The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on January 08, 2020, 03:33:36 pm
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January 8, 2020
Ukraine airliner crashes shortly after takeoff from Tehran just 3+ hours after the launch of missile attack on bases in Iraq
By Thomas Lifson
The sole death toll from the skies on the night Iran launched its missiles in retaliation for the killing of terror master Soleimani came as an airliner crashed shortly after takeoff from Tehran, killing a reported 176 souls.
Do you believe in coincidences? Do most Iranians? Surely the combination of this air disaster with an earthquake near the Bushehr nuclear facility has some Iranians contemplating Allah’s will.
The mullahs’ government initially blamed the US-built Boeing 737-800 (not the 800 MAX that has been grounded) experiencing technical faults, as Bloomberg reported:
A Boeing Co. 737-800 jetliner bound for Ukraine that crashed after takeoff in Iran, killing everyone on board, was most likely brought down by an engine fire, according to Tehran authorities.
Ukraine International Airlines said 167 passengers and nine crew were on the plane (snip)
Iran’s Disaster Mitigation and Management Organization said early assessments indicate the cause was a technical issue and the transport ministry suggested a fire was to blame, dismissing speculation that the jet was downed by a stray missile following Iranian strikes against U.S. bases in Iraq.
more
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/01/ukraine_airliner_crashes_shortly_after_takeoff_from_tehran_just_3_hours_after_the_launch_of_missile_attack_on_bases_in_iraq.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/01/ukraine_airliner_crashes_shortly_after_takeoff_from_tehran_just_3_hours_after_the_launch_of_missile_attack_on_bases_in_iraq.html)
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The plane didn't crash itself.
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That jet was clearly on fire long before it hit the ground. So it's either an onboard fire that should have resulted in a distress call and evidence of an internally-caused fire, or the Iranians screwed up and shot it down.
My money is on the latter.
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That jet was clearly on fire long before it hit the ground. So it's either an onboard fire that should have resulted in a distress call and evidence of an internally-caused fire, or the Iranians screwed up and shot it down.
My money is on the latter.
So is mine. The Iranians appear to be the gang that can't shoot straight. The missile strikes appear to have inflicted no casualties, several missed the targets entirely and two that did were duds. Now they appear to have panicked and accidentally (I will assume) shot down an airliner (with, it appears, no Americans on board). Pictures on the British internet of the crash appear to show shrapnel holes in the fuselage and wings.
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– 82 Iranians
– 63 Canadians
– 11 Ukrainians
– 10 Swedes
– 4 Afghans
– 3 Germans
– 3 British nationals
https://heavy.com/news/2020/01/ukrainian-plane-crash-victims-nationalities-names/
I have heard a few different figures but a lot of Iranians, that number of Canadians is jaw-dropping too.
Lots of theories around...
Same model, not the same plane though, did suffer some backfiring as this tweet shows (repeated from the other thread) with video.
https://twitter.com/sharonidan/status/1214806866171191306
Ruthen
@RutheniaRus
The tailpipe fire or what it called in the airline industry a back fire, which affect the aircraft turbofan engines is occurring only on ground, during engine start or shutdown.
https://twitter.com/RutheniaRus/status/1214872021034831873
One thing I read this morning was saying, maybe with so many Iranians on board, could they have been targeted over that? Iranians fleeing the regime?? It seems to be a remote possibility among other things.
An amazing amount of Canadians.
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CBC:
World·Updated
63 Canadians among dead after Ukrainian plane crash in Iran, airline says
Cause of Flight PS752 crash unknown, plane goes down minutes after takeoff near Tehran
The Associated Press · Posted: Jan 08, 2020 3:46 AM ET
The latest:
Flight PS752 bound for Kyiv crashes Wednesday morning near airport in Tehran, killing all aboard.
Ukraine International Airline says 167 passengers and 9 crew members were on flight.
Ukraine's foreign minister says total on board includes 63 Canadians.
Victims include residents of Alberta, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia.
Cause of the crash unclear. Officials cited possible mechanical failure before backtracking.
More: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-ukraine-air-crash-canadians-tehran-1.5418610 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-ukraine-air-crash-canadians-tehran-1.5418610)
A National Tragedy for Canada.
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A good number of Iranians fled the country in the late 70s, to escape Khomeini's regime. And a good number of others fled in the 80s to avoid the Iran-Iraq war. Over time, they would have become citizens and had kids in the West, but they still have family in Iran. Probably some of the Canadians were former Iranians or first-generation Canadians.
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A good number of Iranians fled the country in the late 70s, to escape Khomeini's regime. And a good number of others fled in the 80s to avoid the Iran-Iraq war. Over time, they would have become citizens and had kids in the West, but they still have family in Iran. Probably some of the Canadians were former Iranians or first-generation Canadians.
Yes, good reasoning. It does look like some might look like typical Canadians per pictures of some of those in mourning I see.
I have an acquaintance who went to Iran about 3-4 years ago. He took no chances at anything over there. When he logged onto the internet, nothing to arouse the slightest suspicions.
I just talked to someone from Lebanon, he's even a bit afraid of what he writes on the web in that it could be monitored. Lebanon, Hezbollah with a lot of power, how much, I don't know.
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Politics·Updated
Trudeau says plane crash in Iran that killed 63 Canadians will be 'thoroughly investigated'
PM offers 'deepest condolences' to the 176 crash victims
Catharine Tunney · CBC News · Posted: Jan 08, 2020 7:40 AM ET | Last Updated: 3 minutes ago
A Ukraine International Airlines worker reacts during a briefing at Borispil International Airport outside Kyiv on Wednesday. A Ukrainian airplane carrying 176 people crashed on Wednesday shortly after takeoff from Tehran's main airport, killing all aboard. Ukraine's foreign minister says 63 Canadians are among the dead. (Efrem Lukatsky/The Associated Press)
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says Canada will make sure the crash of a Ukraine International Airlines flight Wednesday morning that killed everyone aboard — including 63 Canadians — is "thoroughly investigated."
Trudeau issued a statement this morning offering his condolences to the families of the 176 people on Flight PS752 from Tehran to Kyiv — 167 passengers and nine crew, including Canadian families, academics and students.
"On behalf of the government of Canada, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to those who have lost family, friends, and loved ones in this tragedy. Our government will continue to work closely with its international partners to ensure that this crash is thoroughly investigated and that Canadians' questions are answered," he said.
Read more (over 1100 comments at link) at: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/iran-ukrainian-plane-crash-canada-reaction-1.5418648 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/iran-ukrainian-plane-crash-canada-reaction-1.5418648)
Global News CA:
Canada
At least 5 British Columbians among 63 Canadians killed in Iran plane crash
By Sean Boynton Global News
Posted January 8, 2020 1:22 pm
At least five British Columbians are among the 63 Canadians killed in a devastating plane crash near Iran’s capital, Tehran, early Wednesday morning, including a family of three from Port Coquitlam.
Friends tell Global News that Ardalan Ebnoddin Hamidi, his wife Niloufar Khamsi Razzaghi and their 15-year-old son Kamyar Ebnoddin Hamidi were on the Ukraine International Airlines flight that crashed, killing all 176 people on board.
(https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/41-adalan-ebnoddin-hamidi.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=804)
Ardalan Ebnoddin Hamidi, his wife Niloufar Khamsi Razzaghi and their son Kamyar Ebnoddin Hamidi. Submitted
More: https://globalnews.ca/news/6382065/tehran-plane-crash-bc-victims/ (https://globalnews.ca/news/6382065/tehran-plane-crash-bc-victims/)
Most of these, yes, do look like Iranian-Canadians.
27 Edmontonians killed in Tehran plane crash that claimed 176 lives: community leader
By Karen Bartko Global News
Posted January 8, 2020 9:36 am
...
Ghanimat Azhdari
(https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/ghani-thumb-2.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=600&h=551)
...
More at: https://globalnews.ca/news/6381585/iran-plane-crash-canada-victims/ (https://globalnews.ca/news/6381585/iran-plane-crash-canada-victims/)
So, the Canadian press is usually pretty good imho. Lots on this for those interested.
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I dated an Iranian girl whose family fled Iran when the Shah fell. Really good family, sharp people.
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This guy is Editor-in-chief at @Defence_Blog
Dylan Malyasov @DylanMalyasov
This is my personal view:
Boeing 737-800 flown by Ukraine International Airlines was shot down by Iranian Tor-M1 self-propelled missile system
3:30 PM · Jan 8, 2020
His tweet includes photos of the scene, but I don't know how or whether they support his belief. I also hear that Iran is not handing over the black box.
Many of the Canadians on board were university students, per the Toronto Star:Ontario university students, Alberta family among Iran plane crash victims
By Star Staff
Wed., Jan. 8, 2020
Early Wednesday morning, a passenger jet heading to Ukraine from Iran crashed minutes after taking off in the Iranian capital of Tehran, killing 176 people on board, including 63 Canadians and several people with connections to Canada, according to Ukrainian officials and friends of the victims.
Ukrainian International Airlines has released a list of the passengers on board the plane, which was headed to the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv.
The airline said most passengers were transiting through Kyiv to other destinations. The airline offers an inexpensive connecting flight from Kyiv to Toronto’s Pearson International Airport. ... More (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/01/08/ontario-university-students-alberta-family-among-iran-plane-crash-victims.html?utm_source=twitter&source=torontostar&utm_medium=SocialMedia&utm_campaign=&utm_campaign_id=&utm_content=)
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Ukraine not ruling out terror as cause of deadly plane crash in Iran
By Yaron Steinbuch
January 8, 2020 | 7:31am
Ukraine has walked back its statement that ruled out a terror attack as a cause behind the crash of a Boeing 737 that killed all 176 people aboard shortly after takeoff in Tehran.
“Information on the causes of the plane crash is being clarified by the commission. Any statements regarding the causes of the accident prior to the decision of said commission are not official,†according to a new statement by Ukraine’s embassy in Iran, CNN reports.
Responding to a question about speculation that a rocket downed Flight PS752, Ukrainian Prime Minister Oleksiy Honcharuk said in Kiev: “Any versions before the official conclusion is just manipulation.†... New York Post (https://nypost.com/2020/01/08/ukraine-say-its-not-ruling-out-terror-as-cause-of-deadly-plane-crash-in-iran/amp/)
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If there is a way to blame trump for this the Rats will. Even if Tehran doesn't.
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His tweet includes photos of the scene, but I don't know how or whether they support his belief. I also hear that Iran is not handing over the black box.
@mountaineer
I also read they aren't giving Boeing access to the black boxes. What I read said there were two and one was damaged. It will be interesting what Iran says was the cause of the crash. Sabotage by one of their own probably won't be admitted.
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Tehran plane crash! Ukraine retract engine failure claim: Iran will not give the black box of Ukrainian plane to Boeing: 737 can fly with 1 engine can land with none: Speculation rises
The Big Wobble by by Gary Walton 1/8/2020
http://www.thebigwobble.org/2020/01/ukraine-retract-engine-failure-claim.html (http://www.thebigwobble.org/2020/01/ukraine-retract-engine-failure-claim.html)
Speculation is rising over the cause of the Ukranian 737 crash in Tehran. The passenger jet crashed apparently on fire killing all 170 onboard. Ukraine's Tehran embassy initially blamed engine failure but later removed the statement and in another twist, Iran's civil aviation organization has said that it will not hand the black box over to Boeing from the Ukrainian airlines flight that crashed shortly after taking off from Tehran's Imam Khomeini airport on Wednesday morning. Both black boxes were found Wednesday, Iranian state television has reported. An Iranian official was quoted as saying both boxes were damaged but that it was believed their data could still be retrieved. chunks of the plane's fuselage can be seen peppered with holes.
Can a 737 fly on one engine? Yes, it can.
In fact, it can even take off on one engine. It's a regulatory requirement. That's why the engines are massively overpowered because each engine must be able to continue the fly by itself if the other one fails. It's a safety feature.
Can a 737 land without an engine? Yes, it can.
If both engines fail completely, the aeroplanes can glide to a safe (and not necessarily rough) landing. All airliners are able to do this. Indeed, airliners actually glide to a landing on every normal flight, with the engines set to idle for most of the descent, because that's the most fuel-efficient way to descend. Techwing
Iran says will not give the black box of Ukrainian plane to Boeing
Video footage of the flight shows that it was on fire shortly after taking off, crashing shortly thereafter. All 176 people on board were killed. Iran's civil aviation organization has said that it will not hand over to Boeing the black box of the Ukrainian airlines flight that crashed shortly after taking off from Tehran's Imam Khomeini airport on Wednesday morning. Both black boxes were found Wednesday, Iranian state television has reported. An Iranian official was quoted as saying both boxes were damaged but that it was believed their data could still be retrieved. Jerusalem Post
Ukraine retract engine failure claim
More at link.
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Fox showed video taken by people on the ground of the supposed plane as a fireball crashing to earth....
video here
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-plane-crash-video-appears-to-show-ukraine-international-airlines-boeing-737-on-fire-before-crashing-iran/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iran-plane-crash-video-appears-to-show-ukraine-international-airlines-boeing-737-on-fire-before-crashing-iran/)
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What I read said that flight data suggested the plane was climbing normally for more than a minute to about 8,000 feet when the event occurred.
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What I read said that flight data suggested the plane was climbing normally for more than a minute to about 8,000 feet when the event occurred.
Thanks for that info. I was under the impression they weren't that far up. Helps explain why there were no survivors.
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Ukraine sends search and rescue team to Iran for investigation of PS 752 crash
The Cabinet of Ministers we keep in touch with the relatives of the deceased to hold the DNA analysis
16:48, 8 January 2020
The Cabinet of Ministers made a decision to send the search and rescue team to Iran for holding of joint events on investigation of Boeing-737 crash and repatriation of the bodies of deceased Ukrainians as Prime Minister Oleksiy Honcharuk reported on Telegram.
“We prepare the team for departing flight. Now, we keep in touch with the relatives of the deceased to hold the DNA analysis,†Honcharuk stated.
The plane with Ukrainian specialists of expert and search and rescue teams will fly to Iran on today's evening as President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky reported on Facebook.
More at: https://112.international/ukraine-top-news/ukraine-sends-search-and-rescue-team-to-iran-for-investigation-of-boeing-737-crash-47302.html (https://112.international/ukraine-top-news/ukraine-sends-search-and-rescue-team-to-iran-for-investigation-of-boeing-737-crash-47302.html)
Well, this is good if they will be able to investigate but investigate what? Just matching DNA? Or why the plane went down??
Okay, this Reuters story seems to indicate, they will investigate the accident... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-search-team-idUSKBN1Z7226 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-search-team-idUSKBN1Z7226)
Ukraine to send investigation team to Iran to probe plane crash: Zelenskiy
Ukraine will send a team of experts to Iran later on Wednesday to investigate the circumstances of the crash of an Ukrainian airliner, President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said after meeting government officials.
marry ilona
@marry_ilona
Replying to
@RutheniaRus
Canada will be participating in the investigation. Aviation experts on TV here say they will be involved and Trudeau also confirmed. He will be on national TV in 15 minutes to discuss.
https://twitter.com/marry_ilona/status/1215012351587557377 (https://twitter.com/marry_ilona/status/1215012351587557377)
Trudeau actually does fairly well in situations like this, otherwise, I don't care for him much.
Gossip on twitter I certainly won't fall for but if something looks like it comes from a real source like 112 above, AP, I will go with it.
And the Canadians are largely Iranians, I guess established in Canada, early reports said 144 Iranians on the plane, now, it has been changed to something like 63 Canadians, 82 Iranians, the numbers are close to adding up to 144.
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Ukraine not ruling out terror as cause of deadly plane crash in Iran
By Yaron Steinbuch
January 8, 2020 | 7:31am
Ukraine has walked back its statement that ruled out a terror attack as a cause behind the crash of a Boeing 737 that killed all 176 people aboard shortly after takeoff in Tehran.
“Information on the causes of the plane crash is being clarified by the commission. Any statements regarding the causes of the accident prior to the decision of said commission are not official,†according to a new statement by Ukraine’s embassy in Iran, CNN reports.
Responding to a question about speculation that a rocket downed Flight PS752, Ukrainian Prime Minister Oleksiy Honcharuk said in Kiev: “Any versions before the official conclusion is just manipulation.†... New York Post (https://nypost.com/2020/01/08/ukraine-say-its-not-ruling-out-terror-as-cause-of-deadly-plane-crash-in-iran/amp/)
The black box belongs to the airline not Iran. If Iran shot the plane down by accident they will try to bury the evidence.
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The black box belongs to the airline not Iran. If Iran shot the plane down by accident they will try to bury the evidence.
Exactly.
Iran's reluctance to hand over the black box to Boeing, or any other independent air entitiy for investigation, leads me to believe that Iran shot this thing down, possible accidentally in the heat of battle. If we work the time line, I think this downed plane corresponded to near the same time after we were scrambing jets for a potential response attack.
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I dated an Iranian girl whose family fled Iran when the Shah fell. Really good family, sharp people.
I worked with a guy who left when the Shah was deposed. Armenian ancestry, Methodist by religion, smart, good worker, and all around great guy. Also a crack shot and a good hunter.
He had family over there still. There are still some good people there, living under the Ayatollah's regime.
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The black box belongs to the airline not Iran. If Iran shot the plane down by accident they will try to bury the evidence.
I have little doubt that Iranian forces were on high alert, looking for US air assets to hit their launch sites. It is entirely possible that the Iranians shot down the airliner, but unlikely we'll hear them say so.
If confronted with incontrovertible evidence of such an error, they will either deny that is the case, or trot out some underling and execute him for his crimes.
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Russian missile strike eyed as one of many possible causes that led to plane crash in Iran: Ukraine
https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-passenger-plane-never-radioed-for-help-before-crash-black-boxes-damaged-iranian-investigators-say (https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-passenger-plane-never-radioed-for-help-before-crash-black-boxes-damaged-iranian-investigators-say)
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I have little doubt that Iranian forces were on high alert, looking for US air assets to hit their launch sites. It is entirely possible that the Iranians shot down the airliner, but unlikely we'll hear them say so.
If confronted with incontrovertible evidence of such an error, they will either deny that is the case, or trot out some underling and execute him for his crimes.
There was a Iranian report of a US plane shot down shortly after their missile strike, according to a streaming source I was listening to. It was quickly dropped. I wonder if this wasn't it.
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Russian missile strike eyed as one of many possible causes that led to plane crash in Iran: Ukraine
https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-passenger-plane-never-radioed-for-help-before-crash-black-boxes-damaged-iranian-investigators-say (https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-passenger-plane-never-radioed-for-help-before-crash-black-boxes-damaged-iranian-investigators-say)
Russians never miss a convienient diversion. Will be interesting what Urkranians were on that flight.
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There was a Iranian report of a US plane shot down shortly after their missile strike, according to a streaming source I was listening to. It was quickly dropped. I wonder if this wasn't it.
Precisely the sort of 'fog of war' sort of incident I'd suspect.
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Saw a post somewhere that reported the black boxes were severely damaged in the "crash" and much of the data is missing. The reply to that was:
"A missile strike will do that!"
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Breaking – Dubai News: Iranian Missile Took Down Ukrainian Plane That Exploded After Takeoff From Tehran Airport
(Gateway Pundit) – The first footage was released of Iranian officials at the crash site of the Ukrainian plane that killed at least 170 people.
An Ukrainian Airlines plane carrying 180 passengers and crew crashed tonight just minutes ago after takeoff from Tehran, Iran!
This comes on the same night that Iran fired a dozen missiles at US bases in Iraq.
Al Hadath Dubai News reported a missile took down the Ukrainian flight.
https://outragedpatriot.com/breaking-dubai-news-iranian-missile-took-down-ukrainian-plane-that-exploded-after-takeoff-from-tehran-airport/
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Saw a post somewhere that reported the black boxes were severely damaged in the "crash" and much of the data is missing. The reply to that was:
"A missile strike will do that!"
So will any crash of a jetliner fully loaded with fuel shortly after takeoff. But the circumstances - and especially Iran's refusal to release the black boxes - sure do point to the likelihood that Iran downed the plane, or that there was a bomb on the plane. Why would a plane ascend normally to 8,000 feet and then suddenly explode?
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Kris Van Cleave @krisvancleave
@cbsnews: US officials are confident Ukrainian Flt 752 was shot down by Iran. US intelligence picked up signals of the radar being turned on & satellite detected infrared blips of 2 missile launches, probably SA-15s, followed shortly by another infrared blip of an explosion.
11:27 AM · Jan 9, 2020
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Kris Van Cleave @krisvancleave
The currently thinking is the plane was mistakenly targeted. Remember it took off just hours after Iran launched its missile attack while the world waited to see if the U.S. would respond militarily.
11:37 AM · Jan 9, 2020
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Iranian Missile System Shot Down Ukraine Flight, Probably by Mistake, Sources Say
By Naveed Jamali , James LaPorta , Chantal Da Silva AND Tom O'Connor On 1/9/20 at 11:00 AM EST
The Ukrainian flight that crashed just outside the Iranian capital of Tehran was struck by an anti-aircraft missile system, a Pentagon official, a senior U.S. intelligence official and an Iraqi intelligence official told Newsweek.
Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, a Boeing 737–800 en route from Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airpot to Kyiv's Boryspil International Airport, stopped transmitting data Tuesday just minutes after takeoff and not long after Iran launched missiles at military bases housing U.S. and allied forces in neighboring Iraq. The aircraft is believed to have been struck by a Russia-built Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile system, known to NATO as Gauntlet, the three officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, told Newsweek.
One Pentagon and one U.S senior intelligence official told Newsweek that the Pentagon's assessment is that the incident was accidental. Iran's anti-aircraft were likely active following the country's missile attack, which came in response to the U.S. killing last week of Revolutionary Guard Quds Force commander Major General Qassem Soleimani, sources said. ... Newsweek (https://www.newsweek.com/iranians-shot-down-ukraine-flight-mistake-sources-1481313)
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Kris Van Cleave @krisvancleave
@cbsnews: US officials are confident Ukrainian Flt 752 was shot down by Iran. US intelligence picked up signals of the radar being turned on & satellite detected infrared blips of 2 missile launches, probably SA-15s, followed shortly by another infrared blip of an explosion.
11:27 AM · Jan 9, 2020
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Kris Van Cleave @krisvancleave
The currently thinking is the plane was mistakenly targeted. Remember it took off just hours after Iran launched its missile attack while the world waited to see if the U.S. would respond militarily.
11:37 AM · Jan 9, 2020
Sounds very likely. So Iran's retribution only ended up killing people on their own soil.
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Sounds very likely. So Iran's retribution only ended up killing people on their own soil.
"You're doing it wrong!"
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CBS:
U.S. officials confident Iran shot down passenger jet
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/plane-crash-us-officials-confident-iran-shot-down-passenger-jet-bound-for-ukraine-today-2020-01-09-live-stream-updates/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/plane-crash-us-officials-confident-iran-shot-down-passenger-jet-bound-for-ukraine-today-2020-01-09-live-stream-updates/)
Key takeaway, "by mistake"...
https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1215309657423732737 (https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1215309657423732737)
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Iranian Missile System Shot Down Ukraine Flight, Probably by Mistake, Sources Say
By Naveed Jamali , James LaPorta , Chantal Da Silva AND Tom O'Connor On 1/9/20 at 11:00 AM EST
The Ukrainian flight that crashed just outside the Iranian capital of Tehran was struck by an anti-aircraft missile system, a Pentagon official, a senior U.S. intelligence official and an Iraqi intelligence official told Newsweek.
Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752, a Boeing 737–800 en route from Tehran Imam Khomeini International Airpot to Kyiv's Boryspil International Airport, stopped transmitting data Tuesday just minutes after takeoff and not long after Iran launched missiles at military bases housing U.S. and allied forces in neighboring Iraq. The aircraft is believed to have been struck by a Russia-built Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile system, known to NATO as Gauntlet, the three officials, who were not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, told Newsweek.
One Pentagon and one U.S senior intelligence official told Newsweek that the Pentagon's assessment is that the incident was accidental. Iran's anti-aircraft were likely active following the country's missile attack, which came in response to the U.S. killing last week of Revolutionary Guard Quds Force commander Major General Qassem Soleimani, sources said. ... Newsweek (https://www.newsweek.com/iranians-shot-down-ukraine-flight-mistake-sources-1481313)
Further down in the article:
Images began to circulate Wednesday of what appeared to be fragments of a Tor M-1 missile said to have been found in a suburb southwest of Tehran. Ukraine Security Council Secretary Oleksiy Danylov said Thursday in a statement that contact with a Tor M-1 system was among the potential causes for the plane's destruction that his country was looking into as Ukrainian and Iranian officials met.
Other potential scenarios involved a collision with an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) or another flying object, technical malfunction and a terrorist attack.
The airliner crash was some 3 hours after the missile attacks on US bases, well within the time-frame when Iranian defense personnel would have been on alert and manning AA missile an gun batteries. So it is very possible that Corporal Ima Moroni or Sub-Lieutenant Idi Oti F'ed up.
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Calvin Coolidge @kramerreport
Iran shot down a Ukraine civilian airliner, using a Russian surface-to-air missile. This crash that killed 176 people was no accident.
Iran is helping Russia commit terror against Ukraine.
Who pulled the trigger?
Obama, Jarrett, Brennan, Clinton, Kerry?
It wasn’t Soleimani!
12:17 PM · Jan 9, 2020
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BTW, I forgot to mention in my post above that I think that, regardless of the cause of the airliner crash, it was crazy-negligent for the Iranians to allow airline flights out of their airports after launching their missile attacks. Some senior government official should have wrung up the airports the moment the missiles were launched and ordered a 6-12 hour shutdown of all outgoing flights and then had the shutdown status broadcast to all inbound flights, landing just those few that could not divert.
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BTW, I forgot to mention in my post above that I think that, regardless of the cause of the airliner crash, it was crazy-negligent for the Iranians to allow airline flights out of their airports after launching their missile attacks. Some senior government official should have wrung up the airports the moment the missiles were launched and ordered a 6-12 hour shutdown of all outgoing flights and then had the shutdown status broadcast to all inbound flights, landing just those few that could not divert.
Unless the senior commanders weren't expecting much of a response to a staged "slap in the face" to the Great Satan and didn't want to disrupt the lives of an already unhappy populace.
Where the lower military people/public wouldn't have been told that it was all for show and instead got antsy/trigger happy not knowing what was or wasn't coming.
Ultimately being a miscalculation by their commanders of how their own people would respond to their own apparent escalation.
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Alleged video (New, not the one that many have already seen):
CNW
@ConflictsW
New video that has been positively located to Parand, Iran showing an Iranian Air Defence Missile hitting Ukrainian Airlines flight PS752.
#Iran #Ukraine
https://twitter.com/ConflictsW/status/1215357130628378624
You really do see something here but I'm still not so sure, it could be a video of some other incident.
As said, especially after the MH17 experience in Ukraine, during these hostilities and for a few hours at least, no planes should have been allowed to fly.
Alleged moment of impact, the lower one, the top light seems to be a lamp post seen during the whole video:
CNW
@ConflictsW
2- The Missile impact an object in the sky (PS752) and an explosion is seen
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN3SRe-XsAAvZ61?format=jpg&name=900x900)
https://twitter.com/ConflictsW/status/1215358677504446467
Bellingcat received the video: https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1215352457972404226
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There were no American airliners anywhere near there because the FAA closed that airspace earlier in the day. It is foolish in the extreme for Iran to have allowed any commercial flights in the mist of a time they're looking for American sorties.
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I am going with my own version:
"Lying deceitful muslim Iran, shot down a commercial airliner, intending to blame it on America."
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There were no American airliners anywhere near there because the FAA closed that airspace earlier in the day. It is foolish in the extreme for Iran to have allowed any commercial flights in the mist of a time they're looking for American sorties.
Unless they weren't expecting American sorties at the top level of their government.
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TomSea's video post does like like a missile strike. But we have no real way of knowing if that video is of this particular incident.
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New video shows Iranian missile hitting Ukrainian Airlines Flight 752 before it crashed killing 176 - including 63 Canadians - as Trudeau joins Trump in saying passenger jet may have been brought down 'unintentionally'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7870409/Video-appears-surface-air-missile-hitting-Ukrainian-plane-moments-crashed.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7870409/Video-appears-surface-air-missile-hitting-Ukrainian-plane-moments-crashed.html)
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Let's see.
US kills one Iranian terrorist
Iran retaliates with zero U.S. casualties.
56 Iranians dead after stampede.
176 more civilians dead after Iran shoots down passenger jet.
Bwahahahahahaha
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Not enough posts to get a sticky (meaning discussion will be placed at the top) but if we hit page #3 soon, maybe.
I guess, all the least that can be done for those who perished in this tragedy is to be remembered:
Man who lost 'love of my life' in Iran plane crash plans to keep alive her legacy of caring
'She taught me how to love, how to connect with people and how to open up'
CBC News · Posted: Jan 09, 2020
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5421094.1578607988!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/saba-saadat-daniel-ghods-esfahani.jpg)
Daniel Ghods-Esfahani lost his beloved girlfriend Saba Saadat, as well as her mother and sister, in Wednesday's plane crash in Iran. (Supplied by Daniel Ghods-Esfahani)
Daniel Ghods-Esfahani lost his beloved girlfriend in Wednesday's plane crash in Iran, and says he plans to dedicate his life to ensuring her legacy of caring and kindness continues.
Saba Saadat and her sister, Sara, and their mother, Dr. Shekoufeh Choupannejad were killed when a Ukrainian passenger plane crashed minutes after takeoff from Tehran's international airport.
The sisters were passionate about helping immigrants and people in the LGBTQ community, Ghods-Esfahani said.
...
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.5421040.1578608020!/fileImage/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/original_1180/shekoufeh-choupannejad-doctor-edmonton.JPG)
Dr. Shekoufeh Choupannejad was an obstetrician-gynecologist who worked at the Northgate Centre Medical Clinic in Edmonton. (Supplied by Daniel Ghods-Esfahani)
More at: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-plane-crash-tehran-1.5421009 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-plane-crash-tehran-1.5421009)
Well, I don't know about this caring so much about the LGBQT community but that's their story. Yet, the mother was a gynecologist.
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It sounds like they are saying they will allow Ukraine, Canada and even others, to examine and investigate:
Iran invites other countries to join probe into Ukrainian plane crash
15:00, 09 January 2020
Investigators are studying material evidence from the crash site and documentation, while plane wreckage was collected and moved to a safe place.
Iran has officially invited representatives of other countries to investigate the circumstances and causes of the crash of a Ukraine International Airlines plane crash in Tehran, Iran.
"Abedzadeh said the investigation team, in accordance with the standards provided for in Annex 13 to the Chicago Convention invites all countries that are recognized as beneficiaries of this document to authorize their representatives to participate in the crash investigation and appoint their own special groups," as reported on the website of the Civil Aviation Organization of Iran, citing a statement by its head Ali Abedzadeh.
Abedzadeh also said both "black box" flight recorders had been handed over to the investigators today. The Commission is studying material evidence from the crash site and documentation, while plane wreckage was collected and moved to a safe location.
Read more at: https://www.unian.info/world/10823387-iran-invites-other-countries-to-join-probe-into-ukrainian-plane-crash.html (https://www.unian.info/world/10823387-iran-invites-other-countries-to-join-probe-into-ukrainian-plane-crash.html)
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That jet was clearly on fire long before it hit the ground. So it's either an onboard fire that should have resulted in a distress call and evidence of an internally-caused fire, or the Iranians screwed up and shot it down.
My money is on the latter.
BINGO! Apparently there is now video showing it being struck by an anti-aircraft missile.
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Let's see.
US kills one Iranian terrorist
Iran retaliates with zero U.S. casualties.
56 Iranians dead after stampede.
176 more civilians dead after Iran shoots down passenger jet.
Bwahahahahahaha
That stampede was at Samali's funeral!
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Because this plan was Ukraine Airlines, some people have been looking at a possibility of Russian involvement. I was mainly ignoring this but even Fox News is pointing this out. Also, Why allow planes to fly out of Tehran at this time of 2 or 3 nights ago?
Iran
Russian missile strike eyed as one of many possible causes that led to plane crash in Iran: Ukraine
By Brie Stimson | Fox News
A Ukrainian official said Thursday the country is considering a Russian missile strike as one of several possible causes for a Ukrainian passenger plane crash that happened shortly after the flight took off from Tehran’s international airport early Wednesday morning.
"A strike by a missile, possibly a Tor missile system, is among the main (theories), as information has surfaced on the internet about elements of a missile being found near the site of the crash," Oleksiy Danilov, secretary of Ukraine's Security Council, told media in the country.
Ukraine is waiting for permission from Iran to look for missile debris at the crash site.
More at: https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-passenger-plane-never-radioed-for-help-before-crash-black-boxes-damaged-iranian-investigators-say (https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-passenger-plane-never-radioed-for-help-before-crash-black-boxes-damaged-iranian-investigators-say)
Seems like a reach to me and it goes without saying, you never know though.
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Because this plan was Ukraine Airlines, some people have been looking at a possibility of Russian involvement. I was mainly ignoring this but even Fox News is pointing this out. Also, Why allow planes to fly out of Tehran at this time of 2 or 3 nights ago?
Seems like a reach to me and it goes without saying, you never know though.
While the big night unfolded, I remember hearing our jets were being scrambled after the bombs were launched. Hezbollah tweeted that from near our bases, and i am sure the Iranians got a tad nervous, and were ready to shoot anything out of the sky
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Ukraine says it has gotten 'important data' from US about downed plane in Iran
Ukraine said Friday that it had received "important data" from the U.S. regarding the Kyiv-bound flight that crashed after shortly after taking off from Tehran earlier this week, The Associated Press reports.
Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko tweeted that the data would be “processed by our specialists," but didn't give any further details.
Earlier in the day, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky had asked "all international partners," specifically, U.S., Britain and Canada, to share any information they had on the crash.
Both U.S. and Canada have said that the plane, a Boeing 737-800, was unintentionally shot down with an Iranian surface-to-air missile, a claim that Iranian officials strongly refuted Friday.........
https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/aviation/477652-ukraine-says-it-has-gotten-important-data-from-us-about-downed
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Oh, my. Among the several posts about victims and family of the crash, I noticed the family name of my manager from the 1979-1978 time-frame. He was manager over the test groups for F-14 and A-10 display systems. I lost track of him decades ago and he may no longer be living, but sometimes events like this bring home how interconnected the world has become.
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I am going with my own version:
"Lying deceitful muslim Iran, shot down a commercial airliner, intending to blame it on America."
Then they should have said it was shot down right from the start. They're now stuck with "mechanical difficulties", which nobody apparently is buying.
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Some photos show a Russian missile but with the nose-head still intact, I read somewhere where that part could remain intact because the middle explodes:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EN6xjyYWsAAGERG?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/RFERL/status/1215604179798056963
This system "could" be the one that brought the plane down but we don't know for certain. Also, overnight, I guess, now they are saying 2 missiles may have hit the plane.
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This has been a really bad couple of weeks for Iran.
When was the last time we could credibly say that?
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It seems this will be a big story over the weekend, will sticky and it will be at the top of the forum.
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This is something:
Iran plane crash: Pilot's widow 'urged husband not to fly'
The Ukrainian state security service says it has prioritised a missile attack and terrorism as possible causes of the crash.
Deborah Hayes
Foreign affairs editor @haynesdeborah
Friday 10 January 2020 23:17, UK
The widow of the captain of a Ukrainian passenger jet that crashed in Iran said she had urged her husband not to fly the plane because of security fears in their final conversation.
Katerina Gaponenko told Sky News that she and Volodymyr, who have two young daughters, had expected the flight from Kiev to Tehran and back to be cancelled given the escalating tensions between the US and Iran.
When it was not, she said she felt very worried.
Read more at: https://news.sky.com/story/iran-plane-crash-pilots-wife-warned-husband-not-to-fly-11905590
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BNO News
@BNONews
BREAKING: Iran's military admits shooting down Flight 752, citing 'human error' - AP
9:41 PM · Jan 10, 2020·TweetDeck
https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1215841014159679488 (https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1215841014159679488)
Breaking News Online BNO above reports...
More: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-jetliner-unintentionally-shot-down-1.5423608 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-jetliner-unintentionally-shot-down-1.5423608)
Ukrainian plane was 'unintentionally' shot down, Iran state TV says
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Their position was untenable. There were too many pictures of the wreckage with shrapnel holes, the plane burning in the air, at least one missile striking something in the air and satellite imaging showing the missile launches at the time this occurred to claim otherwise - even though they tried for days - all the while knowing the truth.
I'm starting to wonder if these events set in motion by Trump might be the straw the breaks the camel's back.
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Iran just discovered the Internet age and the consequences of being connected to the world. I wonder if they'll attempt to isolate themselves to prevent these problems in the future and if they do - will their population go along with it?
I also wonder if the people who provided all the images of the crash site, the plane burning in the air and the missile intercept are still alive? They exposed the lies from the highest levels of the Iranian government. I doubt the government cares that it wasn't on purpose. They have to make examples of them.
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Breaking News Online BNO above reports...
More: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-jetliner-unintentionally-shot-down-1.5423608 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/iran-jetliner-unintentionally-shot-down-1.5423608)
Ukrainian plane was 'unintentionally' shot down, Iran state TV says
Top General Killed
Earthquake
Feckless attack on US forces in Iraq
Stampede at Suleimani funeral, 30killed
Shoot down own commerical airliner
What a week for the bad guys......
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Iran had denied for several days that a missile downed the aircraft. But then the U.S. and Canada, citing intelligence, said they believe Iran shot down the aircraft.
The plane, en route to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, was carrying 167 passengers and nine crew members from several countries, including 82 Iranians, at least 63 Canadians and 11 Ukrainians, according to officials.
https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/iran-says-it-unintentionally-shot-down-ukrainian-jetliner-blames-human-error
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Oops. Our bad.
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https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/iran-says-it-unintentionally-shot-down-ukrainian-jetliner-blames-human-error
This is the prime example why these people shouldn't have nuclear weapons.
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Iran: We did it, but it's still the USA's fault. No, wait, that's the current take of American leftists.
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Carlos Osweda @COsweda
Replying to @AP
"Iran had most likely shot down the jetliner with a surface-to-air missile — probably by accident."
No.
All surface-to-air missiles use radar that can see the four-digit code put out by civil-aviation aircraft transponders.
4:42 PM · Jan 10, 2020·
---------------------------
Carlos Osweda @COsweda
Iran has totally centralized armed forces.
Nobody is allowed to do anything on his own initiative.
The Ukrainian airliner was shot down deliberately in an effort to discredit those in the Iranian government working toward regime change.
4:43 PM · Jan 10, 2020
So, not even remotely unintentional, according to this guy.
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The Left of course (as usual), is blaming Trump for Iran's incompetence.
Or was it Bush's fault? Either way, America is somehow to blame for this.
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I guess the Iranians bulldozed the crash site, to destroy the evidence.
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What's with the scorn quotes? Bad though the Iranian regime is, does the headline writer really suspect it was intentional, a decision to whack a particular passenger and rather than just arrest him or her while on the ground in Tehran and do the deed in a prison basement just take out 178 others with the target? And if that's not what it was, and it was really unintentional, does the headline writer suspect that the anti-aircraft battery had a technical fault, rather than it, in fact, being human error?
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Ukraine Wants Compensation After Iran Admits Downing Passenger Jet
Radio Free Europe 1/11/2020
https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-admits-unintentionally-shot-down-ukraine-airliner/30371437.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-admits-unintentionally-shot-down-ukraine-airliner/30371437.html)
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy says his country expects a full probe, a full admission of guilt, and compensation from Iran after Tehran admitted, after days of denial, it accidentally shot down a Ukrainian passenger plane, killing all 176 aboard.
Zelenskiy said "Iran has pleaded guilty to downing the Ukrainian plane. But we insist on a full admission of guilt."
"We expect from Iran assurances of their readiness for a full and open investigation, bringing those responsible to justice, the return of the bodies of the dead, the payment of compensation, official apologies through diplomatic channels," he added.
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Iran admits shooting down Ukrainian airliner, echoes Democrats in blaming US
by Philip Klein
| January 11, 2020 08:52 AM
Iran finally admitted that it shot down a civilian Ukrainian airliner, killing 176 people on board, and is echoing Democrats in blaming the United States for causing the event by escalating tensions.
Iran's foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, in conceding what happened, wrote, "Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster."
more
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/iran-admits-shooting-down-ukranian-airliner-echoes-democrats-in-blaming-u-s (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/iran-admits-shooting-down-ukranian-airliner-echoes-democrats-in-blaming-u-s)
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Ukraine Wants Compensation After Iran Admits Downing Passenger Jet
Radio Free Europe 1/11/2020
https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-admits-unintentionally-shot-down-ukraine-airliner/30371437.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-admits-unintentionally-shot-down-ukraine-airliner/30371437.html)
Good luck finding the remains. Hard to do after they've been buried by bulldozers. The Iranians will just dump it all in a mass grave and be done with it. After all, they're mostly infidels.
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World News
January 11, 2020
Ukraine prosecutor investigating 'willful killing' in Iran plane crash
KIEV (Reuters) - The Ukrainian prosecutor general’s office said on Saturday it is investigating possible willful killing and aircraft destruction in its probe of the crash of a Ukrainian airliner in Iran.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-ukraine-prosecutor/ukraine-prosecutor-investigating-willful-killing-in-iran-plane-crash-idUSKBN1ZA0LH (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-ukraine-prosecutor/ukraine-prosecutor-investigating-willful-killing-in-iran-plane-crash-idUSKBN1ZA0LH)
Yes, they should check that.
Pretty much, a bit on all of the Canadian victims at this link: https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/flightps752/ (https://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/flightps752/)
One of them was actually a student in San Diego so, maybe they were still on holiday break and I believe the San Diego student might have been one of the sisters already posted here.
https://people.com/human-interest/ukraine-plane-crash-victims-iran-san-diego-college-student-mother-sister/ (https://people.com/human-interest/ukraine-plane-crash-victims-iran-san-diego-college-student-mother-sister/)
'It was clearly a war zone': Aviation experts question why Flight PS752 was cleared to fly
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ps752-flight-iran-missile-1.5422912 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ps752-flight-iran-missile-1.5422912)
Exactly, it should not have been flying even.
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I have little doubt that Iranian forces were on high alert, looking for US air assets to hit their launch sites. It is entirely possible that the Iranians shot down the airliner, but unlikely we'll hear them say so.
If confronted with incontrovertible evidence of such an error, they will either deny that is the case, or trot out some underling and execute him for his crimes.
Execution of underlings in 5...4.....3....2......
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Glad they admitted it. Horrible accident.
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Radio Free Europe
https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-admits-unintentionally-shot-down-ukraine-airliner/30371437.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/iran-admits-unintentionally-shot-down-ukraine-airliner/30371437.html)
WATCH: Iranian General Says Commander Had '10 Seconds' To Decide On Shooting Airliner
The statement, reported by state TV earlier on January 11, quoted the military as saying the plane was mistaken for a “hostile target†after it turned toward a “sensitive military center†of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC).
It added that the military was at its “highest level of readiness" amid raised tensions with the United States.
The statement also said those responsible for the tragedy, which killed all aboard the plane, would "immediately" be brought to justice.
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What's with the scorn quotes? Bad though the Iranian regime is, does the headline writer really suspect it was intentional, a decision to whack a particular passenger and rather than just arrest him or her while on the ground in Tehran and do the deed in a prison basement just take out 178 others with the target? And if that's not what it was, and it was really unintentional, does the headline writer suspect that the anti-aircraft battery had a technical fault, rather than it, in fact, being human error?
The several days of blatantly lying before finally saying, "Oh, crap, we got caught!" kind of fuels the suspicion that it was more than an accident. The lies, the proximity to an international airport, that it was a scheduled flight, that it likely was on a known flight path from the airport, these all suggest the people in charge of local air defense need to be asked very pointed questions around the theme, "How could you not know?"
I'm not suggesting it was intentional, but if it was not, there it took a HELL of a lot of ignorance and negligence on the part of quite a few people for it to have happened. One of the questions, to some very high-level people should be, "Why didn't you shut down all major commercial airports as soon as the missiles were launched?" IMO, this looks to have been very preventable.
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WATCH: Iranian General Says Commander Had '10 Seconds' To Decide On Shooting Airliner
The statement, reported by state TV earlier on January 11, quoted the military as saying the plane was mistaken for a “hostile target†after it turned toward a “sensitive military center†of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC).
BS! It was coming from a major international airport, and all but certainly on a standard flight path (runways and take-off paths are typically aligned to an area's prevailing winds). Among other significant clues that it was a commercial flight (automated radio identification, climbing, ...).
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BS! It was coming from a major international airport, and all but certainly on a standard flight path (runways and take-off paths are typically aligned to an area's prevailing winds). Among other significant clues that it was a commercial flight (automated radio identification, climbing, ...).
And filed a flight plan... no excuse.
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And filed a flight plan... no excuse.
The Iranians knew they could just blame Trump and Western media and Rat pols would buy it.
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And filed a flight plan... no excuse.
I'm not suggesting it was intentional - though that is a possibility - but if it was an accident, there was massive incompetence at higher levels that exposed the Ukrainian flight when it should have been grounded and that kept the local battery operators very unaware of the environment they were supposed to be guarding. IOW, massive incompetence by higher ups, but the local battery operators are the ones being hypo-vehiculated.
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Have they ruled out the possibility that it was caused by an offensive video posted on the internet?
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Have they ruled out the possibility that it was caused by an offensive video posted on the internet?
Not enough time to pick just one... :shrug:
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Ukraine demands punishment for Iran plane downing
[AFP]Oleksandr SAVOCHENKO
,AFP•January 11, 2020
Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine on Saturday demanded that Iran punish those guilty for the downing of a Ukrainian airliner and compensate victims while praising Tehran for cooperating with an "objective" investigation.
Ukrainian president Volodomyr Zelensky was due to discuss the incident with his Iranian counterpart President Hassan Rouhani at 5:00 pm local time (1500 GMT), his press office said.
"We expect Iran... to bring the guilty to the courts," the Ukrainian leader wrote on Facebook, calling also for the "payment of compensation" and the return of remains.
Read more at: https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-demands-punishment-compensation-airliner-downed-iran-082828600.html
This must have been President Zelensky delivering this message looking very stern and somber.
Zelensky addressed Ukrainians regarding Boeing 737 crash
Source : 112 Ukraine
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky released a video message after talking with the President of Iran
22:28, 11 January 2020
(https://img.112.international/original/2020/01/11/287739.jpg)
Volodymyr Zelensky
president.gov.ua
President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky addressed Ukrainians regarding the crash of Boeing 737 in Tehran. The press service of the Office of the President reported this.
Zelensky’s address was announced after consultations with a group of Ukrainian experts who work on the site of the tragedy, and with international partners and after a telephone conversation with Iranian President Hassan Rouhani.
"In these difficult days, I want to say the following. I will return all the deceased to their families. They will be able to say goodbye to them. We honor their memory. All those guilty will be punished,†Volodymyr Zelensky told Ukrainians after a telephone conversation with Iranian President Hassan Ruhani.
Read more at: https://112.international/ukraine-top-news/zelensky-addressed-ukrainians-regarding-boeing-737-crash-47407.html?utm_source=Intern&utm_campaign=News&utm_medium=Channel
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Iran plane downing: 'Several people detained' for shooting down airliner
Several people have been detained in Iran over the accidental shooting down of a Ukrainian passenger plane with a missile, the country's judiciary says.
Spokesman Gholamhossein Esmaili said investigations into the incident were continuing, but provided no details.
President Hassan Rouhani said the probe would be overseen by a "special court".
Read more at: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51104687 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51104687)
The Iranian government could be at a "scape-goating" state or this all could be authentic. I saw, they were already talking about some official that they say should have stopped all flights but this doesn't seem to be about him.
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The Iranian government could be at a "scape-goating" state or this all could be authentic. I saw, they were already talking about some official that they say should have stopped all flights but this doesn't seem to be about him.
Governments like Iran do not allow individuals at lower levels to make these sort of decisions. It is hugely unlikely that these missiles were fired without orders from the top or near the top. Iran clearly knew at the highest levels that we were not going to retaliate for their missile launches into Iraq. Not closing their air space is example A. They may have even told us what their plans were in advance to avoid causing a situation that would have required a military response all so they could save some face while quietly deescalating. Basically that being the compromise so that they could/would back down. This was something they could not tell their underlings though, it had to appear that they were attacking the Great Satan and that America didn't nothing. It was for public consumption only.
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The Iranian government could be at a "scape-goating" state or this all could be authentic. I saw, they were already talking about some official that they say should have stopped all flights but this doesn't seem to be about him.
Yeah, I would want to know who is under the bus. If just the battery crew and a couple command levels above the crew, it's cheap scapegoating.
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I've always wondered
Was the missile battery set to AI or auto mode? It may have fired on its own.
Why did IFF not disable the missile from firing?
Did the Ukrainian Airline not respond to a challenge?
Was a challenge ever given? (obviously not)
All the Iranians had to do was to simply ask, 'Identify yourself'.
That's what makes me think it was automatic.
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Was Iranian Missile Operator Tricked Into Shooting Down The Ukrainian Airlines Plane Over Tehran?
Signs of the Times by Joe Quinn 1/13/2020
https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran (https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran)
It's 2am on January 8th 2020 and our guy is sitting in a Tor-M1 air-defense missile system about 10kms north-west of Imam Khomeini international airport, west of Tehran.
By 6am the only thing he can report having seen on his radar screen are each of the 9 scheduled flights that departed the nearby airport that night. He watched them take normal flight paths off the northwest runway, climb into the clear night sky and then veer north or northeast. Since the Tor-M1 system he is operating is fitted with IFF (Identification Friend or Foe) functionality, he could even see their call signs. The second-to-last one was Qatar Airways Flight QR8408 heading for Hong Kong.
The last flight that night would be Ukraine International Airlines Flight PS752 heading for Kiev. It departed one hour late at 6.12am, but followed the exact same initial flight path as the previous flights. As it climbed and reached 4,600ft above ground level, the plane's transponder suddenly stopped working at about 6.14am, 2 minutes or so after take off. The plane then made a sharp right turn heading east and turning back around towards Tehran city, traveling another 15-20kms over 4 minutes before crashing into an area near a football field and exploding on impact.
For some as yet unknown reason, our guy had suddenly become convinced that the Boeing 737 was an 'enemy target'. As per protocol, he had requested authorization to launch, but his superiors could not be reached because of 'some problem with the communication network'. Again according to protocol, he had a 10-second window in which to decide whether to launch or not. Still convinced the 737 was a cruise missile or enemy aircraft, he launched the two missiles that sealed the fate of the 178 people on board.
More at link.
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Was Iranian Missile Operator Tricked Into Shooting Down The Ukrainian Airlines Plane Over Tehran?
Signs of the Times by Joe Quinn 1/13/2020
https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran (https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran)
I didn't think there was any actual evidence the plane turned around. That the "turn around" claim was Iranian subterfuge to cover a "mechanical failure".
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Was Iranian Missile Operator Tricked Into Shooting Down The Ukrainian Airlines Plane Over Tehran?
Signs of the Times by Joe Quinn 1/13/2020
https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran (https://www.sott.net/article/427303-Was-Iranian-Missile-Operator-Tricked-Into-Shooting-Down-The-Ukrainian-Airlines-Plane-Over-Tehran)
I imagine he got tired of blip after blip flying by, and was itching to shoot something, anything. His brothers working the missiles hitting Iraq were having all the fun.
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New Video Shows Two Iranian Missiles Hit Ukrainian Plane
Security camera footage verified by The New York Times shows that two missiles fired 30 seconds apart took down Flight 752, killing all aboard.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/iran-plane-crash-video.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/iran-plane-crash-video.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share)
(I am not registered at NYT, so can't share the story)
Found the story at the NY Post: Iran plan crash: Video shows two military missiles taking down Ukraine plane
By Yaron Steinbuch
January 14, 2020 | 2:46pm
Security camera video shows for the first time that Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 was struck by two missiles fired from an Iranian military site about eight miles away, according to a report.
The New York Times reported that it has verified the footage, which helps explain why the Boeing 737-800’s transponder stopped working seconds before it was struck by a second missile.
An earlier analysis by the newspaper confirmed that an Iranian missile struck the plane shortly after it took off from Tehran en route to the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.
The paper also established that the transponder ceased working before that missile hit the plane.
The latest footage appears to confirm that the first strike disabled the transponder before the second strike — also seen in the video – about 23 seconds later, the Times reported. ...
Link to story and video (https://nypost.com/2020/01/14/iran-plan-crash-video-shows-two-military-missiles-strike-ukraine-plane/)
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New Video Shows Two Iranian Missiles Hit Ukrainian Plane
Security camera footage verified by The New York Times shows that two missiles fired 30 seconds apart took down Flight 752, killing all aboard.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/iran-plane-crash-video.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/iran-plane-crash-video.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share)
(I am not registered at NYT, so can't share the story)
Found the story at the NY Post:Link to story and video (https://nypost.com/2020/01/14/iran-plan-crash-video-shows-two-military-missiles-strike-ukraine-plane/)
I thought it was already settled that Trump forced them to shoot own that airliner. He actually went to Iran and was in the room when they pushed the launch buttons. Said, "Make Iran Glow Again!"
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When the truth hurts, arrest the messenger! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-video/person-who-posted-video-of-missile-striking-ukrainian-airliner-has-been-taken-into-custody-fars-news-idUSKBN1ZD2D9 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-video/person-who-posted-video-of-missile-striking-ukrainian-airliner-has-been-taken-into-custody-fars-news-idUSKBN1ZD2D9)
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When the truth hurts, arrest the messenger! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-video/person-who-posted-video-of-missile-striking-ukrainian-airliner-has-been-taken-into-custody-fars-news-idUSKBN1ZD2D9 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-video/person-who-posted-video-of-missile-striking-ukrainian-airliner-has-been-taken-into-custody-fars-news-idUSKBN1ZD2D9)
Yes, I just heard this myself, amazing.
Iran plane downing: Person who filmed video arrested
Iran says it has arrested the person who filmed the footage showing a Ukrainian passenger plane being shot down by a missile.
It is believed the person being detained will face charges related to national security.
Flight PS752 was brought down after it took off from Tehran on Wednesday, killing all 176 people on board.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51114945 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51114945)
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When the truth hurts, arrest the messenger! https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-video/person-who-posted-video-of-missile-striking-ukrainian-airliner-has-been-taken-into-custody-fars-news-idUSKBN1ZD2D9 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-crash-video/person-who-posted-video-of-missile-striking-ukrainian-airliner-has-been-taken-into-custody-fars-news-idUSKBN1ZD2D9)
No surprise, there, Anyone who ever releases anything that reflects badly on the regime will be punished/silenced/eliminated...
This is also why we have to be careful about releasing what we know/knew, when we knew it, how we knew it, etc., because the nature of the information could cause the source to be killed for divulging it.
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Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRwxALty2s#)
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Get a load of what Heshmat Alavi (born in Iran) says here. I would not know. Maybe some here are more savvy in these matters.
Heshmat Alavi
@HeshmatAlavi
#BREAKING
This video is confirmed to be the Ukraine Int'l Airlines flight #PS752 being shot down by Iran's IRGC.
Considering the 30 seconds between the two SAM missile launches, this was no accident at all as claimed by Tehran.
https://twitter.com/HeshmatAlavi/status/1217220533235912705
Can he make such a claim, "this was no accident", it probably adds to the stew more. I don't get the claim but we will see. To me, it means they aimed two missiles at the plane.
And especially, the Ukrainians, they might be able to figure this out.
I did not post the story but the Ukrainians were saying from their media that they knew days ago, that the plane was shot down. I believe they cited the shrapnel in the photos. They knew but just played along with it. Now what do the Ukrainians or other people in the know say?
Heshmat, imo, jumps the gun, he hates the regime so much.
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The two missiles in the CBS News video clearly climb at two different angles to two different altitudes. The video doesn't show the timing between the two missile launches, but the different angles of climb and altitudes indicate there was significant time between the two launches. What the battery operators knew probably will never be known, but clearly the battery operators intended to bring down the plane.
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The two missiles in the CBS News video clearly climb at two different angles to two different altitudes. The video doesn't show the timing between the two missile launches, but the different angles of climb and altitudes indicate there was significant time between the two launches. What the battery operators knew probably will never be known, but clearly the battery operators intended to bring down the plane.
The time that has been reported between launches is 30 seconds.
Landing speed of a 737 is about 160 MPH, which allows for 1.3 miles of travel in 30 seconds at that speed, which is close to takeoff speed of 166 MPH. That does not account for positive or negative climb rate.
Maneuvering and loss of altitude may have affected the angle from the launcher to the plane as well.
That the second shot was delayed, aimed differently, at the same aircraft, indicates the intent was to bring the plane down.
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This might be worthy of a thread of its own, but it relates to this deadly incident:
How digital sleuths unravelled the mystery of Iran's plane crash (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iran-plane-crash-news)
At first, it seemed like an accident – engine failure was fingered as the cause – until the first video showing the plane seemingly on fire as it weaved to the ground surfaced. United States officials started to investigate, and a more complicated picture emerged. It appeared that the plane had been hit by a missile, corroborated by a second video that appears to show the moment the missile ploughs into the Boeing 737-800. While military and intelligence officials at governments around the world were conducting their inquiries in secret, a team of investigators were using open-source intelligence (OSINT) techniques to piece together the puzzle of flight PS752.
...
So how do they do it? “You can think of OSINT as a puzzle. To get the complete picture, you need to find the missing pieces and put everything together,†says Loránd Bodó, an OSINT analyst at Tech versus Terrorism, a campaign group. The team at Bellingcat and other open-source investigators pore over publicly available material. Thanks to our propensity to reach for our cameraphones at the sight of any newsworthy incident, video and photos are often available, posted to social media in the immediate aftermath of events. ...
OSINT investigators then utilise metadata, including EXIF data – which is automatically inserted into videos and photos, showing everything from the type of camera used to take the images to the precise latitude and longitude of where the taker was standing – to validify that the footage is legitimate. They’ll also try and identify who took the footage, and whether it’s practical for them to have been where they claim to have been at the time. However, for this instance, they couldn’t use EXIF data. “People would share photos and videos on Telegram which strip the metadata ...
Publicly available data such as Google Street View were used to locate where the video was taken, in what direction the person was facing, etc.. Geekasoid lifeforms in action!
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The time that has been reported between launches is 30 seconds.
Landing speed of a 737 is about 160 MPH, which allows for 1.3 miles of travel in 30 seconds at that speed, which is close to takeoff speed of 166 MPH. That does not account for positive or negative climb rate.
Maneuvering and loss of altitude may have affected the angle from the launcher to the plane as well.
That the second shot was delayed, aimed differently, at the same aircraft, indicates the intent was to bring the plane down.
Good info! I was just pointing out that the video could not have been creatively edited to show the same missile firing twice, as if it were two separate firings.
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Iran Jet Disaster Setup: Was Electronic Warfare in Play?
Sign of the Times by Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich & Finian Cunningham 1/15/2020
Questions arise about the improbable timing and circumstances of recording the precise moment when the plane was hit.
Subsequently, Iranian air-defense systems were on high alert for a possible counter-strike by US forces. Several reports indicate that the Iranian defense radars were detecting warnings of incoming enemy warplanes and cruise missiles on the morning of 8 January. It does seem odd why the Iranian authorities did not cancel all commercial flights out of Tehran during that period. Perhaps because civilian airliners can normally be differentiated by radar and other signals from military objects.
However, with the electronic warfare (EW) technology that the United States has developed in recent years it is entirely feasible for enemy military radars to be "spoofed" by phantom objects. One such EW developed by the Pentagon is Miniature Air-Launched Decoy (MALD) which can create deceptive signals on enemy radar systems of incoming warheads.
What we contend therefore is this: the Americans exploited a brink-of-war scenario in which they anticipated Iranian air-defense systems to be on a hair-trigger. Add to this tension an assault by electronic warfare on Iranian military radars in which it would be technically feasible to distort a civilian airliner's data as an offensive target. The Iranian military has claimed this was the nature of the shoot-down error. It seems plausible given the existing electronic warfare used by the Pentagon.
More: https://www.sott.net/article/427443-Iran-Jet-Disaster-Setup-Was-Electronic-Warfare-in-Play (https://www.sott.net/article/427443-Iran-Jet-Disaster-Setup-Was-Electronic-Warfare-in-Play)
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This might be worthy of a thread of its own, but it relates to this deadly incident:
How digital sleuths unravelled the mystery of Iran's plane crash (https://www.wired.co.uk/article/iran-plane-crash-news)
Publicly available data such as Google Street View were used to locate where the video was taken, in what direction the person was facing, etc.. Geekasoid lifeforms in action!
Yeah. Now everyone in the neighborhood can be rounded up and shot.
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Iran Jet Disaster Setup: Was Electronic Warfare in Play?
Sign of the Times by Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich & Finian Cunningham 1/15/2020
Questions arise about the improbable timing and circumstances of recording the precise moment when the plane was hit.
Subsequently, Iranian air-defense systems were on high alert for a possible counter-strike by US forces. Several reports indicate that the Iranian defense radars were detecting warnings of incoming enemy warplanes and cruise missiles on the morning of 8 January. It does seem odd why the Iranian authorities did not cancel all commercial flights out of Tehran during that period. Perhaps because civilian airliners can normally be differentiated by radar and other signals from military objects.
However, with the electronic warfare (EW) technology that the United States has developed in recent years it is entirely feasible for enemy military radars to be "spoofed" by phantom objects. One such EW developed by the Pentagon is Miniature Air-Launched Decoy (MALD) which can create deceptive signals on enemy radar systems of incoming warheads.
What we contend therefore is this: the Americans exploited a brink-of-war scenario in which they anticipated Iranian air-defense systems to be on a hair-trigger. Add to this tension an assault by electronic warfare on Iranian military radars in which it would be technically feasible to distort a civilian airliner's data as an offensive target. The Iranian military has claimed this was the nature of the shoot-down error. It seems plausible given the existing electronic warfare used by the Pentagon.
More: https://www.sott.net/article/427443-Iran-Jet-Disaster-Setup-Was-Electronic-Warfare-in-Play (https://www.sott.net/article/427443-Iran-Jet-Disaster-Setup-Was-Electronic-Warfare-in-Play)
While I can't entirely discount such an idea (we've been spoofing radars since "window" in WWII), the Iranians know we can pretty much keep track of what they are up to.
The idea of drones or other aircraft in the vicinity to eliminate any launch locations as they fire is not completely out of the realm of possibility, but something I consider unlikely--mainly because no launch locations were eliminated.
I think this is just a case of nerves on edge, itchy trigger fingers, and a failure to ensure the safety of civilian air traffic.
Keep in mind, the Ukrainian airliner should have been climbing, originated from the airport, and was heading away. Not exactly the behaviour of a foreign military aircraft attacking. The plane should have had a transponder squawking in the commercial frequencies as ID/locator for the tower.
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Iran Jet Disaster Setup: Was Electronic Warfare in Play?
Sign of the Times by Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich & Finian Cunningham 1/15/2020
Questions arise about the improbable timing and circumstances of recording the precise moment when the plane was hit.
Subsequently, Iranian air-defense systems were on high alert for a possible counter-strike by US forces. Several reports indicate that the Iranian defense radars were detecting warnings of incoming enemy warplanes and cruise missiles on the morning of 8 January. It does seem odd why the Iranian authorities did not cancel all commercial flights out of Tehran during that period. Perhaps because civilian airliners can normally be differentiated by radar and other signals from military objects.
However, with the electronic warfare (EW) technology that the United States has developed in recent years it is entirely feasible for enemy military radars to be "spoofed" by phantom objects. One such EW developed by the Pentagon is Miniature Air-Launched Decoy (MALD) which can create deceptive signals on enemy radar systems of incoming warheads.
What we contend therefore is this: the Americans exploited a brink-of-war scenario in which they anticipated Iranian air-defense systems to be on a hair-trigger. Add to this tension an assault by electronic warfare on Iranian military radars in which it would be technically feasible to distort a civilian airliner's data as an offensive target. The Iranian military has claimed this was the nature of the shoot-down error. It seems plausible given the existing electronic warfare used by the Pentagon.
More: https://www.sott.net/article/427443-Iran-Jet-Disaster-Setup-Was-Electronic-Warfare-in-Play (https://www.sott.net/article/427443-Iran-Jet-Disaster-Setup-Was-Electronic-Warfare-in-Play)
It sounds much more plausible that Iran jammed a wide range of radio communications frequencies on purpose not taking into account that they jammed the reception of the airplane's ID beacon by the antiaircraft battery so they didn't receive a commercial plane ID when it appeared on radar.
Unintended consequences.
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Whoever sott.net is, they seem eager to find a way to blame the US for the airliner being shot down. But they provide zero evidence that bridges the gap between their hypothetical "might" and their ASSumed "did".
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
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Ukrainian Plane Tragedy Challenges Tehran's Narrative Of 1988 U.S. Shoot-Down Of Iranian Airliner
Iran’s unintentional downing of a Ukrainian passenger jet that killed 176 people, including many Iranians, has invoked memories of a similar tragedy: the 1988 U.S. shoot-down of an Iranian plane over the Strait of Hormuz that killed all 290 people on board, including 66 children.
For the past three decades, Iran’s clerical establishment has frequently used that disaster -- which came amid tensions between Tehran and Washington -- as a propaganda tool for what it calls American “state terrorism†and its disregard for human life while suggesting the U.S. Navy's shoot-down of Iran Air Flight 655 was intentional.
But in the wake of the January 8 downing of the Ukrainian airliner due to a “human mistake†by the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC), Tehran’s narrative about the 1988 air tragedy against the United States has been undermined, analysts say.
Read more at: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukrainian-plane-tragedy-challenges-tehran-s-narrative-on-1988-u-s-shoot-down-of-iranian-airliner/30383601.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/ukrainian-plane-tragedy-challenges-tehran-s-narrative-on-1988-u-s-shoot-down-of-iranian-airliner/30383601.html)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vincennes_(CG-49) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Vincennes_(CG-49))
That shoot down was some story in itself....some history is unpleasant, I just try to move forward but I know someone who really gets animated when that topic comes up. Some really have studied it.
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A full investigation hopefully will determine any of these kinds of factors.
Good link by the way, good website, gets a more-or-less, pass from Media Bias Check, and yes, we know how we went through "Media Bias Check" I believe about 2 years ago, they have their own special interests too.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/signs-of-the-times-sott/
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In context, it might take a long time to sue Iran, so Canada is doing this for families in need now. See quote below. It still doesn't seem like much imho... but maybe eventually charities can step in. It will surely, be difficult to sue, prevail and then, collect on Iran, additionally, that will be time consuming.
Justin Trudeau announces $25,000 each for families of Canadians killed in Iran plane crash
The jet operated by Ukraine International Airlines took off from Tehran for Kiev and minutes later disappeared from radar. Iran later admitted that the jetliner was 'accidentally' shot down.
Published: 18th January 2020
..
"I want to be clear: We expect Iran to compensate these families. But I have met them (the families). They can't wait weeks. They need support now," CNN quoted Trudeau as saying during a news conference in Ottawa.
Read more at: https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2020/jan/18/justin-trudeau-announces-25000-each-for-families-of-canadians-killed-in-iran-plane-crash-2091264.html (https://www.newindianexpress.com/world/2020/jan/18/justin-trudeau-announces-25000-each-for-families-of-canadians-killed-in-iran-plane-crash-2091264.html)
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Bodies of Ukrainian Victims Returned Home as Iran Backtracks on Sending Flight Recorders
Sunday, 19 January, 2020 - 13:15
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Meanwhile, the Iranian official leading the investigation into the accident appeared to backtrack Sunday on plans to send the flight recorders abroad for analysis, a day after saying they would be sent to Kiev, the Associated Press reported.
Hassan Rezaeifar was quoted by the state-run IRNA news agency as saying “the flight recorders from the Ukrainian Boeing are in Iranian hands and we have no plans to send them out.â€
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“But as of yet, we have made no decision.†Rezaeifar noted.
Read more at: https://aawsat.com/english/home/article/2090051/bodies-ukrainian-victims-returned-home-iran-backtracks-sending-flight-recorders
So, this is extremely provocative.
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There could be several things on the flight recorders that Iran doesn't want known:
* That the flight's commercial equivalent of IFF was engaged;
* The time between the two missile strikes;
* Communications between the flight crew and the airport and/or military.
IOW, I think the Iranians know the flight recorder will prove either that the Iranians knowingly shot down an airliner or that there was total non-communication between the airport and the military (and/or within the military).
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There could be several things on the flight recorders that Iran doesn't want known:
* That the flight's commercial equivalent of IFF was engaged;
* The time between the two missile strikes;
* Communications between the flight crew and the airport and/or military.
IOW, I think the Iranians know the flight recorder will prove either that the Iranians knowingly shot down an airliner or that there was total non-communication between the airport and the military (and/or within the military).
Almost all commercial flights are tracked by those transponders, even in the US. They identify the aircraft and give other data as well, which helps ATCs in the tower sort them out.
Surely, the transponder was engaged. Communications and flight crew chatter should have been recorded, and the Flight data recorder would at least show the time of the first strike, and if not disabled, the second.
The Iranians know the data is damning, showing massive incompetence and/or negligence in the downing of the flight.
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Almost all commercial flights are tracked by those transponders, even in the US. They identify the aircraft and give other data as well, which helps ATCs in the tower sort them out.
Surely, the transponder was engaged. Communications and flight crew chatter should have been recorded, and the Flight data recorder would at least show the time of the first strike, and if not disabled, the second.
The Iranians know the data is damning, showing massive incompetence and/or negligence in the downing of the flight.
This is somewhat off-topic. I was reading aout the drone strike that killed Suleimani. An expert said they could bring that drone to the airport as a regular flight. Indistinguishable from any other plane. Then bring it in low and fast to make the strike. I've read that maybe there was some electronic hijinks with this commercial flight that could have caused it to be misidentified.
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This is somewhat off-topic. I was reading aout the drone strike that killed Suleimani. An expert said they could bring that drone to the airport as a regular flight. Indistinguishable from any other plane. Then bring it in low and fast to make the strike. I've read that maybe there was some electronic hijinks with this commercial flight that could have caused it to be misidentified.
While I can see the value in disguising a military fight as civilian, I fail to see the utility of disguising a civilian flight as military. :shrug:
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While I can see the value in disguising a military fight as civilian, I fail to see the utility of disguising a civilian flight as military. :shrug:
Depends on the motive and who is putting on the disguise.
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Almost all commercial flights are tracked by those transponders, even in the US. They identify the aircraft and give other data as well, which helps ATCs in the tower sort them out.
Surely, the transponder was engaged. Communications and flight crew chatter should have been recorded, and the Flight data recorder would at least show the time of the first strike, and if not disabled, the second.
The Iranians know the data is damning, showing massive incompetence and/or negligence in the downing of the flight.
Supposedly the Iranians were jamming radio comminications at the time. They could have inadvertantly jammed the flight's transponder from being received making the ID of the plane unavailable to the targetting system.
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Supposedly the Iranians were jamming radio communications at the time. They could have inadvertently jammed the flight's transponder from being received making the ID of the plane unavailable to the targeting system.
A very likely scenario. If there's one thing we know about Persians and Arabs, it is they are fully capable of misusing or abusing their technology. They are children who were given the tech, without having to develop it.
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Very solemn in Ukraine in receiving the bodies of the 11 dead Ukrainians:
(https://gdb.rferl.org/663D97F6-A061-416D-8551-932504402010_w1023_r1_s.jpg)
Mourners arrive for a farewell ceremony in Kyiv on January 19 for the Ukrainian victims of Flight PS572, which was shot down over Tehran last week, killing all on board.
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnctBRpIDHk#)
- More at: Radio Free Europe (https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-live-blog-radio-free-europe-zelenskiy/30114684.html)
Kyiv solemnly meets bodies of Ukrainians from PS752: Photos
Source : 112 Ukraine
The plane was met by top officials and hundreds of ordinary Ukrainians, including relatives of the victims
17:43, 19 January 2020
(https://img.112.international/original/2020/01/19/287859.jpeg)
Official website of the President of Ukraine
See more at: Channel 112 Ukraine (https://112.international/ukraine-top-news/kyiv-solemnly-meets-bodies-of-ukrainians-from-ps752-photos-47652.html)
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Supposedly the Iranians were jamming radio comminications at the time. They could have inadvertantly jammed the flight's transponder from being received making the ID of the plane unavailable to the targetting system.
I'm not saying the Iranians shot down the airliner with malicious intent. Even Tehran knows this would be a worldwide PR disaster, and they are fighting that now.
Not halting civilian flights is the point where the real negligence occurred, especially if they were using a broad spectrum jammer which would mask transponder data from a civilian flight.
It is, however, a sad ending to a multitude, and TFUTEAFU, as military operations go.
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Iran releases investigation report on Ukrainian plane crash
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The retrieved flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder are “some of the most advanced equipment of their kind in the world†and Iran lacks the facilities to decode them. French and U.S. accident investigation agencies have refused to send necessary equipment to Iran for decoding the black boxes.
As reported, a Ukraine International Airlines plane (Flight PS752) heading from Tehran to Kyiv crashed shortly after taking off from the Imam Khomeini International Airport at about 06:00 Tehran time (04:30 Kyiv time) on Wednesday, January 8.
More at: https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/2859737-iran-releases-investigation-report-on-ukrainian-plane-crash.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/2859737-iran-releases-investigation-report-on-ukrainian-plane-crash.html)
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New video shows that 2 missiles struck the Ukrainian plane that crashed in Iran
David Slotnick
Jan 14, 2020, 2:53 PM
A new video shows that two Iranian missiles struck Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 before it crashed near Tehran last week.
The video, which was verified by The New York Times, was uploaded to YouTube by an Iranian user early on Tuesday.
The video shows that the plane continued flying, while engulfed in flames, for a short time after the missiles hit.
https://www.businessinsider.com/video-ukraine-iran-plane-crash-two-missiles-2020-1 (https://www.businessinsider.com/video-ukraine-iran-plane-crash-two-missiles-2020-1)
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New video shows that 2 missiles struck the Ukrainian plane that crashed in Iran
David Slotnick
Jan 14, 2020, 2:53 PM
A new video shows that two Iranian missiles struck Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 before it crashed near Tehran last week.
The video, which was verified by The New York Times, was uploaded to YouTube by an Iranian user early on Tuesday.
The video shows that the plane continued flying, while engulfed in flames, for a short time after the missiles hit.
https://www.businessinsider.com/video-ukraine-iran-plane-crash-two-missiles-2020-1 (https://www.businessinsider.com/video-ukraine-iran-plane-crash-two-missiles-2020-1)
This post from a week ago, http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,388082.msg2128600.html#msg2128600 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,388082.msg2128600.html#msg2128600) , links the original NYT article.
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This post from a week ago, http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,388082.msg2128600.html#msg2128600 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,388082.msg2128600.html#msg2128600) , links the original NYT article.
Thanks, actually, it was posted this morning and I merged into this one but next time, I will give a comment as well so there is no confusion about this. @PeteS in CA
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I think we will unsticky this thread and the IranIII news thread. We can all still participate in those threads.