The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on September 10, 2019, 04:03:09 pm
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Just breaking
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
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6m
....I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning. I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
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6m
I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration, and therefore....
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Bolton Out!
He's Gay? Damn Never saw that
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He's Gay? Damn Never saw that
LOL I changed the headline
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TADA!
Another Conservative bites the dust forever in the Tump administration. How many are left now again?
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He's Gay? Damn Never saw that
Underneath that mustache were a pair of sassily pursed lips
Our chances of finally finally getting our people out of Afghanistan just went up exponentially.
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LOL I changed the headline
Now my comment just looks stupid! Thanks Boss! :thud:
:cool:
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Now my comment just looks stupid! Thanks Boss! :thud:
:cool:
skeeter is keeping it alive... 888mouth
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skeeter is keeping it alive... 888mouth
I'm happy to encourage that kind of behavior.
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Wonder if this is related to the Taliban meeting?
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Wonder if this is related to the Taliban meeting?
That's my guess....but what side was he on...no meeting or meeting at Camp David?
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I'm happy to encourage that kind of behavior.
Thank you...I think! :beer:
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TADA!
Another Conservative bites the dust forever in the Tump administration. How many are left now again?
Paleocoms say Neocons are not conservatives. :shrug:
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That's my guess....but what side was he on...no meeting or meeting at Camp David?
Heard on Fox that Bolton was against the meeting.
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Brett Baier saying Bolton was AGAINST the Camp David meeting and was skeptical about the Taliban wanting peace and not to trust them
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Underneath that mustache were a pair of sassily pursed lips
Our chances of finally finally getting our people out of Afghanistan just went up exponentially.
Indeed.
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Brett Baier saying Bolton was AGAINST the Camp David meeting and was skeptical about the Taliban wanting peace and not to trust them
Bolton may be sacked, but I hope his good advice on this remains.
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also Baier says Bolton was against Trump sitting down with Iran leaders....this may have been part of the firing
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Trump fires National Security Adviser John Bolton, says they 'disagreed strongly' on policy
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fires-national-security-advisor-john-bolton-over-disagreements-on-key-policy-matters (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fires-national-security-advisor-john-bolton-over-disagreements-on-key-policy-matters)
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They had problems from the Get-Go, never understood why Trump appointed him anyway, who was he trying to appease?
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Paleocoms say Neocons are not conservatives. :shrug:
Guess what...
(http://rlv.zcache.com/gop_mammoth_logo_oval_sticker-r28cd7ab5e0f44fd69293d3ffdb904232_v9wz7_8byvr_324.jpg)
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They had problems from the Get-Go, never understood why Trump appointed him anyway, who was he trying to appease?
I have read that Trump encourages a toxic work environment among his managers. He probably hired Bolton to battle with his other advisors.
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BKMK
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FIREWORKS! Bolton Hits Back – Accuses President Trump of Lying, ‘Let’s Be Clear, I Resigned!’
President Trump fired John Bolton as National Security Advisor Monday evening and made the announcement Tuesday on Twitter.
“I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration, and therefore I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning. I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week,†Trump said in a pair of tweets Tuesday.
A few minutes later, John Bolton fired off a tweet claiming he was the one who offered to resign Monday night.
BOLTON: I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, “Let’s talk about it tomorrow.â€
more
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/09/fireworks-bolton-hits-back-accuses-president-trump-of-lying-lets-be-clear-i-resigned/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/09/fireworks-bolton-hits-back-accuses-president-trump-of-lying-lets-be-clear-i-resigned/)
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Our chances of finally finally getting our people out of Afghanistan just went up exponentially.
Along with that, so did the chances of…
1) Pompeo resigning and running for the Kansas US Senate seat in 2020
2) North Korea keeping their existing nuclear weapons
3) Iran obtaining theirs
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Yes, Mediaite (which reportedly is not conservative friendly) posted the same:
Bolton offered a different story in his own tweet, claiming that he had offered on Monday night to resign but Trump brushed him off.
“I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, ‘Let’s talk about it tomorrow,'†Bolton wrote.
In a text to Fox News host Brian Kilmeade, Bolton insisted that he resigned:
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/breaking-bolton-accuses-trump-of-lying-about-his-firing/ (https://www.mediaite.com/trump/breaking-bolton-accuses-trump-of-lying-about-his-firing/)
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Along with that, so did the chances of…
1) Pompeo resigning and running for the Kansas US Senate seat in 2020
2) North Korea keeping their existing nuclear weapons
3) Iran obtaining theirs
Dunno about number 1, but I seriously doubt Bolton was going to effect nos. 2 and 3 in the least.
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Wonder if this is related to the Taliban meeting?
@austingirl IMHO no it's not about the Taliban meeting...it's about dealing with the Iranians.
Their foreign minister Zarif and Senator Rand Paul have been quite chummy lately. Rand even invited him to a meeting July 15th when he was in town for the UN meetings.
The Iranians have been doing a lot of propaganda work against Bolton as well.
Rand holds his daddy's sentiments towards Iran (Blames the U.S.).
I fully expect to see Rand Paul take the lead in the Iran negotiations and Trump soften his rhetoric towards the mad mullahs in the near future.
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Brett Baier saying Bolton was AGAINST the Camp David meeting and was skeptical about the Taliban wanting peace and not to trust them
Well...
duh. As if Trump does "trust them"? I don't think so.
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Bolton says he offered to resign night before Trump announced his firing
By Brett Samuels - 09/10/19 12:31 PM EDT
Outgoing national security adviser John Bolton on Tuesday disputed President Trump's account of his dismissal, tweeting that he offered to resign before the president announced his ouster.
"I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, 'Let's talk about it tomorrow,'" Bolton tweeted.
Washington Post reporter Robert Costa and other journalists said that Bolton had texted them to make clear that he resigned.
The messages came moments after Trump rocked Washington with a pair of tweets that said he had asked Bolton to step down due to disagreements about policy.
<..snip..>
https://thehill.com/homenews/460713-bolton-says-he-offered-to-resign-night-before-trump-announced-his-firing (https://thehill.com/homenews/460713-bolton-says-he-offered-to-resign-night-before-trump-announced-his-firing)
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Rand Paul angles to become Trump's emissary to Iran
The senator pitched the idea during a recent round of golf with the president.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/17/rand-paul-iran-talks-donald-trump-1418075 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/17/rand-paul-iran-talks-donald-trump-1418075)
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This is a little confusing. According to many here, Bolton was a war-mongering neo-con and shouldn't ever be in a position of responsibility. ??
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@austingirl IMHO no it's not about the Taliban meeting...it's about dealing with the Iranians.
Their foreign minister Zarif and Senator Rand Paul have been quite chummy lately. Rand even invited him to a meeting July 15th when he was in town for the UN meetings.
The Iranians have been doing a lot of propaganda work against Bolton as well.
Rand holds his daddy's sentiments towards Iran (Blames the U.S.).
I fully expect to see Rand Paul take the lead in the Iran negotiations and Trump soften his rhetoric towards the mad mullahs in the near future.
Which I would disagree with. Softening rhetoric (much less actions) with the Iranians will only be seen as being weak, the opposite of what tactic needs to be used.
Just because Bolton is out (fired, quit, whatever) doesn't mean, necessarily, that Trump will...er... um...
soften.
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This is a little confusing. According to many here, Bolton was a war-mongering neo-con and shouldn't ever be in a position of responsibility. ??
Consider the sources on who's saying that. Bolton is what Trump needed when it comes to dealing with the Taliban the NORKS and Iran.
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Which I would disagree with. Softening rhetoric (much less actions) with the Iranians will only be seen as being weak, the opposite of what tactic needs to be used.
Just because Bolton is out (fired, quit, whatever) doesn't mean, necessarily, that Trump will...er... um...
soften.
If Rand now has the President's ear...which by all reports he does...he'll soften his stance.
Like I said...Rand is a chip off the old block when it comes to foreign policy. Especially where Iran is concerned.
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Well....... George Conway and Scaramouche are still available?
How many days till the 11/20 election? Sigh.
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Dunno about number 1, but I seriously doubt Bolton was going to effect nos. 2 and 3 in the least.
He and Pompeo are among the biggest hawks on Iran and North Korea.
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The Rand Paul connections to Trump, what txradioguy is saying sounds plausible to me, sounded plausible to me when they occurred months ago.
RP might bring some good things to the table but at the same time, of course, we want to beware of a Neville Chamberlain situation.
One of the Trump sons and Rand Paul had a campaign rally in one state.
Reading up, Rand is also one of the harsher Senators on Saudi Arabia, no military aid and so on, so that will be interesting.
And maybe Israel with Rand Paul but I expect our relation with Israel will remain largely the same.
We once had a poster here who claimed he went on a Holy Land cruise with John Bolton present.
Thank you John Bolton for all you have done.
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He and Pompeo are among the biggest hawks on Iran and North Korea.
Trump's policy has been pretty tough on Iran but it's been unusually lenient on the Norks. How would you explain that?
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Rand would mainly be an emissary to Iran. I wouldn't want to overstate affect on NK etc.
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If Rand now has the President's ear...which by all reports he does...he'll soften his stance.
Like I said...Rand is a chip off the old block when it comes to foreign policy. Especially where Iran is concerned.
Well, let's hope that Rand does not get that "position/role". Remember who else already has (and has had) Trump's ear. His entire family of Democrats. Which is, I suspect, part or most of the problem with his ""hiring decisions failures"". I think Trump believes whatever he is told about someone until someone else tells him otherwise. :shrug:
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Trump's policy has been pretty tough on Iran but it's been unusually lenient on the Norks. How would you explain that?
They’ve been pretty much the same – ‘maximum pressure’ sanctions. The only difference is North Koreans are used to living in squalor, with no real economy, industry, or exports. Iran depends heavily on oil exports - a much needed commodity. North Korea also has China on its doorstep. Any drastic measures taken against North Korea affects China.
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Bolton's statement: "You can't fire me, I quit!"
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Trump ousts National Security Adviser John Bolton, says they 'disagreed strongly' on policy
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fires-national-security-advisor-john-bolton-over-disagreements-on-key-policy-matters (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fires-national-security-advisor-john-bolton-over-disagreements-on-key-policy-matters)
President Trump announced Tuesday that he has fired National Security Adviser John Bolton, saying he “disagreed strongly†with his suggestions on a range of issues.
“I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House,†Trump tweeted.
“I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration, and therefore I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning,†he continued. “I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week.â€...
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Bolton's statement: "You can't fire me, I quit!"
Trump's unspoken statement: "Let's talk tomorrow" = Translation: "Fire ya later!"
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Unusually amicable for a Trump tweet for someone who disagrees with him.
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Trump and Bolton offer conflicting accounts on his White House exit
"I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House," Trump wrote.
[snip]
"I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, 'Let's talk about it tomorrow,'" he wrote online.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/10/trump-ousts-john-bolton-as-national-security-adviser-1488093 (https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/10/trump-ousts-john-bolton-as-national-security-adviser-1488093)
Looks like yet another chicken sh*t dismissal by tweet.
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John Boltonâ€
Verified account
@AmbJohnBolton
I offered to resign last night and President Trump said, "Let's talk about it tomorrow."
https://twitter.com/AmbJohnBolton/status/1171455806069305346
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The Rand Paul connections to Trump, what txradioguy is saying sounds plausible to me, sounded plausible to me when they occurred months ago.
RP might bring some good things to the table but at the same time, of course, we want to beware of a Neville Chamberlain situation.
One of the Trump sons and Rand Paul had a campaign rally in one state.
Reading up, Rand is also one of the harsher Senators on Saudi Arabia, no military aid and so on, so that will be interesting.
And maybe Israel with Rand Paul but I expect our relation with Israel will remain largely the same.
We once had a poster here who claimed he went on a Holy Land cruise with John Bolton present.
Thank you John Bolton for all you have done.
If I were Israel right now I'd be concerned. Rand and his daddy's views on Israel are pretty much the same...and that's not a good thing.
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Poor John. Worked for four administrations … and still no war with Iran. Damn!
His departure pleases me.
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There's a poll on this at: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,375071.msg2051838.html#msg2051838 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,375071.msg2051838.html#msg2051838)
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Guess what...
(http://rlv.zcache.com/gop_mammoth_logo_oval_sticker-r28cd7ab5e0f44fd69293d3ffdb904232_v9wz7_8byvr_324.jpg)
So you are like an animal that is extinct.
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Poor John. Worked for four administrations … and still no war with Iran. Damn!
His departure pleases me.
*****rollingeyes***** Bless your heart.
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That's 4 different National Security Advisors Trump has had in less than 3 years and surprisingly that's not a record, yet, Reagan had 6 in 8 years and Eisenhower had 5 (Cutler twice) in 8 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Advisor_%28United_States%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Advisor_%28United_States%29)
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*****rollingeyes***** Bless your heart.
Are you begging me to post the happy dance gif? :laugh:
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@austingirl IMHO no it's not about the Taliban meeting...it's about dealing with the Iranians.
Their foreign minister Zarif and Senator Rand Paul have been quite chummy lately. Rand even invited him to a meeting July 15th when he was in town for the UN meetings.
The Iranians have been doing a lot of propaganda work against Bolton as well.
Rand holds his daddy's sentiments towards Iran (Blames the U.S.).
I fully expect to see Rand Paul take the lead in the Iran negotiations and Trump soften his rhetoric towards the mad mullahs in the near future.
Dr. Ron Paul still sees the U.S. as the invaders and the provokers and perhaps opening the door for war.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWVkZ3xbvdk&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWVkZ3xbvdk&feature=youtu.be#)
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Dr. Ron Paul still sees the U.S. as the invaders and the provokers and perhaps opening the door for war.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWVkZ3xbvdk&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWVkZ3xbvdk&feature=youtu.be#)
Stuff like this is why he and his writings are so popular at places like antiwar.com and LewRockwell.com
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Poor John. Worked for four administrations … and still no war with Iran. Damn!
His departure pleases me.
Defamation by local Briefers in 3..2.. oops too late.
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Are you begging me to post the happy dance gif? :laugh:
Cause Isolationism worked out so well.
Why make a deal with Iran? Their economy is in shambles and yet they are still funding Hamas, propping up the butcher of Syria, sworn enemy of the US and our true ally Israel.
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That's 4 different National Security Advisors Trump has had in less than 3 years and surprisingly that's not a record, yet, Reagan had 6 in 8 years and Eisenhower had 5 (Cutler twice) in 8 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Advisor_%28United_States%29 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Advisor_%28United_States%29)
Helluva lot of turnover for a guy who only claims to hire the best.
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Poor John. Worked for four administrations … and still no war with Iran. Damn!
His departure pleases me.
Americans may end up wishing that we had gone to war, officially, with Iran before it's all over.
If we had, it would be over, we would have won and Iran would no longer be a nuclear threat to us and to Israel. Instead, thanks to the likes of Obama and the Muslime Brotherhood ... the enemy won that battle against the US.... possibly only to go on to win the future war (multiple nuked US cities resulting in our defeat). Remember, Iran is just another proxy that Russia and China uses against us.
Bolton may yet end up being maligned and ignored just like General Patton was ignored and dismissed (when he wanted to go after Russia), much to the detriment of the peace and possibly even the survival of the United States. Time will tell.
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Cause Isolationism worked out so well.
Why make a deal with Iran? Their economy is in shambles and yet they are still funding Hamas, propping up the butcher of Syria, sworn enemy of the US and our true ally Israel.
They're funneling oil to Syria...and they've got piles of cash that Obama sent them to keep Hamas up and running.
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I believe Bolton when he said he offered to resign last night and Trump said, We'll talk tomorrow...
Trump should have accepted his resignation then but instead he chose to publicly embarrass/insult Bolton..figures
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Poor John. Worked for four administrations … and still no war with Iran. Damn!
His departure pleases me.
Why the HELL do people persist in this delusion that taking down the Mullah regime in Iran would require US going to war with them? I would not!
@Right_in_Virginia
And his departure decidedly does not please me!
(https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70116749_10219787184700239_9047761986741338112_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_eui2=AeEMBMt3JEom7XBjmjv6UkR7-legrtJVzDUO3l9yaeKMTeLF4Wtp3lU6NLfzYNU8J1wBo9PzTSQTnjZLoU3yqOoFPzHoDyeabpQtZzDb50MB8w&_nc_oc=AQmHSWV7GP2mOHCdHMhTVAR45pORycdgDZOHWYiIqTlWryPyFSzE6TAE7ORHSII-MfI&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=fc94346dbbfac2073bf9a11273113470&oe=5DF90ED0)
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Why the HELL do people persist in this delusion that taking down the Mullah regime in Iran would require US going to war with them? I would not!
@Right_in_Virginia
@Bigun
Amazing how many people fall for the Progressive propaganda.
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@Bigun
Amazing how many people fall for the Progressive propaganda.
:yowsa: pointing-up Including the president apparently!
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Peter Alexander
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@PeterAlexander
Palpable tension between WH & NSC staffs right now.
A pro-Bolton NSC official came to speak with reporters inside the West Wing when Press Secy Stephanie Grisham walked by, gave a look & said: "Oh look, right outside my office" as she walked past.
1,080
10:33 AM - Sep 10, 2019
Eamon Javers
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@EamonJavers
Replying to @EamonJavers
This conversation took place with a few reporters in the West Wing. As it was happening, press secretary Stephanie Grisham came by and said, “oh, look - right outside my office.†The implication was Grisham disliked the source giving Bolton’s point of view right here.
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10:23 AM - Sep 10, 2019
Eamon Javers
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@EamonJavers
Replying to @EamonJavers
I asked Stephanie Grisham about the source close to Bolton telling us there had been no bad deals on Bolton’s watch. Grisham replied: “I don’t know what that means.â€
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10:42 AM - Sep 10, 2019
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It almost sounds a bit like "You can't resign because I'm firing you"....at this point, I'd say we have limited information on what this is about.
If Bolton stood on principle about something like allowing the Iranian representatives at Camp David or something, then, that is admirable.
It's been said before "Rubio guides Latin American policy" which he denies, saying only he advises on it.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article158342954.html (https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article158342954.html)
I wouldn't put the cart before the horse at this point, per Rand Paul and any other Senators who have the President's ear but if he goes left on foreign policy, I'm sure that will cause waves.
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Did Fired Bolton Derail Taliban Talks?
Was John Bolton fired because he didn't want a peace process to succeed?
By: Mark Angelides | September 10, 2019
National Security Advisor John Bolton has been fired by President Trump, who cited strong disagreements. The news came as a shock to many in the media who likely received their first clue via Trump’s favored delivery method. He tweeted: “I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration.â€
But what does this mean for America’s national security: Does it signal a less hawkish approach, or is there something more at play?
The Taliban Trauma
Earlier this week, the president announced that his surprise talks with the Taliban on ending the conflict in Afghanistan fell through and that he cancelled the meeting. Many are already suggesting that actions taken by Bolton could have led to the breakdown of communication. Whether it was Bolton’s firm position on Afghanistan and the need for a heightened military presence or some other factor, it’s difficult not to see a connection.
Afghanistan and a workable peace process appear to be something that Trump has been working on through back channels that likely cut Bolton out of the loop. It has been reported that Zalmay Khalilzad, the Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation at the State Department, even went so far as to not allow Bolton to remove a draft agreement from the conference room where they were meeting to discuss possible peace solutions.
Summit Collapse
<..snip..>
https://www.libertynation.com/did-fired-bolton-derail-taliban-talks/ (https://www.libertynation.com/did-fired-bolton-derail-taliban-talks/)
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This firing this morning appearently caught everyone by surprise. Bolton was supposed to be at the press conference alongside Pompeo. He was listed on the media avail announcement.
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Did Fired Bolton Derail Taliban Talks?
Was John Bolton fired because he didn't want a peace process to succeed?
By: Mark Angelides | September 10, 2019
National Security Advisor John Bolton has been fired by President Trump, who cited strong disagreements. The news came as a shock to many in the media who likely received their first clue via Trump’s favored delivery method. He tweeted: “I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration.â€
But what does this mean for America’s national security: Does it signal a less hawkish approach, or is there something more at play?
The Taliban Trauma
Earlier this week, the president announced that his surprise talks with the Taliban on ending the conflict in Afghanistan fell through and that he cancelled the meeting. Many are already suggesting that actions taken by Bolton could have led to the breakdown of communication. Whether it was Bolton’s firm position on Afghanistan and the need for a heightened military presence or some other factor, it’s difficult not to see a connection.
Afghanistan and a workable peace process appear to be something that Trump has been working on through back channels that likely cut Bolton out of the loop. It has been reported that Zalmay Khalilzad, the Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation at the State Department, even went so far as to not allow Bolton to remove a draft agreement from the conference room where they were meeting to discuss possible peace solutions.
Summit Collapse
<..snip..>
https://www.libertynation.com/did-fired-bolton-derail-taliban-talks/ (https://www.libertynation.com/did-fired-bolton-derail-taliban-talks/)
Ok corbe. Do your thing.
Make a poll on this "was Trump right to fire Bolton". And maybe a poll on who thinks staying in Afghanistan (like Bolton apparently did) is the correct stance. Me? I'd rather we get the hell out of there... what good is it doing? But that's just me and I don't know the "whys" of staying in Afghanistan vs. leaving. ?
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Why the HELL do people persist in this delusion that taking down the Mullah regime in Iran would require US going to war with them? I would not!
@Right_in_Virginia
And his departure decidedly does not please me!
I've always thought John Bolton is a war monger (not just with Iran) and have felt better when he wasn't affiliated with any White House, in any capacity.
I know you have always thought the opposite @Bigun I hope we can agree to disagree as friends. :beer:
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I've always thought John Bolton is a war monger (not just with Iran) and have felt better when he wasn't affiliated with any White House, in any capacity.
I know you have always thought the opposite @Bigun I hope we can agree to disagree as friends. :beer:
Of course, we can @Right_in_Virginia but you need to lose this idea that standing up to people = a warmonger! It doesn't!
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Of course, we can @Right_in_Virginia but you need to lose this idea that standing up to people = a warmonger! It doesn't!
If it did.... that would make Trump a warmonger, as well.
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If it did.... that would make Trump a warmonger, as well.
The reason people see John Bolton as a warmonger is that ALL the surrender monkeys populating the Department of State keep promulgating that idea. THEY are the enemy within.
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Ok corbe. Do your thing.
Make a poll on this "was Trump right to fire Bolton". And maybe a poll on who thinks staying in Afghanistan (like Bolton apparently did) is the correct stance. Me? I'd rather we get the hell out of there... what good is it doing? But that's just me and I don't know the "whys" of staying in Afghanistan vs. leaving. ?
@XenaLee I did a poll. It's at: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,375071.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,375071.0.html)
Please vote.
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For all of those saying things like that progressives are the ones who think they can peacefully deal with Iran like Obama's deal, remember, you have Democrats who are hawks on this issue, but if things go belly-up in Afghanistan or Iran, guess who gets the blame? And the Dems skate on the issue.
I'm definitely sorry to see Bolton go, a positive factor.
But a few years ago, he wrote that article on bombing Iran, that's pretty brash stuff. Say what you want for my stances, that's fine. That's what we are here for, to exchange opinions.
Speaking of, from the LA Times and USA Today, I found 2 editorials wanting us to stay over in Afghanistan. They are probably right in my view, they are also from publications that one would not be associating with conservatives.
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Bolton was clearly never a good fit for Trump. He is too much of a hawk to be compatible with Trump's non-interventionist inclinations. I think Trump used him as a "bad cop" to try to extract more in negotiations, but Bolton is not likely to accept compromise, and Trump is looking to close some big foreign policy deals before the election.
Things are so wacky in right wing politics right now I expect to read next that Bolton and Sarah Palin are getting married.
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@XenaLee I did a poll. It's at: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,375071.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,375071.0.html)
Please vote.
Good enough. Thank you!
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Of course, we can @Right_in_Virginia but you need to lose this idea that standing up to people = a warmonger! It doesn't!
I traditionally applaud those who stand up and voice an opinion, especially if it's a contrary one. So that's not it with Bolton. I really didn't like most of his opinions. I know in some circles I hold the minority opinion--so I'm kindda use to people not being terribly pleased with me about this. happy77
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Ok corbe. Do your thing.
Make a poll on this "was Trump right to fire Bolton". And maybe a poll on who thinks staying in Afghanistan (like Bolton apparently did) is the correct stance. Me? I'd rather we get the hell out of there... what good is it doing? But that's just me and I don't know the "whys" of staying in Afghanistan vs. leaving. ?
Added Poll to this thread @XenaLee Thanks for the suggestion.
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Trump campaigned on doing away with the Iran nuclear deal. He can't backpedal on that too much if people see that as the issue.
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Trump campaigned on doing away with the Iran nuclear deal. He can't backpedal on that too much if people see that as the issue.
He already did pull us out of that ""deal"". I doubt very much that he would waver from that stance now..... Bolton or no Bolton.
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the turnover rate in this Administration is horrible.
Clinton had 2 Advisors in 8 years
Bush had 2 Advisors in 8 years
Obama had 3 Advisors in 8 years
Trump has had 3 Advisors in 3 years
What is our National Security strategy ? :pondering:
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the turnover rate in this Administration is horrible.
Clinton had 2 Advisors in 8 years
Bush had 2 Advisors in 8 years
Obama had 3 Advisors in 8 years
Trump has had 3 Advisors in 3 years
What is our National Security strategy ? :pondering:
See reply #52
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the turnover rate in this Administration is horrible.
Clinton had 2 Advisors in 8 years
Bush had 2 Advisors in 8 years
Obama had 3 Advisors in 8 years
Trump has had 3 Advisors in 3 years
What is our National Security strategy ? :pondering:
Under this president?
To not keep someone in a position that is not the best fit FOR that position....
but to retain only the most beneficial to America's defense and security...
unlike the idiot left and RINO globalist cucks..... who hire and then keep incompetent morons in positions of power until or unless they die.
(just a guess)
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So you are like an animal that is extinct.
Many would agree with that statement.
But then the Coelacanths were found alive and well 66 million years later...
Extinct is a subjective term.
And principle things are forever.
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Under this president?
To not keep someone in a position that is not the best fit FOR that position....
but to retain only the most beneficial to America's defense and security...
unlike the idiot left and RINO globalist cucks..... who hire and then keep incompetent morons in positions of power until or unless they die.
(just a guess)
Isolationism or cut and run is not in the best interest of America. Unless you want terrorist attack in America we should finish what we started. Until the Taliban is wiped out we shoulld stay.
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Many would agree with that statement.
But then the Coelacanths were found alive and well 66 million years later...
Extinct is a subjective term.
They lasted right up until the Neanderthals hunted them to "extinction." :smokin:
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They lasted h=right up until the Neanderthals hunted them to "extinction." :smokin:
Which would make Neocons Neanderthals. :smokin:
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Isolationism or cut and run is not in the best interest of America. Unless you want terrorist attack in America we should finish what we started. Until the Taliban is wiped out we shoulld stay.
Agreed....and to add our military has sacrificed their time during deployments, loss of life only to make peace with the terrorists they have been trying to kill....finish the job and get the hell out..
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I'm not so much concerned about this but negotiating with the Taliban is just stupid.
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Isolationism or cut and run is not in the best interest of America.
Come on, man. You can't throw around "isolationism" and "cut and run" when referring to a freaking war we've been fighting for EIGHTEEN YEARS.
Get out now and carpet bomb the territory on the way home. Turn it to rubble; glass if we can find the backing in Congress.
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He already did pull us out of that ""deal"". I doubt very much that he would waver from that stance now..... Bolton or no Bolton.
He did in act but a story was posted somewhere here, that the deep state doesn't fully deep six it.
In fact, that's what Sen. Cruz was just sayng days ago.
See: https://m.jpost.com/American-Politics/CruzThe-deep-state-moves-against-Trump-policy-and-to-save-Iran-deal-600591
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I'm not so much concerned about this but negotiating with the Taliban is just stupid.
I think it was put best when somebody said, "I doubt the ability if the Taliban to carry out the steps in any agreement." I.E., they can't control their own actors. It's not worth negotiating with somebody who can't do that simple thing, so why bother?
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I'm not so much concerned about this but negotiating with the Taliban is just stupid.
They are the enemy.
Who else do you negotiate with?
The Taliban have their demands which is basically being against that government there, whom they do not recognize and so do not negotiate with.
I guess, they see us as having installed the official government.
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Agreed....and to add our military has sacrificed their time during deployments, loss of life only to make peace with the terrorists they have been trying to kill....finish the job and get the hell out..
Thats the problem. How do you 'finish a job' empires have been unsuccessfully trying to finish for centuries? Afghanistan isn't a nation - its a location in a god forsaken desert filled with prehistoric tribes who live to fight.
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Come on, man. You can't throw around "isolationism" and "cut and run" when referring to a freaking war we've been fighting for EIGHTEEN YEARS.
Get out now and carpet bomb the territory on the way home. Turn it to rubble; glass if we can find the backing in Congress.
If and when we do leave, there will be fighting on the way out, because local warlords are going to pick off evacuating troops just for the cred.
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They are the enemy.
Who else do you negotiate with?
The Taliban have their demands which is basically being against that government there, whom they do not recognize and so do not negotiate with.
I guess, they see us as having installed the official government.
The ONLY thing we should be negotiating with the Taliban on is their unconditional surrender. Anything less than that is a slap to the face of those of us that deployed there and to those that died there.
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Thats the problem. How do you 'finish a job' empires have been unsuccessfully trying to finish for centuries? Afghanistan isn't a nation - its a location in a god forsaken desert filled with prehistoric tribes who live to fight.
Put another way....How do you explain to the family of the last soldier killed it was all a mistake, without saying the soldier himself was a mistake?
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The ONLY thing we should be negotiating with the Taliban on is their unconditional surrender. Anything less than that is a slap to the face of those of us that deployed there and to those that died there.
Could the Taliban be believed if they said they "surrender?"
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Could the Taliban be believed if they said they "surrender?"
No more than we could believe Saddam and his generals in 1991.
They need to be wiped from the face of the earth. If any one of them is left hiding in a cave...maybe we dictate our terms of surrender then.
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The ONLY thing we should be negotiating with the Taliban on is their unconditional surrender. Anything less than that is a slap to the face of those of us that deployed there and to those that died there.
I fully respect that and I am fully grateful for that.
Mattis says "trust then verify."
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/james-mattis-on-face-the-nation-ex-defense-secretary-says-trump-should-verify-then-trust-in-talks-with-taliban/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/james-mattis-on-face-the-nation-ex-defense-secretary-says-trump-should-verify-then-trust-in-talks-with-taliban/)
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I fully respect that and I am fully grateful for that.
Mattis says "trust then verify."
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/james-mattis-on-face-the-nation-ex-defense-secretary-says-trump-should-verify-then-trust-in-talks-with-taliban/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/james-mattis-on-face-the-nation-ex-defense-secretary-says-trump-should-verify-then-trust-in-talks-with-taliban/)
He clearly learned that from Reagan. It's always a good rule of thumb.
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Come on, man. You can't throw around "isolationism" and "cut and run" when referring to a freaking war we've been fighting for EIGHTEEN YEARS.
Get out now and carpet bomb the territory on the way home. Turn it to rubble; glass if we can find the backing in Congress.
We finsih the job we started regardless how it is done. Also, don't make peace with the Taliban who gave sanctuary Bin Landen.
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The problem is, they really do seem to have an endless supply of Jihadists
I posted that the other day, Pompeo said 1,000 Taliban killed in the past ten days. That was on one of the Sunday shows, with Chris Wallace I believe
So, we will see, we have stepped up our efforts since the attack.
If we are killing that many, lots to think about.
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Thats the problem. How do you 'finish a job' empires have been unsuccessfully trying to finish for centuries? Afghanistan isn't a nation - its a location in a god forsaken desert filled with prehistoric tribes who live to fight.
goopo
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We finsih the job we started regardless how it is done. Also, don't make peace with the Taliban who gave sanctuary Bin Landen.
Exactly
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Exactly
Wasn't our original objective to punish them for their actions leading to 9-11, and prevent someone like Al Qaeda from having another base to launch operations from? How are we doing, defined that way?
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Excellent, another Bush neocon gone, happy days are here again.
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Wasn't our original objective to punish them for their actions leading to 9-11, and prevent someone like Al Qaeda from having another base to launch operations from? How are we doing, defined that way?
Mattis said in the above interview, they have refused to break with al Qaeda for that matter, that's a sticking point
Still, I can see where anyone who uses suicide bombs can not be trusted though they could say, we use bombs too.
Just saying how people think.
I already said we are in Germany, Japan, Korea.
The idea of a somewhat permanent presence doesn't bother me that much, we've definitely got it in Iraq, for the time being.
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Paleocoms say Neocons are not conservatives. :shrug:
They are not, neocons left the D party because D's turned into the anti-war party after Nam. Neocons are really warmongering Democrats that took over the GOP until Trump FINALLY bested them.
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I guess it has been pointed out upthread somewhere, that Bolton say he resigned, and was not "fired"...
Edit: Ok see this was already be discussed in the posts (replies in around the 40s)
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Jennifer Jacobs
@JenniferJJacobs
Lots of names being floated by Trump associates as possible Bolton replacements, including @robertcobrien
, who is Trump’s envoy for hostage affairs, and Brian Hook, Pompeo’s senior policy adviser, I’m told.
3:01 PM · Sep 10, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1171514115887468544 (https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1171514115887468544)
Brian Hook: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_H._Hook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_H._Hook)
He's been in the news a bit lately, though, I forget a bit about what.
No endorsement on this article, I just saw it:
Hook’s Despicable Yemen Propaganda (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/hooks-despicable-yemen-propaganda/) from The American Conservative which I don't care for in general.
Blaming Iran for the harm done to Yemen by the U.S.-backed Saudi coalition is the administration’s most sickening rhetorical maneuver, and it is also one of their most common. It is profoundly dishonest. The administration seeks to pin the catastrophe in Yemen on a government that has virtually nothing to do with it while letting the genuinely guilty parties off the hook.
I've heard this pitch before, I don't really believe it. You know, Houthi rebels are firing off missiles at Saudi Arabia all the time? Where does this author think they get them?? I'd assume Iran. That seems pretty obvious, not rocket science, who else?
That said, I'm certainly not excusing any Saudi actions. And if it is the case, they are wrong, we are wrong to supply them.
But as I said, bottom line, I don't know.
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Hook and O'Brien do not appear to be radical departures from Bolton. I'm sure there are a number of others that will be considered.
I'm sorry to see Bolton leave but as for me, I expected this at one time or the other.
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Bolton Likely Axed Over Taliban Deal, Leaks
By Barbara Boland • September 10, 2019
It could be that a tense disagreement over the now-dead deal with the Taliban was the last straw for Trump, who said he fired his National Security Advisor John Bolton today. The firing followed a “bitter argument last night†Bolton said he had with Trump over the president’s plan to host Taliban leaders at Camp David three days before the 9/11 anniversary, sources report.
“I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration, and therefore I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning,†Trump tweeted late this morning. “I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week.â€
...
But Bolton’s version of events doesn’t make much sense: about an hour before Trump’s tweet, the White House had informed the press that Bolton would be briefing reporters, along with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, and Bolton even led a meeting this morning.
Read more at: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/bolton-likely-axed-over-taliban-deal-leaks/ (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/bolton-likely-axed-over-taliban-deal-leaks/)
I'll study this article some.
:pop41:
Article says Bolton was a key architect of the war in Iraq. That per most sources I think is a damnable lie, I think Colin Powell, these others kept him out of that loop. Sure, Bolton supported the invasion.
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Wasn't our original objective to punish them for their actions leading to 9-11, and prevent someone like Al Qaeda from having another base to launch operations from? How are we doing, defined that way?
Yes that was the objective. Run them out of Afghanistan and eliminate any training camps in the ME where we found them.
The problem is kinda like what we ran into in Korea in 1951...we started an offensive that ended up pushing the NORKS almost entirely off the peninsula and we ran into a problem...the Chinese border. MacArthur wanted to chase them into China if necessary...Truman and others said no...no coalition forces north of the Yalu river. Mac's hands were tied in that aspect and it's part (that and his enormous ego) of what led him to get fired and sent home.
We chased the Taliban...had them on the run Tora Bora we just missed by hours dropping a MOAB on Bin Laden...chased them into Pakistan where again...we were told we couldn't go to pursue the enemy. That we had to stop and not go into the Wazristan Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan. And because of that the Taliban lived to fight another decade.
In both instances IMHO...the military leaders on the ground had the initiative they had the forces and they had the enemy on the run...and both times politicians stopped their advance and the enemy was allowed to escape and continue to fight and ultimately fight us to a draw.
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We finsih the job we started regardless how it is done.
We did finish the job @kevindavis … and based on why we went in, we should have exited Afghanistan May 2, 2011. Everything after this date has been bullshit in its purest form.
We have left MORE than enough American blood, body parts and treasure in that hell hole. MORE than enough. Let's give our young patriots a chance to reach 30 with two arms and two legs. I don't think this is asking too much.
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In both instances IMHO...the military leaders on the ground had the initiative they had the forces and they had the enemy on the run...and both times politicians stopped their advance and the enemy was allowed to escape and continue to fight and ultimately fight us to a draw.
That's right. If the sombiches have the balls to let the dogs out, the least they could do is let em off the chain. Always and ever the case. It ain't my thing, but I feel ya. You don't start it, but if you got it to do, you damn well finish it... Till all they're doin is twitchin. Redneck 101.
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In both instances IMHO...the military leaders on the ground had the initiative they had the forces and they had the enemy on the run...and both times politicians stopped their advance and the enemy was allowed to escape and continue to fight and ultimately fight us to a draw.
Pretty much been the case since the Korean war and it SUCKS a big one!
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That's right. If the sombiches have the balls to let the dogs out, the least they could do is let em off the chain. Always and ever the case. It ain't my thing, but I feel ya. You don't start it, but if you got it to do, you damn well finish it... Till all they're doin is twitchin. Redneck 101.
We did the same thing in Iraq in 1991. We were about to completely surround the enemy that was in a full retreat...and politics prevented us from completely destroying Saddam and allowing him to stay in power for another 12 years.
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Pretty much been the case since the Korean war and it SUCKS a big one!
It does suck. It is a strategy the enemy studies...they know if they can get us into a war of attrition we'll come the table to talk "peace".
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Jonathan Karl
@jonkarl
·
3h
Well this is interesting ...
John Bolton was in the Situation Room this morning, chairing the National Security Council’s Principals Committee meeting.
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We did the same thing in Iraq in 1991. We were about to completely surround the enemy that was in a full retreat...and politics prevented us from completely destroying Saddam and allowing him to stay in power for another 12 years.
Yeah, I remember... Shut you guys off and let em get back to Bagdad and blend in. Dumbest thing ever.
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Yeah, I remember... Shut you guys off and let em get back to Bagdad and blend in. Dumbest thing ever.
Many of us back in '16 beleived that Trump would make a substantial "left" shift after election. The transformation is well underway now.
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I believe Bolton when he said he offered to resign last night and Trump said, We'll talk tomorrow...
Trump should have accepted his resignation then but instead he chose to publicly embarrass/insult Bolton..figures
I agree.
As one GOP primary opponent eloquently stated in 2016.......
"Donald Trump has a tenuous realtionship with the truth."
Ted Cruz 4 Mar 2016
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I agree.
As one GOP primary opponent eloquently stated in 2016.......
"Donald Trump has a tenuous realtionship with the truth."
Ted Cruz 4 Mar 2016
And, here we go..... :laugh:
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So, in other words, as things stand, we really can't win one of these wars with our hands tied, our backs have to be up against the wall like WWII. That's part of the problem alright. That's why we nation-builded.
Though Iraq, imho, was a won war, is won again. Iraq succeeds, Afghanistan, work-in-process.
And yes, Afghanistan has almost an endless supply of fighters, many foreigners not just the Pashtuns.
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Isolationism or cut and run is not in the best interest of America. Unless you want terrorist attack in America we should finish what we started. Until the Taliban is wiped out we shoulld stay.
Uh huh. And how many years did Russia fight in Afghanistan until they finally gave up and left. And then what do we do? Make the same stupid mistake. It seems pretty obvious to me that Afghanistan has become the muzzie's favorite way to drain their enemy's wealth and resolve. I dunno. I doubt that the Taliban will ever be "wiped out" completely... no matter what the US does. Look at ISIS. They seem to be "coming back". It's giving Islamic wackos in the ME something to kill for and to die for.
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Uh huh. And how many years did Russia fight in Afghanistan until they finally gave up and left. And then what do we do? Make the same stupid mistake. It seems pretty obvious to me that Afghanistan has become the muzzie's favorite way to drain their enemy's wealth and resolve. I dunno. I doubt that the Taliban will ever be "wiped out" completely... no matter what the US does. Look at ISIS. They seem to be "coming back". It's giving Islamic wackos in the ME something to kill for and to die for.
More like Vietnam all over again.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-09/donald-trump-taliban-afghanistan-peace-deal-vietnam (https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-09/donald-trump-taliban-afghanistan-peace-deal-vietnam)
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Uh huh. And how many years did Russia fight in Afghanistan until they finally gave up and left. And then what do we do? Make the same stupid mistake. It seems pretty obvious to me that Afghanistan has become the muzzie's favorite way to drain their enemy's wealth and resolve. I dunno. I doubt that the Taliban will ever be "wiped out" completely... no matter what the US does. Look at ISIS. They seem to be "coming back". It's giving Islamic wackos in the ME something to kill for and to die for.
From my understanding; Bammy tied our soldiers hands and he also withdrew troops with no plan (or intent IMHO) to stabilize the area. I would hope that Trump was planning on firing him and has someone worthwhile and completely capable who can quickly step in to replace him.
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(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70953163_2483754941854398_9148222972601827328_o.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlViJAykWWjc-TagyxXmDNhh-6s_sgo272ARgmoZzBXwB2fvHPa7UMlVXCt4dLfA78&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=0fbd7a22c177cb47df82f6fe69d365fa&oe=5E10C10D)
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That Mittens thinks Bolton's departure is a sad thing may tend to persuade me that it's a good thing.
Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) defended outgoing national security adviser John Bolton on Tuesday, calling his firing a “huge loss.â€
"His view was not always the same as everybody else in the room. That’s why you wanted him there. The fact that he was a contrarian from time to time is an asset not a liability,†Romney told reporters Tuesday after the president tweeted that Bolton had been fired.
“I’m very very unhappy to hear that he’s leaving. It is a huge loss for the administration in my opinion and for the nation,†Romney added. ... The Hill (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/460712-romney-bolton-firing-a-huge-loss-for-nation)
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TADA!
Another Conservative bites the dust forever in the Tump administration.
Correctamundo. Bolton had been a blessing to this Administration. Clearly, they are getting very bad advice from someone else.
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So, in other words, as things stand, we really can't win one of these wars with our hands tied, our backs have to be up against the wall like WWII. That's part of the problem alright. That's why we nation-builded.
Though Iraq, imho, was a won war, is won again. Iraq succeeds, Afghanistan, work-in-process.
And yes, Afghanistan has almost an endless supply of fighters, many foreigners not just the Pashtuns.
Not really. We had a chance to make Iraq a success story...but the Obama administration either through stupidity or deliberate actions screwed it up. They pulled forces out entirely...despite the Iraqi Government forces begging them not to...and we left with no Status of Forces Agreement which was another colossal mistake.
As we've discovered Mattis tried to warn the Administration about the rise of an ISIS like force if we pulled out and he was fired for being right.
Now Iran is exuding influence over Iraq...there generals were advising Iraqi military forces not our generals and the Iranians were supplying the Iraqi Army with weapons and munitions while Obama refused.
Iraq was in a much better position than Afghanistan once we drove the pro Saddam and Taliban forces from the battlefield...then the Liberals took over and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Consider the sources on who's saying that. Bolton is what Trump needed when it comes to dealing with the Taliban the NORKS and Iran.
Bad Cop has been let go.
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He clearly learned that from Reagan. It's always a good rule of thumb.
Interestingly, it's a Russian proverb, which Reagan cleverly tossed back at them.
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Okay, I can understand those wanting us out of Afghanistan.
But as an aside, at this point, we are in a long-term struggle with Terrorism no matter what, it won't sleep and neither can we.
We're over in Somalia on limited missions, Chad and so on. Remember our soldiers who were ambushed over there?
Canada and France are in it too. Over the long haul, it is a problem that we need to keep up on. It certainly doesn't mean we have to get into an 18 year long shooting war all the time but we must be vigilant.
And there is probably some truth that if we don't get them over there, they'll make their way over here. Already, attacks on the West seem to have declined.
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ss7NhdFyMlQ/USzoQ2qXdBI/AAAAAAAANmQ/4fGfJSnsvWA/s1600/President+of+Red+Eye+small.jpg)
Better than being a WWF Hall of Famer.
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Not really. We had a chance to make Iraq a success story...but the Obama administration either through stupidity or deliberate actions screwed it up. They pulled forces out entirely...despite the Iraqi Government forces begging them not to...and we left with no Status of Forces Agreement which was another colossal mistake.
As we've discovered Mattis tried to warn the Administration about the rise of an ISIS like force if we pulled out and he was fired for being right.
Now Iran is exuding influence over Iraq...there generals were advising Iraqi military forces not our generals and the Iranians were supplying the Iraqi Army with weapons and munitions while Obama refused.
Iraq was in a much better position than Afghanistan once we drove the pro Saddam and Taliban forces from the battlefield...then the Liberals took over and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
I indeed meant Iraq was won... not really saying it was won per Obama but it was largely won, by 2011, you could walk around, you didn't need to wear your helmet. Safe.
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I indeed meant Iraq was won... not really saying it was won per Obama but it was largely won, by 2011, you could walk around, you didn't need to wear your helmet. Safe.
Yes by 2011 it was fairly stable in the cities and civilians could walk around safely. Then we were gone by New Years Eve 2011 and things changed drastically.
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@Bigun
Amazing how many people fall for the Progressive propaganda.
Even more amazing is how people generate it themselves when defending their leader.
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Didn't we used to have a female poster who did multiple tours in Iraq during and after the fall of Saddam?
She was in the "green zone"...which means something entirely different today. happy77
Can't remember her name
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Even more amazing is how people generate it themselves when defending their leader.
Indeed. It's quite interesting to watch.
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Every Afghani is Taliban. Every one.
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Isolationism or cut and run is not in the best interest of America. Unless you want terrorist attack in America we should finish what we started. Until the Taliban is wiped out we shoulld stay.
Too bad we can't go back to the Bush doctrine. Low presence. Specialized engagement. Strong relationship with tribal allies. Minimal casualties. The goal was to prevent a pro-Taliban government from attaining power in Kabul. It worked. Brilliantly it worked. And it was all thrown away in 2009.
Trump needs to immediately abandon the Obama doctrine resulted in a threefold increase in casualties and return to the minimal presence that Bush originally enacted.
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Excellent, another Bush neocon gone, happy days are here again.
You just went full Democrat. Never go full Democrat.
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Many of us back in '16 beleived that Trump would make a substantial "left" shift after election. The transformation is well underway now.
I will predict you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till he doesn't need another election and his legacy looms large.
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Correctamundo. Bolton had been a blessing to this Administration. Clearly, they are getting very bad advice from someone else.
No, just the guy at the top throwing another hissy fit. Somebody took his yo-yo or something... :shrug: :whistle:
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Didn't we used to have a female poster who did multiple tours in Iraq during and after the fall of Saddam?
She was in the "green zone"...which means something entirely different today. happy77
Can't remember her name
Yes, and I'm trying to remember her name. I'll post it if/when I remember it.
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Didn't we used to have a female poster who did multiple tours in Iraq during and after the fall of Saddam?
She was in the "green zone"...which means something entirely different today. happy77
Can't remember her name
A soldier? I remember we had some gal over at FR who was a reporter. A lousy one after she returned to the states to report more mundane things. I think she works for a car wash now. :shrug:
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Yes, and I'm trying to remember her name. I'll post it if/when I remember it.
Alamo Girl? :shrug:
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Allegra from FR was a contractor.... not sure exactly what her role was....
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That Mittens thinks Bolton's departure is a sad thing may tend to persuade me that it's a good thing.
Seeing Mittens to the right of Trump is what's really sad.
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Too bad we can't go back to the Bush doctrine. Low presence. Specialized engagement. Strong relationship with tribal allies. Minimal casualties. The goal was to prevent a pro-Taliban government from attaining power in Kabul. It worked. Brilliantly it worked. And it was all thrown away in 2009.
Trump needs to immediately abandon the Obama doctrine resulted in a threefold increase in casualties and return to the minimal presence that Bush originally enacted.
Afghanistan was the "good war" according to Obama. Now, this was when Obama was newly inaugurated, within weeks:
The Obama surge
U.S. Pres. Barack Obama went to the White House promising to focus attention and resources on the faltering war effort in Afghanistan. On February 17, 2009, he approved sending an additional 17,000 U.S. troops, on top of the 36,000 U.S. troops and 32,000 NATO service members already there.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Afghanistan-War/The-Obama-surge (https://www.britannica.com/event/Afghanistan-War/The-Obama-surge)
Yeah, Bush's tactics were working great.
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Seeing Mittens to the right of Trump is what's really sad.
That he can get anywhere near to being to the right is doom. Because the Dems will play the same song. And if they do, they will win.
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Josh Ritter - "Girl In The War"
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyYJrS8l73g#)
Always liked Alamo Girl
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Allegra!
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Afghanistan was the "good war" according to Obama. Now, this was when Obama was newly inaugurated, within weeks:
Yeah, Bush's tactics were working great.
So tell me what was "faltering" in 2009? It is not often that I hear a poster here using Obama talking points. So convince me. Explain from Obama's point of view exactly what was faltering?
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Allegra from FR was a contractor.... not sure exactly what her role was....
That's it. She got sideways over at TOS and I'm not sure she ever came back.
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I'm for staying but staying means such tragedies as insider killings. There's been plenty of that and we will likely see more. That's on all of our consciences too. Those killings and wounding especially bother me because who does it, is whom we are suppose to be protecting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/17/world/asia/afghanistan-us-soldiers-insider-attack.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/17/world/asia/afghanistan-us-soldiers-insider-attack.html)
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Afghanistan was the "good war" according to Obama. Now, this was when Obama was newly inaugurated, within weeks:
Yeah, Bush's tactics were working great.
About that "Obama Surge." he asked what the bare minimum troop level would be to succeed, and the 17,000 troops was about 75% of that number, guaranteeing a failure. Not sure how that was Bush's Fault.
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That's it. She got sideways over at TOS and I'm not sure she ever came back.
I think she mended the bridges there. She has an account here, but took a powder after very few posts. I lost a lot of respect for her since she came back from Iraq, she has a bit of SJW in her.
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So tell me what was "faltering" in 2009? It is not often that I hear a poster here using Obama talking points. So convince me. Explain from Obama's point of view exactly what was faltering?
On October 1, 2008, the top American general in Afghanistan, David McKiernan, warned that the situation in Afghanistan could get a lot worse. The international forces within Afghanistan have not been able to hold territory they have cleared because of the lack of troops. For this reason the general called for an extra three combat brigades (roughly 20,000 troops). Without this urgent rush of troops the Taliban would be able to get back into the communities that were once cleared by international troops. The general went on to say that things could get a lot worse before they get better.[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_in_Afghanistan
General David McKiernan, born in Atlanta GA. Sound like an Obama talking point? Doesn't to me. October 2008.
.
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I think she mended the bridges there. She has an account here, but took a powder after very few posts. I lost a lot of respect for her since she came back from Iraq, she has a bit of SJW in her.
That's disappointing.
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That's disappointing.
Very much so, for me personally. Until she went all SJW on me, I had counted her as a friend. She ended up accusing me of "mansplaining." When she reiterated it, I blocked her on Bookface and vaporized her from my pages.
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Very much so, for me personally. Until she went all SJW on me, I had counted her as a friend. She ended up accusing me of "mansplaining." When she reiterated it, I blocked her on Bookface and vaporized her from my pages.
She was always a bit shakey IMHO.
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General David McKiernan, born in Atlanta GA. Sound like an Obama talking point? Doesn't to me. October 2008.
Not sure what any of that has to do with the original mission which was to prevent a terrorist-friendly government in Afghanistan. So again, what part of that goal was faltering?
btw, McKiernan had a history of calling for more troops though his career. Nothing different about this one. Of course if you are really into the whole 'nation-building' thing, then it would explain why you support the Obama doctrine - failure that it was. But the whole point was to prevent another Taliban government by supporting the anti-Taliban alliance. It had nothing at all to do with trying to hold on to every square kilometer of the country like the Soviets tried to do in the 80s. Bush should be applauded. Loudly. He did what others said was not possible. And it sickens me to hear people on a Conservative web site bashing him for not being more like Obama and Trump.
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With every decision or with every action Trump took came the cries of ...that was a “stupid move for Trump to fill in the blank†— tweet, comment, hire, fire, meet with, etc.
And yet each time that happened, Trump was proven right regarding said actions, tweet or statements. Every body else was wrong, including GOP grey beards.
I think I’ll go with Trump’s instinct on this, he’s been vindicated enough times for me to trust his decisions.
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General David McKiernan, born in Atlanta GA. Sound like an Obama talking point? Doesn't to me. October 2008.
.
I did McKiernan's retirement ceremony after Obama fired him from running Afghanistan and replaced him with McCrystal. Only the SecDef Robert Gates showed up for his ceremony.
Bitter doesn't begin to describe the General's of his voice when he delivered his remarks.
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She was always a bit shakey IMHO.
The company she keeps.
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With every decision or with every action Trump took came the cries of ...that was a “stupid move for Trump to fill in the blank†— tweet, comment, hire, fire, meet with, etc.
And yet each time that happened, Trump was proven right regarding said actions, tweet or statements. Every body else was wrong, including GOP grey beards.
I think I’ll go with Trump’s instinct on this, he’s been vindicated enough times for me to trust his decisions.
I haven’t felt the same about John Bolton since the Tucker Carlson interview. Although Carlson was hard on him Bolton showed a surprising lack of grace for a senior statesman.
Of course I am more sympathetic with Carlson’s point f view.
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I did McKiernan's retirement ceremony after Obama fired him from running Afghanistan and replaced him with McCrystal. Only the SecDef Robert Gates showed up for his ceremony.
Bitter doesn't begin to describe the General's of his voice when he delivered his remarks.
Am I mistaken? Seems like both B2 and Obama fired a lot of generals who offered up a good plan to defeat the jihadists.
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I did McKiernan's retirement ceremony after Obama fired him from running Afghanistan and replaced him with McCrystal. Only the SecDef Robert Gates showed up for his ceremony.
Bitter doesn't begin to describe the General's of his voice when he delivered his remarks.
Gates also came to Rex Tillerson's defense when he was fired by Tweet.
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Am I mistaken? Seems like both B2 and Obama fired a lot of generals who offered up a good plan to defeat the jihadists.
No @bigheadfred, you most definately are not mistaken!
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With every decision or with every action Trump took came the cries of ...that was a “stupid move for Trump to fill in the blank†— tweet, comment, hire, fire, meet with, etc.
And yet each time that happened, Trump was proven right regarding said actions, tweet or statements. Every body else was wrong, including GOP grey beards.
I think I’ll go with Trump’s instinct on this, he’s been vindicated enough times for me to trust his decisions.
:thumbsup:
Good post, I wasn't for Bolton being fired, not saying it was the wrong thing to do.
They are strong-willed individuals...I don't fault Bolton,
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/bolton-likely-axed-over-taliban-deal-leaks/ (https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/bolton-likely-axed-over-taliban-deal-leaks/)
That Korea matter, Afghanistan, sure tells me, we will find out more about this in the future.
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The company she keeps.
Precisely! Her first assignment when she got back to the States was a 6-month writing gig in Berkeley, CA.
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I haven’t felt the same about John Bolton since the Tucker Carlson interview. Although Carlson was hard on him Bolton showed a surprising lack of grace for a senior statesman.
Of course I am more sympathetic with Carlson’s point f view.
Tucker's kind of an isolationist non-interventionist type. I've mixed feelings but it's great to see everyone's opinion. Your statement is a bit intriguing.
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I haven’t felt the same about John Bolton since the Tucker Carlson interview. Although Carlson was hard on him Bolton showed a surprising lack of grace for a senior statesman.
Of course I am more sympathetic with Carlson’s point f view.
Carlson just ripped him a new one on his show. Not one nice thing to say about Bolton.
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Carlson just ripped him a new one on his show. Not one nice thing to say about Bolton.
I guess Tucker's been holding back on us....
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Brett Baier saying Bolton was AGAINST the Camp David meeting and was skeptical about the Taliban wanting peace and not to trust them
That's what I thought. How could you not be. Last time when Trump wanted Congress to pay for the Taliban expenses to attend a peace meeting they hadn't stopped bombings in Afghanistan. There was an attack in the headlines right at the same time. We all know what the Taliban is. A person would have to be crazy to think that they would change and embrace any kind of peace.
Nope, back to stoning women. Acid attacks. No kites. No women going to school...……….
I always liked Bolton.
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Who's acting National Security Advisor? Trump said he'd appoint a new one next week, this is Business Insider, no endorsement for tone of article, excerpt (never heard of him):
Meet Charlie Kupperman, Trump’s acting national security adviser who advised a group that promotes anti-Muslim conspiracy theories
Eliza Relman
Kupperman served in President Ronald Reagan's administration and as an executive at defense contractors Boeing and Lockheed Martin before joining the Trump administration last January.
Civil rights groups have raised alarms about Kupperman's association with the Center for Security Policy, a right-wing think tank that has promoted a host of anti-Muslim conspiracy theories.
Kupperman is a longtime adviser to Bolton and reportedly aligns with the outgoing official's hawkish orientation towards foreign policy and intervention.
More: https://www.businessinsider.com/meet-charlie-kupperman-trumps-acting-national-security-adviser-2019-9 (https://www.businessinsider.com/meet-charlie-kupperman-trumps-acting-national-security-adviser-2019-9)
Scarce information from wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Kupperman)
Center for Security Policy <---- This is Frank Gaffney's organization, he was also in the Reagan administration. Now, these guys, Frank too, get tarred and feathered by people using the race card (maybe religion card actually). The article above says CAIR have petitioned to have him removed from the administration.
Doesn't sound too bad actually, you never know, when one of these people will have to do this on a permanent basis.
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I guess Tucker's been holding back on us....
Chatsworth Osborne, Jr. isn't the Conservative everyone thinks he is.
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I always liked Bolton.
Ditto
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Ditto
Ditto that ditto.
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Ditto
Same here. But, I'm not sure what I think about this.
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Same here. But, I'm not sure what I think about this.
Sixth-dimensional chess. Fire the hardass. Make the other side think they have just gained something.
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Excerpt:
Analysis | Something is fishy about Trump’s John Bolton announcement
...
Trump tweeted around noon: “I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration, and therefore … I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning. I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week.â€
But just an hour before the announcement, the White House announced that Bolton would be appearing at a 1:30 p.m. news conference alongside Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. If Bolton was on his way out as of Monday night, why did the White House press office not seem to know about it at 11 a.m. Tuesday?
...
Bolton, though, has always been extremely outspoken about his foreign policy, rarely shying away from taking unpopular positions. In contrast to the growing number of yes-men and -women who surround Trump, Bolton’s a true believer who logic suggests could ruffle some feathers in the weeks and months ahead — particularly if he views Trump as capitulating to America’s enemies.
More at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/10/something-is-fishy-about-trumps-john-bolton-announcement/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/10/something-is-fishy-about-trumps-john-bolton-announcement/)
Something a bit off with this; though, Trump could have let Bolton lead the meeting and fired him...
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You'd think someone that made Fame & $$$ saying 'You're Fired' wouldn't result to twitter, but maybe he's just tired of firing people.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/amplify_video_thumb/973556710047547398/img/KXOowEb0yvcWV1Xp.jpg)
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Where is Frank?
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Allegra from FR was a contractor.... not sure exactly what her role was....
Allegra and I were friends in real life, long before posting in internet forums. We worked together more than once.
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'Great day for America': Tucker Carlson praises Trump firing of Bolton
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/great-day-for-america-tucker-carlson-praises-trump-firing-of-bolton (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/great-day-for-america-tucker-carlson-praises-trump-firing-of-bolton)
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'Great day for America': Tucker Carlson praises Trump firing of Bolton
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/great-day-for-america-tucker-carlson-praises-trump-firing-of-bolton (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/great-day-for-america-tucker-carlson-praises-trump-firing-of-bolton)
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-1-iz80u6s#)
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I’m listening to the opening monologue from Andrew Wilkow’s show from yesterday and he was talking about Bolton being let go. He mentioned that he and David Webb and a few other talk radio hosts had an off the record meeting with the President. He noted they aren’t allowed to quote directly anything Trump said...but...he said Trump... when it comes to foreign policy is “a lot more like Ron and Rand Paul that people realize or that he (Trump) will ever get credit for.â€
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Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-1-iz80u6s#)
To a carpenter, every problem looks like a nail that needs hammering. John Bolton is that carpenter, and according to him the Middle East is that nail that needed hammering.
It took 18 years, but Americans are expressing weariness with pointless wars in the Middle East. We don’t want any more Mideast wars, no more wasted lives, no more missing limbs, no more wasted treasure. No more regime change.
Trump was right to fire that career war agitator, John Bolton.
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I’m listening to the opening monologue from Andrew Wilkow’s show from yesterday and he was talking about Bolton being let go. He mentioned that he and David Webb and a few other talk radio hosts had an off the record meeting with the President. He noted they aren’t allowed to quote directly anything Trump said...but...he said Trump... when it comes to foreign policy is “a lot more like Ron and Rand Paul that people realize or that he (Trump) will ever get credit for.â€
And THAT is the problem IMHO!
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Trump was right to fire that career war agitator, John Bolton.
I respectfully but strongly disagree and believe that the president will come to realize, and never admit publically, that he made a BIG mistake here.
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I respectfully but strongly disagree and believe that the president will come to realize, and never admit publically, that he made a BIG mistake here.
Trump.....pathological narcissism at it's zenith.
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And THAT is the problem IMHO!
It's a huge problem is he has their views on foreign policy.
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I’m listening to the opening monologue from Andrew Wilkow’s show from yesterday and he was talking about Bolton being let go. He mentioned that he and David Webb and a few other talk radio hosts had an off the record meeting with the President. He noted they aren’t allowed to quote directly anything Trump said...but...he said Trump... when it comes to foreign policy is “a lot more like Ron and Rand Paul that people realize or that he (Trump) will ever get credit for.â€
That is a yuge problem.
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I respectfully but strongly disagree and believe that the president will come to realize, and never admit publically, that he made a BIG mistake here.
Yep... I don't mind a more civil-libertarian approach wrt foreign policy... In fact, I would prefer it.
But not when it comes to the war we already have. Bad move. Very bad.
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That is a yuge problem.
It's a shame they can't directly quote the President from their meeting. I'd love to know what specifically was said that led Wilkow to draw that conclusion.
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This vet was upset when Bolton was initially chosen, article just from March, 2018. Reasons Bolton was chosen in the first place are opinionated reasons, has experience, can navigate the bureaucracy, counter-balance,
John Bolton Should Be Ashamed Of Himself. But That Would Require A Sense Of Shame
Paul Szoldra
March 23, 2018 at 12:53 PM
...
Next month, Bolton will once again be back in the White House, this time as President Donald Trump's national security adviser, having in the past served as President George W. Bush's ambassador to the United Nations.
Should we be worried? Yeah, we should.
We should be worried about tens of millions of civilian and U.S. military deaths in the opening salvo of a potential war with North Korea, of which Bolton argued for late last year in The Wall Street Journal, where he reasoned that a pre-emptive strike against Pyongyang was an acceptable military option.
Read more at: https://taskandpurpose.com/john-bolton-shame
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Another take:
Speak Up, John Bolton
The national-security professionals who have left this administration owe the American people the truth about the president.
Sep 10, 2019 David Frum Staff writer at The Atlantic
Whatever else he has been through in his career, John Bolton is a patriot. He has been impelled by a strong vision of the national interest. He has run career risks and sacrificed life opportunities for the sake of his principles. He went to work for President Donald Trump, aware of important disagreements between them. Bolton believed that his knowledge of government and his fierce work ethic would prevail over Trump’s bad impulses.
That gamble has now been exposed as a bad one. Bolton has lost the debate over North Korea, over Ukraine, over Russia, over trade. While Bolton agreed with Trump about Brexit, Bolton is a friend of the United Kingdom, who has witnessed Trump use Brexit to squeeze Britain, not support it. Bolton protested as Trump tried incompetently to grab the controls of negotiations with the Taliban—and as Trump has mused aloud about no-precondition presidential-level talks with the Iranian regime.
Bolton has been a loyal soldier for his president through all these difficulties. His reward was open disrespect and then public humiliation.
Read more at: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/bolton-must-now-speak-out/597784/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/bolton-must-now-speak-out/597784/)
Good article, the Atlantic can have those from time to time.
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Trump blasts 'Mr. Tough Guy' Bolton: 'He made some very big mistakes'
Trump said North Korean leader Kim Jong Un no longer wanted to work with Bolton after the Libya remark.
“As soon as he mentioned that, the Libyan model, what a disaster. Take a look at what happened to Gadhafi," Trump said. “I don’t blame Kim Jong Un for what he said after that. And he wanted nothing to do with John Bolton. And that's not a question of being tough. That’s a question of being not smart to say something like that.â€
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/460921-trump-bolton-wasnt-in-line-with-my-agenda
Imagine trying to keep a straight face, after Trump tells YOU that you’ve said something dumb.
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I don't think Trump will be a Rand/Ron Paul-type clone.
He cancelled the Iran nuke deal, I"ll bet Rand and Ron would NOT want that.
I do keep a cautious eye on Trump in some aspects, I won't enumerate them but I can give an example, this in Syria where he seemed to impulsively state we'd be out in 60-90 days, that was an extremely poor decision and as we know, Mattis walked because of this. Dumb, an inept and uninformed decision. I was ready to dump him until the reversal seemed to come rather quickly.
Nato, Ukraine, I have my concerns. Like Mattis said too, we need our allies. We'll see, I hope, for example, a president couldn't unilaterally cancel membership in Nato. I can see a president trying to enhance our position in saying, "we dl all this, don't we deserve more consideration" and things like that.
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Another take:
Good article, the Atlantic can have those from time to time.
Frum is a four letter word.
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Joyce Karam
@Joyce_Karam
#Trump takes out Pompeo from running to replace Bolton. Updated list:
• B Hook
• S Biegun
• R O’Brien
• R Blair
• K Kellogg
• J Keane
• R Grenell
• D Macgregor
• HR McMaster
• F Fleitz
• P Dobriansky
• R Waddell
Trump said there are 15 candidates, up from 5 on Wed.
https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1172271848404520960
Second name on the list, I can go with that, looks like @Bigun 's under consideration.
I could even support Cyber Liberty.