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General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 04:44:10 pm

Title: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 04:44:10 pm

Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”

(http://finkelblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Tomi-Lahren-FNC-07-11-18.png)

Tomi Lahren began her appearance on Fox and Friends this morning by saying she wanted to “clarify” her statements in which she argued against overturning Roe v. Wade. Instead, Lahren doubled down, adding fuel to the fire by saying that conservatives who want to go after Roe “might as well spit on the Constitution.” Said Lahren:

Quote

    “My problem is with some of my fellow conservatives who have put it out there that we are, quote: “coming for Roe v. Wade. That is a mistake, because we are putting it out there and implying that we are sending a justice to the bench to carry out religious judicial activism which is a mistake and it’s unconstitutional. And if we as conservatives are going to imply that, if that’s going to be our messaging, we might as well spit on the Constitution.”


http://finkelblogger.com/2018/07/11/tomi-lahren-conservatives-going-after-roe-might-as-well-spit-on-the-constitution/ (http://finkelblogger.com/2018/07/11/tomi-lahren-conservatives-going-after-roe-might-as-well-spit-on-the-constitution/)
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 04:48:44 pm
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,323923.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,323923.0.html)

Quote
Conservative Tomi Lahren Defends Abortion: Republicans Should Quit Talking About Social Issues

Conservative political commentator Tomi Lahren ripped into pro-lifers again last week as the nation waits for a new U.S. Supreme Court nominee from President Donald Trump.

Pro-lifers have high hopes that Trump will nominate a strong conservative justice to the high court, one who could be the deciding vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.

But Lahren strays from most conservatives on the abortion issue. On Fox News, she claimed that “pressing for a Supreme Court decision to overturn Roe v. Wade would be a big mistake,” AOL reports.

Read more at: http://www.lifenews.com/2018/07/09/conservative-tomi-lahren-defends-abortion-republicans-should-quit-talking-about-social-issues/ (http://www.lifenews.com/2018/07/09/conservative-tomi-lahren-defends-abortion-republicans-should-quit-talking-about-social-issues/)
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Free Vulcan on July 11, 2018, 04:58:46 pm
Roe created a right that wasn't previously there, definitely not in the Constitution. SCOTUS legislated from the bench.

Science has also advanced greatly since the 70's, so Lahren needs to understand that whatever 'right' she thinks exists may be greatly limited because of it.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: txradioguy on July 11, 2018, 05:02:52 pm
Shut up Tomi.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 05:03:04 pm
Roe created a right that wasn't previously there, definitely not in the Constitution. SCOTUS legislated from the bench.

Science has also advanced greatly since the 70's, so Lahren needs to understand that whatever 'right' she thinks exists may be greatly limited because of it.

The larger point is that arguing the issue feeds right into the media-fed belief that the GOP wants to take away the woman's right to choose.

WTF is so hard for Republican strategists to understand about that.   Oh wait, it's not them.

Nope...it's a certain type of Conservative...the 'Taliban' of the Republican Party.

Don't like the analogy?  Leave women alone.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 05:09:59 pm
Roe created a right that wasn't previously there, definitely not in the Constitution. SCOTUS legislated from the bench.

Science has also advanced greatly since the 70's, so Lahren needs to understand that whatever 'right' she thinks exists may be greatly limited because of it.

The right was ALWAYS there.  It is a natural right of a human being to have self-determination over his or her destiny.   The Constitution was established to protect our natural rights from the tyranny of the State.   

Sixty years ago the government could forbid the use of contraceptives.  Forty years ago the government could force a pregnant woman to reproduce.   Yes,  science has advanced greatly since the 70s, but so has our respect for the rights and equality before the law of women.   

The patriarchy is dead.   Get used to it.   
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 11, 2018, 05:11:26 pm
The larger point is that arguing the issue feeds right into the media-fed belief that the GOP wants to take away the woman's right to choose.

WTF is so hard for Republican strategists to understand about that.   Oh wait, it's not them.

Nope...it's a certain type of Conservative...the 'Taliban' of the Republican Party.

Don't like the analogy?  Leave women alone.

That's patently stupid. There isn't an issue that doesn't feed the MSM narrative against the GOP. If people rolled over on abortion the MSM would be right on to the next issue. Hell, the MSM loved tariffs when Obama did them yet now they are ruining the country since Donny started in on it.

Feel free to jump on this stupid sluts bandwagon. I prefer not to seriously listen to people who are younger than the scotch I drink.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 05:12:15 pm

Nope...it's a certain type of Conservative...the 'Taliban' of the Republican Party.

Don't like the analogy?  Leave women alone.

 :amen:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:15:02 pm
She is repeating something similar to that which Joe Biden, John McCain have said. That's who she should be plugging for, Biden and McCain or she should call for a Constitutional Convention to change the Constitution.

Get a Clue!  No Evangelicals, No President Trump, face the reality. Is her 15 minutes of fame up? What an airhead.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 05:15:22 pm
That's patently stupid. There isn't an issue that doesn't feed the MSM narrative against the GOP. If people rolled over on abortion the MSM would be right on to the next issue. Hell, the MSM loved tariffs when Obama did them yet now they are ruining the country since Donny started in on it.

Feel free to jump on this stupid sluts bandwagon. I prefer not to seriously listen to people who are younger than the scotch I drink.

It's not because of Tomi Lahren, per se....this thread.

It's because it's an alternative POV.

Foreign concept to you? 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:16:46 pm
The larger point is that arguing the issue feeds right into the media-fed belief that the GOP wants to take away the woman's right to choose.

WTF is so hard for Republican strategists to understand about that.   Oh wait, it's not them.

Nope...it's a certain type of Conservative...the 'Taliban' of the Republican Party.

Don't like the analogy?  Leave women alone.

So tell us great sage, would Trump have been elected without the Evangelical vote?  Yes or No?? No song and dance.

The "Taliban", hmmn.

Maybe the enlightened pro-choicers, secular humanists are truly like Nazis as seeing someone less than human.  :amen:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:18:25 pm
Roger Stone, John McCain, these are who echo this point of view.

Keep your name-calling and just decide, you don't belong in the Trump camp.

John Adams said the Constitution is only for moral and religious people. So, the usual trashing of Christianity runs against, what at least some Founding Fathers opposed.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 11, 2018, 05:20:20 pm
It's not because of Tomi Lahren, per se....this thread.

It's because it's an alternative POV.

Foreign concept to you?

NAMBLA has an alternate point of view too. I don't subscribe to that stupid shit either.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:20:59 pm
Glad Glen Beck canned her, didn't she play the victim card and try to sue him?

You all who believe like she does, go run to the Democratic party, that's their view. That's McCain's view, that is not the view of the GOP or President Donald Johnathan Trump.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Free Vulcan on July 11, 2018, 05:22:24 pm
The right was ALWAYS there.  It is a natural right of a human being to have self-determination over his or her destiny.   The Constitution was established to protect our natural rights from the tyranny of the State.   

Sixty years ago the government could forbid the use of contraceptives.  Forty years ago the government could force a pregnant woman to reproduce.   Yes,  science has advanced greatly since the 70s, but so has our respect for the rights and equality before the law of women.   

The patriarchy is dead.   Get used to it.

That's your papal proclamation. Not much else backs you up, except the world view that exists only in your mind.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:24:15 pm
Why stop at pre-birth, how about laws that parents can do away with their offspring for the first 18 years of their life??
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Free Vulcan on July 11, 2018, 05:24:27 pm
The larger point is that arguing the issue feeds right into the media-fed belief that the GOP wants to take away the woman's right to choose.

WTF is so hard for Republican strategists to understand about that.   Oh wait, it's not them.

Nope...it's a certain type of Conservative...the 'Taliban' of the Republican Party.

Don't like the analogy?  Leave women alone.

I'm willing to let science dictate the facts. If it has a heartbeat, it's a human being subject to all the rights the rest of us have.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:25:13 pm
It's not because of Tomi Lahren, per se....this thread.

It's because it's an alternative POV.

Foreign concept to you?

Yes or no? Would Trump have been elected without the Evangelical vote?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:26:46 pm
The right was ALWAYS there.  It is a natural right of a human being to have self-determination over his or her destiny.   The Constitution was established to protect our natural rights from the tyranny of the State.   

Sixty years ago the government could forbid the use of contraceptives.  Forty years ago the government could force a pregnant woman to reproduce.   Yes,  science has advanced greatly since the 70s, but so has our respect for the rights and equality before the law of women.   

The patriarchy is dead.   Get used to it.

John Adams is a founding father and said our Constitution is for a Moral and Religious people. Get over it. You just push secular humanism, a belief system in itself. You have no backup for anything you say and Scalia and Dershowitz dispel your radical leftwing interpretation of the Constitution.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:27:08 pm
I'm willing to let science dictate the facts. If it has a heartbeat, it's a human being subject to all the rights the rest of us have.

 :amen:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 05:27:41 pm
So tell us great sage, would Trump have been elected without the Evangelical vote?  Yes or No?? No song and dance.

The "Taliban", hmmn.

Maybe the enlightened pro-choicers, secular humanists are truly like Nazis as seeing someone less than human.  :amen:

Where else was the Evangelical vote go?   Are you suggesting 100% of them are one issue voters?

It was Trump vs. Hillary.  Binary choice.

Just because we recognize the futility of successfully making the culture do a 180 on abortion rights...doesn't mean we don't agree there is the death of a human life involved here.

Park your virtue signaling at the door of the thread, please.

I would like to partake in a practical, pragmatic discussion of the issue.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 05:30:53 pm
Where else was the Evangelical vote go?   Are you suggesting 100% of them are one issue voters?

It was Trump vs. Hillary.  Binary choice.

Just because we recognize the futility of successfully making the culture do a 180 on abortion rights...doesn't mean we don't agree there is the death of a human life involved here.

Park your virtue signaling at the door of the thread, please.

I would like to partake in a practical, pragmatic discussion of the issue.

So why wasn't Romney elected? Evangelicals say because Evangelicals did not support Romney.

You don't want to confront that Trump would not have been elected without the Evangelical vote. If one doesn't know that, one doesn't know the news. You are the one who is impractical and non-pragmatic.

Franklin Graham

Robert Jeffers

John Hagee

James Dobson,

All prominent Evangelicals, you had this with no other president in modern history, total BS evasion of facts.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 05:33:27 pm
Why stop at pre-birth, how about laws that parents can do away with their offspring for the first 18 years of their life??

Why not?
Murder can be a "very" late term abortion.
The argument gets pretty silly.

Make the "morning after" pill available over-the-counter.

Pretty simple way to stop abortion.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 05:35:42 pm
John Adams is a founding father and said our Constitution is for a Moral and Religious people. Get over it.

Yes, a Moral and Religious people that denied women the right to vote and treated them largely as chattel of their spouses.   

Quote
You just push secular humanism, a belief system in itself.

Bullshit.

Quote
You have no backup for anything you say and Scalia and Dershowitz dispel your radical leftwing interpretation of the Constitution.

The Constitution as the protector of the natural rights of man against the State is hardly a radical interpretation.  But those protections now extend to women as well.   Sorry you can't accept that.   
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: INVAR on July 11, 2018, 05:36:18 pm
It's because it's an alternative POV.

Foreign concept to you?

It is to you when it comes to Trump.  You have ZERO tolerance by your own admission.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 05:37:28 pm
Roe created a right that wasn't previously there, definitely not in the Constitution. SCOTUS legislated from the bench.

Science has also advanced greatly since the 70's, so Lahren needs to understand that whatever 'right' she thinks exists may be greatly limited because of it.

Actually, no, they didn’t create a right out of thin air.  They recognized the right to controlling one’s own body as a fundamental right, and held that under the due process clauses that the government could not interfere with that right in the context of abortion until the fetus was viable. 

They utilized the same basic reasoning they used to impose (most of) the Bill of Rights on the states, even though nothing in the Constitution mandates or expressly permits that result. 

So, if you think that Roe v. Wade invented something that wasn’t permitted by the Constitution, then you’re committed to the position that imposing the Bill of Rights on the states was also illegitimate. 

Which of course means, for example, that you are committed to the position that Oregon was well within its rights to penalize bakers for discriminating against gays.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 05:38:00 pm
It is to you when it comes to Trump.  You have ZERO tolerance by your own admission.

My, you're such a delicate teacup.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 05:43:24 pm
I'm willing to let science dictate the facts. If it has a heartbeat, it's a human being subject to all the rights the rest of us have.

And at least until it’s viable, it cannot be used as an excuse by the state to commandeer another human being’s body for use as a compelled incubator; its rights are subservient to hers until that point. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: INVAR on July 11, 2018, 05:43:49 pm
My, you're such a delicate teacup.

When it comes to Hypocrisy being displayed, I'm like white on rice to point it out.

Hardly delicate.

More like in-your-face.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 05:45:51 pm
Why stop at pre-birth, how about laws that parents can do away with their offspring for the first 18 years of their life??

Because previability is the point at which the conflict between the mother’s rights and the fetuses rights cannot be resolved by separating them.  Once a child is born, anyone can raise it, so there is absolutely no irremedial conflict that would allow such a drastic result. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 05:46:26 pm
When it comes to Hypocrisy being displayed, I'm like white on rice to point it out.

Hardly delicate.

More like in-your-face.

:bigsilly:

No, no you’re not. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 05:46:58 pm
So why wasn't Romney elected? Evangelicals say because Evangelicals did not support Romney.

You don't want to confront that Trump would not have been elected without the Evangelical vote. If one doesn't know that, one doesn't know the news. You are the one who is impractical and non-pragmatic.

Franklin Graham

Robert Jeffers

John Hagee

James Dobson,

All prominent Evangelicals, you had this with no other president in modern history, total BS evasion of facts.

But not all of the aforementioned gentlemen would withhold their vote if Brett Kavanaugh cites Roe V Wade as "precedent"...one of the three things he said he would consider on his rulings.

Only by gentle persuasion can abortion become an aberration and not the norm.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 05:48:13 pm
That's your papal proclamation. Not much else backs you up, except the world view that exists only in your mind.

Ahhh.  So, until 1973, nobody had a right to control what was done with or to their own bodies, or such a trifling little right that it could be overrun for mere trifles. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 05:51:52 pm
...President Donald Johnathan Trump.


Johnathan?

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 11, 2018, 05:55:13 pm
Wait one Texas minute here. One of the Mods pulled this post of mine.......

(https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1471/42/1471420028634.jpg)
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 05:55:44 pm

For so long as women have the option of abortion, no man should be liable for child support.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 11, 2018, 06:00:16 pm
For so long as women have the option of abortion, no man should be liable for child support.

LOL. That's a solid point.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 06:01:55 pm
Tomi Lahren never struck me as conservative anyway.
A TV personality, making decent money, staying on her parents Obamacare plan, just because she could, is no conservative.
Not, the pull-yourself-up-by-your-own-bootstraps-rugged-individual type, anyway.
No, just another RINO.

Let's be honest, Abortion hasn't worried about women's health issues in a long time.
If so, they would be mandated to follow the same rules any doctors office would, yet they find themselves exempt from such rules.
A Texas law trying to do just that was shot down.

No, its about money, pure and simple.

Take my earlier example of making the morning after pill available over the counter.
Heck, why stop there?
Allow school nurses to carry it, make it available through mail (internet) order, subsidize it to the poor,etc.
Make it so there is no excuse whatsoever to have someone claim they did not have access to it.

Just watch how would scream the loudest and longest if that happened.

I have a pretty good idea who that would be.

As science has and will improve in the coming years, there should be a move, by all concerned, on both sides of the issue, to make this abortion business obsolete.

Let's see which interest would be for that and which ones would not.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 06:05:16 pm
For so long as women have the option of abortion, no man should be liable for child support.

So not only do you have zero regard for a woman as a human being, you feel the same way about your kids.

Good to know.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Free Vulcan on July 11, 2018, 06:05:43 pm
Actually, no, they didn’t create a right out of thin air.  They recognized the right to controlling one’s own body as a fundamental right, and held that under the due process clauses that the government could not interfere with that right in the context of abortion until the fetus was viable. 

They utilized the same basic reasoning they used to impose (most of) the Bill of Rights on the states, even though nothing in the Constitution mandates or expressly permits that result. 

So, if you think that Roe v. Wade invented something that wasn’t permitted by the Constitution, then you’re committed to the position that imposing the Bill of Rights on the states was also illegitimate. 

Which of course means, for example, that you are committed to the position that Oregon was well within its rights to penalize bakers for discriminating against gays.

There are a myriad of situations where you can't use your body to do with as you please. There area myriad of situations where controlling your body leads to consequences.

Pregnancy unless raped is not a forced situation. It's also only a 9 month situation. The entity created is genetically different than the mother and not part of her body in any scientific meaning of the phrase. That entity is also a life and a human being.

Which means you are selectively applying those rights to who you wish and who you do not, regardless of science. If you accept that then you believe the govt can selectively apply rights to any class of persons they wish.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 11, 2018, 06:07:09 pm
Tomi Lahren never struck me as conservative anyway.

Because she is not. Looking at her resume it is a string of jobs she got because she was young and hot. College gig to some start up online Right Wing job. Then she gets hired by Beck because she had the right look. Then to FOX because that is where anyone who looks good on camera goes these days. All this in the space of 3 years.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 06:07:24 pm
Jerusalem was recognized, Jeffers and John Hagee were over there as guests of Trump, Former-President Romney criticized this , he sure did not  get that vote. Jay Sekulow, point man for Trumps legal defense is Evangelical and a Messianic Jew.

Pro-Choicers like Tomi should go home to the Democrat party.

Trump doing as much for Jerusalem is seen, at least in part, a nod to Evangelicals.

Check what Trump said in the debates too.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 06:08:18 pm
Because she is not. Looking at her resume it is a string of jobs she got because she was young and hot. College gig to some start up online Right Wing job. Then she gets hired by Beck because she had the right look. Then to FOX because that is where anyone who looks good on camera goes these days. All this in the space of 3 years.

All true.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on July 11, 2018, 06:14:59 pm
Wait one Texas minute here. One of the Mods pulled this post of mine.......

(https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1471/42/1471420028634.jpg)

 :shrug:

Guess if you like skinny boys.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 06:19:05 pm
But not all of the aforementioned gentlemen would withhold their vote if Brett Kavanaugh cites Roe V Wade as "precedent"...one of the three things he said he would consider on his rulings.

Only by gentle persuasion can abortion become an aberration and not the norm.

Your opinion, no one needs the high abortion rates of Maryland in Arkansas. Why do you want to force it on other people?

One can see, high abortion states, NY, California, Planned Parenthood's research arm even stopped giving out that info because there are such big differences. States should legislate, not have it forced on them.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 06:20:34 pm
American Taliban, you know who has used that phrase people? Daily Kos, unbelievable really. Might as well call leftists, leftists.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wvR3B9Hl_Xg/UbVBBAooORI/AAAAAAAAP2Q/pxcMHRZXF70/s1600/american-taliban-gop-meme.jpg)
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 06:21:57 pm
Actually, no, they didn’t create a right out of thin air.  They recognized the right to controlling one’s own body as a fundamental right, and held that under the due process clauses that the government could not interfere with that right in the context of abortion until the fetus was viable. 

They utilized the same basic reasoning they used to impose (most of) the Bill of Rights on the states, even though nothing in the Constitution mandates or expressly permits that result. 

So, if you think that Roe v. Wade invented something that wasn’t permitted by the Constitution, then you’re committed to the position that imposing the Bill of Rights on the states was also illegitimate. 

Which of course means, for example, that you are committed to the position that Oregon was well within its rights to penalize bakers for discriminating against gays.

@Oceander 

Dershowitz and Scalia said that abortion is not in the constitution. Are you saying you know the Constitution better than them?

Asked and Answered, thank you. We may not be all legal-eagles but we can still use reason.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 06:24:05 pm
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKp3k_8h8Qc#)

Trump definitely pro-life, let's hope Tomi and those who think like her go back to the Democratic party.

No President Trump without the Evangelical vote....
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:31:34 pm
@Oceander 

Dershowitz and Scalia said that abortion is not in the constitution. Are you saying you know the Constitution better than them?

Who knows?  Perhaps I do.  Perhaps what it indicates is a difference of opinion on what is a fundamental right, whether such rights exist independent of the express terms of the Constitution (although the Ninth Amendment makes it clear there are), and whether substantive due process exists to protect those rights from any interference by the State at all. 

I, for one, do not see a lot of difference between the process the Roe court used to apply substantive due process protection to the right to one’s body and the process the Supreme Court has used in any number of other cases to apply the limitations of the Bill of Rights to the states through substantive due process under the fourteenth amendment. 

In both cases, the Court relied on emanations and penumbras to reach the conclusions it did.  The concept “ordered liberty” which is the touchstone of much of the cases that impose the Bill of Rights on the states is just as much an emanation or penumbra as is the right to privacy articulated in Roe v. Wade.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:32:45 pm
@Oceander 

Dershowitz and Scalia said that abortion is not in the constitution. Are you saying you know the Constitution better than them?

Asked and Answered, thank you. We may not be all legal-eagles but we can still use reason.

Answered, yes, by my post immediately above.  You should have waited a little longer before presuming I wasn’t answering.   
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:34:13 pm
Your opinion, no one needs the high abortion rates of Maryland in Arkansas. Why do you want to force it on other people?

One can see, high abortion states, NY, California, Planned Parenthood's research arm even stopped giving out that info because there are such big differences. States should legislate, not have it forced on them.

Roe v . Wade doesn’t “force” abortion on anyone; it prevents the states from prohibiting it.  Whether an abortion happens then depends on the decisions made by the women involved. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 06:34:41 pm
So not only do you have zero regard for a woman as a human being, you feel the same way about your kids.

Good to know.


I'm making a point. A point of law. If the sperm donor has no say in the matter then the sperm donor has also no responsibilities. As a matter of law. Right?

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:36:18 pm
For so long as women have the option of abortion, no man should be liable for child support.



Nonsense.  Just because you don’t want to pay for the results of your wild oats doesn’t mean the rest of us have to. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:36:48 pm

I'm making a point. A point of law. If the sperm donor has no say in the matter then the sperm donor has also no responsibilities. As a matter of law. Right?



You’re not making a point of law, you’re stating your own opinion. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 06:38:13 pm
Nonsense.  Just because you don’t want to pay for the results of your wild oats doesn’t mean the rest of us have to.


Why would the rest of us have to?

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 06:38:41 pm
Who knows?  Perhaps I do.  Perhaps what it indicates is a difference of opinion on what is a fundamental right, whether such rights exist independent of the express terms of the Constitution (although the Ninth Amendment makes it clear there are), and whether substantive due process exists to protect those rights from any interference by the State at all. 

I, for one, do not see a lot of difference between the process the Roe court used to apply substantive due process protection to the right to one’s body and the process the Supreme Court has used in any number of other cases to apply the limitations of the Bill of Rights to the states through substantive due process under the fourteenth amendment. 

In both cases, the Court relied on emanations and penumbras to reach the conclusions it did.  The concept “ordered liberty” which is the touchstone of much of the cases that impose the Bill of Rights on the states is just as much an emanation or penumbra as is the right to privacy articulated in Roe v. Wade.

Justice Blackmun wrote a memorandum that the way the Court's decision is interpreted is not the way he intended it. It was meant up to be between a doctor and a woman; and only in certain cases.

Also, again, the State should regulate it as they regulated marriage. Iowa should not have to have the same laws as California.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:39:16 pm

Why would the rest of us have to?



Because your irresponsibility means that there is a much greater likelihood that the child will need welfare, which the taxpayers pay for. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 06:40:00 pm
You’re not making a point of law, you’re stating your own opinion.


How can a man be stuck with child support if the woman could have ended the pregnancy but chose not to?

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:40:23 pm
Justice Blackmun wrote a memorandum that the way the Court's decision is interpreted is not the way he intended it. It was meant up to be between a doctor and a woman; and only in certain cases.

Also, again, the State should regulate it as they regulated marriage. Iowa should not have to have the same laws as California.

Iowa doesn’t have to have the same laws as California.  It just cannot to past a certain point with whatever laws it does have. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 06:41:15 pm
Because your irresponsibility means that there is a much greater likelihood that the child will need welfare, which the taxpayers pay for.


This doesn't apply to me, I was thinking more of you.

Welfare? You're in favor of welfare?

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:41:48 pm

How can a man be stuck with child support if the woman could have ended the pregnancy but chose not to?



Because they both have an obligation to pay for the support of their offspring.  An equal obligation.

Just as the man had the exact same right to not have his body commandeered and used as an involuntary incubator for a nonviable fetus he didn’t want. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 11, 2018, 06:43:01 pm
Because they both have an obligation to pay for the support of their offspring.  An equal obligation.

Just as the man had the exact same right to not have his body commandeered and used as an involuntary incubator for a nonviable fetus he didn’t want.

So why are men not on the hook for the abortion fees?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:43:24 pm

This doesn't apply to me, I was thinking more of you.

Welfare? You're in favor of welfare?



Whether I am or not, the general result of an irresponsible man impregnating a woman is an increase in the cost to the taxpayer. 

Why are you in favor of irresponsibility?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 06:43:57 pm
So why are men not on the hook for the abortion fees?

Maybe they should be.  Take it up with your local legislature. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 07:03:40 pm
Not to be off-topic but obviously, many say Evangelicals elected Trump, the way, Hispanics may have been pivotal in helping Obama into office.

Quote
Trump Elected President, Thanks to 4 in 5 White Evangelicals
Dramatic election ends with historic victory for Donald Trump.
KATE SHELLNUTT NOVEMBER 09, 2016

Exit polls suggest that “Never Trump” was never a likely outcome for white evangelical voters, who showed up to support President-elect Donald Trump at their highest margin since 2004.

Despite reservations expressed by many evangelical and Republican leaders, white born-again/evangelical Christians cast their ballots for the controversial real estate mogul-turned-politician at an 81 percent to 16 percent margin over Hillary Clinton.

Evangelicals of color—who represent 2 in 5 evangelicals, but aren’t segmented out in most national political polls—largely preferred Clinton leading up to the election. But she ultimately underperformed among Hispanics and African Americans compared to President Barack Obama before her.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2016/november/trump-elected-president-thanks-to-4-in-5-white-evangelicals.html (https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2016/november/trump-elected-president-thanks-to-4-in-5-white-evangelicals.html)

It needs to be mentioned, so also when folks use the hateful terminology of the Democratic party, Michael Moore left and so on. Revolting, despite the "Amen" corner.

(http://productionist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/American-Taliban.png)

There's even a book called this.

Dog whistle I guess.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 07:04:40 pm
Roe v . Wade doesn’t “force” abortion on anyone; it prevents the states from prohibiting it.  Whether an abortion happens then depends on the decisions made by the women involved.

It forces the same laws on everyone and plenty of legal scholars say it's nowhere in the Constitution, Scalia, Dershowitz.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 07:08:59 pm
It forces the same laws on everyone and plenty of legal scholars say it's nowhere in the Constitution, Scalia, Dershowitz.

It does not force the same laws on everyone.  It sets limits to what those laws can do, but as long as those limits are respected, the laws themselves can differ.  What those laws cannot do is prohibit abortion before viability. 

I have no problem having a different view from what you say Dershowitz and Scalia have.

Beyond that, of course the word “abortion” isn’t in the Constitution, and neither is the word “privacy” however, the phrase “ordered liberty” isn’t in the Constitution either, but neither of those two gents have any problem for the most part imposing the Bill of Rights on the states on the basis of “ordered liberty” so perhaps it’s a policy issue with them.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 07:11:12 pm
The larger point is that arguing the issue feeds right into the media-fed belief that the GOP wants to take away the woman's right to choose.

WTF is so hard for Republican strategists to understand about that.   Oh wait, it's not them.

Nope...it's a certain type of Conservative...the 'Taliban' of the Republican Party.

Don't like the analogy?  Leave women alone.

It is a distortion beyond belief that protecting the unborn (more than half of whom are women, btw) from butchery is related to the Taliban, which butchers women.

It's almost like you take the truth and deliberately turn it on its head to make a leftist point with no bearing in reality.

I'm going to repeat here what is TRUE.

Abortion is TERRIBLE for women.  It harms body and soul and leads to lifelong guilt that you have killed an innocent human being who is NOT your "own body."

The lies of the left are vile and reprehensible.

And anyone who defends abortion on the basis that it is for women is parroting pure evil.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 07:11:36 pm
@Oceander 

Dershowitz and Scalia said that abortion is not in the constitution.

Does a right not exist if it isn't enumerated?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 07:12:46 pm
Whether I am or not, the general result of an irresponsible man impregnating a woman is an increase in the cost to the taxpayer. 

Why are you in favor of irresponsibility?

And once again, you show your utter and complete DISRESPECT for women in saying that they are not capable of being responsible for themselves.

Of all the people on this forum, you should be the last person who degrades women like this.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 07:15:05 pm
Does a right not exist if it isn't enumerated?

Nope.   Ninth Amendment makes that clear.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 07:17:33 pm
I'm going to repeat here what is TRUE.

Abortion is TERRIBLE for women.  It harms body and soul and leads to lifelong guilt that you have killed an innocent human being who is NOT your "own body." 

Are you saying this thesis is sufficient reason to deny a woman full and sovereign humanity in the eyes of the law? 

@musiclady
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 07:18:51 pm
It is a distortion beyond belief that protecting the unborn (more than half of whom are women, btw) from butchery is related to the Taliban, which butchers women.

It's almost like you take the truth and deliberately turn it on its head to make a leftist point with no bearing in reality.

I'm going to repeat here what is TRUE.

Abortion is TERRIBLE for women.  It harms body and soul and leads to lifelong guilt that you have killed an innocent human being who is NOT your "own body."

The lies of the left are vile and reprehensible.

And anyone who defends abortion on the basis that it is for women is parroting pure evil.

My use of 'Taliban' is limited to their penchant to want to impose their own version of Islam into the mainstream culture.

Personally, I'm pro life.  But, I'm smart enough to know that the dream of overturning RvW is a fantasy.



Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 07:31:39 pm

I'm making a point. A point of law. If the sperm donor has no say in the matter then the sperm donor has also no responsibilities. As a matter of law. Right?

I have spent my adult life defending American men as people who ... with rare exception ... do not consider women property, including their reproductive systems.

The discussions here for the past few days have been a disturbing eye-opener on just how misguided my defense has been.

You may be trying to make a point, but it's not one of law.  At its essence yours is a point of who has ultimate control over the functions of a woman's body.

I feel so sad and so stupid for having defended the indefensible for so damn long.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 11, 2018, 07:36:31 pm
I have spent my adult life defending American men as people who ... with rare exception ... do not consider women property, including their reproductive systems.

The discussions here for the past few days have been a disturbing eye-opener on just how misguided my defense has been.

You may be trying to make a point, but it's not one of law.  At its essence yours is a point of who has ultimate control over the functions of a woman's body.

I feel so sad and so stupid for having defended the indefensible for so damn long.

Oh for Christs sakes. Don't get hurt falling off your high horse.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 07:38:24 pm
My use of 'Taliban' is limited to their penchant to want to impose their own version of Islam into the mainstream culture.

Personally, I'm pro life.  But, I'm smart enough to know that the dream of overturning RvW is a fantasy.

Define "their own version of Islam."

Having been a pro-life activist for decades, I have never, ever seen anything remotely close to the brutal, despicable behavior and attitudes of the Taliban.

It is the LEFT who want the butchery.  RoevWade made Mengele-like, Taliban-like butchery against women LEGAL.

NO one who opposes butchering babies comes even close to Islamo-Fascism.

It's a ridiculous argument.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 07:44:18 pm

How can a man be stuck with child support if the woman could have ended the pregnancy but chose not to?

The woman's decision to continue or terminate the pregnancy doesn't impact the man's obligations in any way.   But if she decides to keep the child and raise it, then, sure, the man will be stuck with child support.   
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 07:46:05 pm

I'm making a point. A point of law. If the sperm donor has no say in the matter then the sperm donor has also no responsibilities. As a matter of law. Right?
@endicom

Many will not concede your eminently logical point:  a man and a woman bear an equal amount of responsibility to have sex that, for the sake of this argument, results in a pregnancy.  However, despite being equally culpable in that initial act, under current law  only one of them (the woman) has any say in what happens next.  Meanwhile the other party (the man) of that same act is solely dependent on what decision the woman makes AND if she chooses to bear the child is then liable for 18 years of support.  So they both decide to have sex, but only the man has no further say in anything.

The obvious solution being that an abortion should require the consent of both parties.  If both do not consent, both should be on the hook for support.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 07:46:13 pm
I have spent my adult life defending American men as people who ... with rare exception ... do not consider women property, including their reproductive systems.

The discussions here for the past few days have been a disturbing eye-opener on just how misguided my defense has been.

You may be trying to make a point, but it's not one of law.  At its essence yours is a point of who has ultimate control over the functions of a woman's body.

I feel so sad and so stupid for having defended the indefensible for so damn long.


I don't think you understand that this is an issue that will in time have to be faced.


Should the father have to pay child support if he wanted an abortion?

22% Say Yes
78% Say No

http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-the-father-have-to-pay-child-support-if-he-wanted-an-abortion (http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-the-father-have-to-pay-child-support-if-he-wanted-an-abortion)
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 07:47:58 pm
Define "their own version of Islam."

Having been a pro-life activist for decades, I have never, ever seen anything remotely close to the brutal, despicable behavior and attitudes of the Taliban.

It is the LEFT who want the butchery.  RoevWade made Mengele-like, Taliban-like butchery against women LEGAL.

NO one who opposes butchering babies comes even close to Islamo-Fascism.

It's a ridiculous argument.

The atrocities of the Taliban have nothing to do with this discussion.

I used the term to illustrate the extreme/radical/unbending views of certain Conservatives.

When a few use religion to force their ideals on everyone, they're one and the same.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 07:53:47 pm
The atrocities of the Taliban have nothing to do with this discussion.

I used the term to illustrate the extreme/radical/unbending views of certain Conservatives.

When a few use religion to force their ideals on everyone, they're one and the same.

Of course the butchery of the Taliban is relevant to your accusation that pro-lifers are like the Taliban, your denial notwithstanding.

The error, however, that you are making in your contorted argument is that being pro-life is necessarily "religious."

It's not.  It's scientific....... especially now that we know for certain about the humanity of the child, and the fact that his or her DNA is complete at conception.

While religious people  are part of the army fighting butchery of children and harm to women, it is not only religious people.

Your anger at people of faith is clouding your vision of what is true.

Millions of babies have been ripped apart and their lives ended because of RoeVWade.

If it is a "fantasy" to end this holocaust, so be it.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 08:02:10 pm
@endicom

Many will not concede your eminently logical point:  a man and a woman bear an equal amount of responsibility to have sex that, for the sake of this argument, results in a pregnancy.  However, despite being equally culpable in that initial act, under current law  only one of them (the woman) has any say in what happens next.  Meanwhile the other party (the man) of that same act is solely dependent on what decision the woman makes AND if she chooses to bear the child is then liable for 18 years of support.  So they both decide to have sex, but only the man has no further say in anything.

The obvious solution being that an abortion should require the consent of both parties.  If both do not consent, both should be on the hook for support.

I can see this happening in the future.
I am somewhat surprised it hasn't yet.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 08:22:30 pm
I can see this happening in the future.
I am somewhat surprised it hasn't yet.

And when it does, all of a sudden it’ll be men getting their hands (and minds) bloody too.   Further, when a man decides “nope, no abortion, I’ll raise the child”, it’ll be women on the hook for 18 years of child support.  True equality under the law...
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: INVAR on July 11, 2018, 08:26:30 pm
I used the term to illustrate the extreme/radical/unbending views of certain Conservatives.

When a few use religion to force their ideals on everyone, they're one and the same.

One and the same?

I'm going to remember that when you go all batshit crazy when I compare you to Mussolini's Blackshirts or Hitler's Brown ones when the analogy is apt.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2018, 08:35:07 pm
The woman's decision to continue or terminate the pregnancy doesn't impact the man's obligations in any way.   But if she decides to keep the child and raise it, then, sure, the man will be stuck with child support.

So Eff the man if he can't take a joke, eh?  It's good to see you verify you believe some people, namely males, have truncated rights compared to the rights of superior females.  When you boast about how you are a champion of "equal rights," you are a first rate hypocrite.  Just as many of us have suspected all along.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 08:45:54 pm
And when it does, all of a sudden it’ll be men getting their hands (and minds) bloody too.   Further, when a man decides “nope, no abortion, I’ll raise the child”, it’ll be women on the hook for 18 years of child support.  True equality under the law...

Again, I am a bit surprised this has not happened yet.
Interesting to see how the courts would handle it.
Equal protection under the law, etc ?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 08:46:17 pm
So Eff the man if he can't take a joke, eh?  It's good to see you verify you believe some people, namely males, have truncated rights compared to the rights of superior females.  When you boast about how you are a champion of "equal rights," you are a first rate hypocrite.  Just as many of us have suspected all along.

What the hell are you talking about?  What "hypocrisy" (do you even know the meaning of the term?)

What is your objection to a man being obligated to help support the child he created? 

My point was in response to the absurd suggestion that if a woman has the unilateral ability to decide to abort, then the man should have the unilateral ability to decline to provide child support.  But the decision to abort or not abort doesn't affect the man's financial responsibilities.  Only her decision to KEEP and RAISE the child does.   And that's a decision that's usually made in concert with the man.  But if she decides on her own to keep it, what is your objection to the man being compelled to pay child support?   BOTH parents have the obligation to support that child, lest it become a ward of the state.   

     
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 08:53:02 pm
@endicom

Many will not concede your eminently logical point:  a man and a woman bear an equal amount of responsibility to have sex that, for the sake of this argument, results in a pregnancy.  However, despite being equally culpable in that initial act, under current law  only one of them (the woman) has any say in what happens next.  Meanwhile the other party (the man) of that same act is solely dependent on what decision the woman makes AND if she chooses to bear the child is then liable for 18 years of support.  So they both decide to have sex, but only the man has no further say in anything.

The obvious solution being that an abortion should require the consent of both parties.  If both do not consent, both should be on the hook for support.

Only one of them has any effective way in what happens next because only one of them has her own body intimately involved in what happens.  That is a distinction with a difference, but it is a difference of biology, not a difference in equality before the law.

If you have a problem with that - as you obviously do - then you should be taking it up with God, not trying to subordinate a woman’s body to the control of the the man, or trying to absolve the man from his fair share of the obligations, including costs, of raising the resulting child. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2018, 08:54:46 pm
What the hell are you talking about?  What "hypocrisy" (do you even know the meaning of the term?)

What is your objection to a man being obligated to help support the child he created? 

My point was in response to the absurd suggestion that if a woman has the unilateral ability to decide to abort, then the man should have the unilateral ability to decline to provide child support.  But the decision to abort or not abort doesn't affect the man's financial responsibilities.  Only her decision to KEEP and RAISE the child does.   And that's a decision that's usually made in concert with the man.  But if she decides on her own to keep it, what is your objection to the man being compelled to pay child support?   BOTH parents have the obligation to support that child, lest it become a ward of the state.   

   

Yeah, whatever.  I'd be pissed if somebody exposed my hypocrisy too.  I'd throw all kinds of dirt in the air as well.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 08:55:09 pm
And when it does, all of a sudden it’ll be men getting their hands (and minds) bloody too.   Further, when a man decides “nope, no abortion, I’ll raise the child”, it’ll be women on the hook for 18 years of child support.  True equality under the law...

If the man can convince a court that he would be a better parent than the woman, then he can probably get sole custody and she will be required to pay child support.  It’s already there, so if that’s your only objection, it’s not a valid one. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 08:57:01 pm
Yeah, whatever.  I'd be pissed if somebody exposed my hypocrisy too.  I'd throw all kinds of dirt in the air as well.

The only hypocrisy here is coming from those who think that the government can force a woman into being an unwilling incubator for a nonviable fetus, and that the “father” should be given carte blanc waiver from any requirement to support the child he helped conceive.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 09:01:01 pm


What is your objection to a man being obligated to help support the child he created? 

What is your objection to a woman being obligated to support a child the man didn't agree to have?

What is your objection to a father having the child come to full term and be raised by him that she wanted to abort?

What about the mother having to pay child support  in that instance?

If you were to say that she had the child against her will, and she shouldn't have to pay child support, couldn't this cut both ways?
It does now, but only in one direction.

No one is suggesting abandoning kids, or forcing pregnancy, or abortions, but as a hypothetical exercise, it's pretty compelling.

Social mores are changing , boys and girls will now be both boys and girls, and somewhere in between.
Things could get interesting in the not too distant future.


I mean, if everyone demands equal rights and a level playing field.....

   

   
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:01:56 pm
The only hypocrisy here is coming from those who think that the government can force a woman into being an unwilling incubator for a nonviable fetus, and that the “father” should be given carte blanc waiver from any requirement to support the child he helped conceive.

You've got the leftist jargon down pat, don't you?

Human life, Oceander.  Human Life.


Stop being a science-denier.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 09:03:52 pm
If the man can convince a court that he would be a better parent than the woman, then he can probably get sole custody and she will be required to pay child support.  It’s already there, so if that’s your only objection, it’s not a valid one.
@Oceander
Not is she decides to kill it first
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 09:06:53 pm
The only hypocrisy here is coming from those who think that the government can force a woman into being an unwilling incubator for a nonviable fetus, and that the “father” should be given carte blanc waiver from any requirement to support the child he helped conceive.

She is not unwilling.   She chose to be willing when she chose to engage in the act of reproduction.  She may want to change her mind, but the horse is out of the barn at that point...and at that point there should be two parties to the decision.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: INVAR on July 11, 2018, 09:08:35 pm
Yeah, whatever.  I'd be pissed if somebody exposed my hypocrisy too.  I'd throw all kinds of dirt in the air as well.

All he has been doing is arguing and justifying his position that some animals are more equal than others.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:09:01 pm
@Oceander
Not is she decides to kill it first


Oh well. He doesn’t get the right to turn her into an involuntary incubator.  If and when the technology advances to the point where he can take over the gestation, then the balance will probably shift to allowing the state to require removal and transfer to the father in lieu of an abortion.

Until then, your beef is with God and the way He designed the biology. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:11:47 pm
She is not unwilling.   She chose to be willing when she chose to engage in the act of reproduction.  She may want to change her mind, but the horse is out of the barn at that point...and at that point there should be two parties to the decision.

No, the horse isn’t out of the barn.  Only someone who thinks that women are subservient to men and can be turned into involuntary incubators for nonviable fetuses would take that position.  Her right to change her mind cannot be overborne until the fetus is viable in a meaningful way. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 09:12:05 pm
One and the same?

I'm going to remember that when you go all batshit crazy when I compare you to Mussolini's Blackshirts or Hitler's Brown ones when the analogy is apt.

You are the poster boy for "extreme", @INVAR in the context of the ongoing conversation.

Because you have a couple of fans on the forum, you continue to strut around here as some sort of moral superiority...or some other kind of sanctimonious bullshit.

You are 'extreme' in a sense that your arrogance is compounded by your ridiculous ego. 

Any sane person would have moderated their POV, personal feelings about the President, by now.   The SOB deserves and ovation.  Instead, you and a couple of your goombahs continue to run around the threads criticizing him. 

You've become caricatures.

You don't know jack shit about my personal experience or feelings about abortion.  I carry that guilt.

That said, it doesn't mean it's up to you and yours to suddenly demand it unlawful for a woman to gain access to one.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 09:13:11 pm
What the hell are you talking about?  What "hypocrisy" (do you even know the meaning of the term?)

What is your objection to a man being obligated to help support the child he created? 

My point was in response to the absurd suggestion that if a woman has the unilateral ability to decide to abort, then the man should have the unilateral ability to decline to provide child support.  But the decision to abort or not abort doesn't affect the man's financial responsibilities.  Only her decision to KEEP and RAISE the child does. And that's a decision that's usually made in concert with the man.  But if she decides on her own to keep it, what is your objection to the man being compelled to pay child support?   BOTH parents have the obligation to support that child, lest it become a ward of the state.   
No MAN has any objection to that.  What we’re objecting to is having to abide by the unilateral decision of the person who engaged in the same act we did.  The abortion should require both parties’ consent.  If not, the child goes to term and she can pay child support for 18 years.

Side win:  I’ll bet a whole helluva lot more people will be a tiny bit more chaste.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 09:14:42 pm
Oh for Christs sakes. Don't get hurt falling off your high horse.

Hit a nerve, haven't I.   :smokin:

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 09:14:45 pm
And at least until it’s viable [...]

The baby is entirely viable all the way along if you leave it alone.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 09:15:26 pm
Never in a million years thought I’d see so many “conservatives” arguing in favor of abortion. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 09:17:03 pm
Never in a million years thought I’d see so many “conservatives” arguing in favor of abortion.

Ain't it the damnedest thing?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:17:38 pm
The baby is entirely viable all the way along if you leave it alone.

Not necessarily.  And also irrelevant.  What matters is whether it is viable at the point in time in which the woman decides to abort it, not what it might become, if at all, at some later date. 

And wrong as a matter of fact because some fetuses spontaneously abort or miscarry, and some simply fail to thrive and are reabsorbed.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 09:18:56 pm
Yeah, whatever.  I'd be pissed if somebody exposed my hypocrisy too.  I'd throw all kinds of dirt in the air as well.

How did you "expose my hypocrisy" when you just threw out a word without any explanation of what you deemed hypocritical and why?   

This is a discussion board, and name-calling is not discussion.   
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:19:07 pm
Never in a million years thought I’d see so many “conservatives” arguing in favor of abortion. 

Seeing people arguing for the freedom and liberty of the individual is a new thing for you, then.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 09:20:43 pm
Ain't it the damnedest thing?

Nobody is "in favor" of it.   Some of us just recognize the established right of the woman to carry a pregnancy to term.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 09:21:40 pm
Never in a million years thought I’d see so many “conservatives” arguing in favor of abortion.

Makes me want to cry..
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 09:22:27 pm
No, the horse isn’t out of the barn.  Only someone who thinks that women are subservient to men and can be turned into involuntary incubators for nonviable fetuses would take that position.  Her right to change her mind cannot be overborne until the fetus is viable in a meaningful way.

She VOLUNTEERED when she elected to have sex, just like he did.  If he’s willing to take on a lifetime of responsibility and heartbreak, her 9months...that she volunteered for... should not .trump that.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Jazzhead on July 11, 2018, 09:22:55 pm
Seeing people arguing for the freedom and liberty of the individual is a new thing for you, then.

 :amen:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 09:23:19 pm
Seeing people arguing for the freedom and liberty of the individual is a new thing for you, then.

The female has the freedom and the liberty, yet the male and the child are denied theirs by virtue of this process.
I find it interesting that this would be argued as conservatism.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 09:23:43 pm
Seeing people arguing for the freedom and liberty of the individual is a new thing for you, then.

*freedom and liberty of the individual*...that should apply to the baby too!
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 09:24:02 pm

Human life, Oceander.  Human Life.  Stop being a science-denier.
 

Look who loves science!  Yeah!  Here's some science for you to learn to love @musiclady :  "Viable Human Life."
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 09:24:18 pm
*freedom and liberty of the individual*...that should apply to the baby too!

Exactly, see my post above yours.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 09:24:35 pm
The female has the freedom and the liberty, yet the male and the child are denied theirs by virtue of this process.
I find it interesting that this would be argued as conservatism.

Good point
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 09:24:43 pm
*freedom and liberty of the individual*...that should apply to the baby too!

A viable baby ... who no longer needs the womb to live.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2018, 09:25:46 pm
If the man can convince a court that he would be a better parent than the woman, then he can probably get sole custody and she will be required to pay child support.  It’s already there, so if that’s your only objection, it’s not a valid one.

I did that, In Pro Per.  I had the boy for over nine years.  I had to file for contempt multiple times to get her to pay the Child Support.  Fortunately, she was a supreme eff-up.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 09:28:02 pm
The female has the freedom and the liberty, yet the male and the child are denied theirs by virtue of this process. 

Why don't you just throw a choke collar around your woman and tie her up in the backyard till you're needing her.   After all, it's the Lord's design that she be good for only two things in this whole damn world.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 09:28:25 pm
A viable baby ... who no longer needs the womb to live.

Like someone said earlier..the baby is viable if you leave it alone.

Some here claim it's a baby when you hear a heartbeat...I believe it's a baby upon conception...
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 09:29:47 pm
Why don't you just throw a choke collar around your woman and tie her up in the backyard till you're needing her.   After all, it's the Lord's design that she be good for only two things in this whole damn world.

Or the woman can keep her legs together or try some contraceptives to avoid the pregnancy
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:30:06 pm
She VOLUNTEERED when she elected to have sex, just like he did.  If he’s willing to take on a lifetime of responsibility and heartbreak, her 9months...that she volunteered for... should not .trump that.



She can change her mind.  Just as you can with whether to invite someone into your house or not.   Just because you invite someone in for a few minutes does not give them the right forever after to live in your house at your expense.  You can change your mind.

So can a woman. 

What you want to do is to give the man greater rights than the woman, so that he can take over her body and use it for his own purposes, no matter what she wants to do. 

That is ante diluvian. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 09:31:29 pm
I did that, In Pro Per.  I had the boy for over nine years.  I had to file for contempt multiple times to get her to pay the Child Support.  Fortunately, she was a supreme eff-up.

This debate often veers into this territory here. I'm surprise, tearing another human being from limb to limb is totally avoided, at least by some. Some pro-choicers laud smears upon Christianity, again, talk about some rights and not others. Some pro-choicers really do seem reminiscent of a regime that didn't see some as humans back in the 1930s. Add to that, vulgarly addressing others, I think we now see who the real bigots are, who the real fascists are, despite some picture of Woody Guthrie, everything is this tidy little argument about a Supreme Court decision that is roundly called false. These are the followers of Margaret Sanger, eugenics. All pretty scary stuff.  Total left-wing-ism, showing again, the sacrament of the American left, really is abortion. The Democrats are the home of the Klan and it really continues.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:31:40 pm
Or the woman can keep her legs together or try some contraceptives to avoid the pregnancy

But otherwise, she’s just an object to be used by the man, or the government, without any consideration for her individual rights or interests.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:33:59 pm
*freedom and liberty of the individual*...that should apply to the baby too!

It does.  However, until the fetus is viable in a meaningful sense, the woman’s rights are paramount.  There is always a balancing of competing interests in cases like this. 

Otherwise, you are turning a woman into a slave for the sake of something that cannot exist except as an appendage to her own body.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 09:34:32 pm
She can change her mind.  Just as you can with whether to invite someone into your house or not.   Just because you invite someone in for a few minutes does not give them the right forever after to live in your house at your expense.  You can change your mind.

So can a woman. 

What you want to do is to give the man greater rights than the woman, so that he can take over her body and use it for his own purposes, no matter what she wants to do. 

That is ante diluvian.

And what's your way? To tear a human being from limb to limb? Really?  Much more civilized.

:bigsilly:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 09:35:25 pm
*freedom and liberty of the individual*...that should apply to the baby too!

That's right.
The only way the government can sanction the taking of the right to life is by just cause or due process. In every other case, across the whole of government, it exists to protect that right to life...
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:37:39 pm
The female has the freedom and the liberty, yet the male and the child are denied theirs by virtue of this process.
I find it interesting that this would be argued as conservatism.

They are not denied anything of the sort. 

With respect to the man, your argument is with biology, not the law.  It is a simple fact that the woman is the one to whom the fetus attaches, and therefore her interest in controlling her own body which has the most effect.  The man is not being denied any freedom whatsoever that the woman has: he has the freedom to control what happens to his own body just as much as she does.

With respect to the fetus: until it is viable, the woman’s rights are paramount.  That is the result of the need to balance competing interests, and that is the result because otherwise the woman is turned into a slave for the sake of something that cannot exist without being attached to her body. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 09:40:17 pm
But otherwise, she’s just an object to be used by the man, or the government, without any consideration for her individual rights or interests.

Unless it's rape she is a willing partner and if he doesn't use a condom it is up to her to use contraceptives...she knows what the outcome could be....
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:40:30 pm
Makes me want to cry..

The left has clearly won the culture war if conservatives are actually arguing that killing babies has anything to do with liberty.

I have never seen such a bastardization of a term in my entire nearly 70 years.

It's disgusting.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:40:33 pm
And what's your way? To tear a human being from limb to limb? Really?  Much more civilized.

:bigsilly:

I am only arguing for the right to the extent the court did: until viability.  You can be as graphic as you want to be but it doesn’t change the fact that you simply wish to turn a woman into a slave for the sake of something that cannot exist without being attached to her.  You don’t have that right.  You don’t have the right to move into someone else’s house and demand that you be fed and clothed, even if you were initially invited in, any more than a previable fetus does. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 09:41:27 pm
Define "their own version of Islam."

Having been a pro-life activist for decades, I have never, ever seen anything remotely close to the brutal, despicable behavior and attitudes of the Taliban.

It is the LEFT who want the butchery.  RoevWade made Mengele-like, Taliban-like butchery against women LEGAL.

NO one who opposes butchering babies comes even close to Islamo-Fascism.

It's a ridiculous argument.

 :amen:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:42:19 pm
Unless it's rape she is a willing partner and if he doesn't use a condom it is up to her to use contraceptives...she knows what the outcome could be....

Ahh.  So now this little baby of which you are so solicitous is just a “consequence”, a punishment to be visited on naughty girls who don’t keep their knees together before marriage. 

Doesn’t sound like you’re all that concerned about the child after all.  Just about punishing “loose” women.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 09:42:49 pm

It's disgusting.

That's right.
And it is not conservative.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:43:14 pm
And what's your way? To tear a human being from limb to limb? Really?  Much more civilized.

:bigsilly:

I swear these people have blinders on when it comes to abortion.

They are absolutely CLUELESS..... IGNORANT....... if at this point in history they don't know what is done to babies for the convenience or financial gain of their mothers.

Sickening that anyone can argue for the dismemberment, poisoning, torture and death of innocent babies and twist it to call it "liberty."
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:43:30 pm
That's right.
The only way the government can sanction the taking of the right to life is by just cause or due process. In every other case, across the whole of government, it exists to protect that right to life...


And until the fetus is viable, due process weighs in favor of the woman’s right to determine what happens to her body. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 09:44:53 pm
And until the fetus is viable, due process weighs in favor of the woman’s right to determine what happens to her body.

The baby is viable if you leave it alone.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:45:13 pm
That's right.
And it is not conservative.

Not even close.

It is stone, cold, hard left.   It is early 20th century progressivism.  It is bald faced racism.  It is eugenics, and aiming for a 'perfect' society.

It is as far left as any argument ever made.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:46:12 pm
The baby is viable if you leave it alone.

That is speculation, not 100% guaranteed.  And it’s irrelevant. What matters is what it is at the point in time that the woman wants to get rid of it. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:47:03 pm
Nice to see that old-school theocracy is alive and well.  Maybe we should bring back the veil, too. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 09:48:01 pm
Ahh.  So now this little baby of which you are so solicitous is just a “consequence”, a punishment to be visited on naughty girls who don’t keep their knees together before marriage. 

Doesn’t sound like you’re all that concerned about the child after all.  Just about punishing “loose” women.

A PUNISHMENT? Every woman I know who has entered into motherhood does not consider that child a punishment, but rather, a great blessing.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:48:13 pm
Seeing people arguing for the freedom and liberty of the individual is a new thing for you, then.

And what you are doing here is the POLAR OPPOSITE of arguing for freedom and liberty of the individual.

You are taking the truth and distorting it beyond recognition.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 09:48:30 pm
Why don't you just throw a choke collar around your woman and tie her up in the backyard till you're needing her.   After all, it's the Lord's design that she be good for only two things in this whole damn world.

I tried that, and damned if she didn't chew through the rope and get away!

Seriously, where is this coming from?
Hyperbole much?

Equal rights and equal protection must apply to all or they are meaningless.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:49:25 pm
Nice to see that old-school theocracy is alive and well.  Maybe we should bring back the veil, too.

I see you don't mind making a complete fool of yourself.

But that's what happens when you argue from the hard left as an anti-conservative.

You just look dumb.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:50:12 pm
A PUNISHMENT? Every woman I know who has entered into motherhood does not consider that child a punishment, but rather, a great blessing.

Echoes of Barack Obama.

Radical leftism.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 09:50:57 pm
That is speculation, not 100% guaranteed.  And it’s irrelevant. What matters is what it is at the point in time that the woman wants to get rid of it.


Viability is never 100% guaranteed. For all we know, YOU are not viable right now.

As to what it is, it is a baby. An wholly unique individual, complete with every trait it is ever going to have.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 09:51:35 pm
That is speculation, not 100% guaranteed.  And it’s irrelevant. What matters is what it is at the point in time that the woman wants to get rid of it.

Thanks for admitting that a baby is only human if a woman happens to FEEL like it is.

More leftist distortion.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 09:56:00 pm
They are not denied anything of the sort. 

With respect to the man, your argument is with biology, not the law.  It is a simple fact that the woman is the one to whom the fetus attaches, and therefore her interest in controlling her own body which has the most effect.  The man is not being denied any freedom whatsoever that the woman has: he has the freedom to control what happens to his own body just as much as she does.

With respect to the fetus: until it is viable, the woman’s rights are paramount.  That is the result of the need to balance competing interests, and that is the result because otherwise the woman is turned into a slave for the sake of something that cannot exist without being attached to her body.

If both consent to have sex with no contraception, then both should have the sames rights/protections/responsibilities as the other.
To have it any other way, would be a violation of equal protection under the law.
If it was a crime (rape, etc) or under false pretenses (saying one can't get pregnant or impregnate one, for whatever reason, failure to take/use agreed contraception, etc), now we're talking legal action.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2018, 09:57:57 pm
This debate often veers into this territory here. I'm surprise, tearing another human being from limb to limb is totally avoided, at least by some. Some pro-choicers laud smears upon Christianity, again, talk about some rights and not others. Some pro-choicers really do seem reminiscent of a regime that didn't see some as humans back in the 1930s. Add to that, vulgarly addressing others, I think we now see who the real bigots are, who the real fascists are, despite some picture of Woody Guthrie, everything is this tidy little argument about a Supreme Court decision that is roundly called false. These are the followers of Margaret Sanger, eugenics. All pretty scary stuff.  Total left-wing-ism, showing again, the sacrament of the American left, really is abortion. The Democrats are the home of the Klan and it really continues.

Don't kid yourself.  She kept the baby with the intent of socking it to me over and over for 18 years.  If she had thought it a financially better deal, she would have hacked that baby right on out, he was just a tool for her to get on some sort of Easy Street.  She failed to appreciate I might just fight back and prove I would be the better parent.

And I did it myself.  No attorney.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 09:59:41 pm
A PUNISHMENT? Every woman I know who has entered into motherhood does not consider that child a punishment, but rather, a great blessing.


Then why was it treated as a punishment?

I agree that children are not a punishment.  But saying that a woman should not be allowed to abort a previable fetus because she “knew the consequences” is precisely turning the child into a punishment. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:01:04 pm
If both consent to have sex with no contraception, then both should have the sames rights/protections/responsibilities as the other.
To have it any other way, would be a violation of equal protection under the law.
If it was a crime (rape, etc) or under false pretenses (saying one can't get pregnant or impregnate one, for whatever reason contraception, etc), now we're talking legal action.


And they both do:   They both have the right to decide what happens to their own body before the fetus becomes viable, without interference from the other or from the government.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:03:06 pm
After all, it's the Lord's design that she be good for only two things in this whole damn world.

If that is how you view a natural woman in her natural role, you're a greater misogynist than anyone here.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 10:03:11 pm
Like someone said earlier..the baby is viable if you leave it alone.

Isn't this the essential question:  Who has the right to tell a sovereign human being what she must or must not do with/to her own body from week 1 to week 24 of a pregnancy? 


The baby is viable if you leave it alone just isn't so funny or cute any more.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 10:04:20 pm
If that is how you view a natural woman in her natural role, you're a greater misogynist than anyone here.
 

Bullshit.

Although after reading some posts from the women, I can see why you're so confused.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 10:05:45 pm
And they both do:   They both have the right to decide what happens to their own body before the fetus becomes viable, without interference from the other or from the government.

Agreed! 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 10:05:52 pm
Unless it's rape she is a willing partner and if he doesn't use a condom it is up to her to use contraceptives...she knows what the outcome could be....

Wait... last night you were saying abortion shouldn't be permitted for just "the claim of rape".  Have you changed your mind?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:06:18 pm
If that is how you view a natural woman in her natural role, you're a greater misogynist than anyone here.

@Right_in_Virginia  is one of the few here who is not being a misogynist. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:07:23 pm
That is ante diluvian.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6a/22/ec/6a22ec1372350bb64757502d070d8492.jpg)
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:07:29 pm
Then why was it treated as a punishment?

I agree that children are not a punishment.  But saying that a woman should not be allowed to abort a previable fetus because she “knew the consequences” is precisely turning the child into a punishment.

What you are missing in all your arguments is that the child is innocent.

Why do you continue to argue that an admitted human life is being taken because allowing it to live is some form of "punishment?"

Your argument makes absolutely no sense in a rational world.

The woman can carry the baby to term and give him/her up for adoption.

Your problem, as with all leftists making these specious arguments, is that you are denying the reality of the pain and suffering of the baby and saying, go ahead and torture it, because being pregnant is an inconvenience to a woman.

You are arguing that the convenience of a woman whose behavior has been irresponsible is more important that the life of a human child.

btw, your argument about veils and such is really so stupid that it shouldn't be addressed, but I just want it on the record once again, that arguing FOR abortion is arguing AGAINST women, and has nothing to do with your twisted view of people of faith.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 10:08:03 pm
And they both do:   They both have the right to decide what happens to their own body before the fetus becomes viable, without interference from the other or from the government.

@Oceander

...and viability has, and always will be, an argument.
The last I've noticed, viability is scientifically being skewed closer and closer towards the time conception, dropping from months to weeks.
I'm reading that heartbeats and brain functions are happening in the womb sooner than previously thought.

And now, for a hypothetical:

Could you foresee a day when a pregnant women, wanting to abort, could, in fact, transfer the baby via "Brave New World" to a test tube type situation, whereby the father, who wanted the child, could bring it to term?

As the Shakespeare quote that Huxley borrowed from says "O, brave new world that has such people in't!”
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 10:08:26 pm
I wish Tomi and the other fake Trump supporters skiddaddle to support Hillary, Evangelicals voted Trump in, no, not everyone did. There were protests or boycotts at Liberty but in the overall scheme, they are the prime reason he is in the White House, at least one of the top 3 reasons. Evangelicals are largely pro-life.  Any reasonable research shows all of this to be so.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:09:27 pm
Isn't this the essential question:  Who has the right to tell a sovereign human being what she must or must not do with/to her own body from week 1 to week 24 of a pregnancy? 


It isn't what she is doing to her own body that is in question. It is what she is doing to her baby. That is the point.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:09:27 pm
What you are missing in all your arguments is that the child is innocent.

Why do you continue to argue that an admitted human life is being taken because allowing it to live is some form of "punishment?"

Your argument makes absolutely no sense in a rational world.

The woman can carry the baby to term and give him/her up for adoption.

Your problem, as with all leftists making these specious arguments, is that you are denying the reality of the pain and suffering of the baby and saying, go ahead and torture it, because being pregnant is an inconvenience to a woman.

You are arguing that the convenience of a woman whose behavior has been irresponsible is more important that the life of a human child.

btw, your argument about veils and such is really so stupid that it shouldn't be addressed, but I just want it on the record once again, that arguing FOR abortion is arguing AGAINST women, and has nothing to do with your twisted view of people of faith.

I’m not the one who said she willingly had sex and she knew the consequences, so she shouldn’t be allowed to abort the result.  Talk of consequences is talk of punishment, plain and simple, and I’m not the one calling a child a punishment. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:09:32 pm
@Right_in_Virginia  is one of the few here who is not being a misogynist.

NO.

She is the only female here who has no respect for her own gender.

And I'm sure, like you guys here, is completely and willfully ignorant of the facts of abortion, and the harm it does to women.

YOU are the misogynist.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 10:09:44 pm
@Right_in_Virginia  is one of the few here who is not being a misogynist.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClH6VnzUYAA5hN9.jpg)

 :rolling:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:10:11 pm
It isn't what she is doing to her own body that is in question. It is what she is doing to her baby. That is the point.

Until the fetus is viable, her right to control her own body trumps whatever rights the fetus may have.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 10:10:20 pm

As far as viability goes, the same arguments can be made for some of the infirm and aged.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:10:35 pm
 

Bullshit.

Although after reading some posts from the women, I can see why you're so confused.

I assure you dear, I am not the one who is confused.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:10:53 pm
NO.

She is the only female here who has no respect for her own gender.

And I'm sure, like you guys here, is completely and willfully ignorant of the facts of abortion, and the harm it does to women.

YOU are the misogynist.

Hardly. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:11:03 pm
I’m not the one who said she willingly had sex and she knew the consequences, so she shouldn’t be allowed to abort the result.  Talk of consequences is talk of punishment, plain and simple, and I’m not the one calling a child a punishment.

More pretzeling, I see.

Consequences are natural results of behavior.  Punishment is imposed by someone else.

They are not even close to being the same thing.

Upgrade your vocabulary, and perhaps you'll start to understand the ignorance of your arguments, Barack.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 10:11:32 pm

Sickening that anyone can argue for the dismemberment, poisoning, torture and death of innocent babies and twist it to call it "liberty."

Oh, for heaven's sake calm down @musiclady   You're referencing late term abortion when no one else is.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:12:13 pm
Hardly.

Absolutely.

Ignorant and anti-woman.

If you respected women, you wouldn't be here arguing against the life and health of women as you are.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:13:16 pm
More pretzeling, I see.

Consequences are natural results of behavior.  Punishment is imposed by someone else.

They are not even close to being the same thing.

Upgrade your vocabulary, and perhaps you'll start to understand the ignorance of your arguments, Barack.

Exactly.  The child is being used as punishment by those who deny a woman the right to control her body at any point after the sex act.  It is they who are using the child as an instrument of punishment to punish the woman for not keeping her knees closed. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:13:48 pm
As far as viability goes, the same arguments can be made for some of the infirm and aged.

The flip side of the Progressive argument we're getting here.

It's the logical next step to ridding the world of non-viable, unwanted human beings.

Useless human beings are not needed in a leftist perfect world.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:15:09 pm
Absolutely.

Ignorant and anti-woman.

If you respected women, you wouldn't be here arguing against the life and health of women as you are.

Hardly.  You don’t know anything about me, you just know that I don’t subscribe to your own religious convictions, and you hate me for that. 

Your patronizing misogyny is breathtaking, particularly considering that you are a woman.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 10:15:13 pm
I wish Tomi and the other fake Trump supporters skiddaddle to support Hillary, Evangelicals voted Trump in, no, not everyone did. There were protests or boycotts at Liberty but in the overall scheme, they are the prime reason he is in the White House, at least one of the top 3 reasons. Evangelicals are largely pro-life.  Any reasonable research shows all of this to be so.

Tomi Lahren has a method to her madness...doubling down on the NBC interview today.

1) She lost her job with BLAZE (Beck) for offering a Pro-Choice POV.

2) She recognizes NOW is the opportunity for her to grab on with somebody.  Even an alphabet network.
She can be a 'star' speaking from a Conservative woman's POV.

But make no mistake.  She is CONSERVATIVE in every other sense, and will have to bite her tongue raw.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:16:16 pm
Exactly.  The child is being used as punishment by those who deny a woman the right to control her body at any point after the sex act.  It is they who are using the child as an instrument of punishment to punish the woman for not keeping her knees closed.

LOL!

Now I know you're not serious.    *****rollingeyes*****

btw, I will repeat this little fact that you deny.  A baby is not "her mother's body."  You, Oceander, were never, ever, ever your mother's body. 

You were you from conception.

That is science.  What you are claiming is a lie.

You are a science denier.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:16:24 pm
You are arguing that the convenience of a woman whose behavior has been irresponsible is more important that the life of a human child.


Which invokes my catch-all phrase:

Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

What we had, once upon a time, was liberty.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:17:24 pm
@Oceander

...and viability has, and always will be, an argument.
The last I've noticed, viability is scientifically being skewed closer and closer towards the time conception, dropping from months to weeks.
I'm reading that heartbeats and brain functions are happening in the womb sooner than previously thought.

And now, for a hypothetical:

Could you foresee a day when a pregnant women, wanting to abort, could, in fact, transfer the baby via "Brave New World" to a test tube type situation, whereby the father, who wanted the child, could bring it to term?

As the Shakespeare quote that Huxley borrowed from says "O, brave new world that has such people in't!”

Sure, it could happen.  And at that point, if the technology were available, the government could impose on the woman’s right to abort because it would be in a position to take over the gestation of the fetus. But it would have to do so in a meaningful way, not just in some empty artificial way. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:17:58 pm
Until the fetus is viable, her right to control her own body trumps whatever rights the fetus may have.

The baby IS viable. Leave him alone.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:19:04 pm
As far as viability goes, the same arguments can be made for some of the infirm and aged.



Really?  They are intimately connected to another human being’s blood supply and housed inside that human being’s own body?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:20:13 pm
The baby IS viable. Leave him alone.

When it reaches actual viability, then you have a claim; until then, you do not.  Until then, you are simply an interloper who wishes to control another human being against her own wishes. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:20:40 pm
Hardly.  You don’t know anything about me, you just know that I don’t subscribe to your own religious convictions, and you hate me for that. 

Your patronizing misogyny is breathtaking, particularly considering that you are a woman.

Wow.

You've just jumped off the deep end without a life preserver. 

But I think you've caught the disease of calling anyone with whom you cannot win an argument based on truth, a "hater."

Pretty funny, considering that you make a pretense of being so cerebral and all.  Your leftist religion has apparently turned your brain to jello.

Abortion kills human beings and does irreparable harm to women.

And you know it.

We'll talk again if and when you recover your rationality.   Until then.........

Bye.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 11, 2018, 10:20:41 pm
NO.

She is the only female here who has no respect for her own gender.


Big whoop. You clearly have no idea what "respect" means @musiclady

Besides, I've known you for years and have long thought you were part of the super secret Christian Sanhedrin.  Let the record show you've not done anything to convince me otherwise.

BTW-- it has long been other women who have driven the pregnant woman to the closet in search of a coat hanger.  Sadly, little has changed.



Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:21:28 pm
Wow.

You've just jumped off the deep end without a life preserver. 

But I think you've caught the disease of calling anyone with whom you cannot win an argument based on truth, a "hater."

Pretty funny, considering that you make a pretense of being so cerebral and all.  Your leftist religion has apparently turned your brain to jello.

Abortion kills human beings and does irreparable harm to women.

And you know it.

We'll talk again if and when you recover your rationality.   Until then.........

Bye.



Just feeding your own hatred back at you.  You apparently haven’t read what you’ve been posting. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:22:22 pm
When it reaches actual viability, then you have a claim; until then, you do not.  Until then, you are simply an interloper who wishes to control another human being against her own wishes.

The baby IS viable, at any given time if left alone. Leave the baby be.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:22:40 pm
Which invokes my catch-all phrase:

Liberty has responsibilities.
Freedom has consequences.

What we had, once upon a time, was liberty.

The left has never been interested in human liberty.

And they clearly are continuing to succeed in taking it away from us....

It's interesting how they distort vocabulary and the meaning of words to make their specious arguments, isn't it?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: DCPatriot on July 11, 2018, 10:23:59 pm
Please!   Everyone take a deep breath.

Leave the thread for a half hour if you're getting into it with somebody.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:25:27 pm
It's interesting how they distort vocabulary and the meaning of words to make their specious arguments, isn't it?

They're not distorting vocabulary... It is their view that is distorted. They cannot see.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:25:37 pm
Just feeding your own hatred back at you.  You apparently haven’t read what you’ve been posting.

Yeah.............. actually I have.

You don't respect women.  You don't respect liberty.   And you vomit the propaganda of the left.

If you don't like that being pointed out, then don't make such ridiculous arguments.

Devil's advocate or no, your words make you look foolish, illogical, irrational and unscientific ........

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:26:19 pm
The baby IS viable, at any given time if left alone. Leave the baby be.

No, it isn’t. It is only viable if it is capable of living outside the uterus. Until that point it is not viable.  It might become viable at some point, but until then it is nonviable. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:26:59 pm
They're not distorting vocabulary... It is their view that is distorted. They cannot see.

But the left has a long history of changing language to convince the gullible that their lies are truth.

There is no better illustration of that than in the argument in favor of murdering the pre-born human.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 10:28:15 pm
Sure, it could happen.  And at that point, if the technology were available, the government could impose on the woman’s right to abort because it would be in a position to take over the gestation of the fetus. But it would have to do so in a meaningful way, not just in some empty artificial way.

@Oceander

Not necessarily the Government taking over the fetus, per se.
Let's say there was an registry, like for organ transplants.
The biological father would have first choice, followed by her own adult family members, etc.
If they passed on the opportunity, there could be to a pre-approved adoption registry, like they do for organ transplant recipients.

Hey, just a thought.

I'm pro-life, and I'd like to see abortion curtailed as much as possible, by these means, or morning after pill availability, or whatever it would take.
I'd rather find a solution to it than holler at one another across the table.
I'm pro-life enough to be anti death penalty, but not anti self-defense, but those are discussions for another time and place.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 11, 2018, 10:29:31 pm
Why don't you just throw a choke collar around your woman and tie her up in the backyard till you're needing her.   After all, it's the Lord's design that she be good for only two things in this whole damn world.

Literally nobody has said that. Quit lying, pro abortion @Right_in_Virginia .
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:29:39 pm
Yeah.............. actually I have.

You don't respect women.  You don't respect liberty.   And you vomit the propaganda of the left.

If you don't like that being pointed out, then don't make such ridiculous arguments.

Devil's advocate or no, your words make you look foolish, illogical, irrational and unscientific ........



No, actually, you haven’t.  That’s evident because you think you’ve made some sort of argument when all you’ve done is spew bile about how evil anyone who would countenance abortion is, and thrown out ad hominems about how such people don’t respect women. As if turning a woman into an involuntary incubator - a mere thing - for the sake of a zygote that cannot live outside the uterus is the epitome of respect. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:30:44 pm
@Oceander

Not necessarily the Government taking over the fetus, per se.
Let's say there was an registry, like for organ transplants.
The biological father would have first choice, followed by her own adult family members, etc.
If they passed on the opportunity, there could be to a pre-approved adoption registry, like they do for organ transplant recipients.

Hey, just a thought.

I'm pro-life, and I'd like to see abortion curtailed as much as possible, by these means, or morning after pill availability, or whatever it would take.
I'd rather find a solution to it than holler at one another across the table.
I'm pro-life enough to be anti death penalty, but not anti self-defense, but those are discussions for another time and place.

I can see that working.  It’s too bad the technology isn’t here now. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:31:35 pm
They're not distorting vocabulary... It is their view that is distorted. They cannot see.

Right back atcha, sport. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 10:32:57 pm
I can see that working.  It’s too bad the technology isn’t here now.

@Oceander
I am hoping it isn't that far away.
As we all know, couples can already have another woman carry a baby for them, fertilized outside of the womb and implanted.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:33:01 pm
No, it isn’t. It is only viable if it is capable of living outside the uterus. Until that point it is not viable.  It might become viable at some point, but until then it is nonviable.

No. That is an artificial benchmark, every bit as artificial as saying the child is not viable until 10, or 12, or 18 years old.

IN FACT: Left to the natural order of things, the baby IS viable, or the abortion would be unnecessary.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:34:53 pm
No. That is an artificial benchmark, every bit as artificial as saying the child is not viable until 10, or 12, or 18 years old.

IN FACT: Left to the natural order of things, the baby IS viable, or the abortion would be unnecessary.

You can twist words all you want, but the fact of the matter is, until the fetus has the present ability to survive outside the uterus, it is not viable. Pull a two-week fetus out of the uterus and it will not survive no matter what technology you throw at it.  It is not viable. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 10:40:57 pm
Ahh.  So now this little baby of which you are so solicitous is just a “consequence”, a punishment to be visited on naughty girls who don’t keep their knees together before marriage. 

Doesn’t sound like you’re all that concerned about the child after all.  Just about punishing “loose” women.

I never said that..to me a baby will always be a miracle...
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 10:42:25 pm
I never said that..to me a baby will always be a miracle...

I agree.  But using the terminology of consequences takes away the miracle and justifies its continued existence as an instrument of punishment for a woman who didn’t keep her knees together.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 10:45:46 pm
Really?  They are intimately connected to another human being’s blood supply and housed inside that human being’s own body?


Dependent on the goodwill and monetary support of others. Not independently viable.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 10:45:52 pm
Wait... last night you were saying abortion shouldn't be permitted for just "the claim of rape".  Have you changed your mind?

No..not saying that at all. I was referring to how a baby was conceived..sex by mutual agreement or rape......the baby is still a baby no matter how it was conceived.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 10:46:02 pm
No, actually, you haven’t.  That’s evident because you think you’ve made some sort of argument when all you’ve done is spew bile about how evil anyone who would countenance abortion is, and thrown out ad hominems about how such people don’t respect women. As if turning a woman into an involuntary incubator - a mere thing - for the sake of a zygote that cannot live outside the uterus is the epitome of respect.

I admit that I hate that millions of babies have been slaughtered in the name of "women's rights" and control over "her own body," both of which are lies (which you have used).

I admit that I hate the lie that people arguing for the torture and painful death of babies are using women as an excuse for their evil.

Abortion is evil.  It mutilates babies and harms women.

I'm sorry that you have been so inculcated with leftist propaganda that you believe what you've been saying here.

On other subjects where you are more rational, I will be happy to discuss issues with you.

On this one, you are a merely a puppet for the woman hating left, and I am the staunchest defender of women's rights on this board.

We will never agree..

(That's not hatred.  That's reality).
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Axeslinger on July 11, 2018, 10:48:06 pm
I agree.  But using the terminology of consequences takes away the miracle and justifies its continued existence as an instrument of punishment for a woman who didn’t keep her knees together.

Incorrect...under the scenario I proposed, she has the CONSEQUENCE of carrying the baby to term and then the father who wanted the child would have the honor, joy and responsibility of raising it.   I don’t believe a 9month consequence for a contract she entered into voluntarily is too much to ask in contrast to the taking of an innocent life. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 11, 2018, 10:50:13 pm
I agree.  But using the terminology of consequences takes away the miracle and justifies its continued existence as an instrument of punishment for a woman who didn’t keep her knees together.

Abortion has become birth control which I remember was argued that it never would become that..people too lazy to use some sort of contraception can always rely on an abortion.

I have read that most people who get abortions have done it several times
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 11, 2018, 10:50:15 pm
Boom. Mic drop @musiclady .
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:52:15 pm
But the left has a long history of changing language to convince the gullible that their lies are truth.

There is no better illustration of that than in the argument in favor of murdering the pre-born human.

Yes, undoubtedly. But it is their uninformed and myopic view that allows for it.

To wit: How many women still believe in abortion after having held child to breast? Every mother I know instinctively knows that the child is not for her, but that she is for the child. An instinct so primitive and profound cannot be modernized by sophistry.

Rudyard said it best:
Quote

   But the Woman that God gave him, every fibre of her frame
    Proves her launched for one sole issue, armed and engined for the same;
    And to serve that single issue, lest the generations fail,
    The female of the species must be deadlier than the male.

    She who faces Death by torture for each life beneath her breast
    May not deal in doubt or pity—must not swerve for fact or jest.
    These be purely male diversions—not in these her honour dwells—
    She the Other Law we live by, is that Law and nothing else.

    She can bring no more to living than the powers that make her great
    As the Mother of the Infant and the Mistress of the Mate.
    And when Babe and Man are lacking and she strides unclaimed to claim
    Her right as femme (and baron), her equipment is the same.

    She is wedded to convictions—in default of grosser ties;
    Her contentions are her children, Heaven help him who denies!—
    He will meet no suave discussion, but the instant, white-hot, wild,
    Wakened female of the species warring as for spouse and child.

   Excerpt - The Female of the Species, by Rudyard Kipling


There is *nothing* - NOTHING that a woman can EVER do, that will ever mean more than that which these few would deny. There is nothing more noble. There is nothing more honorable. There is nothing more important than that child she has. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, indeed.

Those that would sully such a thing for the mere escape from consequence are woefully blind, and bent upon coarser things...
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 11, 2018, 10:55:15 pm
Yes, undoubtedly. But it is their uninformed and myopic view that allows for it.

To wit: How many women still believe in abortion after having held child to breast? Every mother I know instinctively knows that the child is not for her, but that she is for the child. An instinct so primitive and profound cannot be modernized by sophistry.

Rudyard said it best:
There is *nothing* - NOTHING that a woman can EVER do, that will ever mean more than that which these few would deny. There is nothing more noble. There is nothing more honorable. There is nothing more important than that child she has. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, indeed.

Those that would sully such a thing for the mere escape from consequence are woefully blind, and bent upon coarser things...

The most empowering experience ever: growing a human being and physically bringing it into this world.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: the_doc on July 11, 2018, 10:56:22 pm
The right was ALWAYS there.  It is a natural right of a human being to have self-determination over his or her destiny.   The Constitution was established to protect our natural rights from the tyranny of the State.   

Sixty years ago the government could forbid the use of contraceptives.  Forty years ago the government could force a pregnant woman to reproduce.   Yes,  science has advanced greatly since the 70s, but so has our respect for the rights and equality before the law of women.   

The patriarchy is dead.   Get used to it.

A baby in the womb is a being, and he or she is definitely human.  He or she is therefore a person.  The baby has unalienable rights--the most important of which is the right to life--even if the baby cannot "self-determine its destiny."  And your point about a woman's right to self-determination does not give a woman the right to murder her baby--because the BABY has the right to life.

The baby is not just "part of the woman's body."  Such a notion is anatomically repugnant, not to mention morally repugnant.  It is an anatomical and philosophical fraud designed to cover up the fact that abortion is one person murdering another person.

Your points about what the government did 60 years ago and 40 years ago have nothing to do with anything in the argument.  We are talking about your supposed "right to murder"--which you have (alas, very stupidly) styled as a lovely thing of "self-determination";  we are not talking about government overreach in the past.  You are just muddying the water with the legal manure of bad law-making.  And speaking of bad law-making in the past, Roe v Wade was a horrific overreach of law-making by a bunch of reprobates in black robes.  If I recall correctly, the crucial claim of "Constitutionality" in the Roe v Wade decision was not about "self-determination" except as such "self-determination" was falsely centered on the right to privacy--which is a completely nonsensical right when it supposedly concerns a right to murder.  (Your side's supposed "right of privacy" is certainly not some kind of Fourth Amendment thing "woven through the entire fabric of the Constitution."  And it goes without saying that your argument that the Constitution was established to protect our natural rights from the tyranny of the State is just self-righteous window-dressing--since no one has the natural right to commit murder.)

As the brilliant Christian intellectual John Silber once pointed out (in a famous debate with Madelyn Murray O'Hair, I believe) you do not have even have an unrestricted right of self-determination.  Laws are necessary for protection of our rights.  And speaking of self-determination--specifically, the argument that a woman has "the right to do as she wishes with her own body"--Silber went on to say she doesn't even have the unrestricted right to wiggle her own index finger.  It's because she has no such "right" when her finger is on the trigger of a loaded gun pointed at a baby's head. 

In short, your argument about natural rights is monumentally stupid. 

I hate to say that to someone whom I have tried to maintain as a friend here on TBR, but your phony "Constitutional argument" goes way beyond the pale.  As a person who would still hope to call you a friend, I have to be faithful enough to you to confront you with the fact that you have neither genuinely legal nor genuinely moral legs to stand on.  Unfortunately, you just don't care enough to face your own hypocrisy.  You just want women to be able to murder their kids.  (Are you pro-Agenda 21, too?  Most of the really powerful liberals in the world seem to love Agenda 21.  [And a lot of white liberals evidently do want black women to be able to abort their babies.  It's Margaret Sanger's attitude secretly updated.]) 

My bottom-line point is that the spirit of liberalism is the spirit of murder.  It is conspicuously evil.  It is so conspicuously evil as to be sick, even downright DISGUSTING.  That is the reason why Roe v Wade should be overturned.  It's an evil ruling.  We've had more than one of those in the past, of course.  But I think Roe v Wade is probably the worst.

By the way, our whole world is monstrously sick in our day.  Children are being raped, tortured and murdered by ghouls all over the world.  I respectfully urge you to get well away from the liberals.  Demeaning unborn babies as non-persons who can be sacrificed without penalty or even remorse is the tip of a horrible iceberg of wickedness in our day.  The whole mess of murdering kids for convenience or for power is probably the biggest scandal in the history of mankind.  And the revelations about this network are going to break soon.         
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: GrouchoTex on July 11, 2018, 10:57:21 pm
Abortion has become birth control which I remember was argued that it never would become that..people too lazy to use some sort of contraception can always rely on an abortion.

I have read that most people who get abortions have done it several times

Sanger's eugenics at work.
The largest percentage of women having abortions are poor and African-american, just like Sanger wanted.
No one wants to hear that or believe it.
I had someone tell me the other day that if you are poor and southern, it was harder to get an abortion.
I pointed out to her that one of the largest PP clinics in the nation was in Houston, so that didn't wash.
It seems to be rich white liberal women who speak out the loudest in favor of it.
Wonder why? Sanger's eugenics philosophy?
Could be Tomi Lahren is just that, a rich liberal white woman.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 10:58:22 pm
You can twist words all you want[...]

I twisted nothing, The very reason *for* the abortion is to curtail the child's viability. That is indeed the matter of fact.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: TomSea on July 11, 2018, 11:04:17 pm
Ahh.  So now this little baby of which you are so solicitous is just a “consequence”, a punishment to be visited on naughty girls who don’t keep their knees together before marriage. 

Doesn’t sound like you’re all that concerned about the child after all.  Just about punishing “loose” women.

Well, it's sure clear your type don't, if the baby is torn to pieces, burned by saline solution and so on.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 11:05:13 pm
The most empowering experience ever: growing a human being and physically bringing it into this world.

And I cannot honor that enough.
There is no woman more powerful than a woman surrounded by her children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. That is what these few would take away.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: skeeter on July 11, 2018, 11:08:07 pm
Sanger's eugenics at work.
The largest percentage of women having abortions are poor and African-american, just like Sanger wanted.
No one wants to hear that or believe it.
I had someone tell me the other day that if you are poor and southern, it was harder to get an abortion.
I pointed out to her that one of the largest PP clinics in the nation was in Houston, so that didn't wash.
It seems to be rich white liberal women who speak out the loudest in favor of it.
Wonder why? Sanger's eugenics philosophy?
Could be Tomi Lahren is just that, a rich liberal white woman.

65% of all US abortions are hispanic & black babies.

Its ironic that those screaming loudest for the 'right to choose' seem to be the same kind who will whip out the race card on a dime.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 11:09:28 pm

Dependent on the goodwill and monetary support of others. Not independently viable.



Then not comparable. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:12:09 pm
Boom. Mic drop @musiclady .

 ^-^
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 11:12:42 pm
I twisted nothing, The very reason *for* the abortion is to curtail the child's viability. That is indeed the matter of fact.

It’s not viable until it can live outside the uterus.  You can twist words all you want, but what matters is whether, at the point in time the woman attempts to abort it, it can live outside the uterus.  If it cannot, then it is not viable, no matter what it might become later on. 

You are simply playing empty word games because you have no real argument to make. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 11, 2018, 11:14:00 pm
And I cannot honor that enough.
There is no woman more powerful than a woman surrounded by her children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. That is what these few would take away.

I just don’t understand why pro abortion women want to make it easier for men to use them. The irony of claiming empowerment, yet supporting a horrific execution method so that men can just use their holes and walk away. Yay feminism.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 11:15:52 pm
Incorrect...under the scenario I proposed, she has the CONSEQUENCE of carrying the baby to term and then the father who wanted the child would have the honor, joy and responsibility of raising it.   I don’t believe a 9month consequence for a contract she entered into voluntarily is too much to ask in contrast to the taking of an innocent life. 

Nonsense.  You want to turn the unconsenting woman into a thing to be at the disposal of the father, and subject to his control.  You want to give him greater rights over her body than you would give her over her own body.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 11:16:30 pm
It’s not viable until it can live outside the uterus.

Then there is no need for abortion. It is not viable, and will be reabsorbed, as you have so deftly put it. There! Problem solved!
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:17:23 pm
65% of all US abortions are hispanic & black babies.

Its ironic that those screaming loudest for the 'right to choose' seem to be the same kind who will whip out the race card on a dime.

Or maybe not so ironic.

Abortion disguised as a "woman's right" is a diabolical cover for the Progressive desire to rid the world of undesirables.

Their pretense at caring about race and defending minorities is merely part of that cover.

Unfortunately, the radical left has succeeded in convincing the gullible that they are sincere in their concern for both minorities and women.

They don't give a rip about either group.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:19:22 pm
Nonsense.  You want to turn the unconsenting woman into a thing to be at the disposal of the father, and subject to his control.  You want to give him greater rights over her body than you would give her over her own body.

More fantasy with no basis in truth.

But you have the leftist jargon down pat, for sure, ludicrous as it is.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 11:19:46 pm
A baby in the womb is a being, and he or she is definitely human.  He or she is therefore a person.  The baby has unalienable rights--the most important of which is the right to life--even if the baby cannot "self-determine its destiny."  And your point about a woman's right to self-determination does not give a woman the right to murder her baby--because the BABY has the right to life.

The baby is not just "part of the woman's body."  Such a notion is anatomically repugnant, not to mention morally repugnant.  It is an anatomical and philosophical fraud designed to cover up the fact that abortion is one person murdering another person.

Your points about what the government did 60 years ago and 40 years ago have nothing to do with anything in the argument.  We are talking about your supposed "right to murder"--which you have (alas, very stupidly) styled as a lovely thing of "self-determination";  we are not talking about government overreach in the past.  You are just muddying the water with the legal manure of bad law-making.  And speaking of bad law-making in the past, Roe v Wade was a horrific overreach of law-making by a bunch of reprobates in black robes.  If I recall correctly, the crucial claim of "Constitutionality" in the Roe v Wade decision was not about "self-determination" except as such "self-determination" was falsely centered on the right to privacy--which is a completely nonsensical right when it supposedly concerns a right to murder.  (Your side's supposed "right of privacy" is certainly not some kind of Fourth Amendment thing "woven through the entire fabric of the Constitution."  And it goes without saying that your argument that the Constitution was established to protect our natural rights from the tyranny of the State is just self-righteous window-dressing--since no one has the natural right to commit murder.)

As the brilliant Christian intellectual John Silber once pointed out (in a famous debate with Madelyn Murray O'Hair, I believe) you do not have even have an unrestricted right of self-determination.  Laws are necessary for protection of our rights.  And speaking of self-determination--specifically, the argument that a woman has "the right to do as she wishes with her own body"--Silber went on to say she doesn't even have the unrestricted right to wiggle her own index finger.  It's because she has no such "right" when her finger is on the trigger of a loaded gun pointed at a baby's head. 

In short, your argument about natural rights is monumentally stupid. 

I hate to say that to someone whom I have tried to maintain as a friend here on TBR, but your phony "Constitutional argument" goes way beyond the pale.  As a person who would still hope to call you a friend, I have to be faithful enough to you to confront you with the fact that you have neither genuinely legal nor genuinely moral legs to stand on.  Unfortunately, you just don't care enough to face your own hypocrisy.  You just want women to be able to murder their kids.  (Are you pro-Agenda 21, too?  Most of the really powerful liberals in the world seem to love Agenda 21.  [And a lot of white liberals evidently do want black women to be able to abort their babies.  It's Margaret Sanger's attitude secretly updated.]) 

My bottom-line point is that the spirit of liberalism is the spirit of murder.  It is conspicuously evil.  It is so conspicuously evil as to be sick, even downright DISGUSTING.  That is the reason why Roe v Wade should be overturned.  It's an evil ruling.  We've had more than one of those in the past, of course.  But I think Roe v Wade is probably the worst.

By the way, our whole world is monstrously sick in our day.  Children are being raped, tortured and murdered by ghouls all over the world.  I respectfully urge you to get well away from the liberals.  Demeaning unborn babies as non-persons who can be sacrificed without penalty or even remorse is the tip of a horrible iceberg of wickedness in our day.  The whole mess of murdering kids for convenience or for power is probably the biggest scandal in the history of mankind.  And the revelations about this network are going to break soon.         

More drivel and nonsense.  You can bandy the word “murder” around all you want, but it doesn’t cut it, because all sorts of killing of one human by another is routinely not only permitted, but celebrated. 

Shoot an innocent kid by accident because you thought you were defending yourself, and you don’t get charged with murder, for example. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 11:20:35 pm
I just don’t understand why pro abortion women want to make it easier for men to use them. The irony of claiming empowerment, yet supporting a horrific execution method so that men can just use their holes and walk away. Yay feminism.

It is without a doubt, the most vile attack upon womanhood, motherhood, and matriarchy that has ever been devised. Ironic indeed.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:21:39 pm
I just don’t understand why pro abortion women want to make it easier for men to use them. The irony of claiming empowerment, yet supporting a horrific execution method so that men can just use their holes and walk away. Yay feminism.

Indeed.

Abortion is the antithesis of actual feminism (that is, what is good for women).
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 11:21:43 pm
Quote from: endicom on Today at 06:45:46 PM

Quote
Dependent on the goodwill and monetary support of others. Not independently viable.


Then not comparable.


Who is responsible for the support of the non-viable infirm and elderly?

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: skeeter on July 11, 2018, 11:21:53 pm
Or maybe not so ironic.

Abortion disguised as a "woman's right" is a diabolical cover for the Progressive desire to rid the world of undesirables.

Their pretense at caring about race and defending minorities is merely part of that cover.

Unfortunately, the radical left has succeeded in convincing the gullible that they are sincere in their concern for both minorities and women.

They don't give a rip about either group.

Progressives are a perfect reverse barometer. Whatever lofty principles they say they stand for, the opposite is true.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 11:22:47 pm
Progressives are a perfect reverse barometer. Whatever lofty principles they say they stand for, the opposite is true.

That turns out to be pretty true.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: skeeter on July 11, 2018, 11:23:40 pm
That turns out to be pretty true.

I guess that makes them regressives.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 11:23:58 pm
Quote from: endicom on Today at 06:45:46 PM



Who is responsible for the support of the non-viable infirm and elderly?



It’s not the issue of responsibility in the abstract, it’s the issue of a fetus being attached to your body, using your blood supply, being inside your body.  Your example does not have any of those issues and is therefore irrelevant to the issue of viability in context of abortion.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 11, 2018, 11:26:19 pm
I just don’t understand why pro abortion women want to make it easier for men to use them. The irony of claiming empowerment, yet supporting a horrific execution method so that men can just use their holes and walk away. Yay feminism.

Because you don’t understand what you think you do.  Refusing to be turned into an involuntary incubator for someone else’s purposes is not making it easier to be used. 

You’re either ill-informed, or lying.  Yay ignorance, and lies. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:31:34 pm
Because you don’t understand what you think you do.  Refusing to be turned into an involuntary incubator for someone else’s purposes is not making it easier to be used. 

You’re either ill-informed, or lying.  Yay ignorance, and lies.

No.  She's telling the truth because she is well informed.

I'm certainly glad the majority of us here know the facts and argue truth, and only you remain to argue the leftist lies.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 11, 2018, 11:32:55 pm
Because you don’t understand what you think you do.  Refusing to be turned into an involuntary incubator for someone else’s purposes is not making it easier to be used. 

You’re either ill-informed, or lying.  Yay ignorance, and lies.

DO NOT mansplain pregnancy to me. I am no incubator. I am a mother. Quit objectifying women by renaming our body parts and bodily functions. You have no right to debase women in such a way.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:35:46 pm
DO NOT mansplain pregnancy to me. I am no incubator. I am a mother. Quit objectifying women by renaming our body parts and bodily functions. You have no right to debase women in such a way.

BRAVA!!!!!
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 11:37:29 pm
I guess that makes them regressives.

LOL! That is pretty true too... The fires of Moloch...
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 11:40:04 pm
DO NOT mansplain pregnancy to me. I am no incubator. I am a mother.

BOOM!

That's a mike drop if ever there was one!
 888high58888 888high58888 888high58888
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: INVAR on July 11, 2018, 11:41:18 pm
You are the poster boy for "extreme", @INVAR in the context of the ongoing conversation.

Well then, like I said - if I am the 'Christian Taliban' in your estimation, it's the height of hypocrisy from you when you go bitch and moan to the mods as you do when your posts are called for being the apt comparisons to Hitlerian Brownshirt bullshit that history teaches us commands your groupthink intimidation efforts.

As to 'moral superiority' - that's just your seared conscience in the bewailing and gnashing of teeth when the truth is something you hate.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: endicom on July 11, 2018, 11:42:15 pm
It’s not the issue of responsibility in the abstract, it’s the issue of a fetus being attached to your body, using your blood supply, being inside your body.  Your example does not have any of those issues and is therefore irrelevant to the issue of viability in context of abortion.

People must sacrifice portions of their lives to the care of non-viable infirm and elderly, either directly, in person, or indirectly through voluntary or involuntary monetary contribution.

The alternative is euthanasia, being now practiced or proposed. No abstraction there.


Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:44:20 pm
BOOM!

That's a mike drop if ever there was one!
 888high58888 888high58888 888high58888

The best I've seen here.

The truth stabbed the lie with a two-edged sword, piercing its heart.

It was a BEAUTIFUL thing, @goodwithagun !   I'm still smiling!   :laugh:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:47:06 pm
People must sacrifice portions of their lives to the care of non-viable infirm and elderly, either directly, in person, or indirectly through voluntary or involuntary monetary contribution.

The alternative is euthanasia, being now practiced or proposed. No abstraction there.

Indeed.

And part of the two-fold goal of Progressives to purify society. 

Your question is not only valid, but crucial to discussion with those who would diminish the value of living human beings.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 11, 2018, 11:51:00 pm
People must sacrifice portions of their lives to the care of non-viable infirm and elderly, either directly, in person, or indirectly through voluntary or involuntary monetary contribution.

The alternative is euthanasia, being now practiced or proposed. No abstraction there.

Because feminists have told women that they can do anything. I am woman hear me roar. Women in combat. No glass ceilings. Girl power . . . unless you get pregnant then go ahead and get rid of it because you can’t be a mom right now.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Sighlass on July 11, 2018, 11:54:07 pm
That is speculation, not 100% guaranteed.  And it’s irrelevant. What matters is what it is at the point in time that the woman wants to get rid of it. 

No what matters is it is separate human life. The rest is selfishness usually because they (one or both) wanted the freedom to act like freaking godless animals without responsibility. Abortion is a freedom at the greatest expense to another's freedom, freedom to act like mindless animals that has no inkling of how precious life is produced. Mindless animals don't make for great citizens (ones that care to make and raise responsible citizens), but do make for great lawyer fodder.

Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 11, 2018, 11:57:51 pm
Still reflecting on the audacity and abject arrogance/ignorance of a liberal MAN presuming to speak for women, but belittling us by calling us "incubators."

The four children who were conceived in me, as unique human beings, and I had the blessing of carrying and giving birth to, were my sons and daughters from the first day.  And they were valuable, unique human beings, even if I did not 'want' them.

The lack of respect for women and children from the left is breathtaking.


(I notice our resident leftists never acknowledge that a pregnant woman has the option of giving her child up for adoption.  It is the inconvenience of pregnancy that for them, warrants the extinction of millions of innocents.  NO woman needs to be "punished" [their words] with a baby.  They have the RIGHT to give that child, whom they have given life, to loving parents who do want that precious life).
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 11, 2018, 11:59:31 pm
It is without a doubt, the most vile attack upon womanhood, motherhood, and matriarchy that has ever been devised. Ironic indeed.

Females are born with all of their eggs. That means when I was pregnant with my daughters, I was carrying part of my future grandchildren. How freaking amazing is that! On a horrific note, aborted baby girls are also carrying parts of their mothers’ grandchildren.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2018, 11:59:45 pm
What matters is what it is at the point in time that the woman wants to get rid of it.

Well, you state a pretty good justification for birthing a baby all the way to its head, jamming scissors into it and sucking the brains out.  Any old point in time will do.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 11, 2018, 11:59:53 pm
No what matters is it is separate human life. The rest is selfishness usually because they (one or both) wanted the freedom to act like freaking godless animals without responsibility. Abortion is a freedom at the greatest expense to another's freedom, freedom to act like mindless animals that has no inkling of how precious life is produced. Mindless animals don't make for great citizens (ones that care to make and raise responsible citizens), but do make for great lawyer fodder.


While I always agree with you @Sighlass , you are doing mindless animals an injustice... As a rule, they have their babies and care for them.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:01:25 am
Still reflecting on the audacity and abject arrogance/ignorance of a liberal MAN presuming to speak for women, but belittling us by calling us "incubators."

The four children who were conceived in me, as unique human beings, and I had the blessing of carrying and giving birth to, were my sons and daughters from the first day.  And they were valuable, unique human beings, even if I did not 'want' them.

The lack of respect for women and children from the left is breathtaking.


(I notice our resident leftists never acknowledge that a pregnant woman has the option of giving her child up for adoption.  It is the inconvenience of pregnancy that for them, warrants the extinction of millions of innocents.  NO woman needs to be "punished" [their words] with a baby.  They have the RIGHT to give that child, whom they have given life, to loving parents who do want that precious life).

Insists prolifers want to turn women into The Handmaid’s Tale. Calls women incubators.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:01:28 am
DO NOT mansplain pregnancy to me. I am no incubator. I am a mother. Quit objectifying women by renaming our body parts and bodily functions. You have no right to debase women in such a way.

Me debase women?  I’m not the one who thinks that motherhood should be forced onto an unwilling woman by the government, through use of force if necessary.  That is the real debasement here.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:03:20 am
Insists prolifers want to turn women into The Handmaid’s Tale. Calls women incubators.

It is only the anti-abortionists who see women as incubators to be forced to bear children.  Those of us who are sticking up for the dignity and respect of a woman’s fundamental right to decide what gets done with her body are the ones showing respect. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: the_doc on July 12, 2018, 12:05:10 am
More drivel and nonsense.  You can bandy the word “murder” around all you want, but it doesn’t cut it, because all sorts of killing of one human by another is routinely not only permitted, but celebrated. 

Shoot an innocent kid by accident because you thought you were defending yourself, and you don’t get charged with murder, for example.

Thanks for your facetious way of framing the controversy between my TBR friend Jazzhead and me in my Post #210.  (LOL)

***

On a more serious note, I use the word "murder" precisely because it is POLITICALLY INCORRECT for describing practically all abortions but otherwise COMPLETELY CORRECT for describing practically all abortions. 

The pro-abortion crowd and the fence-sitters ought to watch the video "Silent Scream."  Watching an ultrasound video of a baby being aborted is a good reason for using inflammatory language.   (No laughing matter for us at this point.)
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 12:06:17 am
It is only the anti-abortionists who see women as incubators to be forced to bear children.  Those of us who are sticking up for the dignity and respect of a woman’s fundamental right to decide what gets done with her body are the ones showing respect.

Except that SCIENTIFICALLY, it is not her body.

Why does the truth not matter to you?

You are belittling women with your arguments, and yet you persist in the fantasy that you are 'sticking up' for our dignity.

What a joke.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Sighlass on July 12, 2018, 12:06:27 am

While I always agree with you @Sighlass , you are doing mindless animals an injustice... As a rule, they have their babies and care for them.


Point taken, you are right.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:08:38 am
Except that SCIENTIFICALLY, it is not her body.

Why does the truth not matter to you?

You are belittling women with your arguments, and yet you persist in the fantasy that you are 'sticking up' for our dignity.

What a joke.

A woman’s body is not her own?  To whom does it belong?  Her father?  Her husband?  What about live-in boyfriends?  The government?  If her own body doesn’t belong to her, to whom does it belong?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Sighlass on July 12, 2018, 12:09:57 am
It is only the anti-abortionists who see women as incubators to be forced to bear children.  Those of us who are sticking up for the dignity and respect of a woman’s fundamental right to decide what gets done with her body are the ones showing respect. 

Her body decided to support another life. It is her heart that decided differently.

"The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:09:58 am
Thanks for your facetious way of framing the controversy between my TBR friend Jazzhead and me in my Post #210.  (LOL)

***

On a more serious note, I use the word "murder" precisely because it is POLITICALLY INCORRECT for describing practically all abortions but otherwise COMPLETELY CORRECT for describing practically all abortions. 

The pro-abortion crowd and the fence-sitters ought to watch the video "Silent Scream."  Watching an ultrasound video of a baby being aborted is a good reason for using inflammatory language.   (No laughing matter for us at this point.)

Yes, you use the word “murder” the way that other liberals use the word “racism”: as a means of cutting off all discussion and asserting your own virtuousness. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:10:38 am
Me debase women?  I’m not the one who thinks that motherhood should be forced onto an unwilling woman by the government, through use of force if necessary.  That is the real debasement here.

Not going to explain how this is wrong. Many others here have already done this on the thread. Restating it obviously won’t matter  **nononono*
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:11:05 am
Females are born with all of their eggs. That means when I was pregnant with my daughters, I was carrying part of my future grandchildren. How freaking amazing is that!

Stunning, isn't it? How can that be without design?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:11:21 am
Her body decided to support another life. It is her heart that decided differently.

"The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is?


But she has no control over it. So who does control it?  Her father?  Her husband?  The government?  Is she just borrowing it from one of them when she lives in it?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 12:12:30 am
A woman’s body is not her own?  To whom does it belong?  Her father?  Her husband?  What about live-in boyfriends?  The government?  If her own body doesn’t belong to her, to whom does it belong?

The body you advocate destroying and causing great pain in the process, is a separate human being INSIDE a woman's body.

Why do you continue denying what is true?

Why do you continue distorting the argument with leftist false platitudes?

You certainly must realize how badly you are losing this argument, don't you?

Probably best for you to bow out to avoid further embarrassment.

(btw, unless you once had a uterus and ovaries filled with eggs, you were NEVER your mother's body.  Oy  *****rollingeyes*****).
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:13:35 am
Not going to explain how this is wrong. Many others here have already done this on the thread. Restating it obviously won’t matter  **nononono*

That’s because it’s not wrong; you just don’t have the courage, or the honesty, to admit it. 

What you want to do is to force motherhood on women who otherwise do not wish to be mothers.  That is debasing them and treating them as objects, as mere means to an end, and not as an end in themselves.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:13:58 am
Me debase women?  I’m not the one who thinks that motherhood should be forced onto an unwilling woman

She wasn't forced. She participated in the act voluntarily. That was the point of decision.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:14:16 am
Stunning, isn't it? How can that be without design?

Yep. I bet the Designer is against abortion.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:14:51 am
That’s because it’s not wrong; you just don’t have the courage, or the honesty, to admit it. 

What you want to do is to force motherhood on women who otherwise do not wish to be mothers.  That is debasing them and treating them as objects, as mere means to an end, and not as an end in themselves.

No, it’s been posted over and over. I’d simply be repeating what others have already posted.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 12:15:01 am
But she has no control over it. So who does control it?  Her father?  Her husband?  The government?  Is she just borrowing it from one of them when she lives in it?

 :facepalm2:

Killing a separate human being INSIDE her body is not "controlling her own body."  It is destroying someone ELSE's body.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: the_doc on July 12, 2018, 12:15:08 am
It is only the anti-abortionists who see women as incubators to be forced to bear children.  Those of us who are sticking up for the dignity and respect of a woman’s fundamental right to decide what gets done with her body are the ones showing respect.

The baby ain't part of her body.  It's in her body, and it's attached to her body, and it's dependent on her body.  But it's a separate human being inside her--a separate person whom the woman wants to murder.

There ain't no dignity or respect that should be shown for a "fundamental right" that she doesn't even have.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: txradioguy on July 12, 2018, 12:15:56 am
Quote
Shoot an innocent kid by accident because you thought you were defending yourself, and you don’t get charged with murder, for example

Bad example on your part. Over zealous liberals like yourself who hate the 2nd Amenent prosecute cases like what you described all the time.

It's the very reason the NRA and the USCCA provide specific insurance policies for gun owners.

Not to mention it comes in handy when the same gun hating DA's office wants to prosecute legal gun owners for shooting an armed intruder.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 12:16:21 am
No, it’s been posted over and over. I’d simply be repeating what others have already posted.

At a certain point, one has to give up, even on a slow learner.

He is ineducable.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:17:23 am
Yes, you use the word “murder” the way that other liberals use the word “racism”: as a means of cutting off all discussion and asserting your own virtuousness.

No, the word 'murder' is apt. Intentional, premeditated killing of a human being... That's what the word is for.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Sighlass on July 12, 2018, 12:18:01 am
But she has no control over it. So who does control it?  Her father?  Her husband?  The government?  Is she just borrowing it from one of them when she lives in it?

Obviously you must of dated a few women looser than what I dated. They fully understood how to control it.


Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:20:13 am
Yep. I bet the Designer is against abortion.

Ya think? Maybe we should go look at the Plan...
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: txradioguy on July 12, 2018, 12:20:22 am
It's very disturbing and really kinda sad that on a Conservative political forum there are those defending abortion...something the Republican Party has had stance solidly against as a plank in it's official party platform for the last 46 years.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:21:35 am
At a certain point, one has to give up, even on a slow learner.

He is ineducable.

 I know many women who’ve had miscarriages at 6-8 weeks. They didn’t shrug and say it’s only a blob of cells. They openly mourned the loss of their babies. Imagine walking up to a mom who recently miscarried at six weeks and saying, “It’s just a smattering of cells you know. It’s not like it was a baby.”
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:22:31 am
The body you advocate destroying and causing great pain in the process, is a separate human being INSIDE a woman's body.

Why do you continue denying what is true?

Why do you continue distorting the argument with leftist false platitudes?

You certainly must realize how badly you are losing this argument, don't you?

Probably best for you to bow out to avoid further embarrassment.

(btw, unless you once had a uterus and ovaries filled with eggs, you were NEVER your mother's body.  Oy  *****rollingeyes*****).

I’m not denying anything that is true.  I am simply asserting that, as a general matter, each individual has the fundamental right to decide what happens with his or her body.  In the context of a pregnancy, that fundamental right includes the right to decide whether to continue playing host to another human being.  And that this right cannot be countermanded by the government through the prohibition of abortion so long as that other human being remains nonviable; i.e., is not sufficiently developed to survive outside the womb by, for example, not having lungs capable of absorbing oxygen from the air breathed in yet.  After that point, once the fetus has become viable in a meaningful sense, and only then, does the government have a sufficient interest in the fetus that it can limit the woman’s ability to abort the fetus. 

For the fetuses existence to have sufficient weight to outweigh the woman’s right to control her own body, it’s separate existence must have become meaningful in some concrete way that would allow it some real possibility of surviving apart from the woman.  Until then, it’s existence is not sufficient to outweigh her rights because it has no existence apart from its connection to her. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:23:19 am
That’s because it’s not wrong; you just don’t have the courage, or the honesty, to admit it. 

What you want to do is to force motherhood on women who otherwise do not wish to be mothers.  That is debasing them and treating them as objects, as mere means to an end, and not as an end in themselves.

You know that public schools are required to teach pregnancy prevention, right? For decades. True story.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:24:13 am
That’s because it’s not wrong; you just don’t have the courage, or the honesty, to admit it. 

Yes it is wrong. Stone-dead wrong, and utterly vile.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:24:39 am
Obviously you must of dated a few women looser than what I dated. They fully understood how to control it.




Ooh.  An irrelevant ad hominem that manages to smear not only me, but my wife and the mother of my children.

But answer the question, won’t you:  if a woman does not have a legal right to own or control her body, who does have that legal right?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:26:05 am
Yes it is wrong. Stone-dead wrong, and utterly vile.

No it isn’t.  Shall we continue playing the yes-it-is, no-it-isn’t game some more?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:27:50 am
You know that public schools are required to teach pregnancy prevention, right? For decades. True story.

So now you are turning a child, which you just finished calling a miracle, into a punishment for women who didn’t learn their lessons and forgot to keep their knees tight together.

How typical. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:30:25 am
So now you are turning a child, which you just finished calling a miracle, into a punishment for women who didn’t learn their lessons and forgot to keep their knees tight together.

How typical.

Never said the punsishment part. He did.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: txradioguy on July 12, 2018, 12:30:54 am
If a woman doesn't want to be a mother...either don't have sex or take steps to prevent pregnancy before hand.

It's just idiocy to think that motherhood or abortion are the only two choices.

Not to mention it's degrading to women in general because it is a position that basically tells the woman she has no self control and can't help spreading her legs.

It's insulting.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:31:01 am
It's very disturbing and really kinda sad that on a Conservative political forum there are those defending abortion...something the Republican Party has had stance solidly against as a plank in it's official party platform for the last 46 years.

It’s even more disturbing and sad that even in the 21st century, so many otherwise intelligent people think that women should have motherhood forced on them, and that it’s acceptable to turn an unwilling woman into an incubator for a nonviable fetus. 

@Right_in_Virginia  said it best earlier.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:32:36 am
If a woman doesn't want to be a mother...either don't have sex or take steps to prevent pregnancy before hand.

It's just idiocy to think that motherhood or abortion are the only two choices.

Not to mention it's degrading to women in general because it is a position that basically tells the woman she has no self control and can't help spreading her legs.

It's insulting.

Nobody said that motherhood or abortion were the only two options.  That’s a straw man of your own invention. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: mystery-ak on July 12, 2018, 12:33:17 am
:facepalm2:

Killing a separate human being INSIDE her body is not "controlling her own body."  It is destroying someone ELSE's body.

And there you have it!!!!!.....that's exactly what it is.....I think I am done with this thread...Those proclaiming to be conservatives and support abortion are fooling themselves..you are NOT a conservative.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:33:28 am
No it isn’t.  Shall we continue playing the yes-it-is, no-it-isn’t game some more?

Yes we will, because abortion has been, since time immemorial, a vile act. Modernity and it's clinics do not change the act.

For a mother to kill her child (in the womb no less) has always been savage and vile, by the very definition of what a mother IS, or is supposed to be.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:36:44 am
If a woman doesn't want to be a mother...either don't have sex or take steps to prevent pregnancy before hand.

It's just idiocy to think that motherhood or abortion are the only two choices.

Not to mention it's degrading to women in general because it is a position that basically tells the woman she has no self control and can't help spreading her legs.

It's insulting.

Women are so stupid we either can’t figure out birth control, or can’t control ourselves, or both. I’m so glad rich white males voted for Roe v. Wade so I never have to educate myself or learn to control my impulses. (Read this next part as Oprah) You get to let men treat you like dirt, and you get to let men treat you like dirt , and everybody in the audience gets to let men treat you like dirt! Hay ohhhhh!
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:37:08 am
Never said the punsishment part. He did.

True, you don’t have the honesty to own the necessary implications of your own words.  In your view, if a woman didn’t learn how to avoid pregnancy, or simply didn’t keep her knees closed, then she has to be forced to bear the consequences.  What are the consequences?  The child.  Forcing someone to bear the consequences of their actions is punishment for those actions.  So you are willing to use a child as an instrument to punish a woman who, in your estimation, was too stupid to keep her knees shut.

Shame on you. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:37:59 am
And there you have it!!!!!.....that's exactly what it is.....I think I am done with this thread...Those proclaiming to be conservatives and support abortion are fooling themselves..you are NOT a conservative.

Word.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:39:06 am
True, you don’t have the honesty to own the necessary implications of your own words.  In your view, if a woman didn’t learn how to avoid pregnancy, or simply didn’t keep her knees closed, then she has to be forced to bear the consequences.  What are the consequences?  The child.  Forcing someone to bear the consequences of their actions is punishment for those actions.  So you are willing to use a child as an instrument to punish a woman who, in your estimation, was too stupid to keep her knees shut.

Shame on you.

If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Four. Calling a tail a leg does not make it a leg. Calling a baby a punishment because a man and a woman made a poor choice doesn’t make the baby a punishment. Perhaps the baby is the result of a poor choice, but some very bad choices have had beautiful results.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:40:51 am
Yes we will, because abortion has been, since time immemorial, a vile act. Modernity and it's clinics do not change the act.

For a mother to kill her child (in the womb no less) has always been savage and vile, by the very definition of what a mother IS, or is supposed to be.

Actually, no, it hasn’t been, historically, if done before quickening.

But that’s neither here nor there, because one can always choose a tidbit from history that supports one’s position rhetorically.

The simple fact is, before a fetus is in fact viable, the government does not have the right to prevent the woman from aborting that nonviable fetus.  To say otherwise is to turn a woman into an object and remove from her her dignity as a human being.  It is to enslave her. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:42:21 am
Didn’t I already post that sex ed is a public school requirement? Pretty sure I did.

Yes, when you confirmed that you are vile enough to turn a child into an instrument of punishment to use against women who failed to heed those lessons. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 12:42:25 am
I’m not denying anything that is true.  I am simply asserting that, as a general matter, each individual has the fundamental right to decide what happens with his or her body.  In the context of a pregnancy, that fundamental right includes the right to decide whether to continue playing host to another human being.  And that this right cannot be countermanded by the government through the prohibition of abortion so long as that other human being remains nonviable; i.e., is not sufficiently developed to survive outside the womb by, for example, not having lungs capable of absorbing oxygen from the air breathed in yet.  After that point, once the fetus has become viable in a meaningful sense, and only then, does the government have a sufficient interest in the fetus that it can limit the woman’s ability to abort the fetus. 

For the fetuses existence to have sufficient weight to outweigh the woman’s right to control her own body, it’s separate existence must have become meaningful in some concrete way that would allow it some real possibility of surviving apart from the woman.  Until then, it’s existence is not sufficient to outweigh her rights because it has no existence apart from its connection to her.

More propaganda from the left, not based on truth.

Once again, the compromise even you devoted leftists could agree on, but refuse to, is that the life doesn't have to be ended if the woman carries the life SHE MADE THE DECISION TO HELP CREATE to term, gives birth, and then gives the child up for adoption.

We are talking about your saying the convenience of the mother who MADE THE CHOICE to have sex is more important than the life created by her CHOICE.

And you have said it repeatedly, so you clearly mean it.

Convenience for you trumps life.

Bad choice.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 12:45:10 am
And there you have it!!!!!.....that's exactly what it is.....I think I am done with this thread...Those proclaiming to be conservatives and support abortion are fooling themselves..you are NOT a conservative.

Not even close to conservative.

Nor rational.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:46:47 am
More propaganda from the left, not based on truth.

Once again, the compromise even you devoted leftists could agree on, but refuse to, is that the life doesn't have to be ended if the woman carries the life SHE MADE THE DECISION TO HELP CREATE to term, gives birth, and then gives the child up for adoption.

We are talking about your saying the convenience of the mother who MADE THE CHOICE to have sex is more important than the life created by her CHOICE.

And you have said it repeatedly, so you clearly mean it.

Convenience for you trumps life.

Bad choice.

And until that birth takes place, you have stripped an unwilling woman of her humanity and turned her into an incubator gestating someone else’s kid. 

You don’t have any respect for those women; you see them only as things, to be used and controlled for someone else’s desires and goals. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Sighlass on July 12, 2018, 12:48:10 am
Ooh.  An irrelevant ad hominem that manages to smear not only me, but my wife and the mother of my children.

But answer the question, won’t you:  if a woman does not have a legal right to own or control her body, who does have that legal right?

Nice attempted stretch to try and make it personal. Emotional appeal now comes in play.

A woman does have the right to control her body, up to the point she permits (yes permits) the other dna to reach her egg. Then she is either working "with" her body or "against" it, because her body has a job it was designed preciously to do and knows well. After fertilization it is no longer "her" body, it is separate life. The only factors that should come in play then is if the baby seriously risks her life beyond reasonable doubt and perhaps rape/incest (estimates range from around a low 3,600 to 50,000 yearly depending on how liberal a source you choose to view).
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:48:53 am
Actually, no, it hasn’t been, historically, if done before quickening.


A specious argument... Until very recently, whether pregnancy itself was not sure until quickening.

Quote
The simple fact is, before a fetus is in fact viable, the government does not have the right to prevent the woman from aborting that nonviable fetus.  To say otherwise is to turn a woman into an object and remove from her her dignity as a human being.  It is to enslave her.

Utter horsecrap. There is no, No, NO 'dignity' in killing your baby. and it is no more slavery for her to bear her consequences than it is for you to bear the consequences of jumping off a roof... Even if you do change your mind half way down. The difference being that she can be done with her consequence 9 short months later.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:49:48 am
And there you have it!!!!!.....that's exactly what it is.....I think I am done with this thread...Those proclaiming to be conservatives and support abortion are fooling themselves..you are NOT a conservative.

Then you will have to give up claiming the right to use lethal force to protect yourself or someone else, because that is just as much killing another human being. 

If you wish to be consistent, then you must concede that one cannot be a conservative unless one is a pacifist who will resort to nonviolent means only. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:51:00 am
Yes, when you confirmed that you are vile enough to turn a child into an instrument of punishment to use against women who failed to heed those lessons.

Again, don’t mansplain conception, pregnancy, labor, and delivery to me. I sometimes hear women say, “Every man should have a baby. That’ll teach him!” And I think, wow. How awesome would it be for all of us to feel that first flutter in our bellies! Then I think, damn I’m so glad I’m a woman. I can grow humans. What’s your super power?
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:51:21 am
A specious argument... Until very recently, whether pregnancy itself was not sure until quickening.

Utter horsecrap. There is no, No, NO 'dignity' in killing your baby. and it is no more slavery for her to bear her consequences than it is for you to bear the consequences of jumping off a roof... Even if you do change your mind half way down. The difference being that she can be done with her consequence 9 short months later.

Utter horse crap right back atcha sport.  There are few things more vile than turning women into baby-machines against their will. I thought that was limited to the likes of ISIS, but apparently not. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:51:58 am
And until that birth takes place, you have stripped an unwilling woman of her humanity and turned her into an incubator gestating someone else’s kid. 

You don’t have any respect for those women; you see them only as things, to be used and controlled for someone else’s desires and goals.

So now the baby can be aborted up to birth? Wow, you devolved quickly.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 12, 2018, 12:52:28 am
And there you have it!!!!!.....that's exactly what it is.....I think I am done with this thread...Those proclaiming to be conservatives and support abortion are fooling themselves..you are NOT a conservative.

Again, no one supports abortion.  I personally have written near volumes on how we on the pro-life side have made a dreadful mistake by focusing on the government to end the legality of abortion instead of focusing on the individual souls involved.  We've been vocal, we have stood and quoted Scripture, bumper stickers; we have advised women how to behave---with little room for error and less room for compassion.  We have spent decades of political capital.  And still 50 million babies slipped through our fingers since 1973.  And it makes us heartsick.

I have long pleaded that we come up with a Plan B to actually affect change and render abortion unnecessary and obsolete---regardless of what the law says.

But this is not what the discussion is about.  And this discussion is not about the immorality of 50 millions babies never seeing the light of day. It's not even about how to come up with a Plan B.

This is a discussion on whether or not we are the Constitutional Republic we claim to be.  As Conservatives do we, or do we not, agree that all viable life stands equal before the law?

This is a political discussion on just how deep Conservative Constitutional principles run.

@mystery-ak


Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: goodwithagun on July 12, 2018, 12:53:33 am
Offline for a while. Going to cuddle up and watch TV with hubby. Maybe we’ll have another blob of cells in nine months. :silly: :silly: :silly:
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: INVAR on July 12, 2018, 12:54:12 am
What you want to do is to force motherhood on women who otherwise do not wish to be mothers. 

Then they shouldn't have sex with a man. 

Period.

End of sentence.

If they do not want to be a mother - they should not engage in the activity that makes babies.

But if they want to play house - and have sex, then the natural consequence BY DESIGN - is pregnancy, which is a human life in the eyes of God.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:54:34 am
So now the baby can be aborted up to birth? Wow, you devolved quickly.

Nope.  But that is the necessary implication of the post to which I responded. 

If you feel compelled to simply lie about my position, notwithstanding that i restated it not too long ago, you are pretty desperate. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Oceander on July 12, 2018, 12:56:11 am
Then they shouldn't have sex with a man. 

Period.

End of sentence.

If they do not want to be a mother - they should not engage in the activity that makes babies.

But if they want to play house - and have sex, then the natural consequence BY DESIGN - is pregnancy, which is a human life in the eyes of God.

Yeah, because they don’t own their own bodies; those belong to their fathers, or husbands, or the government, but not to them. 
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Frank Cannon on July 12, 2018, 12:58:31 am
So now the baby can be aborted up to birth? Wow, you devolved quickly.

I think I read on the Daily Kos that it is legal to abort up to the 15th trimester.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 12:59:59 am
As Conservatives do we, or do we not, agree that all viable life stands equal before the law?

@mystery-ak

That hook is disgusting. God, that such evil exists among men.
I am done with this crap.
Myst was right. This is not Conservatism.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 01:01:47 am
Offline for a while. Going to cuddle up and watch TV with hubby. Maybe we’ll have another blob of cells in nine months. :silly: :silly: :silly:

GWAG, You ROCK!
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 12, 2018, 01:21:36 am
That hook is disgusting. God, that such evil exists among men.
I am done with this crap.
Myst was right. This is not Conservatism.

It's not a hook @roamer_1 it's a legal red line in a woman's pregnancy.

While I understand your religious roots regarding this, and I DO, we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Theocracy.

This means we have the responsibility to do more than argue.  We have the responsibility as citizens and as Christians to directly help save even one life.  Gotta get out there and make a tangible difference.   

How many times have we as conservatives proclaimed "government cannot do it for you".  This is most assuredly true here.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 01:34:36 am
And until that birth takes place, you have stripped an unwilling woman of her humanity and turned her into an incubator gestating someone else’s kid. 

You don’t have any respect for those women; you see them only as things, to be used and controlled for someone else’s desires and goals.

My only hope is that you're playing devil's advocate and don't mean a word you've said here.

Now why don't you go cut and paste this leftist propaganda someplace else?

You're not fooling anyone here.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: musiclady on July 12, 2018, 01:37:54 am
That hook is disgusting. God, that such evil exists among men.
I am done with this crap.
Myst was right. This is not Conservatism.

You're right.  There have been many fierce arguments here, but this is the first time I have literally been repulsed by the total disregard for life, for right and wrong, and for the dignity and worth of women.

Time to let this one go before I get physically ill........
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: roamer_1 on July 12, 2018, 01:59:34 am
It's not a hook @roamer_1 it's a legal red line in a woman's pregnancy.


@Right_in_Virginia
It is not. It is an arbitrary and moving magic line that ENDS the viability of a baby... As I said earlier, if the child is not viable, the abortion would not be necessary. So save me your damnable reasoning.   

Quote
While I understand your religious roots regarding this, and I DO, we are a Constitutional Republic, not a Theocracy.

In fact, my defense has not been one from religion, or we would be speaking of the horror of nearly 70m sacrificed children and the blood curse that lays on this nation. My defense is one from the Constitution, history, and common decency. So away with your fetid 'theocracy' nonsense.

Quote
This means we have the responsibility to do more than argue.  We have the responsibility as citizens and as Christians to directly help save even one life.  Gotta get out there and make a tangible difference.   


Bullshit. Government made this legal and government can damn well shut it off.  It is a moronic exercise to try to keep murder legal out of one side of your mouth and then appeal to Christian duty. *nothing* will stop it if it remains legal and defended at the federal level.

Quote
How many times have we as conservatives proclaimed "government cannot do it for you".  This is most assuredly true here.

More bullshit. As I said previously, the only exceptions to protecting the very first enumerated right to life government can sanction at ANY level are by Just Cause, or by Due Process. Otherwise, the government of this nation and every respective state and county must necessarily PROTECT LIFE. That is what this government was formed for. To protect rights as endowed by our Creator. NOBODY has the right to end that child's life.

END of Story.
Title: Re: Tomi Lahren: Conservatives Who Go After Roe “Might as Well Spit on the Constitution”
Post by: Mod1 on July 12, 2018, 02:00:17 am
And on that note, I think I'll lock this for a little while.  Enough blood has been shed for a day...