The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: Gefn on April 15, 2019, 05:24:53 pm
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Apparently breaking story, Notre Dame cathedral is on fire. 22222frying pan
Breaking but it looks bad,
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925015/Fire-breaks-historic-Notre-Dame-cathedral-Paris.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925015/Fire-breaks-historic-Notre-Dame-cathedral-Paris.html)
Photos attached
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I’ve been there on my trip to Paris. Beautiful cathedral. Loved the gargoyles
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BBC tv live link
https://youtu.be/xGbmWOfdXcQ
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I’ve been there on my trip to Paris. Beautiful cathedral. Loved the gargoyles
Same here. What a tragedy.
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Same here. What a tragedy.
@skeeter I know. I was just watching the BBC link. They are speculating it might have been arson. It’s just speculation so I am taking this with a grain of salt.
As of now there is only one fire truck there, they said.
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@skeeter I know. I was just watching the BBC link. They are speculating it might have been arson. It’s just speculation so I am taking this with a grain of salt.
As of now there is only one fire truck there, they said.
ABC says they suspect the fire may have started in an area where there’s renovation work going on but there has been news over the past few weeks of old churches in France being intentionally torched.
Anyone wanting accurate news should steer well clear of ABC.
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Just devastating.
(https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105852879-1555349503303gettyimages-1137422878.jpeg?v=1555349558&w=740&h=466)
(https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/105852910-1555350291548gettyimages-1137422977.jpeg?v=1555350321&w=740&h=493)
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Islam is a Religion of Peace..
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We just expect everything to last forever. **nononono*
... The cause was not immediately clear, but officials say that it could be linked to renovation work. ...
Last year, the Catholic Church in France launched an urgent appeal for funds to save the cathedral, which was starting to crumble. ...
The Notre-Dame cathedral, which is visited by millions of people every year, is undergoing renovations after cracks began to appear in the stone, sparking fears the structure could become unstable.
More at BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47941794)
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Probably (I hope) not related, but fyi:
Catholic Churches Are Being Desecrated Across France—and Officials Don’t Know Why
By Brendan Cole On 3/21/19 at 9:04 AM EDT
France has seen a spate of attacks against Catholic churches since the start of the year, vandalism that has included arson and desecration.
Vandals have smashed statues, knocked down tabernacles, scattered or destroyed the Eucharist and torn down crosses, sparking fears of a rise in anti-Catholic sentiment in the country.
Last Sunday, the historic Church of St. Sulpice in Paris was set on fire just after midday mass on Sunday, Le Parisien reported, although no one was injured. Police are still investigating the attack, which firefighters have confidently attributed to arson. ...
Newsweek (https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attacks-catholic-churches-france-sees-altars-desecrated-christ-statue-1370800)
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https://www.france24.com/en/live (https://www.france24.com/en/live)
LIVE VIDEO
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Breaking News Notre Dame cathedral’s roof and central spire have collapsed
Alerts on my iPhone
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... The famous Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire, with one worker claiming that the blaze was deliberately set.
The roof of the historic building has completely collapsed.
“The cause is not yet clear, but officials say it could be linked to renovation work,†reports the BBC.
However, TIME columnist Christopher J. Hale tweeted, “A Jesuit friend in Paris who works in #NotreDame told me cathedral staff said the fire was intentionally set.†... Hale deleted the tweet within minutes after it attracted attention. ...
More (https://summit.news/2019/04/15/notre-dame-cathedral-in-paris-on-fire-worker-claims-it-was-deliberately-started/)
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I suspect that everyone who's visited Paris has been to the cathedral. It's just too magnificent not to see it.
I think I've been there 3 or 4 times.
Watching the video of the spire collapsing reminded me a bit of watching the World Trade Center go down. Just stunning.
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@Freya
Been there twice. When one walks in and looks up, the ceiling appears to be in heaven; it is way up there. No water hose could get that high. The world famous organ is likely gone. Will be interesting to see who started this fire. I am reading other Catholic churches in France have been burned in the recent past.
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This is horrific. The cathedral (or the ruin) is surrounded by water. Was there really no fire mitigation plan?
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Islam is a Religion of Peace..
It could be the tipping point ... that convinces the French to adopt shariah.
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@Victoria33 I went to Paris for my 40th birthday. Spent half a day walking around Notre Dame and climbing up to see the gargoyles. I didn’t see the hunchback but I did think of the movie.
This is heartbreaking. I hope some of the religious icons can be saved.
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Islam is a Religion of Peace..
That's one possibility (see my story above about the spate of arson and vandalism at Catholic churches in France)*. Or it may have been accidental, relating to renovations. Considering the violent turn of the yellow vest protests, I wouldn't entirely rule out the leftist fringe of that movement (though that may be very unlikely).
*Also this:Anger as France sees 10 Catholic churches attacked in ONE week - 'God will forgive, NOT ME
A SEVEN day spree of vandalism has seen Catholic churches targeted across France sparking fears of a fresh wave of anti-Christian sentiment in the country, including one church being defiled with human EXCREMENT.
By Joe Gamp
At least 10 incidents of vandalism and desecration of Catholic churches have been reported across the Channel since the beginning of February. French Roman-Catholic newspaper La Croix International reported how the attacks on churches took place across France. Senseless acts included the desecration of altars, the defacing of Christ on the cross and in an extreme case, human excrement being spread across the walls of a holy place of worship. ...
The fresh wave of attacks come two years a campaign of Christian persecution against Catholic churches across France and Belgium in 2016.
The incidents were said to be carried out by the Islamic State (IS).
One of the most gruesome attacks included the murder of Fr. Jacques Hamel, who was killed by jihadists while holding Mass at a church in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray in Normandy.
More from the Express (U.K.) (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1102958/christian-persecution-france-catholic-church-christianity-religion-edouard-phillipe-isis)
PUBLISHED: 17:31, Wed, Mar 20, 2019 | UPDATED: 19:36, Mon, Apr 15, 2019
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This is horrific. The cathedral (or the ruin) is surrounded by water. Was there really no fire mitigation plan?
Someone with firefighting expertise has a lengthy thread on Twitter on that subject.
https://twitter.com/GreggFavre/status/1117847726786371585
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France24 reporting the fire started just five minutes after the cathedral was closed for the day.
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Heart-breaking.
8888crybaby
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CBS internet just reported the walls are on fire now, they are trying to salvage the art inside.
It looked bad , I had to turn the live report on tv off. So dang sad,
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CBS internet tv also said a lot of pilgrims come to the church for Holy Week
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Someone with firefighting expertise has a lengthy thread on Twitter on that subject.
https://twitter.com/GreggFavre/status/1117847726786371585
I keep thinking about how St Paul's Cathedral was miraculously saved during The Blitz.
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CBS internet tv also said a lot of pilgrims come to the church for Holy Week
One of the TV people I'm listening to said this is one of the most visited weeks for the cathedral. Fortunately, the building had closed for the day to the public when the fire became apparent, and they're still saying no injuries occurred.
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Anyone watching FOX News?
The Columbia Bugle 🇺🇸 @ColumbiaBugle
11m11 minutes ago
Shepard Smith cuts off French Elected Official after he brings up fact that Churches in France have been desecrated in past year.
“Of course you will hear the story of the politically correct which will tell you it is probably an accident" #NotreDame
Shep seems to know authoritatively that the fire is just an accident, nothing to see here.
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I keep thinking about how St Paul's Cathedral was miraculously saved during The Blitz.
IMO this tragedy is a powerful symbol.
Be the culprits anarchists, Islamists, militant atheists... it doesn't matter. Western culture is too weak & corrupt to defend itself anymore.
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850 bleep years old, twice the age of our country, gone in a few hours.
Of course, Trump the firefighting expert had to open his big yapper on the subject.
Sigh...
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There won't be much to save or from which to rebuild once the fire is out. Even though the walls of the cathedral are of stone, the heat of the blaze will weaken the mortar and the stones themselves. Even if they don't collapse, they may be unsuitable to "build on" afterwards.
An accident, or...???
I'm wondering if that may be possible to ascertain with even the best investigative techniques after a fire of that intensity. Perhaps a worker/eyewitness will come forth with information as to how the fire started?
If the muzzies know what's wise (they usually don't), they won't celebrate this even if it was only "an accident". Doing so may turn a good number of native French (who may to this point have been passive) against them, in ways that may not be peaceful.
Watching Notre Dame burn is like watching Western civilization go down in flames. A harbinger of things to come?
A couple of pics (posted full-size for clarity):
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gh2BrJcc/ct-notre-dame-fire-paris-20190415.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3rb8jMTT/D4-Nq8r3-WAAAx-VDi.jpg)
Adieu...
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How could they let this happen? I get that it's old but...
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Am I going to regret asking what he said?
Lol, something about needing flying water tankers like they use in fighting forest fires.
I don't even know if that would work or not, of course I'm not a firefighter so I don't open my big mouth on the subject.
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Heart-breaking.
8888crybaby
@Polly Ticks
Isn’t it? 😭 As bad as the photos are, watching in real time is worse.
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Anyone watching FOX News?Shep seems to know authoritatively that the fire is just an accident, nothing to see here.
Yes, I saw that. Shemp's behavior made me turn the channel to BBC News. Interestingly, just after I turned to it to them they did a phone interview with the author Ken Follett. He had some interesting details on how the fire would burn (he researched it for a novel, apparently) and then said, paraphrasing, that the apparent fast spread of the fire may indicate something of which we are not yet aware (that's how he put it.) The BBC presenter ended the interview as soon as he suggested that. :shrug:
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Anyone watching FOX News?Shep seems to know authoritatively that the fire is just an accident, nothing to see here.
Either France is obscenely negligent with a national landmark like this or yes, this was more than just an accident.
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Yes, I saw that. Shemp's behavior made me turn the channel to BBC News. Interestingly, just after I turned to it to them they did a phone interview with the author Ken Follett. He had some interesting details on how the fire would burn (he researched it for a novel, apparently) and then said, paraphrasing, that the apparent fast spread of the fire may indicate something of which we are not yet aware (that's how he put it.) The BBC presenter ended the interview as soon as he suggested that. :shrug:
An architect interviewed on France 24 explained how the framework from medieval times is wood.
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AP news alert on phone “Firefighters may not be able to saveNotre Dame cathedral, French Ministry official says.
888cryingkitty 888cryingkitty 888cryingkitty
Sky news has the same headline as of now
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10 French churches have been attacked just in the past week
Over 50 French churches have been attacked since the beginning of the year
It's Holy week
The fire started just 5 minutes after the church closed for the day
The entire structure is engulfed in flames and there is no way that anyone can get inside to look around to assess the cause
...and yet...
the fire is being attributed to renovations.
= = =
Either:
1. One or more of the renovators SAW the fire started. Perhaps a container of paint thinner tipped over and sparks started the fire and no one could find a fire extinguisher, or
2. The police and the complicit media are attempting to avoid a violent backlash until more details can be found
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Roof collapses at Paris’ Notre Dame Cathedral as massive fire rages
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/15/paris-notre-dame-cathedral-on-fire-reuters.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/15/paris-notre-dame-cathedral-on-fire-reuters.html)
The roof of Paris’ Notre Dame Cathedral collapsed Monday as a massive fire ripped through the structure.
The city’s mayor and firefighters warned people to stay away from the area.
Firefighters may not be able to save the cathedral, according to a French Interior Ministry official....
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@QueenCatofAragon
Any word on the gargoyles?
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Any word on the gargoyles?
I heard on one of the live news feeds that at least some of the gargoyles had been replaced with downspouts because they were crumbling. Not sure.
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@QueenCatofAragon
Any word on the gargoyles?
@Freya
Someone said the gargoyles were falling and referenced this article, but I don’t see it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna994646?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna994646?__twitter_impression=true)
Removed my post from the French journalist who said the art and artifacts were safe. Looks like that isn’t true.
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@Freya
Someone said the gargoyles were falling and referenced this article, but I don’t see it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna994646?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna994646?__twitter_impression=true)
Removed my post from the French journalist who said the art and artifacts were safe. Looks like that isn’t true.
I really liked the gargoyles.
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I understand the site is surrounded by water, so to speak.
Why the hell wasn't/isn't there any contingency plans to have appropriate fire-fighting pumps and equipment to protect this almost 900 year old Masterpiece?
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I really liked the gargoyles.
@Freya
They even had names.
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I understand the site is surrounded by water, so to speak.
Why the hell wasn't/isn't there any contingency plans to have appropriate fire-fighting pumps and equipment to protect this almost 900 year old Masterpiece?
Yes that is what I don't get. Now are they going to work on a solution for the other churches, or wait for them to be torched also?
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Yes that is what I don't get. Now are they going to work on a solution for the other churches, or wait for them to be torched also?
Reading that FOXNEWS... Shep, Cavuto will not even entertain any discussion about Islamic terrorism.
FACT: There has been a steady increase in attacks and desecration of churches and Christian cemeteries over the past few months over France.
FACT: This is Easter Week.
Eff you, FOX NEWS!
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Some idiot on CNN was blathering about Catholic-Protestant tensions, islamophobia and right wing polemics - all in the same breath and all, supposedly, having some bearing on this fire.
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There are really no words . . .
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4OJ-VTXsAcTrTu.jpg:large)
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Some idiot on CNN was blathering about Catholic-Protestant tensions, islamophobia and right wing polemics - all in the same breath and all, supposedly, having some bearing on this fire.
Have they blamed Trump yet?
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There are really no words . . .
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4OJ-VTXsAcTrTu.jpg:large)
Horrifying.
All that history. All the years of reverence and worship.
What a devastating loss.......
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Just soul crushing. That picture... Satan is in there somewhere.
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Just soul crushing. That picture... Satan is in there somewhere.
Indeed.
Evil is the victor here.
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Tomorrow’s newspapers.
(If they don’t come out maybe someone can post them)
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CNN
Bell towers are saved.
NBC structure of Notre Dame saved, police chief says
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Horrifying.
All that history. All the years of reverence and worship.
What a devastating loss.......
@musiclady
The reverence and worship in that cathedral, yes, of course.
But just the majesty and beauty of its design and appearance is almost as devastating a loss.
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@musiclady
The reverence and worship in that cathedral, yes, of course.
But just the majesty and beauty of its design and appearance is almost as devastating a loss.
If they have the Will, it can be restored.
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There are really no words . . .
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4OJ-VTXsAcTrTu.jpg:large)
Just got to a computer. This is horrible. The whole thing?
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Terrible, terrible news. I am sitting in an airport on a 3 hour layover, watching the news with my eyes misting.
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" Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." (Mark 13:2 KJV)
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If they have the Will, it can be restored.
Forget the will, it's the bill(ions) of dollars and extensively laborious work (that no one really does anymore) that make it unlikely.
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Probably the most devasting loss of a cultural iconic building in several hundred years. Loss is not quantifiable.
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@musiclady
The reverence and worship in that cathedral, yes, of course.
But just the majesty and beauty of its design and appearance is almost as devastating a loss.
I was just watching CNN, and they stopped their conversation just to listen to the people in their loss, singing hymns together and praying.
But as you have said, the majesty and beauty of the design..... the magnificence of the structure, even if it is "replaced" will never be the same.
I have been weeping at this historic loss.
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Just got to a computer. This is horrible. The whole thing?
They think the bell towers will survive. The fire is now "under control."
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Probably the most devasting loss of a cultural iconic building in several hundred years. Loss is not quantifiable.
Worst church fire I think since St.Paul’s cathedral burned down in the London Fire on September 2, 1666.
But then Sir Christopher Wren made a magnificent church out of the ashes.
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@Victoria33 I went to Paris for my 40th birthday. Spent half a day walking around Notre Dame and climbing up to see the gargoyles. I didn’t see the hunchback but I did think of the movie.
This is heartbreaking. I hope some of the religious icons can be saved.
I haven't read the whole thread yet...but did you get you see Little DiDo? A replica of he/she/it sits on my bookcase. A really good legend.I always wanted to go see it. Looks like that won't happen now. (:
It amazes me that a structure that has withstood world wars, revolutions and who knows what else is burning to the ground. Very sad. @Freya
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Worst church fire I think since St.Paul’s cathedral burned down in the London Fire on September 2, 1666.
But then Sir Christopher Wren made a magnificent church out of the ashes.
And like I said before, it was a miracle it survived The Blitz.
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Worst church fire I think since St.Paul’s cathedral burned down in the London Fire on September 2, 1666.
But then Sir Christopher Wren made a magnificent church out of the ashes.
The photos of that magnificent structure during the Blitzkrieg are awe-inspiring.
I was there in 1968 on the same choir tour that took us to Paris where we saw Notre Dame....
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Horrifying.
All that history. All the years of reverence and worship.
What a devastating loss.......
Yes, this is beyond words.
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https://www.eutouring.com/facts_notre_dame_cathedral.html (https://www.eutouring.com/facts_notre_dame_cathedral.html)
If they try to rebuild, they’ll have a building, but it won’t be Notre Dame. There’s no replacing history.
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There is hopeful precedent for Notre Dame's restoration.
I give you Dresden's Frauenkirche, 1957 . . .
(https://i.redd.it/fc4q1fa50yyz.jpg)
. . . and the Frauenkirche today . . .
(https://www.sightseeing-point-dresden.de/wp-content/uploads/dresden_3.jpg)
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CBS internet just reported the walls are on fire now, they are trying to salvage the art inside.
That was my first thought --- I hope they can save the priceless art. The rest of it can be rebuilt.
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BNL NEWS †@BreakingNLive
23m23 minutes ago
BREAKING: AMAZING: Interior of the Notre Dame Cathedral still pretty much in tact. Pulpit, part of the Alter still in tact. Cross still standing: #NotreDame
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3BQZL5n/D4-Oo5-Ax-Xk-AI0c3p.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/9MsGW9n5/D4-Oo5-As-Xk-AEn9-OR.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bvBnTb8D/D4-Oo5-At-Wk-AIZqgp.jpg)
BNL NEWS †@BreakingNLive
7m7 minutes ago
CORRECTION: Altar, not ‘Alter’
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BNL NEWSâ€
@BreakingNLive
WATCH: Footage shows a glimpse of the inside of the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris in the aftermath of a huge fire. Iconically, a cross can be seen in the background:
Video at link: https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1117903565916266496
2:32 PM - 15 Apr 2019
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Many photos here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925015/Fire-breaks-historic-Notre-Dame-cathedral-Paris.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6925015/Fire-breaks-historic-Notre-Dame-cathedral-Paris.html)
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I was going through some photos from trips to Paris. There must be a rule that tourists get photos of themselves in front of the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame. Does anyone remember a poster at TOS by the name "Timeout"? We happened to be visiting Paris the same time she was there in 2002 (before my final banning from FR), so we met at Notre Dame, walked around for a while, and then had lunch together at a nearby restaurant. One of the photos is of Timeout and me with the cathedral in the background. **nononono*
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Even as an evangelical Protestant, this is a kick in the gut.
Muslims better pray that they aren't responsible for it.
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I was going through some photos from trips to Paris. There must be a rule that tourists get photos of themselves in front of the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame. Does anyone remember a poster at TOS by the name "Timeout"? We happened to be visiting Paris the same time she was there in 2002 (before my final banning from FR), so we met at Notre Dame, walked around for a while, and then had lunch together at a nearby restaurant. One of the photos is of Timeout and me with the cathedral in the background. **nononono*
I didn't get a picture in front of either, but I do have one of me in front of the Castle Doune.
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Even as an evangelical Protestant, this is a kick in the gut.
Muslims better pray that they aren't responsible for it.
If they are, nothing will happen. A few years in jail---maybe. I'm seeing white Westerners celebrating the death of a symbol of white Western culture so we can start fresh without hate.
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There is hopeful precedent for Notre Dame's restoration.
I give you Dresden's Frauenkirche, 1957 . . .
(https://i.redd.it/fc4q1fa50yyz.jpg)
. . . and the Frauenkirche today . . .
(https://www.sightseeing-point-dresden.de/wp-content/uploads/dresden_3.jpg)
@EasyAce
That's...amazing. Literally.
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There are really no words . . .
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4OJ-VTXsAcTrTu.jpg:large)
A blazing cross.
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The Pope hasn't commented on the fire, for some reason.
Vatican Responds to Notre Dame Cathedral Fire
By Erin Laviola
Updated Apr 15, 2019 at 7:58pm
Catholics around the world and witnesses in Paris watched in horror as the iconic and historical Notre Dame Cathedral burned during the evening of April 15, 2019. Officials said the towers were safe, but the spire collapsed and the roof caved in.
It remained to be seen how much of the original structure could be salvaged, or whether sacred relics inside had been destroyed.
Pope Francis has not yet personally commented on the devastation. But the Vatican early issued a statement that read in part, “The Holy See has seen with shock and sadness the news of the terrible fire that has devastated the Cathedral of Notre Dame, symbol of Christianity in France and in the world.†Alessandro Gisotti, the director of the Holy See Press Office, added that the Vatican was praying for the firefighters and expressed “closeness with the French Catholics and with the Parisian population.†...
Heavy (https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/pope-francis-vatican-notre-dame/)
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I'm seeing two things that caused the fire:
1. It was arson
2. It was an accident.
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Have they blamed Trump yet?
Sort of.
ABC Nightly News made a big deal out of a suggestion that Trump twittered.
Trump tweeted that France ought to get a bucket of water from a helicopter, like they do with forest fires.
Then ABC brought in an expert to note that water is very heavy and dropping the water on the fire would likely cause the walls to collapse.
Fine. That's an appropriate bit of journalism. If it ended there.
But then ABC flashed the tweet again. All in bold. Then repeated the expert's testimony. Then Trump's tweet again.
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If they are, nothing will happen. A few years in jail---maybe. I'm seeing white Westerners celebrating the death of a symbol of white Western culture so we can start fresh without hate.
I don't know. The French are weird. They will surrender at most things, but some things will set them off and they will attempt to eradicate you.
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By Alexia Hernandez
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/salma-hayek-apos-husband-fran-002302536.html (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/salma-hayek-apos-husband-fran-002302536.html)
Salma Hayek‘s husband François-Henri Pinault has pledged €100 million (over US$113 million) to help rebuild the fallen Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris.
In a statement obtained by French newspaper Le Figaro, Pinault, 56, said, “My father (François Pinault) and myself have decided to unblock a sum of 100 million euros from our Artemis funds (the family holding company) to participate in the effort that will be necessary for the complete reconstruction of Notre-Dame.â€
Pinault’s donation is the first major one announced. Through Kering, an international luxury group, his family owns and controls a number of businesses including Gucci, Alexander McQueen, Stella McCartney, Saint Laurent and Balenciaga.
The elder Pinault, who is 82, is worth an estimated $37.3 billion, according to Bloomberg’s “Billionaires Index“.
Hayek, 52, shared an image of the burning cathedral on Instagram, writing in the caption, “As many others I’m in deep shock and sadness to witness the beauty of Notre-Dame turn into smoke. I love you Paris. Comme beaucoup d’autres, c’est avec effroi et tristesse que je regarde la beauté de Norte-Dame partir en fumée… Paris, je t’aime ! #notredame #paris.â€
The Oscar-nominated actress and the businessman have a residence near the cathedral and were married in Paris on February 14, 2009, at the City Hall of the Sixth Arrondissement, which is less than a mile away from the historic church . . .
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We will set up a topic sticky for the time being.
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BREAKING: AMAZING: Interior of the Notre Dame Cathedral still pretty much in tact. Pulpit, part of the Alter still in tact. Cross still standing: #NotreDame
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4Oo5AxXkAI0c3p.jpg)
https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1117922854715236352
The first reports said it would be the worse, total destruction. Well, it's pretty bad, however it is. I can't judge it. More photos at link.
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That's one possibility (see my story above about the spate of arson and vandalism at Catholic churches in France)*. Or it may have been accidental, relating to renovations. Considering the violent turn of the yellow vest protests, I wouldn't entirely rule out the leftist fringe of that movement (though that may be very unlikely).
*Also this:More from the Express (U.K.) (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1102958/christian-persecution-france-catholic-church-christianity-religion-edouard-phillipe-isis)
PUBLISHED: 17:31, Wed, Mar 20, 2019 | UPDATED: 19:36, Mon, Apr 15, 2019
@mountaineer
This is to be expected once a nation allows enough Muslims in to where they reach the point they obtain political power. It has happened everywhere masses of Muslims have been allowed to enter,and it is only a matter of time before it happens in America.
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France24 reporting the fire started just five minutes after the cathedral was closed for the day.
@mountaineer
Translation,a worker started the fire just before he left work.
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850 bleep years old, twice the age of our country, gone in a few hours.
Of course, Trump the firefighting expert had to open his big yapper on the subject.
Sigh...
@Weird Tolkienish Figure
<This is not the thread for this>
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@Weird Tolkienish Figure
<This is not the thread for this>
Drinking again, Pete?
<This is not the thread for this>
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850 bleep years old, twice the age of our country, gone in a few hours.
Of course, Trump the firefighting expert had to open his big yapper on the subject.
Sigh...
-----------------------------------
On the mark, as ground was broken in 1163
and Notre-Dame is 4X older than we are.
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Latest news.
In English, France 24:
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8yyiEfHIRA#)
AFP Updates:
https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/macron-vows-rebuild-notre-dame-after-devastating-fire-doc-1fo2eb5 (https://www.afp.com/en/news/15/macron-vows-rebuild-notre-dame-after-devastating-fire-doc-1fo2eb5)
A rebuild of the parts damaged, the landmark may be off limits for 15 years for visits.
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Well, actually, according to some fire experts, Trump's proposal was not feasible. I agree with @Weird Tolkienish Figure Trump is once again nattering about a subject he knows nothing about.
His basic idea of getting a lot of water on the fire fast isn't so bad, really.
Problem is, that the stone might not handle either the thermal shock of massive amounts of cold water dumped on it, nor the weight.
If you look at the aerial shots of the fire, it appears the wooden roof portion is burning and collapsed onto the stone interior roof/ceiling. That makes access difficult, but dumping water on it from above in mass quantities could do even more devastating damage. From the interior shots, one portion of the ceiling collapsed, the darker area in the aerial shots, but otherwise, getting water on the burning roof materials has to be done from the aerial towers and monitor nozzles that can be deployed to put water over the walls, and carefully, to keep from overloading the structure with water weight (at 8.35 pounds per gallon).
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She also played Esmeralda in a TV Movie version or The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
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(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57101662_2457605844262721_3537096118775054336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=662740a03956bc635d9daa7584400ad0&oe=5D3510CF)
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Billionaire Arnault's family and LVMH to donate 200 mln euros for Paris' Notre-Dame
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-notredame-arnault/billionaire-arnaults-family-and-lvmh-to-donate-200-mln-euros-for-paris-notre-dame-idUSKCN1RS0H8 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-notredame-arnault/billionaire-arnaults-family-and-lvmh-to-donate-200-mln-euros-for-paris-notre-dame-idUSKCN1RS0H8)
French billionaire businessman Bernard Arnault’s family and his LVMH luxury goods group will donate 200 million euros ($226 million) to help repair Paris’ Notre-Dame cathedral, said a statement issued on behalf of Arnault.
“The Arnault family and the LVMH group would like to show their solidarity ata this time of national tragedy, and are joining up to help rebuild this extraordinary cathedral, which is a symbol of France, of its heritage and of French unity,†said the statement....
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I've been in love with Salma Hayek since she caused that traffic accident in 'Desperado'.
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I’m so happy they are rebuilding. I hope I can see it again in my lifetime
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We will set up a topic sticky for the time being.
Thank you @TomSea 888heartkitty
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I came across this quote from Victor Hugo, which best encapsulated Notre Dame’s splendor
“...There are surely few wonderful pages in the book of architecture as the facades of the Cathedralâ€
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Well, actually, according to some fire experts, Trump's proposal was not feasible. I agree with @Weird Tolkienish Figure Trump is once again nattering about a subject he knows nothing about.
@Applewood @Weird Tolkienish Figure
<This is not the thread for this>,but this story is about the Cathedral,and speculation about the source of the fire. Unless you think Trump started the fire,and there is a possibility you might think that,he has nothing to do with this story and his comment means no more than yours or mine.
MY speculation is it was started by a Muslim worker. France,being the PC Palace that it is might try to deny it,but if it was Muslims,you can bet they will take the credit for it as soon as they are out of France and safe back in some Islamic hellhole.
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His basic idea of getting a lot of water on the fire fast isn't so bad, really.
Problem is, that the stone might not handle either the thermal shock of massive amounts of cold water dumped on it, nor the weight.
If you look at the aerial shots of the fire, it appears the wooden roof portion is burning and collapsed onto the stone interior roof/ceiling. That makes access difficult, but dumping water on it from above in mass quantities could do even more devastating damage. From the interior shots, one portion of the ceiling collapsed, the darker area in the aerial shots, but otherwise, getting water on the burning roof materials has to be done from the aerial towers and monitor nozzles that can be deployed to put water over the walls, and carefully, to keep from overloading the structure with water weight (at 8.35 pounds per gallon).
@Smokin Joe
I don't question anything you wrote about the action of the fire because I agree with it.
MY question is "Why the HELL hasn't France installed fire suppression/sprinkler systems in there to prevent what just happened? After all,Norte Dame WAS a historic worldwide landmark/heritage building that literally can't be replaced. Yeah,a replica can be constructed,but it will just be a replica,not the real thing.
Leaving Notre Dame exposed to fire like that in this day and time borders on being a criminal act.
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(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/57101662_2457605844262721_3537096118775054336_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=662740a03956bc635d9daa7584400ad0&oe=5D3510CF)
@DCPatriot
If this doesn't wake up the French people to the danger of Muslim immigrants/Islam,go ahead and shovel dirt in their faces because there just isn't any hope for them.
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And like I said before, it was a miracle it survived The Blitz.
And the Eiffel Tower and the other churches. Sacre coeur, in Paris is beautiful.
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Thank you for that explanation. I had watched and read some of the input from experts, but my muddled brain couldn't quite absorb it. Your explanation reduces all the jargon to an explanation even I can understand. LOL
Just too bad Trump didn't talk to someone who knows this stuff before he said anything. Or maybe he should have kept his opinion to himself and just offered condolences.
@Applewood
WHY does it matter what he said? He is a President,not a fire marshal or fire fighter. Now,if he,like me and many others,just came out and said as a sitting President of the US that the fire was the work of Muslim extremists,THAT would be VERY wrong unless he has indisputable proof. Even then it would be a little questionable unless he had provided that evidence to the French authorities before he spoke.
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I just read this from 17 hours ago:
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-collapse-live-updates-today-2019-04-15/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/notre-dame-cathedral-fire-paris-collapse-live-updates-today-2019-04-15/)
Parisian authorities said they were ruling out arson and possible terror-related motives as possible causes -- at least at the moment -- and treating the blaze as an accident, according to The Associated Press.
@Applewood
Of course they did. They are French authorities,and are still looking around for someone to accept their surrender.
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Notre Dame’s burning spires force us all to face the truth about the West
By Jonathon Van Maren
With millions of others, I watched the sickening livestream yesterday of Notre Dame Cathedral ablaze in the centre of Paris. ...
It was inevitable that the searing images of the cathedral wreathed in flames, resembling a red-hot burning cross from the sky above, would incur end-of-civilization metaphors. They began before the fire was out. ...
“If someone was writing a novel about the collapse of Western civilisation, Notre Dame would burn at this stage,†wrote Nick O’Malley of the Sydney Morning Herald. And it is true. In the despairing faces of those who watched the spire crack and fall seemed to be a recognition that the modern European lacks the beliefs and the values that sent such towers soaring skyward centuries ago. Indeed, only 18% of Europeans who identify as Christian still even bother to attend church services. The great cathedrals are now only tourist attractions, museums of a bygone era.
In perhaps the most ironic of responses to the tragedy of 800 years of history going up in smoke, progressive commentator Ian Millhiser tweeted that, “The fact that a human achievement that took a century to build can be burnt away in a few hours is such a horrible metaphor for democracy in 2019.â€
And it takes a rootless progressive to look at a burning church and conclude that the politics of the current year are being symbolized there rather than the relentless smashing of our collective Judeo-Christian heritage by progressives like himself over the past century. It is the progressives that have played the role of iconoclast and demanded that we do away with the beliefs that gave rise to the awesome spires of Europe’s cathedrals, and it is they that have cheered the destruction and warmed themselves by the flames. What they have not realized is that once you start a fire, you cannot always control where it spreads and you may not have the power to put it out once it begins to consume things that you wanted to keep. ...
The Bridgehead (https://thebridgehead.ca/2019/04/16/notre-dames-burning-spires-force-us-all-to-face-the-truth-about-the-west/)
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The investigation begins.
Investigators face ‘long and complex’ quest for cause of Notre-Dame blaze
Date created : 16/04/2019 - 12:48Latest update : 16/04/2019 - 14:29
FRANCE 24
... Hundreds of firemen battled the blaze which consumed the roof and collapsed the eight-centuries-old cathedral's spire for more than twelve hours before bringing it under control, saving its bell towers and outer walls.
"Now we're in the phase of investigating," fire service spokesman Gabriel Plus told reporters, declaring only at around 10am on Tuesday that the fire had finally been extinguished.
The Paris prosecutor's office said it had launched an inquiry into the devastating blaze, with investigators working on the assumption for now that the fire was accidental.
"We are favouring the theory of an accident," prosecutor Remy Heitz told reporters, adding that fifty people were working on a "long" and "complex" investigation. ...
Investigators are focusing on whether the fire spread from the site of ongoing reconstruction work on the roof of the cathedral, which was covered in scaffolding, a source close to the investigation said.
Construction workers were questioned on Monday night, even as firefighters battled to contain the fire that was threatening the entire structure, some perched on cranes tens of metres off the ground. ...
More at France24 (https://www.france24.com/en/20190416-investigation-cause-notre-dame-blaze-fire-paris)
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Hope.
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2019/04/1862/1048/Notre-Dame-interior-1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Smoke is seen around the alter inside Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, Monday, April 15, 2019. The golden altar cross could be seen glowing as firefighters made their way in. (Philippe Wojazer/Pool via AP)
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Good news:
Images appear to show that Notre Dame’s prized rose windows survived the mammoth blaze that engulfed the cathedral on Monday.
The archbishop of Paris confirmed the fire had spared the three 13th-century stained glass masterpieces, French CNN affiliate BFM TV reported.
NOTRE DAME MIRACLE? ROSE WINDOWS' STAINED GLASS APPEARS TO HAVE SURVIVED SAVAGE BLAZE (https://www.newsweek.com/notre-dame-rose-windows-fire-paris-cathedral-1397773)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RAxO4XsAAdR-r.jpg)
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Hope.
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2019/04/1862/1048/Notre-Dame-interior-1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Smoke is seen around the alter inside Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, Monday, April 15, 2019. The golden altar cross could be seen glowing as firefighters made their way in. (Philippe Wojazer/Pool via AP)
Fall-to-my-knees Awesome.
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French billionaires donate hundreds of millions to rebuild Notre-Dame
https://news.sky.com/story/french-billionaire-gives-100-million-euros-to-rebuild-notre-dame-11695116
...Also, Patrick Pouyanné, chief executive of energy company Total, said his company would give €100m towards the cathedral's reconstruction....
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Fall-to-my-knees Awesome.
Amen!
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Good news:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4RAxO4XsAAdR-r.jpg)
Wow.
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The image of the golden cross and intact Rose window are heartening.
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Fall-to-my-knees Awesome.
Yes. Reminds me of the cross that survived the WTC collapse. I’m seeing a theme...
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That's kind of cool.
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Yes. Reminds me of the cross that survived the WTC collapse. I’m seeing a theme...
I thought the same thing.
(http://www.estatevaults.com/bol/_cross_ground_zero.jpg)
I have this framed and hanging on a wall. I bought a copy when we visited the gaping hole where the WTC stood on 3/11/02.
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Islamic State jihadis cheer destruction of Notre Dame cathedral as “retribution and punishmentâ€
Apr 16, 2019 9:00 am By Robert Spencer
Notably, they didn’t claim responsibility. Contrary to media myth, the Islamic State does not have a record of claiming responsibility for jihad attacks in which it was not involved. But they’re cheering nonetheless: “It’s time to say goodbye to your oratory polytheism.â€
The bemused pursuers of “Muslim-Christian dialogue†may find this puzzling, thinking that Muslims recognize Christians as fellow monotheists, and will dismiss it as “extremism.†However, the Qur’an itself, which any Christian involved in “interfaith dialogue†should read and study, but which none will, is quite clear that Christians are polytheists:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/04/islamic-state-jihadis-cheer-destruction-of-notre-dame-cathedral-as-retribution-and-punishment (https://www.jihadwatch.org/2019/04/islamic-state-jihadis-cheer-destruction-of-notre-dame-cathedral-as-retribution-and-punishment)
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European Churches: Vandalized, Defecated On, and Torched "Every Day"
by Raymond Ibrahim
April 14, 2019 at 5:00 am
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14044/europe-churches-vandalized (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14044/europe-churches-vandalized)
In Germany, four separate churches were vandalized and/or torched in March alone. "In this country," PI-News, a German news site, explained, "there is a creeping war against everything that symbolizes Christianity: attacks on mountain-summit crosses, on sacred statues by the wayside, on churches... and recently also on cemeteries."
In virtually every instance of church attacks, authorities and media obfuscate the identity of the vandals. In those rare instances when the Muslim (or "migrant") identity of the destroyers is leaked, the desecraters are then presented as suffering from mental health issues.
"Hardly anyone writes and speaks about the increasing attacks on Christian symbols. There is an eloquent silence in both France and Germany about the scandal of the desecrations and the origin of the perpetrators.... Not a word, not even the slightest hint that could in anyway lead to the suspicion of migrants... It is not the perpetrators who are in danger of being ostracized, but those who dare to associate the desecration of Christian symbols with immigrant imports. They are accused of hatred, hate speech and racism." -- PI News, March 24, 2019
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Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris on Fire, Worker Claims it Was “Deliberately†Started
Media reports claimed fire linked to “renovation†work.
on 15 April, 2019
Paul Joseph Watson
The famous Notre Dame cathedral in Paris is on fire, with one worker claiming that the blaze was deliberately set.
The roof of the historic building has completely collapsed.
“The cause is not yet clear, but officials say it could be linked to renovation work,†reports the BBC.
However, TIME columnist Christopher J. Hale tweeted, “A Jesuit friend in Paris who works in #NotreDame told me cathedral staff said the fire was intentionally set.â€
https://summit.news/2019/04/15/notre-dame-cathedral-in-paris-on-fire-worker-claims-it-was-deliberately-started/
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Totally to be expected from the religion of peace.
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It matters because as President of the United States, he represents this country and when he makes comments like that without thinking, he puts all of us in a very bad light. He reinforces the "ugly American" moniker. Now you may not care what the French think of us, but they are our allies, and it seems Trump is hell bent on ticking off all of our friends. Not very good foreign policy because someday we may need their support -- in war or whatever -- and alienating them now will come back to bite us in the posterior.
Can we maybe stick to the topic at hand and not turn this into yet another "slam Trump" thread?
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Just as easily, the French and others might thank Trump for showing concern. Really? Trump is showing himself to be an ugly American because he mentioned a way to fight fire?? If we had a problem and Macron said the same in a tweet, so what? It's just something being used to skewer the president. A lot of people chimed in about what could be done.
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdVNcAUMzp4#)
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Not in Poland.
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Last summer I think it was, Brazil's National Museum, a very historic building, burned largely to a loss. There's so much wood, old wood at that. These fires are not totally uncommon.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/02/americas/brazil-national-museum-fire-intl/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/02/americas/brazil-national-museum-fire-intl/index.html)
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Update: No sign of arson, likely worker accident.
http://news.trust.org/item/20190416123058-ee2q1 (http://news.trust.org/item/20190416123058-ee2q1)
The first alarm was triggered 20ish minutes before the fire was detected.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/paris-notre-dame-fire-extinguished-revealing-massive-damage-to-the-800-year-old-landmark-situation-still-precarious (https://www.thedailybeast.com/paris-notre-dame-fire-extinguished-revealing-massive-damage-to-the-800-year-old-landmark-situation-still-precarious)
While I don't have any other information and this is all speculation, I wonder if it was something electrical that created smoke, when they checked for fire, they saw none but it was spreading behind a wall or something. Someone may have dropped the ball not looking hard enough for what triggered the first alarm.
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Can we maybe stick to the topic at hand and not turn this into yet another "slam Trump" thread?
Indeed. Its grown beyond boring.
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I just read that there was no welding equipment on site, so if it was accidental, it was something else.
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It may not be rebuilt as Catholic Church. "Macron pledged to rebuild #NotreDame immediately 'in a way consistent with our modern diverse nation'."
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I've been in love with Salma Hayek since she caused that traffic accident in 'Desperado'.
@DCPatriot
Did you see her in From Dusk Till Dawn wearing the snake?
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Can we maybe stick to the topic at hand and not turn this into yet another "slam Trump" thread?
888high58888
So tiresome. So predictable, isn't it?
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It may not be rebuilt as Catholic Church. "Macron pledged to rebuild #NotreDame immediately 'in a way consistent with our modern diverse nation'."
The cathedral is state owned? The Church needs to tell him to take a hike.
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It may not be rebuilt as Catholic Church. "Macron pledged to rebuild #NotreDame immediately 'in a way consistent with our modern diverse nation'."
Does the little weenie get to decide how the church is rebuilt? Does the Catholic Church have any say? Serious question.
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The cathedral is state owned?
Yes.
The Church needs to tell him to take a hike.
??? They don't own the building.
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The Bridgehead (https://thebridgehead.ca/2019/04/16/notre-dames-burning-spires-force-us-all-to-face-the-truth-about-the-west/)
In perhaps the most ironic of responses to the tragedy of 800 years of history going up in smoke, progressive commentator Ian Millhiser tweeted that, “The fact that a human achievement that took a century to build can be burnt away in a few hours is such a horrible metaphor for democracy in 2019.â€
@mountaineer
Uhhh,I don't know who Ian Millhiser is or where he lives,but people who live in the area where I live have known about fire for a long,LONG time now.
And it takes a rootless progressive to look at a burning church and conclude that the politics of the current year are being symbolized there rather than the relentless smashing of our collective Judeo-Christian heritage by progressives like himself over the past century. It is the progressives that have played the role of iconoclast and demanded that we do away with the beliefs that gave rise to the awesome spires of Europe’s cathedrals, and it is they that have cheered the destruction and warmed themselves by the flames. What they have not realized is that once you start a fire, you cannot always control where it spreads and you may not have the power to put it out once it begins to consume things that you wanted to keep. ...
It took "rootless progressives" to start "The Reformation" that ended the grip of terror the Catholic Church held over all of Europe and the New World,too.
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Yes.
??? They don't own the building.
I didn't know the building is State owned so I'm sure the Church's leverage is limited.
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Images from the BBC, before and after the fire....
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/894B/production/_106474153_hi053458179.jpg)
Far more intact than it looked like there would be during the fire.
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European Churches: Vandalized, Defecated On, and Torched "Every Day"
by Raymond Ibrahim
April 14, 2019 at 5:00 am
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14044/europe-churches-vandalized (https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14044/europe-churches-vandalized)
In virtually every instance of church attacks, authorities and media obfuscate the identity of the vandals. In those rare instances when the Muslim (or "migrant") identity of the destroyers is leaked, the desecraters are then presented as suffering from mental health issues.
Well,they are mentally ill. The believe in heaven and hell,and "The Big Booger in the Sky" that sees all,knows all,and cheers the death and destruction of non-believers.
There is an eloquent silence in both France and Germany about the scandal of the desecrations and the origin of the perpetrators...
Of course. No government employee or official that wants to keep their job or be able to retire with their pension dare to tell the truth. The Globalists are in charge of the European Nations,and damn near control OUR nation,and they determine what is truth and what is fiction depending on political dictates. There is no such thing as absolute truth these days. Truth is conditional depending on the politics involved.
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Just read this from CBS News via MSN:
A brave chaplain and a human chain saved holy relics from Notre Dame
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-brave-chaplain-and-a-human-chain-saved-holy-relics-from-notre-dame/ar-BBVZLyJ?ocid=spartandhp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-brave-chaplain-and-a-human-chain-saved-holy-relics-from-notre-dame/ar-BBVZLyJ?ocid=spartandhp)
By the way, Father Fournier had previously served in Afghanistan.
These guys are heroes.
Good for them! Those guys are international heroes of the west for saving those historic items so future generations can see them.
I hope this does't cost them their careers,or maybe even their lives.
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It may not be rebuilt as Catholic Church. "Macron pledged to rebuild #NotreDame immediately 'in a way consistent with our modern diverse nation'."
@rustynail
How the hell would that even be possible? It has ALWAYS been a Catholic Church. How could it be anything else after all these years?
Somebody please correct me if I am wrong,but doesn't the Catholic Church actually OWN the building and the grounds it is sitting on?
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Images from the BBC, before and after the fire....
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/894B/production/_106474153_hi053458179.jpg)
Far more intact than it looked like there would be during the fire.
@musiclady
Yes,but at this point no one knows how many of the stones that support it were cracked by the heat and the water. It's going to take a while to determine it's present condition.
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@mountaineer
Uhhh,I don't know who Ian Millhiser is or where he lives,but people who live in the area where I live have known about fire for a long,LONG time now.
It took "rootless progressives" to start "The Reformation" that ended the grip of terror the Catholic Church held over all of Europe and the New World,too.
----------------------------------------------------------
* The catalyst for the Reformation was Martin Luther, an Augustinian Theologian and Monk. Progressivism didn't exist in his era.
* That so called "grip of terror" of the Catholic Church, was the nurturing of Greek and Roman
attitudes, behaviors, impulses and sentiments during the High Middle Ages till the Renaissance;
which were the bedrock of Western Civilization.
* Luther's 95 Theses were issued in 1517 when the New World did not exist, as the
Age of Exploration was only beginning.
Try the library. It's that stone building w/the history books inside!!!
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I thought the same thing.
(http://www.estatevaults.com/bol/_cross_ground_zero.jpg)
I have this framed and hanging on a wall. I bought a copy when we visited the gaping hole where the WTC stood on 3/11/02.
@musiclady
I'll never get over that. It's nothing short of miraculous.
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I'm seeing two things that caused the fire:
1. It was arson
2. It was an accident.
--------------------------------
The beams that supported the Cathedral ceiling and upper walls were
from Oak cut in the Forests of Champagne, NW of Paris in 1100 AD!!!!
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----------------------------------------------------------* The catalyst for the Reformation was Martin Luther, an Augustinian Theologian and Monk. Progressivism didn't exist in his era.
@Abasalom
HorseHillary! Martin Luther WAS the "progressive" of his era. Being a progressive is a good thing or a bad thing,depending on the POV of the observer. Regardless,Martin Luther was a hero of the ages.
* That so called "grip of terror" of the Catholic Church, was the nurturing of Greek and Roman
attitudes, behavior, impulses and sentiments during the High Middle Ages till the Renaissance;
which were the bedrock of Western Civilization.
* Luther's 95 Theses were issued in 1517 when the New World did not exist, as the
Age of Exploration was only beginning.
Blah,blah,dogmatic blah.
Try the library. It's that stone building w/the history books inside!!!
No history book written by a priest is anything but Catholic propaganda.
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Does the little weenie get to decide how the church is rebuilt? Does the Catholic Church have any say? Serious question.
----------------------------------------
The land may belong to the City but the Cathedral is controlled
by the Archdiocese of Paris headed by Michel Cardinal Aupetit,
who is the decider.
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----------------------------------------
The land may belong to the City but the Cathedral is controlled
by the Archdiocese of Paris headed by Michel Cardinal Aupetit,
who is the decider.
As long as they don't rebuild the church featuring Darth Vader gargoyles over the central portal, as does our National Cathedral.
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As long as they don't rebuild the church featuring Darth Vader gargoyles over the central portal, as does our National Cathedral.
Oh. You weren't kidding.
(https://img.theculturetrip.com/1440x/smart/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/darth-vadar-grotesque-courtesy-washington-national-cathedral.jpg)
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Predictably when disaster strikes, the hustlers rush
the stage where paranoia always trumps reflection.
Hmm, so the Muslims did it, did they. We'll see!
Actually I think those Space Aliens from Planet Uterus
are culprits; more so than 900 year old bone dry Oak!!!
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Oh. You weren't kidding.
(https://img.theculturetrip.com/1440x/smart/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/darth-vadar-grotesque-courtesy-washington-national-cathedral.jpg)
I attended easter services there a few years back & couldn't believe it when I saw it.
Fun, but a little too trivial and beneath the dignity of the place IMO.
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----------------------------------------
The land may belong to the City but the Cathedral is controlled
by the Archdiocese of Paris headed by Michel Cardinal Aupetit,
who is the decider.
The land and buildings belong to the state. They gave the Catholic Church exclusive rights to operate it.
Like all cathedrals in France, Notre-Dame is the property of the state, although its operation as a religious institution is left entirely to the Roman Catholic Church.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Paris/Climate#ref364836 (https://www.britannica.com/place/Paris/Climate#ref364836)
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Oh. You weren't kidding.
(https://img.theculturetrip.com/1440x/smart/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/darth-vadar-grotesque-courtesy-washington-national-cathedral.jpg)
I find your flock of pigeons.... disturbing.
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I find your flock of pigeons.... disturbing.
Are you sure those are pigeons?
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The land and buildings belong to the state. They gave the Catholic Church exclusive rights to operate it.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Paris/Climate#ref364836 (https://www.britannica.com/place/Paris/Climate#ref364836)
-----------------------------
The poster's query was, "Does the Catholic Church
have any say(control) not who owns it!!!
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Uhhh,I don't know who Ian Millhiser is or where he lives,but people who live in the area where I live have known about fire for a long,LONG time now.
@sneakypete
He's a leftist. That's why something that fundamental is beyond his comprehension.
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-----------------------------
The poster's query was, "Does the Catholic Church
have any say(control) not who owns it!!!
The Church does not control the building. The state was responsible for the past repairs, with lots of donations including from members of the Church.
The Church controls the operations of the building as a religious facility.
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Update: No sign of arson, likely worker accident.
http://news.trust.org/item/20190416123058-ee2q1 (http://news.trust.org/item/20190416123058-ee2q1)
The first alarm was triggered 20ish minutes before the fire was detected.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/paris-notre-dame-fire-extinguished-revealing-massive-damage-to-the-800-year-old-landmark-situation-still-precarious (https://www.thedailybeast.com/paris-notre-dame-fire-extinguished-revealing-massive-damage-to-the-800-year-old-landmark-situation-still-precarious)
While I don't have any other information and this is all speculation, I wonder if it was something electrical that created smoke, when they checked for fire, they saw none but it was spreading behind a wall or something. Someone may have dropped the ball not looking hard enough for what triggered the first alarm.
As for what I think (and that's not worth much) the Religion of Peace loves to brag. There has been no "rub it in your face" claim.
I think some poor worker made a mistake. There is no way someone would come out and admit to burning Notre Dame.
I just hate that it happened.
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Perhaps, candles that would be expected to melt did not. A secular network reports that. We will see.
We'll see how this story goes.
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As for what I think (and that's not worth much) the Religion of Peace loves to brag. There has been no "rub it in your face" claim.
I think some poor worker made a mistake. There is no way someone would come out and admit to burning Notre Dame.
I just hate that it happened.
@berdie
IF no one has claimed responsibility/bragged about setting the fire by tomorrow,I would tend to agree with you. The only reason I hesitate even though your premise is true is that the French control their media to the point where even if someone has claimed responsibility for setting the fire,it wouldn't be reported.
Even the leftist French can't keep it quiet beyond a day or two,though. Within a day or two the word would get out. This is just too big to keep hidden.
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@berdie
IF no one has claimed responsibility/bragged about setting the fire by tomorrow,I would tend to agree with you. The only reason I hesitate even though your premise is true is that the French control their media to the point where even if someone has claimed responsibility for setting the fire,it wouldn't be reported.
Even the leftist French can't keep it quiet beyond a day or two,though. Within a day or two the word would get out. This is just too big to keep hidden.
If true, :laugh: , the piece where they claimed an alarm was sent out 23 minutes BEFORE any fire was detected...it suggests arson.
"But, But, But....., it was just an accident!!"
STFU! It's Holy Week! Easter! The Resurrection!
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mountaineer, that was an excellent piece in reply 108.
I'll repeat the url in case anyone missed it:
https://thebridgehead.ca/2019/04/16/notre-dames-burning-spires-force-us-all-to-face-the-truth-about-the-west/
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@musiclady
Yes,but at this point no one knows how many of the stones that support it were cracked by the heat and the water. It's going to take a while to determine it's present condition.
I would guess it will take a very long time to determine that.
But I did expect it to look worse than it does, and that gives me some hope that they may be able to rebuild it.
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I would guess it will take a very long time to determine that.
But I did expect it to look worse than it does, and that gives me some hope that they may be able to rebuild it.
It will take over one hundred years to put it back the way it was. Let's get started.
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It will take over one hundred years to put it back the way it was. Let's get started.
Just to be clear........... it will NEVER be the way it was.
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Mark Steyn:
... There is an architectural debate to be had, I suppose, about whether a reconstructed twelfth-century cathedral requires nineteeth-century appurtenances such as its spire. But the minute that starts you risk some insecure dweeb like Macron, on whose watch the thing went up in smoke, getting fanciful ideas about bequeathing to posterity some I M Pei pyramid on the top of the roof. France's revolution, unlike America's, was aggressively secular, and it ultimately found expression in the 1905 law on the separation of churches and the state. Since then the French state has owned the cathedral, and thus it will be Macron who ultimately decides what arises in its place.
Beyond that are the larger questions: When the iconic house of worship at the heart of French Christianity decides to mark Holy Week by going up in flames, it's too obviously symbolic of something ...but of what exactly? Two thousand churches have been vandalized in the last two years: Valérie Boyer, who represents Bouches-du-Rhône in the National Assembly, said earlier this month that "every day at least two churches are profaned" - by which she means arson, smashed statutes of Jesus and Mary, and protestors who leave human fecal matter in the shape of a cross. This is a fact of life in modern France.
As it is, there is no shortage of excitable young Mohammedans gleefully celebrating on social media. In 2017 some inept hammer-wielding nutter yelling "Allahu Akbar!" had a crack at Notre Dame, and a couple of years before that the historian Dominique Venner blew his brains out on the altar to protest same-sex marriage. I love France but, in recent years, it's hard not to pick up on the sense that it's coming apart - and that, when the center cannot hold, the things at that center, the obsolete embodiments of a once cohesive society, are a natural target. ...
More (https://www.steynonline.com/9307/fire-and-faith)
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Mark Steyn:More (https://www.steynonline.com/9307/fire-and-faith)
I love France but, in recent years, it's hard not to pick up on the sense that it's coming apart - and that, when the center cannot hold, the things at that center, the obsolete embodiments of a once cohesive society, are a natural target. ..
@mountaineer
There is nothing unique about France. The whole damn world is coming apart,thanks to the globalist fascist bankers and their agents.
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Hope.
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2019/04/1862/1048/Notre-Dame-interior-1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Smoke is seen around the alter inside Notre Dame cathedral in Paris, Monday, April 15, 2019. The golden altar cross could be seen glowing as firefighters made their way in. (Philippe Wojazer/Pool via AP)
Just a quiet remindr that no matter how bleak things seem, He is still in charge.
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Just to be clear........... it will NEVER be the way it was.
Notre-Dame fire: Macron says new cathedral will be 'more beautiful'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47957400 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47957400)
It'll be BETTER than before.
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France announces an architects’ competition to rebuild the spire of Notre Dame Cathedral
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/17/france-announces-an-architects-competition-to-rebuild-the-spire-of-notre-dame-cathedral.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/17/france-announces-an-architects-competition-to-rebuild-the-spire-of-notre-dame-cathedral.html)
The French prime minister has announced an international architects’ competition to rebuild the spire of Notre Dame Cathedral.
Edouard Philippe is speaking following a special Cabinet meeting Wednesday focusing held by French President Emmanuel Macron on the reconstruction of Notre Dame Cathedral.
Philippe said the competition aims at “giving Notre Dame a spire adapted to techniques and challenges of our times.â€
He said authorities have no estimation yet of the total cost of the renovation work. Macron said Tuesday he wants the cathedral to be rebuilt by five years.
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Notre-Dame: The story of the fire in graphics and images
...
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1D7C/production/_106484570_notre_dame_3d_exterior_inf_v5_976-nc.png)
Read more at: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47947425 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47947425)
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...r a reconstructed twelfth-century cathedral requires nineteeth-century appurtenances such as its spire....
While true the spire was rebuilt in the 19th century, the original spire was built in the 13th.
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Notre-Dame: Cathedral 'will be closed for 5-6 years' following fire, bishop says
https://news.sky.com/story/notre-dame-french-pm-edouard-philippe-launches-competition-to-rebuild-spire-11696129
A lot sooner than a previous estimate I saw. All of these are early reports. So, we know how construction can be.
5-6 years, really wouldn't be any time at all, if this held up.
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People Report Seeing Religious Figures In Flames of Notre Dame
By Tom Ozimek
April 17, 2019 Updated: April 17, 2019
People claiming to have seen religious figures in the flames of Notre Dame are setting social media abuzz.
A Scottish mother who said she spotted the figure of Jesus Christ in the flames of the burning cathedral has sparked a flurry of online reactions and broad coverage in the British press.
Multiple outlets reported on Wednesday, April 17, that while watching coverage of the fire on Monday at her home in Alexandria, West Dunbartonshire, 38-year-old Lesley Rowan set social circles abuzz by claims of having seen the figure of Jesus in the flames.
Read more at: https://www.theepochtimes.com/people-report-seeing-religious-figures-in-flames-of-notre-dame_2883300.html (https://www.theepochtimes.com/people-report-seeing-religious-figures-in-flames-of-notre-dame_2883300.html)
Make of it, what one wants.
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Make of it, what one wants.
@TomSea
Weak-minded people believe and see what they have been programmed to believe and see.
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People see what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia. It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.
The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.
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People see what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia. It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.
The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.
Heck... I 'see' over 3 dozen assorted faces of people and animals in my bathroom carpet.
It's what you do with an enlarged prostate. :laugh:
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People see what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia. It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.
The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.
Agreed. Well said.
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Believing in miracles is not a sign of a weak mind.
It is a sign that one's mind goes beyond what one sees and touches, to one that is beyond human understanding.
It is, indeed, a sign of a deeper ability to think rather than the shallower perception we have in a material world.
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@TomSea
Weak-minded people believe and see what they have been programmed to believe and see.
Yeah, and no matter how you fuss about Muslims, atheists hand over the West to Muslims. They are their best friends. The fall of Christianity in Europe will be the rise of Islam. It sure won't be with atheists who don't replace the population with low growth rates. Potentially, it could happen here too.
@sneakypete
Maybe there are other strengths, other kinds and by the way. There are some things that just can not be explained. I am not going to get into that here. That's not the topic here.
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France asks: should Notre-Dame's spire be rebuilt as it was?
Richard Lough
PARIS (Reuters) - France will open the redesign of Notre-Dame de Paris cathedral’s historic spire to international architects after Monday night’s catastrophic blaze that gutted the centuries-old roof and sent the towering spire crashing through the vaulted ceiling.
The government’s announcement on Wednesday added to a question many are asking as France grieves for its damaged national symbol - whether the familiar outline at the heart of the capital should be restored exactly as it was or given a modern twist.
President Emmanuel Macron pledged in a prime-time address to the nation on Tuesday that Notre-Dame would be rebuilt within five years. Tycoons, international firms, local authorities and individuals have promised financial and expert help - with a total of nearly 900 million euros pledged by Wednesday.
Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-notredame/france-asks-should-notre-dames-spire-be-rebuilt-as-it-was-idUSKCN1RT197 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-notredame/france-asks-should-notre-dames-spire-be-rebuilt-as-it-was-idUSKCN1RT197)
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Millions in Notre-Dame Donations Pour In as France Focuses on Rebuildinghttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/world/europe/donate-notre-dame-fire.html
...Individuals, companies and institutions have so far donated or pledged 845 million euros, about $950 million, to rebuild the damaged cathedral, which has stood for more than eight centuries. On Tuesday, the government set up an online portal pointing to four official organizations and foundations that are collecting donations....
...Firefighters said at a news conference on Wednesday that they had always known the lattice was at risk. Philippe Demay, a deputy fire chief who was among the first to arrive at the cathedral on Monday, said that firefighters knew “perfectly well†that if the roof caught fire, “it was going to be very complicated to stop.â€
Mr. Demay said that he had arrived at the site in less than three minutes, as the area around the cathedral was bustling with thousands of tourists, and that he and his colleagues had to quickly trudge up the cathedral’s narrow spiraling staircases with heavy equipment in tow — an exercise they had done many times before.
Myriam Chudzinski, another firefighter, said that once they got to the top, it was clear that the flames had already spread.
“It was very, very hot; we had to back up,†she said.
On Wednesday, the police continued to block access to the cathedral and to the area around it on the Île de la Cité, one of the islands in the Seine that lie at the heart of Paris. Tourists and Parisians alike pressed against police barricades along the river, snapping pictures of the beloved symbol of the city, now roofless, and pointing to a cluster of firefighters atop one of the cathedral’s towers....
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Notre-Dame Attic Was Known as ‘the Forest.’ And It Burned Like One.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html)
...Some of those elements, like firewalls or a sprinkler system, were absent by choice — so as not to alter the landmark’s design or to introduce electrical wiring deemed a greater risk amid the timbers that supported Notre-Dame’s ornate lead roof.
“There had been a systematic refusal to install anything electrical†within “the forest†because of the risk, said Pierre Housieaux, president of the Paris Historical Association. “Everyone knew that the attic was the most fragile part.â€...
...Firefighters deployed a robot equipped with tank-type treads and a camera to pull hoses into the cathedral and aim water at the flames. Firefighters also used aerial drones to get a view, including thermal imaging, into the inferno....
...“The lack of fire security allowed the fire to spread quickly,†said Jean-Michel Leniaud, the former director of the École Nationale des Chartes, a French university institute that specializes in the sciences supporting historical work. “If there were sprinklers everywhere it might have been different, but there weren’t.â€...
...“We don’t act without planning,†said Gabriel Plus, a spokesman for the Paris fire brigade. “We know the cathedral. So we know what to do when something like that happens, we know, for instance, that we need to deploy boats on the Seine really quickly to pump large amounts of water.â€
About 500 firefighters responded, some of them unfurling hoses and training them on the blaze. About 100 focused on saving its religious and cultural treasures, Mr. Plus said.
“Once we realized that the roof would be partially lost, we aimed to stop the fire at the two towers, in order to limit the damage,†he said....
...“At the cathedral, we have fire monitors,†Msgr. Patrick Chauvet, rector of the cathedral, told the radio station France Inter on Tuesday. “Three times a day they go up, under the wooden roof, to make an assessment.â€
Notre-Dame had an on-site firefighter, posted daily at a command post on the floor of the structure, and a security agent, said André Finot, a spokesman for the cathedral. In case of an alarm, the firefighter would dispatch the security agent to the area where it rang....
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Notre-Dame Attic Was Known as ‘the Forest.’ And It Burned Like One.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html)
...Some of those elements, like firewalls or a sprinkler system, were absent by choice — so as not to alter the landmark’s design or to introduce electrical wiring deemed a greater risk amid the timbers that supported Notre-Dame’s ornate lead roof.
“There had been a systematic refusal to install anything electrical†within “the forest†because of the risk, said Pierre Housieaux, president of the Paris Historical Association. “Everyone knew that the attic was the most fragile part.â€...
...Firefighters deployed a robot equipped with tank-type treads and a camera to pull hoses into the cathedral and aim water at the flames. Firefighters also used aerial drones to get a view, including thermal imaging, into the inferno....
...“The lack of fire security allowed the fire to spread quickly,†said Jean-Michel Leniaud, the former director of the École Nationale des Chartes, a French university institute that specializes in the sciences supporting historical work. “If there were sprinklers everywhere it might have been different, but there weren’t.â€...
...“We don’t act without planning,†said Gabriel Plus, a spokesman for the Paris fire brigade. “We know the cathedral. So we know what to do when something like that happens, we know, for instance, that we need to deploy boats on the Seine really quickly to pump large amounts of water.â€
About 500 firefighters responded, some of them unfurling hoses and training them on the blaze. About 100 focused on saving its religious and cultural treasures, Mr. Plus said.
“Once we realized that the roof would be partially lost, we aimed to stop the fire at the two towers, in order to limit the damage,†he said....
...“At the cathedral, we have fire monitors,†Msgr. Patrick Chauvet, rector of the cathedral, told the radio station France Inter on Tuesday. “Three times a day they go up, under the wooden roof, to make an assessment.â€
Notre-Dame had an on-site firefighter, posted daily at a command post on the floor of the structure, and a security agent, said André Finot, a spokesman for the cathedral. In case of an alarm, the firefighter would dispatch the security agent to the area where it rang....
Sounds like the fire fighters had a pretty sophisticated operation going. That's probably why the damage was limited as much as it was.
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FWIW........
UPDATE on Notre Dame Fire: Here’s what we know about what started the fire
By Pamela Geller - on April 17, 2019
Here is the latest update from Maxime Lépante, our French correspondent in France (emphasis is mine):
This is an update about what we know today about the fire that destroyed the roof and parts of the vaults of Notre-Dame:
1) Restoration work hadn’t started on the roof. The scaffolding were still being put in place. The architect in chief of the “Monuments Historiques†(“Historical Monumentsâ€, the administration that maintains and repairs monuments in France), Philippe Villeneuve, who was responsible for the refurbishing of the spire of Notre-Dame, has stated that : “Work had not started yet, scaffoldings were still being builtâ€.
2) Everything was done to avoid any source of heat near the wood of the roof. No electrical plug, no welding were allowed. So, Philippe Villeneuve says : “The hot spot hypothesis is therefore not the right oneâ€.
3) The head of the company that was building the scaffoldings (Europe Echafaudage) (Europe Scaffolding), Julien Le Bras, was interviewed by a French TV (BFM) : “All I can say for the time being is that at the moment of the fire, absolutely none of the employees of my company was present on siteâ€.
4) He added : “All safety procedures on the Notre-Dame de Paris site have been respectedâ€.
5) One of my friend sent me an email concerning the security on the roof of Notre-Dame. She has a diploma in Art history and studied in the “Ecole du Louvre†(“Louvre Schoolâ€, were students learn art history and restoration processes) : “I visited the framing of Notre Dame with architects of the “Bâtiments de France†(“Buildings of Franceâ€, the highest rank for an architect in France), some years ago. This 13th century timber frame was extremely protected. intervention is always accompanied by historians, architects, experts; no work is envisaged without extreme caution; no source of heat, no torch, no electrical apparatus is allowed; a high-performance alarm system is in place; and very strict supervision of all people allowed there. I think we will eventually learn that this was arson.".
6) So as I said yesterday, with all these security measures, to have a fire on the roof of Notre-Dame, someone had to bring something there, and lit it up.
https://gellerreport.com/2019/04/notre-dame-fire-whatwe-know.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2-QWZ94GKNCzfQMadMUcFPhU59Rglxjo0yQKYY-A9lHc60s1_u9nDGKQ0 (https://gellerreport.com/2019/04/notre-dame-fire-whatwe-know.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2-QWZ94GKNCzfQMadMUcFPhU59Rglxjo0yQKYY-A9lHc60s1_u9nDGKQ0)
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I tend to agree with Pamela Geller.
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I tend to agree with Pamela Geller.
Hard to disagree with facts, eh?
I guess maybe Shep is wrong. happy77
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Hard to disagree with facts, eh?
I guess maybe Shep is wrong. happy77
Weird, huh?
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Weird, huh?
I'm shocked, I tell ya. Shep is my go-to guy for real news. :cool:
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First order of business will be to build some kind of temporary "shelter" that covers the open top of the vault, crossing, and nave to protect it against the weather.
Looks like the old wood beams that held the roof up were completely consumed by the fire -- there probably won't even be too much to clean up and clear away, other than ashes.
Once the walls and buttresses are inspected and repaired (assuming they came through ok), the task will be to design a new roof and finally to rebuild the spire. Also to repair the portion of the ceiling that gave way (although much of it seems to have remarkably "held together").
I'm wondering if modern construction materials could be used to construct a roof (and underlying support system) that is lighter than the original beams (each of which was cut from an entire tree, if I recall reading correctly). That would reduce forces on the walls and buttresses underneath.
A redesigned roof might not look exactly the same as the original, but properly constructed it could protect the cathedral for [hopefully] the next 500 years.
Insofar as cleaning up the existing debris goes, they should gather up and protect as much as possible (uncharred wood, perhaps pieces of stone, etc.). The items that wouldn't be of much use in rebuilding could be SOLD to help finance the restoration. Perhaps small pieces, mounted on a plaque, that people could buy. Doing so has the potential to raise a good amount of cash. Would you be interested in owning a chunk of the original Notre Dame cathedral for, say, $25?
(It's possible to buy stone fragments of the original Nauvoo temple built by the Mormons in 1846 before they left Illinois for the trek west. An interesting piece of history...)
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I bought a piece of the Berlin Wall years ago when stores were selling it,
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People see what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia. It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.
The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.
@Freya
The cross didn't burn because it's not made out of wood.
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Yeah, and no matter how you fuss about Muslims, atheists hand over the West to Muslims. They are their best friends. The fall of Christianity in Europe will be the rise of Islam. It sure won't be with atheists who don't replace the population with low growth rates. Potentially, it could happen here too.
@sneakypete
@TomSea
WHO is applying for and getting government contracts to teach English as a second language,how to apply for welfare,food stamps,gubbermint housing,etc,etc,etc?
Would it be religious organizations,or atheists?
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Notre Dame fire: drone footage shows damage to cathedral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMaY4KqG_d8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMaY4KqG_d8)
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMaY4KqG_d8#)
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I tend to agree with Pamela Geller.
If Pam says it was arson then so do I!
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The Chaplain, the Cathedral Fire and the Race to Rescue Notre-Dame’s Relics
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/world/europe/statues-notre-dame-relics.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/world/europe/statues-notre-dame-relics.html)
...It was a task that emergency workers had prepared for. Firefighters held two training exercises at the cathedral last year that were focused on saving its treasures.
On Monday evening, when the possibility of a disaster became a terrifying reality, more than a hundred of the 500 firefighters who responded were dedicated to that mission.
Among the objects they saved were the crown of thorns said to have been worn by Jesus, the tunic of Saint Louis and a piece of wood and a nail believed to have been part of the cross used in the crucifixion.
There were obstacles beyond the fire itself. “We needed keys and codes to save some of the world treasures, which I clearly didn’t have,†Father Fournier said in an interview on Wednesday.
The crown of thorns, for example, which the cathedral calls its “most precious and most venerated relic,†was locked in a chest.
While Father Fournier ran to look for the keys, some of his fellow firefighters opted for a more direct approach: They broke open the chest, and carried the crown to the cathedral entrance, where police officers watched over the rescued artifacts.
Then workers from the city and the church, along with emergency workers, ferried the artworks away by making what the mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, called “a formidable human chain.â€
Inside Notre-Dame, Father Fournier and the other firefighters worked to remove a painting depicting the Virgin and Child. He covered two of the cathedral’s models, and later helped rescue a handful of other artworks and icons.
As the chaplain began removing a statue of Jesus, he said, his colleagues were fighting the fire from the cathedral’s towers. The flames had started to threaten the wooden structure around the belfry — putting the whole cathedral at even greater risk.,,,
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Latest news Short Circuit likely caused Notre-Dame Fire:Police official
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Short-Circuit-Notre-Dame-Fire-508756191.html (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Short-Circuit-Notre-Dame-Fire-508756191.html)
Video too
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Latest news Short Circuit likely caused Notre-Dame Fire:Police official
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Short-Circuit-Notre-Dame-Fire-508756191.html (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Short-Circuit-Notre-Dame-Fire-508756191.html)
Video too
That does not make any sense. Because of the fire hazard no electrical circuits were allowed in the "forest", Wood roof/attic area.
Notre-Dame Attic Was Known as ‘the Forest.’ And It Burned Like One.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html)
...Some of those elements, like firewalls or a sprinkler system, were absent by choice — so as not to alter the landmark’s design or to introduce electrical wiring deemed a greater risk amid the timbers that supported Notre-Dame’s ornate lead roof.
“There had been a systematic refusal to install anything electrical†within “the forest†because of the risk, said Pierre Housieaux, president of the Paris Historical Association. “Everyone knew that the attic was the most fragile part.â€...
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Add on:
Thank God for western values | The Spectator
Tom Holland
Declarations of hope that Notre Dame can be resurrected have been much in evidence this Holy Week. Such is the lesson of Easter: that life can come from death. Unlike the Eiffel Tower, that other great emblem of Paris, Notre Dame provides the French with evidence that their modern and secular republic has its foundations deeply rooted in the Middle Ages. Notre Dame has always been more than just an assemblage of stone and stained glass. It is a monument as well to a specifically Christian past.
Last summer, one of the world’s best-known scientists, a man as celebrated for his polemics against religion as for his writings on evolutionary biology, sat in another cathedral, Winchester, listening to the bells peal. ‘So much nicer than the aggressive-sounding “Allahu Akhbarâ€,’ Richard Dawkins tweeted. ‘Or is that just my cultural upbringing?’ A preference for church bells over the sound of Muslims praising God does not just emerge by magic. Dawkins — agnostic, secularist and humanist that he is — absolutely has the instincts of someone brought up in a Christian civilisation.
Perhaps, then, the debt of the contemporary West to Christianity is more deeply rooted than many — believers and non-believers alike — might presume.
Read more at: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/04/thank-god-for-western-values/ (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/04/thank-god-for-western-values/)
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New York Times hits new low with mortifying Notre Dame correction
By Mark Hemingway
April 19, 2019 | 10:33amJust in time for Easter, The New York Times has been forced to run yet another correction that speaks to the paper’s profound ignorance regarding the basic beliefs of Christianity.
In a Thursday report on the fire at Notre Dame, The Times highlighted the actions of Father Jean-Marc Fournier, the Paris Fire Department chaplain who exposed himself to certain danger in order to recover the cathedral’s treasured relics.
“I had two priorities: to save the crown of thorns and a statue of Jesus,†the Grey Lady quoted him. The story was full of gripping details about the scramble to preserve this statue. “As the chaplain began removing a statue of Jesus, he said, his colleagues were fighting the fire from the cathedral’s towers,†the paper reported. “With the statue in hand, Father Fournier, alone in the nave, gave a benediction to the cathedral, he said.â€
There’s one small problem here. There’s no statue of Jesus inside Notre Dame. What Father Fournier was referring to was the Blessed Sacrament, communion bread that, according to Catholic doctrine, contains the real presence of Jesus Christ. ...
How could the newspaper possibly confuse these two things? The most logical explanation is that Father Fournier referred to the “body of Christ,†and the reporter took his words literally and not seriously. It doesn’t appear to be a translation error; the reporter who wrote the story, Elian Peltier, appears to be fluent in French and tweets in the language regularly.
Of course, embarrassing as Peltier’s gaffe might be, it’s hard to top this correction the venerable paper ran in 2013: “An earlier version of this article mischaracterized the Christian holiday of Easter. It is the celebration of Jesus’ resurrection from the dead, not his resurrection into heaven.â€
A reporter for the paper had apparently confused the resurrection with the ascension into heaven. ...
More (https://nypost.com/2019/04/19/new-york-times-hits-new-low-with-mortifying-notre-dame-correction/)
:laugh:
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New York Times hits new low with mortifying Notre Dame correction
By Mark Hemingway
April 19, 2019 | 10:33amMore (https://nypost.com/2019/04/19/new-york-times-hits-new-low-with-mortifying-notre-dame-correction/)
:laugh:
Sometimes ignorance is funny.
But this bozo is being paid money by the supposedly most venerable newspaper, and he doesn't even do basic research to find out what he's supposed to be writing about.
It's that leftist ignorance combined with arrogance that makes them so profoundly dense. They're incurious and will never find out anything they don't know because they think they know everything. *****rollingeyes*****
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The Old Gray Lady has been going downhill since around the millennium.
Dang shame because when I was a kid, this was the best paper in the country, and it’s reporters held the standard for any journalism major to imitate
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The Old Gray Lady has been going downhill since around the millennium.
Dang shame because when I was a kid, this was the best paper in the country, and it’s reporters held the standard for any journalism major to imitate
@Freya
I have never met anyone that thought that that didn't grow up in the NYC/NJ/surrounding area.
I have always thought they were a steaming pile of crap.
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@Freya
I have never met anyone that thought that that didn't grow up in the NYC/NJ/surrounding area.
I have always thought they were a steaming pile of crap.
I hope I’m not a pile of 💩 @sneakypete .
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I hope I’m not a pile of 💩 @sneakypete .
@Freya
Uhhhh,I was referring to the New York Times.
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LA Times:
To rebuild Notre Dame after its fire, French can look east to Dresden’s Frauenkirche
Erik Kirschbaum
(https://www.latimes.com/resizer/1WlXeYiHSnPeD0APXCcKmu0acOM=/800x0/www.trbimg.com/img-5cbe0672/turbine/la-1555957358-drlqn9h2et-snap-image)
The rebuilt Frauenkirche in Dresden, Germany. (Erik Kirschbaum / For The Times)
As the embers cool and donations mount to rebuild the fire-racked Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, lessons gleaned from the improbable reconstruction of Dresden’s Frauenkirche decades after the city was firebombed near the end of World War II could both inform and inspire the effort.
The remains of the iconic baroque 18th-century Lutheran church lay desolate and covered by weeds for more than 40 years of Communist rule, a sort of ghoulish antiwar monument that even after the fall of the Berlin Wall, some 90% of locals thought should remain a memory.
But buoyed by a worldwide spirit of revival, including an influx of $150 million in donations, the rebuilt church stands again, in an entire neighborhood of reconstructed buildings visited by many of the 2.7 million tourists who flock to the city of 550,000, 120 miles south of Berlin, each year.
Read more at: https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-dresden-restoration-notre-dame-20190422-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-dresden-restoration-notre-dame-20190422-story.html)
LA Times, lots of good articles, liberal editorial board. Still, in general, they don't post absolute garbage as editorials at least, that I've seen and what I mean by that is calling someone a racist in the headline, What BS. I'm sure they do their part for the liberal cause.
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Police have confirmed that a fire in the French church of Notre-Dame de Grâce on Easter Sunday appears to have been intentionally set, making it the latest in a string of desecrations of Christian churches in the country.
The fire was started in a large, wooden confessional around 4:30pm and proceeded to consume a dais in the presbytery of the eighteenth-century church located in the southern French town of Eyguières, near Provence.
https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2019/04/23/another-french-church-burns-on-easter-sunday-probable-arson/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29 (https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2019/04/23/another-french-church-burns-on-easter-sunday-probable-arson/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+breitbart+%28Breitbart+News%29)
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You have to wonder when and if the French Catholics are ever going to man up and start getting Medieval on the Muslims. If this doesn't do it,they need to just go ahead and neuter themselves and mail their balls to Mecca.
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Ou est Charles Martel?
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Setting topic non-sticky as these threads have not been posted to in over a week. Feel free to revive at anytime.
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Bump
Supposedly Notre Dame’s Fire was seen by Nostradamus.
Just putting it out there if you believe in this,
http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2019/05/notre-dame-fire/ (http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2019/05/notre-dame-fire/)
Ping @Quix
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Bump
Supposedly Notre Dame’s Fire was seen by Nostradamus.
Just putting it out there if you believe in this,
http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2019/05/notre-dame-fire/ (http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2019/05/notre-dame-fire/)
Ping @Quix
Interesting. Thanks.
Am not a fan of the cryptic one from centuries ago. But I recognize that even satan's "prophets" get some things at least partially right.
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Bump
Supposedly Notre Dame’s Fire was seen by Nostradamus.
Just putting it out there if you believe in this,
http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2019/05/notre-dame-fire/ (http://www.hogueprophecy.com/2019/05/notre-dame-fire/)
Ping @Quix
No offense, but that's about the dumbest thing I've read today, and I just read a Q thread on FR
Here is the quatrain in question. So vague, it can be read into anything or nothing the reader desires.
Head of Aries , Jupiter and Saturn
Eternal God what changes?!
After a long century his malicious time returns,
France and Italy, what turmoil.
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No offense, but that's about the dumbest thing I've read today, and I just read a Q thread on FR
Here is the quatrain in question. So vague, it can be read into anything or nothing the reader desires.
Head of Aries , Jupiter and Saturn
Eternal God what changes?!
After a long century his malicious time returns,
France and Italy, what turmoil.
I agree. But I thought someone here might be interested, you know?
@ABX
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I agree. But I thought someone here might be interested, you know?
@ABX
I found it interesting that one person who studied Nostradamus' writings was busy debunking another's claims.
I'd read the rising turmoil as the resurgencce of Communism (here!) after 100 long years since the Oktober Revolution, but the astrological references don't line up, either.
Interesting stuff, but I give it far, far, less weight than the OT (and New Testament) prophets of the Bible.
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Interesting stuff, but I give it far, far, less weight than the OT (and New Testament) prophets of the Bible.
@Smokin Joe
The wise ones were the OG phophets.
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@Smokin Joe
The wise ones were the OG phophets.
I thought the OGs were after profits?
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I thought the OGs were after profits?
@Smokin Joe
Sometimes in life the title defines the actions.
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I thought the OGs were after profits?
I thought OG was after Magilla Gorilla.
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngeJUdF5HnY#)
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I think @Freya 's post is of interest to many actually, maybe I should re-sticky the tread.
Prime Minister Trudeau visited the Cathedral site this past week and is offering Canadian wood and steel to rebuild.
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-o4RT9EoVE#)
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icabCCTdJBE#)
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVje_Bo4hk8#)
I'm not pleased with him; he does okay in tasks like this.
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Thank you @TomSea
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I thought OG was after Magilla Gorilla.
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngeJUdF5HnY#)
@EasyAce
One of my favorites from childhood! Haven’t thought about that show in years. Yay I liked Hanna -Barbara (stupid spell check) cartoons! Yay Jetsons!