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General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Chosen Daughter on May 13, 2019, 08:40:33 PM

Title: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 13, 2019, 08:40:33 PM
Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure

Immigration — President Donald Trump’s signature issue — will be as key to his re-election as it was in 2016.
This is why it should be the priority issue — not infrastructure — as the Administration seeks to work a legislative deal with House Democrats.
The president’s tentative and recent agreement with Democratic leaders to earmark $2 trillion for infrastructure improvements is good and positive.
Still, it faces serious pushback from Republican lawmakers and so-called “deficit hawks.”

Even acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney grasps the problems.

“Is it difficult to pass any infrastructure bill in this environment, let alone a $2 trillion one, in this environment?” Mulvaney asked during a Washington Post interview. “Absolutely.”
The 2020 general election is a mere 18 months off.

Even if an infrastructure bill passed tomorrow, hardly any jobs will actually be created in time for next year’s election.
No jobs, no votes.

Meanwhile, immigration is a pressing matter for several reasons......


https://www.newsmax.com/ruddy/immigration-infrastructure-trump-republican-party/2019/05/13/id/915756/ (https://www.newsmax.com/ruddy/immigration-infrastructure-trump-republican-party/2019/05/13/id/915756/)


Read Newsmax: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure | Newsmax.com
Urgent: Do you approve of Pres. Trump? Vote Here in Poll
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 13, 2019, 08:49:26 PM
One word that got my attention through this article is "compromise".   Compromise to obtain votes is not what he promised in '16.  He promised to build a wall. He promised NO amnesty!!  The crisis at the border is expanding. He should be taking a harder stance instead of being willing to compromise. Giving Mexico a year for them to get their act together was a HUGE mistake as was signing a bill to allow states to opt out of a barrier.  Giving illegals works status is nothing more than a type of amnesty, especially if they eventually would be granted citizenship.  No, No, and NO!!!!!!!

 If he delivers by securing the border and signing a fair immigration act, President Trump can win over a sizeable number of Hispanics, who will play a key role in states like Florida and Arizona, not to mention many other states.

Such an immigration compromise should include giving illegals work status, require they pay taxes and restitution, and offer a way for them to eventually gain citizenship.


I've mentioned it a couple of times before, but my hunch is that the 'deal' with the DEMS for an infrastructure plan will involve linking the U.S. and Mexico (and Canada) by highways and toll roads in order to resolve the border crisis. 
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 13, 2019, 09:29:07 PM
One word that got my attention through this article is "compromise".   Compromise to obtain votes is not what he promised in '16.  He promised to build a wall. He promised NO amnesty!!  The crisis at the border is expanding. He should be taking a harder stance instead of being willing to compromise. Giving Mexico a year for them to get their act together was a HUGE mistake as was signing a bill to allow states to opt out of a barrier.  Giving illegals works status is nothing more than a type of amnesty, especially if they eventually would be granted citizenship.  No, No, and NO!!!!!!!

 If he delivers by securing the border and signing a fair immigration act, President Trump can win over a sizeable number of Hispanics, who will play a key role in states like Florida and Arizona, not to mention many other states.

Such an immigration compromise should include giving illegals work status, require they pay taxes and restitution, and offer a way for them to eventually gain citizenship.


I've mentioned it a couple of times before, but my hunch is that the 'deal' with the DEMS for an infrastructure plan will involve linking the U.S. and Mexico (and Canada) by highways and toll roads in order to resolve the border crisis.

He just keeps giving the Dems everything they want.  They want the Infrastructure.  Trump should be saying no, not until the border is secure.


Everything you say is true. He is giving them Amnesty.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 13, 2019, 09:42:21 PM
He just keeps giving the Dems everything they want.  They want the Infrastructure.  Trump should be saying no, not until the border is secure.


Everything you say is true. He is giving them Amnesty.

Indeed. 
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on May 13, 2019, 10:14:16 PM
Makes a good point.

Would you remodel your house if the outside walls were not up?
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 13, 2019, 11:17:12 PM
Makes a good point.

Would you remodel your house if the outside walls were not up?

Exactly. First and foremost, the sovereignty of our country needs to be retained and secured, not bargained with.  A wall/barrier needs to be erected protecting this country and its citizens.  Secondly, illegal immigration and asylum need to be halted.  Compromising on any of those will be counterproductive and detrimental to this country. 

Unfortunately, Trump has already compromised by signing a bill allowing states to opt out of a barrier and allowing Mexico another year to get their act together. 

Remember, Pelosi was willing to fund additional security at entry points. Yet, now they are discussing infrastructure? So, those entry point could very well be pay tolls/barriers in and out of this country for trade ...   Infrastructure means highways, roads, bridges, etc.  Again, raising the question of possibly a North American Union.

The wall is not going to happen.  Parts of the wall are being built and repaired, but maybe strategically in design as he has allowed states to opt out which I see as a red flag. With states opting out, a complete border wall will not be erected.  He has already compromised and he's already worked out a new trade agreement with Mexico and Canada and is allowing Mexico another year to get it together.  Meanwhile the invasion continues and I think he will eventually grant amnesty as they will provide the workforce he suggested is needed.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 14, 2019, 12:55:21 AM
Makes a good point.

Would you remodel your house if the outside walls were not up?


Good point!
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 14, 2019, 12:57:38 AM
Exactly. First and foremost, the sovereignty of our country needs to be retained and secured, not bargained with.  A wall/barrier needs to be erected protecting this country and its citizens.  Secondly, illegal immigration and asylum need to be halted.  Compromising on any of those will be counterproductive and detrimental to this country. 

Unfortunately, Trump has already compromised by signing a bill allowing states to opt out of a barrier and allowing Mexico another year to get their act together. 

Remember, Pelosi was willing to fund additional security at entry points. Yet, now they are discussing infrastructure? So, those entry point could very well be pay tolls/barriers in and out of this country for trade ...   Infrastructure means highways, roads, bridges, etc.  Again, raising the question of possibly a North American Union.

The wall is not going to happen.  Parts of the wall are being built and repaired, but maybe strategically in design as he has allowed states to opt out which I see as a red flag. With states opting out, a complete border wall will not be erected.  He has already compromised and he's already worked out a new trade agreement with Mexico and Canada and is allowing Mexico another year to get it together.  Meanwhile the invasion continues and I think he will eventually grant amnesty as they will provide the workforce he suggested is needed.


Donald is such a phony.  If he really did know how to use the "Art of the Deal" he would hold everything Democrats want hostage until the border is secured.

'And I might add to fund those trillions for the infrastructure we need to stop the welfare to illegal immigrants.   

https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers (https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers)

How much it costs ICE to deport an undocumented immigrant

by Octavio Blanco   @CNNMoney
April 13, 2017: 10:04 AM ET

https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/news/economy/deportation-costs-undocumented-immigrant/index.html (https://money.cnn.com/2017/04/13/news/economy/deportation-costs-undocumented-immigrant/index.html)

How Much Do Illegal Immigrants REALLY Cost the United States?

A report by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) cited several interesting statistics based on census data. Some of these facts may be familiar to long-time readers… but I wanted each of you to know the enormous costs placed on the United States…
Our government continues to claim that the war on terror is bankrupting us. But what about these numbers? You do the math…
$11 billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Illegal households only pay about one-third the amount of federal taxes that non-illegal households pay.
Illegal households create a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion a year. If given amnesty, this number could grow to more than $29 billion.
$1.9 billion dollars a year is spent on food-assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
$1.6 billion is spent on the federal prison and court system for illegal aliens.
$2.5 billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
About 21 percent of the population of U.S. prisons is classified as “noncitizens” from Mexico, Colombia, Cuba and the Dominican Republic. About 5 percent is listed as “unknown.”
Immigration costs like all “costs" come out of the "TAXPAYOR" hide. These costs represent additional money creation that dilutes all the savings and assets in America.

https://personalliberty.com/how-much-do-illegal-immigrants-really-cost-the-united-states/ (https://personalliberty.com/how-much-do-illegal-immigrants-really-cost-the-united-states/)

Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Hoodat on May 14, 2019, 01:16:19 AM
He promised NO amnesty!!

I think you have him confused with Ted Cruz.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 14, 2019, 01:53:44 AM
I think you have him confused with Ted Cruz.
'



Candidate Trump promised no consideration of amnesty until system fixed

https://www.numbersusa.com/blog/candidate-promised-no-consideration-amnesty-until-system-fixed (https://www.numbersusa.com/blog/candidate-promised-no-consideration-amnesty-until-system-fixed)



'No amnesty': Trump vows to deport millions during 'first hour in office'

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/01/donald-trump-vows-to-deport-millions-during-first-hour-in-office-in-hardline-speech (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/01/donald-trump-vows-to-deport-millions-during-first-hour-in-office-in-hardline-speech)

Malkin: Trump Promised that There Will Be No Amnesty and if He Reneges, There Will Be Hell to Pay
‘There will be hell to pay not just for Donald Trump but entire Republican Party’

https://grabien.com/story.php?id=148283 (https://grabien.com/story.php?id=148283)





Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: jafo2010 on May 14, 2019, 12:20:24 PM
I tell you, a conservative Republican may just be able to beat Trump if he/she runs on the key issues Trump ran on in 2016, but has failed to deliver.  I think his lack of experience in working with a legislature has crippled him along with apparently his advisors.  On every key issue, he has failed except the tax changes, and even those cost him votes in 2020.

The only way I see Trump winning is to take the Jim DeMint route, and declare he also intends to make it his mission in life to eliminate the IRS.

But not one single Republican comes to mind that has the charisma and the savvy to pick up those issues and say unlike Trump, I can get it done.  American voters want people in office that represent them, not the invading illegal aliens attacking this country, and they want results.  I just do not see a Democommie winning POTUS again until they begin representing American citizens.  If a strong conservative picks up his issues and declares I will deliver unlike Donald Trump, they might just have a shot in the primary.

I have asked before, does anyone see another Republican with the chops to take on Trump?  I do not want four more years of virtually nothing from Congress.  And I sure as hell do not want the Democommies in power anywhere.  I consider them a genuine threat to this nation, and I see them as being controled by communists.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 14, 2019, 02:08:01 PM
I tell you, a conservative Republican may just be able to beat Trump if he/she runs on the key issues Trump ran on in 2016, but has failed to deliver.  I think his lack of experience in working with a legislature has crippled him along with apparently his advisors.  On every key issue, he has failed except the tax changes, and even those cost him votes in 2020.

The only way I see Trump winning is to take the Jim DeMint route, and declare he also intends to make it his mission in life to eliminate the IRS.

But not one single Republican comes to mind that has the charisma and the savvy to pick up those issues and say unlike Trump, I can get it done.  American voters want people in office that represent them, not the invading illegal aliens attacking this country, and they want results.  I just do not see a Democommie winning POTUS again until they begin representing American citizens.  If a strong conservative picks up his issues and declares I will deliver unlike Donald Trump, they might just have a shot in the primary.

I have asked before, does anyone see another Republican with the chops to take on Trump?  I do not want four more years of virtually nothing from Congress.  And I sure as hell do not want the Democommies in power anywhere.  I consider them a genuine threat to this nation, and I see them as being controled by communists.

The issue that Trump has FAILED on is the wall, which was the key issue that got him elected.  His failure at the border is astronomical and no conservative is going to jump in and make promises after the mess that he has created....especially since he gave Mexico a year to get their act together and he also signed a bill that states can opt out of a barrier.  In doing so, there is no way that a wall will be completed in its entirety.  He opened his mouth announcing that he was going to build a wall ... and in doing so, we now have 50 countries pouring over our borders.  No conservative with a shred of integrity is going to jump in now and promise to straighten out his mess.

As for the DEMS .... right now they are the party with bat crap crazy ideas and Uncle Joe is trying to run on Bammy's failed policies.  I still think the one to watch is Castro; if he comes across as a leader of the Hispanic people and a promise of American reformation, he could possibly beat Trump.  If he comes across with more the world is going to end and new green deal rhetoric he'll be toast just like the other liberal mental midgets.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 14, 2019, 03:06:07 PM
Trading amnesty for real border security/immigration reform is a no-brainer, if you ask me.   Otherwise, nothing gets done and the problem only gets worse.

It annoys me to see so many here apoplectic over the crisis at the border, yet unwilling to make the political compromises needed to solve it.   

Talk is cheap.   Action requires cutting a deal.   
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: skeeter on May 14, 2019, 03:08:47 PM
Trading amnesty for real border security/immigration reform is a no-brainer, if you ask me.   Otherwise, nothing gets done and the problem only gets worse.

It annoys me to see so many here apoplectic over the crisis at the border, yet unwilling to make the political compromises needed to solve it.   

Talk is cheap.   Action requires cutting a deal.   

Compromise?

Oh, you mean like Simpson Mazzoli. That kind of compromise?
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 14, 2019, 03:33:39 PM
Compromise?

Oh, you mean like Simpson Mazzoli. That kind of compromise?

I mean political horse trading, the way things used to get done.   (The problem with Simpson Mazzoli wasn't the deal itself,  but rather a lack of enforcement.)

A perfect example is the comprehensive federal law of employee benefits known as ERISA,  which is the law I work with everyday.   I continue to be impressed how this law effectively balances the interests of both employer and employees -  the result of political compromise between right and left.    If we are ever going to get funds for border security, as well as needed changes to asylum and immigration laws,  a political majority will need to be formed.   Since Congress is currently split,  that means horse trading with the Dems.   If that means some form of amnesty for some illegals,  then I am all for it. 

Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: skeeter on May 14, 2019, 03:41:58 PM
I mean political horse trading, the way things used to get done.   (The problem with Simpson Mazzoli wasn't the deal itself,  but rather a lack of enforcement.)

A perfect example is the comprehensive federal law of employee benefits known as ERISA,  which is the law I work with everyday.   I continue to be impressed how this law effectively balances the interests of both employer and employees -  the result of political compromise between right and left.    If we are ever going to get funds for border security, as well as needed changes to asylum and immigration laws,  a political majority will need to be formed.   Since Congress is currently split,  that means horse trading with the Dems.   If that means some form of amnesty for some illegals,  then I am all for it.

Congress has been doing the bait & switch on illegal immigration enforcement for decades. No one believes them when they say they want to compromise.

No amnesty. Enforcement only.

Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: truth_seeker on May 14, 2019, 04:29:24 PM
Speaker Ryan, was so helpful on health cre and immigration.

It would be rridiculous to think he was the "insurance policy," that Strzok aand Page discussed, wouldn't it?


s/
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 14, 2019, 08:59:41 PM
I tell you, a conservative Republican may just be able to beat Trump if he/she runs on the key issues Trump ran on in 2016, but has failed to deliver.  I think his lack of experience in working with a legislature has crippled him along with apparently his advisors.  On every key issue, he has failed except the tax changes, and even those cost him votes in 2020.

The only way I see Trump winning is to take the Jim DeMint route, and declare he also intends to make it his mission in life to eliminate the IRS.

But not one single Republican comes to mind that has the charisma and the savvy to pick up those issues and say unlike Trump, I can get it done.  American voters want people in office that represent them, not the invading illegal aliens attacking this country, and they want results.  I just do not see a Democommie winning POTUS again until they begin representing American citizens.  If a strong conservative picks up his issues and declares I will deliver unlike Donald Trump, they might just have a shot in the primary.

I have asked before, does anyone see another Republican with the chops to take on Trump?  I do not want four more years of virtually nothing from Congress.  And I sure as hell do not want the Democommies in power anywhere.  I consider them a genuine threat to this nation, and I see them as being controled by communists.

Cruz and Malkin
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: corbe on May 14, 2019, 09:07:17 PM
Cruz and Malkin

   Be still my beating heart
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: MoMo on May 14, 2019, 09:13:22 PM
you few cruz hanger oners here make me sick.You are actively undermining the best president weve had in decades just to feel warm and comfortable in your dead conservatism.I want to puke.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 14, 2019, 09:23:33 PM
   Be still my beating heart


 wink777   :patriot:
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 14, 2019, 09:24:31 PM
you few cruz hanger oners here make me sick.You are actively undermining the best president weve had in decades just to feel warm and comfortable in your dead conservatism.I want to puke.


Dead Conservatism.  No wonder Bernie Sanders supporters voted for Trump.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: corbe on May 14, 2019, 09:25:47 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/13/e8/79/13e879a717f0e884343e77ceb2d22955--quote-friends-friend-quotes.jpg)



   @MoMo your attitude frustrates me but after my first dance with the Mods this afternoon, I've decided to save my best moves for @LegalAmerican she's due at any time.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 14, 2019, 11:17:26 PM
Trading amnesty for real border security/immigration reform is a no-brainer, if you ask me.   Otherwise, nothing gets done and the problem only gets worse.

It annoys me to see so many here apoplectic over the crisis at the border, yet unwilling to make the political compromises needed to solve it.   

Talk is cheap.   Action requires cutting a deal.   

I don't think Trump ever intended to build a wall; as you stated, talk is cheap.  He is slowly but steadily giving the DEMS what they want as he continues to compromise on what he promised.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 14, 2019, 11:31:24 PM
you few cruz hanger oners here make me sick.You are actively undermining the best president weve had in decades just to feel warm and comfortable in your dead conservatism.I want to puke.

Oh geez ... we've got ourselves another live one!!.  Open your eyes sweetheart, you've been duped.  Trump never intended to build a wall, if that were his intent he would have already done so.  He continually proclaimed that he was going to build a great and beautiful wall and FAILED and as a result we now have people pouring over our border from over 50 different countries each day by the thousands!!  They called his bluff.  I could go on, but its late at night and either you get it by now or you don't.

Best president we've had in a decade ... yeppers indeed ... he is better than Bammy  ... but the amount of illegals that Trump is letting in is unprecedented and we now have more knocking on our door and sneaking through then ever before in history.

Oh, btw ... it is difficult to come to the realization of what is truly going on ...  we're losing our sovereignty ... so yes, go ahead and puke.  It's ok.   :3:
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 14, 2019, 11:40:13 PM
I don't think Trump ever intended to build a wall; as you stated, talk is cheap.  He is slowly but steadily giving the DEMS what they want as he continues to compromise on what he promised.

This really gets me.  Why would you campaign on building a wall and then sign legislation that allows local government to opt out?  Why would you continue to give Democrats everything they want when there is 100.000 illegals caught almost every month now?  Those are the ones caught.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 14, 2019, 11:48:26 PM
This really gets me.  Why would you campaign on building a wall and then sign legislation that allows local government to opt out?  Why would you continue to give Democrats everything they want when there is 100.000 illegals caught almost every month now?  Those are the ones caught.

@Chosen Daughter I have voiced my suspicions, but other than that I don't have an answer.  What I do know is we are losing our sovereignty and facing becoming another Europe.  That is the unfortunate reality.  Short of praying for a miracle, there isn't a whole lot we can do. Perhaps this is God's will for this country? 
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 15, 2019, 12:05:54 AM
@Chosen Daughter I have voiced my suspicions, but other than that I don't have an answer.  What I do know is we are losing our sovereignty and facing becoming another Europe.  That is the unfortunate reality.  Short of praying for a miracle, there isn't a whole lot we can do. Perhaps this is God's will for this country?


I just came across this Rush Limbaugh airing.  Sad reality.


Rush Limbaugh on Border Wall: Trump Got ‘Less Than Nothing’

Wednesday on his nationally syndicated radio show, conservative talker Rush Limbaugh commented on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) announcement of the deal that finances the government through New Year’s Day without funding for President Donald Trump‘s wall on the U.S.-Mexico border.
Partial transcript as follows (courtesy of RushLimbaugh.com)

LIMBAUGH: I mean, Washington came together to pass this thing in like 10 minutes. Meanwhile, $5 billion, a measly $5 billion — when compared to the size of the federal budget for border security — is an impossibility. Somebody needs to explain to me how this happened.

I know you people are looking to me to explain it to you, and don’t worry. I’m being rhetorical here. I have an explanation for this. But it’s just… It’s the kind of thing that just rubs me raw, it sends people into orbit because something that is not on somebody’s primary watch list, some issue that it’s not having a national clamor to get this done, an issue that primarily benefits 187,000 people and whoever their political sponsors are just sails through.

The point is it can be done on something the American public is not even really aware of, not clamoring for, and doesn’t know when it’s happened. There’s some news stories: “Senate Easily Passed Trump-Backed Criminal Justice Reform Bill.” There are 87 votes in the Senate for it, and yet things the American people have expressed for decades that they want, have voted over and over and over again to say that they want, have sent somebody to Washington from outside the political system to get done, and there’s no hope.
There’s not a shining chance that this is gonna get done. And they gloat and they applaud and they celebrate in Washington over this. Some of this stuff is just so frustrating and maddening and defies any kind of common sense explanation. This is swamp behavior at its best. This is the greatest illustration of how much of a game all of this actually is. We’re made to think that it’s cutthroat and real. And, meanwhile, it’s just all a game, how this stuff happens, in Congress, in the House, in the Senate in Washington.....


https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2018/12/19/rush-limbaugh-on-border-wall-trump-got-less-than-nothing/ (https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2018/12/19/rush-limbaugh-on-border-wall-trump-got-less-than-nothing/)

Just a game.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 15, 2019, 12:29:44 AM

I just came across this Rush Limbaugh airing.  Sad reality.


Rush Limbaugh on Border Wall: Trump Got ‘Less Than Nothing’

Wednesday on his nationally syndicated radio show, conservative talker Rush Limbaugh commented on Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) announcement of the deal that finances the government through New Year’s Day without funding for President Donald Trump‘s wall on the U.S.-Mexico border.
Partial transcript as follows (courtesy of RushLimbaugh.com)

LIMBAUGH: I mean, Washington came together to pass this thing in like 10 minutes. Meanwhile, $5 billion, a measly $5 billion — when compared to the size of the federal budget for border security — is an impossibility. Somebody needs to explain to me how this happened.

I know you people are looking to me to explain it to you, and don’t worry. I’m being rhetorical here. I have an explanation for this. But it’s just… It’s the kind of thing that just rubs me raw, it sends people into orbit because something that is not on somebody’s primary watch list, some issue that it’s not having a national clamor to get this done, an issue that primarily benefits 187,000 people and whoever their political sponsors are just sails through.

The point is it can be done on something the American public is not even really aware of, not clamoring for, and doesn’t know when it’s happened. There’s some news stories: “Senate Easily Passed Trump-Backed Criminal Justice Reform Bill.” There are 87 votes in the Senate for it, and yet things the American people have expressed for decades that they want, have voted over and over and over again to say that they want, have sent somebody to Washington from outside the political system to get done, and there’s no hope.
There’s not a shining chance that this is gonna get done. And they gloat and they applaud and they celebrate in Washington over this. Some of this stuff is just so frustrating and maddening and defies any kind of common sense explanation. This is swamp behavior at its best. This is the greatest illustration of how much of a game all of this actually is. We’re made to think that it’s cutthroat and real. And, meanwhile, it’s just all a game, how this stuff happens, in Congress, in the House, in the Senate in Washington.....


https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2018/12/19/rush-limbaugh-on-border-wall-trump-got-less-than-nothing/ (https://www.breitbart.com/clips/2018/12/19/rush-limbaugh-on-border-wall-trump-got-less-than-nothing/)

Just a game.

Perhaps not a game, but a well calculated maneuver on Trump's part.  He saw an opportunity to jump into the political arena, and sold his supporters what they wanted to hear and he did just that. When Trump first announced that he was going to run and his campaign platform was building a wall it actually surprised me knowing his liberal ties and association with the Clintons as well as his wealth.  I remember discussing the same with my son and I remarked at the time ... or he could very well have plans for a North American Union.  Time of course will tell, but Trump has done very little to build that wall.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 15, 2019, 01:07:05 AM
Perhaps not a game, but a well calculated maneuver on Trump's part.  He saw an opportunity to jump into the political arena, and sold his supporters what they wanted to hear and he did just that. When Trump first announced that he was going to run and his campaign platform was building a wall it actually surprised me knowing his liberal ties and association with the Clintons as well as his wealth.  I remember discussing the same with my son and I remarked at the time ... or he could very well have plans for a North American Union.  Time of course will tell, but Trump has done very little to build that wall.


Well the question is whether it can ever be built now that he signed the legislation letting local government opt out.  What good is it?  Those people migrate to where they can get in.  Trump thinks if he build a few miles here and there we will be impressed.  Well he has built some sections and people are crossing a hundred thousand a month.  I remember too talking about all his liberal connections.  Now its out in the open.  We know that many liberals did vote for him.  And most of his problems have been with his liberal friends.  Cohen, Amorosa, etc.  Then there is Gulianni, Kushner.  On and on.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Once-Ler on May 15, 2019, 02:38:35 AM
you few cruz hanger oners here make me sick.You are actively undermining the best president weve had in decades...
@MoMo
The BEST in History.   :patriot: These border patriots just don't understand how the wall is practically already built.  #FinishTheWall.  And that idea about transporting illegals throughout the USA to sanctuary cities was brilliant!!!  President Trump gets absolutely no credit from the liberal media or the rats in Congress for locking up crooked hillary, building the wall (really just needs a coat of paint at this point), draining the swamp of RINOs, eliminating the deficit and national debt, negotiating great trade deals, and Making America Great Again.  If that's not conservative I don't know what is, but still some "conservatives" don't think that is enough.  America has never stood taller in the world, still some people wish the son of a Presidential assassin, and a suspect in the Zodiac serial killings was in charge.  I don't get it.   :shrug:

Can there still be any doubt Trump was sent by Jesus to fight wickedness? 
No Collusion.
/sarc
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 15, 2019, 09:25:59 AM
Trump can always do what Obama did to address illegal immigration - tank the economy.    Illegals come here for the opportunity.   If the economy only weren't booming, and employers weren't hiring,  they wouldn't come.   
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 15, 2019, 10:25:50 AM
Trump can always do what Obama did to address illegal immigration - tank the economy.    Illegals come here for the opportunity.   If the economy only weren't booming, and employers weren't hiring,  they wouldn't come.


The opportunity to earn great wages once you include food, housing, health care, phones, reduced car insurance.  They are probably making $6.00-$10.00 more than the Stupid Americans they sit next to on the Assembly line.  Its a great opportunity alright.  They get to break the law.  Have Americans raise their families and still manage to send money back to the homeland.


And what could be better than free delivery for the anchor baby?
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 15, 2019, 10:29:25 AM
Trump can always do what Obama did to address illegal immigration - tank the economy.    Illegals come here for the opportunity.   If the economy only weren't booming, and employers weren't hiring,  they wouldn't come.

Oh good grief!!  We've been through this before and I've posted several links stating the same. It has been proven time and time again that NOT ALL  ILLEGALS ARE HERE for OPPORTUNITY!  Many here wind up crowing our prison system for various different reasons; transporting and selling drugs, burglary, murder, rape, kidnapping, -- various crimes against our LEGAL citizens.  Many are gang members and terrorists.  Diseases coming across our border right now is already unprecedented; measles and tuberculosis are now on the rise as well as MRSA.

Under Trump an unprecedented number of illegals are pouring over our borders, many NOT apprehended, NOT health screened, and are now roaming our streets.  The number getting through is unknown.

Yes, STOPPING the freebies, asylum, anchor baby, and birthright citizenship policies would definitely help. 

@Jazzhead when we become another Europe where there are streets and entire sections of the country where law enforcement will not got because it is too dangerous and too populated with certain 'ethnic' groups; maybe then you will understand.

Yes, every man, woman and child's life matters; please keep in mind that most coming across don't value our lives.  Certainly many feel that we must take care of them at the expense of our own families.  Therein lies the true problem.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on May 15, 2019, 10:39:14 AM
Trump can always do what Obama did to address illegal immigration - tank the economy.    Illegals come here for the opportunity.  If the economy only weren't booming, and employers weren't hiring,  they wouldn't come.
Yes, a lot of them come for the opportunity to create serious crimes.  Doing jobs Americans won't do.  Think a tanking economy will stop these types?

Examples of Serious Crimes By Illegal Aliens
https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/examples-serious-crimes-illegal-aliens (https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/examples-serious-crimes-illegal-aliens)

And an increasing number of prisoners in this country are aliens.

DOJ: 26% of Federal Prisoners Are Aliens
https://cis.org/Huennekens/DOJ-26-Federal-Prisoners-Are-Aliens (https://cis.org/Huennekens/DOJ-26-Federal-Prisoners-Are-Aliens)
Over half are there not because they are illegal, but other criminal activities.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 15, 2019, 12:49:46 PM
@Jazzhead when we become another Europe where there are streets and entire sections of the country where law enforcement will not got because it is too dangerous and too populated with certain 'ethnic' groups; maybe then you will understand.

Yes, every man, woman and child's life matters; please keep in mind that most coming across don't value our lives.  Certainly many feel that we must take care of them at the expense of our own families.  Therein lies the true problem.

We are not Europe.   Muslim immigration to the U.S. is negligible.   Hispanic immigrants are largely Christian and share American values of pluralism and respect for religious liberty.   

In examining the problem of "illegal immigration" it is necessary to distinguish economic immigration,  which typically rises and falls in response to the economy and consists largely of single adults seeking work,  and the more recent phenomenon of migrant families fleeing violence in their home countries.    Each has different causes, implications and solutions.   
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Sanguine on May 15, 2019, 12:56:06 PM
Cruz and Malkin

Hmmm.  I could get behind that.   happy77
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on May 15, 2019, 01:51:32 PM
We are not Europe.   Muslim immigration to the U.S. is negligible.   Hispanic immigrants are largely Christian and share American values of pluralism and respect for religious liberty.   

In examining the problem of "illegal immigration" it is necessary to distinguish economic immigration,  which typically rises and falls in response to the economy and consists largely of single adults seeking work,  and the more recent phenomenon of migrant families fleeing violence in their home countries.    Each has different causes, implications and solutions.   
There is absolutely no reason to ever differentiate why an illegal is here.

Illegal is illegal.  It is someone breaking our laws, no matter what his/her situation is.  It is criminal behavior, and in most countries of the world would be cause to incarcerate or shoot to defend your country's borders rather than to reward them with free passage.

Nothing you have ever said on this subject makes an excuse for someone coming here illegally rather than legally.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: jafo2010 on May 15, 2019, 02:24:50 PM

Quote
Jazzhead...
We are not Europe.   Muslim immigration to the U.S. is negligible.   Hispanic immigrants are largely Christian and share American values of pluralism and respect for religious liberty.   

Muslim immigration is negligible?  You are dead wrong Jazz.  The numbers are readily available on the net.  We have about 250,000 to 500,000 mussies coming to the USA every YEAR!  If you look at the numbers for the Diversity Visa Program, even going back prior to 9/11, and every year thereafter, you will find about 80% of green card recipients are mussies.  And ironically, Iran is often number one for recipients of green cards.

We have a city in Michigan with over 1 million mussies.  Minneapolis is loaded with them.  Come to Atlanta and see them everywhere.

You had a president saying islam was a major contributor to the creation of this nation.  I enjoyed that idiotic statement.  Not one signer of the Constitution was a muslim.  They are well entrenched in every branch of government, and if you think their mission is not the destruction of western civilization, you are just not paying attention.  Europe is largely lost.  France for certain.  They will level France just like Syria in the next couple decades.  They only know murder and destruction, they bring nothing to society.  Nothing!
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 15, 2019, 02:58:49 PM
Muslim immigration is negligible?  You are dead wrong Jazz. 

As of 2017, Pew Research Center estimates there are 3.45 million Muslims in America,  about 1.1% of the population.   I'd say that's negligible.   And most of these come here (or were born here, as with most black Muslims) legally,  so Muslims aren't who were talking about when we're debating illegal immigrants and migrants seeking asylum.   Most of those are Hispanic and Catholic.   

   
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 15, 2019, 03:00:41 PM
There is absolutely no reason to ever differentiate why an illegal is here.


There is if you care at all about crafting sound policy.   
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 15, 2019, 03:10:06 PM
Muslim immigration is negligible?  You are dead wrong Jazz.  The numbers are readily available on the net.  We have about 250,000 to 500,000 mussies coming to the USA every YEAR! 

Wrong.  According to Pew, the U.S. Muslim population is growing at the rate of 100,000 per year,  driven not only by immigration but by higher fertility rates among the Muslim population.   

Yes, the numbers are readily available on the net - to refute your hysterical claims.   
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 15, 2019, 03:24:44 PM
We are not Europe.   Muslim immigration to the U.S. is negligible.   Hispanic immigrants are largely Christian and share American values of pluralism and respect for religious liberty.   

In examining the problem of "illegal immigration" it is necessary to distinguish economic immigration,  which typically rises and falls in response to the economy and consists largely of single adults seeking work,  and the more recent phenomenon of migrant families fleeing violence in their home countries.    Each has different causes, implications and solutions.   

I didn't say that we were Europe.  Continuing to allow massive illegal immigration WILL turn us into another Germany or France and Europe in general or worse.

Economic immigration??  Are you serious??  They can't even keep track of the numbers at the border and have absolutely no idea of the number sneaking in that isn't accounted for.  They are costing us BILIONS and ultimately they will cost us our sovereignty.  How do you put a price tag on that??
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 15, 2019, 03:29:12 PM
Muslim immigration is negligible?  You are dead wrong Jazz.  The numbers are readily available on the net.  We have about 250,000 to 500,000 mussies coming to the USA every YEAR!  If you look at the numbers for the Diversity Visa Program, even going back prior to 9/11, and every year thereafter, you will find about 80% of green card recipients are mussies.  And ironically, Iran is often number one for recipients of green cards.

We have a city in Michigan with over 1 million mussies.  Minneapolis is loaded with them.  Come to Atlanta and see them everywhere.

You had a president saying islam was a major contributor to the creation of this nation.  I enjoyed that idiotic statement.  Not one signer of the Constitution was a muslim.  They are well entrenched in every branch of government, and if you think their mission is not the destruction of western civilization, you are just not paying attention.  Europe is largely lost.  France for certain.  They will level France just like Syria in the next couple decades.  They only know murder and destruction, they bring nothing to society.  Nothing!


 :amen:  Numerous times I have posted the stats. @Jazzhead refuses to look at the data. You can post stats till you're blue in the face and it will do absolutely no good.  Some people refuse to accept reality, for its easier to keep their heads buried in the sand.  Denial and apathy are quite common.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 15, 2019, 03:31:09 PM
There is if you care at all about crafting sound policy.

I disagree.  The sound policy that the U.S.A. should adapt right now is; NO IMMIGRATION WHATSOEVER, NO ASYLUM and MASS DEPORTATION for a minimum of 5 years.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Jazzhead on May 15, 2019, 04:08:26 PM
I didn't say that we were Europe.  Continuing to allow massive illegal immigration WILL turn us into another Germany or France and Europe in general or worse.

Economic immigration??  Are you serious??  They can't even keep track of the numbers at the border and have absolutely no idea of the number sneaking in that isn't accounted for.  They are costing us BILIONS and ultimately they will cost us our sovereignty.  How do you put a price tag on that??

I do not support illegal immigration.   I support better border security.   I support immigration reform to conform legal immigration to what is in our nation's economic best interest. 

But I am realistic to know that conservatives won't achieve these goals without bargaining with Democrats who have different priorities.   If the deal is sound, for example,  I support amnesty for those here illegally who've kept their noses clean.

It is also crucial to recognize that there are important differences between "traditional" illegals who come here seeking work from employers willing to engage them, and asylum seekers who are often families fleeing for their lives.    I have no objection to welcoming asylum seekers who qualify as truly deserving of asylum.    But I agree with you that economic immigrants distort the market for U.S. labor and need to conform to rules that govern their ability to come here and work.     
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Hoodat on May 15, 2019, 04:08:35 PM
Trump can always do what Obama did to address illegal immigration - tank the economy.    Illegals come here for the opportunity.   If the economy only weren't booming, and employers weren't hiring,  they wouldn't come.

Illegals come here for the opportunity to collect free stuff.  That happens regardless of how well the economy is doing.  Employers weren't hiring during Obama's first term, but illegals kept coming - free medical care, education, and food stamps.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Sanguine on May 15, 2019, 04:13:15 PM
Illegals come here for the opportunity to collect free stuff.  That happens regardless of how well the economy is doing.  Employers weren't hiring during Obama's first term, but illegals kept coming - free medical care, education, and food stamps.

It is much more dependent on their economy, whether personal or national, than it is on ours.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on May 15, 2019, 06:37:34 PM
There is if you care at all about crafting sound policy.
The only meaningful sound policy is ensuring all obey our laws.  Just like my ancestors did and likely yours.

Are we not a nation of laws?

If not, we don't need any at all and it is every man for himself.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on May 15, 2019, 06:38:58 PM
It is much more dependent on their economy, whether personal or national, than it is on ours.
That is a great point.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: jafo2010 on May 15, 2019, 07:34:02 PM

Quote
Libertybele....
I disagree.  The sound policy that the U.S.A. should adapt right now is; NO IMMIGRATION WHATSOEVER, NO ASYLUM and MASS DEPORTATION for a minimum of 5 years.

I agree 100%.  However, I also believe we need to end illegal alien invasion.  That is one of the greatest threats this nation faces.

When the federal income tax was started in 1914, I believe at 1%, it was to be for a set period I believe to pay for the war.  The abuse of the working man/woman in this nation must end.  USA citizens are being abused by their government on a daily basis.  End illegal alien invasion, build the damn wall, and make it clear anyone entering as an illegal alien invader will NEVER be eligible for citizenship, only deportation and fines.  I know illegal aliens that own multiple houses, never paid a dime in taxes.


Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 15, 2019, 07:48:03 PM
I agree 100%.  However, I also believe we need to end illegal alien invasion.  That is one of the greatest threats this nation faces.

When the federal income tax was started in 1914, I believe at 1%, it was to be for a set period I believe to pay for the war.  The abuse of the working man/woman in this nation must end.  USA citizens are being abused by their government on a daily basis.  End illegal alien invasion, build the damn wall, and make it clear anyone entering as an illegal alien invader will NEVER be eligible for citizenship, only deportation and fines.  I know illegal aliens that own multiple houses, never paid a dime in taxes.

???? I'm not so sure why you think that I am not for ending illegal immigration. That baffles me as I have been extremely vocal about illegal immigration.   I am absolutely AGAINST illegal immigration.  I would go as far as making an announcement to other countries that the U.S.A. has adopted a zero tolerance policy on illegal immigration and those entering this country illegally will be dealt with accordingly.  ANY person caught illegally entering the U.S. will be seen as an enemy of this country and we have the absolute right to defend our country by any means, including fire power and land mines.  A few accidents is all it would take for the message to become very clear.

Placing a moratorium on all migration into this country includes both legal and illegal.  Shut down ALL migration into this country.  Shut down ALL asylum and fight this invasion by MASS deportation!  First to go, is to return those filling up our prison systems back to the country from which they came alontg with a bill for housing and feeding them.

Allow the average citizen to go through training and give them the education and tools necessary to assist in deportations and expand ICE three fold in each county.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: corbe on May 15, 2019, 07:52:36 PM
   So I'll put you down as a definite NO on Ivankas husband's plan @libertybele
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 15, 2019, 08:09:36 PM
I agree 100%.  However, I also believe we need to end illegal alien invasion.  That is one of the greatest threats this nation faces.

When the federal income tax was started in 1914, I believe at 1%, it was to be for a set period I believe to pay for the war.  The abuse of the working man/woman in this nation must end.  USA citizens are being abused by their government on a daily basis.  End illegal alien invasion, build the damn wall, and make it clear anyone entering as an illegal alien invader will NEVER be eligible for citizenship, only deportation and fines.  I know illegal aliens that own multiple houses, never paid a dime in taxes.


I do too.  Those ITIN numbers are the gift that keeps giving.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 15, 2019, 08:12:47 PM
???? I'm not so sure why you think that I am not for ending illegal immigration. That baffles me as I have been extremely vocal about illegal immigration.   I am absolutely AGAINST illegal immigration.  I would go as far as making an announcement to other countries that the U.S.A. has adopted a zero tolerance policy on illegal immigration and those entering this country illegally will be dealt with accordingly.  ANY person caught illegally entering the U.S. will be seen as an enemy of this country and we have the absolute right to defend our country by any means, including fire power and land mines.  A few accidents is all it would take for the message to become very clear.

Placing a moratorium on all migration into this country includes both legal and illegal.  Shut down ALL migration into this country.  Shut down ALL asylum and fight this invasion by MASS deportation!  First to go, is to return those filling up our prison systems back to the country from which they came alontg with a bill for housing and feeding them.

Allow the average citizen to go through training and give them the education and tools necessary to assist in deportations and expand ICE three fold in each county


I think that prison and health care should be paid by the country of which they belong to..
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Chosen Daughter on May 15, 2019, 08:14:11 PM
Hmmm.  I could get behind that.   happy77


Me too, easily!
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: Once-Ler on May 16, 2019, 08:49:15 AM
I know illegal aliens that own multiple houses, never paid a dime in taxes.
You don't know any illegals, and I bet you have paid a dime in taxes.
Title: Re: Start With Immigration, Not Infrastructure
Post by: libertybele on May 16, 2019, 11:40:55 AM
   So I'll put you down as a definite NO on Ivankas husband's plan @libertybele

Absolutely!!!  I hold no esteem for Jared or any of his plans.  The only thing that I am interest in hearing from him is that he an Ivanka are vacating the White House.