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General Category => Editorial/Opinion => Topic started by: mystery-ak on April 09, 2019, 10:06:03 AM

Title: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: mystery-ak on April 09, 2019, 10:06:03 AM
Are Women Malcontents?
Dennis Prager

Posted: Apr 09, 2019 12:01 AM

I have decided to finally read what is widely regarded as the literary work that unleashed the modern feminist movement, Betty Friedan's "The Feminine Mystique."

I am halfway through the book, and I find it to be a well-written cri de coeur (cry from the heart). Historically speaking, there was always much to lament regarding the status of women. Though I have none of the contempt Friedan has for "housewifery," her description of women who felt they had no sense of self because they were only someone's wife and some children's mother is emotionally compelling.

But a big and troubling thought hit me while reading the book. In the 56 years since "The Feminine Mystique" was published, every complaint Friedan made regarding the situation of the American woman has been addressed. Few American women are forced into "housewifery." The few women who choose to place marriage and home over career have truly chosen to do so; it is the rare young woman for whom marriage and family are greater goals than a successful career. Nor do women any longer go from high school to the wedding chapel. They go from high school to college and often graduate school. In fact, far more women go to college than men.

more
https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2019/04/09/are-women-malcontents-n2544465
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Free Vulcan on April 09, 2019, 10:26:21 AM
That's pretty much the schtick of every leftist identity group. No matter how great things are, it will always be pain, misery, dust bowls, whips cracking, starvation, oppression - let the list go on.

Until they get into power, then everything they wailed about will actually come true, just in reverse, while they lionize themselves at how glorious things are.

It's what the spawn of Stalin do. It's what they always do.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: goatprairie on April 09, 2019, 11:25:28 AM
Simply stated, for people on the left, the glass is always half empty.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 09, 2019, 12:06:44 PM
A well-written cry from the heart?  I’ve read The Feminine Mystique.  The degree of anger and bitterness behind Friedan’s screed came through clearly.  To her, housewives were children in adult bodies, little princesses kept from fully maturing.  She was miserable in her own life, but instead of getting help, she needed to smear others. 



“...women who 'adjust' as housewives, who grow up wanting to be 'just a housewife,' are in as much danger as the millions who walked to their own death in the concentration camps...they ate suffering a slow death of mind and spirit.
Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Jazzhead on April 09, 2019, 12:58:04 PM
Tribalism will be the death of the American experiment.   
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: goatprairie on April 09, 2019, 01:13:19 PM
A well-written cry from the heart?  I’ve read The Feminine Mystique.  The degree of anger and bitterness behind Friedan’s screed came through clearly.  To her, housewives were children in adult bodies, little princesses kept from fully maturing.  She was miserable in her own life, but instead of getting help, she needed to smear others. 



“...women who 'adjust' as housewives, who grow up wanting to be 'just a housewife,' are in as much danger as the millions who walked to their own death in the concentration camps...they ate suffering a slow death of mind and spirit.
Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique
What was disturbing about all the anger and hatred of their country coming from the sixties feminists was their whining about not having the same career opportunities as males.
In many cases that was true...many males were not ready to accept women as equal competitors in the marketplace.
But at the time events were changing rapidly. Since the end of WWII many young women were enrolling in institutions of higher learning.  The numbers of females were approaching the numbers of males who were going on to colleges and universities.
What people forget is that before WWII only a very small percentage of males went to college. In 1940 only about half the population, male or female, finished high school.
After WWII the numbers of both sexes going on to IOHL boomed.  It was inevitable that women would start entering fields previously mostly male or all male.
My point is that many leftists, especially angry, leftist feminists, fomented the idea that all American males had these wonderful jobs they loved while all women were relegated to their kitchens while being pregnant.
Until about fifty-sixty years ago a very large percentage of American males still worked hard, physical, many times dangerous jobs without great pay. Many of them still  work those types of jobs.
When I started working in an office at a Fortune 500 company in my hometown in the early seventies there were quite a few women who had been working there for many years before I started.  Many of them also had families and children. So the tale that all women were relegated to their homes before the seventies was false.
There was an inevitable lag time before women would start equaling men in numbers in certain professional positions, but they are now doing it.
However, few women wish to do the numerous dangerous, dirty jobs that still have to be done. If they want to do them, more power to them.
The idea of everybody having a great,wonderful career in whatever profession you choose is only a fairly recent one in the scheme of things for both sexes.   

Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Millee on April 09, 2019, 01:44:07 PM
What was disturbing about all the anger and hatred of their country coming from the sixties feminists was their whining about not having the same career opportunities as males.
In many cases that was true...many males were not ready to accept women as equal competitors in the marketplace.
But at the time events were changing rapidly. Since the end of WWII many young women were enrolling in institutions of higher learning.  The numbers of females were approaching the numbers of males who were going on to colleges and universities.
What people forget is that before WWII only a very small percentage of males went to college. In 1940 only about half the population, male or female, finished high school.
After WWII the numbers of both sexes going on to IOHL boomed.  It was inevitable that women would start entering fields previously mostly male or all male.
My point is that many leftists, especially angry, leftist feminists, fomented the idea that all American males had these wonderful jobs they loved while all women were relegated to their kitchens while being pregnant.
Until about fifty-sixty years ago a very large percentage of American males still worked hard, physical, many times dangerous jobs without great pay. Many of them still  work those types of jobs.
When I started working in an office at a Fortune 500 company in my hometown in the early seventies there were quite a few women who had been working there for many years before I started.  Many of them also had families and children. So the tale that all women were relegated to their homes before the seventies was false.
There was an inevitable lag time before women would start equaling men in numbers in certain professional positions, but they are now doing it.
However, few women wish to do the numerous dangerous, dirty jobs that still have to be done. If they want to do them, more power to them.
The idea of everybody having a great,wonderful career in whatever profession you choose is only a fairly recent one in the scheme of things for both sexes.

 goopo
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 01:50:49 PM
Tribalism will be the death of the American experiment.

"Tribalism"?   What do you think tribalism means?
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 09, 2019, 01:54:09 PM
The few women who choose to place marriage and home over career have truly chosen to do so; it is the rare young woman for whom marriage and family are greater goals than a successful career.

And that is a damn, cryin shame.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 02:02:26 PM
And that is a damn, cryin shame.

Today it's not a black and white issue.  You can have both and if you make some concessions and keep your priorities straight, neither will suffer.  We just don't have the crushing, overwhelming labor required to maintain a household properly that we had in the past, so it is possible and maybe even preferable to have a job too.

When you have small children, Mom needs to be there for them.  Infants and toddlers do not belong in day care for 10 hours a day.  They need to be home with mom.  And, if you have multiple children of school age, it's difficult to do right by a full time job.  But, when the kids go to high school or grow up and move out, there's no reason a woman can't work. 

Women have always worked, and frequently other than doing child- and house- care. For a fairly short period of time, and in the US, we achieved a level of prosperity that allowed women to stay at home and devote all of their time to maintaining the household.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Absalom on April 09, 2019, 02:10:49 PM
Tribalism will be the death of the American experiment.
---------------------------------
Intuitive and on the mark!
Africa, Latin America as well as substantial portions of Asia,
remain bastions of this third world mentality.
Europe as a result of the wisdom of Greece and later Rome
rid themselves of tribalism allowing it to create and thrive.
Both the USA and Canada were the direct beneficiaries.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 09, 2019, 02:17:57 PM
Today it's not a black and white issue. 

It is never, and has never been a black and white issue.

Quote
You can have both and if you make some concessions and keep your priorities straight, neither will suffer.  We just don't have the crushing, overwhelming labor required to maintain a household properly that we had in the past, so it is possible and maybe even preferable to have a job too.

I think that largely to be false - I think the things that women used to care about are being woefully neglected as a result. Primarily and especially, the children - Not only in the household, but in the larger scope that used to network neighborhoods and churches and etc.

Quote

When you have small children, Mom needs to be there for them.  Infants and toddlers do not belong in day care for 10 hours a day.  They need to be home with mom.  And, if you have multiple children of school age, it's difficult to do right by a full time job.  But, when the kids go to high school or grow up and move out, there's no reason a woman can't work. 

Never said otherwise. Though I will assert that home schooling is far superior... And that requires much more commitment, generally by the woman, and that networking I mentioned above, both of which are now absent.

Quote
Women have always worked, and frequently other than doing child- and house- care. For a fairly short period of time, and in the US, we achieved a level of prosperity that allowed women to stay at home and devote all of their time to maintaining the household.

Yes, women have always worked, but the priority was in care of the (greater) house, church, and community. That is still true, as proven in the fields that women choose to dominate. But in choosing careers helping and caring for others, they neglect their own - a precious commodity beyond all price. And I reiterate: It is a damn cryin shame.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 02:27:50 PM
It is never, and has never been a black and white issue.

I think that largely to be false - I think the things that women used to care about are being woefully neglected as a result. Primarily and especially, the children - Not only in the household, but in the larger scope that used to network neighborhoods and churches and etc.

Never said otherwise. Though I will assert that home schooling is far superior... And that requires much more commitment, generally by the woman, and that networking I mentioned above, both of which are now absent.

That I agree with.

Quote
Yes, women have always worked, but the priority was in care of the (greater) house, church, and community. That is still true, as proven in the fields that women choose to dominate. But in choosing careers helping and caring for others, they neglect their own - a precious commodity beyond all price. And I reiterate: It is a damn cryin shame.

No, it's not a damn cryin shame.  It's a great thing, if done right.  You ignored where I lined out that there are limits to what one woman can do, and you have to wait until you can go devote time and pursue a career, outside the house. 

And, where was this magical land where women didn't have to work?  Not in this world for most of humanity.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 09, 2019, 02:46:55 PM
"Tribalism"?   What do you think tribalism means?

SoCons and Fiscons sticking together to keep Commies away from the levers of power.  If those Fiscons don't kick the Socon fanatics out of the party then it's Tribalism.  Kasich was the only answer (to a very stupid question) in 2016.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 09, 2019, 02:47:11 PM
That I agree with.

No, it's not a damn cryin shame.  It's a great thing, if done right.  You ignored where I lined out that there are limits to what one woman can do, and you have to wait until you can go devote time and pursue a career, outside the house. 

And, where was this magical land where women didn't have to work?  Not in this world for most of humanity.

There is no such magical land - As I admitted above, it has never been a black and white issue.

As to the limits you have designed - That is not what is happening. It is quite the other way - Career women are pursuing college and careers in their youth and retiring early as the biological clock begins to sound the alarm.

But even that is not the mean. At the mean, women are working, and someone else is raising their children. They feed their children shit, because they no longer have the time for gardens and shopping. The household costs far more because she no longer has the time for canning, flea markets, garage sales, and Sally Ann's... In the larger scope, they are absent from PTA. They are absent from church activities. they are absent from the care of the children and elders of the greater House... Those that are still there are now overwhelmed and so it all is becoming neglected to the point of utter breakdown.

That which is priceless and precious goes wanting. And YES, it is a damn, crying shame.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Absalom on April 09, 2019, 02:51:28 PM
"Tribalism"?   What do you think tribalism means?
-------------------------------
Tribalism is the exaltation of and loyalty to the group; it is the catalyst for
collectivism, socialism and Marxism.
Individualism is the exaltation of and loyalty to the self; promoting self-discipline,
responsibility and perseverance, among many attitudes and behaviors.
It is a foundational value of Western Civilization.

Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 03:21:50 PM
SoCons and Fiscons sticking together to keep Commies away from the levers of power.  If those Fiscons don't kick the Socon fanatics out of the party then it's Tribalism.  Kasich was the only answer (to a very stupid question) in 2016.

Yes, the current use of "tribalism" is a leftist meme, used generally to say "white people bad".  I was hoping @Jazzhead would think about what he was saying.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 03:22:39 PM
There is no such magical land - As I admitted above, it has never been a black and white issue.

As to the limits you have designed - That is not what is happening. It is quite the other way - Career women are pursuing college and careers in their youth and retiring early as the biological clock begins to sound the alarm.

But even that is not the mean. At the mean, women are working, and someone else is raising their children. They feed their children shit, because they no longer have the time for gardens and shopping. The household costs far more because she no longer has the time for canning, flea markets, garage sales, and Sally Ann's... In the larger scope, they are absent from PTA. They are absent from church activities. they are absent from the care of the children and elders of the greater House... Those that are still there are now overwhelmed and so it all is becoming neglected to the point of utter breakdown.

That which is priceless and precious goes wanting. And YES, it is a damn, crying shame.

You and I aren't saying the same thing.  Your brush is way too broad.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 09, 2019, 03:25:53 PM
Yes, the current use of "tribalism" is a leftist meme, used generally to say "white people bad".  I was hoping @Jazzhead would think about what he was saying.   :shrug:

I'm betting you won't see an answer that satisfies.  Just some repetion of an earlier post.  I'd like to know myself but I don't ask things like that because I know I'll get a politician's answer.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 03:30:02 PM
I'm betting you won't see an answer that satisfies.  Just some repetion of an earlier post.  I'd like to know myself but I don't ask things like that because I know I'll get a politician's answer.

I thought @Absalom had a decent answer, but, no, I don't expect @Jazzhead to respond.  It would make his head hurt.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 09, 2019, 03:39:36 PM
You and I aren't saying the same thing.  Your brush is way too broad.

Necessarily so - It is a categorical error - Similar in kind to @Absalom 's portrayal of tribal v. individual:

Absalom is not wrong in the context to which he refers, but is at a categorical error. Man is a tribal creature and will always be - The problem is really a misdirection of that tribal feature from the Clan/House into falsely erected 'groups' that have no basis for loyalty.

Similarly, at the point and in the context of the individual woman, you are entirely right. But at the categorical level, Woman is going against all instinct, and is being misdirected to believe in things that simply are not true or even desirable - All for a price that is usually entirely negated by the cost of the sitter.

Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Cyber Liberty on April 09, 2019, 03:44:17 PM
I thought @Absalom had a decent answer, but, no, I don't expect @Jazzhead to respond.  It would make his head hurt.

I think @Absalom's answer was pretty good.  He's talked about it before, one of the things I've agreed with him about.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Gefn on April 09, 2019, 03:51:48 PM
A well-written cry from the heart?  I’ve read The Feminine Mystique.  The degree of anger and bitterness behind Friedan’s screed came through clearly.  To her, housewives were children in adult bodies, little princesses kept from fully maturing.  She was miserable in her own life, but instead of getting help, she needed to smear others. 



“...women who 'adjust' as housewives, who grow up wanting to be 'just a housewife,' are in as much danger as the millions who walked to their own death in the concentration camps...they ate suffering a slow death of mind and spirit.
Betty Friedan, The Feminine Mystique

I thought she basically took Mary Wollenstonecraft’s book “A Vindication on the Rights of Women” 1792 and made it for modern times. Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem were not the first women to want women’s rights.

Personally, I think if a woman wants to be a housewife and she can, no stigma. I know a lot of women who feel like they have to work and have careers and are miserable
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 09, 2019, 04:47:37 PM
What was disturbing about all the anger and hatred of their country coming from the sixties feminists was their whining about not having the same career opportunities as males.
In many cases that was true...many males were not ready to accept women as equal competitors in the marketplace.
But at the time events were changing rapidly. Since the end of WWII many young women were enrolling in institutions of higher learning.  The numbers of females were approaching the numbers of males who were going on to colleges and universities.
What people forget is that before WWII only a very small percentage of males went to college. In 1940 only about half the population, male or female, finished high school.
After WWII the numbers of both sexes going on to IOHL boomed.  It was inevitable that women would start entering fields previously mostly male or all male.
My point is that many leftists, especially angry, leftist feminists, fomented the idea that all American males had these wonderful jobs they loved while all women were relegated to their kitchens while being pregnant.
Until about fifty-sixty years ago a very large percentage of American males still worked hard, physical, many times dangerous jobs without great pay. Many of them still  work those types of jobs.
When I started working in an office at a Fortune 500 company in my hometown in the early seventies there were quite a few women who had been working there for many years before I started.  Many of them also had families and children. So the tale that all women were relegated to their homes before the seventies was false.
There was an inevitable lag time before women would start equaling men in numbers in certain professional positions, but they are now doing it.
However, few women wish to do the numerous dangerous, dirty jobs that still have to be done. If they want to do them, more power to them.
The idea of everybody having a great,wonderful career in whatever profession you choose is only a fairly recent one in the scheme of things for both sexes.

@goatprairie

Great post.

There are women who would like to be at home but can't, for various reasons.  There are also women who prefer to work and who would be driven crazy at home.  My husband's sister was one of them.  There wasn't a domestic bone in her body.  She's changed a little since remarrying.  Her nursing supervisor job was exhausting, and once she quit, she started to find out she actually liked being at home.  Now she's always dragging me to Hobby Lobby to look at something for the house.   :laugh:

Personally, working a job was nothing but stressful for me and my husband.  We ate a lot of takeout food, and I would find myself vaccuuming at eleven p.m., in a bad mood.  I wouldn't let him help me because I had my own way of doing things, which was silly.

 He kept telling me to quit, but I couldn't take that step.  Until management tried to increase my hours and told me I had no choice.  I said "Yes, I do," and walked out.  It was definitely right for us.

I would never try to tell women in general that they need to be at home because I don't know their situations.  When my sister-in-law was thinking about quitting her job, she said to me, honestly, "I don't know if I'll have an identity without my job."  I replied, okay, but what does it say if your identity is what you do nine-to-five and without it you're lost?

Some women say that being a homemaker is a waste of life.  When I die, I'll have made one man happy---the man God intended for me.  That's enough for me.

Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 09, 2019, 05:00:37 PM
I thought she basically took Mary Wollenstonecraft’s book “A Vindication on the Rights of Women” 1792 and made it for modern times. Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinem were not the first women to want women’s rights.

Personally, I think if a woman wants to be a housewife and she can, no stigma. I know a lot of women who feel like they have to work and have careers and are miserable

@Freya

I haven't read that book, but I looked up some quotes, and I think I might add it to my list if it's on Kindle.  Mary Wollstonecraft's--and her contemporaries, and those who came after for a long time---genuinely wanted to end the status of women as property.  I can't put Steinem or Friedan in that class, though.  Steinem was the original leftwing man-hating feminist.  Much of what's wrong with third-wave feminism was originally rolled out by her.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Jazzhead on April 09, 2019, 05:01:52 PM
"Tribalism"?   What do you think tribalism means?

@Sanguine ,  I commend to you this excellent column by Bobby Jindal in this morning's WSJ:  Conservatives, Resist the Tribal Temptation  (https://www.wsj.com/articles/conservatives-resist-the-tribal-temptation-11554761423)
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Gefn on April 09, 2019, 05:06:29 PM
@Freya

I haven't read that book, but I looked up some quotes, and I think I might add it to my list if it's on Kindle.  Mary Wollstonecraft's--and her contemporaries, and those who came after for a long time---genuinely wanted to end the status of women as property.  I can't put Steinem or Friedan in that class, though.  Steinem was the original leftwing man-hating feminist.  Much of what's wrong with third-wave feminism was originally rolled out by her.

I don’t understand 3rd wave. I get the first two. Maybe I need to read more of it. Mary Wollenstonecraft was really interesting as a person, and she was the mother of Mary Shelley.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: goatprairie on April 09, 2019, 05:10:35 PM
@goatprairie

Great post.

There are women who would like to be at home but can't, for various reasons.  There are also women who prefer to work and who would be driven crazy at home.  My husband's sister was one of them.  There wasn't a domestic bone in her body.  She's changed a little since remarrying.  Her nursing supervisor job was exhausting, and once she quit, she started to find out she actually liked being at home.  Now she's always dragging me to Hobby Lobby to look at something for the house.   :laugh:

Personally, working a job was nothing but stressful for me and my husband.  We ate a lot of takeout food, and I would find myself vaccuuming at eleven p.m., in a bad mood.  I wouldn't let him help me because I had my own way of doing things, which was silly.

 He kept telling me to quit, but I couldn't take that step.  Until management tried to increase my hours and told me I had no choice.  I said "Yes, I do," and walked out.  It was definitely right for us.

I would never try to tell women in general that they need to be at home because I don't know their situations.  When my sister-in-law was thinking about quitting her job, she said to me, honestly, "I don't know if I'll have an identity without my job."  I replied, okay, but what does it say if your identity is what you do nine-to-five and without it you're lost?

Some women say that being a homemaker is a waste of life.  When I die, I'll have made one man happy---the man God intended for me.  That's enough for me.
"I wouldn't let him help me because I had my own way of doing things,"

Ha,ha...had to laugh. That's what my wife says when I volunteer to do some household task. I never seem to be able to do it the way she likes it done.
 
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: goatprairie on April 09, 2019, 05:18:07 PM
@Freya

I haven't read that book, but I looked up some quotes, and I think I might add it to my list if it's on Kindle.  Mary Wollstonecraft's--and her contemporaries, and those who came after for a long time---genuinely wanted to end the status of women as property.  I can't put Steinem or Friedan in that class, though.  Steinem was the original leftwing man-hating feminist.  Much of what's wrong with third-wave feminism was originally rolled out by her.
"Steinem was the original leftwing man-hating feminist."

When the angry sixties feminists came out in full force, I immediately viewed them as a negative entity.....even though I was more liberal at the time and was technically for many things they advocated.
For one thing, I've always been anti-abortion, and pro-abortion was one of their major planks. Also, they made no bones about viewing men as their enemy. A lot of them were Marxists.
But what really irritated me was their anti-American attitudes. Looking up the bios of a number of those unhappy, miserable wretches, quite a few of them grew up in the lap of luxury or had quite a few more things growing up than me or my siblings.
Yet they constantly screeched out their hatred of men, capitalism, and their own country.
I've despised the lot of them ever since. Especially Steinem.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 09, 2019, 05:19:36 PM
I don’t understand 3rd wave. I get the first two. Maybe I need to read more of it. Mary Wollenstonecraft was really interesting as a person, and she was the mother of Mary Shelley.


@Freya

Yes, and it’s not getting any better.  There seems to be a bottomless well of rage.

Ah, that’s right!  I couldn’t figure out why the name rang a little bell.


Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: corbe on April 09, 2019, 05:29:44 PM
"I wouldn't let him help me because I had my own way of doing things,"

Ha,ha...had to laugh. That's what my wife says when I volunteer to do some household task. I never seem to be able to do it the way she likes it done.


   I did that on purpose, it worked, too.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 05:42:42 PM
@Sanguine ,  I commend to you this excellent column by Bobby Jindal in this morning's WSJ:  Conservatives, Resist the Tribal Temptation  (https://www.wsj.com/articles/conservatives-resist-the-tribal-temptation-11554761423)

Unfortunately, @Jazzhead, it's behind a paywall.  Just give me the elevator speech.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 09, 2019, 06:07:12 PM
"Steinem was the original leftwing man-hating feminist."

When the angry sixties feminists came out in full force, I immediately viewed them as a negative entity.....even though I was more liberal at the time and was technically for many things they advocated.
For one thing, I've always been anti-abortion, and pro-abortion was one of their major planks. Also, they made no bones about viewing men as their enemy. A lot of them were Marxists.
But what really irritated me was their anti-American attitudes. Looking up the bios of a number of those unhappy, miserable wretches, quite a few of them grew up in the lap of luxury or had quite a few more things growing up than me or my siblings.
Yet they constantly screeched out their hatred of men, capitalism, and their own country.
I've despised the lot of them ever since. Especially Steinem.

@goatprairie

That’s how it is, much of the time. A lot of the leftist screamers came from upper-class homes, but they never learned gratitude. 


Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Fishrrman on April 09, 2019, 08:42:51 PM
The "rise of feminism" is the primary reason behind The West's coming collapse.

Look at The West, vis-a-vis islam, a patriarchal culture (and that's an understatement).

As The West slides further into decline, islam is ascendant.

And.. so it will go until Western men re-assert themselves and literally "push women back into their place" in The West.

Otherwise, things are gonna keep goin'... as they're goin' now.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 08:49:20 PM
The "rise of feminism" is the primary reason behind The West's coming collapse.

Look at The West, vis-a-vis islam, a patriarchal culture (and that's an understatement).

As The West slides further into decline, islam is ascendant.

And.. so it will go until Western men re-assert themselves and literally "push women back into their place" in The West.

Otherwise, things are gonna keep goin'... as they're goin' now.

Sometimes I think we speak the same language, and then, suddenly - I realize we don't at all.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: corbe on April 09, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
That Genie ain't never going back in her Bottle.  @Fishrrman

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8NFt7923llc/SuiaLxf8mDI/AAAAAAAADNE/0s76cqA4m2A/s400/1169431296.jpg)
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 09, 2019, 09:03:38 PM
That Genie ain't never going back in her Bottle.  @Fishrrman

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8NFt7923llc/SuiaLxf8mDI/AAAAAAAADNE/0s76cqA4m2A/s400/1169431296.jpg)

 *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 09, 2019, 10:43:20 PM
The "rise of feminism" is the primary reason behind The West's coming collapse.

Look at The West, vis-a-vis islam, a patriarchal culture (and that's an understatement).

As The West slides further into decline, islam is ascendant.

And.. so it will go until Western men re-assert themselves and literally "push women back into their place" in The West.

Otherwise, things are gonna keep goin'... as they're goin' now.

@Fishrrman

My place is telling you to sit down.  Your place is there, in the seat, quiet.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 10, 2019, 02:03:36 PM
The "rise of feminism" is the primary reason behind The West's coming collapse.

Not quite, but that is close to true.
Moral turpitude and straying from the laws of YHWH is the primary reason. Feminism is but a symptom.

Quote
Look at The West, vis-a-vis islam, a patriarchal culture (and that's an understatement).
As The West slides further into decline, islam is ascendant.
And.. so it will go until Western men re-assert themselves and literally "push women back into their place" in The West.


Again, close to true. In fact, the feminazation of western culture is designed by it's nature to breed strength out of men. When men are weak enough to be vulnerable, other men come and take their crap, to include their women... That's how it works.


Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 10, 2019, 03:59:09 PM
"I wouldn't let him help me because I had my own way of doing things,"

Ha,ha...had to laugh. That's what my wife says when I volunteer to do some household task. I never seem to be able to do it the way she likes it done.

@goatprairie

Lol

For what it's worth, he pulls the same thing with me sometimes.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 10, 2019, 04:01:08 PM
Not quite, but that is close to true.
Moral turpitude and straying from the laws of YHWH is the primary reason. Feminism is but a symptom.

Again, close to true. In fact, the feminazation of western culture is designed by it's nature to breed strength out of men. When men are weak enough to be vulnerable, other men come and take their crap, to include their women... That's how it works.

Y'all ought to be strong enough not to let women breed it out of you. 
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: goatprairie on April 10, 2019, 04:31:32 PM
@goatprairie

Lol

For what it's worth, he pulls the same thing with me sometimes.
My wife likes to do a lot of tasks that  traditionally were (but not anymore) the prerogative of the man.
 Some years ago we had to assemble a tv stand for our new, large HD tv.  The components were heavy and unwieldy. I actually had to grapple with her to put it together. She wanted to do most of it by herself.
She is not a big woman...5 feet of p*ss and vinegar. When she wants her way, it's best to get out of her way....if you know what's good for you.
When I put together one in my downstairs cave, she kept asking me if I needed help. I'm not the greatest do-it-yourself person, but I managed to put it together without the tv crashing down.
She insists on doing outdoor painting chores (doors) even though she's not great at it. I do the snow clearing, lawn cutting, raking, and roto-till her garden.
But I love my wife...most of the time. Well, actually all the time.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: corbe on April 10, 2019, 04:56:38 PM
T.G. Sheppard -I Loved 'Em Every One

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7BF9Z8ok6A#)

   Sometimes I wish I wasn't so GD old to want to get married again and become a 3 time loser upon my Death.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 10, 2019, 05:18:39 PM
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjkLf_X88WM#)
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Fishrrman on April 10, 2019, 09:41:39 PM
Queen wrote:
"My place is telling you to sit down.  Your place is there, in the seat, quiet."

I will not sit down.
I will speak my piece.
If you don't like it, lump it.

Corbe is on my ignore list, but I see Sanguine quoting about the genie never going back into the bottle.

OK, I can accept that.
It is what it is.

But the decline and fall of The West is what it is, too.
It won't stop, because no one will dare put the genie "back into the bottle".

(Wasn't Barbra Eden a cutie?)
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: corbe on April 10, 2019, 10:07:07 PM
   Really @Fishrrman what is it about me that confounds you enough to put me on Ignore? 
   Enlighten me, maybe I'll change, depending on the strength of your argument, but probably not.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Sanguine on April 10, 2019, 10:08:13 PM
   Really @Fishrrman what is it about me that confounds you enough to put me on Ignore? 
   Enlighten me, maybe I'll change, depending on the strength of your argument, but probably not.

Corbe is a good guy.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 10, 2019, 10:09:06 PM
"I wouldn't let him help me because I had my own way of doing things,"

Ha,ha...had to laugh. That's what my wife says when I volunteer to do some household task. I never seem to be able to do it the way she likes it done.
That's difficult to master.... :whistle:
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: corbe on April 10, 2019, 10:15:30 PM
   Thank You @Sanguine I know it can get pretty intense in here at times and as much as I appear to pizz on some Trumpers parades here I (almost) always have the upmost respect for each and everyone of them, it's how I roll, particularly with Friends.

   PS:  My Ignore List is empty
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 10, 2019, 10:49:50 PM
Not quite, but that is close to true.
Moral turpitude and straying from the laws of YHWH is the primary reason. Feminism is but a symptom.

Again, close to true. In fact, the feminazation of western culture is designed by it's nature to breed strength out of men. When men are weak enough to be vulnerable, other men come and take their crap, to include their women... That's how it works.
You are close, but there is a relationship.

Most of the early moral lessons I had were at my mother's knee. The fundamental rules of behaviour, of honor, of honesty, loyalty, of that which is not to be done (not extreme, but simply things which were simply considered to be socially unacceptable behaviour), manners (including "parlor manners"), hygiene, first aid (Mom ran ambulance calls in later years, Dad was a volunteer fireman from 16--still is--with some time off for Korea), not to mention most of my exposure to classical music and much of my introduction to literature all took place in time spent with my mother, before I went to school (no kindergarten, straight to first grade at 5), and after. That does not begin to take into account the discussions of issues, from political to other topics, that would not have had a chance to happen had my mother worked a 40 hour week, which would have mandated a commute.
But what stands out the most, after all these years, is the moral foundation which was set in stone at that age, that guidance of what was right and what was not has held me in good stead so long as I didn't try to rationalize around it or ignore it--something which inevitably went badly. That influence during my earliest formative years was profound.
Not that my father did not have his influence as well, and not that that influence wasn't and isn't a positive one, but Mom had the first five, overwhelmingly, and set the stage for later personal and character development.
How many children are getting that today?

Now, granted, I grew up well before the Carter years, where a woman having a job (the 'two income family') was more optional than it is now and in the years after the surge of inflation that accompanied all those 'extra' incomes, and that is more difficult to do now.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on April 10, 2019, 11:16:59 PM
Queen wrote:
"My place is telling you to sit down.  Your place is there, in the seat, quiet."

I will not sit down.
I will speak my piece.
If you don't like it, lump it.

Corbe is on my ignore list, but I see Sanguine quoting about the genie never going back into the bottle.

OK, I can accept that.
It is what it is.

But the decline and fall of The West is what it is, too.
It won't stop, because no one will dare put the genie "back into the bottle".

(Wasn't Barbra Eden a cutie?)

@Fishrrman

She definitely was.  But when you spout stupid crap about “forcing women back into their place” I’m going to tell you to shut it and have a seat.  In fact, I’ll repeat my instructions now.

Let’s note, also, that you’re waiting for someone else to take care of the woman problem instead of addressing it yourself.  Don’t think you can handle us?
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 11, 2019, 02:57:39 AM
You are close, but there is a relationship.

@Smokin Joe
Thank you for making my greater point, Smoke. Great post, which I agree with entirely.

I found myself on an anthropological hunt this last week or so...

I was sent some youtube vids about surprise pregnancy announcements -primarily where they were performed at large family gatherings - and the comparison was such that I went looking for a passel of em. Watching the reaction of the crowd to the announcement was an intriguing exercise, especially in large families with an obvious abundance of children - Though my observations were pretty uniform across the board...

The basic story is always the same - Some device is used to catch the family unawares, and ether they have to figure out what is happening, like a search for a present in the kitchen for the grandmother-to-be, culminating in finding a physical bun in the physical oven, as an instance... Or the surprise is blurted out at an opportune time - Like the family gathered together for a photo opportunity, and instead of saying 'cheese', Someone will yell out 'Melissa's going to have a baby!'

One way or the other, the resulting reaction is always about the same...

Usually there's a few moments of everybody clicking on empty chambers, trying in vain to make sense of the result (which is obvious as all get out), and usually one of the elder mothers hits a live chamber...

Suddenly there is an ear-splitting shriek of joy which is almost immediately picked up by every mother in the room, like they all caught on at once... I ain't kidding Joe, they all leap up at once, toddlers tumbling from laps, small dogs being punted across the room, Men with an 'oh shit' look on their faces as they try to get out front and away from the thundering, bawling herd, shrieking and cackling in some communication only they can understand, as they roar inexorably, a mounting and unstoppable tidal wave of estrogen and tears bearing down on the poor pregnant girl.

I don't know how she survives it, I'll tell you what...

Anyone can see how those women are centered.

How they could be buffaloed into thinking otherwise is entirely beyond me. I have been a long, long time in the workforce, and I can say with authority that there is nothing, *nothing* that powerful to be found.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 11, 2019, 03:10:11 AM
@Smokin Joe
Thank you for making my greater point, Smoke. Great post, which I agree with entirely.

I found myself on an anthropological hunt this last week or so...

I was sent some youtube vids about surprise pregnancy announcements -primarily where they were performed at large family gatherings - and the comparison was such that I went looking for a passel of em. Watching the reaction of the crowd to the announcement was an intriguing exercise, especially in large families with an obvious abundance of children - Though my observations were pretty uniform across the board...

The basic story is always the same - Some device is used to catch the family unawares, and ether they have to figure out what is happening, like a search for a present in the kitchen for the grandmother-to-be, culminating in finding a physical bun in the physical oven, as an instance... Or the surprise is blurted out at an opportune time - Like the family gathered together for a photo opportunity, and instead of saying 'cheese', Someone will yell out 'Melissa's going to have a baby!'

One way or the other, the resulting reaction is always about the same...

Usually there's a few moments of everybody clicking on empty chambers, trying in vain to make sense of the result (which is obvious as all get out), and usually one of the elder mothers hits a live chamber...

Suddenly there is an ear-splitting shriek of joy which is almost immediately picked up by every mother in the room, like they all caught on at once... I ain't kidding Joe, they all leap up at once, toddlers tumbling from laps, small dogs being punted across the room, Men with an 'oh shit' look on their faces as they try to get out front and away from the thundering, bawling herd, shrieking and cackling in some communication only they can understand, as they roar inexorably, a mounting and unstoppable tidal wave of estrogen and tears bearing down on the poor pregnant girl.

I don't know how she survives it, I'll tell you what...

Anyone can see how those women are centered.

How they could be buffaloed into thinking otherwise is entirely beyond me. I have been a long, long time in the workforce, and I can say with authority that there is nothing, *nothing* that powerful to be found.
Excellent point, and spot-on. Babies make grandma's worlds go round....not to mention the rest of the family!

Anyone who ever watched a little girl with a new sibling knows that 'mothering' is hardwired in.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: roamer_1 on April 11, 2019, 03:52:50 PM
Excellent point, and spot-on. Babies make grandma's worlds go round....not to mention the rest of the family!

Anyone who ever watched a little girl with a new sibling knows that 'mothering' is hardwired in.

That's a fact.

Have you noticed when you are sitting in a diner having your lunch... If you can count the french fries with your eyes, there ain't enough french fries? French fries are supposed to be plentiful.

Same thing with old women and (great) grandchildren... They are her crown and her honor, every one of them steered and molded, raised up by her hand.

My younger son got married last summer on the 4th of July, and the whole fam damily came in for the event. Such a wonderful wonderful time. The big house was rockin'... chocked-full and tamped down, as never before, and unable to contain my mother's bounty. It spewed forth in campers and tents out in the orchard and over in the big paddock. The dinner table and back deck, the normative places of gathering, could not hold them all, not by a long shot. Pavillions and  porta-potties... We ate a cow and a coop-full of chickens that week.

My dear mother, bless her heart, wore herself clean out, right in the thick of things the whole time. But there were jewels in her eyes. It was a pleasure to see her in her happiness, surrounded by her wealth, the labor of her years, exponentially returned to her by the grace of God. And they ALL love her beyond measure, every single one. And here's the kicker: It ain't even half done yet. There's slightly more than half of her grands that are yet to bear her fruit. Ten years from now, I wonder if the farm will hold them.

My heart truly aches for women who have been fooled into walking another path. There is simply nothing else that could even come close. That is the truth of 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen'. Is that where a woman belongs?

Oh hell, yeah.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: Smokin Joe on April 12, 2019, 07:19:22 PM
That's a fact.

Have you noticed when you are sitting in a diner having your lunch... If you can count the french fries with your eyes, there ain't enough french fries? French fries are supposed to be plentiful.

Same thing with old women and (great) grandchildren... They are her crown and her honor, every one of them steered and molded, raised up by her hand.

My younger son got married last summer on the 4th of July, and the whole fam damily came in for the event. Such a wonderful wonderful time. The big house was rockin'... chocked-full and tamped down, as never before, and unable to contain my mother's bounty. It spewed forth in campers and tents out in the orchard and over in the big paddock. The dinner table and back deck, the normative places of gathering, could not hold them all, not by a long shot. Pavillions and  porta-potties... We ate a cow and a coop-full of chickens that week.

My dear mother, bless her heart, wore herself clean out, right in the thick of things the whole time. But there were jewels in her eyes. It was a pleasure to see her in her happiness, surrounded by her wealth, the labor of her years, exponentially returned to her by the grace of God. And they ALL love her beyond measure, every single one. And here's the kicker: It ain't even half done yet. There's slightly more than half of her grands that are yet to bear her fruit. Ten years from now, I wonder if the farm will hold them.

My heart truly aches for women who have been fooled into walking another path. There is simply nothing else that could even come close. That is the truth of 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen'. Is that where a woman belongs?

Oh hell, yeah.
Only problem is the barefoot in the kitchen part. Every now and then something pops in the frying pan, and those burns can be painful...

Some women aren't wired for motherhood, it seems. That's okay, everyone should know their limitations, but assuming everyone has the same limitations is an old Liberal trick played upon the masses to control them.


As viewed through a great-grandpa's eyes, motherhood is part of a normal cycle of growth and change that women experience through their lives for many, but it requires selflessness, love, and some work, to say the least.
Maturity is nice to start, but will be obtained along the way.

Selfish, self centered, lazy women need not apply, and will not do well--not just at motherhood, but at most anything.

That does not preclude a career, but there is a lot less satisfaction for most in the superficial attainment of material goods which likely will be unappreciated, or even unwanted by those who follow, or auctioned off for pennies on the dollar when they are gone. Nice to find such stuff in thrift stores, though...but in the end, none of it can give back, none of it can love you or build memories  (nor cause heartache) like a child.
Title: Re: Are Women Malcontents?... Dennis Prager
Post by: To-Whose-Benefit? on April 13, 2019, 12:28:55 AM
Malcontent?

 Prager get off your granite stallion.

If I live to be 1,000 years old I will still be a Malcontent with the way half of Society tacitly swallows what No One Should swallow.

Murder of the unborn?

Don't matter Where you 're at on the Death Penalty with these victims.

They never had a Chance to do anything that would make them Deserving of being Put To Death By The State or Anyone else.