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General Category => Editorial/Opinion => Topic started by: mystery-ak on August 24, 2019, 10:43:52 AM

Title: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: mystery-ak on August 24, 2019, 10:43:52 AM
Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Julio Rivera

Posted: Aug 24, 2019 12:01 AM

Is Democrat on Democrat shade is going mainstream? Probably not, but the Bill Maher/Rashida Tlaib feud is just the latest high-profile example of division within the ranks of the left, with potential ramifications involving the long-term loyalties of Jewish voters.

Have Jewish liberals, who count among their rank’s notable Americans including Sarah Silverman, Bette Midler, Seth Rogan, Jon Stewart and so many other outwardly anti-Trump individuals, allowed the blind hatred they feel over the president, who has been a great ally to Israel and American Jews, to take precedence over their religious values?

The issue inflaming tensions between Maher and Tlaib center around Tlaib’s support of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) Movement. Maher ripped the movement, which has been supported by not only Tlaib, but also her “Squad” sister Congresswoman Ilhan Omar (D-MN), as “a bulls**t purity test by people who want to appear woke and have actually slept through history class,” and added that BDS is “predicated on this notion that is very shallow thinking, that the Jews are in Israel are mostly white and the Palestinians are browner so they must be innocent and correct and the Jews must be wrong.”

more
https://townhall.com/columnists/juliorosas/2019/08/24/evil-in-plain-sight-are-liberal-americans-becoming-increasingly-ignorant-or-immoral-n2552123
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: PeteS in CA on August 24, 2019, 11:11:16 AM
Not all liberals are either, but many are both.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: The_Reader_David on August 24, 2019, 05:41:47 PM
Jewish "liberals" have no religious values, or at least none that haven't been trimmed to comport exactly with whatever the latest enthusiasms of the Left happen to be.  Orthodox Jews, who take the dictates of their religion very seriously, tend to vote Republican.

I am reminded of a story my father told about his days working as a beach attendant at a hotel in Atlantic City (long, long ago before it ceased to be a tourist destination, the hotels fell into disrepair and the vain attempt to revive it as a tourist destination by introducing casino gambling was undertaken).  One of his favorite customers was a Jewish woman with whom he became friendly enough to strike up conversations.  He remarked on her absence from the beach on one occasion, and she explained that it was the High Holy Days, and that she had spent the day in prayer and fasting.  He observed that two other patrons of the hotel (I forget the surnames, but they were stereotypically Jewish, say Mssrs. Cohen and Goldfarb) had been to the beach as usual.  She made a spitting noise and said, "They're not Jews, they're kikes!"  (The significance of a pious Jew applying what is usually an antisemitic slur to two ostensible Jews, being that all that's left of their Jewishness is being anti-Christian, so that were they illiterate they'd use a circle, rather than a cross to sign their names.)  So it is with most Jewish "liberals".
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 24, 2019, 05:56:17 PM
Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?

In the greater context of that title, beyond the Semitic tones of the article - the answer is yes - Liberalism is largely about the acceptance and license of that which has historically been defined as immoral/evil.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Bigun on August 24, 2019, 06:03:30 PM
Quote
Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.
Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 25, 2019, 11:59:56 AM
Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963
Compare now to then, and the Communists have just about completed their list. They declared Communism "dead", rebranded, and made sure that the succeeding generations were ignorant and their greatest attacker discredited, even as Soviet documents released and testimony of former KGB indicate that he was on the right track.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Bigun on August 25, 2019, 12:19:57 PM
Compare now to then, and the Communists have just about completed their list. They declared Communism "dead", rebranded, and made sure that the succeeding generations were ignorant and their greatest attacker discredited, even as Soviet documents released and testimony of former KGB indicate that he was on the right track.

If you don't already have one @Smokin Joe, get a copy of this book Blacklisted by History (https://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068/ref=asc_df_1400081068/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138857801418&psc=1) . It's ALL there! Chapter and verse.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 25, 2019, 12:53:00 PM
If you don't already have one @Smokin Joe, get a copy of this book Blacklisted by History (https://www.amazon.com/Blacklisted-History-Senator-McCarthy-Americas/dp/1400081068/ref=asc_df_1400081068/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584138857801418&psc=1) . It's ALL there! Chapter and verse.
Thanks!
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Absalom on August 25, 2019, 03:12:35 PM
Ignorance and immorality are  hardly limited to libs!!!
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 25, 2019, 03:16:12 PM
Ignorance and immorality are  hardly limited to libs!!!
True enough.
It is the same for evil.
But there is a mindset that permits such, and for those of us who keep getting back to the concept of 'principles', that mindset is readily evident in most, betrayed by their actions.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: bigheadfred on August 25, 2019, 03:21:45 PM
They have more access to media platforms to be heard. Other than that, I doubt there is an increase.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 25, 2019, 03:29:42 PM
They have more access to media platforms to be heard. Other than that, I doubt there is an increase.
Oh, i think there is a definite increase in ignorance. A for immorality, I think that is more exposed, and has likely always been there to some extent, in closets and such.
The idea that that behaviour may be 'normal' contributes to an increase in the behaviour (look at out of wedlock birth rates, for instance), and that can be attributed to media exposure, desensitization of the public, and normalizing that behaviour by plot lines and casting in everything from sitcoms to drama to the big screen (just an extension of moral ignorance).
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 25, 2019, 03:40:36 PM
Oh, i think there is a definite increase in ignorance. A for immorality, I think that is more exposed, and has likely always been there to some extent, in closets and such.
The idea that that behaviour may be 'normal' contributes to an increase in the behaviour (look at out of wedlock birth rates, for instance), and that can be attributed to media exposure, desensitization of the public, and normalizing that behaviour by plot lines and casting in everything from sitcoms to drama to the big screen (just an extension of moral ignorance).

I disagree. I think immorality is exploding. Exponentially.

It is almost to the point now that few can remember when divorce and bastard children were rare... When homosexuality, pedophilia, and beastiality were almost literally unheard of.
Were they there? Of a surety. Were they common? In no way.

As a child, in 5th grade, in a suburb of Chicago, I had a range and freedom my own children would have been jealous of, not to mention the range I had once we moved out here.

There is a reason why children are kept at home, and while a portion may be 'helicopter moms' I think the reasons are valid, and prove the case.

Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 25, 2019, 03:50:03 PM
I disagree. I think immorality is exploding. Exponentially.

It is almost to the point now that few can remember when divorce and bastard children were rare... When homosexuality, pedophilia, and beastiality were almost literally unheard of.
Were they there? Of a surety. Were they common? In no way.

As a child, in 5th grade, in a suburb of Chicago, I had a range and freedom my own children would have been jealous of, not to mention the range I had once we moved out here.

There is a reason why children are kept at home, and while a portion may be 'helicopter moms' I think the reasons are valid, and prove the case.
Unusually, I worded that awkwardly. While I said that immorality has always been there (we heard about a guy having relations with chickens when I was in college, but that didn't make the papers), it is now presenting its face to the world, unabashed. Sure, that makes for an increase, because it has been 'normalized' by the media to the point where people just aren't shocked any more. (Disgusted, but act shocked, and the Left will call out the 'phobia' nazis on you.)

That's why I mentioned the rate of bastardy, it's just one example.

Even more insidious things are commonplace in the media, even 'protected' by law from being vigorously decried, and that makes the evil bolder.

But at the root of all this are ignorance (of what people ought to act like), and the evil of convincing them to even say things (outside of being sarcastic) like "...not that there is anything wrong with _____", when yes, it is terribly wrong.

Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Absalom on August 25, 2019, 03:58:50 PM
True enough.
It is the same for evil.
But there is a mindset that permits such, and for those of us who keep getting back to the concept of 'principles', that mindset is readily evident in most, betrayed by their actions.
-----------------------------------
Indeed the noun Principles is on prominent display over the China Tariffs.
China cheats, lies and steals, as they have for some 4000 years;
dishonorable and unprincipled behavior that is part of their culture.
So we impose tariffs to force behavioral change.
And what do we hear from our political assholery and schmucks???
Why you're hurting us (translation; our wallets are lighter.)
Wallets always trump principles for these frauds and hustlers!!!

Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: bigheadfred on August 25, 2019, 04:05:48 PM
Oh, i think there is a definite increase in ignorance. A for immorality, I think that is more exposed, and has likely always been there to some extent, in closets and such.
The idea that that behaviour may be 'normal' contributes to an increase in the behaviour (look at out of wedlock birth rates, for instance), and that can be attributed to media exposure, desensitization of the public, and normalizing that behaviour by plot lines and casting in everything from sitcoms to drama to the big screen (just an extension of moral ignorance).

Have you heard of the Flynn Effect?

There is a definite increase in the dumbing down of all of Americans to be sure. Ignorant of facts. Ignorant of history. Ignorance increased by the lies, misdirection, and being mislead by the MSM.

People more ready to let someone else do their thinking. The hive mind.

But not any less intelligent.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 25, 2019, 05:25:02 PM
Have you heard of the Flynn Effect?

There is a definite increase in the dumbing down of all of Americans to be sure. Ignorant of facts. Ignorant of history. Ignorance increased by the lies, misdirection, and being mislead by the MSM.

People more ready to let someone else do their thinking. The hive mind.

But not any less intelligent.
I see ignorance as the amount of knowledge someone has.
(you can be intelligent, but if you don't know what "two" is, you can't add a pair of them.)

Intelligence is the ability to do things with that knowledge.
(you might know what two is, but be unable to add)

Wisdom is the ability to do good things with it, and transcends intelligence.
(just because you can, doesn't mean you should...)

But, as for all systems, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

We have reached the level of intellectual laziness, that even given facts to the contrary, people are willing to have those facts interpreted for them in false and misleading ways, because thinking may requite effort.

Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 25, 2019, 05:25:29 PM
Unusually, I worded that awkwardly. While I said that immorality has always been there (we heard about a guy having relations with chickens when I was in college, but that didn't make the papers), it is now presenting its face to the world, unabashed. Sure, that makes for an increase, because it has been 'normalized' by the media to the point where people just aren't shocked any more. (Disgusted, but act shocked, and the Left will call out the 'phobia' nazis on you.)

That's why I mentioned the rate of bastardy, it's just one example.

Even more insidious things are commonplace in the media, even 'protected' by law from being vigorously decried, and that makes the evil bolder.

But at the root of all this are ignorance (of what people ought to act like), and the evil of convincing them to even say things (outside of being sarcastic) like "...not that there is anything wrong with _____", when yes, it is terribly wrong.

That's right... And the only thing left is to identify the spirit(s) behind it.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 25, 2019, 05:27:25 PM
That's right... And the only thing left is to identify the spirit(s) behind it.
Yep. No Creator would wish such misery on his creations, only an Adversary, bent on destruction.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 25, 2019, 06:21:36 PM
Yep. No Creator would wish such misery on his creations, only an Adversary, bent on destruction.

That's right. Stepping away from the commandments (better translated as instruction - Like a father to a son) gives the adversary license to move on in... You can literally watch it happen.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: berdie on August 25, 2019, 06:33:55 PM
I see ignorance as the amount of knowledge someone has.
(you can be intelligent, but if you don't know what "two" is, you can't add a pair of them.)

Intelligence is the ability to do things with that knowledge.
(you might know what two is, but be unable to add)

Wisdom is the ability to do good things with it, and transcends intelligence.
(just because you can, doesn't mean you should...)

But, as for all systems, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

We have reached the level of intellectual laziness, that even given facts to the contrary, people are willing to have those facts interpreted for them in false and misleading ways, because thinking may requite effort.



You left out common sense in your excellent post.  But I guess that could be encompassed in some of the things in your post.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 26, 2019, 02:42:02 AM
That's right. Stepping away from the commandments (better translated as instruction - Like a father to a son) gives the adversary license to move on in... You can literally watch it happen.
When I talk with kids about the Bible, I explain that a lot of people see it as a list of don'ts. Don't do this, thou shalt not that. But then I ask them if they ever read an instruction manual or an owner's manual for a car.

What manufacturer, what creator wouldn't want what they create to be taken care of, to function well, and to have a long life without major problems?

I tell them, yes, there are stories there, and they all have a takeaway. Mostly, it's an owner's manual for people. It tells you what not to do if you don't want to wreck yourself, It tells you what to do to keep functioning well and be happy.
Look at it that way, and you'll even find there is a solution for guilt and your past that will set you free of all that--And it was inspired by, and the word of, one who cared enough about you that he died on the cross for you to be free of evil, even your own.

Sometimes you just have to hand kids a different way to look at things.   

Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 26, 2019, 02:43:21 AM


You left out common sense in your excellent post.  But I guess that could be encompassed in some of the things in your post.
Common Sense is part learning, part wisdom, and the intelligence to apply it to what is happening now. I reckon the more you have of all three, the better off you are.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: sneakypete on August 26, 2019, 12:21:27 PM
I disagree. I think immorality is exploding. Exponentially.

It is almost to the point now that few can remember when divorce and bastard children were rare... 


@Bigun

First of all,thank you for the book suggestion. I just ordered it from amazon.

@roamer_1

Your comment about "bastard children being rare" is maybe the biggest crock of crap I have ever seen posted. It was not only NOT rare 100+ years ago,it was WELCOME,even if rarely talked about in "polite company". ESPECIALLY in small communities in remote areas,where male strangers traveling through often received VERY "warm welcomes" by local wives because the locals recognized they NEEDED the "fresh outsider blood" injected (no pun intended) into their community to keep from becoming a tribe of drooling idiots.

There was also the problem of farmers who might be impotent or sterile needing babies in order to have strong young bodies to help with the farm labor. It took an insane amount of labor to farm prior to mechanization,and the more children you had,the more land you could put under the plow,cattle you could milk,etc,etc,etc.

There was also the question of sudden infant death syndrome,as well as childhood diseases and accidents.

Hell,back in the late 1800's people in the rural western areas of the US were organizing trains to bring orphans from the big eastern cities out west to be adopted to work the farms for childless parents.

Truth to tell,there were a LOT more "bastards" born before 1970 in industrialized nations than there are today. The only thing that has changed seems to be the fake outrage by the "moral majority",who seem to live in some sort of dream world,where up is now down,and down is  now up. Or you just want to feel superior so you can do your little "superiority dances".

Do you know NOTHING about history? This is shocking given your "mountain man" pose.

BTW,respond if you want,but I can't guarantee that I will answer. I only visit this board now when I am bored,and plan to post only rarely.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: sneakypete on August 26, 2019, 12:33:40 PM
Unusually, I worded that awkwardly. While I said that immorality has always been there (we heard about a guy having relations with chickens when I was in college, but that didn't make the papers), it is now presenting its face to the world, unabashed. Sure, that makes for an increase, because it has been 'normalized' by the media to the point where people just aren't shocked any more. (Disgusted, but act shocked, and the Left will call out the 'phobia' nazis on you.)

That's why I mentioned the rate of bastardy, it's just one example.



@Smokin Joe

I am already apologizing for my earlier post AND posting again,even though you are still wrong about the rate of "bastardy". More bastards SEEM to be born these days due to the FACT that people now feel free to talk about it,and the FACT that there are more women on the planet to give birth to them. I am GUESSING that the percentage of illegitimate births today compared to the overall population of women of childbearing age is even lower than it used to be if anyone cared enough to do the research.

Has nothing to do with morality,and everything to do with the needs and/or wishes of the mother,and the ready availability of legal and safe abortions today than it does with any sort of morality,though. Besides,"morality" is a word with fluid definitions,depending on where and when you are living. One modern example of this that comes to mind is all the births in Europe after the end of WW-2 despite so many women being left single or widows. People ARE going to do what their emotions tell them they NEED to do,regardless of what anyone else thinks of their "morality",and there are some thing that are just so deeply ingrained that no amount of moralizing by others is going to stop them.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 26, 2019, 03:49:28 PM
Your comment about "bastard children being rare" is maybe the biggest crock of crap I have ever seen posted.

You are welcome @sneakypete , to prove me wrong, but you will fail.

Quote
It was not only NOT rare 100+ years ago,it was WELCOME,even if rarely talked about in "polite company". ESPECIALLY in small communities in remote areas,where male strangers traveling through often received VERY "warm welcomes" by local wives because the locals recognized they NEEDED the "fresh outsider blood" injected (no pun intended) into their community to keep from becoming a tribe of drooling idiots.

Nah. Total bullshit. By local maidens, I might admit - of a certainty, young women looked to leverage their situation by way of the allure of strangers... Stories abound with that moral warning. And while there were no doubt affairs - again, the stories of our fathers abound - but all of that distracts from the norm - That norm being a man and a woman in matrimony, till death. Even yet you will find it the norm - Just masked by the statistics of the popular culture.

In my family, on both sides, going back as far as history affords, there are but three divorces - An aunt on my father's side, an uncle on my mother's side, both in the last generation, and my own. It just wasn't done, and should not be done now.

Quote
There was also the problem of farmers who might be impotent or sterile needing babies in order to have strong young bodies to help with the farm labor. It took an insane amount of labor to farm prior to mechanization,and the more children you had,the more land you could put under the plow,cattle you could milk,etc,etc,etc.


Your mischaracterization of such events stand against you. There is little to base the claim on sterile farmers... Infant and child mortality were high - or higher than now - And sure, there was a benefit in a big family (even as it remains today), but the adoptions to which you refer that emptied the orphanages of the cities, were governed by the churches with regard to placement, and that placement, by and large, was not for the benefit of the adopting parents, but rather a charity that was extended, and a good thing. 

Quote
There was also the question of sudden infant death syndrome,as well as childhood diseases and accidents.


...Standing outside of your point, promoting fornication and bastardy...

Quote
Hell,back in the late 1800's people in the rural western areas of the US were organizing trains to bring orphans from the big eastern cities out west to be adopted to work the farms for childless parents.

Right, except in the supposition of childless parents. No doubt some would be childless, but that was not the point of the adoption.

Quote
Truth to tell,there were a LOT more "bastards" born before 1970 in industrialized nations than there are today.

You will find that statistically impossible to prove. What you will find along those lines is a lot of 7 and 8 month old deliveries, within the bonds of marriage... Folks messin around and getting caught by a pregnancy generally did the right thing and got married - sometimes with a shotgun as an incentive. You will also find early widowhood, and children orphaned by fate.

You forget the social implications of your position - A woman alone with a bastard child had no recourse, and little in the way of means. Even as it is today, though the popular culture will not admit it. And a bastard child was unable by law to claim inheritance. And in a time when family was everything, being without family was nearly a death sentence, and likely to result at least in abject poverty.

I almost guffawed at the hilarity of your position... All one would need to do is look at the comparative drain upon society, now and then... There is no single other thing dragging down our society like the cost in single parent families and bastard children. By far and away, that is the major cause and cost of our welfare system, and entirely different from before, by orders of magnitude.

Bastard children have always been there, all the way along, sure. but in nowhere near the magnitude we suffer today. Likewise divorce - but statistically minute in comparison.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: sneakypete on August 26, 2019, 03:57:40 PM
@roamer_1

You are completely delusional. According to your OWN superstitions,the first child born was a Bastard because Adam and Eve weren't married.

Not to mention a guy named Jesus,whose mother was married to a man who was not his father.

Your dogma keeps biting you in the ass.

No need to respond because you will have nothing of value to say.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 26, 2019, 04:00:48 PM
@roamer_1

You are completely delusional. According to your OWN superstitions,the first child born was a Bastard because Adam and Eve weren't married.

Not to mention a guy named Jesus,whose mother was married to a man who was not his father.

Your dogma keeps biting you in the ass.

No need to respond because you will have nothing of value to say.

LOL! True to form @sneakypete ... your ignorance of the Bible is showing.

As to my delusion, look to the record - The statistics are there.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: berdie on August 26, 2019, 04:32:42 PM
You are welcome @sneakypete , to prove me wrong, but you will fail.

Nah. Total bullshit. By local maidens, I might admit - of a certainty, young women looked to leverage their situation by way of the allure of strangers... Stories abound with that moral warning. And while there were no doubt affairs - again, the stories of our fathers abound - but all of that distracts from the norm - That norm being a man and a woman in matrimony, till death. Even yet you will find it the norm - Just masked by the statistics of the popular culture.

In my family, on both sides, going back as far as history affords, there are but three divorces - An aunt on my father's side, an uncle on my mother's side, both in the last generation, and my own. It just wasn't done, and should not be done now.

Your mischaracterization of such events stand against you. There is little to base the claim on sterile farmers... Infant and child mortality were high - or higher than now - And sure, there was a benefit in a big family (even as it remains today), but the adoptions to which you refer that emptied the orphanages of the cities, were governed by the churches with regard to placement, and that placement, by and large, was not for the benefit of the adopting parents, but rather a charity that was extended, and a good thing. 

...Standing outside of your point, promoting fornication and bastardy...

Right, except in the supposition of childless parents. No doubt some would be childless, but that was not the point of the adoption.

You will find that statistically impossible to prove. What you will find along those lines is a lot of 7 and 8 month old deliveries, within the bonds of marriage... Folks messin around and getting caught by a pregnancy generally did the right thing and got married - sometimes with a shotgun as an incentive. You will also find early widowhood, and children orphaned by fate.

You forget the social implications of your position - A woman alone with a bastard child had no recourse, and little in the way of means. Even as it is today, though the popular culture will not admit it. And a bastard child was unable by law to claim inheritance. And in a time when family was everything, being without family was nearly a death sentence, and likely to result at least in abject poverty.

I almost guffawed at the hilarity of your position... All one would need to do is look at the comparative drain upon society, now and then... There is no single other thing dragging down our society like the cost in single parent families and bastard children. By far and away, that is the major cause and cost of our welfare system, and entirely different from before, by orders of magnitude.

Bastard children have always been there, all the way along, sure. but in nowhere near the magnitude we suffer today. Likewise divorce - but statistically minute in comparison.




I agree with your stance. Even as recently as the 1960's divorce was uncommon and girls that got pregnant in high school or in later life were shunned...or got married.

These things are accepted now. No biggie.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: berdie on August 26, 2019, 04:38:29 PM
@Bigun




BTW,respond if you want,but I can't guarantee that I will answer. I only visit this board now when I am bored,and plan to post only rarely.




I have noticed you haven't been posting and wondered if you were o.k. @sneakypete . You've always been very kind to me and a lot of your posts are very heart felt and insightful. Why are you angry?
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 26, 2019, 04:48:53 PM



I agree with your stance. Even as recently as the 1960's divorce was uncommon and girls that got pregnant in high school or in later life were shunned...or got married.

These things are accepted now. No biggie.

@berdie
I asked my old man about that very thing, later in life, before he passed away...
He too was a hellion in his youth...

Considering my own rebellion, in the late 70's and 80's, when 'lovin' was literally free and easy, I asked him how that worked in his day...

He said, about the same way... except there where a whole lot less women to choose from for the purpose of that particular exercise.

In his high school, there were a very few girls who would 'put out', and nobody brought them home to meet mamma.

I also discussed such things with Old Man Clarke - A local feller I got to know pretty good. He came across on a wagon as a small child, and saw the first car and the first plane to grace our little valley... He laid the roadbed for the locomotives to come here, and remembered logging with horses rather fondly...

As a young buck, his choices were the straight and narrow, or the whores across the tracks, and the diseases they came with...

The descent into madness is profound, and can be tracked.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: berdie on August 26, 2019, 04:58:01 PM
@berdie
I asked my old man about that very thing, later in life, before he passed away...
He too was a hellion in his youth...

Considering my own rebellion, in the late 70's and 80's, when 'lovin' was literally free and easy, I asked him how that worked in his day...

He said, about the same way... except there where a whole lot less women to choose from for the purpose of that particular exercise.

In his high school, there were a very few girls who would 'put out', and nobody brought them home to meet mamma.

I also discussed such things with Old Man Clarke - A local feller I got to know pretty good. He came across on a wagon as a small child, and saw the first car and the first plane to grace our little valley... He laid the roadbed for the locomotives to come here, and remembered logging with horses rather fondly...

As a young buck, his choices were the straight and narrow, or the whores across the tracks, and the diseases they came with...

The descent into madness is profound, and can be tracked.





I think the old saying was, a nice girl to marry a not nice girl to have fun with. Heck that saying isn't all that old in my world!!
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 26, 2019, 05:08:32 PM




I think the old saying was, a nice girl to marry a not nice girl to have fun with. Heck that saying isn't all that old in my world!!

@berdie
That's right. And it only stands to reason. It is hard to find faithfulness among the faithless... By the very definition, good faith in a marriage contract requires virtue that is wasted upon those who discount it.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Bigun on August 26, 2019, 05:08:46 PM
@berdie
I asked my old man about that very thing, later in life, before he passed away...
He too was a hellion in his youth...

Considering my own rebellion, in the late 70's and 80's, when 'lovin' was literally free and easy, I asked him how that worked in his day...

He said, about the same way... except there where a whole lot less women to choose from for the purpose of that particular exercise.

In his high school, there were a very few girls who would 'put out', and nobody brought them home to meet mamma.

I also discussed such things with Old Man Clarke - A local feller I got to know pretty good. He came across on a wagon as a small child, and saw the first car and the first plane to grace our little valley... He laid the roadbed for the locomotives to come here, and remembered logging with horses rather fondly...

As a young buck, his choices were the straight and narrow, or the whores across the tracks, and the diseases they came with...

The descent into madness is profound, and can be tracked.

Tracked it to Here (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,373134.msg2040473.html#msg2040473). Perhaps you missed it @roamer_1.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 26, 2019, 05:10:04 PM




I think the old saying was, a nice girl to marry a not nice girl to have fun with. Heck that saying isn't all that old in my world!!

Dunno. Nice girls do, too, just not for the whole town.
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: roamer_1 on August 26, 2019, 05:30:35 PM
Tracked it to Here (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,373134.msg2040473.html#msg2040473). Perhaps you missed it @roamer_1.

As a vehicle thereof, true, @Bigun , but a people that can be convinced of the value of communism has already lost it's virtue. The apple was not the point back there in Eden...nor was the temptation... It was the character of the people that allowed it.

It is hard for me to approach this issue without religion, which is the cover of the Book that holds our ethic... So I will just leave it to de Toqueville, who spoke our doom succinctly:

"I sought for the key to the greatness of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: Bigun on August 26, 2019, 05:35:51 PM
As a vehicle thereof, true, @Bigun , but a people that can be convinced of the value of communism has already lost it's virtue. The apple was not the point back there in Eden...nor was the temptation... It was the character of the people that allowed it.

It is hard for me to approach this issue without religion, which is the cover of the Book that holds our ethic... So I will just leave it to de Toqueville, who spoke our doom succinctly:

"I sought for the key to the greatness of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution. Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." -Alexis de Tocqueville


Whoop!  There it tis!
Title: Re: Evil in Plain Sight: Are Liberal Americans Becoming Increasingly Ignorant or Immoral?
Post by: bigheadfred on August 26, 2019, 08:08:44 PM
My father often referred to my brothers and I as "you little bastards". And there for a few years I was sure my name was Jesus Christ.

My BIL just did the Ancestry DNA thing and found out the man who raised him wasn't his father. He would have preferred going to his grave NOT knowing that.

A man moves to a new neighborhood and is getting all of his stuff moved in when the doorbell rings. He answers the door to find a big, burly guy chewing tobacco wearing a greasy tank top. "Welcome to the neighborhood!" The visitor says and shakes the mans hand. "Say, later I am having a party and since you are new, you should drop by....there's gonna be a lot of eating, drinking, fighting and fu*****." The man says "Great, that sounds like fun! What should I wear?" The fat neighbor replies..."it don't matter, it's just gonna be me and you"

seeyaluvyabye