The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on June 14, 2017, 02:26:48 pm
-
Otto Warmbier: American student freed by North Korea back on US soil
By Cristina Corbin
Published June 13, 2017
Fox News
Cincinnati – A plane carrying Otto Warmbier, the U.S. college student arrested, tried and imprisoned in North Korea for more than a year, and who is now in a coma, landed in his hometown of Cincinnati Tuesday night and he was rushed to a hospital for urgent medical treatment.
The U.S. military flight landed at Lunken Airport at approximately 10:20pm ET and was met by an ambulance en route to the University of Cincinnati Medical Center.
A U.S. official confirmed to Fox News that Warmbier, 22, was in a coma and had been for "over a year." The official added that the North Koreans told the U.S. that Warmbier contracted botulism before slipping into a coma. However, the two U.S. doctors traveling with him have not been able to confirm that claim, the official said.
more
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/06/13/otto-warmbier-american-student-freed-by-north-korea-back-on-us-soil.html
-
I hope that our medical experts can help this young man and find out what happened to him.
-
Unbelievable. In a coma for over a year? I suspect they had to hold him long enough for evidence of the beatings to heal.
-
He remains unavailable for comment.
(One does wonder why they held him for so long after they botched him into a coma.)
-
He remains unavailable for comment.
(One does wonder why they held him for so long after they botched him into a coma.)
Waiting for his skull fracture to heal.
-
Waiting for his skull fracture to heal.
Then why didn't they just croak him? This seemed like an awfully roundabout way of doing things.
-
I hope that our medical experts can help this young man and find out what happened to him.
If he has been in a coma for a year the help part is unlikely
-
If he has been in a coma for a year the help part is unlikely
Yeah. I fear you are right
-
Then why didn't they just croak him? This seemed like an awfully roundabout way of doing things.
Why didn't they release him when it was clear he wasn't coming out of his coma?
Dunno, maybe 'died in custody' sounded worse than 'he contracted botulism, oh well'.
-
:pondering:
Anna FifieldVerified account @annafifield 57m57 minutes ago
If you're just waking up: Dennis Rodman gave a copy of Donald Trump's The Art of the Deal as a gift for Kim Jong Un
(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/875286682244980736/7PkqvF9E?format=jpg&name=600x314)
-
If he has been in a coma for a year the help part is unlikely
I read one report that indicated he was semi-conscious on the medical flight.
-
Just saw presser with Otto Warmbier's dad who said they were tired of "strategic patience" and getting no help form the previous administration including John Kerry. The current administration worked hard to get their son home.
The kid was supposedly "lured in" to a "safe" tour. He liked adventure.
-
Just saw presser with Otto Warmbier's dad who said they were tired of "strategic patience" and getting no help from the previous administration including John Kerry. The current administration worked hard to get their son home.
The kid was supposedly "lured in" to a "safe" tour. He liked adventure.
North Korea does that. The CCTV image of someone taking down the poster could even be a set up. The image quality was so bad it could have been anyone on the video.
North Korea has a long history of kidnapping people. From movie stars to english teachers. Heck they tried to pull me out of the back door of a coffee shop in South Korea.
-
I read one report that indicated he was semi-conscious on the medical flight.
Depends on the definition of semi-conscious. Either way it doesn't sound good if he has been in that condition for over a year
-
North Korea does that. The CCTV image of someone taking down the poster could even be a set up. The image quality was so bad it could have been anyone on the video.
North Korea has a long history of kidnapping people. From movie stars to english teachers. Heck they tried to pull me out of the back door of a coffee shop in South Korea.
You were almost kidnapped? When did this happen and why were you there in SK?
-
Depends on the definition of semi-conscious. Either way it doesn't sound good if he has been in that condition for over a year
I don't doubt for a second they beat him but I don't see how they'd keep him alive for a year. The only source for the year long coma story is the NOKOs and they are hardly a trustworthy source.
I hope he recovers but it seems hes got tough odds.
-
You were almost kidnapped? When did this happen and why were you there in SK?
I was there for the Air Force and started going downtown to coffee shops. Mostly to meet girls, real ones and not the hooker variety that were in the bars they preferred Americans go to. Lots of university students and professors would go to the coffee shops. They liked to practice their english and I liked to practice my....er Korean. This was about '91 .
-
I was there for the Air Force and started going downtown to coffee shops. Mostly to meet girls, real ones and not the hooker variety that were in the bars they preferred Americans go to. Lots of university students and professors would go to the coffee shops. They liked to practice their english and I liked to practice my....er Korean. This was about '91 .
Lucky you got away.
-
I was there for the Air Force and started going downtown to coffee shops. Mostly to meet girls, real ones and not the hooker variety that were in the bars they preferred Americans go to. Lots of university students and professors would go to the coffee shops. They liked to practice their english and I liked to practice my....er Korean. This was about '91 .
Not too many years ago over there a US service member was kidnapped, driven to a stadium full of people (there for a soccer game or something), and forced to publicly apologize because some time before a korean school kid was hit by a US military vehicle.
-
Not too many years ago over there a US service member was kidnapped, driven to a stadium full of people (there for a soccer game or something), and forced to publicly apologize because some time before a korean school kid was hit by a US military vehicle.
Yeah I could see that happening. It was crazy driving there and they do tend to hold all Americans responsible for the poor actions of a few. Kids there would hold up their hand and dash across the street. They had the right of way.
These folks knew who I was, my name, my job, my work phone number etc. I was a regular at the coffee shop.
-
North Korea does that. The CCTV image of someone taking down the poster could even be a set up. The image quality was so bad it could have been anyone on the video.
North Korea has a long history of kidnapping people. From movie stars to english teachers. Heck they tried to pull me out of the back door of a coffee shop in South Korea.
Wow...life was much easier for me in Germany, though it was a bit out of Warren Zevon's "Lawyers, Guns & Money".
I went home with a waitress
The way I always do.
How was I to know
She was with the Russians, too?
:silly:
-
I posted this on another thread but it doesn't look good for this kid.
I couldn't finish the article it made me sick.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/politics/otto-warmbier-north-korea/index.html
-
I posted this on another thread but it doesn't look good for this kid.
I couldn't finish the article it made me sick.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/15/politics/otto-warmbier-north-korea/index.html
They may have used him for experiments. Hopefully there is no biological agent involved.
-
I'm thinking it would have made a difference if Obama had tried and succeeded to get him out right away........ **nononono*
-
They may have used him for experiments. Hopefully there is no biological agent involved.
I'd bet a weeks pay he was beaten into a coma.
-
Per the article no sign of botulism- no surprise there- doctors not buying the sleeping pill story. He probably suffered hypoxia. So sorry for this young man and his family.
-
I'd bet a weeks pay he was beaten into a coma.
Me too.
-
I'm thinking it would have made a difference if Obama had tried and succeeded to get him out right away........ **nononono*
I guess Otto rated the same as the three tourists Obama refused to ask for in the infamous Iran negotiations. Not worthy of an Obama query.
-
I guess Otto rated the same as the three tourists Obama refused to ask for in the infamous Iran negotiations. Not worthy of an Obama query.
Otto isn't getting much love from the leftists. Check out reader comments on some of the more left-leaning publications reporting this story. I figure they (and Obama) decided he was a privileged frat-white boy who deserved what he got.
-
I guess Otto rated the same as the three tourists Obama refused to ask for in the infamous Iran negotiations. Not worthy of an Obama query.
Nobody matters to Barry except Barry.
-
Obama helped no one..just ask Marine Sgt. Andrew Tahmooressi or the parents of James Foley...
-
Nobody matters to Barry except Barry.
Barry and anyone who looks like he might be Barry's son.
-
Barry and anyone who looks like he might be Barry's son.
And then only if he can start a race riot.
-
Barry and anyone who looks like he might be Barry's son.
True enough.......
-
Well he did help Bowe Bergdahl ...... :pondering:
-
Well he did help Bowe Bergdahl ...... :pondering:
.....yeah....Bergdahl survived instead of being shot as he should have....but that's just the military side of me.
-
.....yeah....Bergdahl survived instead of being shot as he should have....but that's just the military side of me.
Every day that traitor draws breath is an insult to the families of the brave men who were killed looking for him. And I was never military.
-
Every day that traitor draws breath is an insult to the families of the brave men who were killed looking for him. And I was never military.
Yes, I agree with you.
However, I suspect that Bergdahl paid very dearly while in the hands of the Taliban.
-
Yes, I agree with you.
However, I suspect that Bergdahl paid very dearly while in the hands of the Taliban.
A soldier who causes his comrades to be killed through his cowardice deserves a penalty he should not have been able to come back from.
-
Moral of this story: Don't go over to hang out in a brutal regime and then commit a crime.
-
A soldier who causes his comrades to be killed through his cowardice deserves a penalty he should not have been able to come back from.
Oh, I'm not making excuses for him. When he did that I had 6 members of my immediate family over there. I despise the little POS.
-
Oh, I'm not making excuses for him. When he did that I had 6 members of my immediate family over there. I despise the little POS.
My husband and son were over there during this..different places of course but they heard all the scuttlebutt about a GI deserting...
-
If he has been in a coma for a year the help part is unlikely
Okay. But we ought to hear the medical community describe his condition, probable reason, etc.?
-
Okay. But we ought to hear the medical community describe his condition, probable reason, etc.?
They addressed both of those in the article.
-
My husband and son were over there during this..different places of course but they heard all the scuttlebutt about a GI deserting...
If there was scuttlebutt it probably saved some lives of GIs who knew better than to stick their necks out for a POS deserter.
-
Okay. But we ought to hear the medical community describe his condition, probable reason, etc.?
I hope that we get the skinny on this. It's a lot more likely now that Obama and his crew are out.
-
I'd bet a weeks pay he was beaten into a coma.
"This pattern of brain injury is usually seen as result of cardiopulmonary arrest where blood supply to brain is inadequate for a period of time, resulting in the death of brain tissue."
Doesn't mean he wasn't beaten into that, though.
-
"This pattern of brain injury is usually seen as result of cardiopulmonary arrest where blood supply to brain is inadequate for a period of time, resulting in the death of brain tissue."
It is also indicative of extreme intoxication or brain trauma.
I doubt the Norks allow their 'guests of the state' beer bashes in the slammer.
I believe this is why they kept him for over a year.
-
Wow...life was much easier for me in Germany, though it was a bit out of Warren Zevon's "Lawyers, Guns & Money".
:silly:
An innocent bystander
Somehow you got stuck
Between a rock and a hard place
And you were down on your luck, eh?
-
Moral of this story: Don't go over to hang out in a brutal regime and then commit a crime.
The norks claim of a crime should be viewed very skeptically...and his confession under duress is of no value either.
Pure commie theatre for the masses.
-
An innocent bystander
Somehow you got stuck
Between a rock and a hard place
And you were down on your luck, eh?
Unfortunatley poor Otto's dad was unable to get him 'outta this'.
-
Unfortunatley poor Otto's dad was unable to get him 'outta this'.
Yeah. Ain't like Havana or Honduras...
-
I listened to the doctor testimony today.Does the man have a feeding tube or is on life support? I'm sure this has been answered but I haven't seen it.
I will say that Rodman is an idiot (always has been).Going to this rogue country with a nutcase ruler is just about the weirdest thing I've ever heard of.
-
The norks claim of a crime should be viewed very skeptically...and his confession under duress is of no value either.
Pure commie theatre for the masses.
That's fine, but how about hanging out in a brutal regime? No American has any business being in North Korea. NONE.
-
That's fine, but how about hanging out in a brutal regime? No American has any business being in North Korea. NONE.
No argument there. One has to be seriously deluded or a true believer to "visit" a commie shithole like NK.
:beer:
-
Breaking-
He just died.
Just a headline. No news.
Mods- you might want to make this a separate story
-
Breaking-
He just died.
Just a headline. No news.
Mods- you might want to make this a separate story
Not a surprise, but it's so sad.
-
Breaking-
He just died.
Just a headline. No news.
Mods- you might want to make this a separate story
It wasn't looking good from the day he came back.
May God give his family peace. This is vile...... **nononono*
-
Not a surprise, but it's so sad.
Purportedly over a poster...a life for a poster. :shrug:
Condolences to his family and friends, at least they got to see him before he passed, for what that's worth.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/otto-warmbier-american-student-detained-north-korea-17/story?id=48140700
-
He has probably been dead for weeks, and NK simply returned the corpse complete with attached life support gear, to the US.
US position: How did you kill him?
NK position: He was alive when you got him. How did you kill him?
-
He has probably been dead for weeks, and NK simply returned the corpse complete with attached life support gear, to the US.
US position: How did you kill him?
NK position: He was alive when you got him. How did you kill him?
How Trump responds will be indicative of whether he has any idea of what his appropriate role as a leader should be.
You don't just sit back when something like this happens to a citizen of the nation you lead. He needs to make a stinking deal out of this. Use every means at his disposal to squeeze these troglodytes until they squeal.
-
NK probably recruited kids like him to use like this. Meaning they set the tour companies up and had them find pawns.
-
How Trump responds will be indicative of whether he has any idea of what his appropriate role as a leader should be.
You don't just sit back when something like this happens to a citizen of the nation you lead. He needs to make a stinking deal out of this. Use every means at his disposal to squeeze these troglodytes until they squeal.
What actions would satisfy you?
-
NK probably recruited kids like him to use like this. Meaning they set the tour companies up and had them find pawns.
Yeah, I read something like that. A company in Australia recruits these kids and takes them over there. I guess usually it goes ok.
Here is one source: The website of Young Pioneer Tours anticipates a frequently asked question about North Korea: “How safe is it?”
“Extremely safe!” the company replies, in an answer that remained on its site without qualification even after the return this week of one of its customers, Otto F. Warmbier, in a coma with what doctors described Thursday as “extensive loss of brain tissue in all regions of his brain.”
Mr. Warmbier, 22, a student at the University of Virginia, traveled to Pyongyang on a trip organized by Young Pioneer Tours in December 2015 and was imprisoned over alleged efforts to remove a propaganda sign from his hotel. For more than a year, North Korea declined diplomats’ requests to visit him. Then on Tuesday, it abruptly released him on “humanitarian grounds.”
Many questions remain about Mr. Warmbier’s precipitous decline in health, including whether he had been repeatedly beaten, as one senior American official suggested, citing recent intelligence reports, or slipped into a coma after contracting botulism and taking a sleeping pill, as North Korean diplomats asserted. It is also unclear why North Korea kept Mr. Warmbier’s condition a secret for so long and chose to release him now.
Continue reading the main story
But the case has prompted fresh scrutiny of the agencies — many of them based in China — that take foreign tourists to North Korea and calls for new restrictions on travel to the country, where three other American citizens are still being held on charges of ill-defined crimes against the authoritarian state....
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/world/asia/otto-warmbier-north-korea-travel.html
And, from the travel agents site (emphasis mine):
Welcome to Young Pioneer Tours, the first company to offer budget tours to the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
Young Pioneer Tours is an adventure travel company formed in 2008 and based in mainland China. Specialising in North Korea tours, we provide “budget travel to destinations your mother would rather you stayed away from”.
We are renowned and rated as one of the best North Korea travel operators with our unparalleled experience, fun way of doing things, and most importantly, excellent relations in country; this makes us the best choice for your visit to North Korea.
As well as seeing the must see sights in Pyongyang and visiting the DMZ, we provide tours to various locations within North Korea. So whether you’re looking to compete in the Pyongyang Marathon, experience the spectacular sights of Mt Paektu, ski at the world class Masikryong Ski resort, explore the extreme North East of the country, or visit Rason city – North Korea’s Special Economic Zone, we have itineraries to suit all travellers.
Aside from the DPRK, we travel to a number of other destinations such as Afghanistan, Iran, Turkmenistan, Chernobyl, Cuba, Antarctica, Eritrea and more! All our tours are founded on the YPT ethos of fun, thrill seeking and adventure at a great price. All ages welcomed!
http://www.youngpioneertours.com/
-
There really isn't anything the Trump administration can or should do about this, aside from registering the usual protests.
Mr. Warmbier took it upon himself to travel to a dangerous and unstable place where nearly all (if not all?) Americans are viewed with contempt and suspicion.
The treatment he received there was (of course!) unwarranted.
But travel there comes with great risks.
He chose to take the risks, and he paid a price for so doing.
RIP.
-
@ Sanguine
'Young Pioneers' rang a bell.
Young Pioneers, was a mass youth organization of the Soviet Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneer_Organization_of_the_Soviet_Union
-
The treatment he received there was (of course!) unwarranted.
But travel there comes with great risks.
He chose to take the risks, and he paid a price for so doing.
RIP.
OTOH, we could argue that the NKs managed to keep him alive and he only died once he got to the USA... what does that say?
-
Tour group is done taking Americans to North Korea.
http://theweek.com/speedreads/706964/tour-group-says-done-taking-americans-north-korea-after-death-otto-warmbier
-
OTOH, we could argue that the NKs managed to keep him alive and he only died once he got to the USA... what does that say?
Says that he was on life support until his parents gave the OK to pull the plug.
-
OTOH, we could argue that the NKs managed to keep him alive and he only died once he got to the USA... what does that say?
@GourmetDan
It says the NKs beat the crap out of him, causing brain damage and when they saw he wasn't going to recover and was in fact declining it forced them to decide if they wanted him to die there or here.
-
Says that he was on life support until his parents gave the OK to pull the plug.
Thanks mom... dad...
-
Thanks mom... dad...
Indeed thanks. I for one would not want my family to go through seeing my body on life support unendingly after I suffered severe brain damage and was in fact, dead.
-
@ Sanguine
'Young Pioneers' rang a bell.
Young Pioneers, was a mass youth organization of the Soviet Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Pioneer_Organization_of_the_Soviet_Union
Exactly!
-
OTOH, we could argue that the NKs managed to keep him alive and he only died once he got to the USA... what does that say?
That the Norks injured him to the point that recovery was not possible. What did you think it said?
-
Indeed thanks. I for one would not want my family to go through seeing my body on life support unendingly after I suffered severe brain damage and was in fact, dead.
I don't think a body can survive on life support when you are dead...
-
That the Norks injured him to the point that recovery was not possible. What did you think it said?
That he was alive until he got here... we killed him and are blaming the NKs for his death...
-
I don't think a body can survive on life support when you are dead...
You're conflating brain death with complete death.
-
I don't think a body can survive on life support when you are dead...
I believe that's why they're called "extraordinary measures."
-
I don't think a body can survive on life support when you are dead...
Many people have to make the decision to stop external life support after brain death for family members in the hospital. It has been happening for decades. My grandfather many years ago was in this condition.
-
You're conflating brain death with complete death.
Actually... I think you're the one doing that...
"List of Brain Dead Patients Who've Recovered" (http://kgov.com/brain-dead-patients-who-have-recovered)
-
:2popcorn:
-
:2popcorn:
No, I just don't have the heart for it. Or, the time or patience.
-
Many people have to make the decision to stop external life support after brain death for family members in the hospital. It has been happening for decades. My grandfather many years ago was in this condition.
Yup. A body can "survive" for years on life support after total brain death. All its doing is forcing air into the lungs, using electrical impulses to produce a heartbeat, and intravenously introducing nourishment.
For that matter you could keep a headless body "alive" like that.
-
I don't think a body can survive on life support when you are dead...
@GourmetDan
There area myriad of cases where people are brain dead but their body is kept on life support for years.
You seem to be ignoring that whatever happened to him, happened in NK.
-
No, I just don't have the heart for it. Or, the time or patience.
Indeed
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Forbidden-151987.svg/220px-Forbidden-151987.svg.png)
-
@GourmetDan
There area myriad of cases where people are brain dead but their body is kept on life support for years.
You seem to be ignoring that whatever happened to him, happened in NK.
I gave you a link for people who have been declared 'brain dead' but weren't...
-
Didn't read the Thread, Not sure if this has been posted or not.
Group Behind Otto Warmbier’s North Korea Trip Won’t Bring More Americans
by Associated Press
BEIJING — The organizers of a trip to North Korea by an American college student who died after being released from prison in a coma say they will no longer take U.S. citizens to the country.
Young Pioneer Tours said Tuesday on its Facebook page that the death of 22-year-old Otto Warmbier shows that the risk American tourists face in visiting North Korea "has become too high."
<..snip..>
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/group-behind-otto-warmbier-s-north-korea-trip-won-t-n774486 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/group-behind-otto-warmbier-s-north-korea-trip-won-t-n774486)
-
Didn't read the Thread, Not sure if this has been posted or not.
Group Behind Otto Warmbier’s North Korea Trip Won’t Bring More Americans
by Associated Press
BEIJING — The organizers of a trip to North Korea by an American college student who died after being released from prison in a coma say they will no longer take U.S. citizens to the country.
Young Pioneer Tours said Tuesday on its Facebook page that the death of 22-year-old Otto Warmbier shows that the risk American tourists face in visiting North Korea "has become too high."
<..snip..>
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/group-behind-otto-warmbier-s-north-korea-trip-won-t-n774486 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/group-behind-otto-warmbier-s-north-korea-trip-won-t-n774486)
And, of course that's why they arrested him, poster notwithstanding. He was an American.
-
Didn't read the Thread, Not sure if this has been posted or not.
Group Behind Otto Warmbier’s North Korea Trip Won’t Bring More Americans
by Associated Press
BEIJING — The organizers of a trip to North Korea by an American college student who died after being released from prison in a coma say they will no longer take U.S. citizens to the country.
Young Pioneer Tours said Tuesday on its Facebook page that the death of 22-year-old Otto Warmbier shows that the risk American tourists face in visiting North Korea "has become too high."
<..snip..>
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/group-behind-otto-warmbier-s-north-korea-trip-won-t-n774486 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/group-behind-otto-warmbier-s-north-korea-trip-won-t-n774486)
I think they were bringing Americans to provide the NKs with pawns to use.
-
The worst part of this to me...is the fact our own President told his family not to make noise about the fact he was a captive over there.
What kind of cowardly BS is that?
-
No, I just don't have the heart for it. Or, the time or patience.
Good call.
-
That he was alive until he got here... we killed him and are blaming the NKs for his death...
Seriously?
I know I'm going to regret asking this ...but why prey tell would we want to even think of doing something like that?
What's the benefit or endgame for the U.S. in killing someone we worked to get back from a Communist régime?
-
Seriously?
I know I'm going to regret asking this ...but why prey tell would we want to even think of doing something like that?
What's the benefit or endgame for the U.S. in killing someone we worked to get back from a Communist régime?
Easy... to prepare the public for more war by continuing to demonize the NKs... you're ready to attack NK, aren't you?
-
Easy... to prepare the public for more war by continuing to demonize the NKs... you're ready to attack NK, aren't you?
The Norks do a great job of demonizing themselves with their brutal communist regime they've imposed on their people for over 60 years.
I'm a soldier. I pray for peace and prepare for war.
And all we've done by coddling North Korea and removing troops from the Peninsula and standing down on the DMZ is invite them into a war that we can't win at this moment.
Is that something you want?
-
Is that something you want?
I want the globalists to stop driving nations into wars... do you think I will get it?
-
Easy... to prepare the public for more war by continuing to demonize the NKs... you're ready to attack NK, aren't you?
@GourmetDan
Whose payroll are you on? Just wondering because that is the only reason you'd be making this argument.
The atrocities committed by Kim and his father are very well documented. They've killed hundreds of thousands of their own citizens. Frequently using the most horrendous means to do it. Everything from using them as subjects for WMD experimentation, slave labor in mines, raping the women to death, running them over with a steam roller, feeding them to pigs, feeding them to cows, mortars, anti-aircraft weapons, poison, and on and on. If someone is accused of being disloyal they send/kill three generations of the family to the camps. They let children starve in the streets while Kim enjoys the finest lifestyle.
In what alternate reality is there ANY need to invent further material to demonize the NKs? What kind of drugs is it required to make that sound reasonable?
-
I want the globalists to stop driving nations into wars... do you think I will get it?
@GourmetDan
The globalists profit from war. Its the chaos which is furthering their cause. That and the use of internet trolls.
-
I want the globalists to stop driving nations into wars... do you think I will get it?
I think you'll get a thank you note from the Reynolds Aluminum company...but that's about it.
-
@GourmetDan
Whose payroll are you on? Just wondering because that is the only reason you'd be making this argument.
The atrocities committed by Kim and his father are very well documented. They've killed hundreds of thousands of their own citizens. Frequently using the most horrendous means to do it. Everything from using them as subjects for WMD experimentation, slave labor in mines, raping the women to death, running them over with a steam roller, feeding them to pigs, feeding them to cows, mortars, anti-aircraft weapons, poison, and on and on. If someone is accused of being disloyal they send/kill three generations of the family to the camps. They let children starve in the streets while Kim enjoys the finest lifestyle.
In what alternate reality is there ANY need to invent further material to demonize the NKs? What kind of drugs is it required to make that sound reasonable?
Pfffft...who can be bothered with facts when we can fantasize about the eeevil cabal of Globalists...whatever that means...who are really causing all the wars.
-
Pfffft...who can be bothered with facts when we can fantasize about the eeevil cabal of Globalists...whatever that means...who are really causing all the wars.
.
Its mind numbingly stupid to think our government engineered his release and then killed him as an excuse to start a war. Good grief the guy has nukes and has promised to use them as soon as his rockets are ready. What more reason would we need?
-
.
Its mind numbingly stupid to think our government engineered his release and then killed him as an excuse to start a war. Good grief the guy has nukes and has promised to use them as soon as his rockets are ready. What more reason would we need?
Not to mention we don't have near the force strength we'd need to execute that kind of nefarious plan. If the Norks rolled across the DMZ tomorrow...we'd be fighting the second defense of the Pusan perimeter within a week.
-
I think you'll get a thank you note from the Reynolds Aluminum company...but that's about it.
Again...
Of course, we remember that the whole sensitivity to being labeled a 'conspiracy theorist' derives from CIA use of the idea to discredit anyone who questioned the official government story of the JFK assassination.
Mass media is an amazing thing... controlled by a very small group of people and proffering the same message worldwide... must be real since everybody believes it, eh?
-
Again...
Mass media is an amazing thing... controlled by a very small group of people and proffering the same message worldwide... must be real since everybody believes it, eh?
The amazing thing...and also its kind of a sad thing too...are people who live their whole life believing that life is one giant continuous episode of The X Files.
-
The amazing thing...and also its kind of a sad thing too...are people who live their whole life believing that life is one giant continuous episode of The X Files.
It would be fine in their basements, but it's another thing entirely on a public forum........ *****rollingeyes*****
-
The amazing thing...and also its kind of a sad thing too...are people who live their whole life believing that life is one giant continuous episode of The X Files.
OTOH, what could be the sad, amazing thing is the people who live their whole life believing that the 'reality' fed by the mass media is any different than an episode of The X Files... after all... it is the same mass media proffering both messages...
-
GourmetDan where will this late-night talk radio tin-foil hat conspiracy be if we are not at war with NK within a months time? Will any of those trying to spread this nonsense be willing to publically say they were wrong - and that NK is the only ones responsible for this young mans death?
-
The amazing thing...and also its kind of a sad thing too...are people who live their whole life believing that life is one giant continuous episode of The X Files.
(http://i.imgur.com/YObihXr.jpg)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/YObihXr.jpg)
:silly:
Exactly!!
-
GourmetDan where will this late-night talk radio tin-foil hat conspiracy be if we are not at war with NK within a months time? Will any of those trying to spread this nonsense be willing to publically say they were wrong - and that NK is the only ones responsible for this young mans death?
Tell it to Muammar... who was trying to launch a gold-backed currency and whose country did not have a privately-owned central bank... until after he was dead...
-
Again...
Mass media is an amazing thing... controlled by a very small group of people and proffering the same message worldwide... must be real since everybody believes it, eh?
@GourmetDan
On the other hand I watch South Korean news on a daily basis and hear what they are saying. Its far worse then what our news or government has.
I've personally been approached by North Korean spies. I've been told by a 3 star general that the NKs might come across and if they did 75% of us would die. I've spoken to people who have exchanged fire with the NKs. I've seen first hand the efforts SK takes to keep NKs out and off their land. I've seen NK spy boats with my own eyes.
Sometimes a fool is just a fool.
-
@GourmetDan
On the other hand I watch South Korean news on a daily basis and hear what they are saying. Its far worse then what our news or government has.
As I said previously...
Mass media is an amazing thing... controlled by a very small group of people and proffering the same message worldwide... must be real since everybody believes it, eh?
I've personally been approached by North Korean spies. I've been told by a 3 star general that the NKs might come across and if they did 75% of us would die. I've spoken to people who have exchanged fire with the NKs. I've seen first hand the efforts SK takes to keep NKs out and off their land. I've seen NK spy boats with my own eyes.
You implying that warmongering can only be one-sided?
Sometimes a fool is just a fool.
And sometimes globalist warmongers are just globalist warmongers...
-
As I said previously...
You implying that warmongering can only be one-sided?
And sometimes globalist warmongers are just globalist warmongers...
So who started war before these Globalist boogeymen you've ginned up in your head?
People have ben killing each other since Kane and Abel...was there some shady Old Testament Globalist pushing them to fight each other?
What about when the Jews fought the Philistines? What money changer was backing King David in that fight?
-
So who started war before these Globalist boogeymen you've ginned up in your head?
People have ben killing each other since Kane and Abel...was there some shady Old Testament Globalist pushing them to fight each other?
What about when the Jews fought the Philistines? What money changer was backing King David in that fight?
Are you claiming that there must be an uninterrupted line of globalist warmongers back to Cain and Abel before it is possible that we are being driven into war by globalist warmongers today?
-
As I said previously...
You implying that warmongering can only be one-sided?
And sometimes globalist warmongers are just globalist warmongers...
@GourmetDan
Its not the same message, not even close.
Sometimes evil bastards are just evil bastards.
For you to defend the evil as being just propaganda makes you on the side of evil.
-
@GourmetDan
Its not the same message, not even close.
Sometimes evil bastards are just evil bastards.
For you to defend the evil as being just propaganda makes you on the side of evil.
Evil bastards... globalist warmongers... six of one... a half-dozen of the other...
-
Are you claiming that there must be an uninterrupted line of globalist warmongers back to Cain and Abel before it is possible that we are being driven into war by globalist warmongers today?
When NK invaded South Korea they made it to some of the airfields Americans had planes at. The pilots got in their planes and left.
When they returned they found the bodies of the crew chiefs and other personnel left behind wired to the tops of the hangers.
-
Evil bastards... globalist warmongers... six of one... a half-dozen of the other...
22222frying pan 22222frying pan 22222frying pan 22222frying pan 22222frying pan 22222frying pan 22222frying pan ****slapping ****slapping ****slapping ****slapping ****slapping
-
When NK invaded South Korea they made it to some of the airfields Americans had planes at. The pilots got in their planes and left.
When they returned they found the bodies of the crew chiefs and other personnel left behind wired to the tops of the hangers.
How about all those Japanese civilians fried to a crisp at Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
-
Are you claiming that there must be an uninterrupted line of globalist warmongers back to Cain and Abel before it is possible that we are being driven into war by globalist warmongers today?
Yes, humans doing evil to each other has continued uninterrupted since Adam and Eve left the garden.
-
Are you claiming that there must be an uninterrupted line of globalist warmongers back to Cain and Abel before it is possible that we are being driven into war by globalist warmongers today?
No you are. You're the one making the absurd claim that all wars are started and encouraged by eeeeeevil war mongering globalists...just trying to see how far back you think this nefarious conspiracy to keep the world in a constant state of war runs in your mind.
-
Yes, humans doing evil to each other has continued uninterrupted since Adam and Eve left the garden.
That doesn't mean that an uninterrupted line of globalist warmongers must exist back to Cain and Abel before it is possible that we are being driven into war by globalist warmongers today...
-
How about all those Japanese civilians fried to a crisp at Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
How about all those Americans that didn't die as a result of having to invade mainland Japan? Go read "With the Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge and then get back to me about those crispy Japanese.
More Japanese would have died if we had been forced to invade.
What you're saying isn't profound, its silly.
-
How about all those Americans that didn't die as a result of having to invade mainland Japan? Go read "With the Old Breed" by E.B. Sledge and then get back to me about those crispy Japanese.
More Japanese would have died if we had been forced to invade.
What you're saying isn't profound, its silly.
Actually, the Japanese had been trying to surrender under the same terms we eventually accepted... but only after we nuked a couple of their cities...
-
Actually, the Japanese had been trying to surrender under the same terms we eventually accepted... but only after we nuked a couple of their cities...
silly is as silly does
-
:threadjack: :threadjack: :threadjack: :threadjack:
-
:threadjack:
-
silly is as silly does
You're doing a noble job, @driftdiver , but facts and logic don't work against silly....
-
:threadjack: :threadjack: :threadjack: :threadjack:
:amen: :amen:
-
Actually, the Japanese had been trying to surrender under the same terms we eventually accepted... but only after we nuked a couple of their cities...
You should post a few credible sources, for that particular claim. You post, we decide.
-
You should post a few credible sources, for that particular claim. You post, we decide.
Still no sources.
-
Still no sources.
You must be patient. The talking dog he gets his information from has laryngitis today.
-
Still no sources.
I remember repeatedly asking him for sources years ago when he claimed that the globalists made the British lose the Revolutionary War because they wanted America to win.
Never got one.
I've wondered since that day what globalist power forced Cornwallis to surrender at Yorktown.
And he's never forgiven me since that day either. :shrug:
The man knows how to keep a grudge going for a veeeerrrry long time.
-
I remember repeatedly asking him for sources years ago when he claimed that the globalists made the British lose the Revolutionary War because they wanted America to win.
Never got one.
I've wondered since that day what globalist power forced Cornwallis to surrender at Yorktown.
And he's never forgiven me since that day either. :shrug:
The man knows how to keep a grudge going for a veeeerrrry long time.
Wonder if he ever opened up a history book or even watch a historical documentary... Oh never mind, what was I thinking, they were all written by globalist.
-
I remember repeatedly asking him for sources years ago when he claimed that the globalists made the British lose the Revolutionary War because they wanted America to win.
Never got one.
I've wondered since that day what globalist power forced Cornwallis to surrender at Yorktown.
And he's never forgiven me since that day either. :shrug:
The man knows how to keep a grudge going for a veeeerrrry long time.
That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a veeeerrrry long time!
-
Wonder if he ever opened up a history book or even watch a historical documentary... Oh never mind, what was I thinking, they were all written by globalist.
The very point, Navy! Everyone is wrong but him.
-
That's one of the funniest things I've heard in a veeeerrrry long time!
What's scary is that every word's the truth!
(I STILL want the source for that info! :laugh:)
-
You always have to look at media as propaganda... because that's what it is... always has been...
"One night, probably in 1880, John Swinton, then the preeminent New York journalist, was the guest of honour at a banquet given him by the leaders of his craft. Someone who knew neither the press nor Swinton offered a toast to the independent press. Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty_four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
- John Swinton (1829-1901) | managing editor, New York Times | 1880
Source: Labor's Untold Story, by Richard O. Boyer and Herbert M. Morais, published by United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America, NY, 1955/1979
-
You always have to look at media as propaganda... because that's what it is... always has been...
"One night, probably in 1880, John Swinton, then the preeminent New York journalist, was the guest of honour at a banquet given him by the leaders of his craft. Someone who knew neither the press nor Swinton offered a toast to the independent press. Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty_four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
- John Swinton (1829-1901) | managing editor, New York Times | 1880
Source: Labor's Untold Story, by Richard O. Boyer and Herbert M. Morais, published by United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America, NY, 1955/1979
Everything's a conspiracy egg. So give us some proof or are you just posting propaganda. You probably work for that rag nyt.
-
You always have to look at media as propaganda... because that's what it is... always has been...
"One night, probably in 1880, John Swinton, then the preeminent New York journalist, was the guest of honour at a banquet given him by the leaders of his craft. Someone who knew neither the press nor Swinton offered a toast to the independent press. Swinton outraged his colleagues by replying:
"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history, in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty_four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalists is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
- John Swinton (1829-1901) | managing editor, New York Times | 1880
Source: Labor's Untold Story, by Richard O. Boyer and Herbert M. Morais, published by United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America, NY, 1955/1979
Still no sources for why we shouldn't have nuked Japan.
My father almost lost 1/2 of his hand on Okinawa. After serving in WWI combat in France, my grandfather registered for the WWII draft at age 46.
Your conspiracy BS is BS.
-
Still no sources for why we shouldn't have nuked Japan.
My father almost lost 1/2 of his hand on Okinawa. After serving in WWI combat in France, my grandfather registered for the WWII draft at age 46.
Your conspiracy BS is BS.
My dad's ship the Mississippi was hit by kamikaze's off Okinawa, killing his good friend. They were not close to throwing in the towell, and next stop after repairs in Bremerton was to support landings on Japan proper. For a page or so this tin-foil hat stuff was funny reading. I'm not laughing any more.
-
It appears that the only thing we have proved is that no proof is sufficient proof for those who demand proof...
-
It appears that the only thing we have proved is that no proof is sufficient proof for those who demand proof...
No, I think you have proved that you have no proof.
-
No, I think you have proved that you have no proof.
No, I think that proves what I said...
-
No, I think you have proved that you have no proof.
He never does.
But rest assured the games will continue.... *****rollingeyes*****
-
I can't speak for all Briefers, of course, but IMHO @GourmetDan many of us have wondered for awhile what @jazzhead would seem like if he stumbled across a Vat of boiling Aluminum. Thanks for clearing that up.
-
Glad you have one less thing to wonder about...
-
With all Due Respect @GourmetDan I love all the voices here, yours and @Jazzhead included, it's what makes Myst's Forum so Dynamic, Refreshing and Interesting.
-
With all Due Respect @GourmetDan I love all the voices here, yours and @Jazzhead included, it's what makes Myst's Forum so Dynamic, Refreshing and Interesting.
I didn't mean to imply that you didn't... I truly was happy that I was able to clear that up and that you had one less thing to wonder about...
-
My dad's ship the Mississippi was hit by kamikaze's off Okinawa, killing his good friend. They were not close to throwing in the towell, and next stop after repairs in Bremerton was to support landings on Japan proper. For a page or so this tin-foil hat stuff was funny reading. I'm not laughing any more.
Most people have no idea, how serious WWII was for America. Like 16 million people in uniform. Like food, rubber, gasoline rationing, blackouts and curfews, because there was justifiable fear of attacks along the Pacific coast by the Japs.
The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon coast. There were huge nets to protect West coast harbors from invasion by Jap submarines sneaking in.
There was little sympathy for those who were interned, and no sympathy for those killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, since it seemed they would go on until millions more were killed; mostly their own civilians.
They treatment by Japan, of civilian Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Okinawans, etc. proved beyond any doubt they were among the most evil enemies the world had known.
The Japs showed no sign they were about to surrender, on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Instead they fought to the last man. That very fact cost many, many lives.
Okinawa had the most loss of American lives, of any Pacific theater battle. The greatest loss of lives, was at sea, from cowardly kamikaze attacks on allied Navy ships.
The original fanatical terrorists, the Japs.
-
Most people have no idea, how serious WWII was for America. Like 16 million people in uniform. Like food, rubber, gasoline rationing, blackouts and curfews, because there was justifiable fear of attacks along the Pacific coast by the Japs.
The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon coast. There were huge nets to protect West coast harbors from invasion by Jap submarines sneaking in....
Many don't even know that Japan invaded America. If they had not been stopped after a couple of Aleutian Islands, the foot hold would have grown up the chain to the mainland.
http://www.kuriositas.com/2012/11/the-forgotten-battle-japanese-invasion.html
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/battle-of-the-aleutian-islands
-
I'm so grateful my dad was called/drafted to Europe after VE Day. Otherwise he would have been sent to Japan. And most likely not come home.
-
Most people have no idea, how serious WWII was for America. Like 16 million people in uniform. Like food, rubber, gasoline rationing, blackouts and curfews, because there was justifiable fear of attacks along the Pacific coast by the Japs.
The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon coast.
Yep... caused a whole $500 in damages too...
-
Yep... caused a whole $500 in damages too...
Link?
-
Link?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellwood_Oil_Field
-
...The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon California coast. There were huge nets to protect West coast harbors from invasion by Jap submarines sneaking in....
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/EllwoodOilField.jpg)
-
Most people have no idea, how serious WWII was for America. Like 16 million people in uniform. Like food, rubber, gasoline rationing, blackouts and curfews, because there was justifiable fear of attacks along the Pacific coast by the Japs.
The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon coast. There were huge nets to protect West coast harbors from invasion by Jap submarines sneaking in.
There was little sympathy for those who were interned, and no sympathy for those killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, since it seemed they would go on until millions more were killed; mostly their own civilians.
They treatment by Japan, of civilian Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Okinawans, etc. proved beyond any doubt they were among the most evil enemies the world had known.
The Japs showed no sign they were about to surrender, on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Instead they fought to the last man. That very fact cost many, many lives.
Okinawa had the most loss of American lives, of any Pacific theater battle. The greatest loss of lives, was at sea, from cowardly kamikaze attacks on allied Navy ships.
The original fanatical terrorists, the Japs.
You can call them enigmatic, fanatical, insane, deluded, but I don't think cowardly is an appropriate adjective for a Kamikaze.
-
Yep... caused a whole $500 in damages too...
But it caused a lot of concern/hysteria. In fact the aftermath lead to something unexpected:
http://aoghs.org/petroleum-in-war/wwii-sub-attacks-oilfield/
Despite missing their targets, dropping into the sea, on the beach, and into nearby cliffs, the Japanese artillery shells brought dramatic results. They not only fueled West Coast invasion fears, but also soon led to the largest mass UFO sightings in U.S. history.
(http://aoghs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Sub-Attacks-Refinery-AOGHS.jpg)
-
Many don't even know that Japan invaded America. If they had not been stopped after a couple of Aleutian Islands, the foot hold would have grown up the chain to the mainland.
http://www.kuriositas.com/2012/11/the-forgotten-battle-japanese-invasion.html
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/battle-of-the-aleutian-islands
@thackney
I find it fascinating (tragically) that such a small nation with so few people created such an empire over so many and such a large land mass. They were probably outnumbered 500 to 1 and yet they were such a powerful force.
-
It's called being ruthless, my friend.
That and leaving the conquered gods alone (mostly) works every time.
-
I find it fascinating (tragically) that such a small nation with so few people created such an empire over so many and such a large land mass. They were probably outnumbered 500 to 1 and yet they were such a powerful force.
History shows it happen quite a few times.
England, Rome, etc...
-
But it caused a lot of concern/hysteria.
http://aoghs.org/petroleum-in-war/wwii-sub-attacks-oilfield/
Which is more proof for my statement that the media is used to produce a desired response regardless of reality...
-
Which is more proof for my statement that the media is used to produce a desired response regardless of reality...
Ample proof that some peoples reality is created from tinfoil
-
Ample proof that some peoples reality is created from tinfoil
Of course, we remember that the whole sensitivity to being labeled a 'conspiracy theorist' derives from CIA use of the idea to discredit anyone who questioned the official government story of the JFK assassination.
IMO, our society would be much healthier with a generous dose of skepticism toward anything 'official' from our government... any government's motivations are generally the exact opposite of a free society and its citizens...
-
And sometimes you're just a nut.
-
And sometimes you're just a nut.
It appears that the only thing we have proved is that no proof is sufficient proof for those who demand proof...
-
Which is more proof for my statement that the media is used to produce a desired response regardless of reality...
I would say it goes to showing the validity of "eye-witness" testimony that have no real knowledge, but were there...
-
What proof have you posted @GourmetDan ?
-
I would say it goes to showing the validity of "eye-witness" testimony that have no real knowledge, but were there...
I was referring to the big newspaper headline designed to cause a lot of concern/hysteria as you noted...
(http://aoghs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Ellwood-oilfield-sub-attack-AOGHS.jpg)
-
What proof have you posted @GourmetDan ?
It appears that the only thing we have proved is that no proof is sufficient proof for those who demand proof...
-
@GourmetDan
Quoting yourself making a nonsensical argument is not proof.
A headline about a foreign nation shelling the coast is not hysterical. good grief Its pretty darn important when you don't know if an invasion fleet is 25 miles offshore.
-
I was referring to the big newspaper headline designed to cause a lot of concern/hysteria as you noted...
(http://aoghs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Ellwood-oilfield-sub-attack-AOGHS.jpg)
I would say, even in hindsight of the lousy ability to hit the target, having a sub come into firing range, continue firing for 20 minutes near a large population center (Santa Barbara), and leave unchallenged is a major concern. It greatly needed to have the current level of protection stepped up.
-
@GourmetDan
Quoting yourself making a nonsensical argument is not proof.
Neither is repeating a claim after it has been demolished a valid argument.
A headline about a foreign nation shelling the coast is not hysterical. good grief Its pretty darn important when you don't know if an invasion fleet is 25 miles offshore.
I wasn't the one who said an 'attack' generating $500 in damages generated a lot of concern/hysteria... but it does show the power of media to generate the desired response in a group that blindly accepts media hype...
-
Neither is repeating a claim after it has been demolished a valid argument.
I wasn't the one who said an 'attack' generating $500 in damages generated a lot of concern/hysteria... but it does show the power of media to generate the desired response in a group that blindly accepts media hype...
The logic you're using couldn't demolish a hot fudge sundae on a hot July afternoon.
-
I would say, even in hindsight of the lousy ability to hit the target, having a sub come into firing range, continue firing for 20 minutes near a large population center (Santa Barbara), and leave unchallenged is a major concern. It greatly needed to have the current level of protection stepped up.
Whereas now we have quite the opposite... where media covers up racial and religious violence in order not to produce a much-needed protective response by society...
Again... more proof of media manipulating the facts to produce a desired response regardless of reality...
-
Whereas now we have quite the opposite... where media covers up racial and religious violence in order not to produce a much-needed protective response by society...
Again... more proof of media manipulating the facts to produce a desired response regardless of reality...
@GourmetDan
Your argument might be taken more seriously if you didn't try to discount every single event thats happened in the history of the world.
-
@GourmetDan
You're argument might be taken more seriously if you didn't try to discount every single event thats happened in the history of the world.
And yet you claiming that I "try to discount every single event thats happened in the history of the world" should be taken seriously?
-
And yet you claiming that I "try to discount every single event thats happened in the history of the world" should be taken seriously?
Round and round you go, where he'll stop nobody knows. At the very least @Jazzhead believes in something even if I think he's misguided. The only thing I can tell you believe is that the media is evil and uses propaganda therefor everything must be a lie. Therefor dead people aren't really dead or perhaps they were never real people to start with.
-
I was referring to the big newspaper headline designed to cause a lot of concern/hysteria as you noted...
(http://aoghs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Ellwood-oilfield-sub-attack-AOGHS.jpg)
Photo of "concerned and hysterical" *American fighting men, preparing nets and bouys to safeguard the harbor entrances.
* Men, not to be confused with pencil neck geek keyboard war experts, with deferment due to very bad judgment.
(http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/netsandbooms/img/pg022.jpg)
-
Round and round you go, where he'll stop nobody knows. At the very least @Jazzhead believes in something even if I think he's misguided. The only thing I can tell you believe is that the media is evil and uses propaganda therefor everything must be a lie. Therefor dead people aren't really dead or perhaps they were never real people to start with.
Now you feel enlightened enough to opine on 'the only thing you can tell I believe therefore everything must be a lie therefore dead people aren't really dead or perhaps weren't real people to start with'...
You're the one going round and round and where you'll stop nobody knows...
-
To haul this roughly back on topic:
Coroner grants request from Otto Warmbier's family NOT to perform autopsy on the student who died after being held captive in North Korea for 17 month - as US government calls for three more Americans to be freed
The Hamilton County Coroner's Office in Ohio announced the decision Tuesday
Dr Lakshmi Sammarco said Warmbier's family made the request that an autopsy would not be carried out after an external examination was completed on Otto
Earlier in the day, the State Department stepped up pressure on Pyongyang, calling for the immediate release of three Americans being held in North Korea
By Liam Quinn For Dailymail.com
An autopsy will not be performed on Otto Warmbier's body, after a coroner granted his family's request not to do so.
The Hamilton County Coroner's Office released a statement Tuesday after conferring with doctors at the Cincinnati hospital where the 22-year-old student died just days after he was returned from North Korea.
Warmbier had been held captive in the country for 17 months.
Coroner Dr Lakshmi Sammarco said in the statement the student's family stated it did not want an autopsy to be completed after an external examination.
US student Otto Warmbier (left) died on Monday at age 22, just days after his release from North Korea in a vegetative state (right) following 17 months in custody. A coroner granted his family's request on Tuesday not to conduct an autopsy
'Our deepest sympathies are with the family and friends of Mr Warmbier at this time of their tragic loss,' Sammarco said in the statement.
'No conclusions about the cause and manner of Mr Warmbier's death have been drawn at this time as there are additional medical records and imaging to review and people to interview.'
There was no immediate word from the family about why relatives opted not to perform an autopsy, which may have shed more light on the cause of the neurological injuries Warmbier suffered in North Korea.
The news was announced as the US ramped up pressure on Pyongyang to release three other Americans being held in the country.
'We want to see three other Americans who were unjustly detained brought home as soon as possible,' State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said Tuesday.
Warmbier's death came just days after he was released by the North Korean government and returned home while suffering from extensive brain damage, according to the American doctors who treated him.
More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4623418/Coroner-not-perform-autopsy-Otto-Warmbier.html
Before the Reynolds Wrap shareholder jumps on it - the Warmbier's are Jewish.
-
Now you feel enlightened enough to opine on 'the only thing you can tell I believe therefore everything must be a lie therefore dead people aren't really dead or perhaps weren't real people to start with'...
You're the one going round and round and where you'll stop nobody knows...
:thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud: :thud:
-
To haul this roughly back on topic:
Coroner grants request from Otto Warmbier's family NOT to perform autopsy on the student who died after being held captive in North Korea for 17 month - as US government calls for three more Americans to be freed
The Hamilton County Coroner's Office in Ohio announced the decision Tuesday
Dr Lakshmi Sammarco said Warmbier's family made the request that an autopsy would not be carried out after an external examination was completed on Otto
Earlier in the day, the State Department stepped up pressure on Pyongyang, calling for the immediate release of three Americans being held in North Korea
By Liam Quinn For Dailymail.com
An autopsy will not be performed on Otto Warmbier's body, after a coroner granted his family's request not to do so.
The Hamilton County Coroner's Office released a statement Tuesday after conferring with doctors at the Cincinnati hospital where the 22-year-old student died just days after he was returned from North Korea.
Warmbier had been held captive in the country for 17 months.
Coroner Dr Lakshmi Sammarco said in the statement the student's family stated it did not want an autopsy to be completed after an external examination.
US student Otto Warmbier (left) died on Monday at age 22, just days after his release from North Korea in a vegetative state (right) following 17 months in custody. A coroner granted his family's request on Tuesday not to conduct an autopsy
'Our deepest sympathies are with the family and friends of Mr Warmbier at this time of their tragic loss,' Sammarco said in the statement.
'No conclusions about the cause and manner of Mr Warmbier's death have been drawn at this time as there are additional medical records and imaging to review and people to interview.'
There was no immediate word from the family about why relatives opted not to perform an autopsy, which may have shed more light on the cause of the neurological injuries Warmbier suffered in North Korea.
The news was announced as the US ramped up pressure on Pyongyang to release three other Americans being held in the country.
'We want to see three other Americans who were unjustly detained brought home as soon as possible,' State Department spokeswoman Heather Nauert said Tuesday.
Warmbier's death came just days after he was released by the North Korean government and returned home while suffering from extensive brain damage, according to the American doctors who treated him.
More: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4623418/Coroner-not-perform-autopsy-Otto-Warmbier.html
Before the Reynolds Wrap shareholder jumps on it - the Warmbier's are Jewish.
Glad the family can be spared some pain.
-
The autopsy would not help get the other 3 out of this insane asylum.
The parents probably know the body, in a "vegetative state," was actually dead or nearly so, weeks or months ago.
-
Their call. The emotional rollercoaster they've been on can't be easy on them.
-
Their call. The emotional rollercoaster they've been on can't be easy on them.
And if they are Jewish then they wouldn't do autopsies. They freak me out and I was so relieved I can't have one even if I'm a lapsed Jew.
I know there are exceptions. Einstein comes to mind.