The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on February 09, 2019, 02:07:51 pm

Title: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: mystery-ak on February 09, 2019, 02:07:51 pm
 Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches

'We’re working the best we can to find that middle ground,' said one of the lead Democratic negotiators.

By HEATHER CAYGLE, SARAH FERRIS and MELANIE ZANONA

02/08/2019 04:14 PM EST


Congressional negotiators say they’re close to reaching a deal to avert a shutdown, with Democrats acknowledging that a final compromise would include funding for border barriers — a concession that could spark rebellion within their party.

Lawmakers and aides, however, said Friday that the conference committee remains several days away from a final border security deal as top spending leaders continued to trade offers back and forth.

Negotiators technically have until Feb. 15 to reach an agreement to stave off another shutdown, but lawmakers insist the practical deadline for any agreement is much earlier in the week.

The current negotiations have narrowed to the most difficult of issues, with Democrats seeking to limit the number of detention beds for undocumented immigrants while Republicans are pushing for the highest funding level for barriers they can get.

more
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/08/border-wall-government-shutdown-1159753 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/08/border-wall-government-shutdown-1159753)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 09, 2019, 02:27:17 pm
Either way, we the taxpayers and all future taxpayers get screwed.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Applewood on February 09, 2019, 03:09:19 pm
So where is Mr. Art of the Deal in all this?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 09, 2019, 03:32:17 pm
So where is Mr. Art of the Deal in all this?

Doesn't he have to see the budget first?  And, if I remember correctly, that is one issue he didn't run on.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Mesaclone on February 09, 2019, 03:36:04 pm
So where is Mr. Art of the Deal in all this?

He's busy getting the wall built (see linked article below)...letting congress reach an agreement to give him more money for that same wall....and next year, he'll get another multi-billion dollar chunk...and the next year...until it is done. Because the man is relentless...it does not mean he wins every battle or crushes it in every negotiation...but in the end he achieves his goal. He has many traits that are not admirable, but his persistence and relentless pursuit of his goals is THE most admirable trait we could have in a GOP president at this point in time.



https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-border-wall-funding-divides-washington-new-multimillion-dollar-barrier-will-soon-break-ground-in-texas (https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-border-wall-funding-divides-washington-new-multimillion-dollar-barrier-will-soon-break-ground-in-texas)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 04:50:47 pm
So where is Mr. Art of the Deal in all this?

I think everybody asked him to butt out.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RetBobbyMI on February 09, 2019, 04:54:38 pm
So where is Mr. Art of the Deal in all this?
He still has a Veto Pen and emergency powers.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Emjay on February 09, 2019, 06:09:46 pm
He's busy getting the wall built (see linked article below)...letting congress reach an agreement to give him more money for that same wall....and next year, he'll get another multi-billion dollar chunk...and the next year...until it is done. Because the man is relentless...it does not mean he wins every battle or crushes it in every negotiation...but in the end he achieves his goal. He has many traits that are not admirable, but his persistence and relentless pursuit of his goals is THE most admirable trait we could have in a GOP president at this point in time.

I agree with your characterization of our President.  He impresses me more and more. 



https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-border-wall-funding-divides-washington-new-multimillion-dollar-barrier-will-soon-break-ground-in-texas (https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-border-wall-funding-divides-washington-new-multimillion-dollar-barrier-will-soon-break-ground-in-texas)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: libertybele on February 09, 2019, 06:44:27 pm
I'm really hoping if Trump doesn't like the 'negotiations' he will veto the bill.  Pelosi has already stated that she will sign whatever they come up with.  So, if she's already in agreement, I'd say it's probably going to be much less than most of us hoped for.

My hunch; 100% DACA amnesty and amnesty for the 11,0000+ already here in exchange for a couple of billion dollars.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 09, 2019, 08:03:31 pm
Either way, we the taxpayers and all future taxpayers get screwed.

I read in New York Times article bollard barriers.  That would be a waste of American Taxpayer money.  No solution.  And we have border cities trying to sue for the razor wire.  Most likely their local governments are controlled by Drug Cartel as it has infiltrated Border Patrol also.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 08:12:30 pm
I read in New York Times article bollard barriers.  That would be a waste of American Taxpayer money.  No solution.  And we have border cities trying to sue for the razor wire.  Most likely their local governments are controlled by Drug Cartel as it has infiltrated Border Patrol also.

I had to Goggle "bollard barriers."  Those would be worse than useless.  Even worse than the "Normandy Barriers" Pelosi brought up before.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Applewood on February 09, 2019, 08:15:43 pm
I think everybody asked him to butt out.

Maybe, especially after that one meeting when he stormed out like a spoiled two-year-old. 

Here's the thing.  As we know from past negotiations, the Republicans give away the store while the Democrats offer nothing.  I would have thought that, with Trump's supposed expertise at deal making, he would at the very least sit down with the Republicans, let them know exactly what is acceptable and what is not and perhaps offer the benefit of his wisdom in deal making so that we don't end up with spending spree bills like the last few. 

We and they have to realize that there will have to be compromise and perhaps Trump will get only some portion of his monetary demand for the wall.  But I was hoping that under Trump's guidance, Republicans would come out of these negotiations with more than just their appendages in their hands.  He should be more involved and it looks like he isn't.  That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 08:25:27 pm
Maybe, especially after that one meeting when he stormed out like a spoiled two-year-old. 

Here's the thing.  As we know from past negotiations, the Republicans give away the store while the Democrats offer nothing.  I would have thought that, with Trump's supposed expertise at deal making, he would at the very least sit down with the Republicans, let them know exactly what is acceptable and what is not and perhaps offer the benefit of his wisdom in deal making so that we don't end up with spending spree bills like the last few. 

We and they have to realize that there will have to be compromise and perhaps Trump will get only some portion of his monetary demand for the wall.  But I was hoping that under Trump's guidance, Republicans would come out of these negotiations with more than just their appendages in their hands.  He should be more involved and it looks like he isn't.  That's all I'm saying.

I fully expect the bolded part has happened, and I don't expect to be told about it publicly.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: bilo on February 09, 2019, 08:31:55 pm
So where is Mr. Art of the Deal in all this?

Let's give it time and see what happens. It's been a rough couple months of ups and downs. I know for me one day I'm behind Trump 100% and the next I think he's sold us out. It's enough to make you crazy.

I think the SOTU speech helped a lot and identifying where the funds will come from to build the wall without declaring a national emergency has also created a pressure on the Rats to agree to something. The Rats are more boxed in than we realize. If Trump exercises his legal authority to divert funds to construction of the wall where law enforcement has identified drug smuggling is incurring the Rats have no legal recourse. I'm sure they can judge shop, but no matter how the media spins it the Rats will be seen as the party that supports drug smuggling and human trafficking.

I suspect the Rats will try to "compromise" with the original amount of 1.7 billion and Trump is going to demand more. If Trump agrees I wonder if he'll use that money in areas that have not been identified as drug smuggling routes and then exercise his executive authority to spend other monies to build the wall in drug smuggling areas.

We will see.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: bilo on February 09, 2019, 08:33:17 pm
He's busy getting the wall built (see linked article below)...letting congress reach an agreement to give him more money for that same wall....and next year, he'll get another multi-billion dollar chunk...and the next year...until it is done. Because the man is relentless...it does not mean he wins every battle or crushes it in every negotiation...but in the end he achieves his goal. He has many traits that are not admirable, but his persistence and relentless pursuit of his goals is THE most admirable trait we could have in a GOP president at this point in time.



https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-border-wall-funding-divides-washington-new-multimillion-dollar-barrier-will-soon-break-ground-in-texas (https://www.foxnews.com/us/as-border-wall-funding-divides-washington-new-multimillion-dollar-barrier-will-soon-break-ground-in-texas)

 :amen:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: libertybele on February 09, 2019, 08:33:29 pm
I read in New York Times article bollard barriers.  That would be a waste of American Taxpayer money.  No solution.  And we have border cities trying to sue for the razor wire.  Most likely their local governments are controlled by Drug Cartel as it has infiltrated Border Patrol also.

There are various different types of bollard barriers.  Obviously some better than others for this purpose.  Certainly not the concrete wall that has been promised, but IF border patrol were to agree that this type of barrier would assist them, then I'd say its a win.  If this barrier is deemed useless by border patrol, then we are wasting the taxpayers money.

https://www.grainger.com/category/security/access-barriers-and-crowd-control/bollards (https://www.grainger.com/category/security/access-barriers-and-crowd-control/bollards)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 09, 2019, 08:35:02 pm
I had to Goggle "bollard barriers."  Those would be worse than useless.  Even worse than the "Normandy Barriers" Pelosi brought up before.

Here is the article

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/us/politics/government-shutdown-deal.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/08/us/politics/government-shutdown-deal.html)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 09, 2019, 08:37:41 pm
There are various different types of bollard barriers.  Obviously some better than others for this purpose.  Certainly not the concrete wall that has been promised, but IF border patrol were to agree that this type of barrier would assist them, then I'd say its a win.  If this barrier is deemed useless by border patrol, then we are wasting the taxpayers money.

https://www.grainger.com/category/security/access-barriers-and-crowd-control/bollards (https://www.grainger.com/category/security/access-barriers-and-crowd-control/bollards)

They use them in New York and other places to stop cars. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 08:52:39 pm
There are various different types of bollard barriers.  Obviously some better than others for this purpose.  Certainly not the concrete wall that has been promised, but IF border patrol were to agree that this type of barrier would assist them, then I'd say its a win.  If this barrier is deemed useless by border patrol, then we are wasting the taxpayers money.

https://www.grainger.com/category/security/access-barriers-and-crowd-control/bollards (https://www.grainger.com/category/security/access-barriers-and-crowd-control/bollards)

They would be good if we had a vehicular invasion problem, but this is pedestrians.  Lots and lots of pedestrians.   They'll just walk around the columns.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 08:53:18 pm
They use them in New York and other places to stop cars.

Precisely.  That's not what we need.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: libertybele on February 09, 2019, 09:01:26 pm
They use them in New York and other places to stop cars.

Ok my thinking; approve the bollards with construction exceptions:  5 ft of concrete wall to support 5 ft. of bollard barrier with barbed-wire at the top?  I don't know, I'm not an engineer.

Right now @Chosen Daughter I am trying to be optimistic. Again, my concern is hoping that there is no language in the bill that allows any kind of amnesty.

I would hope that if the fence is lame and wouldn't do the job, he won't accept it.  His best shot then would be to strike the language that mandates the type of wall, and ask for additional money. The DEMS are going to start with a ridiculously low figure and he knows it. The House bill has to make it through the Senate anyways.

Final call is the President's. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 09:08:09 pm
Jersey Barriers have been suggested, and they won't stop a single illegal alien.  Same for Normandy Barriers and dittos these "Bollard Barriers."

We're not trying to stop vehicles, it's pedestrians, who can just walk around, over or through the kinds I mentioned above.  Sure, we need to stop some vehicles, but the primary invasion is on foot, not mechanized.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 09, 2019, 09:11:00 pm
Maybe, especially after that one meeting when he stormed out like a spoiled two-year-old. 

Here's the thing.  As we know from past negotiations, the Republicans give away the store while the Democrats offer nothing.  I would have thought that, with Trump's supposed expertise at deal making, he would at the very least sit down with the Republicans, let them know exactly what is acceptable and what is not and perhaps offer the benefit of his wisdom in deal making so that we don't end up with spending spree bills like the last few. 

We and they have to realize that there will have to be compromise and perhaps Trump will get only some portion of his monetary demand for the wall.  But I was hoping that under Trump's guidance, Republicans would come out of these negotiations with more than just their appendages in their hands.  He should be more involved and it looks like he isn't.  That's all I'm saying.

According to Nancy Pelosi he stormed out, according to him and his staff he just left when it was clear she wasn't going to negotiate.  Who you gonna believe?   :shrug:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: libertybele on February 09, 2019, 09:12:27 pm
Jersey Barriers have been suggested, and they won't stop a single illegal alien.  Same for Normandy Barriers and dittos these "Bollard Barriers."

We're not trying to stop vehicles, it's pedestrians, who can just walk around, over or through the kinds I mentioned above.  Sure, we need to stop some vehicles, but the primary invasion is on foot, not mechanized.

All of those would have to be reinforced in some way to be effective.

I can't see the President giving approval and I would hope that those type of barriers would be dead in the Senate.  IF Congress continues to play games, then Trump needs to declare a national emergency.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 09, 2019, 09:14:40 pm
All of those would have to be reinforced in some way to be effective.

I can't see the President giving approval and I would hope that those type of barriers would be dead in the Senate.  IF Congress continues to play games, then Trump needs to declare a national emergency.

Reinforced?  They'd have to build a fence around them for them to work.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 09, 2019, 09:49:55 pm
Ok my thinking; approve the bollards with construction exceptions:  5 ft of concrete wall to support 5 ft. of bollard barrier with barbed-wire at the top?  I don't know, I'm not an engineer.

Right now @Chosen Daughter I am trying to be optimistic. Again, my concern is hoping that there is no language in the bill that allows any kind of amnesty.

I would hope that if the fence is lame and wouldn't do the job, he won't accept it.  His best shot then would be to strike the language that mandates the type of wall, and ask for additional money. The DEMS are going to start with a ridiculously low figure and he knows it. The House bill has to make it through the Senate anyways.

Final call is the President's.

I admire your optimism.  If Bollard is in the deal it can't be dressed up as wall.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 09:58:10 pm
Reinforced?  They'd have to build a fence around them for them to work.   :laugh:

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: GrouchoTex on February 09, 2019, 10:06:46 pm
I guess we will all know how this works somewhere between now and Friday.
I'll stay cautiously optimistic that $5B will be there for more walls to be built.
I will be disappointed if it not and is signed, anyway.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 10:14:06 pm
I guess we will all know how this works somewhere between now and Friday.
I'll stay cautiously optimistic that $5B will be there for more walls to be built.
I will be disappointed if it not and is signed, anyway.

You and about 60 Million others will be disappointed. **nononono*
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: edpc on February 09, 2019, 10:23:35 pm
The three day review rule, recently passed in the House, means they’ll probably need to get something done this weekend. An article in Politico summarized it like this...


That makes it all the more likely that Trump will be forced to choose between two unpalatable options: a bipartisan deal served up by lawmakers, or executive action that falls short of an emergency declaration. A more modest executive order has been under review by the White House counsel’s office for weeks, which Mulvaney has termed “legal executive authority.” Both choices are likely to provide much less money than what the president has been demanding for a border wall.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/07/white-house-trump-shutdown-deal-1157829 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/02/07/white-house-trump-shutdown-deal-1157829)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: libertybele on February 09, 2019, 11:07:10 pm
:laugh:

Ok ... well perhaps I'm being too optimistic. Perhas the Senate will take some action and strike the type of barrier and concentrate on the $$$$.  No DACA.  No Amnesty. 

I think we're all hoping that the President stands firm.  We were promised a wall.  A flimsy barrier will be nothing more than a waste of money.

We've gone from a wall, to steel slats to bollards.  We all know that the DEMS don't want any kind of barrier that actually keeps people out. The GOP Senate needs to back this President.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 09, 2019, 11:09:35 pm
They would be good if we had a vehicular invasion problem, but this is pedestrians.  Lots and lots of pedestrians.   They'll just walk around the columns.

“They have unbelievable vehicles.  They make a lot of money. They have the best vehicles you can buy. They have stronger, bigger and faster vehicles than our police have and than ICE has, and the Border Patrol have.”  President Trump  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-signing-ceremony-s-1862-trafficking-victims-protection-reauthorization-act/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-signing-ceremony-s-1862-trafficking-victims-protection-reauthorization-act/)

check out this border footage

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtjGTrVwRr4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtjGTrVwRr4#)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 09, 2019, 11:24:38 pm
“They have unbelievable vehicles.  They make a lot of money. They have the best vehicles you can buy. They have stronger, bigger and faster vehicles than our police have and than ICE has, and the Border Patrol have.”  President Trump  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-signing-ceremony-s-1862-trafficking-victims-protection-reauthorization-act/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-signing-ceremony-s-1862-trafficking-victims-protection-reauthorization-act/)

check out this border footage

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtjGTrVwRr4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtjGTrVwRr4#)

I did not say there was not a problem with vehicles.  There is, but the bigger problem is pedestrian traffic, a euphemism for hiking miles across the desert and pulling up a barbed wire to get in.

I don't care what campaign speech you pull up.  This is why I tend to listen to people living near the southern border, they know better what is needed.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 09, 2019, 11:25:41 pm
I did not say there was not a problem with vehicles.  There is, but the bigger problem is pedestrian traffic, a euphemism for hiking miles across the desert and pulling up a barbed wire to get in.

I don't care what campaign speech you pull up.  This is why I tend to listen to people living near the southern border, they know better what is needed.

Unlike clueless types from Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 10, 2019, 06:13:02 am
I did not say there was not a problem with vehicles.  There is, but the bigger problem is pedestrian traffic, a euphemism for hiking miles across the desert and pulling up a barbed wire to get in.

I don't care what campaign speech you pull up.  This is why I tend to listen to people living near the southern border, they know better what is needed.
Really?

Like CA's rat Governor, 2 rat US Senators, the (46-7) rat majority in the US House of Reps, the (28-10) rat majority in the state senate, or (61-19) rat majority in the state house?

They all said "blow me Trump."

Maybe you mean New Mexico's  rat Governor, 2 rat US Senators, (3-0) rat majority in the US House of Reps, the (26-16) rat majority in the state senate and the (46-24) rat majority in the state house? 

cause they also said "blow me Trump."

Perhaps they are not close enough to the border or perhaps they are unaffected by illegal immigration.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 10, 2019, 06:25:51 am
Really?

Like CA's rat Governor, 2 rat US Senators, the (46-7) rat majority in the US House of Reps, the (28-10) rat majority in the state senate, or (61-19) rat majority in the state house?

They all said "blow me Trump."

Maybe you mean New Mexico's  rat Governor, 2 rat US Senators, (3-0) rat majority in the US House of Reps, the (26-16) rat majority in the state senate and the (46-24) rat majority in the state house? 

cause they also said "blow me Trump."

Perhaps they are not close enough to the border or perhaps they are unaffected by illegal immigration.

Perhaps they have some reason for wanting the border open, like more votes to keep them in office.  Good to know you side with the Rats though.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 10, 2019, 06:29:01 am
Perhaps they have some reason for wanting the border open, like more votes to keep them in office.  Good to know you side with the Rats though.
I side with Christ and the children of God.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 10, 2019, 02:11:04 pm
I side with Christ and the children of God.

That's so holy of you.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 10, 2019, 02:52:27 pm
Perhaps they have some reason for wanting the border open, like more votes to keep them in office.  Good to know you side with the Rats though.

He's right about one thing:  The Rats he described are unaffected by illegal immigration in any bad way.  They have mansions with big walls and gates, and don't care their legal constituents a block over are being robbed and murdered.  You are also correct (more so, actually):  It's about the illegal votes. 

I am amused all his examples are Rats...he clean forgot about TX and AZ.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 10, 2019, 05:05:02 pm
Perhaps they have some reason for wanting the border open, like more votes to keep them in office.  Good to know you side with the Rats though.

Or they are receiving money from the cartels either for their city or for personal gain.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 10, 2019, 05:19:16 pm
I side with Christ and the children of God.

No you don't.  You advocate for illegal immigration.  They come to steal from Americans.  They want free everything.  A person I know recently tried that argument with me.  It must be my Christian background.  But God says we should obey laws.  He also said nobody should have if they don't work.  And immigrants who came to America before mass welfare had to provide for themselves.  The Bible tells us that charity comes from the heart.  It is worthless if given grudgingly.  The government forcing us to pay for this invasion into our country is not charity.  We know for certain that there is a criminal element in these caravans.  I don't want to feed, house and provide for criminals.  Which is exactly what we are doing.  Every day illegal immigrants find their way to our state and Federal prisons where we are forced to pay to house them after they commit crimes against Americans.  These people steal social security numbers.  Their intention is to force Americans to provide for them as they send bundles of cash back to their homelands for their nest eggs.  Meanwhile Americans have no money for the charity work they are called by God to do.  They government increasingly demands more to care for the increased burden of illegal immigration.  It isn't charity it is thievery.  And every illegal immigrant is a criminal.  They have broken the law.  Every one of them.

I would rather give the money stolen from me to provide for illegal immigrants to hospitals caring for children with Cancer.  Or to provide shelter for American families living in the streets after taxes were so high they lost their homes.  Most Latino families live together in homes of more than one family.  They suck the system.

DOJ: 26% of Federal Prisoners Are Aliens

https://cis.org/Huennekens/DOJ-26-Federal-Prisoners-Are-Aliens

 

63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs

Compared to 35% of native households

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Emjay on February 10, 2019, 05:21:01 pm
 22222frying pan
That's so holy of you.

 22222frying pan
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: edpc on February 10, 2019, 05:29:08 pm
Border security talks have not progressed through weekend, growing concern deal won't come together

Border security negotiations, for days considered on the path to a weekend agreement, have not progressed, and members on both sides have started to discuss whether backstop alternatives to prevent another government shutdown are necessary, three sources involved told CNN.

Two of the sources said the talks were ongoing and had not completely fallen apart, but both sides of the talks were considering whether there was a path forward to a broader deal.

The outstanding issues -- the level of funding for border barriers as well as funding increases for detention facilities and personnel -- were not new and have long been the sticking points in the talks. But negotiators on both sides told reporters late last week that they believed they were on the path to resolving the issues.


https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/10/politics/border-security-government-funding/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F (https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/10/politics/border-security-government-funding/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: sneakypete on February 10, 2019, 05:30:13 pm
So where is Mr. Art of the Deal in all this?

@Applewood

Doing what management does. He has given his orders and is allowing his staff to do the negotiating. Once the dust settles,he will step forward and either accept or reject the agreement.

He is not stupid,though. He KNOWS there has to be money to put up part of the wall. The Dims know this too,so they know they can weaken or destroy him if they can manage to not vote for wall money,so they are going to drag it out as long as they can before yielding.  They will never admit it,but they know the majority of the Dim voters,especially the blue collar workers,are as rabidly pro-wall as Trump is,so Trump isn't the only politician that stands to lose if the wall isn't built.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 10, 2019, 05:39:30 pm
@Applewood

Doing what management does. He has given his orders and is allowing his staff to do the negotiating. Once the dust settles,he will step forward and either accept or reject the agreement.

He is not stupid,though. He KNOWS there has to be money to put up part of the wall. The Dims know this too,so they know they can weaken or destroy him if they can manage to not vote for wall money,so they are going to drag it out as long as they can before yielding.  They will never admit it,but they know the majority of the Dim voters,especially the blue collar workers,are as rabidly pro-wall as Trump is,so Trump isn't the only politician that stands to lose if the wall isn't built.

The President also understands the notion if he puts his stamp of approval on anything, it will be shot down by the Rats out of spite.  Someday this will lead to a fatal mistake on their part, because they don't get how this is handing him power over them.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: sneakypete on February 10, 2019, 05:43:11 pm
Reinforced?  They'd have to build a fence around them for them to work.   :laugh:

@Sanguine

Seems to me they would be excellent braces to screw the concrete forms to so the concrete can be poured.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 10, 2019, 05:46:43 pm
Perhaps they have some reason for wanting the border open, like more votes to keep them in office.  Good to know you side with the Rats though.

Not new @RoosGirl !

But you know that already.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 10, 2019, 05:56:19 pm
22222frying pan
 22222frying pan

What's your point, @Emjay ?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: libertybele on February 10, 2019, 07:31:45 pm
No you don't.  You advocate for illegal immigration.  They come to steal from Americans.  They want free everything.  A person I know recently tried that argument with me.  It must be my Christian background.  But God says we should obey laws.  He also said nobody should have if they don't work.  And immigrants who came to America before mass welfare had to provide for themselves.  The Bible tells us that charity comes from the heart.  It is worthless if given grudgingly.  The government forcing us to pay for this invasion into our country is not charity.  We know for certain that there is a criminal element in these caravans.  I don't want to feed, house and provide for criminals.  Which is exactly what we are doing.  Every day illegal immigrants find their way to our state and Federal prisons where we are forced to pay to house them after they commit crimes against Americans.  These people steal social security numbers.  Their intention is to force Americans to provide for them as they send bundles of cash back to their homelands for their nest eggs.  Meanwhile Americans have no money for the charity work they are called by God to do.  They government increasingly demands more to care for the increased burden of illegal immigration.  It isn't charity it is thievery.  And every illegal immigrant is a criminal.  They have broken the law.  Every one of them.

I would rather give the money stolen from me to provide for illegal immigrants to hospitals caring for children with Cancer.  Or to provide shelter for American families living in the streets after taxes were so high they lost their homes.  Most Latino families live together in homes of more than one family.  They suck the system.

DOJ: 26% of Federal Prisoners Are Aliens

https://cis.org/Huennekens/DOJ-26-Federal-Prisoners-Are-Aliens

 

63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs

Compared to 35% of native households

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs

 blij26    :patriot:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Emjay on February 10, 2019, 08:26:09 pm
What's your point, @Emjay ?

I just liked your slap down of that holy than God fake, @RoosGirl
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 10, 2019, 08:41:59 pm
I just liked your slap down of that holy than God fake, @RoosGirl

I rather liked it, too @Emjay, @RoosGirl.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 10, 2019, 08:50:32 pm
blij26    :patriot:

 :patriot:  Thank you.  @Once-Ler is just puking out the liberal talking points.  Nothing new.  Its funny but the person who talked to me about their Christian upbringing is also the one who has said how he hates Christianity.  People try to use God when its convenient for their argument even though they have no knowledge of the Bible at all.  Nor do they care to.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 06:03:54 am
No you don't.  You advocate for illegal immigration. 

I don't.  I just don't think they are a root cause of our problems.  25 Million illegals are a symptom of our strength.

Quote
They come to steal from Americans.


An illiterate and uneducated illegal will never steal my job.  If your job is in danger my sympathies. 

Quote
They want free everything.
 

First off that is a ridiculous statement.  The vast majority want jobs and a safe place to raise their families.  Some illegals exploit our welfare system but I couldn't care less if an illegal or an American sucks up my taxes and exploits the system.  A wall doesn't fix the problem.  I believe ICE could better track down MS13 and terrorists if it wasn't tasked with identifying 25 million unknown people.

Quote
A person I know recently tried that argument with me.  It must be my Christian background.  But God says we should obey laws.


Fantastic.  So when future President AOC legalizes all immigration you will be righteous in celebration because it will be the law.

Quote
He also said nobody should have if they don't work.  And immigrants who came to America before mass welfare had to provide for themselves.

God told you American welfare for Americans? 

Quote
The Bible tells us that charity comes from the heart.  It is worthless if given grudgingly.  The government forcing us to pay for this invasion into our country is not charity.

That is a great argument against the social safety net.  not so good on immigration.

Quote
We know for certain that there is a criminal element in these caravans.  I don't want to feed, house and provide for criminals.  Which is exactly what we are doing.  Every day illegal immigrants find their way to our state and Federal prisons where we are forced to pay to house them after they commit crimes against Americans.  These people steal social security numbers.  Their intention is to force Americans to provide for them as they send bundles of cash back to their homelands for their nest eggs.  Meanwhile Americans have no money for the charity work they are called by God to do.  They government increasingly demands more to care for the increased burden of illegal immigration.  It isn't charity it is thievery.  And every illegal immigrant is a criminal.  They have broken the law.  Every one of them.

Your scapegoating of illegals was masterful.  I pray you get to repeat it for St Peter one day.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 11, 2019, 06:46:51 am
I don't.  I just don't think they are a root cause of our problems.  25 Million illegals are a symptom of our strength.
 

An illiterate and uneducated illegal will never steal my job.  If your job is in danger my sympathies. 
 

First off that is a ridiculous statement.  The vast majority want jobs and a safe place to raise their families.  Some illegals exploit our welfare system but I couldn't care less if an illegal or an American sucks up my taxes and exploits the system.  A wall doesn't fix the problem.  I believe ICE could better track down MS13 and terrorists if it wasn't tasked with identifying 25 million unknown people.
 

Fantastic.  So when future President AOC legalizes all immigration you will be righteous in celebration because it will be the law.

God told you American welfare for Americans? 

That is a great argument against the social safety net.  not so good on immigration.

Your scapegoating of illegals was masterful.  I pray you get to repeat it for St Peter one day.

Where were you born?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 11, 2019, 02:37:21 pm
I don't.  I just don't think they are a root cause of our problems.  25 Million illegals are a symptom of our strength.
 

An illiterate and uneducated illegal will never steal my job.  If your job is in danger my sympathies. 
 

First off that is a ridiculous statement.  The vast majority want jobs and a safe place to raise their families.  Some illegals exploit our welfare system but I couldn't care less if an illegal or an American sucks up my taxes and exploits the system.  A wall doesn't fix the problem.  I believe ICE could better track down MS13 and terrorists if it wasn't tasked with identifying 25 million unknown people.
 

Fantastic.  So when future President AOC legalizes all immigration you will be righteous in celebration because it will be the law.

God told you American welfare for Americans? 

That is a great argument against the social safety net.  not so good on immigration.

Your scapegoating of illegals was masterful.  I pray you get to repeat it for St Peter one day.

No scapegoating just truth.  I will be accountable to Jesus.  Truth is that these people are coming to our country to work and send home bunches of money.  As they suck the American taxpayer.  Not only are they taking jobs, but they steal from Americans who have to pay for their welfare.  There are huge costs from social benefits, education, schools and prison.  These things are not free but are paid for by all of us.  In sanctuary states much of the burden is paid for by property tax.  And many of the people who work in the same manufacturing who's wages have been driven down do have that added burden placed on them.  They are thieves. 

I posted the numbers.  I don't mind being accountable for truth.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 04:07:17 pm
No scapegoating just truth.  I will be accountable to Jesus.  Truth is that these people are coming to our country to work and send home bunches of money.

So what?  What can you buy with US Dollars?  The answer is US goods.

Quote
They are thieves. 

Don't stop there.  Trump says they're rapists, gang members, drug dealers, and killers.  If you're gonna scapegoat 25 million people, go all in.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 11, 2019, 04:18:25 pm
So what?  What can you buy with US Dollars?  The answer is US goods.

Don't stop there.  Trump says they're rapists, gang members, drug dealers, and killers.  If you're gonna scapegoat 25 million people, go all in.

That's exactly what you are doing @Once-Ler.  We're all racists, white supremacists, nationalists, whatever, right?  Oh, and anti-Christian.   
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: skeeter on February 11, 2019, 04:29:51 pm
That's exactly what you are doing @Once-Ler.  We're all racists, white supremacists, nationalists, whatever, right?  Oh, and anti-Christian.

Too late. @Once-Ler's ride is here.

 4444car
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 11, 2019, 04:52:20 pm
So what?  What can you buy with US Dollars?  The answer is US goods.

What?  You can't buy Mexican or Brazilian goods with US dollars?

Sorry, but that's probably one of the most economic illiterate things I've read lately. The US Dollar is (so far) the lead Reserve Currency of the world.  Not going to last forever, but as of now the argument that "US Dollars can only buy US Goods" is specious at best.  I'm not going to say the "at worst" part.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 11, 2019, 04:54:52 pm
Trolls!  :3:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 11, 2019, 05:29:58 pm
So what?  What can you buy with US Dollars?  The answer is US goods.

Don't stop there.  Trump says they're rapists, gang members, drug dealers, and killers.  If you're gonna scapegoat 25 million people, go all in.

LOL  Yeah, they're sending home US Dollars just to take it out of the US economy.  Maybe they're using it for toilet paper or burning for fuel.

bleep liberals.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 06:08:40 pm
That's exactly what you are doing @Once-Ler.  We're all racists, white supremacists, nationalists, whatever, right?  Oh, and anti-Christian.

@Sanguine

That is not how I view you or 99% of this forum.  I think you are wrong for the best of intentions.  I'd like to think you've been lied to and sold one side of the story.  A very stupid story hyped by a very stupid man.

For 18 months I have used a President Trump quote as my tag line...

Quote
No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God.  We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence.  We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.

Racism is evil.  And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans

-President Trump 8/14/17

I have done that believing it is the most beautiful thing I have heard him utter, and knowing that President Trump's words the day before and after 8/14/17 betray he never meant it.

Trump never cared about the wall either.  You did.  Trump signed 8 spending bill before he cost the GOP the House.  No VETO.  No Shutdown, No State of Emergency.

Most illegals enter through legal ports and over stay their VISAs.  A wall solves almost nothing and in the end I expect President Trump will come to understand that, when the rats give him no choice.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 06:12:48 pm
LOL  Yeah, they're sending home US Dollars just to take it out of the US economy. 

Those insidious wetbacks!!! 9999hair out0000  No wonder the interest rates are climbing.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 11, 2019, 06:15:07 pm
@Sanguine

That is not how I view you or 99% of this forum.  I think you are wrong for the best of intentions.  I'd like to think you've been lied to and sold one side of the story.  A very stupid story hyped by a very stupid man.

For 18 months I have used a President Trump quote as my tag line...

I have done that believing it is the most beautiful thing I have heard him utter, and knowing that President Trump's words the day before and after 8/14/17 betray he never meant it.

Trump never cared about the wall either.  You did.  Trump signed 8 spending bill before he cost the GOP the House.  No VETO.  No Shutdown, No State of Emergency.

Most illegals enter through legal ports and over stay their VISAs.  A wall solves almost nothing and in the end I expect President Trump will come to understand that, when the rats give him no choice.

Hmmm, so I'm either a bigot or stupid and uninformed?  Not helping yourself, @Once-Ler

You really think you are the only one here who sees things as they actually are?   

(And, I have taglines unchecked, so I don't see them.)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 06:16:03 pm
What?  You can't buy Mexican or Brazilian goods with US dollars?

Sorry, but that's probably one of the most economic illiterate things I've read lately. The US Dollar is (so far) the lead Reserve Currency of the world.  Not going to last forever, but as of now the argument that "US Dollars can only buy US Goods" is specious at best.  I'm not going to say the "at worst" part.

I agree.  I led with my best argument..."So what?"
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Applewood on February 11, 2019, 06:19:49 pm
@Applewood

Doing what management does. He has given his orders and is allowing his staff to do the negotiating. Once the dust settles,he will step forward and either accept or reject the agreement.

He is not stupid,though. He KNOWS there has to be money to put up part of the wall. The Dims know this too,so they know they can weaken or destroy him if they can manage to not vote for wall money,so they are going to drag it out as long as they can before yielding.  They will never admit it,but they know the majority of the Dim voters,especially the blue collar workers,are as rabidly pro-wall as Trump is,so Trump isn't the only politician that stands to lose if the wall isn't built.

I said in a subsequent post that I had hoped to see Trump's reputed deal making skills on display.  This is a perfect opportunity to apply those skills.  If he can't be in the room with both sides, he should be at least teaching his skills to the Republican negotiators.    Both sides refusing to budge, or worse, the Republicans eventually caving as they always do and ending up with nothing will not be good.  I'm not so sure the wall is the thing for everyone.   A number of people want the threat of another shutdown removed, funding restored and a return to normal.   Both sides have a lot to lose if they can't reach a deal.  This stalemate has to end. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Restored on February 11, 2019, 06:21:19 pm
The Democrats will cheat and then use judges to shut down any wall building.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RetBobbyMI on February 11, 2019, 06:27:38 pm
I said in a subsequent post that I had hoped to see Trump's reputed deal making skills on display.  This is a perfect opportunity to apply those skills.  If he can't be in the room with both sides, he should be at least teaching his skills to the Republican negotiators.    Both sides refusing to budge, or worse, the Republicans eventually caving as they always do and ending up with nothing will not be good.  I'm not so sure the wall is the thing for everyone.   A number of people want the threat of another shutdown removed, funding restored and a return to normal.   Both sides have a lot to lose if they can't reach a deal.  This stalemate has to end.
The stalemate needs to end. I believe the administration has moved more than congress. However that said, I think Trump stands on more moral ground than the Congress not wanting Trump to succeed at the expense of our national security.  What’s wrong with giving him the 5 billion dollars? That’s chump change compared to the pork congress adds to the appropriations. All the Dems want to do is obfuscate and cause trouble for Trump, not solve our country’s issues.  If there is another shutdown, like before, it falls on congress for not doing their job.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 11, 2019, 06:28:43 pm
Those insidious wetbacks!!! 9999hair out0000  No wonder the interest rates are climbing.

Nice redirect.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 11, 2019, 06:30:05 pm
I agree.  I led with my best argument..."So what?"

I was rude to leave that off the quote. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 11, 2019, 06:31:48 pm
The Democrats will cheat and then use judges to shut down any wall building.

That's called "negotiating in bad faith," and I'm sure the President has seen that before in the Private Sector.  How he handles it in government will be interesting to watch.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 06:32:22 pm
Hmmm, so I'm either a bigot or stupid and uninformed?  Not helping yourself, @Once-Ler.

@Sanguine I'm fine with you just accepting you're wrong. :laugh: 

Quote
You really think you are the only one here who sees things as they actually are? 

No.  I expect we are all clouded by what we want to see.  I just didn't want you to think I view you as a racist, white supremacist, nationalist, or anti-Christian.  You may come up with an excuse why I believe a wall is divisive, ineffective, and an expensive roadblock to actual immigration reform, and you do not. 
I hope it is that I hate America, love cheap labor, and I want more rat voters.  That is my favorite. wink777
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 11, 2019, 06:38:41 pm
I'm fine with you just accepting you're wrong. :laugh: 

I can't accept that which isn't.

Quote
No.  I expect we are all clouded by what we want to see.  I just didn't want you to think I view you as a racist, white supremacist, nationalist, or anti-Christian.  You may come up with an excuse why I believe a wall is divisive, ineffective, and an expensive roadblock to actual immigration reform, and you do not. 
I hope it is that I hate America, love cheap labor, and I want more rat voters.  That is my favorite. wink777

You mistake me for someone else. 

I think it is because 1) you live in a place where it isn't a significant problem and you are unable to recognize that it is elsewhere, 2) you are only concerned about problems when they affect you; if it is other's ox being gored, you don't see it as a problem, and 3) your arrogance prevents you from admitting you are wrong and that others may be correct.

And, of course a wall is divisive.  It is supposed to be.  As for ineffective, you continue to ignore the massive amounts of evidence proving that wrong.  As for expensive, it is not a fraction of the expenses we pay to support illegal immigration.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 11, 2019, 06:41:37 pm
@Sanguine I'm fine with you just accepting you're wrong. :laugh: 

No.  I expect we are all clouded by what we want to see.  I just didn't want you to think I view you as a racist, white supremacist, nationalist, or anti-Christian.  You may come up with an excuse why I believe a wall is divisive, ineffective, and an expensive roadblock to actual immigration reform, and you do not. 
I hope it is that I hate America, love cheap labor, and I want more rat voters.  That is my favorite. wink777

I try not to chalk up to malice what could just be different world views.  It's something I sometimes honor in the breach, if you will.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 06:46:12 pm
You mistake me for someone else. 

I think it is because 1) you live in a place where it isn't a significant problem and you are unable to recognize that it is elsewhere, 2) you are only concerned about problems when they affect you; if it is other's ox being gored, you don't see it as a problem, and 3) your arrogance prevents you from admitting you are wrong and that others may be correct.

You're pretty good at this arguing stuff.  Where is @LegalAmerican when I need her?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: corbe on February 11, 2019, 06:52:13 pm
   Had Briefers not chewed up Blue Hammer and spit him out we would still have him around to play with.   /JS
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 11, 2019, 07:03:15 pm
You're pretty good at this arguing stuff.  Where is @LegalAmerican when I need her?

Cute, but don't try to change the subject. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 11, 2019, 07:08:26 pm
Cute, but don't try to change the subject.

I'm out of ammo, so it's your turn again if you want.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 11, 2019, 07:10:05 pm
   Had Briefers not chewed up Blue Hammer and spit him out we would still have him around to play with.   /JS

He bit first, and Briefers are not going to stand for it.  I don't blame our community for his ban-hammer, that lies with him.  He set out to disrupt the Forum for no good purpose.  A rare thing. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 11, 2019, 07:48:12 pm
(https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/map.png)

Please note the "excluding federal costs" part!  That's important!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: libertybele on February 11, 2019, 07:58:18 pm
(https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/map.png)

Please note the "excluding federal costs" part!  That's important!

This is the kind of information that needs to be broadcast across the TV screen in America.  Keep bombarding the public with statistics, interview of border patrol, and other law enforcement.

The cesspool of the U.S.A. (CA) is spending $23 BILLION on illegal immigration yet the idiot governor wants to withdraw troops at the border.  Yeppers, the leftist mental midgets strike once again.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 12:27:34 am
So what?  What can you buy with US Dollars?  The answer is US goods.

Don't stop there.  Trump says they're rapists, gang members, drug dealers, and killers.  If you're gonna scapegoat 25 million people, go all in.

Your right, why stop there?  I am on a roll posting the facts of illegal immigration.  BTW Donald Trump is too! Today I didn't even have to go to a Republican News source to get it.  No, the Democratic idiots are letting us all know that murders in this country by illegals are just a number for them to use.


Why the Trump admin wants more detention space for migrants and Democrats want a limit

ICE is already holding more migrants than Congress authorized. It is authorized to hold 40,000, but there were 49,057 immigrants in detention as of Feb. 6.

Who are these immigrants in ICE detention?

President Donald Trump has repeatedly said ICE is holding dangerous criminals, including murderers. While ICE held immigrants in fiscal year 2018 who collectively were convicted on 54,630 charges, only 1,641 of the charges were homicide. The most frequent charges were for driving under the influence, followed by drug offenses, traffic offenses and immigration offenses (such as re-entering the country after a deportation order.)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/why-ice-wants-more-detention-space-migrants-democrats-want-cap-n970071 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/why-ice-wants-more-detention-space-migrants-democrats-want-cap-n970071)

Get that!  They are murderers.  In a year the liberals say they only killed 1,641 US citizens.   Only!!!!!!  So trivial that they murdered people's loved ones isn't it?  And who cares if they are driving under the influence too.  If they hit someone no big deal.

ONLY, WOW I JUST CAN'T GET OVER THAT.  If it were any of their families do you suppose they would be offended that they were only 1 of 1,641?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 12:32:16 am
This is the kind of information that needs to be broadcast across the TV screen in America.  Keep bombarding the public with statistics, interview of border patrol, and other law enforcement.

The cesspool of the U.S.A. (CA) is spending $23 BILLION on illegal immigration yet the idiot governor wants to withdraw troops at the border.  Yeppers, the leftist mental midgets strike once again.

Wow, just wow!  Poor us. (literally)  West Coast and East Coast Communist loons.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 12:54:41 am
OK lets get this into perspective.  If you divide 1,641 by 50 it comes out to 32.82 murders by illegals per state.  However not all states are equal are they?  No, some people in states like California or Washington might have a better chance of getting killed by and illegal.  It a lottery!  Yeah!!!!!!!!  No really you have a much, much, much better chance of getting murdered by an illegal than winning the lottery.

OK, more perspective.  Illegal immigrants made up about 3.3-3.7% of total US population in 2016.  Oh boy!  Those are huge crime rates for that percentage.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/ (https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 01:04:11 am
OK lets get this into perspective.  If you divide 1,641 by 50 it comes out to 32.82 murders by illegals per state.  However not all states are equal are they?  No, some people in states like California or Washington might have a better chance of getting killed by and illegal.  It a lottery!  Yeah!!!!!!!!  No really you have a much, much, much better chance of getting murdered by an illegal than winning the lottery.

OK, more perspective.  Illegal immigrants made up about 3.3-3.7% of total US population in 2016.  Oh boy!  Those are huge crime rates for that percentage.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/ (https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/)

I guess, then, the BIL I never got to meet won a lottery, of sorts.   9999hair out0000
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 01:18:47 am
I guess, then, the BIL I never got to meet won a lottery, of sorts.   9999hair out0000

Yes.  Imagine all those people running out to spend their money on the lottery and they have a better chance that day to be murdered by an illegal immigrant.  Oh and isn't it a good thing for illegal immigrants that they are going to have to say they are illegal on the census?  Maybe the stats won't look as bad?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 02:51:05 am
ONLY, WOW I JUST CAN'T GET OVER THAT.  If it were any of their families do you suppose they would be offended that they were only 1 of 1,641?

I want murderers detained.  ICE has plenty of beds for them.  I want the other 47,000 with parking tickets released.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 02:57:13 am
I want murderers detained.  ICE has plenty of beds for them.  I want the other 47,000 with parking tickets released.

You didn't watch the video of Trump at the border today with law enforcement did you?  He had a much larger list than I.  Still you didn't address the fact that Trump is right that murderers, rapists, human traffickers, assault, armed robbery..........
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 03:20:22 am
You didn't watch the video of Trump at the border today with law enforcement did you?  He had a much larger list than I.  Still you didn't address the fact that Trump is right that murderers, rapists, human traffickers, assault, armed robbery..........

And you're still wrong that those labels work on all 25 million illegals.  I'm done listening to Trump, but it wouldn't matter if I did hear his "best words."  He's lied to me too often.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 03:24:23 am
And you're still wrong that those labels work on all 25 million illegals.  I'm done listening to Trump, but it wouldn't matter if I did hear his "best words."  He's lied to me too often.

I never took it that way that he meant all 25 million illegals.  Nobody thinks they are all Felony Criminals.  But they all do break the law.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 12, 2019, 03:49:03 am
I never took it that way that he meant all 25 million illegals.  Nobody thinks they are all Felony Criminals.  But they all do break the law.

Yep, otherwise @Once-Ler wouldn't be calling them illegals.

And you're still wrong that those labels work on all 25 million illegals.  I'm done listening to Trump, but it wouldn't matter if I did hear his "best words."  He's lied to me too often.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 03:57:15 am
I never took it that way that he meant all 25 million illegals.  Nobody thinks they are all Felony Criminals.  But they all do break the law.

I speed, often don't bother to wear a seat belt, and possess copy-written music...might as well group me in with murderers and pedophiles with the phrase "and some I suppose are fine people."
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 04:34:12 am
I speed, often don't bother to wear a seat belt, and possess copy-written music...might as well group me in with murderers and pedophiles with the phrase "and some I suppose are fine people."

I think breaking a country's immigration laws is more serious an offense than speeding and not wearing a seat belt.  Now, the Copyright thing...still not as serious as border jumping :whistle:

(I wrote test code for a R&D lab for years, and I take Copyrights and licensing fees very seriously.  I got paid for my work and others deserve the same.)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 04:41:02 am
I think breaking a country's immigration laws is more serious an offense than speeding and not wearing a seat belt.

I don't agree.  As evidence I would point to 25 million illegals living here today and President Trump's demagoguery about them being rapists and murderers.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 12, 2019, 04:51:06 am
I don't agree.  As evidence I would point to 25 million illegals living here today and President Trump's demagoguery about them being rapists and murderers.

The only people I see taking the President's stump speeches literally are people who mock him for it, and would blame him for a sunny day.  "Only the BEST sunny days!"

Meh.   yogi555
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 12, 2019, 04:52:33 am
I don't agree.  As evidence I would point to 25 million illegals living here today and President Trump's demagoguery about them being rapists and murderers.

So 25 million people get a pass because big meanie suggested some of them do worse things than cross the border illegally? 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 05:19:48 am
So 25 million people get a pass because big meanie suggested some of them do worse things than cross the border illegally?
They get a pass because nobody is actually enforcing immigration laws.  When the cops pull over one speeder everybody else slows down on the freeway.  When one guy flys through the fast lane 20 MPH above the speed limit a bunch of people pick him as their pace car.

You want to lock up the murderers, lock up the murders.  You want to solve illegal immigration lock up 25 million.

I prefer we lock up the murderers and find some way to make the 25 million illegals identify themselves, and justify their continued occupation.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 05:25:35 am
The only people I see taking the President's stump speeches literally are people who mock him for it, and would blame him for a sunny day.  "Only the BEST sunny days!"

Meh.   yogi555

Today? sure.  But the first 2 years of campaigning nobody knew how little his word meant or the poor quality of his work ethics.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 12, 2019, 06:18:10 am
I'm starting to think President Fox News/AM Radio will not be happy with this deal.  Can't wait to binge watch it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 01:59:52 pm
I speed, often don't bother to wear a seat belt, and possess copy-written music...might as well group me in with murderers and pedophiles with the phrase "and some I suppose are fine people."

Oh, I agree that many of them are fine people.   But the fact remains that they still come here to work and collect benefits provided by us.  It is wide spread abuse.  The fine people also have enough money to send home, but they don't have enough to feed their families or provide health care.  Its American citizens that make the same amount as many of them that provide that.  So that isn't so fine and a burden on citizens who have to provide for their own families.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 12, 2019, 02:47:08 pm
Oh, I agree that many of them are fine people.   But the fact remains that they still come here to work and collect benefits provided by us.  It is wide spread abuse.  The fine people also have enough money to send home, but they don't have enough to feed their families or provide health care.  Its American citizens that make the same amount as many of them that provide that.  So that isn't so fine and a burden on citizens who have to provide for their own families.

No.  "Fine people" do everything they can to become legal and respect the laws of the country that they are living in and benefiting from.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 12, 2019, 03:00:07 pm
No.  "Fine people" do everything they can to become legal and respect the laws of the country that they are living in and benefiting from.

You are right.  Fine people also provide for their own families and don't look for ways to scam others into raising their families.  Fine people are the ones  who wait in line to come here legally and aren't looking for a free ride.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 01:00:22 am
No.  "Fine people" do everything they can to become legal and respect the laws of the country that they are living in and benefiting from.

If the law makes it impossible to enter the country legally, then you can only enter illegally.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d0010f4f10ed310682383388d98f7211-c)

Thanks for reducing that down to an illegible size @Mod5
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 13, 2019, 01:06:04 am
If the law makes it impossible to enter the country legally, then you can only enter illegally.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d0010f4f10ed310682383388d98f7211-c)

No, you don't enter. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 13, 2019, 01:12:50 am
If the law makes it impossible to enter the country legally, then you can only enter illegally.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d0010f4f10ed310682383388d98f7211-c)

Immigration is for the benefit of the country not the person.  Asylum is for people who are truly in physical danger not because they want to make more money and send extra to the homeland for a nest egg.  I don't even think that gang violence is a reason anymore because we have the same things here.  Many people wait in that long line.  You seem to think that everyone should be able to come without waiting.  Immigration should be for the benefit of the country as well as the immigrant.  What do they have to offer our country?  We have enough low wage workers.  They can apply for H2-b or H1-b.  There are caps for a reason although government has screwed that program up also.  It has been a way for companies to acquire workers at a lower wage.

We don't need any more low wage earners that suck up welfare.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 13, 2019, 01:23:02 am
If the law makes it impossible to enter the country legally, then you can only enter illegally.


You are either an anchor baby or an illegal alien.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 01:24:16 am
We don't need any more low wage earners that suck up welfare.

Great!  Come over and clean my toilets then.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 13, 2019, 01:27:53 am
If the law makes it impossible to enter the country legally, then you can only enter illegally.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d0010f4f10ed310682383388d98f7211-c)

Thanks for reducing that down to an illegible size @Mod5

And yet about 500,000 enter the US legally every year.  Amazing.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 13, 2019, 01:34:03 am
Great!  Come over and clean my toilets then.

Because that's what we want illegal aliens for?  To clean your toilet?  How....enlightened of you.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 13, 2019, 01:39:56 am
Great!  Come over and clean my toilets then.

Clean your own damn toilet. You want to pay a low price for someone to scrub your toilet.  I know a women who has a cleaning businesses.  It might be more than $20.00 an hour but your toilet will be very clean.  The good thing?  The American business is not going to get welfare because they under charged you for your dirty toilet. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 01:46:36 am
Because that's what we want illegal aliens for?  To clean your toilet?  How....enlightened of you.
Yes.  Did you get confused by my response to "We don't need any more low wage earners." Strangely the legal immigrant degreed professional with a job offer wants too much money for the job.  Being enlightened I know this. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 01:48:25 am
Clean your own damn toilet. You want to pay a low price for someone to scrub your toilet.  I know a women who has a cleaning businesses.  It might be more than $20.00 an hour but your toilet will be very clean. 

She employs illegals
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 13, 2019, 01:52:09 am
Yes.  Did you get confused by my response to "We don't need any more low wage earners." Strangely the legal immigrant degreed professional with a job offer wants too much money for the job.  Being enlightened I know this.

What a remarkably leftist point of view. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 01:53:48 am
What a remarkably leftist point of view.
It's not a POV .  It's how the world works.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 13, 2019, 01:55:22 am
It's not a POV .  It's how the world works.

Maybe in your little bubble.  You really ought to get out some.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 02:27:54 am
Maybe in your little bubble.  You really ought to get out some.
That is not a counter argument.  I'll assume you give up.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: GtHawk on February 13, 2019, 02:37:25 am
Yes.  Did you get confused by my response to "We don't need any more low wage earners." Strangely the legal immigrant degreed professional with a job offer wants too much money for the job.  Being enlightened I know this.
If I recall what I have seen, you don't live where there are any number of illegals that could bet termed other than almost non existent, so I guess that is why you haven't a clue to what illegals demand to be payed tax free I might add. No, we don't need any more damn illegal immigrant low wage earners that have almost completely eliminated the stater jobs of our teenagers. We have illegals and illiterates that have taken almost all those jobs and then cry that they can't raise a family on minimum wage working a job at a skill level that was never meant to do more than train new entries into the job market while putting a little cash in their pockets. Me, speaking for myself only, am fed up with not being able to be understood or understand a freaking counter person at a fast food restaurant., and I ran fast food and food operations for twenty five years. I experienced personally the transition from housewives and teens to almost all Hispanic as our teens were told by almost everyone that fast food was trash work. I also worked construction for fifteen years and saw the Hispanic influence take hold. My SIL is a foreman for a large contractor putting up those large multi use high rises in Los Angeles so I hear about what is still going on.

So to put it bluntly, I don't believe you have any idea what your pushing.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 13, 2019, 02:48:27 am
That is not a counter argument.  I'll assume you give up.

Do whatever you want. 
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 04:34:50 am
If I recall what I have seen, you don't live where there are any number of illegals that could bet termed other than almost non existent, so I guess that is why you haven't a clue to what illegals demand to be payed tax free I might add.

80,000 non existent illegals in WI.  1.3% of the population.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/immigrants_in_wisconsin.pdf (https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/immigrants_in_wisconsin.pdf)

I have a family member who works here.

(https://isthmus.com/downloads/52641/download/News-ICE-raid-sign_crJoeTarr09272018.jpg?)

https://isthmus.com/news/news/ice-arrests-83-immigrants-in-wisconsin-in-enforcement-surge/ (https://isthmus.com/news/news/ice-arrests-83-immigrants-in-wisconsin-in-enforcement-surge/)

Why is ICE in WI? 

Quote
No, we don't need any more damn illegal immigrant low wage earners that have almost completely eliminated the stater jobs of our teenagers. We have illegals and illiterates that have taken almost all those jobs and then cry that they can't raise a family on minimum wage working a job at a skill level that was never meant to do more than train new entries into the job market while putting a little cash in their pockets.

Teenagers don't work jobs.  They have after school activities.  Most businesses would gladly hire a legal worker at minimum wage for jobs illiterate illegals can perform.  It's not here yet but technology will eliminate many service jobs eventually. 
My bank has a ATM- no bank teller
My grocer has a self checkout line - no bagboy or cashier
McDonalds has a order kiosk - no cashier
Little Caesers has a machine that makes pizzas nearly start to finish - no food preparers
Nearly every fast food or chain restaurant have phone apps to order and pay for food - fewer waitress's and hosts
Bookstores, parts stores, clothing stores, and more are being replace by the internet - fewer construction workers to build stores almost no employees to sell, maintain, or display products.

This is going to be a big problem in our service economy.  With the exception of bagboys and construction workers these service workers need to speak English.  Their jobs are disappearing.

Service areas that don't require literacy are construction, food prep, janitorial, and some auto repair.

Quote
Me, speaking for myself only, am fed up with not being able to be understood or understand a freaking counter person at a fast food restaurant., and I ran fast food and food operations for twenty five years. I experienced personally the transition from housewives and teens to almost all Hispanic as our teens were told by almost everyone that fast food was trash work.

In 1996 President Clinton and the GOP Congress passed sweeping changes to AFDC, influenced by WI Governor Tommy Thompson's Welfare to Work or W2 program.  Gov Thompson's W2 program required you actually had to have a job to receive assistance from the state.  Around that time I worked for a telemarketing company.  They hired a fat welfare mom because she was black and it helped protect them from a racial discrimination suit after she would inevitably be fired.  The job was easy.  A computer screen provided name and address as well as other information.  A script to read was provided and any moron that could read could return to work the next day and even make a marginally better wage than minimum...and while sitting in air-conditioned comfort and reading what ever between calls.  A special magnifying screen was built because she claimed sight problems and President Bush(41) passed a disability law.

I have never laughed as heartily as the moment she took her first call and said...

Hello.  Is 'w' 'i' 'l' 'l' 'i' 'a' 'm' at home?  I mean she literally spelled out the name William.

Business will not build special monitors and teach Americans to read.  They will eliminate the low skill jobs with tech, and if they still can't find labor in a 4% unemployed economy they will eliminate expansion and let foreign markets take up the slack.

I believe a high percentage of that 4% are drug addicts, violent criminals, people with poor work attendance or hygiene, and Trump voters.  If I owned a business I might prefer to employ a better than average illegal if I could get away with it.

Quote
I also worked construction for fifteen years and saw the Hispanic influence take hold. My SIL is a foreman for a large contractor putting up those large multi use high rises in Los Angeles so I hear about what is still going on.

There is no doubt about it.  Americans pound nails better than Mexicans./ sarc

Quote
So to put it bluntly, I don't believe you have any idea what your pushing.

You sound like my Mom. 
I got to say I enjoyed your reply.  It was substantive, clear, and provocative without being personally insulting.  I hope my reply lives up to that standard.  Thank you for taking the time to help me understand your point of view.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 13, 2019, 04:47:22 am
80,000 non existent illegals in WI.  1.3% of the population.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/immigrants_in_wisconsin.pdf (https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/immigrants_in_wisconsin.pdf)

I have a family member who works here.

(https://isthmus.com/downloads/52641/download/News-ICE-raid-sign_crJoeTarr09272018.jpg?)

https://isthmus.com/news/news/ice-arrests-83-immigrants-in-wisconsin-in-enforcement-surge/ (https://isthmus.com/news/news/ice-arrests-83-immigrants-in-wisconsin-in-enforcement-surge/)

Why is ICE in WI? 

Teenagers don't work jobs.  They have after school activities.  Most businesses would gladly hire a legal worker at minimum wage for jobs illiterate illegals can perform.  It's not here yet but technology will eliminate many service jobs eventually. 
My bank has a ATM- no bank teller
My grocer has a self checkout line - no bagboy or cashier
McDonalds has a order kiosk - no cashier
Little Caesers has a machine that makes pizzas nearly start to finish - no food preparers
Nearly every fast food or chain restaurant have phone apps to order and pay for food - fewer waitress's and hosts
Bookstores, parts stores, clothing stores, and more are being replace by the internet - fewer construction workers to build stores almost no employees to sell, maintain, or display products.

This is going to be a big problem in our service economy.  With the exception of bagboys and construction workers these service workers need to speak English.  Their jobs are disappearing.

Service areas that don't require literacy are construction, food prep, janitorial, and some auto repair.

In 1996 President Clinton and the GOP Congress passed sweeping changes to AFDC, influenced by WI Governor Tommy Thompson's Welfare to Work or W2 program.  Gov Thompson's W2 program required you actually had to have a job to receive assistance from the state.  Around that time I worked for a telemarketing company.  They hired a fat welfare mom because she was black and it helped protect them from a racial discrimination suit after she would inevitably be fired.  The job was easy.  A computer screen provided name and address as well as other information.  A script to read was provided and any moron that could read could return to work the next day and even make a marginally better wage than minimum...and while sitting in air-conditioned comfort and reading what ever between calls.  A special magnifying screen was built because she claimed sight problems and President Bush(41) passed a disability law.

I have never laughed as heartily as the moment she took her first call and said...

Hello.  Is 'w' 'i' 'l' 'l' 'i' 'a' 'm' at home?  I mean she literally spelled out the name William.

Business will not build special monitors and teach Americans to read.  They will eliminate the low skill jobs with tech, and if they still can't find labor in a 4% unemployed economy they will eliminate expansion and let foreign markets take up the slack.

I believe a high percentage of that 4% are drug addicts, violent criminals, people with poor work attendance or hygiene, and Trump voters.  If I owned a business I might prefer to employ a better than average illegal if I could get away with it.

There is no doubt about it.  Americans pound nails better than Mexicans./ sarc

You sound like my Mom. 
I got to say I enjoyed your reply.  It was substantive, clear, and provocative without being personally insulting.  I hope my reply lives up to that standard.  Thank you for taking the time to help me understand your point of view.

Ms. Navarette should have been prosecuted for aiding and abetting.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 05:30:31 am
Ms. Navarette should have been prosecuted for aiding and abetting.
I googled "Navarette' and "Ms. Navarette" :shrug:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 13, 2019, 05:51:12 am
I googled "Navarette' and "Ms. Navarette" :shrug:

From the link you posted about that Drunken Bovine.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 06:01:09 am
From the link you posted about that Drunken Bovine.
The Tipsy Cow is a bar/restaurant.  She should have closed the bar and moved out of the USA.  but then where would my State legislators drink booze outside of the Capitol?  They might have to walk several blocks further.

Thank you for your frivolous reply.  It helped me understand the depth of your abilities, and contemplation on this issue.  Who is your favorite Pokemon?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 07:48:04 am
Funny that - Because I live where there is virtually *no* illegal alien population. Fruit pickers come seasonally with their green cards, and gone again... Somehow we seem to get by fine... Our toilets get clean, oue lawns get mowed. Our houses get built... all by white guys and indians.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 08:30:11 am
Funny that - Because I live where there is virtually *no* illegal alien population. Fruit pickers come seasonally with their green cards, and gone again... Somehow we seem to get by fine... Our toilets get clean, oue lawns get mowed. Our houses get built... all by white guys and indians.

Illegals will work insane hours under inhuman conditions for slave wages, but your home town can't attract any?   88finger point
Put some new wheels on your trailer home and move buddy.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 08:50:18 am
Illegals will work insane hours under inhuman conditions for slave wages, but your home town can't attract any?   88finger point
Put some new wheels on your trailer home and move buddy.

Insane hours? Inhuman conditions? Slave wages?
So you've never been a rancher then.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: montanajoe on February 13, 2019, 10:03:11 am
Insane hours? Inhuman conditions? Slave wages?
So you've never been a rancher then.

  :mauslaff: 000hehehehe
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 13, 2019, 01:17:40 pm
Insane hours? Inhuman conditions? Slave wages?
So you've never been a rancher then.

You hit the Button on that Bonspiel.
 222222
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Sanguine on February 13, 2019, 02:57:55 pm
Illegals will work insane hours under inhuman conditions for slave wages, but your home town can't attract any?   88finger point
Put some new wheels on your trailer home and move buddy.

Ah, the old "illegals are better people than our home-grown POC, so we must import them to do the jobs that Americans won't do." 

Nothing like laying your blatant bigotry out there for all to see.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 13, 2019, 03:13:15 pm
Folks here must be REALLY bored since they are STILL playing with the Democrat troll!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 13, 2019, 03:15:50 pm
Folks here must be REALLY bored since they are STILL playing with the Democrat troll!

A day without this troll is like a day without sunshine.   Wet and moist.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 13, 2019, 03:16:08 pm
Great!  Come over and clean my toilets then.

No, she works by herself and does very well.  She has a well established clientele.  She makes well over $20.00 an hour and apparently they don't mind paying it.  But if you want cheap you get cheap.  I am sure it shows.  Still struggling with mildew?
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Night Hides Not on February 13, 2019, 03:16:16 pm
Insane hours? Inhuman conditions? Slave wages?
So you've never been a rancher then.

How about 8 months out of the year in the red mud of Grafenwoehr?

I was lucky...I was in a battalion whose mission was airbase defense. Still, between pulling Staff Duty Officer a couple of times a week, I was on the job in the neighborhood of 80-90 hours a week, for the princely sum of $666 per month.

I'm sure there are many other examples Briefers can come up with.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 13, 2019, 03:22:06 pm
A day without this troll is like a day without sunshine.   Wet and moist.

 888mouth
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Chosen Daughter on February 13, 2019, 03:22:51 pm
Illegals will work insane hours under inhuman conditions for slave wages, but your home town can't attract any?   88finger point
Put some new wheels on your trailer home and move buddy.

Yeah right.  I find many of them just plain lazy and not interested in hard work.  Why would they have to?  If they miss a day at work they still get the cash assistance and food stamps.  And when tax time rolls around just claim some children.  Whether they are yours or are living in the United States.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: txradioguy on February 13, 2019, 03:30:31 pm
Quote
Illegals will work insane hours under inhuman conditions for slave wages,

Someone is channeling their inner John McCain.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 03:34:47 pm
How about 8 months out of the year in the red mud of Grafenwoehr?

I was lucky...I was in a battalion whose mission was airbase defense. Still, between pulling Staff Duty Officer a couple of times a week, I was on the job in the neighborhood of 80-90 hours a week, for the princely sum of $666 per month.

I'm sure there are many other examples Briefers can come up with.

This is particularly a thing for me - my first business of size was lawn and landscaping a particular thing that illegal aliens are purported to do, according to what I see...

I had a pickup, a trailer full of power equipment, a tractor with a 4' cut and the ability to bag, and at least one employee at all times. I serviced mainly luxury residential homes with an acre or better of grass. 80-90 hours a week was my normal too, because not only was I keeping lawn and gardens on some 40 acres or so for upper class homes, I was still going home every day to fix my own equipment and keep the farm going too. Eventually that expanded to a repair shop for power equipment as well, as my business opened up on another front, and I keep my fingers in that to this very day...

Believe me, we get along just fine without illegal aliens, and y'all will too. Somebody will be happy to pick up the work.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: RoosGirl on February 13, 2019, 07:03:29 pm
The Tipsy Cow is a bar/restaurant.  She should have closed the bar and moved out of the USA.  but then where would my State legislators drink booze outside of the Capitol?  They might have to walk several blocks further.

Thank you for your frivolous reply.  It helped me understand the depth of your abilities, and contemplation on this issue.  Who is your favorite Pokemon?

Your stupid liberal trolling doesn't deserve contemplation, or even a reply really.  It is clear to everyone here what you are.  With your friend Blue Hasshole being made gone I can't believe you're allowed to remain considering you're constantly trolling and goading members.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: GrouchoTex on February 13, 2019, 07:47:17 pm
1.3% of the population?
I find that hilarious.
Estimates here run as low as 15%, and go up from there.
It's hard to really know, being illegal and all....
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 13, 2019, 07:57:56 pm
1.3% of the population?
I find that hilarious.
Estimates here run as low as 15%, and go up from there.
It's hard to really know, being illegal and all....

And that is why those of us living in Southern Border States say he's ignorant of the true situation.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 13, 2019, 08:01:25 pm
And that is why those of us living in Southern Border States say he's ignorant of the true situation.

He's not ignorant of anything! He is a professional troll!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 13, 2019, 08:13:44 pm
He's not ignorant of anything! He is a professional troll!

Let me edit for clarification:

And that is why those of us living in Southern Border States say he's [pretending to be] ignorant of the true situation.

Better?  LOL!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 13, 2019, 08:17:47 pm
Let me edit for clarification:

Better?  LOL!

Yes! Much!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 13, 2019, 08:20:12 pm
He's not ignorant of anything! He is a professional troll!

@Bigun
I used to think he was the way he was because of the bubble of liberalism that encompasses the area where he lives and works.  I have relatives that live the same place he does.  For all I know they may work together and swill pinot grigio from really big wine glasses at some trendy craft bar for old hippies and beard wearing hipsters and their girl friends with braided armpit hair.
But over the past several months I think you are correct. He's a paid Soro's troll
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 13, 2019, 08:22:55 pm
@Bigun
I used to think he was the way he was because of the bubble of liberalism that encompasses the area where he lives and works.  I have relatives that live the same place he does.  For all I know they may work together and swill pinot grigio from really big wine glasses at some trendy craft bar for old hippies and beard wearing hipsters and their girl friends with braided armpit hair.
But over the past several months I think you are correct. He's a paid Soro's troll

Don't know who is paying him but otherwise, I agree!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: EdJames on February 13, 2019, 08:45:12 pm
He's not ignorant of anything! He is a professional troll!

That is very clear to see.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: GtHawk on February 13, 2019, 10:05:55 pm
80,000 non existent illegals in WI.  1.3% of the population.

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/immigrants_in_wisconsin.pdf (https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/immigrants_in_wisconsin.pdf)

I have a family member who works here.







(https://isthmus.com/downloads/52641/download/News-ICE-raid-sign_crJoeTarr09272018.jpg?)

https://isthmus.com/news/news/ice-arrests-83-immigrants-in-wisconsin-in-enforcement-surge/ (https://isthmus.com/news/news/ice-arrests-83-immigrants-in-wisconsin-in-enforcement-surge/)

Why is ICE in WI? 

Teenagers don't work jobs.  They have after school activities.  Most businesses would gladly hire a legal worker at minimum wage for jobs illiterate illegals can perform.  It's not here yet but technology will eliminate many service jobs eventually. 
My bank has a ATM- no bank teller
My grocer has a self checkout line - no bagboy or cashier
McDonalds has a order kiosk - no cashier
Little Caesers has a machine that makes pizzas nearly start to finish - no food preparers
Nearly every fast food or chain restaurant have phone apps to order and pay for food - fewer waitress's and hosts
Bookstores, parts stores, clothing stores, and more are being replace by the internet - fewer construction workers to build stores almost no employees to sell, maintain, or display products.

This is going to be a big problem in our service economy.  With the exception of bagboys and construction workers these service workers need to speak English.  Their jobs are disappearing.

Service areas that don't require literacy are construction, food prep, janitorial, and some auto repair.

In 1996 President Clinton and the GOP Congress passed sweeping changes to AFDC, influenced by WI Governor Tommy Thompson's Welfare to Work or W2 program.  Gov Thompson's W2 program required you actually had to have a job to receive assistance from the state.  Around that time I worked for a telemarketing company.  They hired a fat welfare mom because she was black and it helped protect them from a racial discrimination suit after she would inevitably be fired.  The job was easy.  A computer screen provided name and address as well as other information.  A script to read was provided and any moron that could read could return to work the next day and even make a marginally better wage than minimum...and while sitting in air-conditioned comfort and reading what ever between calls.  A special magnifying screen was built because she claimed sight problems and President Bush(41) passed a disability law.

I have never laughed as heartily as the moment she took her first call and said...

Hello.  Is 'w' 'i' 'l' 'l' 'i' 'a' 'm' at home?  I mean she literally spelled out the name William.

Business will not build special monitors and teach Americans to read.  They will eliminate the low skill jobs with tech, and if they still can't find labor in a 4% unemployed economy they will eliminate expansion and let foreign markets take up the slack.

I believe a high percentage of that 4% are drug addicts, violent criminals, people with poor work attendance or hygiene, and Trump voters.  If I owned a business I might prefer to employ a better than average illegal if I could get away with it.

There is no doubt about it.  Americans pound nails better than Mexicans./ sarc

You sound like my Mom. 
I got to say I enjoyed your reply.  It was substantive, clear, and provocative without being personally insulting.  I hope my reply lives up to that standard.  Thank you for taking the time to help me understand your point of view.
80,000 non existent illegals in WI.  1.3% of the population.
Peruse this and then get back to me when you live somewhere with a real illegal alien population, and note it is three years old.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/u-s-unauthorized-immigrants-by-state/ (http://www.pewhispanic.org/interactives/u-s-unauthorized-immigrants-by-state/)

You don't think food prep requires literacy? Welcome to your coming food poisoning! Construction not needing literacy? Thank you for picking two fields I have many years of experience in, and to put as nicely as I can you are soooo wrong!

There is no doubt about it.  Americans pound nails better than Mexicans./ sarc

Where to start, do you actually believe only Mexicans are flooding the construction industry? Second, yeah many times they do hammer nails better than Mexicans and sometimes it's the other way around. Your point is churlish even if sarcastic. The point is that the illegals are taking entry level jobs away from our young people, jobs were they learn a trade from the ground up and progress to Journeyman and beyond. This has been a big problem with higher education selling our children a load of crap that they can only succeed by going to college, getting into astronomical debt and a non existent job market. You need to pay more attention to Mike Rowe and stop the simplistic view that we can absorb every other countries disenchanted because we have these entry level jobs, that they want to raise families on and we get stuck with gifting them all sorts of taxpayer funded goodies because they can't. Those jobs and the training for life need to go back to where they belong .........our young people. Even fast food jobs are important because they teach the kids to be responsible and haow to interact with others on a professional level.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 10:18:53 pm
There is no doubt about it.  Americans pound nails better than Mexicans./ sarc

I used to sink a 16d sinker in a set and a swing, and do it all day long...
Even with a Vaughn (better with an Estwing). And I've got the waffle prints on my thumbs to prove it!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Cyber Liberty on February 13, 2019, 10:23:15 pm
@GtHawk

Mike Rowe is the man!  I have my Amazon account set up to send his foundation, MikeRoweWorks, a cut of every purchase.

(BTW, love your Avatar!)
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 13, 2019, 10:27:29 pm
I used to sink a 16d sinker in a set and a swing, and do it all day long...
Even with a Vaughn (better with an Estwing). And I've got the waffle prints on my thumbs to prove it!

Lol Ouch.  I can honestly say I have felt your pain.  And I have the ER bill to prove it!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 10:37:49 pm
Lol Ouch.  I can honestly say I have felt your pain.  And I have the ER bill to prove it!

Try it some time with a 3lb anvil hammer and a spike 1/2"x12"... That'll wake you up.
Do that a few times and you figure out how to aim real good.

 :beer:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: GtHawk on February 13, 2019, 10:41:14 pm
I used to sink a 16d sinker in a set and a swing, and do it all day long...
Even with a Vaughn (better with an Estwing). And I've got the waffle prints on my thumbs to prove it!
@roamer_1
I swung a hammer next to a couple of honest to God framers, and I..........was embarrassed, I thought I was strong but nothing equals experience and the endurance years of repetition give! You can swing a hammer all day and wear yourself out with not much to show for it, especially when you are doing it next to an experience framer. Made me glad that most of the time I was running copper or installing Lab fixtures. Same goes for hanging drywall, and why I agree with Mike Rowe and also why I am more concerned with these jobs going to illegals instead of our kids. I have nothing but respect for those that have mastered a trade, hell my dad mastered two, the second when he was into his forties!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 13, 2019, 10:49:58 pm
Try it some time with a 3lb anvil hammer and a spike 1/2"x12"... That'll wake you up.
Do that a few times and you figure out how to aim real good.

 :beer:
@roamer_1 m
Nah.  The permanent waffle imprint is as good as it gets for me..... I hung up my framing hammer a few years later.  The pain is gone but the finger tattoo survives.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 10:52:17 pm
I swung a hammer next to a couple of honest to God framers, and I..........was embarrassed, I thought I was strong but nothing equals experience and the endurance years of repetition give! You can swing a hammer all day and wear yourself out with not much to show for it, especially when you are doing it next to an experience framer. Made me glad that most of the time I was running copper or installing Lab fixtures. Same goes for hanging drywall, and why I agree with Mike Rowe and also why I am more concerned with these jobs going to illegals instead of our kids.

@GtHawk
I've been all the way around home construction - from concrete to paint and cabinets... But I used to love framing and timber framing. Nail guns took the art out of it though... I made that transition... even in trim, where I can't even tell you how many 4d and 6d brights I set with a nail set... Surely boxes and boxes of em.

Now folks hardly know what a nail set it for, not too mention something critical like running a hand plane or a slick chisel...

And yeah, I agree - there ain't a better thing for a young man to get into... I started doing cleanup and learned all the way up from masters. It is altogether too dang bad it ain't that way no more.
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 13, 2019, 11:12:19 pm
Try it some time with a 3lb anvil hammer and a spike 1/2"x12"... That'll wake you up.
Do that a few times and you figure out how to aim real good.

 :beer:

No thanks!  I'll continue to stick to what I'm good at and drivin nails or spikes for a livin ain't it!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: roamer_1 on February 13, 2019, 11:14:01 pm
No thanks!  I'll continue to stick to what I'm good at and drivin nails or spikes for a livin ain't it!

Are you sure?
It'll teach you how to dance...  :laugh:
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Bigun on February 13, 2019, 11:17:12 pm
Are you sure?
It'll teach you how to dance...  :laugh:

Yes sir!  Damned sure in fact!
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on February 13, 2019, 11:17:53 pm
He's not ignorant of anything! He is a professional troll!
About time someone recognized me as a professional
Title: Re: Negotiators close to deal as shutdown deadline approaches
Post by: Wingnut on February 13, 2019, 11:26:51 pm
About time someone recognized me as a professional

They recognize hookers as professionals.  At least that is an honest profession.