The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Topic started by: rangerrebew on October 29, 2019, 03:13:18 pm
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Written by Post-Editorial Board on Oct 29, 2019. Posted in Latest news
Californians Created Their Current Wildfire Apocalypse
california wildfireBetween the raging wildfires and the blackouts, California is now offering an abject lesson in the perils of wishful thinking. The state’s leaders may blame climate change or big utility companies, but in reality, it’s their own damn fault.
By Monday morning, Pacific Gas and Electric had broken its record for households blacked out — the company’s effort to avoid the downed live power lines that can start fires. Yet high (but not record-setting) wind gusts are still triggering wildfires, and not just in PG&E’s service area.
Why have 10 of the state’s 20 largest, most deadly fires ever occurred in the last decade? Because its forests are now twice as dense as they were 150 years ago — when the population was a fraction of today’s.
https://climatechangedispatch.com/california-wildfire-apocalypse/
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IMO the state is using the excuse provided by environmentalists to avoid proper (and expensive) forest management in order to retain the money for other priorities. Probably pension funding.
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First, NO, Skew Dork ComPost, this Californian did not! Stop painting all Californians with a warehouse broom, [Scarcasm] sanctimonious New York A-Holes [/Scarcasm]! [/b]
Second, yes California government and those who voted crazies among them into majority deserve a lot of blame. However:
* The Endangered Species Act that Enviros used to drive lumber companies and their management of their lands out of California (Can you say, "Northern Spotted Owl"?) is a Federal law;
* Many of the Enviro groups who attack PG&E in state and Federal courts incessantly ...
* ... receive $$ from people who live outside of California;
* Almost all land in the Sierras, where there have been fires, are managed by either the US Forest Service or National Park Service; much of the land on the border of LA and Ventura Counties, where there have been fires, is managed by the US National Park Service.
The amount of ignorant CRAP I've seen from MSM sources and parroted by California-Hating conservatives on this (among many other topics!) has amazed me. I expect little but ideology and ignorance from the MSM, but I expected conservative might be less blitheringly ignorant and maybe even realize that many Californians are NOT SF- and Hollyweird-grade crazies. If the shoe fits, wear it; if it doesn't, don't try it on.
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@PeteS in CA Serious question: Does the State of CA permit suing PG&E for forest fires? My understanding is, they were driven into bankruptcy protection because they got the snot sued out of them for a large, deadly fire, and that's why they shut the lights off at the drop of a hat.
I ain't gonna rag y'all because of the lousy National Government's policies. They're the ones that would rather watch the world burn before they let a timber company make a buck.
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By the way, I would like to take a moment to say something here:
It is way too easy to point and laugh at the absurdity of State that calls itself California... I have a bone to pick anyway from the Californication of the entire West...
But I want to make a distinction in that. I know all y'all that think straight are going through hell and back, with more to come. I ain't pointing and laughing at YOU. I get it, really I do... And my heartfelt sympathies go out to all y'all.
:0001: :beer: happy77
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Related information here: https://lao.ca.gov/2005/fire_protection/051205_fire_protection.htm
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By the way, I would like to take a moment to say something here:
It is way too easy to point and laugh at the absurdity of State that calls itself California... I have a bone to pick anyway from the Californication of the entire West...
But I want to make a distinction in that. I know all y'all that think straight are going through hell and back, with more to come. I ain't pointing and laughing at YOU. I get it, really I do... And my heartfelt sympathies go out to all y'all.
:0001: :beer: happy77
:beer: just for using all y'all twice in one paragraph.
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:beer: just for using all y'all twice in one paragraph.
And he ain't even from the south. He must have heard it on the radio....
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@PeteS in CA Serious question: Does the State of CA permit suing PG&E for forest fires? My understanding is, they were driven into bankruptcy protection because they got the snot sued out of them for a large, deadly fire, and that's why they shut the lights off at the drop of a hat.
I ain't gonna rag y'all because of the lousy National Government's policies. They're the ones that would rather watch the world burn before they let a timber company make a buck.
@Cyber Liberty, my understanding is that under CA law, if a fire probably was started by PG&E or SoCal Edison or etc., that utility is liable for all damage caused by that fire. My understanding is that Montana law is similar. I do not know whether PG&E (etc.) could turn around and sue the state or Feds for poor forest management, but I doubt it (or that such a case could win).
As for suing the Enviros who got courts to stop, hobble, and delay trimming back and cutting trees down to clear around power lines, well, sucks to be PG&E. There literally is - or was recently put out - a fire in an area that last year got courts to stop tree trimming that probably would have prevented this year's fire!
Near- and medium-term solutions to much of CA's fire and energy problems are "easy":
* Allow PG&E, etc., to trim back or cut down trees without Enviros and NIMBYs being able to hinder or stop it;
* Allow PG&E, etc. to upgrade existing power distribution transmission lines and add new transmission lines without hindrance;
* Build several new nuke plants (carefully placed, obviously) without hindrance;
* Build several new hydro dams with plants and upgrade existing hydro facilities without hindrance;
* Eliminate ALL subsidies of bird chopper and bird fryers, and end all mandated purchase percentages of bird-killing power;
* Build new and upgrade existing refineries without hindrance;
* Drill and frack without hindrance.
None of that is genius-grade insight, but until Enviros are crushed, NIMBYs disempowered, and state and Federal governments and courts have an infestation of sanity, none of that will happen.
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@Cyber Liberty, my understanding is that under CA law, if a fire probably was started by PG&E or SoCal Edison or etc., that utility is liable for all damage caused by that fire. My understanding is that Montana law is similar. I do not know whether PG&E (etc.) could turn around and sue the state or Feds for poor forest management, but I doubt it (or that such a case could win).
As for suing the Enviros who got courts to stop, hobble, and delay trimming back and cutting trees down to clear around power lines, well, sucks to be PG&E. There literally is - or was recently put out - a fire in an area that last year got courts to stop tree trimming that probably would have prevented this year's fire!
Near- and medium-term solutions to much of CA's fire and energy problems are "easy":
* Allow PG&E, etc., to trim back or cut down trees without Enviros and NIMBYs being able to hinder or stop it;
* Allow PG&E, etc. to upgrade existing power distribution transmission lines and add new transmission lines without hindrance;
* Build several new nuke plants (carefully placed, obviously) without hindrance;
* Build several new hydro dams with plants and upgrade existing hydro facilities without hindrance;
* Eliminate ALL subsidies of bird chopper and bird fryers, and end all mandated purchase percentages of bird-killing power;
* Build new and upgrade existing refineries without hindrance;
* Drill and frack without hindrance.
None of that is genius-grade insight, but until Enviros are crushed, NIMBYs disempowered, and state and Federal governments and courts have an infestation of sanity, none of that will happen.
goopo
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And he ain't even from the south. He must have heard it on the radio....
It ain't Southern. It's redneck.
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:beer: just for using all y'all twice in one paragraph.
"All y'all" deserves at least :beer: :beer: , not just one.
On the side, @thackney, I'm so old I can remember when your avatar wasn't a bogeyman.
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It ain't Southern. It's redneck.
Shut up you dumb Cracker! :patriot: :tongue2: :tongue2:
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My understanding is that Montana law is similar.
Well yeah, but no...
Power is mainly transmitted underground in the mountains around here... Except for high-powered transmission lines. The right of way for those lines is what you are mainly talking about, and the right of way for those lines is the responsibility of the power company.
If they have kept the right of way cleared (Which they do), and if they have maintained their towers and lines (which they do), they have fulfilled their responsibility.
There is no way they would be made responsible for high winds causing damage.
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PeteS wrote:
"...until Enviros are crushed, NIMBYs disempowered, and state and Federal governments and courts have an infestation of sanity, none of that will happen"
The federal government and federal courts may change somewhat (Mr. Trump seems to be having a lot of influence at changing the federal courts), but aside from that, in California, NONE of the rest of that is ever going to happen.
You might as well try to stop the Santa Ana winds from blowing.
The only hope for traditional-minded Californians is...
... to get outta there.
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IMO the state is using the excuse provided by environmentalists to avoid proper (and expensive) forest management in order to retain the money for other priorities. Probably pension funding.
Not pension funding. A more important thing - BUYING VOTES! BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
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Not pension funding. A more important thing - BUYING VOTES! BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
Question: If the state chose instead to use the money to purchase federal land instead, does anyone on this forum honestly believe that these fires would not have happened?
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Question: If the state chose instead to use the money to purchase federal land instead, does anyone on this forum honestly believe that these fires would not have happened?
Nope. The problem would be worse.
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Question: If the state chose instead to use the money to purchase federal land instead, does anyone on this forum honestly believe that these fires would not have happened?
Hell no. CSUC is supposed to subsidize to the utilities in order that they can clear brush around their facilities. Either the utilities are misusing the funds they're given (given the negative attention they've been receiving recently I doubt that) or the state isn't living up to their mandate.
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"All y'all" deserves at least :beer: :beer: , not just one.
On the side, @thackney, I'm so old I can remember when your avatar wasn't a bogeyman.
"All y'all"
:cool:
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Hell no. CSUC is supposed to subsidize to the utilities in order that they can clear brush around their facilities. Either the utilities are misusing the funds they're given (given the negative attention they've been receiving recently I doubt that) or the state isn't living up to their mandate.
Timber management is the bigger issue.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/07/30/californias-devastating-fires-are-man-caused-but-not-in-the-way-they-tell-us/#57817f5c70af (https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/07/30/californias-devastating-fires-are-man-caused-but-not-in-the-way-they-tell-us/#57817f5c70af)
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Timber management is the bigger issue.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/07/30/californias-devastating-fires-are-man-caused-but-not-in-the-way-they-tell-us/#57817f5c70af (https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/07/30/californias-devastating-fires-are-man-caused-but-not-in-the-way-they-tell-us/#57817f5c70af)
The northern spotted owl was used as the wedge to use the Federal Endangered Species Act to drive timber companies out of California. Those companies managed the amount of fuel in forests as a necessary part of their business activities. I'm entirely in favor of proper conservation and resource management, but that is not what the Enviros are about. The Enviros are about stopping managed use of resources and driving humans into enclaves (or letting them be killed by "nature").
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The northern spotted owl was used as the wedge to use the Federal Endangered Species Act to drive timber companies out of California. Those companies managed the amount of fuel in forests as a necessary part of their business activities. I'm entirely in favor of proper conservation and resource management, but that is not what the Enviros are about. The Enviros are about stopping managed use of resources and driving humans into enclaves (or letting them be killed by "nature").
That is my fear - the government doesn't want to solve the problem, much like Obama was happy with an anemic economy or control freak bureaucrats aren't really interested in curbing urban crime. They see it as another excuse to legislate and/or control behavior.
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The northern spotted owl was used as the wedge to use the Federal Endangered Species Act to drive timber companies out of California. Those companies managed the amount of fuel in forests as a necessary part of their business activities. I'm entirely in favor of proper conservation and resource management, but that is not what the Enviros are about. The Enviros are about stopping managed use of resources and driving humans into enclaves (or letting them be killed by "nature").
Without a doubt, the federal law is used as a hammer against businesses. But if this was only a federal law issue, it would be a nationwide issue. It would not be a specific California problem.
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You get what you vote for.
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@PeteS in CA Serious question: Does the State of CA permit suing PG&E for forest fires? My understanding is, they were driven into bankruptcy protection because they got the snot sued out of them for a large, deadly fire, and that's why they shut the lights off at the drop of a hat.
I ain't gonna rag y'all because of the lousy National Government's policies. They're the ones that would rather watch the world burn before they let a timber company make a buck.
Yes. Even the governor had a glimpse at what was coming and tried to provide some legal relief shortly after the major 2018 fire but the legislature would have none of it. They were bent on blaming PG&E and bankrupting them. It was all the big bad companies fault which gave CA's major environmental mismanagement cover. So the natural consequence is when the wind blows and it is dry the power is turned off. PG&E is going to end up being owned by the state and then the state will grant itself immunity from lawsuits when fires start.
And meanwhile the price of electricity which was already very high will skyrocket.
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Yes. Even the governor had a glimpse at what was coming and tried to provide some legal relief shortly after the major 2018 fire but the legislature would have none of it. They were bent on blaming PG&E and bankrupting them. It was all the big bad companies fault which gave CA's major environmental mismanagement cover. So the natural consequence is when the wind blows and it is dry the power is turned off. PG&E is going to end up being owned by the state and then the state will grant itself immunity from lawsuits when fires start.
And meanwhile the price of electricity which was already very high will skyrocket.
If there is any power at all distributed outside the elitists' preserves.