are REFUSING to help him try to restore some of the ground we have lost?

Maybe if we had elected JEBBY or Cruz,or some other insider Party Person things would be better,right? After all,who better to change the system than a creature OF the system,right?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 06, 2019, 11:12:05 AM
Yep. Claiming to be Conservative when policies ever drift leftward lets the competition get away with being far less so.
This is where the GOP morph to the Left has been a grievous error from the start.

In the meantime, powers usurped by (Liberty lost to) the Federal Government have grown beyond anything my grandparents would have stood for.
Right along with the National Debt.

That's right... They gotta be sellin something more than big government and pointing at the dems and shrieking. I really can't believe how many buy into that crap.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 06, 2019, 12:42:11 PM
I disagree.   Currently, the economy is booming, no thanks to the radical leftist Democrats.   If the RNC were the exact same as the DNC....ie if the Republicans were exactly like the Democrats....the economy would be stagnated, unemployment up = people out of work, taxes would be up, corporations would be smothered with taxes and regulations and we'd be back to that Carter-era Misery Index.   A booming economy makes Americans "more free", as we are seeing. 

Hell, all one has to do is listen to just one of the idiots in the Twit Squad.... or one of the Democrat candidates for president.... to see how radically different the two parties are.   That's not to say there are not moles, traitors and rats embedded within the GOP.  But the results of non-Democrat rule are all around us in real time. 

I posit that thinking like that (that the two parties are both the same) is exactly what will hand the power back to the rats.   And if/when that happens...

game over.

The "economy is booming", at least for some, because the federal government is printing money with reckless abandon. It is easy to live well on the credit card before the consequences come due. This year's deficit spending is pushing a trillion dollars in supposedly a boom year.

That's criminal. There's nothing more destructive to our future.

Yet some claim this is the good times, lets continue doing what we're doing and party on...

Pretty amazing what "conservatives" have come to wholehearted support in the name of "winning"...
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 06, 2019, 12:48:52 PM
The "economy is booming", at least for some, because the federal government is printing money with reckless abandon. It is easy to live well on the credit card before the consequences come due. This year's deficit spending is pushing a trillion dollars in supposedly a boom year.

That's criminal. There's nothing more destructive to our future.

Yet some claim this is the good times, lets continue doing what we're doing and party on...

Pretty amazing what "conservatives" have come to wholehearted support in the name of "winning"...

OH MAN, is that ever right!
BUMP that, @DB ... As always, right on the money.
 :beer: :patriot: :seeya:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Sanguine on October 06, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
(https://sparkpeo.hs.llnwd.net/e4//nw/2/1/l219520886.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 06, 2019, 01:56:01 PM
(https://sparkpeo.hs.llnwd.net/e4//nw/2/1/l219520886.jpg)

Funny you post that image...

I'm scanning documents to prepare my 2018 taxes right now before the extension deadline expires this month... The first time I've had to file an extension in decades...
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 07, 2019, 01:31:43 AM
@Smokin Joe

Ok,now explain how Trump,who just became a political candidate for the first time 4 years ago,is responsible for everything the RINO's have been doing since Eisenhower,while you are your fellow "Uber Americans" are REFUSING to help him try to restore some of the ground we have lost?

Maybe if we had elected JEBBY or Cruz,or some other insider Party Person things would be better,right? After all,who better to change the system than a creature OF the system,right?
Pete, I don't see Trump as the problem, nor the cause of the RINOs morphing to the left. This has been going on since he was in military school. He isn't the cause, he's just a symptom.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: aligncare on October 07, 2019, 06:21:35 AM
Pete, I don't see Trump as the problem, nor the cause of the RINOs morphing to the left. This has been going on since he was in military school. He isn't the cause, he's just a symptom.

A lot of us know (not think—know) Donald Trump is the cure. His pugnacious personality brought awareness to the DC swamp‘s corruption and helped breathe life into a docile and compliant Republican Party.

Thank you Donald Trump.  :patriot:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 07, 2019, 08:31:07 AM
The "economy is booming", at least for some, because the federal government is printing money with reckless abandon. It is easy to live well on the credit card before the consequences come due. This year's deficit spending is pushing a trillion dollars in supposedly a boom year.

That's criminal. There's nothing more destructive to our future.

Yet some claim this is the good times, lets continue doing what we're doing and party on...

Pretty amazing what "conservatives" have come to wholehearted support in the name of "winning"...

Then come out and support Mark Sanford.  :patriot:   Profligate  federal spending is his signature issue.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: libertybele on October 07, 2019, 08:37:01 AM
Then come out and support Mark Sanford.  :patriot:   Profligate  federal spending is his signature issue.

Why support him?  Trump still has his base.  They aren't going away.  The ONLY way to dissipate that support is to remove Trump from office and that's exactly what they are trying to do.  The only thing that Sanford will do is take votes away from Trump' being re-elected.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 08:48:08 AM
A lot of us know (not think—know) Donald Trump is the cure. His pugnacious personality brought awareness to the DC swamp‘s corruption and helped breathe life into a docile and compliant Republican Party.

Thank you Donald Trump.  :patriot:

@aligncare

Couldn't agree more,and being a non-career politician in the White House,the professional pols have NOTHING on him to blackmail him about to "keep him in line".

They CAN'T keep him in line,not even with all the political talking heads on tv working to aid them because they really have nothing on him that would cause him to even lose a night's sleep. They even tried to throw Epstein at  him,and that couldn't stick because he cut off all contact with him years ago.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Hoodat on October 07, 2019, 08:59:38 AM
The "economy is booming", at least for some, because the federal government is printing money with reckless abandon. It is easy to live well on the credit card before the consequences come due. This year's deficit spending is pushing a trillion dollars in supposedly a boom year.

More like $2 trillion.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Hoodat on October 07, 2019, 09:02:59 AM
A lot of us know (not think—know) Donald Trump is the cure. His pugnacious personality brought awareness to the DC swamp‘s corruption and helped breathe life into a docile and compliant Republican Party.

Thank you Donald Trump.  :patriot:

Too bad that pugnacious personality is never applied when it comes to deficit spending.  Or immigration law prosecution for that matter.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 07, 2019, 09:11:30 AM
Why support him?  Trump still has his base.  They aren't going away.  The ONLY way to dissipate that support is to remove Trump from office and that's exactly what they are trying to do.  The only thing that Sanford will do is take votes away from Trump' being re-elected.

I may have to hold my nose in the general election,  but I'll be damned if I'll do so in the primary.   Sanford is the sort of principled conservative I can believe in.   I will cast my protest vote with pride.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 07, 2019, 09:14:54 AM
Too bad that pugnacious personality is never applied when it comes to deficit spending. 

Then don't stay silent or mumble about Trump's inevitability.  Republicans DO have a choice; they just to grow the balls to exercise it.   

Support Mark Sanford who has fought the good fight for fiscal responsibility for decades.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 10:15:29 AM
Too bad that pugnacious personality is never applied when it comes to deficit spending.  Or immigration law prosecution for that matter.

@Hoodat

Yeah,causen your RINO of choice would be able to clear up little things like that in 24 hours or less,right?

The feral goobermint is so far out of control that NOBODY can clear it all up in even two terms of office. It took the Dim party from the 1930's to now to get us to where we are,and you SERIOUSLY expect ONE President to clear up all this crap in one term?

You must still believe in Santa,and vote for him as a write-in candidate if you believe it's that simple.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 10:18:50 AM
Then don't stay silent or mumble about Trump's inevitability.  Republicans DO have a choice; they just to grow the balls to exercise it.   

Support Mark Sanford who has fought the good fight for fiscal responsibility for decades.

@Jazzhead

I could possibly see him as a VERY serious candidate for VP,but not at the head of the ticket. There is more to being a president than balancing budgets.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 10:26:09 AM
A lot of us know (not think—know) Donald Trump is the cure.
Thank you Donald Trump.  :patriot:

Tell that to our Kurdish allies in Northern Syria.

Futhermore, I want every Trump supporter here to come foward and respond that they support this action, and why....
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: aligncare on October 07, 2019, 10:43:48 AM
@Hoodat

Yeah,causen your RINO of choice would be able to clear up little things like that in 24 hours or less,right?

The feral goobermint is so far out of control that NOBODY can clear it all up in even two terms of office. It took the Dim party from the 1930's to now to get us to where we are,and you SERIOUSLY expect ONE President to clear up all this crap in one term?

You must still believe in Santa,and vote for him as a write-in candidate if you believe it's that simple.

You put your finger on the key point about these attacks on Trump. They amount to nothing more than unrealistic expectations and the critic’s personal dislike of Donald Trump.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 07, 2019, 10:50:36 AM
@Jazzhead

I could possibly see him as a VERY serious candidate for VP,but not at the head of the ticket. There is more to being a president than balancing budgets.

True, but the fundamental requirement to becoming President is the ability to gain election.  You know my view about that - Trump is simply too divisive and disliked - and not necessarily because of his policies - to win re-election.   Now I understand that the Dems may misread the public's mood and nominate a radical socialist.   But I fear that Trump will prove to be exactly the distraction that will permit such a socialist to prevail,  since for so many the Dem candidate's primary qualification is that he/she is not Trump.   

These are dangerous times we live in,  and any election where most of us are voting against someone rather then for someone they necessarily like or admire presents a dangerous dynamic. 

To hell with this lesser-of-two-evils crap.  That's no choice, or at least not one I am prepared to make.  Mark Sanford is a strong candidate and a principled conservatives.   I am proud to say I support him for the nomination.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: aligncare on October 07, 2019, 10:59:20 AM
Tell that to our Kurdish allies in Northern Syria.

Futhermore, I want every Trump supporter here to come foward and respond that they support this action, and why....

Don’t tell me there aren’t a significant number of conservative republicans who want out of this never ending circle of foreign entanglements. The only ones who do—foreign policy professors, neocons and RINOs, and some in the military and diplomatic fields—are simply wrong.

We may have the greatest military in the world, but it is top civilian leadership who must guide their hands. Assuming that there is a pullout, Americans will be as safe after as before.

The alternative? Confront Turkey militarily for their incursion into Syria? And shoulder yet another foreign entanglement? No thanks.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: bilo on October 07, 2019, 11:06:49 AM
@Hoodat

Yeah,causen your RINO of choice would be able to clear up little things like that in 24 hours or less,right?

The feral goobermint is so far out of control that NOBODY can clear it all up in even two terms of office. It took the Dim party from the 1930's to now to get us to where we are,and you SERIOUSLY expect ONE President to clear up all this crap in one term?

You must still believe in Santa,and vote for him as a write-in candidate if you believe it's that simple.

You are so right!

Federal spending is not going to change. Entitlements are not going to be cut, or eliminated, it would be the end of what ever political party tried to do so. The deficit will continue until nobody buys US Treasuries, when that happens the entire world financial system will collapse.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 11:20:44 AM
Don’t tell me there aren’t a significant number of conservative republicans who want out of this never ending circle of foreign entanglements. The only ones who do—foreign policy professors, neocons and RINOs, and some in the military and diplomatic fields—are simply wrong.

We may have the greatest military in the world, but it is top civilian leadership who must guide their hands. Assuming that there is a pullout, Americans will be as safe after as before.

The alternative? Confront Turkey militarily for their incursion into Syria? And shoulder yet another foreign entanglement? No thanks.

How about plan B.  Air lift the Kurds out of Syria, and then leave?  Or is the upcoming Kurd massacre part of the great deal Trump made?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Hoodat on October 07, 2019, 12:14:16 PM
Federal spending is not going to change. Entitlements are not going to be cut, or eliminated, it would be the end of what ever political party tried to do so. The deficit will continue until nobody buys US Treasuries

Who do you think has been buying Treasury bonds for the last three years?  Have you ever considered the interest rate it would require to raise $2 trillion in capital year after year?  Double digits ar a minimum.

And yes, the President can cut spending without Congress.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 12:19:49 PM
I'm going with the idea that we've got that area videoed 24/7 and are able to see comings and goings.

Pres. Trump said he's tired of fighting other people's wars, AND that he intends if forced to fight...to fight to WIN!!

Are y'all still with me???    :cool:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Hoodat on October 07, 2019, 12:20:46 PM
@Hoodat

The feral goobermint is so far out of control that NOBODY can clear it all up in even two terms of office.

I'm  not expecting Trump to clean it all up.  I simply wish he would make a start.  Food stamps are a good example.  Food stamp rolls have plummeted.  Yet food stamp appropriations continue to increase.  Start with that.  At the end of the year, have money left over.  Appropriations unspent.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 07, 2019, 12:40:45 PM
How about plan B.  Air lift the Kurds out of Syria, and then leave?  Or is the upcoming Kurd massacre part of the great deal Trump made?

The problem with Plan B isn't airlifting out, its landing.

And, of course, convincing the passengers to leave their ancestral homeland.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 12:41:29 PM
Don’t tell me there aren’t a significant number of conservative republicans who want out of this never ending circle of foreign entanglements. The only ones who do—foreign policy professors, neocons and RINOs, and some in the military and diplomatic fields—are simply wrong.

We may have the greatest military in the world, but it is top civilian leadership who must guide their hands. Assuming that there is a pullout, Americans will be as safe after as before.

The alternative? Confront Turkey militarily for their incursion into Syria? And shoulder yet another foreign entanglement? No thanks.

No there are not - But not leaving allies high and dry. That ain't American.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 07, 2019, 12:44:48 PM
I'm going with the idea that we've got that area videoed 24/7 and are able to see comings and goings.

Pres. Trump said he's tired of fighting other people's wars, AND that he intends if forced to fight...to fight to WIN!!

Are y'all still with me???    :cool:

Nope. Win the ones we got. Then go home.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:00:36 PM
Then don't stay silent or mumble about Trump's inevitability.  Republicans DO have a choice; they just to grow the balls to exercise it.   

Support Mark Sanford who has fought the good fight for fiscal responsibility for decades.

The choice in this case...is worse than what we've got now.  You like Sanford cause he's a moderate and would be more willing to side with your Liberal belief in gay "marriage"...abortion "rights" and gun "control".
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: WhatWouldReaganDo on October 07, 2019, 01:28:21 PM
@Hoodat
The feral goobermint is so far out of control that NOBODY can clear it all up in even two terms of office. It took the Dim party from the 1930's to now to get us to where we are,and you SERIOUSLY expect ONE President to clear up all this crap in one term?

You must still believe in Santa,and vote for him as a write-in candidate if you believe it's that simple.
But...Donnie was going to eliminate the national debt in 8 years. He promised...
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/275003-trump-i-will-eliminate-us-debt-in-8-years
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 01:32:10 PM
But...Donnie was going to eliminate the national debt in 8 years. He promised...
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/275003-trump-i-will-eliminate-us-debt-in-8-years

@WhatWouldReaganDo we're not suppsoed to remember stuff like that. Much less hold him to it. Come on now... /sarc
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 07, 2019, 02:11:51 PM
The choice in this case...is worse than what we've got now.  You like Sanford cause he's a moderate and would be more willing to side with your Liberal belief in gay "marriage"...abortion "rights" and gun "control".

What knee-jerk nonsense.   Sanford has a lifetime ACU rating of 92.  When he served in Congress,  Sanford was recognized by Cato Institute as its most fiscally conservative member. 

I do not support candidates based on social issues.   I care whether they support limited, Constitutional government.  If you know Sanford's views on abortion, or gays, or your precious guns,  please inform me.  For the issues I care about,  Sanford's a home run in my book.  And he ought to be in yours, too -  except you insist on genuflecting towards a man who was,  just a few short years ago,  as pro-choice and pro-gun control as any of his fellow New York liberals. 

Sanford not only talks the talk, he walks the walk - and has for over 30 years.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 07, 2019, 02:12:40 PM
But...Donnie was going to eliminate the national debt in 8 years. He promised...
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/275003-trump-i-will-eliminate-us-debt-in-8-years

Well duh!

He can only do it if given 4 more years... His 8 years aren't up yet...
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: txradioguy on October 07, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
What knee-jerk nonsense.   Sanford has a lifetime ACU rating of 92.  When he served in Congress,  Sanford was recognized by Cato Institute as its most fiscally conservative member. 

I do not support candidates based on social issues.   I care whether they support limited, Constitutional government.  If you know Sanford's views on abortion, or gays, or your precious guns,  please inform me.  For the issues I care about,  Sanford's a home run in my book.  And he ought to be in yours, too -  except you insist on genuflecting towards a man who was,  just a few short years ago,  as pro-choice and pro-gun control as any of his fellow New York liberals. 

Sanford not only talks the talk, he walks the walk - and has for over 30 years.   

When you start off a reply to me like you jsut did.  I know I'm 100% spot on.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: bilo on October 07, 2019, 06:51:43 PM
Who do you think has been buying Treasury bonds for the last three years?  Have you ever considered the interest rate it would require to raise $2 trillion in capital year after year?  Double digits ar a minimum.

And yes, the President can cut spending without Congress.

The entire world is racing to buy our bonds, that's part of what has driven down the yield.

If the interest rate rises the govt will just print more money and sell more bonds. They are not going to pay off the debt, or balance the budget. If they do that they will be voted out of office by all the people receiving entitlements.

The long term answer is to monetize the debt. They will devalue our currency to the point where the balance of debt vs. assets is low.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: aligncare on October 07, 2019, 08:09:46 PM
But...Donnie was going to eliminate the national debt in 8 years. He promised...
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/275003-trump-i-will-eliminate-us-debt-in-8-years

Aww, what’s the matter? Donnie beat your primary candidate? Hard to get the sour grape taste out, huh?

It’s safe to say that during the campaign Trump had no idea of what would be coming: the entire intelligence community had brazenly conspired on Obama’s direction to embroil his administration in charges of foreign election collusion—which would tied him up for the next 3 years and undermine trust in his administration; nor was he aware of the depths of depravity the media would sink to, to collude with democrats and attack him relentlessly in the press; and finally, he wasn’t prepared for the treachery of John McCain and other congressional republicans in dragging their feet on health insurance reform and other important economic legislation which would have helped reduce the debt.

But, let’s all attack Donald Trump for not moving mountains. That’s easy enough.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 07, 2019, 08:23:55 PM
   I guess it's just my impatience showing or perhaps more realistically, it is my disappointment in the sad fact that PDJT turned out just as I feared the most, that he would.  Hopefully we're stuck with him for 4 more years because the alternative will probably make me suicidal.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 08:28:35 PM
Tell that to our Kurdish allies in Northern Syria.

Futhermore, I want every Trump supporter here to come foward and respond that they support this action, and why....

@catfish1957

Oh,hell YEAH! I am worried about saving America,but I'm going to take time off from working on that to worry about the Kurds in Syria.

Good call!
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 08:33:20 PM
You are so right!

Federal spending is not going to change. Entitlements are not going to be cut, or eliminated, it would be the end of what ever political party tried to do so. The deficit will continue until nobody buys US Treasuries, when that happens the entire world financial system will collapse.

@bilo

I disagree. Federal spending is going to HAVE to be cut. It just can't be stopped immediately because of all the chaos that would result. We need to elect people who will establish that it WILL be cut gradually,and that some programs will be eliminated entirely as time goes on.

There HAS to be adjustment periods.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 08:35:32 PM
But...Donnie was going to eliminate the national debt in 8 years. He promised...
https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/275003-trump-i-will-eliminate-us-debt-in-8-years

@WhatWouldReaganDo

Maybe he would have if he didn't have idiots stabbing him in the back and refusing to support him.

Know anybody like that?

BTW,you do know this isn't a dictatorial police state,where Trump can just issue decrees and make major changes in the law at will,right?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 08:38:11 PM
@catfish1957

Oh,hell YEAH! I am worried about saving America,but I'm going to take time off from working on that to worry about the Kurds in Syria.

Good call!

Throwing allies under the bus, is your cup of tea.  Got it. 
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 08:38:18 PM
@WhatWouldReaganDo we're not suppsoed to remember stuff like that. Much less hold him to it. Come on now... /sarc

@txradioguy

And after people like YOU  have been sooo supportive and helpful,too! </S>
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 08:38:30 PM
Tell that to our Kurdish allies in Northern Syria.

Futhermore, I want every Trump supporter here to come foward and respond that they support this action, and why....

I'm your Huckleberry....

Said that it was disconcerting this afternoon, but having time to digest and reflect a bit  (Rush never mentioned it his entire program), find out that it was contingent upon the Turks behaving themselves.

He's absolutely right that we can't be expected to remain in countries "forever".

Today, they bombed positions in Northern Syria...presented as "Kurd Positions", and the last we heard was that airspace over Syria was forbidden to them.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 07, 2019, 08:39:44 PM
except you insist on genuflecting towards a man who was,  just a few short years ago,  as pro-choice and pro-gun control as any of his fellow New York liberals. 



@Jazzhead

Not only a lie,but a damn lie.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 08:39:55 PM
I'm your Huckleberry....

Said that it was disconcerting this afternoon, but having time to digest and reflect a bit  (Rush never mentioned it his entire program), find out that it was contingent upon the Turks behaving themselves.

He's absolutely right that we can't be expected to remain in countries "forever".

Today, they bombed positions in Northern Syria...presented as "Kurd Positions", and the last we heard was that airspace over Syria was forbidden to them.

And you are a common sense Trump supporter.  I respect that.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 08:45:04 PM
And you are a common sense Trump supporter.  I respect that.

@catfish1957

Thank you.   Just naturally want to give every benefit of a doubt to him before I condemn it.

He threatened to "ruin their economy",...that he'd already proven he can do it. (which was a mystery to me   :laugh: )

PS:  NATS having a huge 5th inning against the Dodgers...going up 5-1 on a 3-run Zimmerman blast to dead CF.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: corbe on October 07, 2019, 08:48:08 PM
And you are a common sense Trump supporter.  I respect that.

    @catfish1957 I have found that quite a few of the Trumpers here are good people that think with their heads and I also respect that.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DCPatriot on October 07, 2019, 08:49:01 PM
    @catfish1957 I have found that quite a few of the Trumpers here are good people that think with their heads and I also respect that, also.

 :beer:
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 07, 2019, 08:49:05 PM
@catfish1957



PS:  NATS having a huge 5th inning against the Dodgers...going up 5-1 on a 3-run Zimmerman blast to dead CF.

Congratulations.  I think the Dodgers are feeling the pressure of being MLB's version of the Buffalo Bills.

Not so good news our way.  Charlie Morton was clutch today (which I fully expected).  Game 4 tomorrow with Verlander on short rest.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 09, 2019, 10:33:35 AM
@Hoodat

Yeah,causen your RINO of choice would be able to clear up little things like that in 24 hours or less,right?

The feral goobermint is so far out of control that NOBODY can clear it all up in even two terms of office. It took the Dim party from the 1930's to now to get us to where we are,and you SERIOUSLY expect ONE President to clear up all this crap in one term?

You must still believe in Santa,and vote for him as a write-in candidate if you believe it's that simple.
Dude. Santa is a giveaway program coming out of other people's pockets. There are plenty of those on the ticket already.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Mesaclone on October 09, 2019, 11:02:04 AM
I'm your Huckleberry....

Said that it was disconcerting this afternoon, but having time to digest and reflect a bit  (Rush never mentioned it his entire program), find out that it was contingent upon the Turks behaving themselves.

He's absolutely right that we can't be expected to remain in countries "forever".

Today, they bombed positions in Northern Syria...presented as "Kurd Positions", and the last we heard was that airspace over Syria was forbidden to them.

Well stated and almost precisely how I feel about this situation. The President's tendency to pull back troops from these areas is entirely correct...despite opposition from the Pentagon and Neo-con ranks. This pullback is not unconditional and should Turkey overstep...for example penetrating deeply into Syria or staying on a permanent basis in that country...then the pullback halts. We are not going to abandon the Kurds but a strategic and conditional withdrawal seems the prudent action in this situation.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: bilo on October 09, 2019, 01:36:03 PM
@bilo

I disagree. Federal spending is going to HAVE to be cut. It just can't be stopped immediately because of all the chaos that would result. We need to elect people who will establish that it WILL be cut gradually,and that some programs will be eliminated entirely as time goes on.

There HAS to be adjustment periods.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not in favor of deficit spending. I'm just trying to recognize reality. It will not be stopped. A large % of the budget is mandatory entitlement spending that has built in annual increases. The discretionary part of the budget could be completely eliminated and the budget would still be in deficit. The "easy" solution is to devalue the currency at a greater rate than the deficit is growing and in the end the debt becomes a smaller % of the GDP.

I don't like any of this, but I recognize that's what they are doing. In the early 1900's someone could work and save to retire one day with the expectation that their future cost of living would be the same, or very close to it, as when they were working. Then the Federal Reserve was created by the big banks/financiers who bailed out the federal govt and we began to see inflation. Now the only thing we can be sure of is the value of a dollar will be worth less in the long term.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on October 09, 2019, 01:40:00 PM
The article is wrong. Being against impeachment doesn't necessarily mean you're with Trump on it, you might just think that the standard for "high crimes and misdemeanors" hasn't been met yet.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 09, 2019, 01:41:16 PM
Don't misunderstand, I'm not in favor of deficit spending. I'm just trying to recognize reality. It will not be stopped. A large % of the budget is mandatory entitlement spending that has built in annual increases. The discretionary part of the budget could be completely eliminated and the budget would still be in deficit. The "easy" solution is to devalue the currency at a greater rate than the deficit is growing and in the end the debt becomes a smaller % of the GDP.

I don't like any of this, but I recognize that's what they are doing. In the early 1900's someone could work and save to retire one day with the expectation that their future cost of living would be the same, or very close to it, as when they were working. Then the Federal Reserve was created by the big banks/financiers who bailed out the federal govt and we began to see inflation. Now the only thing we can be sure of is the value of a dollar will be worth less in the long term.
For years I have been saying the Federal Government would inflate our way out of debt. Of course, that is a fool's errand. It was the same line predatory lenders used on farmers in the early '80s, encouraging them to mortgage the farm to buy equipment and pay it back in inflated dollars. The dollars inflated, but grain prices did not.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 09, 2019, 02:27:24 PM
A question for folks:   Would you be in favor of a VAT or a Warren-style wealth tax if, and only if, the proceeds were used to bring the deficit into balance?   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: XenaLee on October 09, 2019, 02:33:29 PM
A question for folks:   Would you be in favor of a VAT or a Warren-style wealth tax if, and only if, the proceeds were used to bring the deficit into balance?

HELL no.   Cut the friggin spending for a shocking and refreshing change.

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on October 09, 2019, 02:37:07 PM
A question for folks:   Would you be in favor of a VAT or a Warren-style wealth tax if, and only if, the proceeds were used to bring the deficit into balance?

Actually a VAT wouldn't be a bad idea if it replaces the income tax, which would probably never happen.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 09, 2019, 02:46:48 PM
A question for folks:   Would you be in favor of a VAT or a Warren-style wealth tax if, and only if, the proceeds were used to bring the deficit into balance?
NO. The problem is spending. Everyone here has to bring their spending into line with their income or resources. We neither have the power to tax, nor print 'money'.

Besides, any attempt to pay off the debt would be matched by an equal or even greater amount of deficit spending.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: XenaLee on October 09, 2019, 02:49:49 PM
Actually a VAT wouldn't be a bad idea if it replaces the income tax, which would probably never happen.

Nah.   The Commiecrats want to 'add' a VAT tax on top of the income tax.   You know how they are.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 09, 2019, 03:15:36 PM
No. I would be in favor of shutting off access to our country to 3rd worlders and anyone else who doesn't have job skills in demand here. You either immigrate to America as an asset,or you don't get in.

I would also shut off welfare as a career field with early retirement as soon as you squat and push out a baby. MANDATORY birth control for every female on welfare that is of child bearing years,and any welfare recipients that is found guilty of a felony while living in public housing is given the boot and having their checks cut off.

Able-bodied welfare residents should be required to cut grass,paint,and do any other similar jobs that need to be done in the housing development where they live.

No children over 16 should be allowed to remain in public housing if they quit school,or are kicked out for misbehavior.

While we are at it,we need to take a serious look at the "welfare for corporate farmers" programs,and similar programs for other corporate favorites.

And all of this is barely scraping the surface.I am sure there are other programs sucking us dry that I have never heard of.

It's not that we spent too much money as it is we MISSPENT too much money.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 09, 2019, 03:24:55 PM
HELL no.   Cut the friggin spending for a shocking and refreshing change.

Well, that's not going to happen,  especially with Trump as President.   (I support Mark Sanford and you don't, so don't give me grief about that statement)

Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Jazzhead on October 09, 2019, 03:27:43 PM
So the Dems (and Trump)  won't cut spending, and Republicans don't want to add new taxes.   So deficits will keep blooming like kudzu. 

Sanford says we may not last another 10 years at this rate.  And he may be right.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 09, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
Well, that's not going to happen,  especially with Trump as President.   (I support Mark Sanford and you don't, so don't give me grief about that statement)

Only 16% of the current budget is non-defense non-mandatory discretionary spending. This is the dough congressmen and women use to get themselves re-elected.

I'm really interested to know how Mark Sanford, or Trump, or any president gets around the budget shutdown tactic to cut any of the fraction of the budget available to cut.

Whats the plan? Will Sanford win congress over with his dynamic personality?
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on October 09, 2019, 03:29:58 PM
So the Dems (and Trump)  won't cut spending, and Republicans don't want to add new taxes.   So deficits will keep blooming like kudzu. 

Sanford says we may not last another 10 years at this rate.  And he may be right.

 :shrug:

The US government prints it's own money. Yeah we spend irresponsibly but so does nearly every other nation on earth.

It's not right, nor is it benefitial to the people, but I don't think "we won't last".
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 09, 2019, 04:04:48 PM
:shrug:

The US government prints it's own money. Yeah we spend irresponsibly but so does nearly every other nation on earth.

It's not right, nor is it benefitial to the people, but I don't think "we won't last".
The US Government prints Federal Reserve Notes. If you read the fine print, "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private and is redeemable in lawful money at the United States Treasury or any Federal Reserve Bank".
They are not even redeemable any more. It's like passing around IOUs
(http://oldcurrencyvalues.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/894c9746-f6e7-418a-b0e0-0fb8883a82ca-e1533726189549.jpeg)

They haven't printed money since United States Notes and Silver Certificates, which were redeemable in lawful money.
(https://i.etsystatic.com/9548498/r/il/b03e2f/1890620470/il_794xN.1890620470_9vk5.jpg)
United States Notes were a direct issuance of debt, by the Government. (No interest).

(https://www.govmint.com/media/catalog/product/cache/10f519365b01716ddb90abc57de5a837/2/4/241437_2.jpg)
Silver certificates were redeemable in silver coin. (Gold certificates were redeemable in gold coin, but banned at the same time private ownership of gold was, in the 30s)
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 05:10:15 PM
A question for folks:   Would you be in favor of a VAT or a Warren-style wealth tax if, and only if, the proceeds were used to bring the deficit into balance?

Nope.  Becasue the budget never gets balanced.  All you're doing is giving tax and spend politicians a new tax to take more money from our pockets and give to people who are either here illegally or too lazy to work on their own.

Germany thought the VAT tax was a good idea when it was ontroducced too...back when it was only around 4%...now it's at 19% and it's a tax on everything from groceries to furniture to your utilties.

I expect the drunken sailor spending pols on both sides of the aisle would abuse a VAT tax in the states as well.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Hoodat on October 09, 2019, 07:03:27 PM

A question for folks:   Would you be in favor of a VAT or a Warren-style wealth tax if, and only if, the proceeds were used to bring the deficit into balance?

NO. The problem is spending. Everyone here has to bring their spending into line with their income or resources. We neither have the power to tax, nor print 'money'.

Besides, any attempt to pay off the debt would be matched by an equal or even greater amount of deficit spending.

Truth.

The bottom line is that government cannot bring in more than 19% of GDP no matter what the tax rate is.  So as long as government insists on spending more than 19% of GDP on government, we will have a deficit. 

The first thing to do is to get rid of baseline budgeting.  This is one the President can do on his own without Congress.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 09, 2019, 07:43:15 PM
I will join the chorus.

While I am greatly in favor of replacing income tax with VAT (flat tax/ Fair tax) at the retail level, allowing both income and vat will just increase taxes and provide yet another avenue that will grow exponentially.

Taxing income or savings (or property for that matter) causes less participation.
Taxing spending is the only moral neutral, providing housing, medical and food remain un-taxed.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: dancer on October 10, 2019, 12:52:15 AM
A recent major poll indicated that Trump had 95% support with Republicans.

I confess to supporting Perot in 199, then grew the ef up politically.

As did I.  Many here do not realize that after Perot got a nice chunk of the vote, the Rs and Ds got together and passed new requirements for third party nominations...they exempted themselves, of course.  It is next to impossible for a third to get the nomination.  Impossible. 
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: roamer_1 on October 10, 2019, 12:58:17 AM
As did I.  Many here do not realize that after Perot got a nice chunk of the vote, the Rs and Ds got together and passed new requirements for third party nominations...they exempted themselves, of course.  It is next to impossible for a third to get the nomination.  Impossible.

So what? If the only way my vote 'counts' is to vote for one of the two liberal main parties, then it ain't no different than staying home... Other than the eventuality of enough people taking the time and initiative to grow another party to the strength necessary to compete with the two liberal parties.

And that is the ONLY thing keeping me from staying home anyway. It certainly does not mean I have to vote for one or the other.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: libertybele on October 10, 2019, 08:49:30 AM
Reports of the public sector wanting impeachment is growing and Romney is rallying support for impeachment in the Senate. As I've stated several times, Trump cannot rely on a safety net in the Senate.   
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DCPatriot on October 10, 2019, 08:53:00 AM
Reports of the public sector wanting impeachment is growing and Romney is rallying support for impeachment in the Senate. As I've stated several times, Trump cannot rely on a safety net in the Senate.

Enough of this.

Let's do the full Impeachment, right now!  Today...start a vote in the House.   Need to get this finished by January.

Then let the effing Senate Republicans vote to convict.

I will guaran-freaking-tee you that Pres. Trump could then quit the Party and run as an Independent.

And STILL carry 45 States.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: libertybele on October 10, 2019, 08:59:11 AM
Enough of this.

Let's do the full Impeachment, right now!  Today...start a vote in the House.   Need to get this finished by January.

Then let the effing Senate Republicans vote to convict.

I will guaran-freaking-tee you that Pres. Trump could then quit the Party and run as an Independent.

And STILL carry 45 States.



He would have to step down as President in order to do so and Pence would become President.  Trump would then have to qualify and get on the ballot on all 50 states .... something tells me that he wouldn't qualify.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 10, 2019, 09:01:04 AM
Enough of this.

Let's do the full Impeachment, right now!  Today...start a vote in the House.   Need to get this finished by January.

Then let the effing Senate Republicans vote to convict.

I will guaran-freaking-tee you that Pres. Trump could then quit the Party and run as an Independent.

And STILL carry 45 States.

They will, just as soon as the rats figure out how to avoid allowing the republicans right to call witnesses and of cross examination.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: jmyrlefuller on October 10, 2019, 09:46:33 AM
Enough of this.

Let's do the full Impeachment, right now!  Today...start a vote in the House.   Need to get this finished by January.

Then let the effing Senate Republicans vote to convict.

I will guaran-freaking-tee you that Pres. Trump could then quit the Party and run as an Independent.

And STILL carry 45 States.
If the Senate votes to convict, they can also vote to disqualify him from ever seeking a federal office again.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: aligncare on October 10, 2019, 10:03:25 AM
If the Senate votes to convict, they can also vote to disqualify him from ever seeking a federal office again.

No one needs to worry about that. The republican Senate wouldn’t dare convict Trump on such flimsy, trumped-up charges.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: skeeter on October 10, 2019, 10:07:35 AM
No one needs to worry about that. The republican Senate wouldn’t dare convict Trump on such flimsy, trumped-up charges.

I'm afraid soon no one will stop and consider just how effing ridiculous those charges are.

Trump, in trouble for encouraging a foreign leader to investigate obvious past corruption involving US politicians. It would be hilarious if it weren't some damned infuriating. Its like impeaching Sam Ervin for investigating Watergate.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: DB on October 10, 2019, 10:11:43 AM
NO. The problem is spending. Everyone here has to bring their spending into line with their income or resources. We neither have the power to tax, nor print 'money'.

Besides, any attempt to pay off the debt would be matched by an equal or even greater amount of deficit spending.

Politicians gain both power and votes when they provide "free" goodies at someone else's expense. The more than can get their hands on the more power they gain. For most, power also brings them wealth. The fatal flaw in the constitution is not limiting this ability to spend at someone else's expense. That someone else always being a minority of the vote or pushed as a future debt.

It is the wolves voting for what's for dinner.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: sneakypete on October 10, 2019, 10:14:06 AM
Enough of this.

Let's do the full Impeachment, right now!  Today...start a vote in the House.   Need to get this finished by January.

Then let the effing Senate Republicans vote to convict.

I will guaran-freaking-tee you that Pres. Trump could then quit the Party and run as an Independent.

And STILL carry 45 States.

@DCPatriot

I dunno about that,but I do suspect that most of the alleged Republicans that voted to impeach him would lose their re-election bids.

Which is why there is no way in hell such a vote is going to be given.

The truth is even the few sane Dims aren't serious about this. It's just a ploy to cloud the facts before an election so they  can hope to win the unaffiliated votes. It's all they have,so they are going to go for it.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Bigun on October 10, 2019, 10:27:17 AM
I'm afraid soon no one will stop and consider just how effing ridiculous those charges are.

Trump, in trouble for encouraging a foreign leader to investigate obvious past corruption involving US politicians. It would be hilarious if it weren't some damned infuriating. Its like impeaching Sam Ervin for investigating Watergate.

 :yowsa: The problem is that Trump is urging that a former member of "The Club" be investigated for corruption and THAT is just something that cannot be allowed as it might take root.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Night Hides Not on October 10, 2019, 11:34:54 AM
No one needs to worry about that. The republican Senate wouldn’t dare convict Trump on such flimsy, trumped-up charges.

My crystal ball, cracked as it may be, sees the potential for removing Trump under the 25th amendment. His public statements are growing more unhinged by each passing day. They're to the point of being embarrassing.

His constant bullying towards anyone who disagrees with him is not presidential. He's managed to make Steve Kerr and Gregg Popovich look sympathetic, a hard feat to achieve.

Trump's penchant for "managing by chaos" is starting to turn off voters IMO, as evidenced by the polls showing more in favor for impeachment.

Feel free to criticize me, but I don't see Trump expanding his base, which he's going to need to do to get reelected.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: aligncare on October 10, 2019, 11:39:46 AM
:yowsa: The problem is that Trump is urging that a former member of "The Club" be investigated for corruption and THAT is just something that cannot be allowed as it might take root.

I’m afraid you’re correct. That’s the lynchpin holding back the truth. They, (nearly) all of them, have been playing the citizenry for fools.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: catfish1957 on October 10, 2019, 12:02:11 PM
My crystal ball, cracked as it may be, sees the potential for removing Trump under the 25th amendment. His public statements are growing more unhinged by each passing day. They're to the point of being embarrassing.



His Kurds didn't help us at Normandy in World War 2 comment sealed the deal for me.
Title: Re: Trump’s removal would require Republican dissidents. But those who speak out become targets of v
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on October 10, 2019, 04:53:05 PM
My crystal ball, cracked as it may be, sees the potential for removing Trump under the 25th amendment.

I think that is pure fantasy, actually. Less likely than impeachment and less likely than impeachment with conviction in the Senate. The latter I already find highly unlikely.

But we're in uncharted waters.