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General Category => Politics => Topic started by: OfTheCross on October 02, 2019, 05:58:30 PM

Title: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: OfTheCross on October 02, 2019, 05:58:30 PM
Quote
The Cato 2019 Welfare, Work, and Wealth National Survey finds that a majority, 55%, of Americans favor “recategorizing drug offenses from felonies to civil offenses” such that they “would be treated like minor traffic violations rather than crimes.” Forty-four percent (44%) oppose treating drug offenses like traffic tickets.

Majorities of Democrats (69%) and independents (54%) support decriminalizing drug offenses. However, most Republicans (59%) oppose this change while 40% favor.

cato (https://www.cato.org/blog/55-americans-favor-decriminalizing-drugs)

I would be in favor of this. Not every drug, though. Just things that are on par with alcohol and marijuana.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Fishrrman on October 02, 2019, 09:26:12 PM
"Sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll...!"

All going according to plan...
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: truth_seeker on October 02, 2019, 09:35:21 PM
Expect encampments of homeless drug addicts, like Seattle, San Francisc, Lost Angeles.

In LA expect the spread of medeival contagious diseases,  like the Bubonic Plague.

See Dr.Drew Pinsky, regarding LA.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 02, 2019, 10:00:05 PM
I would be in favor of this. Not every drug, though. Just things that are on par with alcohol and marijuana.

What?

You would keep Shrooms Illegal?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSftV-wct-W8g-CKifTtXTksRka1JOFaSlZGycYYXxggRWTwweG)
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: corbe on October 02, 2019, 10:14:15 PM
   This is wrong on so many levels considering the depths of despair the human soul can reach.  Wrong approach, IMHO.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: corbe on October 02, 2019, 10:26:23 PM
   I just took my dogs down my street for a walk into my park, it's next to a Rehab Center where they sentence the rich people's kids from drug court in San Antonio as I swung on the swing while my dogs chased off all the deer, I witnessed three Young women, with knapsacks, being admitted.  It breaks my heart, but if not for supervised intervention, they would probably just become another ho killed in San Antonio last night.

Bonnie Bishop~Every Happiness Under the Sun

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmBx3g0AoKc#)
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: The Ghost on October 02, 2019, 10:31:37 PM
turn on tune in drop out.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Free Vulcan on October 02, 2019, 10:37:48 PM
It's all cool till someone gets lit and t-bones your 16 y/o daughter followed by a midnight DOA knock at the door.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Gefn on October 02, 2019, 10:40:04 PM
What?

You would keep Shrooms Illegal?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSftV-wct-W8g-CKifTtXTksRka1JOFaSlZGycYYXxggRWTwweG)

What would Homer Do?
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: corbe on October 02, 2019, 10:49:18 PM
   I'm glad President Trump doesn't drink or do drugs, sets a good example.  But who in their 'Right Mind' would want to grow up and be President someday, anyway, anymore.


    *Besides Ted Cruz
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 02, 2019, 11:05:52 PM
I would be in favor of this. Not every drug, though. Just things that are on par with alcohol and marijuana.

I am probably against federal charges, except interstate. Partly because of my libertarian bend, but also because it just don't work.

State and local charges I am all for. There is not a single thing that is a worse epidemic, that is more destructive, than drugs - To include alcohol and marijuana. It destroys lives, and dang near destroyed mine.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: corbe on October 02, 2019, 11:15:45 PM
I am probably against federal charges, except interstate. Partly because of my libertarian bend, but also because it just don't work.

State and local charges I am all for. There is not a single thing that is a worse epidemic, that is more destructive, than drugs - To include alcohol and marijuana. It destroys lives, and dang near destroyed mine.


   I've had many, far too many, bad, brushes with drugs in my life.  I can only assume it was my Family's prayers and not my desire to enjoy life, that got me through, thus far.  Other than booze and a little smoke now and then I've been clean for almost 8 years.  Lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll kick beer and winstons before I die.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 02, 2019, 11:38:43 PM

   I've had many, far too many, bad, brushes with drugs in my life.  I can only assume it was my Family's prayers and not my desire to enjoy life, that got me through, thus far.  Other than booze and a little smoke now and then I've been clean for almost 8 years.  Lord willing and the creek don't rise, I'll kick beer and winstons before I die.

I am not against a beer or two now and then... But what I used to drink in a day (12 pack or more) would probably take me 2 years to fulfill these days... In fact, I can remember only 4 beers this year so far, and two of those were on the same evening.

Never did toke much. It just knocks me out, so I don't get much of a high, Hard liquor in general ain't my bag... Other than shine... speed and coke, and opiods... different story, and muy malo for me. And anything made of cactus juice. For some reason, I cannot stop tequila or mescal.

Still enjoy a smoke now and then... Partial to a pipe. and I am definitely addicted to Copenhagen, which I would love to be done with. 

Mighty boring these days, sittin on the porch drinkin sweet tea or lemonade... And I like it fine that way.

 :beer: <== Did you see that? Irony. It's so ironic.  :silly:  :seeya:
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: corbe on October 02, 2019, 11:52:35 PM
    It's all been fun and I have only one regret, Dope ruined my first marriage and Debbie was a fine Vermont Girl. I have been either incredibly Blessed or perhaps Lucky (doubtful) to even be here right now.

    Drugs may be the scenic route but the map can get quite complicated for stoners.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 03, 2019, 12:14:42 AM
    It's all been fun and I have only one regret, Dope ruined my first marriage and Debbie was a fine Vermont Girl. I have been either incredibly Blessed or perhaps Lucky (doubtful) to even be here right now.

    Drugs may be the scenic route but the map can get quite complicated for stoners.

Yeah, it wrecked my dad, big-time. Beer and coke... Spin-dry, near divorce, the whole 9 yards. Wrecked our family pretty bad, but it made me wise, because I was already well down that very same trail.

My saving grace came in the form of an out-of-body experience. I come up out of myself, suddenly sober as a judge, floating over the campfire, looking at myself carrying on, surrounded by thieves and ne'er do wells... I heard God ask me if this is what I really want, and that He had other plans.

That very moment I started stepping away. And within 3 months or so, I was dried out and that, literally by the grace of God.

But I was still an in demand bouncer... And I saw all of what drugs and alcohol were doing to other folks, being altogether sober and wide awake to it.

Somewhere in there I had a relapse, got in a helluva fight and messed the other guys up real bad... But I knew one of them. He was an ancillary friend, and my family knew his family. So after the fact I went to pay my respects, and it broke my heart what I done to his family - All the grief and heartache I caused... I put that while family behind the eight ball... For a long while, that single act of mine wrecked em all as his bills to put him back together, and his long recovery strained them well beyond the breaking point... For years.

Don't get me wrong. He and his pals had it coming, and the sheriff called it self defense and all... But I had done the same thing more than a few times before - This time I seen it up close, and it broke my heart. So much for the good-ol-boys excuse.

Yeah, I have my regrets too.
Truth be told, that whole damn scene makes many regrets at the bare minimum.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Sighlass on October 03, 2019, 12:17:00 AM
Drug free for pretty much all my life... I tried pot in college and it scared the crap out of me... Never did much else except drink a beer once or twice a year since (and even that has been several years ago). I drink sweet tea and an occasional Dr. Pepper now days. My brother had a spell just this evening with his sugar, I am coming to sad grips with the fact I may actually outlive him.

I take that back, I do love a dip (snuff)... *How in the world did I forget about my nasty habit of dipping, I don't know.

Put me in the 45% category, minority again... seems to be a pattern here lately... I don't wish anyone not to enjoy life, but I have seen too many times them drugs do families in. Heartbreaking effects on love ones.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Sighlass on October 03, 2019, 12:22:20 AM
Yeah, it wrecked my dad, big-time. Beer and coke... Spin-dry, near divorce, the whole 9 yards. Wrecked our family pretty bad, but it made me wise, because I was already well down that very same trail.

My saving grace came in the form of an out-of-body experience. I come up out of myself, suddenly sober as a judge, floating over the campfire, looking at myself carrying on, surrounded by thieves and ne'er do wells... I heard God ask me if this is what I really want, and that He had other plans.

That very moment I started stepping away. And within 3 months or so, I was dried out and that, literally by the grace of God.

But I was still an in demand bouncer... And I saw all of what drugs and alcohol were doing to other folks, being altogether sober and wide awake to it.

Somewhere in there I had a relapse, got in a helluva fight and messed the other guys up real bad... But I knew one of them. He was an ancillary friend, and my family knew his family. So after the fact I went to pay my respects, and it broke my heart what I done to his family - All the grief and heartache I caused... I put that while family behind the eight ball... For a long while, that single act of mine wrecked em all as his bills to put him back together, and his long recovery strained them well beyond the breaking point... For years.

Don't get me wrong. He and his pals had it coming, and the sheriff called it self defense and all... But I had done the same thing more than a few times before - This time I seen it up close, and it broke my heart. So much for the good-ol-boys excuse.

Yeah, I have my regrets too.
Truth be told, that whole damn scene makes many regrets at the bare minimum.


Good heart story, thanks for sharing friend.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 03, 2019, 12:27:23 AM
It's all cool till someone gets lit and t-bones your 16 y/o daughter followed by a midnight DOA knock at the door.
Agreed. Enough idiots on the road with phones, don't need decriminalizing more ways to not pay attention.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Fishrrman on October 03, 2019, 09:45:27 AM
I'm probably the only person you'll ever meet who has never been drunk nor high.

I went to Woodstock and didn't touch any drugs.

As an American G.I. in Germany, I went to the Hofbrau House in Munich -- one of the most famous beer houses of them all -- and ordered "ein cola, bitte"...
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: The_Reader_David on October 03, 2019, 09:57:39 AM
What?

You would keep Shrooms Illegal?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSftV-wct-W8g-CKifTtXTksRka1JOFaSlZGycYYXxggRWTwweG)

Actually, there are studies on the harms intrinsic in use of various drugs (both to the user and to others) that suggest "on a par with alcohol" would make the case for blanket legalization (see the graphic from a European study on drug harms here:  https://quillette.com/2019/08/12/rationalizing-modern-drug-prejudices/ (https://quillette.com/2019/08/12/rationalizing-modern-drug-prejudices/).)  Note where alcohol and 'shrooms end up in the ranking.

Many of the harms we associate with illegal drugs are caused not by their use or abuse but by their being illegal, or even when intrinsic to the use or abuse of the drug are exacerbated by their illegality.  These include deaths from drug gang turf wars (with no recourse to courts because their trade is illegal they settle disputes after the manner of Hobbes's state of nature), overdose deaths (exacerbated by illegality -- no quality control, even when the hit is really heroin, unmixed with fenantyl, the degree of purity can vary causing an overdode), unemployability of addicts (yeah, some will be just deadbeats and couldn't hold a job anyway, but defining them to be criminals due to a minor drug conviction plus drug testing requirements puts legal impediments in the way that don't need to be there).

The only bright line between legal and illegal drugs at the U.S. Federal level is that legal ones were popular in Europe at the time of the American Founding, while illegal ones weren't. 
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 03, 2019, 10:07:13 AM
Actually, there are studies on the harms intrinsic in use of various drugs (both to the user and to others) that suggest "on a par with alcohol" would make the case for blanket legalization (see the graphic from a European study on drug harms here:  https://quillette.com/2019/08/12/rationalizing-modern-drug-prejudices/ (https://quillette.com/2019/08/12/rationalizing-modern-drug-prejudices/).)  Note where alcohol and 'shrooms end up in the ranking.

Many of the harms we associate with illegal drugs are caused not by their use or abuse but by their being illegal, or even when intrinsic to the use or abuse of the drug are exacerbated by their illegality.  These include deaths from drug gang turf wars (with no recourse to courts because their trade is illegal they settle disputes after the manner of Hobbes's state of nature), overdose deaths (exacerbated by illegality -- no quality control, even when the hit is really heroin, unmixed with fenantyl, the degree of purity can vary causing an overdode), unemployability of addicts (yeah, some will be just deadbeats and couldn't hold a job anyway, but defining them to be criminals due to a minor drug conviction plus drug testing requirements puts legal impediments in the way that don't need to be there).

The only bright line between legal and illegal drugs at the U.S. Federal level is that legal ones were popular in Europe at the time of the American Founding, while illegal ones weren't.
That ignores a seminal difference between Americans and Europeans. We drive. Everywhere. Almost all of us.
One of the nastiest killers remains auto accidents. With no incentive to not be caught and charged with posession and/or use, often a felony, the number of impaired drivers would likely go up. I really don't care what people do at home, but on the road, that complicates travel, sometimes with lethal results. Drunks are bad enough, people on their phones are a real hazard, why add more to that mix?
Now, I know, some are going to be making bad choices, either way, otherwise there wouldn't be the alcohol related deaths out there that there are, but why say it's okay to do other drugs when it is predictable that more of those will end up behind the wheel?
I recall reading that despite the revenue in Colorado, only about 50% of sales are taxed, which means there is still a rollicking black market. To think that would go away for other drugs, that turf wars would stop is just silly.
While people in this state voted 60% in favor of medical marijuana, they voted 60% against recreational use. Kindly don't overturn the will of the people here by Federal Decree.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: The_Reader_David on October 03, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
That ignores a seminal difference between Americans and Europeans. We drive. Everywhere. Almost all of us.


So redo the study here.  If it's less harmful to both user and others than alcohol once the data is in, there is no reason to keep it illegal and not treat it, as is done with alcoholism, as a health problem, rather than a crime problem.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 03, 2019, 11:44:30 AM
So Schrooms  are on the far least harmful side of the European ranking of drug harms table and are illegal, but Belladonna that is far more dangerous than Alcohol, is totally legal, and not even on the table at all.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 03, 2019, 01:25:13 PM
What?

You would keep Shrooms Illegal?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSftV-wct-W8g-CKifTtXTksRka1JOFaSlZGycYYXxggRWTwweG)

They are legal in Denver now.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 03, 2019, 01:26:41 PM
Keep the masses stoned and strung out and they won't care what the government does to tear down the country...as long as they can get their next fix.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: OfTheCross on October 03, 2019, 01:28:43 PM
Keep the masses stoned and strung out and they won't care what the government does to tear down the country...as long as they can get their next fix.

If that's the case we should ban alcohol again, and anything else that may get you inebriated
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 03, 2019, 02:05:19 PM
If that's the case we should ban alcohol again, and anything else that may get you inebriated

Typical stoner answer to justify legalizing drugs.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Applewood on October 03, 2019, 02:29:32 PM
Our Goobernor Wolf just announced he's going forward with decriminalizing recreational marijuana in Pennsylvania.  Most of us knew he would once medicinal marijuana was legalized. 

This country has spent bazillions on the "War on Drugs" and really hasn't had much success in curbing the flow of narcotics.  They are all still plentiful and easy to obtain.  Now the states are spending still more of our tax dollars on the so-called opioid epidemic.  About all they've managed to accomplish there is to put a pharmaceutical company out of business. 

Seems to me we will never be rid of anything that makes people high, drunk and/or stupid.   We no longer advocate personal responsibility.  We have to have government tell us how to behave and what to do, and if we do wrong, causing harm to ourselves or someone else, we look to government to clean up the mess. 

I say, make it all legal.  If you overdose or cause harm to others, it's your responsibility.  You suffer the consequences.  Don't look to us responsible citizens and taxpayers to help you out. 
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: OfTheCross on October 03, 2019, 02:41:36 PM
Typical stoner answer to justify legalizing drugs.

If the drug is essentially as mild as alcohol, no reason it shouldn't be legalized and treated the same
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Sighlass on October 03, 2019, 03:13:07 PM
If the drug is essentially as mild as alcohol, no reason it shouldn't be legalized and treated the same

I once worked in a steel fabrication plant, ever worked with two ton Hyster drivers flying by ya all day? Yeah, I wanted those drivers tested for drugs pretty regularly. Ever see what a Hyster can do to a support pole in the center of a building?

What drug is mild in your opinion. I am 6'4" tall (over 210lbs at the time) and tried pot once, and flipped out. It was not laced with anything, but it reacted with me violently. There is no 100% safe drugs beyond water, and even that will kill you if taken in excess. Over time I have shrunk somewhat (still around 6'3" and a little heavier) but I will remember that one half joint to the day I lose my memory (and not fondly).
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 03, 2019, 03:50:58 PM
If the drug is essentially as mild as alcohol, no reason it shouldn't be legalized and treated the same

Alcohol? MILD? You must be sh*tting me.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 03, 2019, 03:56:10 PM
(https://i1.wp.com/d24fkeqntp1r7r.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/14025048/Harm.png)
                       European ranking of drug harms, 2015
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: truth_seeker on October 03, 2019, 04:24:36 PM
European ranking chart above, places alcohol and heroin as the most harmful to the user, and to others

I served in the US Army in West Germany, where it was legal to have an open container in the vehicle, however drunk driving was an automatic felony.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 03, 2019, 04:56:39 PM
European ranking chart above, places alcohol and heroin as the most harmful to the user, and to others

I served in the US Army in West Germany, where it was legal to have an open container in the vehicle, however drunk driving was an automatic felony.

Open containers were legal in Texas until Sept 2001.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: goatprairie on October 03, 2019, 05:35:02 PM
I'm probably the only person you'll ever meet who has never been drunk nor high.

I went to Woodstock and didn't touch any drugs.

As an American G.I. in Germany, I went to the Hofbrau House in Munich -- one of the most famous beer houses of them all -- and ordered "ein cola, bitte"...
"I'm probably the only person you'll ever meet who has never been drunk nor high."

You'd be wrong.  I've had the occasional beer, sniffed second hand pot at rock concerts, but never been drunk or high either.  I saw too many relatives who wrecked their families through alcoholism. Booze or drugs never had any attraction for me. Cost me some friends, but I've never done things I didn't want to do just to please other people or make friends.  Except for my wife, of course. :scared smiley:
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 03, 2019, 06:22:39 PM
If the drug is essentially as mild as alcohol, no reason it shouldn't be legalized and treated the same

Except it's not.  And they are not the same.  I live in a state where it's legal...both recreational and medicinal.  They are not the same.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 03, 2019, 06:24:14 PM
Alcohol? MILD? You must be sh*tting me.

Well when all he's ever had is White Claw....    :whistle:
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: bigheadfred on October 03, 2019, 06:41:34 PM
If the drug is essentially as mild as alcohol, no reason it shouldn't be legalized and treated the same

uh huh

What is the difference between a meth head and a pothead? Both will steal your shit, but a meth head will help you look for it.

Alcohol is so mild they banned it.

@OfTheCross

You understand, by your screen name, the full implications of pharmakeia.

I would say something else. But out of respect for this forum, and not you, I will not. And THAT is saying something.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 03, 2019, 06:48:15 PM
You understand, by your screen name, the full implications of pharmakeia.

That's right - Or he/she/it ought to...
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 04, 2019, 12:27:26 AM
Keep the masses stoned and strung out and they won't care what the government does to tear down the country...as long as they can get their next fix.
Yep. I have seen people who thought they were being intelligent fail miserably while under the influence of a variety of substances. As for 'no more harmful than alcohol', do we really want to double down, even on that? Isn't the judgement of Americans impaired enough yet?

For years I have thought the Congress should be drug tested, right along with commercial drivers, oilfield workers, and a host of others who do things that can get themselves or others killed.

But having an effed up workforce is a guarantee of success, right?  9999hair out0000
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 04, 2019, 12:37:12 AM
Our Goobernor Wolf just announced he's going forward with decriminalizing recreational marijuana in Pennsylvania.  Most of us knew he would once medicinal marijuana was legalized. 

This country has spent bazillions on the "War on Drugs" and really hasn't had much success in curbing the flow of narcotics.  They are all still plentiful and easy to obtain.  Now the states are spending still more of our tax dollars on the so-called opioid epidemic.  About all they've managed to accomplish there is to put a pharmaceutical company out of business. 

Seems to me we will never be rid of anything that makes people high, drunk and/or stupid.   We no longer advocate personal responsibility.  We have to have government tell us how to behave and what to do, and if we do wrong, causing harm to ourselves or someone else, we look to government to clean up the mess. 

I say, make it all legal.  If you overdose or cause harm to others, it's your responsibility.  You suffer the consequences.  Don't look to us responsible citizens and taxpayers to help you out.
In reality, it is exactly the taxpayers and responsible citizens who will bail the users out, pay for rehab, pay for those injured from the womb to old age, and clean up the abattoirs on the highways. Who else will take care of that. THere won't be a 'stoner lane', either, so don't expect that to be any safer.
As for curbing the flow of drugs into this country, that has to be done at the borders, and that is being fought tooth and nail.

In addition, ever read the questions on a form 4473? legality changes haven't changed the questions, nor the outcome if the answer is incorrect. This is a great way to remove a Right.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 04, 2019, 01:28:33 AM
Between the medical cost to restore health to a drunkard, disease leading to death, accidents, and the outcome of accidents, alcohol is easily the biggest killer there is... Eclipsing gun violence by an order or two in magnitude.

'Mild as alcohol' my a**  *****rollingeyes*****

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: OfTheCross on October 04, 2019, 08:14:24 AM
Between the medical cost to restore health to a drunkard, disease leading to death, accidents, and the outcome of accidents, alcohol is easily the biggest killer there is... Eclipsing gun violence by an order or two in magnitude.

'Mild as alcohol' my a**  *****rollingeyes*****

to all:

alcohol is so mild that we have a smiley of it  :beer:

If someone takes two shots of vodka or two hits of a joint they both be impaired at a mild level. Let's not act like doing either will have most human beings acting crazy. They'd be buzzed.

Any drug that's on that level should be OK for ages 21 and over. Or let's ban alcohol again, too
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 04, 2019, 10:45:57 AM
to all:

alcohol is so mild that we have a smiley of it  :beer:

Oh SNAP!!! I guess you really got us there didn't you junior?   *****rollingeyes*****

Quote
If someone takes two shots of vodka or two hits of a joint they both be impaired at a mild level. Let's not act like doing either will have most human beings acting crazy. They'd be buzzed.

So when was the last time you enhanced a shot of vodka with PCP...or mixed ether into a nice glas of Stoli?   You like to stir in some cocaine or a little heroin in your Smirnoff before you sip it?

Because those are other harder drugs that someone you think is only "mildly" impaired off of a couple hits of a join lace that joint with to get a stronger high.  So no equating a couple shots of Vodka to a couple tokes off of a join is a false equivalent.

Quote
Any drug that's on that level should be OK for ages 21 and over. Or let's ban alcohol again, too

You need to quit cutting and pasting propaganda from the NORML website.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 04, 2019, 02:40:48 PM
to all:

alcohol is so mild that we have a smiley of it  :beer:

If someone takes two shots of vodka or two hits of a joint they both be impaired at a mild level. Let's not act like doing either will have most human beings acting crazy. They'd be buzzed.

Any drug that's on that level should be OK for ages 21 and over. Or let's ban alcohol again, too

Well that is the most absurd standard there could possibly be...

The problem son, is that PEOPLE DON'T STOP at 1 or 2 shots/hits. What a dumass thing to say.
There is ONE legit way to get high. Why complicate it by adding more, when that is more than enough to control on its own?

As to banning alcohol - I am all for it, except for my medicinal use. I reserve the right to get totally sh*t-faced to control my pain.

Like I said in the first place, it ought to be up to the states. So if you want to get lit, go move to Denver. Don't impose it on me.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: bigheadfred on October 04, 2019, 09:20:18 PM
@OfTheCross

hmmm...

The willingness.

hmmmm...

Your entire purpose to join this forum wasn't for a comfortable screaming match between reasonable individuals. It was something else.

Enough.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 09:34:03 PM
   I smoke a little pot, on occasion, and I don't advocate the Fed getting involved at all and would reluctantly accept a State solution, because there isn't a problem, IMHO. 
  There are much more kids TXT'ing while driving and killing than driving while stoned.
  Address the REAL Problem, reprobates among US.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 04, 2019, 09:41:53 PM
   I smoke a little pot, on occasion, and I don't advocate the Fed getting involved at all and would reluctantly accept a State solution, because there isn't a problem, IMHO. 
  There are much more kids TXT'ing while driving and killing than driving while stoned.
  Address the REAL Problem, reprobates among US.
Yabbut, cell phone possession is legal, and not just for medical purposes.

It isn't just kids, I have seen middle aged people who were so involved in their phones they sat through green lights. It gets worse in motion.

But outright legalization means it's okay, right? (as in socially acceptable).

If that happens, it will be used on the highways even more, and despite all the gadgets to keep us all safe (seat belts, air bags, side air bags, crumple zones, telescoping steering columns, lane warning devices, blind spot indicators, etc.), more people will die.

We have known drunk driving was a problem since the first drunk fell off the freight wagon and got crushed under the wheels, and the problem hasn't gone away. 
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: corbe on October 04, 2019, 09:57:21 PM
   They just seemed to handle it better back when I was growing up, before Big Government took over.

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AE0c4MVxshs/hqdefault.jpg)

   Otis, the only Character on the Andy Griffith Show that WAS married.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: OfTheCross on October 05, 2019, 08:22:33 AM
@OfTheCross

hmmm...

The willingness.

hmmmm...

Your entire purpose to join this forum wasn't for a comfortable screaming match between reasonable individuals. It was something else.

Enough.

I don't like screaming, name-calling etc. I typically exit conversations when they devolve in that nature.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Axeslinger on October 05, 2019, 08:43:05 AM
I don't like screaming, name-calling etc. I typically exit conversations when they devolve in that nature.

And yet...you push virtually every conversation here exactly to that point with your inanity.

Hmmm...some might call BS.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: OfTheCross on October 05, 2019, 08:48:26 AM
And yet...you push virtually every conversation here exactly to that point with your inanity.

Hmmm...some might call BS.

Nonsense.

I haven't done anything but offer my thoughts and opinions as others have. I haven't gotten into and screaming or name-calling matches with anyone here.

If a conversation takes that tone it's not because of my actions.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminali
Post by: Axeslinger on October 05, 2019, 09:09:56 AM
Nonsense.

I haven't done anything but offer my thoughts and opinions as others have. I haven't gotten into and screaming or name-calling matches with anyone here.

If a conversation takes that tone it's not because of my actions.

When someone “says” they’re engaging in good faith debate, but then steadfastly refuses to acknowledge other’s facts because it contradicts their own inane bias, and then just keeps spouting their refuted points over and over and over again...
Yeah...some might call BS.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminali
Post by: OfTheCross on October 05, 2019, 09:45:10 AM
When someone “says” they’re engaging in good faith debate, but then steadfastly refuses to acknowledge other’s facts because it contradicts their own inane bias, and then just keeps spouting their refuted points over and over and over again...
Yeah...some might call BS.

Well you're certainly not speaking of me at this point. If so, give some examples of me refusing to acknowledge other's facts.

You can PM me or start another thread in Members Only or General Discussion as to not continue to derail this one.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 09, 2019, 09:56:48 PM
Oregon Is Poised to Legalize Shrooms. It’s Just the Beginning

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmjwv4/oregon-legalized-weed-shrooms-cocaine-meth-heroin-could-be-next (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmjwv4/oregon-legalized-weed-shrooms-cocaine-meth-heroin-could-be-next)

Quote
“We see this not only as a template for Oregon but for the rest of the country and the world."

Why not Oregon?

That's the question advocates are asking as they try to make the state the nexus of the next wave of drug policy reform in the United States.

Two separate local campaigns are currently working to get what might be the two most far- reaching drug reforms in recent American history on the 2020 ballot. One centers on legalizing psychedelic "shroom" therapy; the other would decriminalize almost all drugs, period.

There is no single reason the state is so well-positioned to be a laboratory for drug reform. Instead, imagine a vast, multi-layered Venn diagram including public health needs, quirks of local history, unique funding opportunities, costs, arcane ballot access rules, demographics, and politics.

“We see this not only as a template for Oregon but for the rest of the country and the world,” said Sheri Eckert, one of the chief petitioners for the Psilocybin Service Initiative of Oregon (PSI 2020), which would make Oregon the first state to legalize access to psilocybin-assisted therapy statewide.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 09, 2019, 09:58:35 PM
Oregon Is Poised to Legalize Shrooms. It’s Just the Beginning

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmjwv4/oregon-legalized-weed-shrooms-cocaine-meth-heroin-could-be-next (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/zmjwv4/oregon-legalized-weed-shrooms-cocaine-meth-heroin-could-be-next)

Denver just legalized them 3 months ago  **nononono*
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 10, 2019, 02:44:55 AM
Denver just legalized them 3 months ago  **nononono*
Well, we both work at jobs where people can (and occasionally do) get killed or maimed, just in the day to day operations (even in peacetime, in yours). I have been Fire/EMS, driven dump trucks, operated heavy equipment, engaged in marine construction, been a geologist on oil rigs, roughnecked, done pipeline work, fitted structural steel, and done a variety of construction work, among other things in the last 47 years.

I can't honestly say I have ever seen people who could safely (relatively speaking) do those jobs while messed up, be that from alcohol or any other drug, including some OTC stuff. I would wager your experiences are similar, in that if your head isn't in the game, completely, things just might not go well.


I saw the signs along the interstate in Colorado: "Pull wrecked vehicles out of the roadway." I have never seen signs like that anywhere else. 

That spoke volumes. First that there were enough wrecks along that corridor up the Front Range that the reminder was there in the first place (they had signs made up, just for that), and second, that people needed to be reminded that leaving their wrecked or damaged vehicle in lanes of traffic might not be such a good idea. (Duh).  :facepalm:

But the tax revenue!  **nononono*

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: The_Reader_David on October 13, 2019, 11:11:06 PM

I saw the signs along the interstate in Colorado: "Pull wrecked vehicles out of the roadway." I have never seen signs like that anywhere else. 


That has to do with population density, not pot legalization.  I've seen analogous signs in the Northeast back when I lived there in the 80's, in California while visiting both the Bay Area in the '90's and the LA basin more recently, and on the Interstates running through suburban Chicago, and they were there in the heavily congested parts of the Interstates near Denver before they legalized pot.   No, we don't have them in Kansas, and they don't have them in eastern Colorado either. 
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: InHeavenThereIsNoBeer on October 13, 2019, 11:20:08 PM
Well, we both work at jobs where people can (and occasionally do) get killed or maimed, just in the day to day operations (even in peacetime, in yours). I have been Fire/EMS, driven dump trucks, operated heavy equipment, engaged in marine construction, been a geologist on oil rigs, roughnecked, done pipeline work, fitted structural steel, and done a variety of construction work, among other things in the last 47 years.

I can't honestly say I have ever seen people who could safely (relatively speaking) do those jobs while messed up, be that from alcohol or any other drug, including some OTC stuff. I would wager your experiences are similar, in that if your head isn't in the game, completely, things just might not go well.


I saw the signs along the interstate in Colorado: "Pull wrecked vehicles out of the roadway." I have never seen signs like that anywhere else. 

That spoke volumes. First that there were enough wrecks along that corridor up the Front Range that the reminder was there in the first place (they had signs made up, just for that), and second, that people needed to be reminded that leaving their wrecked or damaged vehicle in lanes of traffic might not be such a good idea. (Duh).  :facepalm:

But the tax revenue!  **nononono*
 

I've seen signs like that in FL.  It could be for the people who come from States where you're not supposed to move vehicles (tamper with evidence) until LEO shows up. 

Kind of like the 'bridges freeze before roadway' signs you see in the South.  Obvious to many of us, but still worth warning those unaware.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 13, 2019, 11:35:01 PM
That has to do with population density, not pot legalization.  I've seen analogous signs in the Northeast back when I lived there in the 80's, in California while visiting both the Bay Area in the '90's and the LA basin more recently, and on the Interstates running through suburban Chicago, and they were there in the heavily congested parts of the Interstates near Denver before they legalized pot.   No, we don't have them in Kansas, and they don't have them in eastern Colorado either.

I don't remember the hwy numbers... But that exchange from Kansas westbound to northbound out of Denver...  Probably no big deal for city folks... But I loathe that switch like the plague. As soon as you hit the freeway, entering on the left as I recall, then merge straight across 6 lanes in heavy traffic to get to the northbound exit on the right side of the freeway... all within what seems to be something like a quarter or half mile.  **nononono*

If I ever go through there again, I will not enter Denver.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 14, 2019, 04:52:07 AM
I don't remember the hwy numbers... But that exchange from Kansas westbound to northbound out of Denver...  Probably no big deal for city folks... But I loathe that switch like the plague. As soon as you hit the freeway, entering on the left as I recall, then merge straight across 6 lanes in heavy traffic to get to the northbound exit on the right side of the freeway... all within what seems to be something like a quarter or half mile.  **nononono*

If I ever go through there again, I will not enter Denver.
It's a nicer drive up the East side of the Black Hills, or even through Cheyenne and up on I-25, then if you want to go west, hop on I-94 if you want to make time.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 14, 2019, 04:52:52 AM
That has to do with population density, not pot legalization.  I've seen analogous signs in the Northeast back when I lived there in the 80's, in California while visiting both the Bay Area in the '90's and the LA basin more recently, and on the Interstates running through suburban Chicago, and they were there in the heavily congested parts of the Interstates near Denver before they legalized pot.   No, we don't have them in Kansas, and they don't have them in eastern Colorado either.
Well, just my opinion, but in general, some populations are more dense than others. Somehow, you just described a bunch of places inhabited by Leftists...
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 14, 2019, 05:25:29 AM
It's a nicer drive up the East side of the Black Hills, or even through Cheyenne and up on I-25, then if you want to go west, hop on I-94 if you want to make time.

If I go back there, I take the highline over to Chicago... Then Indiana and Michigan... Then south for Nashville, Mississippi, Missouri, and then KC across to western Kansas. That's the run to visit all my kin.
Then I am northbound. Up through Colorado and Wyoming, and on home.

Went through Nebraska one time specifically to avoid Denver.  :shrug:
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 14, 2019, 05:40:14 AM
If I go back there, I take the highline over to Chicago... Then Indiana and Michigan... Then south for Nashville, Mississippi, Missouri, and then KC across to western Kansas. That's the run to visit all my kin.
Then I am northbound. Up through Colorado and Wyoming, and on home.

Went through Nebraska one time specifically to avoid Denver.  :shrug:
I avoid CHicago, run up Michigan's middle finger, over the Mackinac Bridge, and through Duluth and west on Highway 2.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 14, 2019, 12:58:06 PM
I avoid CHicago, run up Michigan's middle finger, over the Mackinac Bridge, and through Duluth and west on Highway 2.

I have been that way (Hwy 2)... Though never across the Mackinac... I have to go through Chicago. Though I WILL say that of all of back east, the only place that feels homey to me is that Michigan UP. I could live there. If I had to.
 
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: bigheadfred on October 14, 2019, 08:42:42 PM
We have signs saying to pull vehicles over to the side. Mostly for people experiencing car trouble. Most accidents on the freeway, at 80-90 MPH usually leave enough carnage to stop traffic. Kind of hard to drive a car off the road that is on its top in the middle of the highway.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on October 15, 2019, 09:49:02 AM
This is such a classic leftist issue.  They want absolute freedom, but don't want to bear the burden of responsibility for the consequences of their own bad choices.   "Legalize drugs...but you better provide me with expensive treatment, counseling, etc. at taxpayer expense if I become messed up.  And oh yeah, income and a place to live in the event my own crappy choices make me unable to hold a job."
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 15, 2019, 01:20:48 PM
This is such a classic leftist issue.  They want absolute freedom, but don't want to bear the burden of responsibility for the consequences of their own bad choices.   "Legalize drugs...but you better provide me with expensive treatment, counseling, etc. at taxpayer expense if I become messed up.  And oh yeah, income and a place to live in the event my own crappy choices make me unable to hold a job."

It's one of the core tenents of Liberalism/Progressiveism...never having to be held responsible for your your actions or life choices.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on October 15, 2019, 02:01:01 PM
It's one of the core tenents of Liberalism/Progressiveism...never having to be held responsible for your your actions or life choices.

It's weird -- they'll actually cling to that pretty openly.

I've had this exact discussion with some lefties about legalization.  They truly believe that people should be free to use whatever drugs they want, but that the rest of us should then provide tax dollars to help them out of whatever mess they've made of their lives as a result.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: truth_seeker on October 15, 2019, 02:33:01 PM
If I go back there, I take the highline over to Chicago... Then Indiana and Michigan... Then south for Nashville, Mississippi, Missouri, and then KC across to western Kansas. That's the run to visit all my kin.
Then I am northbound. Up through Colorado and Wyoming, and on home.

Went through Nebraska one time specifically to avoid Denver.  :shrug:
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoIfglXAbh0#)

My father had a favorite first cousin. Both Wyoming natives. The cousin drove truck, all over this fruited plain.

A lifelong practicing Mormon, neither drank or smoked. Read extensively. He was said to know every highway, on ramp from San Diego to Manhatten. Lived in Casper, drove out of Cheyenne.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: LMAO on October 15, 2019, 02:38:23 PM
It's one of the core tenents of Liberalism/Progressiveism...never having to be held responsible for your your actions or life choices.

That’s because Progressives have a simplistic, child like view of the world
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: txradioguy on October 15, 2019, 02:44:35 PM
That’s because Progressives have a simplistic, child like view of the world

That and no moral compass.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 15, 2019, 05:18:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoIfglXAbh0# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoIfglXAbh0#)

Thank you sir! Johnny Cash is a staple in this house.

Quote
My father had a favorite first cousin. Both Wyoming natives. The cousin drove truck, all over this fruited plain.

A lifelong practicing Mormon, neither drank or smoked. Read extensively. He was said to know every highway, on ramp from San Diego to Manhatten. Lived in Casper, drove out of Cheyenne.

It's a helluva run, and I absolutely hate it... From the minute them mountains recede on the horizon.
I am out of sorts anyway without em... My internal navigation shuts off without em. I am bloody well lost on the plains, all the time. Makes me jangley.

Cheyenne is about the southern most part of my proper wheelhouse. That run from Cheyenne to Sheridan on up through Billings is familiar, though Casper makes me itch...  I don't mind the high plains so much, But I always want to go west at Casper and run for the mountains. I like SLC to Boise way better. There's a whole lot of nothing between Cheyenne and Billings... And it is still another day after all that to get on home. But at least I am in the foothills around Big Timber or so... where my internal nav kicks back in.  :beer:
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Hoodat on October 15, 2019, 05:21:24 PM
There's a very good reason why they call it 'dope'.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: XenaLee on October 15, 2019, 05:46:08 PM
This is such a classic leftist issue.  They want absolute freedom, but don't want to bear the burden of responsibility for the consequences of their own bad choices.   "Legalize drugs...but you better provide me with expensive treatment, counseling, etc. at taxpayer expense if I become messed up. And oh yeah, income and a place to live in the event my own crappy choices make me unable to hold a job."

It would also provide them with a very convenient excuse when they got hooked on stronger drugs...ie "hey, they legalized the gateway drug, so not my fault".
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: truth_seeker on October 15, 2019, 06:19:14 PM
This is such a classic leftist issue.  They want absolute freedom, but don't want to bear the burden of responsibility for the consequences of their own bad choices.   "Legalize drugs...but you better provide me with expensive treatment, counseling, etc. at taxpayer expense if I become messed up.  And oh yeah, income and a place to live in the event my own crappy choices make me unable to hold a job."

Voters across this land, are opting to legalize drugs. And then to be upset when homeless addicts show up.

When I point this out, some claim the addicts are mentally ill, victims of bad families, and often victims of the lack of treatment resources.

I KNOW the latter, is not true.

I attend AA regularly, and these types are absent. When asked, they say it doesn't work for them..

When housing is offered they usually leave due to rules about curfew, testing etc.

Bottom line: Some just prefer the freedom, to a life of following rules, fitting in, working, etc.

The book of AA, said as much when published in 1939.

One surefire way to avoid addiction to drugs,, alcohol, tobacco is time tested: "Just Say No"

It is totally mind blowing to me, how many younger people will shoot heroin into their bodies.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: bigheadfred on October 15, 2019, 06:45:17 PM
Voters across this land, are opting to legalize drugs. And then to be upset when homeless addicts show up.

When I point this out, some claim the addicts are mentally ill, victims of bad families, and often victims of the lack of treatment resources.

I KNOW the latter, is not true.

I attend AA regularly, and these types are absent. When asked, they say it doesn't work for them..

When housing is offered they usually leave due to rules about curfew, testing etc.

Bottom line: Some just prefer the freedom, to a life of following rules, fitting in, working, etc.

The book of AA, said as much when published in 1939.

One surefire way to avoid addiction to drugs,, alcohol, tobacco is time tested: "Just Say No"

It is totally mind blowing to me, how many younger people will shoot heroin into their bodies.

I can tell you as a recovering addict, not just alcohol, but after having been there and done that, your freedom really comes by just saying no.

Works with "unwanted" pregnancies, too.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Hoodat on October 15, 2019, 06:50:27 PM
I can tell you as a recovering addict, not just alcohol, but after having been there and done that, your freedom really comes by just saying no.

My freedom came only after having a spiritual awakening as a result of working the steps.  I was 'clean' for a long time, but still a prisoner to self-will run riot.  I didn't start recovering until I began trusting God.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Sighlass on October 15, 2019, 06:54:35 PM
Voters across this land, are opting to legalize drugs. And then to be upset when homeless addicts show up.

When I point this out, some claim the addicts are mentally ill, victims of bad families, and often victims of the lack of treatment resources.

I KNOW the latter, is not true.

I attend AA regularly, and these types are absent. When asked, they say it doesn't work for them..

When housing is offered they usually leave due to rules about curfew, testing etc.

Bottom line: Some just prefer the freedom, to a life of following rules, fitting in, working, etc.

The book of AA, said as much when published in 1939.

One surefire way to avoid addiction to drugs,, alcohol, tobacco is time tested: "Just Say No"

It is totally mind blowing to me, how many younger people will shoot heroin into their bodies.

QFT... I still thank God the one time I tried pot that it had an adverse effect on me... Thank you Jesus...
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: bigheadfred on October 15, 2019, 07:12:16 PM
My freedom came only after having a spiritual awakening as a result of working the steps.  I was 'clean' for a long time, but still a prisoner to self-will run riot.  I didn't start recovering until I began trusting God.

Right. A HIGHER power.

In an attempt to not turn this into a religious discussion, I will leave it at that.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 15, 2019, 08:53:53 PM
There are all sorts of addictions.

Yes, I had a phase where I used drugs. First alcohol, then pot, then psychedelics, more pot, a snort or two of coke. Tried uppers and downers(didn't like em). My only drug addiction is caffeine and I've learned to cope with it.

My real addiction is my craving for knowledge. As a kid I read our entire set of encyclopedias and all the annuals as they came in. I then would pick a machine; electronics, computer, or mechanical. I would come up with a design, order the materials, and at first I would build it, only to cannibalize it for the next thing that I craved. After a while I would still order the parts, but by the time they came in I was already on the next project. After some years I realized I didn't have to build them, only understand and design them. That's the addiction I have learned to cope with.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: bigheadfred on October 15, 2019, 08:59:44 PM
There are all sorts of addictions.

Yes, I had a phase where I used drugs. First alcohol, then pot, then psychedelics, more pot, a snort or two of coke. Tried uppers and downers(didn't like em). My only drug addiction is caffeine and I've learned to cope with it.

My real addiction is my craving for knowledge. As a kid I read our entire set of encyclopedias and all the annuals as they came in. I then would pick a machine; electronics, computer, or mechanical. I would come up with a design, order the materials, and at first I would build it, only to cannibalize it for the next thing that I craved. After a while I would still order the parts, but by the time they came in I was already on the next project. After some years I realized I didn't have to build them, only understand and design them. That's the addiction I have learned to cope with.

All well and good.

How does your wife deal with that addiction?   :silly: :tongue2:
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: truth_seeker on October 15, 2019, 09:00:02 PM

Yes, I had a phase where I used drugs. First alcohol, then pot, then psychedelics, more pot, a snort or two of coke. Tried uppers and downers(didn't like em).
The fact you could experiment, but not have substances ruin your life, is the difference between an addict/alcoholic.

At some point the addic/alcoholic uses, because they think they have to.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 15, 2019, 09:07:15 PM
All well and good.

How does your wife deal with that addiction?   :silly: :tongue2:

She never knew what I was building in my "Man Cave".
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 15, 2019, 09:31:35 PM
My real addiction is my craving for knowledge. As a kid I read our entire set of encyclopedias and all the annuals as they came in. I then would pick a machine; electronics, computer, or mechanical. I would come up with a design, order the materials, and at first I would build it, only to cannibalize it for the next thing that I craved. After a while I would still order the parts, but by the time they came in I was already on the next project. After some years I realized I didn't have to build them, only understand and design them. That's the addiction I have learned to cope with.

That's part of what set me straight too - The crap work and crap thinking I did when lit... It must have seemed fine at the time, but those drunken epiphanies seldom where functionally good, whether in design or construction.

Getting shook of the beer fridge, and the friends who came over to partake, was probably the hardest thing.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 15, 2019, 09:40:14 PM
Except I never let any drugs get in the way of my "knowledge and design addiction". That controlled me much more than any drug.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 15, 2019, 09:58:39 PM
Except I never let any drugs get in the way of my "knowledge and design addiction". That controlled me much more than any drug.

Yeah, I know. But it creeps up on you. Or it did me... The core after 5 set down at the local speed shop was two master fabricators, a civil engineer, a mechanical engineer, a master machinist, a master carpenter, and me.

The stuff I learned after hours getting sauced with those guys really shaped my life. After the speed shop shut down, my buddy's mechanic shop served as the next generation - He and I were the kings there, with another group of hard core guys. After that, my paint shop became the next after 5, and we partied there a ton. And my computer lab followed suit, but in a more geekified way.

But there was a distinct pattern of destruction in all of those places... All of them started out more cerebral, doing crazy things that we should not have been able to do (with what we had), with a bit of beer to lubricate the process... leading eventually to drunk and disorderly with poor ideas and poor production, whereupon dissolution was inevitable.

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: bigheadfred on October 15, 2019, 10:00:21 PM
She never knew what I was building in my "Man Cave".

Oh, you have a man cave. I have a memory of going over to a friend's house. He had one head off a 351 on the coffee table. The other on the kitchen counter...she was... :silly:

Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 15, 2019, 10:11:50 PM
Well my Man Cave is actually the garage. I did once work on a 100 hp outboard power head in my kitchen,  but that was before we married. I had cranked it over doing a compression test. I then sprayed it down with some penetrating oil. I took a break, ate a piece of pie, and when I went back to work on it, there were fireants everywhere. They must have been down in the water jacket until the fumes got to them.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 16, 2019, 05:27:29 AM
I have been that way (Hwy 2)... Though never across the Mackinac... I have to go through Chicago. Though I WILL say that of all of back east, the only place that feels homey to me is that Michigan UP. I could live there. If I had to.
Yeah, nice country, enough geology to keep me interested, water nearby, It's a pretty neat area. Unfortunately, most of the other states Id consider, if money were no object, have been overrun by Communist types in a soft coup the people don't even see, but it has been a product of the last 40 years of morphing government and growing leftist influence. If I were 20-30 years younger, I'd consider Alaska, but I'm a mite gray around the muzzle for that now.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 16, 2019, 09:15:06 AM
Yeah, nice country, enough geology to keep me interested, water nearby, It's a pretty neat area. Unfortunately, most of the other states Id consider, if money were no object, have been overrun by Communist types in a soft coup the people don't even see, but it has been a product of the last 40 years of morphing government and growing leftist influence. If I were 20-30 years younger, I'd consider Alaska, but I'm a mite gray around the muzzle for that now.

Well, when the time comes, come on over to MT/ID/WY... You'd be most welcome.
It ain't AK, but it's dang close... Just not many moose tags.  :shrug:

It ain't them hardwood sticks you probably yearn for, But you've been out west long enough that the tall pines don't scare you none... And besides, compared to NoDak, it's balmy.  :laugh: 
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Smokin Joe on October 17, 2019, 01:15:14 PM
Well, when the time comes, come on over to MT/ID/WY... You'd be most welcome.
It ain't AK, but it's dang close... Just not many moose tags.  :shrug:

It ain't them hardwood sticks you probably yearn for, But you've been out west long enough that the tall pines don't scare you none... And besides, compared to NoDak, it's balmy.  :laugh:
Likely, I'll have to win the lottery first...
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: OfTheCross on October 17, 2019, 02:13:48 PM
Decriminalizing =/= Legalizing.

I feel like that has to be said.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: Elderberry on October 17, 2019, 03:36:45 PM
Decriminalizing =/= Legalizing.

I feel like that has to be said.

Not always. It also can mean that although it's still on the books as illegal, no one is being arrested for possession anymore.  That is happening now a lot in Texas for pot possession as its too expensive to test it for its THC level.
Title: Re: 55% of Americans Favor Decriminalizing Drugs
Post by: roamer_1 on October 17, 2019, 07:12:57 PM
Decriminalizing =/= Legalizing.

I feel like that has to be said.

For all intensive porpoises, yes it does.