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State Chapters => Texas => Topic started by: Elderberry on November 03, 2018, 07:14:00 AM

Title: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Elderberry on November 03, 2018, 07:14:00 AM
Houston Chronicle by  Jeremy Wallace Nov. 2, 2018

U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz’s closing message to voters is as much about Beto O’Rourke as it is about his own campaign.

While most Republicans running for statewide office in Texas this year largely avoid talking about their Democratic opponents, Cruz has been unyielding in his final stump speeches in attacking O’Rourke’s positions on everything from climate change and immigration to health care and the economy.

“At this stage of the campaign, in the closing days, we’re showing a simple and straightforward contrast,” Cruz said in an interview in Laredo.

O’Rourke, on the other hand, rarely mentions Cruz by name during his rallies. In Waco on Wednesday, O’Rourke delivered a more than 20-minute speech and never said Cruz’s name. But in Midland a day earlier, Cruz mentioned O’Rourke by name 20 times in a 29-minute speech.

“There is no race in the country that presents a starker divide than this U.S. Senate race here in the state of Texas,” Cruz told the crowd in Midland, a line he repeated in other stops.

The focus on O’Rourke comes as public polling shows the race, one of the most-watched in the nation, is getting closer. Some polls have it as close as 3 percentage points, while others have the margin as wide as 10 percentage points. Combined, the two candidates have raised over $110 million — a new national record for a general election battle for a U.S. Senate seat. O’Rourke has raised more than $70 million.

Cruz said he is not responding to any polling, just trying to make his case clearly to voters as he seeks another 6-year term in office. Cruz said he is convinced that on almost every policy position, O’Rourke is “out of step with most Texans” and he’s making sure voters know the differences as they head to the polls.

Cruz is emphasizing their positions on four key issues:

- On the Trump Tax cuts, Cruz said he helped get the bill passed, whereas O’Rourke voted against it.

- On the Paris Climate Change Agreement aimed at reducing pollution, Cruz said he encouraged the President to back out of the deal because it would harm American manufacturing and energy companies. O’Rourke supported keeping the U.S. in the agreement.

More: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/Ted-Cruz-closes-campaign-with-a-flurry-of-attacks-13359187.php (https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/politics/texas/article/Ted-Cruz-closes-campaign-with-a-flurry-of-attacks-13359187.php)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 03, 2018, 11:33:28 AM
Robert Francis Twitchy O'Rourke- out of step with Texas.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 03, 2018, 11:48:04 AM
Robert Francis Twitchy O'Rourke- out of step with Texas.

LMAO!   Perfect!
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: catfish1957 on November 03, 2018, 12:00:08 PM

Wish some last minute campaign ads would surface showing Beto (via undercover)  recently being caught funding the Honduran Caravan (Invasion) with campaign finance money.

In fact he has admitted to it, and calls it charity (sham).
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
that was too close last night.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 11:02:05 AM
that was too close last night.

Way too close. 

Here's a map showing county by county.  And Lupe Valdez beat out Abbott in once-deep-red Hays County!


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/results?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/results?ocid=spartanntp)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 12:26:09 PM
Williamson County voted for Twitchy? Good God. My county, Bandera, was 80-20 for Cruz. I am astonished that there are 20% here that want socialism.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 12:56:20 PM
Way too close. 

Here's a map showing county by county.  And Lupe Valdez beat out Abbott in once-deep-red Hays County!


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/results?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/results?ocid=spartanntp)
That corridor from Austin to San Antonio is looking more like the San Francisco area than Texas.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 02:33:24 PM
Dana Loesch just talked extensively about Cruz's win, and I'm going to drop some points here and see what you all think. 

She said that Cruz's victory was far too close, and that people aren't taking Texas seriously---iow, believing it could never go Dem.  She said they used to say the same about California and, I think, Colorado.

Dana has talked with a bunch of political strategists who were involved with the race, and she said they're extremely alarmed.  The Dem party didn't spend all of those millions to elect Beto---it was to test the waters.  Now they know they can get close and maybe even win.  They've been moving people into Texas, to take up residence there.  Cruz had 18 people on staff---Beto had over 800.  Now those 800 will remain there and keep up their activism.

She believes everyone, no matter what state they're from, should be concerned about Texas and about keeping it red.  According to her, Cruz won the most conservative county in the state by only 3000 votes.

If anyone is interested, I can find the audio tomorrow and post it.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: skeeter on November 07, 2018, 02:40:13 PM
Dana Loesch just talked extensively about Cruz's win, and I'm going to drop some points here and see what you all think. 

She said that Cruz's victory was far too close, and that people aren't taking Texas seriously---iow, believing it could never go Dem.  She said they used to say the same about California and, I think, Colorado.

Dana has talked with a bunch of political strategists who were involved with the race, and she said they're extremely alarmed.  The Dem party didn't spend all of those millions to elect Beto---it was to test the waters.  Now they know they can get close and maybe even win.  They've been moving people into Texas, to take up residence there.  Cruz had 18 people on staff---Beto had over 800.  Now those 800 will remain there and keep up their activism.

She believes everyone, no matter what state they're from, should be concerned about Texas and about keeping it red.  According to her, Cruz won the most conservative county in the state by only 3000 votes.

If anyone is interested, I can find the audio tomorrow and post it.

I don't care how anyone wants to characterize me for holding this point of view, I'm just stating the obvious. States that are the most welcoming to immigrants are the ones that are going dark blue.

Whatever else that can be said about it, the rats' blood-is-thicker-than-water tribal politics is lethally effective. Every other political obstacle can be overcome except this one. Its an appeal to one of humankind's most fundamental emotions.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 02:46:01 PM
I don't care how anyone wants to characterize me for holding this point of view, I'm just stating the obvious. States that are the most welcoming to immigrants are the ones that are going dark blue.

Whatever else that can be said about it, the rats' blood-is-thicker-than-water tribal politics is lethally effective. Every other political obstacle can be overcome except this one. Its an appeal to one of humankind's most fundamental emotions.

@skeeter

I don't have a single problem with anything you posted.

Texas worries me, though.  If it flips, we can say goodbye to Republican presidents for good.

Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Jazzhead on November 07, 2018, 02:49:35 PM
Why did Abbott win by 13 points yet Cruz just squeaked by?   Is the problem a changing Texas electorate, or just the anomaly that is Ted Cruz?   
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: skeeter on November 07, 2018, 02:51:27 PM
@skeeter

I don't have a single problem with anything you posted.

Texas worries me, though.  If it flips, we can say goodbye to Republican presidents for good.

Thats right. Whether they know it or not the come-one-come-all Jack Kemp types out there who claim to be conservative are cutting our throats politically with their open arms advocacy, meaning they're cutting our throats.

Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 02:52:48 PM
@skeeter

I don't have a single problem with anything you posted.

Texas worries me, though.  If it flips, we can say goodbye to Republican presidents for good.

@CatherineofAragon

There were two Republican candidates whose political future was decided by all Texans, not just those living in a particular district.

I think we need to figure out why one of those candidates won his election by 13 points and the other won by 3.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: skeeter on November 07, 2018, 03:06:00 PM
@CatherineofAragon

There were two Republican candidates whose political future was decided by all Texans, not just those living in a particular district.

I think we need to figure out why one of those candidates won his election by 13 points and the other won by 3.

Its tough even for an incumbent to overcome a 10 to 6 spending advantage as well as phenomenally good press coverage & celebrity focus.

Jim Carrey even put his sublime artistic talents to work for Beto fer cryin out loud.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 03:11:40 PM
Why did Abbott win by 13 points yet Cruz just squeaked by?   Is the problem a changing Texas electorate, or just the anomaly that is Ted Cruz?

Because the left was all in for Beto?  Because Trump helped Cruz and didn't help Abbott? 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 03:26:45 PM
@CatherineofAragon

There were two Republican candidates whose political future was decided by all Texans, not just those living in a particular district.

I think we need to figure out why one of those candidates won his election by 13 points and the other won by 3.

@Right_in_Virginia

Maybe because the left is getting closer to figuring out how to flip Texas. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 03:43:43 PM
@Right_in_Virginia

Maybe because the left is getting closer to figuring out how to flip Texas.

Maybe.  But as the Texas GOP revisits its strategy, I hope they see Cruz as an anomaly.  This is the second campaign he's run basically for and by himself --- no tea party, no Sarah Palin, no new kid on the block excitement.  Just him.  And there's no running from it--Cruz is a God-awful candidate.

I hope Texas doesn't screw up the revised strategy because Ted's squeaker of a win has everyone upset.   I hope they don't forget to focus on what Abbott did right to lock in a 13 point win.

@CatherineofAragon
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 03:46:36 PM
Maybe.  But as the Texas GOP revisits its strategy, I hope they see Cruz as an anomaly.  This is the second campaign he's run basically for and by himself --- no tea party, no Sarah Palin, no new kid on the block excitement.  Just him.  And there's no running from it--Cruz is a God-awful candidate.

I hope Texas doesn't screw up the revised strategy because Ted's squeaker of a win has everyone upset.   I hope they don't forget to focus on what Abbott did right to lock in a 13 point win.

@CatherineofAragon

Nope, wrong on all counts.  You can dismiss him as a bad candidate but that's not correct and completely obscures the statewide problems.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: thackney on November 07, 2018, 03:49:17 PM
Why did Abbott win by 13 points yet Cruz just squeaked by?   Is the problem a changing Texas electorate, or just the anomaly that is Ted Cruz?

@Jazzhead

Abbott's opponent, Lupe Valdez raised $1.2 million.  Cruz's opponent, Beto O'rourke raised $70~75 million.

Every election, the Democrats select one Texas statewide race to concentrate their funds and efforts.  They haven't won a single statewide election since 1994; not for any elected office.

They go all in, for the one race, raising funds from all over the country trying to break that hold.

I suspect Cruz was selected because of the 2016 conflicts with Trump.  Some of the typical Republican base still holds that against Cruz.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: DB on November 07, 2018, 03:49:28 PM
Why did Abbott win by 13 points yet Cruz just squeaked by?   Is the problem a changing Texas electorate, or just the anomaly that is Ted Cruz?

Trump and his followers did a lot of damage to Cruz. They wanted to primary him not long ago.

Pretty hypocritical to feign concern about his near loss when they were the ones who did the primary damage.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 03:53:54 PM
Trump and his followers did a lot of damage to Cruz. They wanted to primary him not long ago.

Pretty hypocritical to feign concern about his near loss when they were the ones who did the primary damage.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 04:08:08 PM
that was too close last night.

That's because Cruz is a dud. He is undynamic, wooden and a stiff. He parrots platitudes and gets nothing done. Abbott didn't have any problems winning by a nice margin with the same electorate. That's all you need to know.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Victoria33 on November 07, 2018, 04:12:53 PM
Dana Loesch just talked extensively about Cruz's win, and I'm going to drop some points here and see what you all think. 
According to her, Cruz won the most conservative county in the state by only 3000 votes.
@CatherineofAragon

The most conservative county in Texas is Montgomery County where my townhouse is.  Cruz won 72.31% of voters.  Beto won 26.04 % of voters.

Will send you PM, am sick.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Elderberry on November 07, 2018, 04:23:37 PM
Why did Abbott win by 13 points yet Cruz just squeaked by?   Is the problem a changing Texas electorate, or just the anomaly that is Ted Cruz?

Abbott held the megaphone. Since last year’s legislative session, the incumbent raised nearly $32 million. This year, he spent $46 million and still had $20 million left as of Oct. 27, according to his filings with the Texas Ethics Commission.

That left him plenty with which to place some last-minute bets on fellow Republicans, though he won’t have to disclose the details for many weeks.

Valdez raised $1.8 million through Oct. 27, meaning Abbott with his $66 million stash had nearly 37 times as much money to spend this year as she did.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
Abbott held the megaphone. Since last year’s legislative session, the incumbent raised nearly $32 million. This year, he spent $46 million and still had $20 million left as of Oct. 27, according to his filings with the Texas Ethics Commission.

That left him plenty with which to place some last-minute bets on fellow Republicans, though he won’t have to disclose the details for many weeks.

Valdez raised $1.8 million through Oct. 27, meaning Abbott with his $66 million stash had nearly 37 times as much money to spend this year as she did.

There is also the small matter that Abbott is great on the stump, had a coherent message that resonated and a tangible list of results. Ted, not so much.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 04:35:06 PM
Trump and his followers did a lot of damage to Cruz. They wanted to primary him not long ago.

Pretty hypocritical to feign concern about his near loss when they were the ones who did the primary damage.

Hmmm..... gee how quickly you forget it was President Trump who ended up dragging Rafael's sorry arse across the finish line.

Personally, I'd prefer you just say think you.   happy77

Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 04:35:54 PM
Hmmm..... gee how quickly you forget it was President Trump who ended up dragging Rafael's sorry arse across the finish line.

Personally, I'd prefer you just say think you.   happy77

You really think one visit from Trump did it?  Hilarious.

I love that y'all who are not from Texas telling us how things work down here.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: DB on November 07, 2018, 04:38:54 PM
Hmmm..... gee how quickly you forget it was President Trump who ended up dragging Rafael's sorry arse across the finish line.

Personally, I'd prefer you just say think you.   happy77

The Trump is strong in you...
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 04:39:33 PM
Nope, wrong on all counts.  You can dismiss him as a bad candidate but that's not correct and completely obscures the statewide problems.

Abbott overcame them.  Why couldn't Cruz?  @Sanguine
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: DB on November 07, 2018, 04:42:58 PM
Abbott overcame them.  Why couldn't Cruz?  @Sanguine

That might have something to do with "lying" Ted... You think?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 04:45:35 PM
You really think one visit from Trump did it?  Hilarious.
 

I'm glad you're laughing @Sanguine   ... nice to see.

And yes, I do think the President's coattails helped Cruz across the finish line one step ahead of Beto.   Apparently, all the polls we scoffed at (myself included) were right. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 04:45:53 PM
Abbott overcame them.  Why couldn't Cruz?  @Sanguine

Come on, you're smarter than that.  You know the answer to that, @Right_in_Virginia

1.  Trump did not campaign for Abbott
2.  Trump did seriously damage Cruz's reputation during the campaign
3.  The left targeted Cruz specifically and did not do so to Abbott
4.  And, Cruz said some ugly but true things about Trump during the campaign in response to Trump attacks and many EverTrumpers can't get past that.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Elderberry on November 07, 2018, 04:47:35 PM
Abbott overcame them.  Why couldn't Cruz?  @Sanguine

Abbott held the megaphone. Since last year’s legislative session, the incumbent raised nearly $32 million. This year, he spent $46 million and still had $20 million left as of Oct. 27, according to his filings with the Texas Ethics Commission.
That left him plenty with which to place some last-minute bets on fellow Republicans, though he won’t have to disclose the details for many weeks.
Valdez raised $1.8 million through Oct. 27, meaning Abbott with his $66 million stash had nearly 37 times as much money to spend this year as she did.


Cruz raised $40 million in this election cycle, and spent roughly $33.8 million, according to the Center for Respective Politics. If you think that’s a lot, it’s not much compared to O’Rourke’s haul. The Texas congressman raised an astonishing $69 million in a race that every poll said he would lose. O’Rourke’s campaign also spent $59 million.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 04:48:42 PM
Abbott overcame them.  Why couldn't Cruz?  @Sanguine

In politics, words matter.   Trump painting Cruz as a lying crook might have something to do with it.  Abbott didn't endure that type of attack from Trump.  Could be as simple as that.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 04:50:53 PM
That might have something to do with "lying" Ted... You think?

No.  I do not.  The President went a long way to heal that rift, literally.  If during the two years since the primaries Cruz couldn't prove -- by word and deed -- to the citizens of his own home state that he's not a liar --- don't blame anyone but him.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 04:52:28 PM
Come on, you're smarter than that.  You know the answer to that, @Right_in_Virginia

1.  Trump did not campaign for Abbott
2.  Trump did seriously damage Cruz's reputation during the campaign
3.  The left targeted Cruz specifically and did not do so to Abbott
4.  And, Cruz said some ugly but true things about Trump during the campaign in response to Trump attacks and many EverTrumpers can't get past that.

Exactly. And don't forget the fawning media coverage, the hour-long CNN campaign ad, the Hollyweird money, the foreign campaign money. An outrageous amount of money and hundreds of thousands of TV ads every flipping minute, the suppression of his criminality and so on.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 04:56:18 PM
In politics, words matter.   Trump painting Cruz as a lying crook might have something to do with it.  Abbott didn't endure that type of attack from Trump.  Could be as simple as that.

Nah ... this is all on Cruz.  He really needs to learn some life skills.  Being able to connect with people is a gift, Ted, not a curse.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Elderberry on November 07, 2018, 04:59:42 PM
In politics, words matter.   Trump painting Cruz as a lying crook might have something to do with it.  Abbott didn't endure that type of attack from Trump.  Could be as simple as that.

Exactly. My wife is a "Yellow Dog Democrat" but she actually voted for Cruz in the Presidential Primary. Now she is so pissed at Cruz for taking all the crap from Trump during the campaign and then seeming to buddy up to him. I don't think I'll be able to convince her to vote for a Republican ever again.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Victoria33 on November 07, 2018, 05:00:15 PM
Williamson County voted for Twitchy? Good God. My county, Bandera, was 80-20 for Cruz. I am astonished that there are 20% here that want socialism.
@austingirl

I have good friends in Bandera; been there multiple times.  I'm also surprised there are that many Dems in Bandera.  They must be hiding except to creep out to vote.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 05:01:05 PM
Nah ... this is all on Cruz.  He really needs to learn some life skills.  Being able to connect with people is a gift, Ted, not a curse.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

Just discard all of those facts.  Who needs any stinking facts?   :silly:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Elderberry on November 07, 2018, 05:01:49 PM
Nah ... this is all on Cruz.  He really needs to learn some life skills.  Being able to connect with people is a gift, Ted, not a curse.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

Is that "The Pot Calling the Kettle Black"?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 05:02:06 PM
Come on, you're smarter than that.  You know the answer to that, @Right_in_Virginia

1.  Trump did not campaign for Abbott
2.  Trump did seriously damage Cruz's reputation during the campaign
3.  The left targeted Cruz specifically and did not do so to Abbott
4.  And, Cruz said some ugly but true things about Trump during the campaign in response to Trump attacks and many EverTrumpers can't get past that.


Delusional.  Simply delusional.  88devil
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 05:02:28 PM
Is that "The Pot Calling the Kettle Black"?

Nope.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 05:05:20 PM
@CatherineofAragon

The most conservative county in Texas is Montgomery County where my townhouse is.  Cruz won 72.31% of voters.  Beto won 26.04 % of voters.

Will send you PM, am sick.

Get better!   :0001: :0001:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 05:05:43 PM


Delusional.  Simply delusional.  88devil

Now, come on.  That's weak, even for you.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 05:06:18 PM
Just discard all of those facts.  Who needs any stinking facts?   :silly:

The web of delusions you've strung together is unnecessary @Sanguine .  Someone needs to openly admit that Cruz is a terrible, repellent, down right creepy little man.   Whoever admits this should then get Cruz some help with this.  People don't like him.  Period. 

And hurry, he's only got six years to work on this.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 05:09:04 PM
Now, come on.  That's weak, even for you.

No need to personally insult me @Sanguine   

If you love this guy ... find someone to tell him the truth straight up:  Maybe politics isn't the right path for Rafael.  No harm, no foul.  Just not the right fit.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 05:13:09 PM
Nah ... this is all on Cruz.  He really needs to learn some life skills.  Being able to connect with people is a gift, Ted, not a curse.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

Ok.  I'd be willing to accept the possibility that it's a combination of the two things.  Are you willing to do the same?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 05:15:16 PM
Exactly. My wife is a "Yellow Dog Democrat" but she actually voted for Cruz in the Presidential Primary. Now she is so pissed at Cruz for taking all the crap from Trump during the campaign and then seeming to buddy up to him. I don't think I'll be able to convince her to vote for a Republican ever again.

Ehh.... I don't hold that against Cruz.  It's politics, after all.   I vote for and support Cruz because he shares and represents my values and I know he's a decent man.  It's not complex.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 05:18:18 PM
Come on, you're smarter than that.  You know the answer to that, @Right_in_Virginia

1.  Trump did not campaign for Abbott
2.  Trump did seriously damage Cruz's reputation during the campaign
3.  The left targeted Cruz specifically and did not do so to Abbott
4.  And, Cruz said some ugly but true things about Trump during the campaign in response to Trump attacks and many EverTrumpers can't get past that.

Like hell. Ted Cruz was an embarrassment after the delegate count was against him. He went after Carson of all people and that blew up in his face. Had to fire his manager. He went to the convention and gave an idiotic speech chastising the electorate and didn't endorse the GOP nominee only to backtrack and endorse him in a sad and pathetic sort of way. He was MIA from doing his job for a year during this Quixotic run for President and then decided to play basketball with a late night TV hack instead of buckling down and repairing the damage he wrought.

Now you are forced to manufacture excuses why he barely won against a Commie Skate Rat. Hilarious.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 05:23:13 PM
Like hell. Ted Cruz was an embarrassment after the delegate count was against him. He went after Carson of all people and that blew up in his face. Had to fire his manager. He went to the convention and gave an idiotic speech chastising the electorate and didn't endorse the GOP nominee only to backtrack and endorse him in a sad and pathetic sort of way. He was MIA from doing his job for a year during this Quixotic run for President and then decided to play basketball with a late night TV hack instead of buckling down and repairing the damage he wrought.

Now you are forced to manufacture excuses why he barely won against a Commie Skate Rat. Hilarious.

Another fact-free post. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Victoria33 on November 07, 2018, 05:28:11 PM
@Right_in_Virginia
Maybe because the left is getting closer to figuring out how to flip Texas. 
@CatherineofAragon

"Why did Abbott win by 13 points yet Cruz just squeaked by?"

Greg Abbott was State Attorney General for many years before he was governor. He fought for Texas in numerous areas, just as going to the Supreme Court to allow Texas to keep the Ten Commandments on State Government Grounds.  He had earlier hired a fellow by the name of Ted Cruz to be his legal arm.  It was Ted Cruz who won that case in the Supreme Court and the Ten Commandments are still on State Government Grounds.

Abbott was tough on divorced fathers, making them pay their child support payments.  He had laws passed for abortion clinics to be near hospitals so many abortion clinics are closed. Abbott was tough on elections, taking people to court who violated Texas Election Law.  Abbott was tough on the US Government, as said below:

Abbot made this statement when he was Attorney General:  He said he went to office every day and sued the US Government; then he went home at the end of the day and came back the next day to sue the US Government.

Abbott lives in a wheel chair and is married for many years to a lovely Spanish woman.  He is a hunter and protects citizens' rights to have hunting firearms and also self defense firearms. He protects the Castle Doctrine: Your home is your castle and you have the right to kill anyone who tries to kill you on your property.

I would call him an itemized guy.  He is going to look at the small print to determine what a law/document/note means to individual Texans and if it doesn't help them, he will not sign it.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 05:30:51 PM
Another fact-free post.

LOL. Love your denial. There is a reason nobody wanted to vote for him in the Primaries and then in his Senate run. He is a dull shifty player.

My post was so chock full of facts it almost got a Wikipedia address of it's own.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 05:32:28 PM
Like hell. Ted Cruz was an embarrassment after the delegate count was against him. He went after Carson of all people and that blew up in his face. Had to fire his manager. He went to the convention and gave an idiotic speech chastising the electorate and didn't endorse the GOP nominee only to backtrack and endorse him in a sad and pathetic sort of way. He was MIA from doing his job for a year during this Quixotic run for President and then decided to play basketball with a late night TV hack instead of buckling down and repairing the damage he wrought.

Now you are forced to manufacture excuses why he barely won against a Commie Skate Rat. Hilarious.

Whatever you think of Cruz personally, Trump did a lot of damage during the Primaries, and I'm still amazed Cruz could win at all.  Glad to see the 3% win...I'll take it.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 05:34:25 PM
LOL. Love your denial. There is a reason nobody wanted to vote for him in the Primaries and then in his Senate run. He is a dull shifty player.

My post was so chock full of facts it almost got a Wikipedia address of it's own.

Well.... it was chock full of 'something', anyway. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 05:36:37 PM
Whatever you think of Cruz personally, Trump did a lot of damage during the Primaries, and I'm still amazed Cruz could win at all.  Glad to see the 3% win...I'll take it.

Well if that is the case then Trump really is God. Thanks for the confirmation.

BTW Little Marco got kicked around like a fruit in a bath house and he did just fine getting reelected.....even after the Trump abuse and promising not to run again.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 05:39:44 PM
Why did Abbott win by 13 points yet Cruz just squeaked by?   Is the problem a changing Texas electorate, or just the anomaly that is Ted Cruz?
likely who the opponent was contributed.

A white Obama clone supported by the lefty cookie jar could have been more appealing than a unsupported unknown in Lupe
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 05:47:38 PM
@austingirl

I have good friends in Bandera; been there multiple times.  I'm also surprised there are that many Dems in Bandera.  They must be hiding except to creep out to vote.
likely rich libs staying at dude ranches that decided to vote that day
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 05:49:33 PM
That's because Cruz is a dud. He is undynamic, wooden and a stiff. He parrots platitudes and gets nothing done. Abbott didn't have any problems winning by a nice margin with the same electorate. That's all you need to know.

@Frank Cannon

Not really.  He was the same person in 2012 when he won by a good margin.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 05:51:17 PM
The web of delusions you've strung together is unnecessary @Sanguine .  Someone needs to openly admit that Cruz is a terrible, repellent, down right creepy little man.   Whoever admits this should then get Cruz some help with this.  People don't like him.  Period. 

And hurry, he's only got six years to work on this.
have met Cruz over a friend's house during Senate runoff 6 yrs ago.  Could not be a nicer, more sincere guy around.

You are way off base and reading tabloids instead oF trying to really see and hear him.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 05:52:53 PM
Well.... it was chock full of 'something', anyway.

@XenaLee

@Frank Cannon is adopting his views straight out of Trump's brain these days.  Kind of like Donald's Mini-Me.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 05:54:38 PM
@austingirl

I have good friends in Bandera; been there multiple times.  I'm also surprised there are that many Dems in Bandera.  They must be hiding except to creep out to vote.
@Victoria33
I was surprised when I saw some Beto signs, but I guess the big money and constant ads had an effect. I actually live in Medina- even smaller but still Bandera County.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: dfwgator on November 07, 2018, 05:56:19 PM
If I could choose one person that I wish could be POTUS it would be Governor Abbott.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 05:56:54 PM
Another fact-free post.
yep.  Cruz has been outstanding in representing sensible govt.  Politicians hate it as he does not go along with business as usual, but fights.

It makes a lot of enemies, even in his own party, but his supporters know he is on their side.

I believe Ted and Trump understand each other well and are the smartest people in DC.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Elderberry on November 07, 2018, 05:58:04 PM
@Victoria33
I was surprised when I saw some Beto signs, but I guess the big money and constant ads had an effect. I actually live in Medina- even smaller but still Bandera County.

I always thought it odd that Medina wasn't in Medina County.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Victoria33 on November 07, 2018, 05:58:30 PM
If I could choose one person that I wish could be POTUS it would be Governor Abbott.
@dfwgator

Me, too.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 05:58:48 PM
@XenaLee

@Frank Cannon is adopting his views straight out of Trump's brain these days.  Kind of like Donald's Mini-Me.

Fwanky needs to get with the program.  Even Trump has "come around" to realizing that it does his agenda no good to not support someone whose support he needs going forward.

Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 05:59:27 PM
If I could choose one person that I wish could be POTUS it would be Governor Abbott.
I can support that.

He and Pence would be a great team in 2024.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Victoria33 on November 07, 2018, 06:00:11 PM
I always thought it odd that Medina wasn't in Medina County.
@Elderberry

Way back then, maybe the surveyor was drunk.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 06:02:09 PM
@Frank Cannon

Not really.  He was the same person in 2012 when he won by a good margin.

Cruz was targeted by the Communist Party of the US just as McSally was. They poured money into those races- it was prominently stated on their website. Add the other money Twitchy was deluged with and an unrelenting media blitz, not to mention who knows how much voter fraud by the dems, I am delighted Cruz won. The dems won't bother targeting Cruz again if they've learned their lesson about wasting money.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 06:03:35 PM
I always thought it odd that Medina wasn't in Medina County.

And everyone thinks it's on Medina Lake.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 06:04:37 PM
If I could choose one person that I wish could be POTUS it would be Governor Abbott.

He' s got my vote if he runs. Just be sure to leave Texas in good hands.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 06:07:06 PM
Well if that is the case then Trump really is God. Thanks for the confirmation.

 *****rollingeyes*****

Sure, Frank.  You're fulla it.  You trust politicians as much as I do.  I don't "trust" Cruz or Trump any farther than I can throw them.  They're doing what I want, for the most part, now.  I can't promise tomorrow.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 06:08:17 PM
Fwanky needs to get with the program.  Even Trump has "come around" to realizing that it does his agenda no good to not support someone whose support he needs going forward.
he is too busy writing editorials.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,339339.msg1839251.html#msg1839251 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,339339.msg1839251.html#msg1839251)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 06:09:06 PM
I always thought it odd that Medina wasn't in Medina County.

Rusk isn't in Rusk County, it's the county seat of Cherokee.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:09:26 PM
The web of delusions you've strung together is unnecessary @Sanguine .  Someone needs to openly admit that Cruz is a terrible, repellent, down right creepy little man.   Whoever admits this should then get Cruz some help with this.  People don't like him.  Period. 

And hurry, he's only got six years to work on this.

@Right_in_Virginia

Lmaoooo

The convention speech is still killing you, isn't it?   

Honestly, I do wish Ted could be more palatable.  You know, more like a certain fat, lecherous old bleep-grabber with dyed yellow hair and man-boobs who likes to talk about his geriatric junk.

Yeah, baby, just like that!

(https://i.imgur.com/XeGHOZC.jpg)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:11:55 PM
Fwanky needs to get with the program.  Even Trump has "come around" to realizing that it does his agenda no good to not support someone whose support he needs going forward.

@XenaLee

Aren't conservatives supposed to be the smart ones who don't base their votes on shallow things?

Or is that no longer....

...yeah, dumb question.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:12:41 PM
I hope Melania closes her eyes and thinks of England.

Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 06:13:04 PM
he is too busy writing editorials.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,339339.msg1839251.html#msg1839251 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,339339.msg1839251.html#msg1839251)

So that's why @Frank Cannon and the Mods love each other so much!  He's been moonlighting.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 06:13:26 PM
@XenaLee

Aren't conservatives supposed to be the smart ones who don't base their votes on shallow things?

Or is that no longer....

...yeah, dumb question.

Yeah... well.......

there are conservatives.... and then there are those that call themselves conservatives....

while acting just the opposite.   So....
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 06:15:04 PM
I hope Melania closes her eyes and thinks of England.

Better yet... maybe she thinks of Andrew Lincoln.   [slurp]

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjI2NDYyNjg4NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjI5OTMwNA@@._V1_UY317_CR9,0,214,317_AL_.jpg)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:18:54 PM
Better yet... maybe she thinks of Andrew Lincoln.   [slurp]

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjI2NDYyNjg4NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjI5OTMwNA@@._V1_UY317_CR9,0,214,317_AL_.jpg)

@XenaLee

Could you blame her, lol?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 06:20:56 PM
@XenaLee

Could you blame her, lol?

Hell no.  He's definitely dreamy .....and slurpable.   888mouth  (is that even a word?)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 06:21:39 PM
Fwanky needs to get with the program.  Even Trump has "come around" to realizing that it does his agenda no good to not support someone whose support he needs going forward.

Didn't say I didn't support him. I'm telling you why nobody likes him.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 06:23:07 PM
So that's why @Frank Cannon and the Mods love each other so much!  He's been moonlighting.

I think it has already been established that I am the only authorized Mod on the board.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 06:23:18 PM
have met Cruz over a friend's house during Senate runoff 6 yrs ago.  Could not be a nicer, more sincere guy around.

You are way off base and reading tabloids instead oF trying to really see and hear him.

I have no debate with what you experienced @IsailedawayfromFR   But your experience doesn't guarantee it translates the same way to the general public.

Here's what I just don't understand:   The Republicans/Conservatives showed up.  They checked the box for Abbott.  Right below it was a box for Ted Cruz.  Why didn't they check it?  Cruz's margin of victory should have been 10% or more ... just based on this.

But the majority who voted for Abbott made a conscious, deliberate choice NOT to vote for Cruz.  If it's because Beto and the media worked their dark magic against Cruz, then Texans don't know the man.  It would behoove (I love this word) Cruz to fix this.  Spend more time in Texas.  Go to diners, bring the one-on-one experience you had to the voters --- when it's not in the middle of a campaign. Talk to them, let them get to know him.  Because if what you're saying is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, Cruz is a stranger to the people in Texas -- and this means anyone can define him.

Anyway, he won.  And for that we can all breathe a sigh of relief. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 06:28:13 PM
I think it has already been established that I am the only authorized Mod on the board.

So you're mad at yourself?  You're seriously conflicted, get some help.   :silly:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 06:28:21 PM
@Right_in_Virginia

Lmaoooo   The convention speech is still killing you, isn't it?   

Not me @CatherineofAragon  But it may still be hurting Cruz.  If he needs to mend fences with the people of Texas, he should take the time to do this. He needs to find his roots, let the people of Texas know him and give them some solid accomplishments in the Senate.

Or not.  It's up to Cruz.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 06:30:03 PM
Didn't say I didn't support him. I'm telling you why nobody likes him.

Frank..... you're being contrarian and dishonest here.   I like him... and over 4 million others like him too.  Yeah, he lacks a certain warmth and ability to connect to voters that don't know him... but considering that, he still did (and does) pretty good.  Especially considering the lack of $$$ put behind his election vs. Twitchy's campaign coffer.  Just sayin....

Would love to see you give him some credit where due. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 06:31:34 PM
Didn't say I didn't support him. I'm telling you why nobody likes him.
I like him.  And the majority of Texans like him both times he ran on the ticket.

Are you saying Texans are nobodies?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 06:33:53 PM
   It was Texas Trumpers that shared a similar dislike to Sen. Cruz that @Right_in_Virginia @Frank Cannon and last but certainly not least @TomSea does that causes his winning by 2% and not 10%.  So screw you 'fake' Cruz lovers'
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 06:34:19 PM
Not me @CatherineofAragon  But it may still be hurting Cruz.  If he needs to mend fences with the people of Texas, he should take the time to do this. He needs to find his roots, let the people of Texas know him and give them some solid accomplishments in the Senate.

Or not.  It's up to Cruz.   :shrug:

Yes...bending his knee to Trump will bring his voters back in droves. *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 06:36:40 PM
Frank..... you're being contrarian and dishonest here.   I like him... and over 4 million others like him too.  Yeah, he lacks a certain warmth and ability to connect to voters that don't know him... but considering that, he still did (and does) pretty good.  Especially considering the lack of $$$ put behind his election vs. Twitchy's campaign coffer.  Just sayin....

Would love to see you give him some credit where due.

I'm not giving him credit for shit. You wanna go grab for the brass ring you better get it and not fall off the horse.

BTW if you think this is a one time deal you are mistaken. They will have Beatoff 2.0 in 5 years in Texas and ready to go. If you haven't noticed the illegals voting the very blue counties out-braking on the southern border take heed. There may not be enough R's in the state to drag a dull lifeless candidate with the voice of George HW Bush across the line.

The Rats need that state to stop GOP Presidential candidates forever.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 06:37:44 PM
I like him.  And the majority of Texans like him both times he ran on the ticket.

Are you saying Texans are nobodies?

Yeah. He really blew that election out last night didn't he?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 07, 2018, 06:37:51 PM
I have no debate with what you experienced @IsailedawayfromFR   But your experience doesn't guarantee it translates the same way to the general public.

you said he was repellent.  The general public certainly does not think that way, nor does a majority of Texans.  Both times he has run.

Abbott is just a better politician.  Does not mean Cruz is a terrible candidate.  He just does not campaign as well.

[/quote]
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:40:30 PM
Hell no.  He's definitely dreamy .....and slurpable.   888mouth  (is that even a word?)

Hell yes, lol.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 07, 2018, 06:41:02 PM
I'm not giving him credit for shit. You wanna go grab for the brass ring you better get it and not fall off the horse.

BTW if you think this is a one time deal you are mistaken. They will have Beatoff 2.0 in 5 years in Texas and ready to go. If you haven't noticed the illegals voting the very blue counties out-braking on the southern border take heed. There may not be enough R's in the state to drag a dull lifeless candidate with the voice of George HW Bush across the line.

The Rats need that state to stop GOP Presidential candidates forever.

So... what?   Are you pissed at Cruz because he's not, in your opinion, a good enough candidate to defeat the rats then?   Then who is?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:44:42 PM
Not me @CatherineofAragon  But it may still be hurting Cruz.  If he needs to mend fences with the people of Texas, he should take the time to do this. He needs to find his roots, let the people of Texas know him and give them some solid accomplishments in the Senate.

Or not.  It's up to Cruz.   :shrug:

@Right_in_Virginia

It's too late, RIV.  The emotion boiled over in that post of yours, lol. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: TomSea on November 07, 2018, 06:44:48 PM
Like hell. Ted Cruz was an embarrassment after the delegate count was against him. He went after Carson of all people and that blew up in his face. Had to fire his manager. He went to the convention and gave an idiotic speech chastising the electorate and didn't endorse the GOP nominee only to backtrack and endorse him in a sad and pathetic sort of way. He was MIA from doing his job for a year during this Quixotic run for President and then decided to play basketball with a late night TV hack instead of buckling down and repairing the damage he wrought.

Now you are forced to manufacture excuses why he barely won against a Commie Skate Rat. Hilarious.

Yes, excellent post.  Since, too, Raphael has an unknown past 1963 and before, this kind of stuff can be fair game. That's not Trump's fault. Cruz has gone after the past of his opponents but then, alleged Cruz-supporters cry foul if the tables are turned.

 goopo

It's not like O'Rourke's DWI arrest was not fair game.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 06:45:31 PM
   Frank's just pizzed because Cruz didn't marry an Eastern European.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:46:44 PM
Yes, excellent post.  Since, too, Raphael has an unknown past 1963 and before, this kind of stuff can be fair game. That's not Trump's fault. Cruz has gone after the past of his opponents but then, alleged Cruz-supporters cry foul if the tables are turned.

 goopo

@TomSea

LOL
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 07, 2018, 06:47:51 PM
Yes, excellent post.  Since, too, Raphael has an unknown past 1963 and before, this kind of stuff can be fair game. That's not Trump's fault. Cruz has gone after the past of his opponents but then, alleged Cruz-supporters cry foul if the tables are turned.

 goopo

Alright. That's it. I just got the Tommy Seal of Approval. My work is done here. I'm closing the thread and leaving the forum.

Been great knowing you all. Good luck in all your endeavors. Toodles.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 06:49:35 PM
   If that's the case @TomSea someone in Trump's campaign staff should be indicted for exposing CIA secrets, oh wait his campaign staff is already under indictment.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:50:09 PM
you said he was repellent.  The general public certainly does not think that way, nor does a majority of Texans.  Both times he has run.

Abbott is just a better politician.  Does not mean Cruz is a terrible candidate.  He just does not campaign as well.

@IsailedawayfromFR

Allow me to post the full quote:

"Someone needs to openly admit that Cruz is a terrible, repellent, down right creepy little man."

Don't even try to tell me that stuff isn't personal, lol.

@Right_in_Virginia
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 06:54:14 PM
@TomSea, why are you worried about Raphael?  Forget him.  Ted Cruz still has not been brought to justice for his crimes, and he has the nerve to openly mock the American people for it.


(https://i.imgur.com/oWtxJq4.jpg)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 06:54:15 PM
Yes...bending his knee to Trump will bring his voters back in droves.

I am not talking about the President @Cyber Liberty   I'm suggesting that Cruz work to reconnect with the voters in his state.  The bond is apparently quite frayed, and whatever the reasons are for this state of affairs the reality is it is Cruz's job to mend that bond.  I'm further suggesting that doing this sooner rather than later would be best --- for Cruz --- before the frayed bond completely breaks.

Cruz has work to do at home. 

Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 07, 2018, 06:58:30 PM
@IsailedawayfromFR

Allow me to post the full quote:

"Someone needs to openly admit that Cruz is a terrible, repellent, down right creepy little man."

Don't even try to tell me that stuff isn't personal, lol.

@Right_in_Virginia 

It's not @CatherineofAragon  What I described is how the majority of voters view Ted Cruz.  He cannot continue to win elections when the public views him in this way.  He needs to work on this ... and he needs to work on some accomplishments in the Senate.

Real friends would help him with this.  He is one terrible candidate.  His luck won't hold forever.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: TomSea on November 07, 2018, 07:01:07 PM
Trump helped Cruz a lot, Trump/Pence in all varieties went to bat for Cruz at least 4 times in Texas.

It's like that song, I think they should have made an ad with it.  'That's what friends are for' and then, with video of Cruz and Trump together, it would have been great.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyTpu6BmE88#)

Over at TOS, unfortunately, a lot of the folks who are supposedly pro-Cruz seem to just be cheap shot artists right down the line. It's sad.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: TomSea on November 07, 2018, 07:03:11 PM
@TomSea, why are you worried about Raphael?  Forget him.  Ted Cruz still has not been brought to justice for his crimes, and he has the nerve to openly mock the American people for it.


(https://i.imgur.com/oWtxJq4.jpg)

Why? Because it was a point of discussion. Try to keep up!  This is a discussion forum.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: skeeter on November 07, 2018, 07:06:24 PM
It's not @CatherineofAragon  What I described is how the majority of voters view Ted Cruz.  He cannot continue to win elections when the public views him in this way.  He needs to work on this ... and he needs to work on some accomplishments in the Senate.

Real friends would help him with this.  He is one terrible candidate.  His luck won't hold forever.

As a representative and defender of liberty Ted Cruz the best.

But you're right he can't do any good unless he gets elected and stays elected. We need him around for another two or three decades.

There's nothing he can do about his looks. I would hope we as a people were more sophisticated than to vote for looks but thats where we are.

What he can do, IMO, is back off the elevator speech. He's a smart, funny guy and has a great personality. Every now and then you get a glimpse of it but he needs to cultivate it and show it more often.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 07:07:12 PM
     @TomSea This deranged Texan thinks Trump hurt Cruz by coming here, but in all honesty what hurt Cruz most is his first voting for that last 'insane' Budget Trump signed.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 07:09:40 PM
Trump helped Cruz a lot, Trump/Pence in all varieties went to bat for Cruz at least 4 times in Texas.

It's like that song, I think they should have made an ad with it.  'That's what friends are for' and then, with video of Cruz and Trump together, it would have been great.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyTpu6BmE88#)

Over at TOS, unfortunately, a lot of the folks who are supposedly pro-Cruz seem to just be cheap shot artists right down the line. It's sad.

Good thing they didn't make a sappy ad like that.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: HoustonSam on November 07, 2018, 07:09:53 PM
   It was Texas Trumpers that shared a similar dislike to Sen. Cruz that @Right_in_Virginia @Frank Cannon and last but certainly not least @TomSea does that causes his winning by 2% and not 10%.  So screw you 'fake' Cruz lovers'

Ted Cruz was plenty popular in Texas, and nationally for that matter given the strength of his Iowa campaign, until Trump did his best to destroy personally both Cruz and Cruz's family, including the morning after securing the nomination at the Republican convention.  There was no long-term strategy or insight behind Trump's behavior, no "flying nine dimensional invisible stealth jedi chess" that only Trump was smart enough to understand, just pure narcissistic malice.  Some of Trump's defenders in the media have suggested that Trump deserves the credit for Cruz's victory because Trump campaigned for Cruz recently; at best Trump was merely helping to solve a problem that he had previously created, a problem which could have put the Republican Senate majority at greater risk.

To Trump's credit he was the first to make illegal immigration a central issue in the 2016 campaign, he has demonstrated to the Republican establishment that their base wants a fight, he's taking a strong position on regulation, and he's been true to his word on Supreme Court nominees.  But the argument that there is simply something wrong with Ted Cruz is a canonical example of viewing the entire political world through the funhouse-mirror lens of exalting every word Trump speaks and every move he makes.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 07:11:16 PM
   I hope Cruz is the deciding vote on the Supreme Court in 2023 that finally imprisons your guy for being overly stupid.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: berdie on November 07, 2018, 07:13:02 PM
   Frank's just pizzed because Cruz didn't marry an Eastern European.


That made me  :silly:  for real!!
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: catfish1957 on November 07, 2018, 07:16:53 PM
Nah ... this is all on Cruz.  He really needs to learn some life skills.  Being able to connect with people is a gift, Ted, not a curse.

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

Baloney.  I've met Ted Cruz.  He is very personable, intelligent, and connects well with folks.   You just can't see that Trump's and MSM's smears have stuck.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: berdie on November 07, 2018, 07:17:53 PM
Way too close. 

Here's a map showing county by county.  And Lupe Valdez beat out Abbott in once-deep-red Hays County!


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/results?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/results?ocid=spartanntp)


@Sanguine @IsailedawayfromFR

Not only the Cruz election, but most of the election (with the exception of Abbott) was way too close, imho.

I blame it largely on the influx of east and west coast refugees.

I'm worried.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 07:23:58 PM
Ted Cruz was plenty popular in Texas, and nationally for that matter given the strength of his Iowa campaign, until Trump did his best to destroy personally both Cruz and Cruz's family, including the morning after securing the nomination at the Republican convention.  There was no long-term strategy or insight behind Trump's behavior, no "flying nine dimensional invisible stealth jedi chess" that only Trump was smart enough to understand, just pure narcissistic malice.  Some of Trump's defenders in the media have suggested that Trump deserves the credit for Cruz's victory because Trump campaigned for Cruz recently; at best Trump was merely helping to solve a problem that he had previously created, a problem which could have put the Republican Senate majority at greater risk.

To Trump's credit he was the first to make illegal immigration a central issue in the 2016 campaign, he has demonstrated to the Republican establishment that their base wants a fight, he's taking a strong position on regulation, and he's been true to his word on Supreme Court nominees.  But the argument that there is simply something wrong with Ted Cruz is a canonical example of viewing the entire political world through the funhouse-mirror lens of exalting every word Trump speaks and every move he makes.


 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: austingirl on November 07, 2018, 07:24:56 PM
Baloney.  I've met Ted Cruz.  He is very personable, intelligent, and connects well with folks.   You just can't see that Trump's and MSM's smears have stuck.

I agree!
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: berdie on November 07, 2018, 07:25:21 PM
Hmmm..... gee how quickly you forget it was President Trump who ended up dragging Rafael's sorry arse across the finish line.

Personally, I'd prefer you just say think you.   happy77


I find that offensive. Trump didn't drag anyone over the finish line.  Not everyone is as in love with Trump as you are. If he hadn't come here most would have still voted for Cruz. Today, at least, Texas is still a red state and don't like the politics of the type that Beto pushes.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 07:28:00 PM

@Sanguine @IsailedawayfromFR

Not only the Cruz election, but most of the election (with the exception of Abbott) was way too close, imho.

I blame it largely on the influx of east and west coast refugees.

I'm worried.


   Plausible @berdie and I am somewhat ashamed to admit I didn't vote yesterday in the hope that the GOP reads into the 'sick of being lied too' people that said f### it.

   I was wrong on all my predictions, but glad Cruz won.

              Dave Alvin and Phil Alvin - "World's In A Bad Condition"

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eR5D_hEQ4Y#)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: berdie on November 07, 2018, 07:36:42 PM

   Plausible @berdie and I am somewhat ashamed to admit I didn't vote yesterday in the hope that the GOP reads into the 'sick of being lied too' people that said f### it.

   I was wrong on all my predictions, but glad Cruz won.

              Dave Alvin and Phil Alvin - "World's In A Bad Condition"

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eR5D_hEQ4Y#)



Now @corbe surely you know by now politicians on either side can't read...you silly wabbit. They rely on blind loyalty...at least the Dems do...and they get it. Our side doesn't, which is a good thing. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 07:42:18 PM
I am not talking about the President @Cyber Liberty   I'm suggesting that Cruz work to reconnect with the voters in his state.  The bond is apparently quite frayed, and whatever the reasons are for this state of affairs the reality is it is Cruz's job to mend that bond.  I'm further suggesting that doing this sooner rather than later would be best --- for Cruz --- before the frayed bond completely breaks.

Cruz has work to do at home.

I can go along with that, but I still have to wonder if it was the Beto ads that did real damage.  Negative ads work.  Might also be they don't like the shape of his face.  Some dumbass writer from some Psych magazine did a whole article about Cruz's dishonest facial lines.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 07, 2018, 07:48:57 PM
     @TomSea This deranged Texan thinks Trump hurt Cruz by coming here, but in all honesty what hurt Cruz most is his first voting for that last 'insane' Budget Trump signed.

I'd rather listen to a deranged Texan about Texas ground-level politics than some Eastern Seaboarder.  Only you guys know Texas as thoroughly as I know AZ.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 07:52:15 PM


Now @corbe surely you know by now politicians on either side can't read...you silly wabbit. They rely on blind loyalty...at least the Dems do...and they get it. Our side doesn't, which is a good thing. 
   


   Every azzhole locally (I did the primaries), mostly GOP (besides Lloyd Doggett (D), won and my vote wouldn't have mattered @berdie 
   Had Cruz lost by 1 vote, I'd be suicidal, tonight.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 07, 2018, 07:58:37 PM
I'd rather listen to a deranged Texan about Texas ground-level politics than some Eastern Seaboarder.  Only you guys know Texas as thoroughly as I know AZ.


   And @Cyber Liberty just as I gave the citizens of Arizona a break on the Flake/McCain thing, and Alabama on Roy Moore, This is a Texas thing, we'll figure it out just as the aforementioned did.

   PA and VA gone Blue and these Yankees have the audacity to call me out.    Go Figure.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 07, 2018, 08:33:13 PM
Why? Because it was a point of discussion. Try to keep up!  This is a discussion forum.

@TomSea

LOL
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 09:20:46 PM
Ted Cruz was plenty popular in Texas, and nationally for that matter given the strength of his Iowa campaign, until Trump did his best to destroy personally both Cruz and Cruz's family, including the morning after securing the nomination at the Republican convention.  There was no long-term strategy or insight behind Trump's behavior, no "flying nine dimensional invisible stealth jedi chess" that only Trump was smart enough to understand, just pure narcissistic malice.  Some of Trump's defenders in the media have suggested that Trump deserves the credit for Cruz's victory because Trump campaigned for Cruz recently; at best Trump was merely helping to solve a problem that he had previously created, a problem which could have put the Republican Senate majority at greater risk.

To Trump's credit he was the first to make illegal immigration a central issue in the 2016 campaign, he has demonstrated to the Republican establishment that their base wants a fight, he's taking a strong position on regulation, and he's been true to his word on Supreme Court nominees.  But the argument that there is simply something wrong with Ted Cruz is a canonical example of viewing the entire political world through the funhouse-mirror lens of exalting every word Trump speaks and every move he makes.

 goopo
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 07, 2018, 09:22:33 PM

@Sanguine @IsailedawayfromFR

Not only the Cruz election, but most of the election (with the exception of Abbott) was way too close, imho.

I blame it largely on the influx of east and west coast refugees.

I'm worried.

We should be @berdie. We will have to work very hard to maintain our red status.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: HoustonSam on November 07, 2018, 09:46:55 PM
@Sanguine  @austingirl

Thanks both of you.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: GrouchoTex on November 08, 2018, 02:10:11 PM
Ted Cruz was plenty popular in Texas, and nationally for that matter given the strength of his Iowa campaign, until Trump did his best to destroy personally both Cruz and Cruz's family, including the morning after securing the nomination at the Republican convention.  There was no long-term strategy or insight behind Trump's behavior, no "flying nine dimensional invisible stealth jedi chess" that only Trump was smart enough to understand, just pure narcissistic malice.  Some of Trump's defenders in the media have suggested that Trump deserves the credit for Cruz's victory because Trump campaigned for Cruz recently; at best Trump was merely helping to solve a problem that he had previously created, a problem which could have put the Republican Senate majority at greater risk.

To Trump's credit he was the first to make illegal immigration a central issue in the 2016 campaign, he has demonstrated to the Republican establishment that their base wants a fight, he's taking a strong position on regulation, and he's been true to his word on Supreme Court nominees.  But the argument that there is simply something wrong with Ted Cruz is a canonical example of viewing the entire political world through the funhouse-mirror lens of exalting every word Trump speaks and every move he makes.

 :amen:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 09, 2018, 04:26:31 AM
Ted Cruz was plenty popular in Texas, and nationally for that matter given the strength of his Iowa campaign, until Trump did his best to destroy personally both Cruz and Cruz's family, including the morning after securing the nomination at the Republican convention.  There was no long-term strategy or insight behind Trump's behavior, no "flying nine dimensional invisible stealth jedi chess" that only Trump was smart enough to understand, just pure narcissistic malice.  Some of Trump's defenders in the media have suggested that Trump deserves the credit for Cruz's victory because Trump campaigned for Cruz recently; at best Trump was merely helping to solve a problem that he had previously created, a problem which could have put the Republican Senate majority at greater risk.

To Trump's credit he was the first to make illegal immigration a central issue in the 2016 campaign, he has demonstrated to the Republican establishment that their base wants a fight, he's taking a strong position on regulation, and he's been true to his word on Supreme Court nominees.  But the argument that there is simply something wrong with Ted Cruz is a canonical example of viewing the entire political world through the funhouse-mirror lens of exalting every word Trump speaks and every move he makes.
Right! THe poison started going into the well after Cruz won Iowa, and it just didn't stop until well after the General Election. No way that didn't leave a mark, and there was no long term plan.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: roamer_1 on November 09, 2018, 05:17:12 AM
Ted Cruz was plenty popular in Texas, and nationally for that matter given the strength of his Iowa campaign, until Trump did his best to destroy personally both Cruz and Cruz's family, including the morning after securing the nomination at the Republican convention.  There was no long-term strategy or insight behind Trump's behavior, no "flying nine dimensional invisible stealth jedi chess" that only Trump was smart enough to understand, just pure narcissistic malice.  Some of Trump's defenders in the media have suggested that Trump deserves the credit for Cruz's victory because Trump campaigned for Cruz recently; at best Trump was merely helping to solve a problem that he had previously created, a problem which could have put the Republican Senate majority at greater risk.


Exactly right.

Quote
To Trump's credit [...]

No credit due. No credit deserved. You said it all in the first paragraph.I will never trust someone with such an obvious character deficit. If he did it once, he will do it again. Watch and see.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: HoustonSam on November 09, 2018, 06:32:13 AM
No credit due. No credit deserved. You said it all in the first paragraph.I will never trust someone with such an obvious character deficit. If he did it once, he will do it again. Watch and see.

Didn't say I trust him, and I agree, he will do the same thing again.  He simply is what he is.

The focus on illegal immigration, reduced regulation, and originalist justices is a good thing.  I won't be surprised if Trump moderates or even abandons these positions in order to "make a great, beautiful deal, the best deal you've ever seen, people are saying" with the new Democrat house majority.  But until he *does* abandon these positions I'll credit him for taking them.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 09:30:16 AM
Yeah. He really blew that election out last night didn't he?
Frank, do you do Abrams math like the loser wins or do you count the votes to see if you have over 50%?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 09:33:01 AM
As a representative and defender of liberty Ted Cruz the best.

But you're right he can't do any good unless he gets elected and stays elected. We need him around for another two or three decades.

There's nothing he can do about his looks. I would hope we as a people were more sophisticated than to vote for looks but thats where we are.

What he can do, IMO, is back off the elevator speech. He's a smart, funny guy and has a great personality. Every now and then you get a glimpse of it but he needs to cultivate it and show it more often.
Well, he can do more than that.

Unlikable people who are defenders of the Constitution and liberty and can win arguments are perfect for lifetime appointments to be federal judges.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 09:35:30 AM
   

   Had Cruz lost by 1 vote, I'd be suicidal, tonight.
No you wouldn't.

You would have cheered as the next candidate for a judicial appointment would have been found.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 09, 2018, 09:37:03 AM
No you wouldn't.

You would have cheered as the next candidate for a judicial appointment would have been found.


No, we would have been stuck with "Beto".  And, that would have been awful.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: roamer_1 on November 09, 2018, 09:47:32 AM
Didn't say I trust him, and I agree, he will do the same thing again.  He simply is what he is.

The focus on illegal immigration, reduced regulation, and originalist justices is a good thing. 

Alas @HoustonSam , I see far less than you do - What I see is all hat and no cattle.

Quote
I won't be surprised if Trump moderates or even abandons these positions in order to "make a great, beautiful deal, the best deal you've ever seen, people are saying" with the new Democrat house majority.  But until he *does* abandon these positions I'll credit him for taking them.

Nor will I be surprised. I expect it.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: HoustonSam on November 09, 2018, 10:16:23 AM
Alas @HoustonSam , I see far less than you do - What I see is all hat and no cattle.

In Trump the man, I certainly agree.

And yet Gorsuch and Kavanaugh actually *do* sit on the SC today.  I credit Trump with no insight or fidelity to originalist principles, indeed I'm sure he has no understanding of any of that.  But he *did* choose from the list of names he was given, and I believe that has moved the court, incrementally, in a desirable direction.

On this issue Trump ordered from the menu without knowing how to prepare the food, but that's all he said he would do.  If the RBG or Breyer seats fall open in the next two years, and Trump is locked in a battle with the Democrats over his personal taxes or some other issue reflecting on his ego as a businessman, I don't put it past him to order off the menu to make a deal.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 09, 2018, 10:33:58 AM
In Trump the man, I certainly agree.

And yet Gorsuch and Kavanaugh actually *do* sit on the SC today.  I credit Trump with no insight or fidelity to originalist principles, indeed I'm sure he has no understanding of any of that.  But he *did* choose from the list of names he was given, and I believe that has moved the court, incrementally, in a desirable direction.

On this issue Trump ordered from the menu without knowing how to prepare the food, but that's all he said he would do.  If the RBG or Breyer seats fall open in the next two years, and Trump is locked in a battle with the Democrats over his personal taxes or some other issue reflecting on his ego as a businessman, I don't put it past him to order off the menu to make a deal.

I don't either.   After all.... getting "the deal" done so he can claim he made ""the best deal evah"" is what I think the main goal with Trump is.  Case in point is the last budget "deal" he made.... funding Planned Parenthood and other leftist agendas.... raising the debt ceiling.....just to avoid a (gasp/shudder) government "shutdown".   If he caves on this next "deal".... his chances in 2020 among Conservatives or Republicans will be cut in half, IMO.  We don't forget as easily or conveniently as the left does.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 10:40:13 AM

No, we would have been stuck with "Beto".  And, that would have been awful.
yes, but still have Senate control.

Do you attribute Beto's place in Senate with superman powers?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: roamer_1 on November 09, 2018, 10:42:48 AM
In Trump the man, I certainly agree.

And yet Gorsuch and Kavanaugh actually *do* sit on the SC today. 

Both 'originalists' come out of Kennedy... If they are crafted in his image, then we have traded a Scalia and a Kennedy for two Kennedys, and a more liberal court.

Quote
If the RBG or Breyer seats fall open in the next two years, and Trump is locked in a battle with the Democrats over his personal taxes or some other issue reflecting on his ego as a businessman, I don't put it past him to order off the menu to make a deal.

Perhaps a chance at a more moderate court if he gets another pick or two... but never a Conservative one. And I quite agree that he is likely to order 'off the menu' which can only be worse.

As for the Heritage list, one should ask why Jim DeMint stepped down, and whether Heritage is as Conservative as it used to be. It seems one cannot trust anyone anymore.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 09, 2018, 10:45:14 AM
yes, but still have Senate control.

Do you attribute Beto's place in Senate with superman powers?

No, I attribute Senators with way too much power though.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 09, 2018, 10:47:03 AM
Both 'originalists' come out of Kennedy... If they are crafted in his image, then we have traded a Scalia and a Kennedy for two Kennedys, and a more liberal court.

Perhaps a chance at a more moderate court if he gets another pick or two... but never a Conservative one. And I quite agree that he is likely to order 'off the menu' which can only be worse.

As for the Heritage list, one should ask why Jim DeMint stepped down, and whether Heritage is as Conservative as it used to be. It seems one cannot trust anyone anymore.  :shrug:

I heard on Glenn Beck, that Mike Lee and Ted Cruz are "in charge" of the list now.  I don't know if that is true or not, but apparently that was an olive branch that Trump extended to Cruz after the campaign. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 09, 2018, 10:59:33 AM
yes, but still have Senate control.

Do you attribute Beto's place in Senate with superman powers?

Considering that Beto is just another radical open borders leftist... all in for impeaching Trump.... yeah.  He would have been a disaster for Texas and for Trump.  He would have been leading the way for RINOs like Collins & Murkowski to jump ship and vote against the Republican agenda.  Does that answer your question?
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: HoustonSam on November 09, 2018, 11:16:03 AM
After all.... getting "the deal" done so he can claim he made ""the best deal evah"" is what I think the main goal with Trump is.

Government as deal-making became a central theme of Trump's 2016 campaign, and of course he still references that theme.  As applied to international trade I'm open to the idea that existing trade agreements might be disadvantageous to the US, and I appreciate fresh eyes scrutinizing those agreements with US interests as a primary concern.

But I also maintain that "deal-making" is what has put the US Federal Government into unmanageable debt - "you vote for my spending, and I'll vote for yours."  Trump's reduction of limited, constitutional government to "deal-making" is one of the reasons he did not enjoy my support during 2016.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 09, 2018, 11:29:39 AM
Government as deal-making became a central theme of Trump's 2016 campaign, and of course he still references that theme.  As applied to international trade I'm open to the idea that existing trade agreements might be disadvantageous to the US, and I appreciate fresh eyes scrutinizing those agreements with US interests as a primary concern.

But I also maintain that "deal-making" is what has put the US Federal Government into unmanageable debt - "you vote for my spending, and I'll vote for yours."  Trump's reduction of limited, constitutional government to "deal-making" is one of the reasons he did not enjoy my support during 2016.

I totally agree.  Ditto that.  Only thing I will add is.... Trump's past leanings and aversion to solid fiscal conservative principles (balancing the budget) is why I was not convinced that he was really serious about beating Hillary... and then, even if he did, what would we be left (pardon pun) with...?  I have been relieved to see him NOT lean or lurch left thus far.   happy77
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: roamer_1 on November 09, 2018, 11:36:05 AM
Government as deal-making became a central theme of Trump's 2016 campaign, and of course he still references that theme.  As applied to international trade I'm open to the idea that existing trade agreements might be disadvantageous to the US, and I appreciate fresh eyes scrutinizing those agreements with US interests as a primary concern.

Would that it were so.
Have you looked at the differences/improvements to NAFTA?

He fluffed it up, and gave unions a foothold in Mexico... whoopee. more winning.  *****rollingeyes*****

Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: HoustonSam on November 09, 2018, 11:41:28 AM
Would that it were so.
Have you looked at the differences/improvements to NAFTA?

He fluffed it up, and gave unions a foothold in Mexico... whoopee. more winning.  *****rollingeyes*****

I didn't mean to assert that he's done a good job here; the honest truth is I'm not following those details closely enough to have an informed opinion.  I'm just saying that I'm open to the idea that existing trade agreements might be disadvantageous to the US and some better "deal-making" might be helpful.

In spite of Trump's much-hyped prowess for dealing, I've never seen anything that suggested he was actually good at it.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 09, 2018, 04:43:25 PM

Here's the audio of Dana Loesch on the Texas election--starts at 40:08.

https://www.spreaker.com/user/10614200/dana110718-pod-full (https://www.spreaker.com/user/10614200/dana110718-pod-full)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 05:15:05 PM
No, I attribute Senators with way too much power though.
Individually, they do not have much power. They are hired to give opinions, which, in the case of someone like Ted Kennedy, can be wrong 99% of the time.

Their main power is when the vote in tandem with others of like mind.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 05:20:49 PM
Considering that Beto is just another radical open borders leftist... all in for impeaching Trump.... yeah.  He would have been a disaster for Texas and for Trump.  He would have been leading the way for RINOs like Collins & Murkowski to jump ship and vote against the Republican agenda.  Does that answer your question?
See http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,338855.msg1841974.html#msg1841974 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,338855.msg1841974.html#msg1841974)

As I said, a Senator's power individually is weak, but comes from voting in concert with others of like mind.

Since Beto would be in a minority position, it is not much power to have had by serving in the Senate.

As far as Collins and Murkowski, these RINOs will do what they wish regardless of whether Beto is a Senator or not.

Right now with the Kavanaugh vote, I would not place Collins in the same category as Murkowski.  Collins came through while the other witch decided to burn some more broth for the stew she foments.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 09, 2018, 05:56:49 PM
See http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,338855.msg1841974.html#msg1841974 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,338855.msg1841974.html#msg1841974)

As I said, a Senator's power individually is weak, but comes from voting in concert with others of like mind.

Since Beto would be in a minority position, it is not much power to have had by serving in the Senate.

As far as Collins and Murkowski, these RINOs will do what they wish regardless of whether Beto is a Senator or not.

Right now with the Kavanaugh vote, I would not place Collins in the same category as Murkowski.  Collins came through while the other witch decided to burn some more broth for the stew she foments.

Valid point... except.... I wouldn't count on Collins to continue to "come through" on other issues, just because she got it right on Kavanaugh.  JS.....
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 09, 2018, 06:05:05 PM
Individually, they do not have much power. They are hired to give opinions, which, in the case of someone like Ted Kennedy, can be wrong 99% of the time.

Their main power is when the vote in tandem with others of like mind.

I'm not sure what your point is.  Individually, they have much more power than you or I do.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 06:56:55 PM
Valid point... except.... I wouldn't count on Collins to continue to "come through" on other issues, just because she got it right on Kavanaugh.  JS.....
I agree.  She is still a suspicious individual.

Thankfully with a bigger majority her power is diminished somewhat.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 09, 2018, 06:58:42 PM
I'm not sure what your point is.  Individually, they have much more power than you or I do.
Sure they do.

But none can make law by themselves as it takes the body of the Senate to do so.

The point is One individual within the body cannot do much by themselves.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 09, 2018, 08:24:19 PM
   400,000 Texans voted for Abbott and not Cruz. 
   Just hard for me to wrap my head around that, as to why???
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 09, 2018, 09:18:21 PM
   400,000 Texans voted for Abbott and not Cruz. 
   Just hard for me to wrap my head around that, as to why???

You know why.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 09, 2018, 09:23:33 PM
   I have my suspicions @Sanguine but I don't feel like whacking that Hornets nest.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: DB on November 09, 2018, 09:27:19 PM
   I have my suspicions @Sanguine but I don't feel like whacking that Hornets nest.

"Lying Ted" is why.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 09, 2018, 09:29:40 PM
"Lying Ted" is why.

That would be my guess.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: dfwgator on November 09, 2018, 09:40:18 PM
   400,000 Texans voted for Abbott and not Cruz. 
   Just hard for me to wrap my head around that, as to why???

Because Beto is just "dreamy".
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: corbe on November 09, 2018, 09:45:51 PM

   Doesn't appear that Cruz had any help from McConnell's NRSC. 

Contributions for 2018.
 
  Name                    Office             Total Contributions
Strange, Luther      (R-AL) Senate               $48,400
Flake, Jeff              (R-AZ) Senate                $47,650
Heller, Dean           (R-NV) Senate                $47,400
Hyde-Smith, Cindy  (R-MS) Senate                $47,400


https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?id=D000036122&chamber=S&party=R&cycle=2018&state=&sort=A (https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?id=D000036122&chamber=S&party=R&cycle=2018&state=&sort=A)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 13, 2018, 09:28:02 AM
   400,000 Texans voted for Abbott and not Cruz. 
   Just hard for me to wrap my head around that, as to why???
And 350,000 more voted for the elected Dem Senator from Arizona than voted for the Republican. 

In a smaller state, that is even more an issue, especially since the victor is someone who hates the citizens of Arizona, and it is the first Dem elected there in 30 years.

Go figure that one out.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/11/how_could_arizona_elect_someone_like_kyrsten_sinema.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/11/how_could_arizona_elect_someone_like_kyrsten_sinema.html)
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 13, 2018, 09:35:40 AM
Valid point... except.... I wouldn't count on Collins to continue to "come through" on other issues, just because she got it right on Kavanaugh.  JS.....

@XenaLee

I’m still shocked she went the right way on that.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 13, 2018, 09:37:35 AM
That would be my guess.

@Sanguine

Which proves there’s a lot of people who can’t think for themselves.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 13, 2018, 09:50:39 AM
@Sanguine

Which proves there’s a lot of people who can’t think for themselves.

But, it is very difficult, @CatherineofAragon.  I work hard to be accurate and get the best understanding of what is going on in our world, but I'm sure I've got a lot of it wrong. Bad information and frequently there is no way to tell what is good information and what is bad.   Not excusing Trump, who had the information to know whether his claims were true or false, and he went with the false anyway.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 13, 2018, 09:57:26 AM
But, it is very difficult, @CatherineofAragonI work hard to be accurate and get the best understanding of what is going on in our world, but I'm sure I've got a lot of it wrong. Bad information and frequently there is no way to tell what is good information and what is bad.   Not excusing Trump, who had the information to know whether his claims were true or false, and he went with the false anyway.
And that is why you are a solid choice to run for political office someday.  You have a conscience.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 13, 2018, 10:08:34 AM
But, it is very difficult, @CatherineofAragon.  I work hard to be accurate and get the best understanding of what is going on in our world, but I'm sure I've got a lot of it wrong. Bad information and frequently there is no way to tell what is good information and what is bad.   Not excusing Trump, who had the information to know whether his claims were true or false, and he went with the false anyway.

@Sanguine

Yep, no argument there.

 Trump’s very good at putting out a message that will sell.  Not everyone follows the campaigns like we do;  when it’s time to vote, they go with the current argument that makes sense or “feels” right.  Trump knew there was a (wrong) perception of Cruz floating around; and he exploited it. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: XenaLee on November 13, 2018, 12:52:47 PM
@XenaLee

I’m still shocked she went the right way on that.

It kind of makes you wonder... doesn't it.  Was/is Kavanaugh the guy we think he is... really?  Does she know something we don't?  Or is it that 'even a stopped watch' factor....?  My curious side thinks about that a lot any or every time someone like her votes our way on someone we believe supports our agenda. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 13, 2018, 06:37:59 PM
And that is why you are a solid choice to run for political office someday.  You have a conscience.

Very nice of you to say and that is something I have considered.  But, I'm pretty sure that I don't want to in the toxic environment that we now have.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Cyber Liberty on November 13, 2018, 08:59:39 PM
Very nice of you to say and that is something I have considered.  But, I'm pretty sure that I don't want to in the toxic environment that we now have.

Uh, yeah.  I'd have to be called for that job.   With a butterfly net.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 13, 2018, 10:19:05 PM
Very nice of you to say and that is something I have considered.  But, I'm pretty sure that I don't want to in the toxic environment that we now have.

@Sanguine  If the finest poster who ever blessed us at TBR runs for something I will move to East Bumble-eff TX and vote for you......or I'll at least hire a bunch of illegals from Austin to do it for me.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 13, 2018, 10:25:06 PM
@Sanguine  If the finest poster who ever blessed us at TBR runs for something I will move to East Bumble-eff TX and vote for you......or I'll at least hire a bunch of illegals from Austin to do it for me.

Thanks, Frank.  Would it be too cynical of me to ask what you want for that?

And, you would have a great time in Austin.  Loosen you up a little bit.  Teach you how to openly express yourself. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 13, 2018, 10:35:01 PM
Thanks, Frank.  Would it be too cynical of me to ask what you want for that?

And, you would have a great time in Austin.  Loosen you up a little bit.  Teach you how to openly express yourself.

A) I am going to illegally fund you through various slush funds to outlaw pantyhose.

B) There is nothing about Austin I would like. Too many Millennial Hipsters. I'm a Vegas guy. 
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Sanguine on November 13, 2018, 10:38:10 PM
A) I am going to illegally fund you through various slush funds to outlaw pantyhose.

B) There is nothing about Austin I would like. Too many Millennial Hipsters. I'm a Vegas guy.

I agree with you about Austin.  Way too many of them there.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: IsailedawayfromFR on November 14, 2018, 08:23:17 AM
I agree with you about Austin.  Way too many of them there.
It didn't use to be that way.  When I grew up there in the 60s I used to shoot jackrabbits on the runway of Robert Mueller Airport at night.  Right next to I35.

Now I would likely be sent to prison for a 10 year stint if caught doing that.

We also had a good football team in town.
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2018, 09:41:29 AM
A) I am going to illegally fund you through various slush funds to outlaw pantyhose.

I HEARD THAT
Title: Re: Sen. Ted Cruz closes campaign with a flurry of attacks on Beto O’Rourke
Post by: GrouchoTex on November 14, 2018, 04:57:49 PM
A) I am going to illegally fund you through various slush funds to outlaw pantyhose.

B) There is nothing about Austin I would like. Too many Millennial Hipsters. I'm a Vegas guy.

Austin, like Vegas, is a nice place to visit but...............