The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 01:25:06 PM

Title: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 01:25:06 PM
At the midpoint of Donald Trump's presidency, those in his party who seemingly should be supporting him are as critical as ever.  Now it's the issue of his character.
….
Tweets?  It's Trump's way of bypassing a hostile media establishment.  Looking at Twitter at the time of this writing, the Trump hostility is obvious.  I see one tweet from CNN: "Former President Barack Obama lists his favorite books, songs and movies of 2018."

CEOs delegate authority and responsibility.  It's not at all unusual for the CEO not to personally deliver the pink slip, and typically, by the time it happens, it's no surprise to the person being let go.  Big deal.

Praise for dictators?  I'm reminded of the old saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  These foreign leaders, whether Vladimir Putin or Kim Jung-un, have huge egos.  What good does insulting them on the world stage do to further negotiations?  A better strategy is to be nice to them publicly to let them save face at home while getting tough behind closed doors.  Common sense.  Look at the results rather than the appearance.

Insults for allies? Like NATO allies needing to be shamed into paying their fair share, a term the left loves, for NATO, honoring their agreements?  Past presidents have raised the issue and let it go.  Trump is calling them on it.  Or challenging Angela Merkel on her side deal for natural gas with Russia, in violation of NATO.  It's called accountability.

Trump's history of womanizing as a character flaw?  Sure, but that blanket covers many past presidents.  At least for Trump, it was decades ago, not while he was president, something that cannot be said for many Oval Office occupants.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/01/trump_and_the_character_question.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/01/trump_and_the_character_question.html)
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: ABX on January 07, 2019, 01:28:24 PM
Character matters, leadership descends from character.* - Rush Limbaugh

*subject to change if someone is Rush's golfing buddy or his mouth gets him good ratings.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 01:30:41 PM
Character matters, leadership descends from character.* - Rush Limbaugh

*subject to change if someone is Rush's golfing buddy or his mouth gets him good ratings.

I am not saying that character does not matter and the American Thinker piece is not implying that either.

The article is simply clarifying some of the things Trump is attacked for and explaining why they do not reflect on his character as President.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: ABX on January 07, 2019, 01:33:17 PM
I am not saying that character does not matter and the American Thinker piece is not implying that either.

The article is simply clarifying some of the things Trump is attacked for and explaining why they do not reflect on his character as President.

But in many ways they do. So much of his presidency is making people believe he is doing something or believe in what he does even if it goes against their values. You even have some on the right cheering or making excuses for his attacks on the 2nd Amendment and 4th Amendment in regards to gun control (just as an example).

A proper character would mean he would do what is right (follow the Constitution as is his oath) instead of manipulate people into changing their values to meet him.  Character and values have been re-defined as what he does, not the fundamental truth of the value.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM
But in many ways they do. So much of his presidency is making people believe he is doing something or believe in what he does even if it goes against their values. You even have some on the right cheering or making excuses for his attacks on the 2nd Amendment and 4th Amendment in regards to gun control (just as an example).

A proper character would mean he would do what is right (follow the Constitution as is his oath) instead of manipulate people into changing their values to meet him.  Character and values have been re-defined as what he does, not the fundamental truth of the value.

Back when I hated Trump, I could find a lot to criticize.  I don't recall any Trump attacks on the 2nd or 4th Amendment ... perhaps on the way some people abuse those amendments?
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 01:50:10 PM
But in many ways they do. So much of his presidency is making people believe he is doing something or believe in what he does even if it goes against their values. You even have some on the right cheering or making excuses for his attacks on the 2nd Amendment and 4th Amendment in regards to gun control (just as an example).

A proper character would mean he would do what is right (follow the Constitution as is his oath) instead of manipulate people into changing their values to meet him.  Character and values have been re-defined as what he does, not the fundamental truth of the value.

Okay.  Here is what Trump had to say about the 2nd amendment:

He tweeted: “THE SECOND AMENDMENT WILL NEVER BE REPEALED! As much as Democrats would like to see this happen, and despite the words yesterday of former Supreme Court Justice Stevens, NO WAY. We need more Republicans in 2018 and must ALWAYS hold the Supreme Court!”
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: ABX on January 07, 2019, 01:54:28 PM
Okay.  Here is what Trump had to say about the 2nd amendment:

He tweeted: “THE SECOND AMENDMENT WILL NEVER BE REPEALED! As much as Democrats would like to see this happen, and despite the words yesterday of former Supreme Court Justice Stevens, NO WAY. We need more Republicans in 2018 and must ALWAYS hold the Supreme Court!”

That's what he said, but what he has done includes direct the Department of Justice to 'confiscate first and go after due process later' (4th Amendment violation) and order the ATF to ban bump stocks (2nd Amendment violation).

There are many things he says but does the exact opposite.

Remember, this is a person who brags about how good of a liar he is and that he will lie to your face to close a deal in The Art of the Deal.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: libertybele on January 07, 2019, 02:32:00 PM
Character matters, leadership descends from character.* - Rush Limbaugh

*subject to change if someone is Rush's golfing buddy or his mouth gets him good ratings.

Yes, character does matter, but obviously 63 million people liked his character enough to vote for him, electing him as President.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: ABX on January 07, 2019, 02:38:28 PM
Yes, character does matter, but obviously 63 million people liked his character enough to vote for him, electing him as President.

Popularity doesn't equal character.

Otherwise, Kanye West and Justin Bieber would be the standard bearer of good character.  Hell, Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99.9% of the vote.

Character is more often than not, doing what is right even when it isn't popular.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Restored on January 07, 2019, 02:43:38 PM
He's certainly a character.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: libertybele on January 07, 2019, 02:45:47 PM
Popularity doesn't equal character.

Otherwise, Kanye West and Justin Bieber would be the standard bearer of good character.  Hell, Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99.9% of the vote.

Character is more often than not, doing what is right even when it isn't popular.

Then Trump by your definition exemplifies character; the wall may not be popular with the DEMS but it is very much needed.  Like his character or not, President Trump is what is standing between our sovereignty and the liberal leftist marxists who would love nothing more than open borders, mass migration and amnesty.

I don't consider myself a Trumpster nor on the Trump train, but he deserves some credit here.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 02:47:23 PM
Popularity doesn't equal character.

Otherwise, Kanye West and Justin Bieber would be the standard bearer of good character.  Hell, Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99.9% of the vote.

Character is more often than not, doing what is right even when it isn't popular.

Trump was popular with the people because he spoke to their values and he has continued to support the values he spoke for as a candidate.

You can dismiss popularity all you want but Trump was popular with the people and he still is.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 02:49:36 PM
Then Trump by your definition exemplifies character; the wall may not be popular with the DEMS but it is very much needed.  Like his character or not, President Trump is what is standing between our sovereignty and the liberal leftist marxists who would love nothing more than open borders, mass migration and amnesty.

I don't consider myself a Trumpster nor on the Trump train, but he deserves some credit here.

No matter how you think of yourself, any support you show for anything Trump will be characterized as you being a Trumpster or some kind of Orange person.

It is basically the main, and sometimes only, tool of the NTers on this forum.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: aligncare on January 07, 2019, 03:00:05 PM
I am not saying that character does not matter and the American Thinker piece is not implying that either.

The article is simply clarifying some of the things Trump is attacked for and explaining why they do not reflect on his character as President.

Dennis Prager is brilliant on this topic and comes to the same conclusions as this author and uses cogent examples of past presidents with character and morality flaws who have done the right thing for the country.

Conversely, he cites presidents who were considered by all to be virtuous individuals but whose actions in office did not help the American people.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Jazzhead on January 07, 2019, 03:02:17 PM
Yes, character does matter, but obviously 63 million people liked his character enough to vote for him, electing him as President.

Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: aligncare on January 07, 2019, 03:11:21 PM
He's certainly a character.

The most talked about man in the world. He has occupied more press and air time globally than any figure in recent history.

It takes someone with a strong character to sustain that level of popular interest, good and bad, for as long as Trump has. In a related example, Trump’s name has been mentioned countless times as an example of a successful individual on television shows and in popular media for at least 35 years.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: libertybele on January 07, 2019, 03:18:10 PM
No matter how you think of yourself, any support you show for anything Trump will be characterized as you being a Trumpster or some kind of Orange person.

It is basically the main, and sometimes only, tool of the NTers on this forum.

OK ... then paint the forum Orange for heaven's sake and I'd love to see a bright orange wall!

I apologize to ALL those whom I've called a Trumpster!!  Certainly doesn't mean I give him a free pass on everything it only means that anyone with half a brain would see that IF we have any chance of saving this country from continued invasion and losing our sovereignty its standing behind Trump when he's trying to take this country in that same direction.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: libertybele on January 07, 2019, 03:22:25 PM
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   

I am not exhausted of President Trump I am exhausted of the liberal lefts lies and deceit; Russian collusion ring a bell?  I'm tired of those in his own party who vote Republican in name only and fail to stand with this President.  It's overwhelming!  IF President Trump gives us a wall, curbs illegal immigration and preserves the 2A, good luck finding anyone who could beat him.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: DCPatriot on January 07, 2019, 03:29:16 PM
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   

Hmmmm....  interesting take, @Jazzhead

But you fail to take into account, America's love affair with an underdog.

He could announce tomorrow night his intention to run for reelection in 2020 as an Independent.

And I'll let you choose the other two candidates. 

Doesn't matter.  Donald Trump wins running away.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Frank Cannon on January 07, 2019, 03:45:22 PM
We had this stupid debate in 1996 and no one gave a shit. Why would it be any different 22 years later.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: DCPatriot on January 07, 2019, 03:46:14 PM
http://www.facebook.com/theunityspot/videos/1874226046032824/UzpfSTE0MTkwNjM2NTY6MTAyMTg3NTQ2MjQxNjI5MTE/ (http://www.facebook.com/theunityspot/videos/1874226046032824/UzpfSTE0MTkwNjM2NTY6MTAyMTg3NTQ2MjQxNjI5MTE/)



WARNING!!!!!    NSFW!!

NSFML!!


@Amb. Frank Cannon

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Frank Cannon on January 07, 2019, 03:47:34 PM
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   

Coming from the dude who is the only Kasich cheerleader here. Give me a break.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Absalom on January 07, 2019, 04:00:55 PM
Whether or not Trump's Character flaws, either imagined or real,
will be fatal to his presidency is arguable.
Yet it should be apparent that his character weaknesses render
him unable to assess character in others.
The turmoil in his Cabinet is mute testament to that cold reality.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: libertybele on January 07, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Coming from the dude who is the only Kasich cheerleader here. Give me a break.

 888high58888
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Night Hides Not on January 07, 2019, 04:46:44 PM
Trump was popular with the people because he spoke to their values and he has continued to support the values he spoke for as a candidate.

You can dismiss popularity all you want but Trump was popular with the people and he still is.


Trump remains popular with his base, roughly 1/3 of those who voted in 2016. He picked up another 12-15% who were anti-Hillary. Hillary won't be on the ballot in 2020, so who knows where that 12-15% will go?


If Trump caves on the wall, the really hard core Trump supporters will find excuses for Trump, but I think half of his base will be really upset.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 05:09:59 PM
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   

That would be a death wish, @Jazzhead   Trump is still popular enough to win in 2020, particularly in view of the fact that the dems have no viable candidate.

I would vote for Trump in 2020 and I didn't vote for him in 2016.  He has proved himself to me.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
OK ... then paint the forum Orange for heaven's sake and I'd love to see a bright orange wall!

I apologize to ALL those whom I've called a Trumpster!!  Certainly doesn't mean I give him a free pass on everything it only means that anyone with half a brain would see that IF we have any chance of saving this country from continued invasion and losing our sovereignty its standing behind Trump when he's trying to take this country in that same direction.

Great post @libertybele   Thank you.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on January 07, 2019, 05:29:56 PM
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   

This is probably true of the late deciders.  But the tens of thousands of voters who attended rally after rally after rally in city after city after city, including behind the blue wall, for 18 straight months were there because they wanted this man to be President.   They really, really wanted this man to be President.  They are with him still.   

Be careful not to mistake what you see in the mirror with the base at large. 
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: montanajoe on January 07, 2019, 05:48:33 PM
Trump supporters attempting to redefine the meaning of the word character sounds a lot like Clinton...."it depends on what the meaning of the word is is..." :shrug:
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: corbe on January 07, 2019, 05:50:32 PM
   I do like your Thread Post selection, @Emjay

   (https://media.giphy.com/media/ZZiLDJ98R2GOY/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: roamer_1 on January 07, 2019, 05:50:37 PM
Trump supporters attempting to redefine the meaning of the word character sounds a lot like Clinton...."it depends on what the meaning of the word is is..." :shrug:

That's right.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: austingirl on January 07, 2019, 05:53:31 PM
Yes, character does matter, but obviously 63 million people liked his character enough to vote for him, electing him as President.
Trump wasn't elected for his character. He was a womanizing playboy that the media loved when he was a democrat. He was elected to stir the pot in corrupt hidebound DC and to protect our border.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: DCPatriot on January 07, 2019, 05:58:23 PM
Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J31uAcmpteU#)




Anybody ever see this movie??    :shrug:

Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on January 07, 2019, 06:02:42 PM
Trump supporters attempting to redefine the meaning of the word character sounds a lot like Clinton...."it depends on what the meaning of the word is is..." :shrug:

Nope.  We knew the man we were supporting.  We judge him on how he treats us.  So far, he's doing great.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: DCPatriot on January 07, 2019, 06:05:51 PM
Nope.  We knew the man we were supporting.  We judge him on how he treats us.  So far, he's doing great.

Based upon my formal education and life experience, Donald Trump's leadership is second to none. 

The country should just STFU and say 'Thank you, sir,...I'll have another!"
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Bigun on January 07, 2019, 06:12:01 PM
Trump wasn't elected for his character. He was a womanizing playboy that the media loved when he was a democrat. He was elected to stir the pot in corrupt hidebound DC and to protect our border.

Based on what I knew at the time, I simply could not bring myself to vote for Mr. Trump in 2016 but if he continues to perform his official duties as he has to date I surely will vote for him in 2020 if he still wants the job.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 10:30:58 PM
Trump wasn't elected for his character. He was a womanizing playboy that the media loved when he was a democrat. He was elected to stir the pot in corrupt hidebound DC and to protect our border.

True, but as the article points out, "Trump's history of womanizing as a character flaw?  Sure, but that blanket covers many past presidents.  At least for Trump, it was decades ago, not while he was president, something that cannot be said for many Oval Office occupants"
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 10:34:12 PM
Based on what I knew at the time, I simply could not bring myself to vote for Mr. Trump in 2016 but if he continues to perform his official duties as he has to date I surely will vote for him in 2020 if he still wants the job.

I agree @Bigun   I had just moved to Hawaii in 2016 and couldn't vote but not sure how I would have voted, but I would definitely vote Trump in 2020.  I think you are I are fairly typical of the people Trump has converted through his good performance as President so far.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 07, 2019, 10:35:19 PM
   I do like your Thread Post selection, @Emjay

   (https://media.giphy.com/media/ZZiLDJ98R2GOY/giphy.gif)

Can you say 'snide', @corbe
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Jazzhead on January 08, 2019, 09:50:43 AM
This is probably true of the late deciders.  But the tens of thousands of voters who attended rally after rally after rally in city after city after city, including behind the blue wall, for 18 straight months were there because they wanted this man to be President.   They really, really wanted this man to be President.  They are with him still.   

Be careful not to mistake what you see in the mirror with the base at large.

Trump's base is probably about a third of the electorate, although not, of course, evenly distributed throughout the country.   But that's not enough to win the 2020 election.   Trump needs to get back the 15-25% of the electorate that voted for him with noses clenched because they deemed Hillary worse.  Now the Dems will no doubt work hard to nominate a candidate as god-awful as Hillary,  but he/she will likely be a new face and will have the combined power of the mainstream media behind him/her.   

What has Trump done in the last two years to expand his appeal beyond his base?   The polls, and this year's midterms,  suggest he's made little or no headway.  Indeed,  Trump himself just burrows deeper and deeper into the bosom of his base; he's not even trying anymore to address the exhaustion of the rest of us.

 I just see a disaster looming.   
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: ABX on January 08, 2019, 09:56:59 AM
True, but as the article points out, "Trump's history of womanizing as a character flaw?  Sure, but that blanket covers many past presidents.  At least for Trump, it was decades ago, not while he was president, something that cannot be said for many Oval Office occupants"

You don't know it was 'decades ago and not while he was President'. Clinton's initial accusations were 'decades ago' and we didn't find out about his interns until 6 years in.  You can't teach a horny old dog new tricks.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: austingirl on January 08, 2019, 10:09:26 AM
You don't know it was 'decades ago and not while he was President'. Clinton's initial accusations were 'decades ago' and we didn't find out about his interns until 6 years in.  You can't teach a horny old dog new tricks.

With the microscope Trump is under and the leaks from the WH, it is very likely that he is faithful. After all the fake news stories, nothing current in this vein has even been speculated. Except by you.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: aligncare on January 08, 2019, 10:11:22 AM
You don't know it was 'decades ago and not while he was President'. Clinton's initial accusations were 'decades ago' and we didn't find out about his interns until 6 years in.  You can't teach a horny old dog new tricks.

Donald Trump is married to one of the sexiest women in the world. Bill Clinton was (laughably) married to Hillary Clinton.

Besides that obvious difference, when would Donald Trump possibly have the time to mess around with other women? He’s tweeting or eating at 2:00 AM.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: ABX on January 08, 2019, 10:13:26 AM
Bookmark
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: skeeter on January 08, 2019, 10:15:00 AM
Trump's base is probably about a third of the electorate, although not, of course, evenly distributed throughout the country.   But that's not enough to win the 2020 election.   Trump needs to get back the 15-25% of the electorate that voted for him with noses clenched because they deemed Hillary worse.  Now the Dems will no doubt work hard to nominate a candidate as god-awful as Hillary,  but he/she will likely be a new face and will have the combined power of the mainstream media behind him/her.   

What has Trump done in the last two years to expand his appeal beyond his base?   The polls, and this year's midterms,  suggest he's made little or no headway.  Indeed,  Trump himself just burrows deeper and deeper into the bosom of his base; he's not even trying anymore to address the exhaustion of the rest of us.

 I just see a disaster looming.   

Trump's popularity among the GOP rank and file is slightly higher than Bush's was immediately following 9/11. The problem is that thanks to the super polarized media he's hated to the same degree by the left.

There is no other way for him to handle himself other than to forge ahead on his current path and hope, like his agenda or not, Americans credit him for keeping/attempting to keep his promises, which everyone would have to acknowledge is an rare thing in DC.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 08, 2019, 10:20:54 AM
You don't know it was 'decades ago and not while he was President'. Clinton's initial accusations were 'decades ago' and we didn't find out about his interns until 6 years in.  You can't teach a horny old dog new tricks.

We do know @ABX   You can believe what you want but Trump's life has been under a microscope for many years before he entered politics.  With the media panting for every crumb of a scandal they can find about Trump, you can be sure all the greedy little scandal seekers would have found something.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Jazzhead on January 08, 2019, 11:09:48 AM
Trump's popularity among the GOP rank and file is slightly higher than Bush's was immediately following 9/11. The problem is that thanks to the super polarized media he's hated to the same degree by the left.

There is no other way for him to handle himself other than to forge ahead on his current path and hope, like his agenda or not, Americans credit him for keeping/attempting to keep his promises, which everyone would have to acknowledge is an rare thing in DC.

His popularity among Republicans in polls is a function of party loyalty/solidarity, in the current climate where (as you point out), his opponents hate him to an irrational degree.  Put it this way - I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and I won't support him for the nomination in 2020,  but if a pollster asked me if I supported the President and the job he's doing I'd respond hell yes.    The tendency to circle wagons is par for the course for partisans on both sides,  especially when it's clear the other side seeks not to debate but to destroy.

But this is a forum of Republicans/conservatives.   I can speak my mind here.  Trump's policies I largely agree with; the manner in which he conducts himself and the Presidency I do not.  Of course he can handle himself differently - he chooses not to.   I see him making no effort to grow his base beyond those he eggs on at his rallies.   And that's just not enough to win re-election.  As I've stated before,  I want to see someone - Nikki Haley? - challenge him from the standpoint of finishing the job Trump has started - to continue his pro-growth, pro-America policies but who can, by acting like a traditional and dignified  leader, lance the boil of hate that infects this nation.   
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 08, 2019, 11:37:34 AM
His popularity among Republicans in polls is a function of party loyalty/solidarity, in the current climate where (as you point out), his opponents hate him to an irrational degree.  Put it this way - I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and I won't support him for the nomination in 2020,  but if a pollster asked me if I supported the President and the job he's doing I'd respond hell yes.    The tendency to circle wagons is par for the course for partisans on both sides,  especially when it's clear the other side seeks not to debate but to destroy.

But this is a forum of Republicans/conservatives.   I can speak my mind here.  Trump's policies I largely agree with; the manner in which he conducts himself and the Presidency I do not.  Of course he can handle himself differently - he chooses not to.   I see him making no effort to grow his base beyond those he eggs on at his rallies.   And that's just not enough to win re-election.  As I've stated before,  I want to see someone - Nikki Haley? - challenge him from the standpoint of finishing the job Trump has started - to continue his pro-growth, pro-America policies but who can, by acting like a traditional and dignified  leader, lance the boil of hate that infects this nation.

I don't usually respond to your inane rants @Jazzhead but actions speak louder than words.  You would rather have a dignified leader than a man of his word who has continued to follow up on the promises of his campaign.

That is just insanity.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Jazzhead on January 08, 2019, 12:32:02 PM
I don't usually respond to your inane rants @Jazzhead but actions speak louder than words.  You would rather have a dignified leader than a man of his word who has continued to follow up on the promises of his campaign.

That is just insanity.

Inane, huh, @Emjay?   *****rollingeyes*****    Why not insist on someone who's both a dignified leader and a man of his word?  You've presented a false choice unless, of course, character and traditional notions of leadership don't matter to you.   

I'm glad you support the President.   I do as well, in the current crisis.   But I can also think dynamically, and understand the man's deeply flawed.   The task is preserve the continuing relevance of conservatism after 2020.    Trump assembled a unique and winning coalition in 2016,  but that was yesterday.   He's done nothing to appeal to those outside the third of his electorate that he attracts to his rallies with his tub-thumping nationalism.   The midterms proved his coalition is no longer there, especially in the Midwest that proved to be his margin of victory.     And in 2020, the stakes will be even higher, because at least Hillary, a venal criminal to be sure, wasn't a socialist.    We can't afford to lose this one.   Trump must be challenged for the nomination.   
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: skeeter on January 08, 2019, 12:38:36 PM
His popularity among Republicans in polls is a function of party loyalty/solidarity, in the current climate where (as you point out), his opponents hate him to an irrational degree.  Put it this way - I didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and I won't support him for the nomination in 2020,  but if a pollster asked me if I supported the President and the job he's doing I'd respond hell yes.    The tendency to circle wagons is par for the course for partisans on both sides,  especially when it's clear the other side seeks not to debate but to destroy.

But this is a forum of Republicans/conservatives.   I can speak my mind here.  Trump's policies I largely agree with; the manner in which he conducts himself and the Presidency I do not.  Of course he can handle himself differently - he chooses not to.   I see him making no effort to grow his base beyond those he eggs on at his rallies.   And that's just not enough to win re-election.  As I've stated before,  I want to see someone - Nikki Haley? - challenge him from the standpoint of finishing the job Trump has started - to continue his pro-growth, pro-America policies but who can, by acting like a traditional and dignified  leader, lance the boil of hate that infects this nation.

I would rather have a president with integrity - someone who endeavors to keep his word on his bedrock issues relative to others who've held the office recently - than someone with a nice straight crease in his slacks. I suspect most voters will agree.

BTW I'm NOT interested in the least in mollifying the hard left. They are lost and God forbid they have a seat at the table.

Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Jazzhead on January 08, 2019, 12:51:41 PM
I would rather have a president with integrity - someone who endeavors to keep his word on his bedrock issues relative to others who've held the office recently - than someone with a nice straight crease in his slacks. I suspect most voters will agree.

BTW I'm NOT interested in the least in mollifying the hard left. They are lost and God forbid they have a seat at the table.

Best way to "mollify the hard left" is to re-nominate a flawed candidate who will lose to an out-and-out socialist.    That's what's at stake here.   
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: austingirl on January 08, 2019, 12:54:31 PM


BTW I'm NOT interested in the least in mollifying the hard left. They are lost and God forbid they have a seat at the table.

How do you mollify hard-core communists? You can't. What I cannot understand is why those who idolize JFK cannot see what has happened to their party.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Emjay on January 08, 2019, 01:25:46 PM
Inane, huh, @Emjay?   *****rollingeyes*****    Why not insist on someone who's both a dignified leader and a man of his word?  You've presented a false choice unless, of course, character and traditional notions of leadership don't matter to you.   

I'm glad you support the President.   I do as well, in the current crisis.   But I can also think dynamically, and understand the man's deeply flawed.   The task is preserve the continuing relevance of conservatism after 2020.    Trump assembled a unique and winning coalition in 2016,  but that was yesterday.   He's done nothing to appeal to those outside the third of his electorate that he attracts to his rallies with his tub-thumping nationalism.   The midterms proved his coalition is no longer there, especially in the Midwest that proved to be his margin of victory.     And in 2020, the stakes will be even higher, because at least Hillary, a venal criminal to be sure, wasn't a socialist.    We can't afford to lose this one.   Trump must be challenged for the nomination.   

You are arguing with yourself and I don't choose to participate.
Title: Re: Trump and the Character Question
Post by: Jazzhead on January 08, 2019, 01:29:10 PM
You are arguing with yourself and I don't choose to participate.

Suit yourself.  Thanks for the bump.