The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: mystery-ak on February 12, 2019, 12:25:04 PM

Title: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: mystery-ak on February 12, 2019, 12:25:04 PM
Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
By Jordan Fabian - 02/12/19 12:14 PM EST

President Trump on Tuesday knocked a bipartisan deal to avert a government shutdown while providing some funding for barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border.

“I can’t say I’m happy. I can’t say I’m thrilled,” Trump told reporters during a Cabinet meeting.

He did not say whether he would sign or veto the proposal but added he would hold a meeting to discuss it later.

The proposal would provide $1.375 billion in funding for roughly 55 miles of new barriers along the southern border, well short of the $5.7 billion Trump demanded.

In exchange, Democrats dropped their insistence that Congress place a hard cap on the number of immigrants that Immigration and Customs Enforcement is allowed to detain at a given time.

more
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/429603-trump-cant-say-im-happy-with-border-security-deal
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: skeeter on February 12, 2019, 12:31:41 PM
So the rats threw out a last minute demand then retracted it as a 'concession' to Trump dropping a requirement he's had since the get-go.

Its like negotiating with Adnani Arabs.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 12:55:20 PM
Anyone else getting a déjà vu feeling? Time and again, he’s shown to be a terrible negotiator. The only thing that has prevented disaster is pushback, from the base and pundits. Last year, around the same time...


"I think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with.," he said. "I am very much reliant on the people in this room. I know most of the people on both sides; have a lot of respect for the people on both sides, and my -- what I approve is going to be very much reliant on what the people in this room come to me with. I have great confidence in the people. If they come to me with things that I'm not in love with, I'm going to do it, because I respect them."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/01/09/trump_promises_to_sign_an_answer_for_daca_that_will_be_a_bill_of_love.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/01/09/trump_promises_to_sign_an_answer_for_daca_that_will_be_a_bill_of_love.html)


I expect this legislation will get signed and we will have another ‘never again’ protest ceremony, as we did with the omnibus bill, last year.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: XenaLee on February 12, 2019, 01:02:03 PM
Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
By Jordan Fabian - 02/12/19 12:14 PM EST

President Trump on Tuesday knocked a bipartisan deal to avert a government shutdown while providing some funding for barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border.

“I can’t say I’m happy. I can’t say I’m thrilled,” Trump told reporters during a Cabinet meeting.

He did not say whether he would sign or veto the proposal but added he would hold a meeting to discuss it later.

The proposal would provide $1.375 billion in funding for roughly 55 miles of new barriers along the southern border, well short of the $5.7 billion Trump demanded.

In exchange, Democrats dropped their insistence that Congress place a hard cap on the number of immigrants that Immigration and Customs Enforcement is allowed to detain at a given time.

more
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/429603-trump-cant-say-im-happy-with-border-security-deal

Gee.... that's awful "white" of em.    888mouth
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 01:13:28 PM
In the same exchange, where he says ‘I’m not happy,’ he also said he took ownership of the last shutdown, always had, and was proud of it. He’s not even pretending to be honest, anymore.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:14:14 PM
He shouldn't be thrilled....if he signs a deal like that it's bye bye 2020.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:14:55 PM
In the same exchange, where he says ‘I’m not happy,’ he also said he took ownership of the last shutdown, always had, and was proud of it. He’s not even pretending to be honest, anymore.

I'm starting to get bored with this game...

ETA:  I'm talking about the President's game....
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: ABX on February 12, 2019, 01:16:52 PM
Then which dwarf are you?

No one (should) cares about how you feel. They care about what you do.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: skeeter on February 12, 2019, 01:17:04 PM
I'm starting to get bored with this game...

ETA:  I'm talking about the President's game....

I'm tuning out until its all over. Results are all that matter.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 01:18:20 PM
He shouldn't be thrilled....if he signs a deal like that it's bye bye 2020.


It would seem that his best move, at this point, would be pocket veto. That way, he would not have to suffer the potential embarrassment of an actual veto override, blame passage on Congress, and also be able to say he did not actually sign it.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:19:54 PM
I'm tuning out until its all over. Results are all that matter.

That's where I've been for a while.  It's become more difficult than ever trying to suss out what's going on.  In December Trump sounded like he was going to sign a bill with no wall, then he did a 180.  This "feels" the same.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:21:15 PM

It would seem that his best move, at this point, would be pocket veto. That way, he would not have to suffer the potential embarrassment of an actual veto override, blame passage on Congress, and also be able to say he did not actually sign it.

Doesn't the Congress have to be out of session for that?  If he refuses to sign or veto a bill, it becomes law anyway....

ETA:  I missed this part when I first read your post:  "...blame passage on Congress..."
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: bilo on February 12, 2019, 01:22:14 PM
Lets see how this plays out. Obviously the Pubs are worthless when negotiating a deal with the Rats. The next move is Trump's, does he agree to it or does he reject it?

If Trump rejects the latest agreement does he declare a national emergency, or use his executive authority to direct construction using available funds from various depts.?

I don't believe there will be another shut down. I think Trump signs a CR, rejects the "deal" and begins building using identified funds from various depts.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: ABX on February 12, 2019, 01:23:58 PM
Doesn't the Congress have to be out of session for that?  If he refuses to sign or veto a bill, it becomes law anyway....

You are correct. f the President doesn't sign a bill in ten days 'if congress is in session' it automatically becomes law. He approves it through inaction.

If congress is out of session, then you have a pocket veto.

This is called the Presentment Clause of the Constitution. Article I, Section 7, Clauses 2 and 3

There is no session recess planned in the next 10 days.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: ABX on February 12, 2019, 01:25:05 PM

If Trump rejects the latest agreement does he declare a national emergency, or use his executive authority to direct construction using available funds from various depts.?


He could have done this two years ago. All of these games were not necessary (unless the game was the actual goal instead of the wall).
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: bilo on February 12, 2019, 01:26:18 PM
I'm tuning out until its all over. Results are all that matter.

Good advice. It's a long slow process and everyone wants things resolved immediately.

I'm sticking with Trump. He is relentless and he is smart enough to know he has no chance of being re-elected if he doesn't build the wall.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 01:28:40 PM
Doesn't the Congress have to be out of session for that?  If he refuses to sign or veto a bill, it becomes law anyway....

ETA:  I missed this part when I first read your post:  "...blame passage on Congress..."


Yes, I meant the customary 10 day period, where it does become law. That way, it can go to into effect, without his signature. The only sticking point would be the timeframe. The government will partially shut down again, after midnight, on Friday. Waiting the prescribed 10 days would cause a shutdown of about one week, or so.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: bigheadfred on February 12, 2019, 01:33:01 PM
He could have done this two years ago. All of these games were not necessary (unless the game was the actual goal instead of the wall).

The game has always been the goal.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: libertybele on February 12, 2019, 01:33:46 PM
He could have done this two years ago. All of these games were not necessary (unless the game was the actual goal instead of the wall).

That has been my point of contention all along.  He waited till the last darn minute to do anything and he could have taken discretionary funds and built the dang wall.  He could have declared a national emergency two years ago and the issue may have been resolved through the courts before the mid terms; probably retaining the majority in the house.

Should have, would have, could have, but we need to deal with what he does in the present.  He's stated that he's not happy with the deal.  Now is the time to send e-mails, and pick up the phone and encourage that he vetoes this ridiculous bill that falls millions and miles short of what is needed. 

I am hopeful that he will not back down and go forward with getting funds elsewhere.  Mike Lee has commented that he can get most of the wall built through constitutional means.

If he goes ahead and signs the bill, then to me he never had any intent of a wall and it was nothing more than a statement to get him elected to prevent a true conservative from winning.

His STOTU was the best I've ever heard and I'm placing my bets that Trump will not disappoint.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 01:34:46 PM
That's where I've been for a while.  It's become more difficult than ever trying to suss out what's going on.  In December Trump sounded like he was going to sign a bill with no wall, then he did a 180.  This "feels" the same.


The CR in December allowed $1.6B for ‘border security,’ but no wall. During the negotiations with the incoming Congress, Pelosi had said she would not give one dollar for the wall. Now, you can technically say she caved, because this bill has $1.3B for wall construction. However, I doubt she will take much fire from her side over it.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: bilo on February 12, 2019, 01:37:35 PM
He could have done this two years ago. All of these games were not necessary (unless the game was the actual goal instead of the wall).

He could have, but after the inauguration he made a point of trying to reach out to the establishment Pubs and to work with them. He had establishment Pubs appointed to his cabinet and staff. He made a point of trying to work with Ryan & McConnell, relying on them to advance his legislative agenda. In hindsight it was an error, but at the time it seemed like a good way to get a lot done.

A couple months ago Trump was indicating he was ready to sign the CR with 1.7 billion wall funding in it and an understanding that the balance of funding would be resolved by March. However, his base blew a gasket and Trump recognizing his mistake did a 180 and the shutdown followed. I don't believe Trump has never intended to build the wall. It was his misplaced faith in Ryan & McConnell that brought us to where we are today.

Going forward is the issue, not looking back. I believe Trump will get the wall built. He has too much at stake and his ego is too big to not get it done.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:40:13 PM

The CR in December allowed $1.6B for ‘border security,’ but no wall. During the negotiations with the incoming Congress, Pelosi had said she would not give one dollar for the wall. Now, you can technically say she caved, because this bill has $1.3B for wall construction. However, I doubt she will take much fire from her side over it.

I think she's still trying to apply strings to ensure whatever barrier will be ineffective. 
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: ABX on February 12, 2019, 01:41:09 PM
He is now saying he doesn't want another shutdown and it is unlikely, so it sounds like he is signaling he will sign it then blame whatever on the Dems.

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/693879227/trump-says-hes-not-happy-with-budget-deal-but-thinks-shutdown-unlikely (https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/693879227/trump-says-hes-not-happy-with-budget-deal-but-thinks-shutdown-unlikely)

Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Emjay on February 12, 2019, 01:42:45 PM
He shouldn't be thrilled....if he signs a deal like that it's bye bye 2020.

I would not go that far @Cyber Liberty but it would certainly cause a temporary disappointment.

I thought Trump seemed a little dispirited in the press conference this morning.  I think a lot of people are pulling at him to go different ways and some of those people are big fat cowards.

Trump did mention declaring a national emergency and cited several president who had done so.  He insisted the wall would get built.  I believe he really doesn't want another shutdown but whether he'll sign that crappy bill to avoid it, I'm not sure.

While this is going on, Trump is slowly and surely building strong support for a wall among the people and strong support for his own presidency.

I will pray for him to make the right decision.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: bigheadfred on February 12, 2019, 01:45:01 PM
apropos of nothing

Where have all the heroes gone?

Davy Crockett looks over the wall of the Alamo and sees 25,000 Mexicans marching towards them. He turns to Jim Bowie and says, "Looks like we're gonna pour some concrete".
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:46:41 PM
I would not go that far @Cyber Liberty but it would certainly cause a temporary disappointment.

I thought Trump seemed a little dispirited in the press conference this morning.  I think a lot of people are pulling at him to go different ways and some of those people are big fat cowards.

Trump did mention declaring a national emergency and cited several president who had done so.  He insisted the wall would get built.  I believe he really doesn't want another shutdown but whether he'll sign that crappy bill to avoid it, I'm not sure.

While this is going on, Trump is slowly and surely building strong support for a wall among the people and strong support for his own presidency.

I will pray for him to make the right decision.

It's hard to know what's the right decision.  It's why people are just refusing to pay attention and are just waiting until something comes out of the sausage factory.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:47:56 PM
apropos of nothing

Where have all the heroes gone?

Davy Crockett looks over the wall of the Alamo and sees 25,000 Mexicans marching towards them. He turns to Jim Bowie and says, "Looks like we're gonna pour some concrete".

"Heroes" don't do that anymore.  They just run for the US Senate in AZ.   9999hair out0000
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: libertybele on February 12, 2019, 01:49:25 PM
Well, he could also sign the deal to avoid a shutdown, then quietly utilize the funds that are available constitutionally and get the remainder of the wall built.  Last resort; in additional to signing to avoid a shut down, then declare a national emergency.  It would go through the courts with a possibility that he'd win.  Meanwhile he still would have immediate funds for 55 miles.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: bigheadfred on February 12, 2019, 01:49:54 PM
"Heroes" don't do that anymore.  They just run for the US Senate in AZ.   9999hair out0000

That sounds like a great hiding place.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Emjay on February 12, 2019, 01:51:18 PM
Good advice. It's a long slow process and everyone wants things resolved immediately.

I'm sticking with Trump. He is relentless and he is smart enough to know he has no chance of being re-elected if he doesn't build the wall.

Me, too @bilo  and, sorry, but I'm just naive enough to believe that Trump cares about America and actually believes we need a wall.  He makes that case passionately.

A lot of people around here think it is so easy, but Trump came in with a less than enthusiastic support from his own party, a lot of leftover angst from the election, and the nastiest bunch of democrats we've had in a while, and that's saying something.

I think he's done really well, slowly building more real support in his party and increasing his popularity among the public, while making real accomplishments in the economy, the job picture, trade, foreign policy and so much else.

I think Trump should declare a national emergency and be done with it, but I think he's facing from real fear and opposition from advisors and other Republicans.  I hope he ignores them but he can't just flip them off.

He needs our support.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Emjay on February 12, 2019, 01:52:57 PM
apropos of nothing

Where have all the heroes gone?

Davy Crockett looks over the wall of the Alamo and sees 25,000 Mexicans marching towards them. He turns to Jim Bowie and says, "Looks like we're gonna pour some concrete".

wop wop
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 01:59:28 PM
Well, he could also sign the deal to avoid a shutdown, then quietly utilize the funds that are available constitutionally and get the remainder of the wall built.  Last resort; in additional to signing to avoid a shut down, then declare a national emergency.  It would go through the courts with a possibility that he'd win.  Meanwhile he still would have immediate funds for 55 miles.


You can forget the original emergency declaration, as it was understood. It’s a pyrrich victory, because it gives the next inevitable Dem president free hand for their pet issues. That is the same reason you have seen the nuclear option exercise on personnel appointment, but not fiscal issues. It’s a political boomerang.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Victoria33 on February 12, 2019, 02:02:11 PM
In the same exchange, where he says ‘I’m not happy,’ he also said he took ownership of the last shutdown, always had, and was proud of it. He’s not even pretending to be honest, anymore.
@edpc

"Fake News Trump" is always Fake News Trump.  Or, in other words, "Liar Trump".  His lies are the best lies than anyone in the world ever had.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: libertybele on February 12, 2019, 02:11:08 PM

You can forget the original emergency declaration, as it was understood. It’s a pyrrich victory, because it gives the next inevitable Dem president free hand for their pet issues. That is the same reason you have seen the nuclear option exercise on personnel appointment, but not fiscal issues. It’s a political boomerang.

That's why I stated declaring a national emergency as a last resort.  There are other ways to get funding.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Emjay on February 12, 2019, 02:17:02 PM
That's why I stated declaring a national emergency as a last resort.  There are other ways to get funding.

We need to stop living in fear of what the next democrat who gets office will do.  It will be a disaster whatever Trump does.  And it's not as if declaring a national emergency is unheard of.  Trump cited several prior presidents who had done so and he certainly can point to as great an emergency, when people join forces hundreds of miles away and march to invade.

And @libertybele since you have such a handy supply of 'other ways' why don't you mention them to the President.

Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 02:22:31 PM
We need to stop living in fear of what the next democrat who gets office will do.  It will be a disaster whatever Trump does.  And it's not as if declaring a national emergency is unheard of.  Trump cited several prior presidents who had done so and he certainly can point to as great an emergency, when people join forces hundreds of miles away and march to invade.


Yes, you do have to worry about it. If the wall construction can be declared a national emergency, then gun control can be one, in the future, after a mass shooting. Similar declarations can be made for climate change, healthcare, etc.


Quote
And @libertybele since you have such a handy supply of 'other ways' why don't you mention them to the President.


It’s precisely what Sarah Sanders had said, prior to the December shutdown. Also, it’s what Mulvaney had been discussing, over the past couple days.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/18/sanders_the_president_has_asked_every_agency_to_find_money_to_pay_for_wall.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/18/sanders_the_president_has_asked_every_agency_to_find_money_to_pay_for_wall.html)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/429313-mulvaney-trump-can-move-money-around-to-get-wall-funding (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/429313-mulvaney-trump-can-move-money-around-to-get-wall-funding)
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: skeeter on February 12, 2019, 02:23:33 PM
That's why I stated declaring a national emergency as a last resort.  There are other ways to get funding.

If politics were all that mattered to him all Trump would need to do is declare the emergency. It wouldn't matter the outcome in the courts, his supporters wouldn't hold him accountable for what the 9th circuit court or squishy GOP congressmen say, they'd credit him for doing everything he could.

It seems he really does want to accomplish this the 'right' way.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 02:23:56 PM
We need to stop living in fear of what the next democrat who gets office will do.  It will be a disaster whatever Trump does.  And it's not as if declaring a national emergency is unheard of.  Trump cited several prior presidents who had done so and he certainly can point to as great an emergency, when people join forces hundreds of miles away and march to invade.

And @libertybele since you have such a handy supply of 'other ways' why don't you mention them to the President.

All we would have to do to cure that "fear" would be to make the Rat party illegal.  It was Rats not worrying about what happens when the GOP is in power is how the Filibuster became crippled.  They either assumed the GOP would never win elections again or didn't care about the long-term damage they were doing.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 02:24:59 PM

Yes, you do have to worry about it. If the wall construction can be declared a national emergency, then gun control can be one, in the future, after a mass shooting.  Similar decorations to be made for climate change, healthcare, etc.

I think you said it better than I...thanks.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: kevindavis on February 12, 2019, 02:27:23 PM
We need to stop living in fear of what the next democrat who gets office will do.  It will be a disaster whatever Trump does.  And it's not as if declaring a national emergency is unheard of.  Trump cited several prior presidents who had done so and he certainly can point to as great an emergency, when people join forces hundreds of miles away and march to invade.

And @libertybele since you have such a handy supply of 'other ways' why don't you mention them to the President.


What if the Dem declare a National Emergency on the Climate? Then they will implement the Green New Deal via Executive Action.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 02:28:06 PM
I think you said it better than I...thanks.


Except autocorrect changed ‘declarations’ to ‘decorations’ – LOL. I need to proofread better.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: bigheadfred on February 12, 2019, 02:30:13 PM
I am completely in support of gun control.

Don't fire until you see the white of their lies.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: verga on February 12, 2019, 02:32:19 PM
El Chapo got convicted. I hear he has some spare change we can use to fund the wall.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 02:33:41 PM

Except autocorrect changed ‘declarations’ to ‘decorations’ – LOL. I need to proofread better.

I like "decorations" for this...
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: txradioguy on February 12, 2019, 02:38:25 PM
Anyone else getting a déjà vu feeling? Time and again, he’s shown to be a terrible negotiator. The only thing that has prevented disaster is pushback, from the base and pundits. Last year, around the same time...


"I think my positions are going to be what the people in this room come up with.," he said. "I am very much reliant on the people in this room. I know most of the people on both sides; have a lot of respect for the people on both sides, and my -- what I approve is going to be very much reliant on what the people in this room come to me with. I have great confidence in the people. If they come to me with things that I'm not in love with, I'm going to do it, because I respect them."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/01/09/trump_promises_to_sign_an_answer_for_daca_that_will_be_a_bill_of_love.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/01/09/trump_promises_to_sign_an_answer_for_daca_that_will_be_a_bill_of_love.html)


I expect this legislation will get signed and we will have another ‘never again’ protest ceremony, as we did with the omnibus bill, last year.

Smells just like the "repeal" of Obamacare all over again.

Can't wait to see how this is explained away when he signs the bill.  The shutdown will have been for nothing.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: corbe on February 12, 2019, 02:39:48 PM
(https://thegospelside.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/onetrickpony.png?w=640)

Whatever is he gonna do now that his 'one trick pony' has been exposed as incapable?

   *If you think this is discombobulated my first two picks were an image of Trump on toast or a Ted Cruz with the campaign slogan of 'Hindsight is 2020', you can thank me later.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: txradioguy on February 12, 2019, 02:44:13 PM

Yes, you do have to worry about it. If the wall construction can be declared a national emergency, then gun control can be one, in the future, after a mass shooting. Similar declarations can be made for climate change, healthcare, etc.



It’s precisely what Sarah Sanders had said, prior to the December shutdown. Also, it’s what Mulvaney had been discussing, over the past couple days.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/18/sanders_the_president_has_asked_every_agency_to_find_money_to_pay_for_wall.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/12/18/sanders_the_president_has_asked_every_agency_to_find_money_to_pay_for_wall.html)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/429313-mulvaney-trump-can-move-money-around-to-get-wall-funding (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/429313-mulvaney-trump-can-move-money-around-to-get-wall-funding)

That National Emergency Law even has provisions in it to allow the government to take over sectors of industry.

The next Dem president simply has to declare a "national emergency" over gun violence and next thing you know...under this law the Feds are taking over the gun manufacturers and shutting them down.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 02:44:20 PM
Smells just like the "repeal" of Obamacare all over again.

Can't wait to see how this is explained away when he signs the bill.  The shutdown will have been for nothing.


You can expect it to be similar to the Obamacare saga. They will cite ‘progress’ as victory. The individual mandate is gone, so you should be ecstatic. Similarly, 55 miles of wall is the same thing as fulfilling the campaign promise. You just need to re-elect him in 2020, because it needs to be completed and this time, he really, really means it. Pinky promise.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 03:00:52 PM
That National Emergency Law even has provisions in it to allow the government to take over sectors of industry.

The next Dem president simply has to declare a "national emergency" over gun violence and next thing you know...under this law the Feds are taking over the gun manufacturers and shutting them down.


Just a few days ago…


David Hogg: Trump Should Declare Gun Violence as Emergency

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/897307?section=newsfront&keywords=david-hogg-trump-gun-control&year=2019&month=01&date=08&id=897307&oref=r.search.yahoo.com (https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/897307?section=newsfront&keywords=david-hogg-trump-gun-control&year=2019&month=01&date=08&id=897307&oref=r.search.yahoo.com)
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: txradioguy on February 12, 2019, 03:03:40 PM

Just a few days ago…


David Hogg: Trump Should Declare Gun Violence as Emergency

https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/897307?section=newsfront&keywords=david-hogg-trump-gun-control&year=2019&month=01&date=08&id=897307&oref=r.search.yahoo.com (https://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/article/897307?section=newsfront&keywords=david-hogg-trump-gun-control&year=2019&month=01&date=08&id=897307&oref=r.search.yahoo.com)

That little facist pig needs to just shut up and go away.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: The Ghost on February 12, 2019, 03:04:54 PM
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51783097_1031832233689478_2254434866315657216_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=c2740879d5a8c65c40459d69ae7ca9ff&oe=5CFBF545)
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Emjay on February 12, 2019, 03:11:46 PM
El Chapo finally convicted and will enjoy the hospitality of the state for the rest of his life.

He made an incredible amount of money and the state is seeking 18 billion dollars from his ill-gotten gains.

Ted Cruz just made the suggestion that this 18 billion be put towards the wall.

I think that's a grand idea and hope Ted pursues it seriously.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: mystery-ak on February 12, 2019, 03:26:08 PM
McConnell: Trump should sign funding deal
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/429644-mcconnell-trump-should-sign-funding-deal
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 03:33:57 PM
McConnell: Trump should sign funding deal
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/429644-mcconnell-trump-should-sign-funding-deal


Makes me wonder if he has told Thune to whip at least 20 votes.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 03:37:33 PM

Makes me wonder if he has told Thune to whip at least 20 votes.

Indeed it does.  It might be a bit tougher to Whip the necessary votes in the House.  McCarthy probably has that covered, too.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 04:04:16 PM
Indeed it does.  It might be a bit tougher to Whip the necessary votes in the House.  McCarthy probably has that covered, too.

He’d need to whip 55, which sounds like a lot, but there are 197, currently. That’s a little more than 25% to secure a veto-proof majority.


Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: skeeter on February 12, 2019, 04:15:48 PM

What if the Dem declare a National Emergency on the Climate? Then they will implement the Green New Deal via Executive Action.

Do you really think they're waiting for Trump to use the statute first?
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Emjay on February 12, 2019, 04:20:50 PM
Do you really think they're waiting for Trump to use the statute first?

As if !!  We cannot go around worrying about what the dems will do if they get in power.  Actually, we should worry about it, but the point is they will not hesitate to try and pass outrageously stupid and harmful legislation no matter what Trump does.

Trump should do what he thinks best.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 04:23:22 PM
Do you really think they're waiting for Trump to use the statute first?


After the way Reid’s use of the nuclear option for judicial appointments have come back to bite them? You better believe it.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on February 12, 2019, 07:02:29 PM
I haven't been able to find a copy of the actual "deal".  Has anyone else had any luck?
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Sanguine on February 12, 2019, 07:11:48 PM
I haven't been able to find a copy of the actual "deal".  Has anyone else had any luck?

No, but I'd like to see it.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 07:26:42 PM
I haven't been able to find a copy of the actual "deal".  Has anyone else had any luck?

Nope.  I'd be willing to bet we won't be allowed to see it until after the final votes on it, and then only if it's signed by the President.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: XenaLee on February 12, 2019, 07:49:15 PM

Yes, you do have to worry about it. If the wall construction can be declared a national emergency, then gun control can be one, in the future, after a mass shooting. Similar declarations can be made for climate change, healthcare, etc.

And what makes you think that... even if Trump does not declare a national emergency....that the rats won't still use 'national emergency' in the future, to implement any of their leftist schemes and agenda?  Nothing has stopped them before.  Look at how they got ObamaCare rammed down our throats against the will of most Americans.  Using that as an excuse for not declaring a NE now is unwise and illogical.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: XenaLee on February 12, 2019, 07:50:25 PM
Nope.  I'd be willing to bet we won't be allowed to see it until after the final votes on it, and then only if it's signed by the President.

Any promise of 'transparency' in DC is just another baldfaced LIE.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Sanguine on February 12, 2019, 07:53:07 PM

Yes, you do have to worry about it. If the wall construction can be declared a national emergency, then gun control can be one, in the future, after a mass shooting. Similar declarations can be made for climate change, healthcare, etc.
...

No, gun control would require an amendment to the Constitution; defending the border and our sovereignty is actually a legitimate function of the federal government.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 07:56:30 PM
No, gun control would require an amendment to the Constitution; defending the border and our sovereignty is actually a legitimate function of the federal government.


The 1934 Firearms Act and 1968 Gun Control Act didn’t. The assault weapons ban and magazine restrictions required no such amendment. Neither did the ban of bump stocks under this administration.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Sanguine on February 12, 2019, 07:59:52 PM

The 1934 Firearms Act and 1968 Gun Control Act didn’t. The assault weapons ban and magazine restrictions required no such amendment. Neither did the ban of bump stocks under this administration.

As you well know, that's not a decided issue. 
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 08:08:10 PM
As you well know, that's not a decided issue.


Which? They all went into effect. Parts of them still exist, with the NRA’s blessing. The assault weapons ban expired, but nearly got another chance, last year.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/02/28/president-trump-asks-dianne-feinstein-add-assault-weapons-ban-school-safety-bill/ (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/02/28/president-trump-asks-dianne-feinstein-add-assault-weapons-ban-school-safety-bill/)
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: roamer_1 on February 12, 2019, 08:14:06 PM
El Chapo got convicted. I hear he has some spare change we can use to fund the wall.

But that isn't how that works. Money is allocated. And it is the House that allocates. The money must be used for the purpose authorized. There is no getting around that.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 08:18:43 PM
Lets see how this plays out. Obviously the Pubs are worthless when negotiating a deal with the Rats. The next move is Trump's, does he agree to it or does he reject it?

If Trump rejects the latest agreement does he declare a national emergency, or use his executive authority to direct construction using available funds from various depts.?

I don't believe there will be another shut down. I think Trump signs a CR, rejects the "deal" and begins building using identified funds from various depts.

I thought he could use the funds and it would be legal.  Other presidents have done it and it would hold up to judicial challenge.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 08:18:50 PM
But that isn't how that works. Money is allocated. And it is the House that allocates. The money must be used for the purpose authorized. There is no getting around that.


You can’t tell Trump that. He still thinks the Chinese are paying the cost of tariffs on their goods sold here. You have to wonder if he can even balance a checkbook.




Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: corbe on February 12, 2019, 08:21:34 PM
    Is that checkbook thing a trick question?  @edpc
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: roamer_1 on February 12, 2019, 08:21:51 PM

You can’t tell Trump that. He still thinks the Chinese are paying the cost of tariffs on their goods sold here. You have to wonder if he can even balance a checkbook.

Well, to be fair, that's what you get with CEOs...

If you want someone who actually does business, look for a COO or CFO.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 08:39:26 PM
Nope.  I'd be willing to bet we won't be allowed to see it until after the final votes on it, and then only if it's signed by the President.
We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it. 
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 08:42:17 PM

You can’t tell Trump that. He still thinks the Chinese are paying the cost of tariffs on their goods sold here. You have to wonder if he can even balance a checkbook.
:silly:
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Fishrrman on February 12, 2019, 09:03:29 PM
I'm a Trump supporter, but if he thinks this "deal" is going to be enough... well, that's gonna cost him in 2020.

Then again, the writer of "The Art of the Deal" probably has a compulsion to achieve one, if only to boast that he made "a deal". But that alone don' make America great again.

Mr. Trump has to circumvent Congress on this, using the granted powers that Congress has already bestowed upon the president with existing law. That's the only way that substantial progress towards completion of the border barrier is going to be attained in time to have an impact on the 2020 elections.

The democrat-communists will try to stop him, but I think the courts will fall on his side (in those matters that will be raised before the courts), and I don't believe Congress will override his actions (takes 2/3 in BOTH houses).

This is one of those historical situations where the president has to break new ground, and step outside the boundaries of traditional restraint.

America is under invasion -- an invasion of civilians, perhaps, but an invasion nonetheless.

It's time to put a stop to it.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 09:08:22 PM
Then again, the writer of "The Art of the Deal" probably has a compulsion to achieve one, if only to boast that he made "a deal".


I don’t think Tony Schwartz really cares.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: libertybele on February 12, 2019, 09:12:37 PM
I'm a Trump supporter, but if he thinks this "deal" is going to be enough... well, that's gonna cost him in 2020.

Then again, the writer of "The Art of the Deal" probably has a compulsion to achieve one, if only to boast that he made "a deal". But that alone don' make America great again.

Mr. Trump has to circumvent Congress on this, using the granted powers that Congress has already bestowed upon the president with existing law. That's the only way that substantial progress towards completion of the border barrier is going to be attained in time to have an impact on the 2020 elections.

The democrat-communists will try to stop him, but I think the courts will fall on his side (in those matters that will be raised before the courts), and I don't believe Congress will override his actions (takes 2/3 in BOTH houses).

This is one of those historical situations where the president has to break new ground, and step outside the boundaries of traditional restraint.

America is under invasion -- an invasion of civilians, perhaps, but an invasion nonetheless.

It's time to put a stop to it.


But, will Trump put a stop to it?  That's what we're all waiting to see. 
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Sanguine on February 12, 2019, 09:22:17 PM
But, will Trump put a stop to it?  That's what we're all waiting to see.

Or, at a minimum, find and execute a work-around.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on February 12, 2019, 09:27:43 PM
But, will Trump put a stop to it?  That's what we're all waiting to see.

If you watched the clip from today, methinks the President has had enough of this bullshit with "negotiations" and he's going to take what they give him and move money around to fund the wall to at least the $5.7 billion mark.  @libertybele 

He's gonna build the damn wall if he has to do it himself.  He promised and beyond that .... he knows it will work to the security of the American people.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 09:34:41 PM
If you watched the clip from today, methinks the President has had enough of this bullshit with "negotiations" and he's going to take what they give him and move money around to fund the wall to at least the $5.7 billion mark.  @libertybele 

He's gonna build the damn wall if he has to do it himself.  He promised and beyond that .... he knows it will work to the security of the American people.


Sure he is. In fact, he's got enough to fund the whole project. Yet, we continue to see this drawn out spectacle. It's really not funny, anymore.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/12/trump-government-shutdown-1166882 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/12/trump-government-shutdown-1166882)


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Was just presented the concept and parameters of the Border Security Deal by hard working Senator Richard Shelby. Looking over all aspects knowing that this will be hooked up with lots of money from other sources....

5:47 PM · Feb 12, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone


....Will be getting almost $23 BILLION for Border Security. Regardless of Wall money, it is being built as we speak!

5:47 PM · Feb 12, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on February 12, 2019, 09:40:20 PM
No matter what happens, y'all know this won't hurt Trump, at least not with his core supporters.  They'll just rationalize it away and blame anybody but him.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 09:40:43 PM

Sure he is. In fact, he's got enough to fund the whole project. Yet, we continue to see this drawn out spectacle. It's really not funny, anymore.


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Was just presented the concept and parameters of the Border Security Deal by hard working Senator Richard Shelby. Looking over all aspects knowing that this will be hooked up with lots of money from other sources....

5:47 PM · Feb 12, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone


....Will be getting almost $23 BILLION for Border Security. Regardless of Wall money, it is being built as we speak!

5:47 PM · Feb 12, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone


I already have a big juicy hamburder.
I was only saying "I would gladly pay you tuesday..." because the hamburder is so delicious I want to build two hamburders.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 09:46:31 PM
No matter what happens, y'all know this won't hurt Trump, at least not with his core supporters.  They'll just rationalize it away and blame anybody but him.


I can't wait to see how Hannity squares it, after saying 'garbage compromise' that will have to be explained by Republicans who support it.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: libertybele on February 12, 2019, 09:48:24 PM
If you watched the clip from today, methinks the President has had enough of this bullshit with "negotiations" and he's going to take what they give him and move money around to fund the wall to at least the $5.7 billion mark.  @libertybele 

He's gonna build the damn wall if he has to do it himself.  He promised and beyond that .... he knows it will work to the security of the American people.

Saw the videos of new wall in your other posts.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 12, 2019, 10:32:56 PM
Sounds like resignation and realization the deal will pass.


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

I want to thank all Republicans for the work you have done in dealing with the Radical Left on Border Security. Not an easy task, but the Wall is being built and will be a great achievement and contributor toward life and safety within our Country!

9:23 PM · Feb 12, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 10:44:17 PM
Sounds like resignation and realization the deal will pass.


Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

I want to thank all Republicans for the work you have done in dealing with the Radical Left on Border Security. Not an easy task, but the Wall is being built and will be a great achievement and contributor toward life and safety within our Country!

9:23 PM · Feb 12, 2019 · Twitter for iPhone


Give it a day....
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: QueenCatofAragon on February 12, 2019, 10:50:55 PM

I can't wait to see how Hannity squares it, after saying 'garbage compromise' that will have to be explained by Republicans who support it.

@edpc

Sean will pivot like he never mentioned it before.  He knows it's all theatre, anyway.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DesywOFVQAAJBTg.jpg)
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Emjay on February 12, 2019, 11:41:44 PM
It's really cute how the NTers among us are having so much fun that the democrats are hurting the country. 

Americans are hurt; we'll get no wall; but Trump didn't get his way so let's chortle it up.

Sad.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: corbe on February 12, 2019, 11:50:58 PM
    Has it ever occurred to you @Emjay that when a person is really stressed and disappointed in the outcome of his/her expectations he/she may make silly jokes about something really, really serious?
    I didn't think you'd buy it but I thought I might throw it out there anyway to see if it sticks so I can use it later.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 11:56:53 PM
It's really cute how the NTers among us are having so much fun that the democrats are hurting the country. 
I can't speak for other NTs but hurting the country don't enter into it.  That was gonna happen no matter who won 2016...it's your tears I use to lubricate my fist for my circle of friends.

Now say it again...but slowly...and please describe what you are wearing.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: edpc on February 13, 2019, 02:16:52 AM
Sean will pivot like he never mentioned it before.


No matter what, I fully expect Don and Sean to be spooning with some Quarter Pounders and Shari’s Berries on Thursday.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 02:37:43 AM
Here it comes Trumpsters...

Another huge victory by President Trump....

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1095469447933059073


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

Was just presented the concept and parameters of the Border Security Deal by hard working Senator Richard Shelby. Looking over all aspects knowing that this will be hooked up with lots of money from other sources....
3:47 PM - 12 Feb 2019

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1095469449052868610


Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

....Will be getting almost $23 BILLION for Border Security. Regardless of Wall money, it is being built as we speak!
3:47 PM - 12 Feb 2019

Congratulations the wall was built.  You won.  The shutdown wasn't for nuthin'  Yippee!
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Smokin Joe on February 13, 2019, 02:44:41 AM
That National Emergency Law even has provisions in it to allow the government to take over sectors of industry.

The next Dem president simply has to declare a "national emergency" over gun violence and next thing you know...under this law the Feds are taking over the gun manufacturers and shutting them down.
Not to mention chaining the doors shut at every sporting goods store...
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: Smokin Joe on February 13, 2019, 02:51:27 AM
As if !!  We cannot go around worrying about what the dems will do if they get in power.  Actually, we should worry about it, but the point is they will not hesitate to try and pass outrageously stupid and harmful legislation no matter what Trump does.

Trump should do what he thinks best.
No, @Emjay , he should uphold his oath and go by the Constitution.  Power, once usurped, is often only bought back in blood.

There is no way he should use that power for anything but a clear National Emergency, and unfortunately, this can be played down by the media enough that the established precedent could be used by the next Democrat POTUS to clear off the Communists' shopping list of crazy crap that will spell the end of this Republic.

Damned straight we need to worry about what the next Democrat will do, and don't hand them the precedent to do it with.

All future 'emergencies' can be compared to this crisis, and if Trump DOESN'T use that power for this, then a future POTUS can be held to task for lesser issues, and even denied that power.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: libertybele on February 13, 2019, 05:06:08 PM
No, @Emjay , he should uphold his oath and go by the Constitution.  Power, once usurped, is often only bought back in blood.

There is no way he should use that power for anything but a clear National Emergency, and unfortunately, this can be played down by the media enough that the established precedent could be used by the next Democrat POTUS to clear off the Communists' shopping list of crazy crap that will spell the end of this Republic.

Damned straight we need to worry about what the next Democrat will do, and don't hand them the precedent to do it with.

All future 'emergencies' can be compared to this crisis, and if Trump DOESN'T use that power for this, then a future POTUS can be held to task for lesser issues, and even denied that power.

Perhaps, I'm misinterpreting what you'r estating, but mobs of migrants coming across our borders by the thousands, an opioid epidemic in this country because of the drugs coming across this border and kids being raped to get to the border (sometimes 30 times a day or more) is an EMERGENCY!!!

Bammy, Clinton, 'W', Reagan and Carter ALL declared national emergencies.  So ... it isn't like Trump will be the first president that has found it as a necessity to do so.

He tried going through Congress, there are other ways around the obstruction, but I believe this President needs to do what is necessary to protect this country.  That IS his duty.
Title: Re: Trump: 'Can't say I'm happy' with border security deal
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 05:11:08 PM
Not to mention chaining the doors shut at every sporting goods store...

Except in Montana.