The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on February 05, 2020, 02:56:04 pm
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Final speeches in President Trump's Senate impeachment trial are expected to begin around 9:30 a.m. EST on Wednesday, culminating with a vote on whether to convict or acquit the president at 4 p.m.
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Where are all the "bombshells" I was warned about after McConnell's "horrible blunder" delaying the vote 5 days?
It looks to me like he has a better shot at party unity now than if he'd pushed for a vote late Friday.
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Where are all the "bombshells" I was warned about after McConnell's "horrible blunder" delaying the vote 5 days?
It looks to me like he has a better shot at party unity now than if he'd pushed for a vote late Friday.
Yup. All the people tearing Mutch apart, convinced he was in cahoots with the Dems...it was unfair.
He handled this entire thing magnificently given how slim his margin was, and the GOP Senators who don't like Trump.
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:2popcorn:
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Yup. All the people tearing Mutch apart, convinced he was in cahoots with the Dems...it was unfair.
He handled this entire thing magnificently given how slim his margin was, and the GOP Senators who don't like Trump.
Perhaps I was unfair to judge Mitch -- but the day isn't over yet -- and there are hours before the actual vote to acquit.
I am hopeful, but I still do not trust the man -- when push has come to shove he has notoriously sided with the DEMS. He has changed his tune to a degree -- not because he has become less liberal, but because of the popularity of Trump with the American people -- just my opinion.
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Perhaps I was unfair to judge Mitch -- but the day isn't over yet -- and there are hours before the actual vote to acquit.
I am hopeful, but I still do not trust the man -- when push has come to shove he has notoriously sided with the DEMS. He has changed his tune to a degree -- not because he has become less liberal, but because of the popularity of Trump with the American people -- just my opinion.
Interesting - what are you afraid he'll do at this point?
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This should limit what they can do Today:
(https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/71a2d8df-e7ec-4069-b264-9a8c7209a5eb.jpg)
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Mitch was very wary of Trump when he first got in office. But he has come around big-time. I remember this:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Friday that the last 18 months under President Trump has been the most productive time for the conservative movement in his 34 years in the Senate.
"I'm now in the 34th year in the Senate, hard to believe," McConnell said Friday morning at the Values Voter Summit in Washington. "This has been, if you want America to be a right of center nation, this last year-and-a-half has been the best year-and-a-half in my time in the Senate."
"And, the reason you should know that, is look how angry the Left is. The angrier they get, the better we are doing."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/mcconnell-last-18-months-under-trump-have-been-my-best-time-in-the-senate (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/mcconnell-last-18-months-under-trump-have-been-my-best-time-in-the-senate)
You can't really get much higher praise than that. It was McConnell telling his fellow Republicans/conservatives that they should be looking at results, and not getting all wrapped up in the rhetoric.
McConnell is the hammer that has enabled Trump to accomplish so much. What he has done in terms of ramming through conservative judges in particular is unprecedented, on multiple levels.
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Doug Jones says he will vote to convict Trump
By Jordain Carney - 02/05/20 11:01 AM EST
Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.), viewed as the most vulnerable Senate Democrat running in November, said on Wednesday that he will vote to convict President Trump on both articles of impeachment.
"After many sleepless nights, I have reluctantly concluded that the evidence is sufficient to convict the President for both abuse of power and obstruction of Congress," he said in a statement.
Jones's announcement comes hours before the Senate's votes on the two House-passed articles of impeachment: abuse of power over the delayed Ukraine aid and obstructing Congress's investigations into those actions.
Jones has insisted for weeks that he is undecided on how he would vote, telling reporters on Monday that he was "getting there" but still wanted to review notes and talk to colleagues.
more
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481610-doug-jones-says-he-will-vote-to-convict-trump
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Mildly surprising - I'm certain he was committed on abuse but this makes me think they have every dem on obstruction too. He probably figures his reelection odds are already in the toilet so nothing to lose.
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Senate GOP drives stake through talk of Trump censure
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481512-senate-gop-drives-stake-through-talk-of-trump-censure
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Doug Jones says he will vote to convict Trump
By Jordain Carney - 02/05/20 11:01 AM EST
Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.), viewed as the most vulnerable Senate Democrat running in November, said on Wednesday that he will vote to convict President Trump on both articles of impeachment.
"After many sleepless nights, I have reluctantly concluded that the evidence is sufficient to convict the President for both abuse of power and obstruction of Congress," he said in a statement.
Doug Jones' election chances have just shifted from 'slim' to 'none'.
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Mitch was very wary of Trump when he first got in office. But he has come around big-time. I remember this:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., said Friday that the last 18 months under President Trump has been the most productive time for the conservative movement in his 34 years in the Senate.
"I'm now in the 34th year in the Senate, hard to believe," McConnell said Friday morning at the Values Voter Summit in Washington. "This has been, if you want America to be a right of center nation, this last year-and-a-half has been the best year-and-a-half in my time in the Senate."
"And, the reason you should know that, is look how angry the Left is. The angrier they get, the better we are doing."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/mcconnell-last-18-months-under-trump-have-been-my-best-time-in-the-senate (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/mcconnell-last-18-months-under-trump-have-been-my-best-time-in-the-senate)
McConnell is the hammer that has enabled Trump to accomplish so much. What he has done in terms of ramming through conservative judges is unprecedented, on multiple levels.
@Maj. Bill Martin
Exactly,and let's give credit where credit is due.
Stop for a moment and consider what a difficult job it must be to bring a herd of Prima Donna under control so something positive gets done. They ALL want to take the credit for anything positive that happens,and blame someone else for anything negative that happens.
I can't even imagine why anyone would want his job.
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Booker shoots for Spartacus drama on Senate floor, ends up framing Americans as racist bigots
February 5, 2020 | Tom Tillison
With the U.S. Senate expected to acquit President Donald Trump on Wednesday on the articles of impeachment filed by House Democrats, likely in a bipartisan manner, all Democrats have left in their failed impeachment strategy are a few floor speeches.
As Sen. Cory Booker, D-N.J., took his turn, the lawmaker desperately tried to summon a little emotion, coming up just short. Booker called for unity, and then proved that he exists in an elitist bubble by denouncing the country as racist bigots.
Make Congress Great Again! @CapitolTrump
SPARTACUS GONE WILD!! @SenBooker delivers unhinged tirade while calling for unity and togetherness. Praises America for always rising to the challenge before condemning Americans for being racist bigots.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EP9nDsyW4AA3jw6?format=jpg&name=360x360)
more
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/02/05/booker-shoots-for-spartacus-drama-on-senate-floor-ends-up-framing-americans-as-racist-bigots-883433 (https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/02/05/booker-shoots-for-spartacus-drama-on-senate-floor-ends-up-framing-americans-as-racist-bigots-883433)
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@Maj. Bill Martin
Exactly,and let's give credit where credit is due.
Stop for a moment and consider what a difficult job it must be to bring a herd of Prima Donna under control so something positive gets done. They ALL want to take the credit for anything positive that happens,and blame someone else for anything negative that happens.
I can't even imagine why anyone would want his job.
Given an opposition House and rock solid opposition in the Senate, it's hard to see how McConnel could have achieved much more with his slim and squishy majority. Reid was in a similar position after 2010 but even with solid dem support accomplished very little compared to McConnell.
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Doug Jones says he will vote to convict Trump
By Jordain Carney - 02/05/20 11:01 AM EST
Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.), viewed as the most vulnerable Senate Democrat running in November, said on Wednesday that he will vote to convict President Trump on both articles of impeachment.
"After many sleepless nights, I have reluctantly concluded that the evidence is sufficient to convict the President for both abuse of power and obstruction of Congress," he said in a statement.
Jones's announcement comes hours before the Senate's votes on the two House-passed articles of impeachment: abuse of power over the delayed Ukraine aid and obstructing Congress's investigations into those actions.
Jones has insisted for weeks that he is undecided on how he would vote, telling reporters on Monday that he was "getting there" but still wanted to review notes and talk to colleagues.
more
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481610-doug-jones-says-he-will-vote-to-convict-trump
Sorry if I don't pile on the heaping overjoy some have of McConnell .... But they in part gave us Doug Jones... and I will never forget.
BTW... when Doug Jones runs for President... remember who gave him his foothold.... just makes me sick to no end.
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What is the top trending item on Twitter at this moment????
(https://i.postimg.cc/fL5H499g/Doug-Roy.jpg)
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We could of had a real constitutional conservative in office... but no... you had to run with the lies of a liberal newspaper that didn't have one shred of real evidence. Yet you rally around the SCOTUS instead of throwing him under the bus. I will never understand.
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Sorry if I don't pile on the heaping overjoy some have of McConnell .... But they in part gave us Doug Jones... and I will never forget.
BTW... when Doug Jones runs for President... remember who gave him his foothold.... just makes me sick to no end.
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What is the top trending item on Twitter at this moment????
(https://i.postimg.cc/fL5H499g/Doug-Roy.jpg)
Jones is gonna have to win reelection. Is that likely?
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Jones is gonna have to win reelection. Is that likely?
Jones knows his position is probable gone, he is playing for bigger stakes now in higher positions that will open up for his service to the cause. This is him filling out his resume.
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Jones knows his position is probable gone, he is playing for bigger stakes now in higher positions that will open up for his service to the cause. This is him filling out his resume.
Irish beta-boy O'Rourke found out how his party deals with losers of elections. If Jones loses reelection, then he'd drop out of a Presidential election before he even reached IA, like Beta.
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Romney is a slime rat bastard!
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Romney speaking now
Looks like he's voting to convict...
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Melissa Francis
@MelissaAFrancis
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1m
Oh boy! It’s Mitt’s golden opportunity for payback.
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Andrew Wilkow
@WilkowMajority
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1m
#MittRomney is going to vote to convict!
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Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
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3m
Romney: "There's no question that were their names not Biden the president would never have done what he did."
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Cheri Jacobus
@CheriJacobus
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1m
Romney -- the new "conscience" of the GOP?
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Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
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2m
.@MittRomney
: "the president is guilty of an appalling abuse of public trust."
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Romney speaking now
Looks like he's voting to convict...
Oh... he's laying the groundwork for his ""justification"" for being a traitor as we speak. Typical McCain-like RINO BS, IOW.
He should just go ahead and officially join the rats. That's where he belongs.
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John Cardillo
@johncardillo
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3m
.@MittRomney
is a disgrace. A pathetic disgrace.
He will vote to convict
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Matt Mackowiak
@MattMackowiak
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3m
I hope every county party in Utah and the @UtahGOP
censure @MittRomney
for his outrageous decision to convict Trump. Absolutely disgraceful.
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Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
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3m
Romney: "There's no question that were their names not Biden the president would never have done what he did."
It’s because their name was Biden that he HAD to do something!
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Eric Boehlert
@EricBoehlert
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3m
the vote to convict Trump in the Senate is abt to become bipartisan...
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Scott Wong
@scottwongDC
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3m
Romney: Trump is “guilty†of violating the public trust.
His phone call was “NOT Perfectâ€
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Andrew Desiderio
@AndrewDesiderio
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Romney is choking up as he begins his speech on impeachment. He calls this “the most difficult decision I have ever faced.â€
Andrew Desiderio
@AndrewDesiderio
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“The president would never have done what he did†if their last names weren’t Biden, Romney says.
Andrew Desiderio
@AndrewDesiderio
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4m
Romney says Trump committed a “flagrant assault on our electoral rights, on our national security, and our fundamental values.â€
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Did he listen and watch the same trial that I did?...
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Rachel Sutherland
@SutherlandFox
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1m
#MittRomney will vote to convict @realdonaldtrump
on both articles of impeachment, the only Republican expected to do so
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Romney speaking now
Looks like he's voting to convict...
He's going to look like a complete chump sitting out there by his lonesome...but I don't think he cares.
My guess is that Mitt doesn't really like being a Senator at all. He'd much rather have have some kind of more executive position in the cabinet, or even as an Ambassador, where he feels like he runs things. So, to the extent a new Democrat Administration would be looking for a sympathetic Republican they can name to a cabinet or other senior position in the name of "bipartisanship", Mitt is setting himself up to be at the top of the list.
And that's his angle. He doesn't care who in the GOP he ticks off because he doesn't plan on running for anything against anyway.
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Did he listen and watch the same trial that I did?...
Dems has something BIG on him or as I suspect he’s just a petty little man.
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Aaron Rupar
@atrupar
· 3m
ROMNEY: "POTUS delayed funds for an American ally at war with Russian invaders. POTUS's purpose was personal and political. Accordingly, POTUS is guilty of an appalling abuse of public trust. What he did was not perfect. No, it was a flagrant assault of our electoral rights."
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Deplorable #ToxicFemininity Gingerbot
@Reagan_Girl
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2m
Like the great @MarkSteynOnline
says, "He chose to lose." @MittRomney
is a cankered, evil loser whose jealousy and fear override all sense of patriotism and goodness. #Utah will recall him and send him packing ASAP.
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Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
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6m
BREAKING:
Mitt Romney will vote to CONVICT the President on the charge of Abuse of Power
He should be ashamed
This vote is all about his deep personal hatred for President Trump
Mitt Romney is not a Republican
RT if the people of Utah should vote to RECALL Mitt Romney NOW!
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Ari David
@AriDavidUSA
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2m
Expelled him from the .@GOP
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Tim Scott speaking now
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Gov. Mike Huckabee
@GovMikeHuckabee
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3m
Mitt buys the load of Schiff. He's still upset he choked against Obama & begged for Sec of State but was passed over by @realDonaldTrump
(thank goodness!). He makes a fine Democrat Senator for Utah. I sure miss @OrrinHatch
who was a statesman. Utah deserves better. We all do.
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I doubt Willard was choking up...he was trying not to smile as he began to speak.
His invocation of "God" in his decision was especially galling.
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MediaResearchCenter
@theMRC
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4m
BREAKING: Sen. Mitt Romney says he will vote to convict President Trump on the "abuse of power" impeachment charge, but not the "obstruction of Congress" charge.
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Ari David
@AriDavidUSA
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2m
Expelled him from the .@GOP
Can someone be expelled from GOP? I think he should not be allowed to have that R next to his name.
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I would not piss on Romney if he was on fire.
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Dems has something BIG on him or as I suspect he’s just a petty little man.
This is old news... but I am reminded of it nevertheless....
https://americaswatchtower.com/2019/10/04/mitt-romney-and-nancy-pelosi-have-ties-to-ukraine/
Mitt Romney and Nancy Pelosi have ties to Ukraine
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This is old news... but I am reminded of it nevertheless....
Yes there is that....
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Now the rats can claim a bipartisan vote... 888mouth
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Matt Mackowiak
@MattMackowiak
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3m
I hope every county party in Utah and the @UtahGOP
censure @MittRomney
for his outrageous decision to convict Trump. Absolutely disgraceful.
Mitt Romney currently sits on the Committee on Foreign Relations, the Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP), the Committee on Homeland Security & Government Affairs (HSGAC), and the Committee on Small Business & Entrepreneurship.
Remove him from all four and ban him from any future committee assignments.
And make sure he understands this is pure retaliation.
Meanwhile, the good folks in Utah should mobilize a grassroots effort demanding this bitter effers resignation; and not stop until they get it. Keep storming his offices in Utah and Washington.
Replace him with a reliable conservative.
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I'll repeat here what I have said elsewhere numerous times. IMHO Mitt Romney is a low life, self serving POS. And always has been.
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How Romney decided Trump was guilty
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/romney-impeach-trump/606127/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/02/romney-impeach-trump/606127/)
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Mitt Romney currently sits on the Committee on Foreign Relations, the Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP), the Committee on Homeland Security & Government Affairs (HSGAC), and the Committee on Small Business & Entrepreneurship.
Remove him from all four and ban him from any future committee assignments.
And make sure he understands this is pure retaliation.
I don’t care how it looks. I wish they would do that, too. We can’t trust his judgement. There is no way he believes what he just said on the floor. He has an agenda that is not in our country’s interest.
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I'll repeat here what I have said elsewhere numerous times. IMHO Mitt Romney is a low life, self serving POS. And always has been.
Now I wish I'd voted for Obama over this creep. He is way lower than Obama.
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Not surprised in the least. I'm only hoping now that Romney has made his case that others in the GOP don't follow his path. That still is a possibility here. Until he's acquitted, anything can still happen. I'm still bracing for removal.
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Now I wish I'd voted for Obama over this creep. He is way lower than Obama.
Uh... no. Hell no. I could never vote for ANY damned Democrat. But looking back (hindsight).... I do wish I had sat that one out or voted 3rd party.
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I think the absolute best way for the President and other Republicans to address this is to just ignore him. Essentially act as though he really doesn't matter at all, because ultimately, he doesn't. Going off on him will just put more microphones in front of his face, and draw even more attention to him so that he can pontificate further. But ignoring him, and pretending his vote was inconsequential...that's how you deal with a guy like him because he wants the attention.
That strategy worked beautifully for the President last night. By not mentioning impeachment, he actually diminished it and made it irrelevant. Now do the same to Romney.
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Now I wish I'd voted for Obama over this creep. He is way lower than Obama.
I wouldn’t go that far, but I’m sorry to everyone here from TOS who tried to warn me about him back then. Everything you told us was true and please accept my apology for not believing you then.
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Now I wish I'd voted for Obama over this creep. He is way lower than Obama.
He is an exact copy of his father who was equally worthless.
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Romney will have his 15mins of fame.....with the Dems but will be persona non grata in DC and the GOP....
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Romney will have his 15mins of fame.....with the Dems but will be persona non grata in DC and the GOP....
If Trump wins in November, Romney will be in the absolute wilderness.
If Trump doesn't, then any Dem other than Bernie or Warren likely will give him a cabinet spot as the token Republican.
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Mitt Romney currently sits on the Committee on Foreign Relations, the Committee on Health, Education, Labor & Pensions (HELP), the Committee on Homeland Security & Government Affairs (HSGAC), and the Committee on Small Business & Entrepreneurship.
Remove him from all four and ban him from any future committee assignments.
And make sure he understands this is pure retaliation.
Meanwhile, the good folks in Utah should mobilize a grassroots effort demanding this bitter effers resignation; and not stop until they get it. Keep storming his offices in Utah and Washington.
Replace him with a reliable conservative.
Who has the ability to ban him?? Mitch? If so, not going to happen.
Unfortunately, the good folks of Utah love him, otherwise he wouldn't be in the seat that he's in. He is a Mormon and a member of the LDS church -- they aren't going to turn their back on him.
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Romney will have his 15mins of fame.....with the Dems but will be persona non grata in DC and the GOP....
Romney had better be able to make due with all the rat media love his performance will gain him.
Obviously he plans to run as the principled stalwart against the Trump legacy in 2024. That, not his religion, motivates him.
But the ground has shifted in such a way a born politician like Romney will never be able to discern, or if they do, accept. He's toast.
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Romney will have his 15mins of fame.....with the Dems but will be persona non grata in DC and the GOP....
Who thought someone could be lower than Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi? I have to reset my gutter index.
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Romney will have his 15mins of fame.....with the Dems but will be persona non grata in DC and the GOP....
It's a despicable betrayal of the party. It won't hurt Trump much but it's a stab in the back to vulnerable colleagues like Collins.
All he had to say was that conviction would have been warranted in his opinion but the decision was better left to voters.
If he was already going to convict Trump, why did he need to hear from more "witnesses"?
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It's a despicable betrayal of the party. It won't hurt Trump much but it's a stab in the back to vulnerable colleagues like Collins.
All he had to say was that conviction would have been warranted in his opinion but the decision was better left to voters.
If he was already going to convict Trump, why did he need to hear from more "witnesses"?
Good question. Too bad Chris Wallace was incapable of asking it.
Clearly 'guilty' was Romney's default position.
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Romney will have his 15mins of fame.....with the Dems but will be persona non grata in DC and the GOP....
IMO, you're all missing something here.
1) The Democrat Party is ripe for takeover.
2) Mitt Romney is looking ahead to 2024...as a Democrat in the JFK or Scoop Jackson mold.
It's all there for him....the niche.
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IMO, you're all missing something here.
1) The Democrat Party is ripe for takeover.
2) Mitt Romney is looking ahead to 2024...as a Democrat in the JFK or Scoop Jackson mold.
It's all there for him....the niche.
That could be in his head, but no way would the woke Dems ever vote for him. It would be fun to watch them humiliate him though.
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Who thought someone could be lower than Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi? I have to reset my gutter index.
Romney is on top of my S List. I'll take ANY Democrat over Romney right now.
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Mitt is signing his on political death warrant today.
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Mitt is signing his on political death warrant today.
Exactly...
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Who has the ability to ban him?? Mitch? If so, not going to happen.
Unfortunately, the good folks of Utah love him, otherwise he wouldn't be in the seat that he's in. He is a Mormon and a member of the LDS church -- they aren't going to turn their back on him.
Disagree.
They 'love' him like we 'loved' him back in the Summer of '12... the vehicle to stop the criminal Obama Administration.
The don't love him as they love President Trump and what he's accomplished and has planned for the next 4 years.
He needs to be stripped of his Committee seats immediately. Otherwise the lessons President Trump has given the GOP these past 4 years (come July) will be for naught.
FORCE him to join the Democrats...and then let's see what the Utahns do with him.
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Food for thought:
Stephen Miller Retweeted
RBe
@RBPundit
·
8m
Also, Romney is voting to convict because Mitch McConnell released him to do it.
If Mitch needed Romney's vote to acquit, Romney would have done it.
Remember, this is all theater.
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Food for thought:
It's up to the folks in Utah to rectify this situation.
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Irish beta-boy O'Rourke found out how his party deals with losers of elections. If Jones loses reelection, then he'd drop out of a Presidential election before he even reached IA, like Beta.
Doug Jones is not stupid unlike Beta. He managed to keep his gay son out of spotlight until after the election (smart)... He played up a fake support of the second amendment (I own guns and like to hunt BS).... He played the KKK card to the max and managed (with MSM help) to hide his involvement in protecting UAB college/football team from a multiple rape charge against a 14 y/o girl. Doug is a smart liberal cookie and more dangerous than most folks want to admit... He lies and denies with the best of the swamp... He is Slick Willie without the meddling wife and has the magic card of being able to claim to pull of the impossible in a southern state (without the press pointing out the help he had in doing so).
(https://i.postimg.cc/s2twrv59/Moore.jpg)
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Mitt is signing his on political death warrant today.
He's doing it to innoculate himself from being investigated for his shenanigans with the Ukraine.
If he was to be investigated the press would just say that it's retribution by Trump.
I say Trump should do it, anyway. (But he won't)
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He's doing it to innoculate himself from being investigated for his shenanigans with the Ukraine.
If he was to be investigated the press would just say that it's retribution by Trump.
I say Trump should do it, anyway. (But he won't)
Perhaps - -- the Bidens will remain unscathed as well. The only positive I see out of this who mess is Biden placed 4th in the Iowa caucus.
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It's up to the folks in Utah to rectify this situation.
That's the truth.
But Carpetbagger Mitt has a plan for that. He'll just pick up and move to another state and run for office there. That's his M.O.
He establishes a residence and soon thereafter files for office. Eventually, he leaves for "medical reasons" - i.e. - the voters get sick of him.
Look for the moving trucks again, soon, coming to take "Pierre Delecto" to a new home.
Hopefully without his dog on the roof this time.
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He's doing it to innoculate himself from being investigated for his shenanigans with the Ukraine.
If he was to be investigated the press would just say that it's retribution by Trump.
I say Trump should do it, anyway. (But he won't)
We'll see about that. In the end it may be unavoidable.
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That could be in his head, but no way would the woke Dems ever vote for him. It would be fun to watch them humiliate him though.
Looking forward to it.... can't wait. :2popcorn:
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IMO, you're all missing something here.
1) The Democrat Party is ripe for takeover.
2) Mitt Romney is looking ahead to 2024...as a Democrat in the JFK or Scoop Jackson mold.
It's all there for him....the niche.
Romney will be 77 if he runs for President in 2024 -- meaning that he'd be 81 at the end of his first term. I simply don't see it at all. Plus, I don't think Scoop Jackson Democrats are going to be more than 10% of that party anyway by then. They're not even that much of it now, and they'll be far more "progressive" by then.
I think he's angling for an appointment with a Democratic Administration as the token Republican if a Democrat wins in November.
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Trump Jr. says Romney 'should be expelled from the GOP'
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/481680-trump-jr-says-romney-should-be-expelled-from-the-gop
Ma be a little hard since his niece is the leader of the RNC :pop41:
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RNC chairwoman splits with uncle Mitt Romney: GOP stands 'with President Trump'
By Tal Axelrod - 02/05/20 03:03 PM EST
Ronna McDaniel, the chair of the Republican National Committee and Sen. Mitt Romney’s niece, split with her uncle Wednesday after he announced he would vote to convict President Trump on one article of impeachment.
“This is not the first time I have disagreed with Mitt, and I imagine it will not be the last. The bottom line is President Trump did nothing wrong, and the Republican Party is more united than ever behind him,†she tweeted.
This is not the first time I have disagreed with Mitt, and I imagine it will not be the last.
The bottom line is President Trump did nothing wrong, and the Republican Party is more united than ever behind him.
I, along with the @GOP, stand with President Trump.
— Ronna McDaniel (@GOPChairwoman) February 5, 2020
more
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481683-rnc-chairwoman-splits-with-uncle-mitt-romney-gop-stands-with-president-trump
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Romney will be 77 if he runs for President in 2024 -- meaning that he'd be 81 at the end of his first term. I simply don't see it at all. Plus, I don't think Scoop Jackson Democrats are going to be more than 10% of that party anyway by then. They're not even that much of it now, and they'll be far more "progressive" by then.
I think he's angling for an appointment with a Democratic Administration as the token Republican if a Democrat wins in November.
I don't think he has any angle, other than his hatred for Trump.
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If Romney runs again in Utah, he is NOT a sure thing, if a strong Republican faced him in a primary.
Romney, Flake, McMuffin reflect the "Pearl Clutching" branch.
Mitt Romney's father George, faced Nixon in the 1968 GOP primary season.
He took the unpopular anti-Vietnam war position.
So playing rebel is not new for this family.
Remember he is the originator of Obamacare. And also remember McCain kept Obamacare alive, as his final gift to his party.
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Disagree.
They 'love' him like we 'loved' him back in the Summer of '12... the vehicle to stop the criminal Obama Administration.
The don't love him as they love President Trump and what he's accomplished and has planned for the next 4 years.
He needs to be stripped of his Committee seats immediately. Otherwise the lessons President Trump has given the GOP these past 4 years (come July) will be for naught.
FORCE him to join the Democrats...and then let's see what the Utahns do with him.
The Ward and Stake is thicker than water. Utah would still vote for him as a Dem.
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Been watching FNC on and off this AM... I've seen Doug Jones, Mitt Romney, Chuck Schumer given either softball interviews or allowed to air full length floor speeches. Haven't seen a single defender of the president similarly allowed to speak at length. Can't take any more of the BS so off goes the TV.
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The worst vote I cast in my life (and that includes some bad ones)!
(https://i.redd.it/4sg32ub2t5f41.jpg)
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Who has the ability to ban him?? Mitch? If so, not going to happen.
Unfortunately, the good folks of Utah love him, otherwise he wouldn't be in the seat that he's in. He is a Mormon and a member of the LDS church -- they aren't going to turn their back on him.
Yes, Mitch can make the changes .... but no change will happen until after the election and the seating of the next Congress.
As for folks in Utah loving this creep ... guess again. They've started a pretty successful recall movement only to discover this is unconstitutional. Federal elected officials cannot be recalled.
They can however, be forced to resign. I'm hoping the grassroots efforts move in this direction and are unrelenting. The good people of Utah know they've been lied to and don't want this cretin messing around them until 2024.
@libertybele
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Been watching FNC on and off this AM... I've seen Doug Jones, Mitt Romney, Chuck Schumer given either softball interviews or allowed to air full length floor speeches. Haven't seen a single defender of the president similarly allowed to speak at length. Can't take any more of the BS so off goes the TV.
Welcome to the new Fox News.
Might have to switch over to OAN for anyone defending Trump.
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I wouldn’t go that far, but I’m sorry to everyone here from TOS who tried to warn me about him back then. Everything you told us was true and please accept my apology for not believing you then.
Accepted. Keep in mind he likely won't be the last creep from the GOP. You can't count on Party affiliation to stand for as much as it used to.
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Fox News Exclusive: Romney says he had to follow 'conscience' on vote to convict Trump, expects ‘enormous consequences’
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/romney-trump-chris-wallace-i-had-to-follow-my-conscience (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/romney-trump-chris-wallace-i-had-to-follow-my-conscience)
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Kyrsten Sinema will vote to impeach Trump
https://therightscoop.com/breaking-kyrsten-sinema-will-vote-to-impeach-trump/ (https://therightscoop.com/breaking-kyrsten-sinema-will-vote-to-impeach-trump/)
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Vote coming up in ten minutes.... :2popcorn:
Unfortunately voting in the Senate is different then in the House....we won't be able to see on screen how the vote is going until it is over.......unless of course they change it for this vote
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Accepted. Keep in mind he likely won't be the last creep from the GOP. You can't count on Party affiliation to stand for as much as it used to.
Agreed. I recall how Arlen Specter sold out right at the end. Ruined whatever reputation he may have had. So too with Romney. There are and will be others to one degree or another.
Me? I vote (R) with the understanding that not all (R)'s are "conservative" but all conservatives are (R).
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McConnell giving a good speech..says Pelosi has said she refuses to accept the acquittal
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Manu Raju
@mkraju
·
4m
Manchin will vote for both counts
This means that the vote will 52-48 with only Mitt Romney breaking ranks
“For the reasons above I must vote yes on the articles of impeachment,†Manchin said in statement
Manu Raju
@mkraju
·
56s
52-48 on abuse of power; 53-47 on obstruction of Congress
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MSNBC
@MSNBC
·
1m
JUST IN: West Virginia Sen. Manchin says he will vote in favor of both articles of impeachment against President Trump.
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MSNBC
@MSNBC
·
1m
JUST IN: West Virginia Sen. Manchin says he will vote in favor of both articles of impeachment against President Trump.
He is just a big tease. I'm tired of his schtick.
-
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
·
9m
"This partisan impeachment will end today," says @senatemajldr
. #ImpeachmentTrial
Steve Herman
@W7VOA
Replying to
@W7VOA
and
@senatemajldr
"Perhaps she'll tear up the verdict like she tore up the State of the Union address," says @senatemajldr
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Okay....the Senators will rise from their desks and vote guilty or not guilty....we need to keep count..lol
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He is just a big tease. I'm tired of his schtick.
Ha!...I just said the same thing to Mike sitting here....strictly down party lines...
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Leader McConnell
@senatemajldr
·
4m
Moments like this are what the Senate was made for. The Framers knew the country would need a firewall to keep partisan flames from scorching our Republic.
-
Senator Bob Dole
@SenatorDole
·
4h
.@POTUS
really hit a home run last night. In my 36+ years serving in Congress, I heard quite a few #SOTU
addresses. This was one of the best.
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Chad Pergram
@ChadPergram
·
2m
From colleague Jason Donner. Murkowski says she respects Romney’s decision. Says he should not be expelled from the GOP
-
NBC Politics
@NBCPolitics
·
5m
Sen. Romney says he will vote in favor of the article of impeachment on abuse of power against President Trump.
"I will only be one name among many...They will note merely that I was among the senators who determined that what the President did was wrong, grievously wrong."
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Washington Examiner
@dcexaminer
·
6m
"[@SpeakerPelosi
] says she refuses to accept this acquittal, whatever that means.
Perhaps she will tear up the verdict like she tore up the State of the Union address."
@senatemajldr
speaks before the Senate votes on @realDonaldTrump
's impeachment.
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Kelsey Bolar (Harkness)
@kelseybolar
·
6m
Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying she won't accept President Trump's acquittal.
“Perhaps she will tear up the verdict like she tore up the State of the Union address.â€
Dems will “attack institutions until they get their way.â€
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Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1
·
4m
Kyrsten Sinema: "Today, I vote to approve both articles, as my highest duty, and my greatest love, is to our nation's Constitution."
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Jack Posobiec
🇺🇸
@JackPosobiec
·
6m
Romney absolutely needs to be responded to or more members of the GOP will go snake on Trump, and independents will take note. This isn't a small matter, it's a sitting US Senator of Trump's party voting to remove him from office
-
Rick Wilson
@TheRickWilson
·
45m
Mitt Romney has more courage in his little finger than the rest of this cowardly claque of Profiles In Chickenshit.
-
Senator Bob Dole
@SenatorDole
·
4h
.@POTUS
really hit a home run last night. In my 36+ years serving in Congress, I heard quite a few #SOTU
addresses. This was one of the best.
:patriot:
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Gov. Mike Huckabee
@GovMikeHuckabee
·
1m
Well this may explain a lot! Maybe there ought to be an investigation. Will Mitt’s conscience force him to ask for it? Top Romney Adviser Worked With Hunter Biden On Board Of Ukrainian Energy Company
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Aaron Blake
@AaronBlake
· 1h
Thoughts:
1. Romney is signing up for months and perhaps years of vitriol for essentially a symbolic vote.
2. He won't be president in 2024, so this isn't about that.
3. There's not much upside in this for him. The easiest course would have been "wrong but not impeachable."
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Been watching FNC on and off this AM... I've seen Doug Jones, Mitt Romney, Chuck Schumer given either softball interviews or allowed to air full length floor speeches. Haven't seen a single defender of the president similarly allowed to speak at length. Can't take any more of the BS so off goes the TV.
The radio reports too. They give the rats time enough to speak for paragraphs. Then a 3 second blurb is given to the republican, if any time for response is given at all.
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Article 1
Guilty 48
Not Guilty 52
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EQCq8CtWkAAi3NB?format=jpg&name=small)
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Gov. Mike Huckabee
@GovMikeHuckabee
·
1m
Well this may explain a lot! Maybe there ought to be an investigation. Will Mitt’s conscience force him to ask for it? Top Romney Adviser Worked With Hunter Biden On Board Of Ukrainian Energy Company
Self serving BS runs in the family with the Romneys.
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Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
·
4m
Did you know:
Mitt Romney will be the only Senator in US history to vote to convict a president in his own party
He should be ashamed of himself
RT if the GOP should move to expel him from the Republican Party
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ROMNEY: POTUS is guilty of an appalling abuse of public trust. What he did was not perfect. No, it was a flagrant assault of our electoral rights."
You don't have electoral rights, dumbass. States elect Presidents - not people. Voting is a privilege, not a right.
-
Welcome to the new Fox News.
Might have to switch over to OAN for anyone defending Trump.
That'd be nice. But dunno if OAN will ever be offered in my market.
-
Jenny Beth Martin
@jennybethm
·
1h
Sen. Pierre Delecto, you are a bitter, jealous, self-absorbed man.
At the end of the day, @realDonaldTrump
will still be acquitted and exonerated without your vote.
-
Rick Wilson
@TheRickWilson
·
45m
Mitt Romney has more courage in his little finger than the rest of this cowardly claque of Profiles In Chickenshit.
Never mind that Rick. Do your Hillbilly Mountain Man impression for us again.
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Mickey White
@BiasedGirl
·
3m
If the evidence is Shit, you must acquit.
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Not guilty on second count from Mitt? He's more of a worm than I thought he was.
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Article 2
Guilty 47
Not Guilty 53
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Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
Romney: "There's no question that were their names not Biden the president would never have done what he did."
@mystery-ak
I did not watch his speech, but the above sentence is true. Think about it - if it had been, say, Thomas Jones and his son, Trevor Jones, and those are fake names, Trump would have done nothing. Because it was Biden, he wanted to stop Biden running against him or smear him so badly, few would vote for him.
The way this happened is usually told the wrong way. I did hear one person in the trial explain how it really happened which I have known for a long time. Our allies in the EU, plus our US, knew this head prosecutor was getting pay-offs and not investigating corruption cases.
We and our allies all knew this and wanted this man out. Among cases he closed without investigating was Burisma. If Biden's son had done something wrong, Biden would have wanted this investigator to stay. Once that investigator was gone, the next one could investigate Burisma. That is the truth of what happened.
-
Not even a simple majority to convict.
:yowsa:
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Christopher C. Cuomo
@ChrisCuomo
·
3m
Acquitted. Trump has not been exonerated. He has not been absolved. He is not necessarily innocent. Senators voted that burden not met. Several or more gop think trump did something wrong, even impeachable.
-
@mystery-ak
I did not watch his speech, but the above sentence is true. Think about it - if it had been, say, Thomas Jones and his son, Trevor Jones, and those are fake names, Trump would have done nothing. Because it was Biden, he wanted to stop Biden running against him or smear him so badly, few would vote for him.
The way this happened is usually told the wrong way. I did hear one person in the trial explain how it really happened which I have known for a long time. Our allies in the EU, plus our US, knew this head prosecutor was getting pay-offs and not investigating corruption cases.
We and our allies all knew this and wanted this man out. Among cases he closed without investigating was Burisma. If Biden's son had done something wrong, Biden would have wanted this investigator to stay. Once that investigator was gone, the next one could investigate Burisma. That is the truth of what happened.
Trump is acquitted - not guilty.
Move on.
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Jay Sekulow
@JaySekulow
·
2m
Acquitted.
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Kelsey Bolar (Harkness)
@kelseybolar
·
6m
Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying she won't accept President Trump's acquittal.
“Perhaps she will tear up the verdict like she tore up the State of the Union address.â€
Bitch Pelosi can add the constitution, and make it a perfect trifecta and hat trick.
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Kevin McCarthy
@GOPLeader
·
2m
Acquitted for life.
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Jason Miller
@JasonMillerinDC
·
4m
And that's it for the Impeachment Witch Hunt.
Both Articles defeated.
National Democratic Party in shambles.
@realDonaldTrump
in his best poll positioning since he's been in office.
Four. More. Years.
-
Trump is acquitted - not guilty.
Move on.
Move On Hell. These dims are due some mofo retribution X 10.
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Lee Zeldin
@RepLeeZeldin
·
4m
Happy Acquittal Day!
Article 1: NOT GUILTY
Article 2: NOT GUILTY
The President will be forever acquitted of these sham impeachment charges.
As the curtain closes on this terrible Schiff Show, let’s hope there is never a sequel produced of this corrupt, rigged, rushed hit job.
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Mark Meadows
@RepMarkMeadows
·
5m
Impeachment: Failed
âŒ
President Trump: ACQUITTED
-
ACQUITTED FOREVER!!!!!
Put that in your pipe and SMOKE IT.....Nancy!
-
Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11
·
7m
BREAKING:
The President of the United States has been acquitted on BOTH Articles of Impeachment
Democrats' 3 year impeachment obsession ends in complete failure
Donald Trump is still your president and this SHAM confirms he likely will be for four more years
-
tri22
Move On Hell. These dims are due some mofo retribution X 10.
Romney is at the top of the retribution list.
-
And now Schumer stinking up the chambers.
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Erick Erickson
@EWErickson
·
7m
Mitt Romney got 665,215 votes and 63% of the vote in Utah in 2018. Donald Trump got 515,231 and 46% of the vote in Utah in 2016.
-
Mickey White
@BiasedGirl
·
7m
Congratulations Democrats,
You wasted all the time, money and political capital on Nothing.
-
ACQUITTED FOREVER!!!!!
Put that in your pipe and SMOKE IT.....Nancy!
I sincerely hope that she (and all of the DemocRats) choke on it! :smokin:
-
Lee Zeldin
@RepLeeZeldin
·
4m
Happy Acquittal Day!
Article 1: NOT GUILTY
Article 2: NOT GUILTY
The President will be forever acquitted of these sham impeachment charges.
As the curtain closes on this terrible Schiff Show, let’s hope there is never a sequel produced of this corrupt, rigged, rushed hit job.
Things will never be the same - the rat party has shown to be fixated on political power to the exclusion of everything else, most of all the truth. The system of representative republic and fair and open elections is officially broken. IMO unless the rat party is defeated in detail in the next election, to the extent that they NEVER take a similar course again, all paths now lead only to civil unrest & chaos.
-
Erick Erickson
@EWErickson
·
8m
Mitt Romney got 665,215 votes and 63% of the vote in Utah in 2018. Donald Trump got 515,231 and 46% of the vote in Utah in 2016.
-
Senate Impeachment Trial is over....
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tri22
Romney is at the top of the retribution list.
Blanket party?... :silly:
-
Move On Hell. These dims are due some mofo retribution X 10.
I agree, I was directing that comment to our esteemed friend and fellow poster.
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@mystery-ak
I did not watch his speech, but the above sentence is true. Think about it - if it had been, say, Thomas Jones and his son, Trevor Jones, and those are fake names, Trump would have done nothing. Because it was Biden, he wanted to stop Biden running against him or smear him so badly, few would vote for him.
The way this happened is usually told the wrong way. I did hear one person in the trial explain how it really happened which I have known for a long time. Our allies in the EU, plus our US, knew this head prosecutor was getting pay-offs and not investigating corruption cases.
We and our allies all knew this and wanted this man out. Among cases he closed without investigating was Burisma. If Biden's son had done something wrong, Biden would have wanted this investigator to stay. Once that investigator was gone, the next one could investigate Burisma. That is the truth of what happened.
Bidens are corrupt and guilty and because they are DEMS they will get away with the corruption just as Clinton and Obama have.
Most importantly, Biden is NOT a threat to Trump. This is even more evidenced by his placement in the Iowa caucus. He placed 4th.
Donald John Trump has been acquitted on BOTH articles of impeachment. There will be no removal thankfully.
The left showed their sheer hatred for this President and especially for our country last night. It was a shameful display of lack of patriotism and lack of concern for the American people.
I continue to pray for the safety and welfare of this President and our country.
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I sincerely hope that she (and all of the DemocRats) choke on it! :smokin:
(1) POTUS acquittal
(2) Best SOTU address in a generation
(3) Dims fumble any political gain in an opening caucus disaster
It's been a helluva good week folks.
-
(https://media.tenor.com/images/26753dc88ab86ae57d5bc6b7e953e75f/tenor.gif)
-
(1) POTUS acquittal
(2) Best SOTU address in a generation
(3) Dims fumble any political gain in an opening caucus disaster
It's been a helluva good week folks.
Indeed!
-
(1) POTUS acquittal
(2) Best SOTU address in a generation
(3) Dims fumble any political gain in an opening caucus disaster
It's been a helluva good week folks.
Except for the news about Rush Limbaugh.
-
Except for the news about Rush Limbaugh.
Very true.
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Except for the news about Rush Limbaugh.
Yes, but you can bet he is overjoyed with being given the Medal of Freedom during the State of the Union in front of millions of viewers; what an honor! I am also sure he is overjoyed with President Trump's acquittal.
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Yes, but you can bet he is overjoyed with being given the Medal of Freedom during the State of the Union in front of millions of viewers; what an honor! I am also sure he is overjoyed with President Trump's acquittal.
I almost lost it last night when I saw that. I'm not ready for Rush to leave us. Even though I haven't listened to his show in years.
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I almost lost it last night when I saw that. I'm not ready for Rush to leave us. Even though I haven't listened to his show in years.
I don't listen to him every day, nor to his complete 3 hour broadcast. I do tune in if I'm out and about that time of day.
Prayers up for Rush!
-
I'm disappointed—not because of the result, because the Democrats made a painfully and comically weak case—but because of how nakedly partisan this whole process has become.
The Democrats voted to convict not because they thought he committed a heinous offense, but because they wanted to oust a political rival, no matter how flawed the charges were. That goes for Romney, too.
The Republicans, most of them anyway, voted to acquit not because they thought he was innocent, but because they felt obliged to protect the titular head of the party. I get the sense that very few members of either party voted on the merits of the case... other than perhaps Ted Cruz, who more than any other would have had a legit grievance against Trump for committing dirty tricks, but still voted to acquit.
To quote Johnny Cash... "and the lonely voice of youth cried, 'What is truth?'"
-
Congressman Ken Buck
@RepKenBuck
·
22m
But lest we forget, Democrats have set a dangerous precedent by pushing a baseless impeachment inquiry through the House. They’ve set the bar so low for impeachment, that any future president could be impeached under these new standards.
-
Move On Hell. These dims are due some mofo retribution X 10.
You used a word in that sentence that will reveal what this whole charade has been all about @catfish1957.
When and if the indictments start to flow, you will be hearing it a LOT on the evening news!
-
Chad Pergram
@ChadPergram
·
1m
McConnell on Romney: "I was surprised and disappointed." But does not directly answer question as to whether Romney should be removed from the Senate Republican Conference
-
GOP senators reject punishing Romney for impeachment vote
By Jordain Carney - 02/05/20 04:46 PM EST
Republican senators quickly shot down talk of punishing Sen. Mitt Romney (Utah) after the party's 2012 presidential nominee voted to convict President Trump on the first article of impeachment, abuse of power.
Romney announced shortly before the votes on the House-passed articles that he would be the only GOP senator to move to convict Trump, saying the president was "guilty of an appalling abuse of public trust."
Hs decision sparked an immediate backlash from from top Trump allies, including Donald Trump Jr., who publicly called for Romney to “be expelled" from the Republican Party.
<..snip..>
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481710-gop-senators-reject-punishing-romney-over-impeachment-vote (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/481710-gop-senators-reject-punishing-romney-over-impeachment-vote)
-
I'm disappointed—not because of the result, because the Democrats made a painfully and comically weak case—but because of how nakedly partisan this whole process has become.
The Democrats voted to convict not because they thought he committed a heinous offense, but because they wanted to oust a political rival, no matter how flawed the charges were. That goes for Romney, too.
The Republicans, most of them anyway, voted to acquit not because they thought he was innocent, but because they felt obliged to protect the titular head of the party. I get the sense that very few members of either party voted on the merits of the case... other than perhaps Ted Cruz, who more than any other would have had a legit grievance against Trump for committing dirty tricks, but still voted to acquit.
To quote Johnny Cash... "and the lonely voice of youth cried, 'What is truth?'"
The House didn't even follow the correct procedures for impeachment, nor was Trump allowed due process. Something that Cruz made very clear. Glenn Beck did excellent research on what happened in the Ukraine and the timeline doesn't even match wath the House impeached him on. Based on those two instances alone, it was obvious that the House wanted to get rid of him (they have been since day one) and any GOP who couldn't see that was either blind or has disdain for the President.
I am glad that this impeachment circus is over. Other than bringing other impeachment articles against Trump or God forbid foul play, the DEMS are out of options and the only way they are going to get rid of him is to do so at the ballot box. That in itself is questionable as they displayed a tremendous amount of corruption during the past mid terms.
-
Chad Pergram
@ChadPergram
·
1m
McConnell on Romney: "I was surprised and disappointed." But does not directly answer question as to whether Romney should be removed from the Senate Republican Conference
Romney himself does not 'identify' as a Republican. I don't know what he is, but he is expressly not a Republican. He and Jeb Bush, Kristol, and all the NeverTrumps should all get together and declare their own Party.
-
Mitt Romney blows goats.
-
@mystery-ak
I did not watch his speech, but the above sentence is true. Think about it - if it had been, say, Thomas Jones and his son, Trevor Jones, and those are fake names, Trump would have done nothing. Because it was Biden, he wanted to stop Biden running against him or smear him so badly, few would vote for him.
The way this happened is usually told the wrong way. I did hear one person in the trial explain how it really happened which I have known for a long time. Our allies in the EU, plus our US, knew this head prosecutor was getting pay-offs and not investigating corruption cases.
We and our allies all knew this and wanted this man out. Among cases he closed without investigating was Burisma. If Biden's son had done something wrong, Biden would have wanted this investigator to stay. Once that investigator was gone, the next one could investigate Burisma. That is the truth of what happened.
Stop making sence. It is not allowed. :nono:
-
Romney himself does not 'identify' as a Republican. I don't know what he is, but he is expressly not a Republican. He and Jeb Bush and all the NeverTrumps should all get together and declare their own Party.
If we ever get that opportunity (to form a new party) @240B you can bet your last dollar that Romney or Jeb will never be a part of it. I didn't vote for Romney, did you?
-
Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
·
3m
Romney: "There's no question that were their names not Biden the president would never have done what he did."
@mystery-ak
Does that mean that Joe wasn't committing treason by selling his office to a foreign power for cash under the table,Mittens?
-
Stop making sence. It is not allowed. :nono:
She's still not making any "sence." There are a lot of assumed facts in that post that are not in evidence.
Are you another who was rooting for conviction and removal?
-
I am glad that this impeachment circus is over. Other than bringing other impeachment articles against Trump or God forbid foul play, the DEMS are out of options and the only way they are going to get rid of him is to do so at the ballot box. That in itself is questionable as they displayed a tremendous amount of corruption during the past mid terms.
@libertybele
They key word is in bold above. The next impeachment attempt starts tomorrow.
-
Romney himself does not 'identify' as a Republican. I don't know what he is, but he is expressly not a Republican. He and Jeb Bush, Kristol, and all the NeverTrumps should all get together and declare their own Party.
@240B
The are all Globalists,pimping out America for personal profits and power.
-
Former press secretary for Romney Rick Gorka
"I believe Mitt Romney is motivated by bitterness and jealously that @realDonaldTrump accomplished what he has failed to do multiple times. His desire to pander to the chattering class has gotten the best of him...again.
These are the same people that hated Mitt in 2012 and they will hate him again when they are done with him. It is sad to see that Mitt has not learned the lessons from 2012. Now he has betrayed his Party and millions of voters."
https://twitter.com/Rick_Gorka/status/1225158408791261185
What is it they say about those who know him best?
-
Trump says he'll make a statement about his acquittal tomorrow
President Trump just tweeted that he'll speak from the White House tomorrow about the impeachment trial, which ended today with his acquittal.
He said he'll deliver a statement at noon ET.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-trial-02-05-20/ (https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-impeachment-trial-02-05-20/)
It’s also on the President’s twitter feed.
-
@mystery-ak
I did not watch his speech, but the above sentence is true. Think about it - if it had been, say, Thomas Jones and his son, Trevor Jones, and those are fake names, Trump would have done nothing.
@DUHHHHHH!
If it had been "Paul Private Citizen",there would have been no corruption or political crime committed.
It was BECAUSE Biden was not only a prominent political figure that Trump wanted the investigation,but because Biden was interfering with US foreign policy for purposes of personal enrichment,and funneling the money through his retarded son by making sure he had a board seat to "launder" the payoffs.
-
Romney himself does not 'identify' as a Republican. I don't know what he is, but he is expressly not a Republican. He and Jeb Bush, Kristol, and all the NeverTrumps should all get together and declare their own Party.
During his run for president he told us he was a “severe conservativeâ€. Okaaay. *****rollingeyes*****
-
Not even a simple majority to convict.
:yowsa:
Yep. But they are acting like it is close. Not even. It takes sixty seven guilty votes to remove the president. They are 19 to 20 short of a conviction.
Good. I got tired of this farce long ago.
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Will Chamberlain 🇺🇸
@willchamberlain
Amazing, when you think about it, that the two most disloyal Republican Senators in the last five years were former Republican nominees for President
It says a lot about the primary process, doesn't it?
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Will Chamberlain 🇺🇸
@willchamberlain
Amazing, when you think about it, that the two most disloyal Republican Senators in the last five years were former Republican nominees for President
It says a lot about the primary process, doesn't it?
Let's hope Republicans are never fooled again.
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Will Chamberlain 🇺🇸
@willchamberlain
Amazing, when you think about it, that the two most disloyal Republican Senators in the last five years were former Republican nominees for President
It says a lot about the primary process, doesn't it?
You speak words of gold there, @jmyrlefuller!
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Mitt Romney blows goats.
Romney has the seat until 2024, when he'll be 77
By then the Utah GOP should be able to find a better US Senator.
He has 3 0r more nice houses in desirable location. He has 100s of $millions
He has really accomplished nothing, but to distinguish himself for nothing positive.
Any time, effort, money spent on revenge towards Romney, could BETTER be deployed making the GOP more electable.
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She's still not making any "sence." There are a lot of assumed facts in that post that are not in evidence.
@Cyber Liberty
@Neverdul
Cyber, the post is a "perfect" post that is absolutely true. It is has been the truth since Trump first started after Biden. You know I research which I did at the beginning. I'll find it from someone other than me, and maybe you will believe me then.
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Romney has the seat until 2024, when he'll be 77
By then the Utah GOP should be able to find a better US Senator.
He has 3 0r more nice houses in desirable location. He has 100s of $millions
He has really accomplished nothing, but to distinguish himself for nothing positive.
Any time, effort, money spent on revenge towards Romney, could BETTER be deployed making the GOP more electable.
Good advise.
Anyway, it's a great day in the USA!
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@libertybele
They key word is in bold above. The next impeachment attempt starts tomorrow.
Perhaps. Except for Romney EVERY GOP senator voted for acquittal, so there is no reason to repeat this again UNLESS the Dems actually have proof without a reasonable doubt the he is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors, bribery or treason.
I think that the American people are weary of the DEMS continual horse and pony shows and the circus reporting by the MSM.
Now, IF Trump is re-elected and the DEMS take the Senate -- they will absolutely impeach him again.
IMHO the survival of this administration and the GOP party itself is to start indicting Biden and Clinton and others otherwise once a DEM takes office (probably in 2024) they will do everything to ensure that the GOP is never seated again. They will change the electoral process and rapidly grant voting rights and asylum to all illegals.
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CSPAN
@cspan
Q: "How long is Senator Romney going to be in the dog house?"
@senatemajldr
: "We don't have any dog houses here. The most important vote is the next vote."
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@Cyber Liberty
@Neverdul
Cyber, the post is a "perfect" post that is absolutely true. It is has been the truth since Trump first started after Biden. You know I research which I did at the beginning. I'll find it from someone other than me, and maybe you will believe me then.
If his name wasn't "Biden" he would not have taken the bribes and Trump would not have had to follow the law to prevent corruption. Far from a perfect post.
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CSPAN
@cspan
Q: "How long is Senator Romney going to be in the dog house?"
@senatemajldr
: "We don't have any dog houses here. The most important vote is the next vote."
Romney puts his dogs on top of cars.
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(http://scontent.fewr1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/85012621_10158020944319444_902846050249736192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ohc=fWkMn6K-OGEAX9Hz_rm&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-2.fna&oh=9352f450b21809f93eba0f126a56bc16&oe=5EB90DD7)
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@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
At dinner; have other sources about Burisma and Prosecutor General of Ukraine; will post within two hours.
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@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
At dinner; have other sources about Burisma and Prosecutor General of Ukraine; will post within two hours.
Oh, wait, I’ll have to cancel a late dinner at the Mayor’s estate, but I’ll be right here waiting for this breaking news when you get back.
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Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
Romney: "There's no question that were their names not Biden the president would never have done what he did."
I did not watch his speech, but the above sentence is true. Think about it - if it had been, say, Thomas Jones and his son, Trevor Jones, and those are fake names, Trump would have done nothing.
@Victoria33
Were their names not Biden, they never would have been offered the graft that they ended up taking. And were the President's name not Trump, the Democrats would never have done what they did.
Because it was Biden, he wanted to stop Biden running against him or smear him so badly, few would vote for him.
This is preposterous. Joe Biden isn't a political threat to anyone. Not to Bernie Sanders. Not to Elizabeth Warren. Not to the Indiana mayor. And especially not to any Republican. Biden has run for President twice already. Both times, he received only 1% of the Democrat vote.
The way this happened is usually told the wrong way. I did hear one person in the trial explain how it really happened which I have known for a long time. Our allies in the EU, plus our US, knew this head prosecutor was getting pay-offs and not investigating corruption cases.
We and our allies all knew this and wanted this man out.
So we replaced him with a man who previously served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office, and who later pushed for the removal of US Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch.
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@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
At dinner; have other sources about Burisma and Prosecutor General of Ukraine; will post within two hours.
Would you happen to have any sources that show President Trump committed an impeachable crime?
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Let's move on! The President has been acquitted. Done. Over with. As McConnell so accurately pointed out, the political party that lost in '16 has not been able to get over nor accept their loss. Some in here it seems can't accept his winning either.
It has become bewildering actually. The very first time that I voted was back during the Carter election. I cannot ever remember since then any President being treated so shamefully and hatefully as Donald John Trump has been treated.
A lot of what I felt during the Reagan years, I now feel with Trump; secure with his leadership. Unfortunately that feeling is muddled now and then by knowing how far the left is willing to go to destroy this man, even IF it means destroying this Republic and bringing about socialism and it seems that there are those in here who would delight in seeing him destroyed as well.
-
CSPAN
@cspan
Q: "How long is Senator Romney going to be in the dog house?"
@senatemajldr
: "We don't have any dog houses here. The most important vote is the next vote."
Well, if the Republicans openly attack Romney, then it looks like something Democrats would do: strictly vote guilt or innocence on Party lines. The GOP is wise not to attack Romney. Hell, give him more ammo, he's doing a fine job of shooting himself in the foot.
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Well, if the Republicans openly attack Romney, then it looks like something Democrats would do: strictly vote guilt or innocence on Party lines. The GOP is wise not to attack Romney. Hell, give him more ammo, he's doing a fine job of shooting himself in the foot.
I don't see how attacking him would accomplish anything anyway. He'll continue to be a thorn in their side either way. We'll just have to hope Utah voters kick him to the curb in his next primary. If he holds onto the nomination I could see it handing the seat to a dem.
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I don't see how attacking him would accomplish anything anyway. He'll continue to be a thorn in their side either way. We'll just have to hope Utah voters kick him to the curb in his next primary. If he holds onto the nomination I could see it handing the seat to a dem.
@Snarknado
I agree. Ignore him. There is nothing you can do to get the Mormons to quit supporting him,so it's a waste of time. Focus on replacing people you can replace.
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@Snarknado
I agree. Ignore him. There is nothing you can do to get the Mormons to quit supporting him,so it's a waste of time. Focus on replacing people you can replace.
Well one thing. Romney has earned the right to have the worst of assignments the GOP has to offer. Hope Turtle makes him Chairmman of the Bovine Excrement Dispostion Committee.
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Well one thing. Romney has earned the right to have the worst of assignments the GOP has to offer. Hope Turtle makes him Chairmman of the Bovine Excrement Dispostion Committee.
I don't know what Committees the Freshman is on, but he should be relegated to some backwaters for sure. Nothing he can muck up like with that ridiculous legal/moral argument he made on the Floor today.
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@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
The Burisma case in Ukraine had nothing to do with Joe Biden or his son, Hunter. The case was about Burisma Group President Mykola Zlochevskyi. Consider the rest in "quotes":
“January 19, 2017, Kyiv – Allegations that Ukraine’s General Prosecutor’s Office abuses its power and has helped an alleged criminal keep stolen assets show much more must be done to clean up this important institution if the country is to effectively combat systemic corruption and put an end to an ugly legacy of theft by public officials and other elites.â€
“The National Anti-Сorruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU) is investigating whether officials in the prosecutor’s office failed to take actions relating to criminal proceedings against Burisma Group President Mykola Zlochevskyi. The failure to act resulted in a missed opportunity to recover US$23.5 million stolen from Ukraine.â€
“Furthermore, despite overwhelming evidence suggesting criminal actions, the Prosecutors Office recently dropped its cases against Zlochevskyi and his company Burisma. The NABU continues to investigate several cases.â€
https://ti-ukraine.org/en/news/burisma-group-of-companies-are-still-under-criminal-investigation-in-ukraine-despite-case-against-mykola-zlochevskyi-was-dumped-by-the-general-prosecutor-s-office/
Viktor Mykolayovych Shokin (Ukrainian: Віктор Миколайович Шокін) is a former Prosecutor General of Ukraine. Having previously worked as an investigator for the Prosecutor General Office, he served as Prosecutor General for a year between 2015 and 2016. His appointment was controversial from the outset and he was widely considered to be a key obstacle in the fight against corruption, with accusations that he had blocked cases against allies and influential figures. He was dismissed in March 2016 after pressure from the United States, European Union and international financial institutions, as well as Ukrainian anti-corruption campaigners.
In 2012, the Ukrainian prosecutor general Viktor Pshonka began investigating Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of the natural gas company Burisma Holdings, over allegations of money laundering, tax evasion, and corruption during 2010–2012.[34][35]
In 2015, Shokin became the prosecutor general, inheriting the investigation. The Obama administration and other governments and non-governmental organizations soon became concerned that Shokin was not adequately pursuing corruption in Ukraine, was protecting the political elite, and was regarded as "an obstacle to anti-corruption efforts".[22] Among other issues, he was slow-walking the investigation into Zlochevsky and Burisma and, according to Zlochevsky's allies, using the threat of prosecution to try to solicit bribes from Mr. Zlochevsky and his team – to the extent that Obama officials were considering launching their own criminal investigation into the company for possible money laundering.[34]
While visiting Kiev in December 2015, then-U.S. Vice President Joe Biden warned Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko that, if he did not fire Shokin, the Obama administration was prepared to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees. Biden later said: "I looked at them and said, 'I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money.' [...] He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time."[36][37] Shokin was dismissed by Parliament in late March 2016.
In a sworn affidavit dated 4 September 2019,[38] for a European court, Shokin testified that "On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation."[39] Shokin wrote the affidavit in support of Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash.[40] John Herbst, the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine during the George W. Bush administration, said that Shokin's support of Firtash, who had been arrested for bribery in 2014, undercuts Shokin's claims to be motivated by transparency.[41][42]
Shokin claimed in May 2019 that he had been investigating Burisma Holdings.[30][43][44] However, Vitaly Kasko, who had been Shokin's deputy overseeing international cooperation before resigning in February 2016 citing corruption in the office, provided documents to Bloomberg News indicating that under Shokin, the investigation into Burisma had been dormant.[45][46]
The investigation into Burisma only pertained to events happening before Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, joined the board of directors of Burisma Holdings in 2014.[[/b]48] US President Donald Trump's subsequent bid to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to announce an investigation of Joe Biden in relation to Burisma led to the December 2019 impeachment of Trump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin#Failure_to_properly_investigate_Burisma_Holdings
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Well one thing. Romney has earned the right to have the worst of assignments the GOP has to offer. Hope Turtle makes him Chairmman of the Bovine Excrement Dispostion Committee.
Be careful what you wish for... Bullsh*t is what they do... :laugh:
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Biden's Ukraine Scandal Explained I Glenn Beck
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHihyFsgJGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHihyFsgJGc#)
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Biden's Ukraine Scandal Explained I Glenn Beck
Never seen that level of detail. In any case, I have always been a proponent of "Where there's smoke there's fire". Once the lid blew off, everyone knew this stank to high heaven. Funny though, no one in the MSM is blaming Slow Joe's weak IA showing on this.
But the truth is the muck is sticking to Biden. He's doomed.
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Never seen that level of detail. In any case, I have always been a proponent of "Where there's smoke there's fire". Once the lid blew off, everyone knew this stank to high heaven. Funny though, no one in the MSM is blaming Slow Joe's weak IA showing on this.
But the truth is the muck is sticking to Biden. He's doomed.
@catfish1957
I don't think it's Slow Joe they are worried about. None of them like him to start with,and they would probably push the handle to flush him downstream and get him out of the way if that is all there was to it.
It's not,though. There are also the children of Pelosi,Kerry,and at least one other prominent Dim that also had board seats and drawing big paychecks for doing nothing. In other words,laundering bribe money to their parents.
THAT is why the Dim wanted this thing shut down. Yeah,they control the media in the US,but they don't control it in other countries,and sooner or later news reports will leak over the borders,questions will be asked,and explanations will have to be given.
This is especially true if Trump is re-elected and those adult "children" are still laundering the bribe money.
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@catfish1957
This is especially true if Trump is re-elected and those adult "children" are still laundering the bribe money.
I am hoping if we can blow the lid off one, we can let this thing snowball to include the Clintons, Obamas, et. al.
They have made corruption incorporated a cottage industry
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@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
The Burisma case in Ukraine had nothing to do with Joe Biden or his son, Hunter.
@Victoria33
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
Pam Bondi argues Biden corruption concerns are legitimate
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPvMuzyVOig#)
White House lawyer: ‘No link’ between Ukraine aid, investigations
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_C2jWERwyM#)
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@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
The Burisma case in Ukraine had nothing to do with Joe Biden or his son, Hunter. The case was about Burisma Group President Mykola Zlochevskyi. Consider the rest in "quotes":
So Hunter Biden, who has no education or experience in the petrochemical industry lands a $50K a month position in this organizaiton, and you do not think Biden corruption is involved, or Slow Joe intervened?
Hmmmmmm........
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CSPAN
@cspan
Q: "How long is Senator Romney going to be in the dog house?"
@senatemajldr
: "We don't have any dog houses here. The most important vote is the next vote."
I hate to say it...but McConnell's right. Staying loyal to his caucus is what gives him the ability to rally the troops in close votes like this one.
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I hate to say it...but McConnell's right. Staying loyal to his caucus is what gives him the ability to rally the troops in close votes like this one.
I don't know... He is more and more sounding like McCain..... without the medals.
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I'm disappointed—not because of the result, because the Democrats made a painfully and comically weak case—but because of how nakedly partisan this whole process has become.
The Democrats voted to convict not because they thought he committed a heinous offense, but because they wanted to oust a political rival, no matter how flawed the charges were. That goes for Romney, too.
The Republicans, most of them anyway, voted to acquit not because they thought he was innocent, but because they felt obliged to protect the titular head of the party. I get the sense that very few members of either party voted on the merits of the case... other than perhaps Ted Cruz, who more than any other would have had a legit grievance against Trump for committing dirty tricks, but still voted to acquit.
To quote Johnny Cash... "and the lonely voice of youth cried, 'What is truth?'"
Trump narrowly escaped being removed from office and they are acting like he is some kind of hero. The vote was even more narrow than the vote to acquit Bill Clinton in 1999.
https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/ (https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/)
No president has ever been removed and they weren't starting with Trump. But it was narrow. Very.
I listened to Susan Collins interview on FOX News and I could agree with what she said.
"The call was problematic". She said many in the Senate thought so. She is hoping that the President learned something from this and he wouldn't do it again. I know that some people are going to trash her for this, but she did vote to acquit.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=susan+collins+fox+interview&&view=detail&mid=0E48291D91A35835C2640E48291D91A35835C264&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsusan%2Bcollins%2Bfox%2Binterview%26FORM%3DHDRSC3 (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=susan+collins+fox+interview&&view=detail&mid=0E48291D91A35835C2640E48291D91A35835C264&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsusan%2Bcollins%2Bfox%2Binterview%26FORM%3DHDRSC3)
I concur with Susan.
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I listened to Susan Collins interview on FOX News and I could agree with what she said.
"The call was problematic". She said many in the Senate thought so. She is hoping that the President learned something from this and he wouldn't do it again. I know that some people are going to trash her for this, but she did vote to acquit.
os%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsusan%2Bcollins%2Bfox%2Binterview%26FORM%3DHDRSC3[/url]
I concur with Susan.
Here is my $.02 on this matter.
I believe Trump et. al uncovovered the massive Biden corruption ring in Ukraine, under the guise of a petrochemical business endeavor.
Realizing the damage it was doing to both our countries, he took an approach that may have had bad optics, but was for the best interest of all parties. Honestly, if I was in the same situation, I'd done the same thing.
As an analogy, I liken this event to someone getting a Jay-walking ticket, while trying to save a toddler who had went out in the middle of the road. Yeah, you broke some rules.... But.....
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Trump narrowly escaped being removed from office and they are acting like he is some kind of hero. The vote was even more narrow than the vote to acquit Bill Clinton in 1999.
https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/ (https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/)
No president has ever been removed and they weren't starting with Trump. But it was narrow. Very.
I listened to Susan Collins interview on FOX News and I could agree with what she said.
"The call was problematic". She said many in the Senate thought so. She is hoping that the President learned something from this and he wouldn't do it again. I know that some people are going to trash her for this, but she did vote to acquit.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=susan+collins+fox+interview&&view=detail&mid=0E48291D91A35835C2640E48291D91A35835C264&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsusan%2Bcollins%2Bfox%2Binterview%26FORM%3DHDRSC3 (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=susan+collins+fox+interview&&view=detail&mid=0E48291D91A35835C2640E48291D91A35835C264&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsusan%2Bcollins%2Bfox%2Binterview%26FORM%3DHDRSC3)
I concur with Susan.
Oh, please. I have been hearing this sort of thing all day.
CIVICS LESSON:
It takes a 2/3 vote (67 votes) to remove the President.
The effort fell short, not by three votes, but by TWENTY.
Please ignore all the babble about how close this was, because the MSM wants you to walk away with the idea this was a narrow escape.
That's the PSYOP here, to make you think he barely "got away with it"--whatever "it" was.
NOT EVEN CLOSE!
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So Hunter Biden, who has no education or experience in the petrochemical industry lands a $50K a month position in this organizaiton, and you do not think Biden corruption is involved, or Slow Joe intervened?
Hmmmmmm........
It's not $50K @ month. It's $83.5K @ month.
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Trump narrowly escaped being removed from office and they are acting like he is some kind of hero. The vote was even more narrow than the vote to acquit Bill Clinton in 1999.
How is Trump's acquittal "narrower" than Clinton's 50-50 vote on obstruction?
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Trump narrowly escaped being removed from office and they are acting like he is some kind of hero. The vote was even more narrow than the vote to acquit Bill Clinton in 1999.
https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/ (https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/02/12/senate.vote/)
No president has ever been removed and they weren't starting with Trump. But it was narrow. Very.
I listened to Susan Collins interview on FOX News and I could agree with what she said.
"The call was problematic". She said many in the Senate thought so. She is hoping that the President learned something from this and he wouldn't do it again. I know that some people are going to trash her for this, but she did vote to acquit.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=susan+collins+fox+interview&&view=detail&mid=0E48291D91A35835C2640E48291D91A35835C264&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsusan%2Bcollins%2Bfox%2Binterview%26FORM%3DHDRSC3 (https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=susan+collins+fox+interview&&view=detail&mid=0E48291D91A35835C2640E48291D91A35835C264&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dsusan%2Bcollins%2Bfox%2Binterview%26FORM%3DHDRSC3)
I concur with Susan.
@Chosen Daughter
To my way of thinking, Truth is found by considering all of the available facts, not cherry picking only those fact(s) that support a particular position.
Fact 1. The obama administration had serious concerns about the bidens in ukraine as has been documented and somewhat investigated. Slow joe even bragged about getting the Ukrainian investigator fired. So this situation was known to the FBI/et al.
Fact 2. The obama administration/democratic party hired foreign countries to gather and assemble the fictitious steel document and submitted it to the FISA court as a verified document to get the Full Legal Authorization to spy on the Trump campaign and presidency.
Fact 3. The obama administration/democratic party used the steel document as a basis to allege Russia/Trump collusion and to justify the Mueller Investigation which resulted in bankrupting and imprisioning several private citizens based on unlawfully obtained fisa warrants and illegal spying.
Fact 4. Your are asserting that ANYONE that is competing during an election can commit ANY crime and the incumbent cannot investigate the crime without committing election fraud.
I think that is just and impossible leap for to make when considering ALL of the facts.
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Oh, please. I have been hearing this sort of thing all day.
CIVICS LESSON:
It takes a 2/3 vote (67 votes) to remove the President.
The effort fell short, not by three votes, but by TWENTY.
Please ignore all the babble about how close this was, because the MSM wants you to walk away with the idea this was a narrow escape.
That's the PSYOP here, to make you think he barely "got away with it"--whatever "it" was.
NOT EVEN CLOSE!
Thank you. It is maddening. And the talking heads willfully ignore and fail to inform at almost every turn.
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Oh, please. I have been hearing this sort of thing all day.
CIVICS LESSON:
It takes a 2/3 vote (67 votes) to remove the President.
The effort fell short, not by three votes, but by TWENTY.
Please ignore all the babble about how close this was, because the MSM wants you to walk away with the idea this was a narrow escape.
That's the PSYOP here, to make you think he barely "got away with it"--whatever "it" was.
NOT EVEN CLOSE!
I chalk it up to wishful thinking. @Chosen Daughter has wanted Trump out for as long as the Dems have been wanting him out. If the knowledge of the US Constitution is that poor, I wonder what else in there would come as a surprise? There's a reason today's youth aren't taught Civics anymore.
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@Victoria33
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
Pam Bondi argues Biden corruption concerns are legitimate
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPvMuzyVOig#)
White House lawyer: ‘No link’ between Ukraine aid, investigations
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_C2jWERwyM#)
Hmmm. Tough call. Whom do I believe, the former AG of Florida, or Wikipedia?
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@Chosen Daughter
Fact 2. The obama administration/democratic party hired foreign countries to gather and assemble the fictitious steel document and submitted it to the FISA court as a verified document to get the Full Legal Authorization to spy on the Trump campaign and presidency.
The Republican Party and the Democrat party hired the same American company to do background study of candidates. At some point, the Republican Party dropped that company. No foreign country was involved in this. The American company hired an investigator, Steele, who lives in the United Kingdom, to do this work because he had been an agent in Russia in past years. In those past years, Steele had also worked as an agent for the FBI and he had a good reputation for doing excellent work for the FBI.
Once he gathered information, he was concerned with what he found, so he turned it over to the FBI for them to investigate further to determine if what he found was true.
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So Hunter Biden, who has no education or experience in the petrochemical industry lands a $50K a month position in this organizaiton, and you do not think Biden corruption is involved, or Slow Joe intervened?
Hmmmmmm........
@catfish1957
I presented the facts of the Burisma case. It appears you did not read it as the Biden's were not in that case.
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@catfish1957
I presented the facts of the Burisma case. It appears you did not read it as the Biden's were not in that case.
Which case? Ukraine's? US's? Canada's? There are more than one case. Just about every first-world country knows Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. I suppose it's good to know somewhere, somebody's OK with the $83.3K per month job Hunter Biden got with no experience or actual work. I'm quite sure Ukraine is OK with it. Most Americans are not OK with it.
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How is Trump's acquittal "narrower" than Clinton's 50-50 vote on obstruction?
It's not. They are lying...
per usual.
Take note of which members here are spewing and regurgitating the lies, btw.
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It's not. They are lying...
per usual.
Take note of which members here are spewing and regurgitating the lies, btw.
I cannot fathom how it's OK for the Bidens to take exorbitant bribes, but it's Impeachable to investigate those crimes. What would have been Impeachable would have been ignoring the corruption.
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I cannot fathom how it's OK for the Bidens to take exorbitant bribes, but it's Impeachable to investigate those crimes. What would have been Impeachable would have been ignoring the corruption.
Or 'preventing' investigation into it.
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Hmmm. Tough call. Whom do I believe, the former AG of Florida, or Wikipedia?
@Cyber Liberty
I posted the timeline of the Burisma case from more than one source. The Biden's were not in that case. The former AG of Florida, tried to put them in that case - she is wrong. It was Biden who worked with our allies to get rid of the prosecutor general who would not investigate Burisma. Getting rid of that prosecutor would allow investigation of Burisma.
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More Reading Material:
What is Burisma Holdings? The story behind the scandal-tied Ukraine firm that hired Hunter Biden
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/burisma-holdings-ukraine-hunter-biden (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/burisma-holdings-ukraine-hunter-biden)
Hunter Biden’s China connections plagued by ethics questions and national security concerns
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-china-connections (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-china-connections)
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@Cyber Liberty
I posted the timeline of the Burisma case from more than one source. The Biden's were not in that case. The former AG of Florida, tried to put them in that case - she is wrong. It was Biden who worked with our allies to get rid of the prosecutor general who would not investigate Burisma. Getting rid of that prosecutor would allow investigation of Burisma.
The possibility exists I'm not buying your sources, one of which is the notorious Wikipedia. Wiki is as reliable as Snopes when it comes to anything political. But...it is human nature to cherry pick facts when making up a narrative.
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It's not. They are lying...
per usual.
Take note of which members here are spewing and regurgitating the lies, btw.
Trump needed 34 votes; he got 52, 50% more than he needed. Clinton got 16 more than he needed. If you characterize those as "narrow" what's the correct adjective for Johnson's 1-vote margin?
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@Cyber Liberty
I posted the timeline of the Burisma case from more than one source. The Biden's were not in that case. The former AG of Florida, tried to put them in that case - she is wrong. It was Biden who worked with our allies to get rid of the prosecutor general who would not investigate Burisma. Getting rid of that prosecutor would allow investigation of Burisma.
Pardon my bluntness.... but that sounds like it is backasswards and patently untrue.
The prosecutor was fired, and the investigation was dropped six months later. While the investigation was just reopened last year, it has been a slow-moving process that has turned up little. At the time Biden pushed for the firing of Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor general, Shokin had plans to question Hunter Biden.
At the time Biden pushed for the firing of Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor general, Shokin had plans to question Hunter Biden.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/24/watch-joe-biden-brag-about-bribing-ukraine-to-fire-the-prosecutor-investigating-his-sons-company/
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Pardon my bluntness.... but that sounds like it is backasswards and patently untrue.
I guess it depends on which "case" one chooses to cite. I am sure there are investigations into Ukraine and Bursima that don't involve the Bidens. Why would Poland or Germany care about connections to corrupt US politicians like Biden?
ETA: The Federalist pales as a source when compared to Wikipedia and Snopes. You'll have to do better. wink777
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Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHihyFsgJGc&feature=youtu.be#)
(https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/012/329/769/original/b5dc997374e2ce32.jpg?1571936581)
(https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/031/508/745/original/e13ccdeb29e4ee59.png?1579983008)
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I guess it depends on which "case" one chooses to cite. I am sure there are investigations into Ukraine and Bursima that don't involve the Bidens. Why would Poland or Germany care about connections to corrupt US politicians like Biden?
ETA: The Federalist pales as a source when compared to Wikipedia and Snopes. You'll have to do better. wink777
Lol!!! Yeah, who can beat Wiki?
But sneriously..... I have to ask and wonder....
why would someone (here) be so determined to push that "Bidens not involved" story?
Hmmm....
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As an analogy, I liken this event to someone getting a Jay-walking ticket, while trying to save a toddler who had went out in the middle of the road.
The only problem with your comparison is that jaywalking actually is a crime.
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The only problem with your comparison is that jaywalking actually is a crime.
But.... a crime that is rarely enforced. So a "minor" crime. And we all know how selective the rats are when it comes to enforcement.
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Lol!!! Yeah, who can beat Wiki?
But sneriously..... I have to ask and wonder....
why would someone (here) be so determined to push that "Bidens not involved" story?
Hmmm....
All I can say is some people absolutely refuse to admit that they are wrong in their assessment; professionally or personally.
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All I can say is some people absolutely refuse to admit that they are wrong in their assessment; professionally or personally.
Absolutely.
I just have to wonder at some of those "assessments".... considering that this is a Conservative forum. Some that seem to go against the Conservative stance. :shrug:
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Lol!!! Yeah, who can beat Wiki?
But sneriously..... I have to ask and wonder....
why would someone (here) be so determined to push that "Bidens not involved" story?
Hmmm....
That's an easy one - Biden's corruption fully justifies the call for investigation.
As for Wiki, it has armies of full time scrubbers to remove negative info on liberals before anyone sees it.
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That's an easy one - Biden's corruption fully justifies the call for investigation.
As for Wiki, it has armies of full time scrubbers to remove negative info on liberals before anyone sees it.
Yeah... and if you haven't noticed... many of the "Biden bragging video" have already been scrubbed from the net.
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Absolutely.
I just have to wonder at some of those "assessments".... considering that this is a Conservative forum. Some that seem to go against the Conservative stance. :shrug:
Yes, but keep in mind that they can't admit that they could be wrong, they don't see anything positive or conservative about Trump; therefore they tend to take the opposite position whether or not it is actually a liberal stance.
It is good to see differences of opinions posted and debated though.
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Yes, but keep in mind that they can't admit that they could be wrong, they don't see anything positive or conservative about Trump; therefore they tend to take the opposite position whether or not it is actually a liberal stance.
It is good to see differences of opinions posted and debated though.
Yes, it's a good thing to have "debate".
Which is why I always have to add my 'two cents'...lololol.
:beer:
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Yes, it's a good thing to have "debate".
Which is why I always have to add my 'two cents'...lololol.
:beer:
:beer: 888high58888
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Thank you. It is maddening. And the talking heads willfully ignore and fail to inform at almost every turn.
News headlines prove every day, there are a thousand ways to lie.
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Yes, it's a good thing to have "debate".
Which is why I always have to add my 'two cents'...lololol.
:beer:
I love it when I get my money's worth... wink777
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I love it when I get my money's worth... wink777
Uh... was that snark??? :silly: :silly: :silly:
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Uh... was that snark??? :silly: :silly: :silly:
I think so....I'm terrible at it. :beer:
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I think so....I'm terrible at it. :beer:
Lol! It takes years and years (decades even) of practice....hehe.
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@catfish1957
I presented the facts of the Burisma case. It appears you did not read it as the Biden's were not in that case.
No, this bs can no longer stand @Victoria33 Pam Bondi presented the facts .... not you.
Get a grip on your hate, please.
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@mystery-ak
I did not watch his speech, but the above sentence is true. Think about it - if it had been, say, Thomas Jones and his son, Trevor Jones, and those are fake names, Trump would have done nothing. Because it was Biden, he wanted to stop Biden running against him or smear him so badly, few would vote for him.
The way this happened is usually told the wrong way. I did hear one person in the trial explain how it really happened which I have known for a long time. Our allies in the EU, plus our US, knew this head prosecutor was getting pay-offs and not investigating corruption cases.
We and our allies all knew this and wanted this man out. Among cases he closed without investigating was Burisma. If Biden's son had done something wrong, Biden would have wanted this investigator to stay. Once that investigator was gone, the next one could investigate Burisma. That is the truth of what happened.
I had read it before in another article. That Shokin was corrupt himself and that it wasn't just Biden that wanted him fired. That there were other European leaders calling for him to be fired. Here is something for you.
https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/ (https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/)
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190)
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@Cyber Liberty,
Both the above sources tell the truth of the matter. Since Biden's name is attached to the US efforts to remove this corrupt prosecutor, some here refuse to accept the truth. And, again, because Biden's name is attached, some think I like Biden.
It appears useless to write the truth on this forum; minds are closed to the truth.
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I had read it before in another article. That Shokin was corrupt himself and that it wasn't just Biden that wanted him fired. That there were other European leaders calling for him to be fired.
@Chosen Daughter
The part that has been pointed out to you several times already (and which you continue to ignore) is that Shokin was replaced by a man who had earlier served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office. In other words, it wasn't that Shokin was corrupt. He just wasn't corrupt for the right people.
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Both the above sources tell the truth of the matter. Since Biden's name is attached to the US efforts to remove this corrupt prosecutor, some here refuse to accept the truth.
@Victoria33
The part that has been pointed out to you several times already (and which you continue to ignore) is that Shokin was replaced by a man who had earlier served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office. In other words, it wasn't that Shokin was corrupt. He just wasn't corrupt for the right people.
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No, this bs can no longer stand @Victoria33 Pam Bondi presented the facts .... not you.
Pam Bondi nailed it. She was quite impressive. She could be a future governor of Florida.
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@Victoria33
The part that has been pointed out to you several times already (and which you continue to ignore) is that Shokin was replaced by a man who had earlier served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office. In other words, it wasn't that Shokin was corrupt. He just wasn't corrupt for the right people.
She might be the only person I know here who seems to be able to de-ccouple the Bidens from this mess. I just decided to step away.
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@Chosen Daughter
The part that has been pointed out to you several times already (and which you continue to ignore) is that Shokin was replaced by a man who had earlier served three years in prison for embezzlement and abuse of office. In other words, it wasn't that Shokin was corrupt. He just wasn't corrupt for the right people.
Could very well be, but Shokin was corrupt. Had you read the links instead of ignoring them you would have seen.
https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/ (https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/)
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190 (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190)
So if Ukraine replaced a corrupt AG with another corrupt AG that is what they did.
BTW where is Paul Manafort?
And who are Les Parnas and Igor Fruman?
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Could very well be, but Shokin was corrupt. Had you read the links instead of ignoring them you would have seen.
I never disputed that Shokin was corrupt. I simply pointed out that he was replaced by another corrupt prosecutor. Hence Biden holds no moral high ground here for ridding Ukraine of a corrupt prosecutor because Ukraine still ended up with a corrupt prosecutor. In this case, a corrupt prosecutor who refused to prosecute corruption at Burisma, which by the way is exactly the type of corruption that Joe Biden wanted.
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I never disputed that Shokin was corrupt. I simply pointed out that he was replaced by another corrupt prosecutor. Hence Biden holds no moral high ground here for ridding Ukraine of a corrupt prosecutor because Ukraine still ended up with a corrupt prosecutor. In this case, a corrupt prosecutor who refused to prosecute corruption at Burisma, which by the way is exactly the type of corruption that Joe Biden wanted.
Stop using logic and stuff. It's making sense. yogi555
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I never disputed that Shokin was corrupt. I simply pointed out that he was replaced by another corrupt prosecutor. Hence Biden holds no moral high ground here for ridding Ukraine of a corrupt prosecutor because Ukraine still ended up with a corrupt prosecutor. In this case, a corrupt prosecutor who refused to prosecute corruption at Burisma, which by the way is exactly the type of corruption that Joe Biden wanted.
Isn't it more like neither one of them investigated?
It seems like Trump asking the new Ukrainian president to investigate was like asking the Kremlin to investigate Russian crime.
The reason that I brought up Manafort.
How Paul Manafort Helped Elect Russia's Man in Ukraine
excerpt:
But that’s not how U.S. diplomats saw it at the time. A U.S. embassy cable sent from Kiev to Washington in 2006 described Manafort’s job as giving an “extreme makeover†to a presidential hopeful named Viktor Yanukovych, who had the backing of the Kremlin and most of Ukraine’s wealthiest tycoons. His Party of Regions, the cable said, was “a haven†for “mobsters and oligarchs.â€
https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/
Perfect, just perfect. BTW Trump said in post acquittal presser he has always been a politician and I believe him. Even though he never bothered to register to vote in an American election until 1987.
A timeline of Paul Manafort's relationship with Donald Trump
They've known each other since the 1980's
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2017/10/a-timeline-of-paul-manaforts-relationship-with-the-trump-world.html
It really is no surprise that Giuliani was working very hard with those criminals to make a case for Trump.
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Oh, but wait. Perhaps the reason we are all so confused. The players are the same. Run in the same circles. Use the same lobbying firms and make their millions from shady Kremlin associates. Oh gosh, its Hillary. No wonder Trump said she had suffered enough. Or that he was honored by her presence at the Inauguration breakfast.
Clinton ally resigns as firm cited in Manafort indictment
https://www.wnd.com/2017/10/clinton-ally-resigns-as-firm-cited-in-manafort-indictment/ (https://www.wnd.com/2017/10/clinton-ally-resigns-as-firm-cited-in-manafort-indictment/)
The indictment, the Daily Caller was first to report, states Manafort and associate Paul Gates – both of whom were charged with tax evasion and other crimes – chose two companies, dubbed Company A and Company B, to engage in "a multi-million dollar lobbying campaign in the United States at the direction of [former Ukrainian President Victor] Yanukovych, the Party of Regions, and the government of Ukraine" from 2006 to 2014. NBC News previously reported, citing sources close to the investigation, that Mueller's probe had expanded to the Podesta Group. The other lobby group in the indictment is reported to be Mercury LLC.
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Isn't it more like neither one of them investigated?
Non-sequitur. Doesn't change the fact that the argument about replacing Shokin as an anti-corruption measure is completely without merit.
It seems like Trump asking the new Ukrainian president to investigate was like asking the Kremlin to investigate Russian crime.
Trump never asked Zelensky to investigate anything. He simply asked for answers about Crowdstrike (pertaining to the 2016 election) and about why Shokin was fired. At no point did Trump ask Zelensky to investigate the Bidens.
The reason that I brought up Manafort.
You brought up Manafort to divert away from the realization that your defense of Biden has zero merit.
How Paul Manafort Helped Elect Russia's Man in Ukraine
excerpt:
But that’s not how U.S. diplomats saw it at the time. A U.S. embassy cable sent from Kiev to Washington in 2006 described Manafort’s job as giving an “extreme makeover†to a presidential hopeful named Viktor Yanukovych, who had the backing of the Kremlin and most of Ukraine’s wealthiest tycoons. His Party of Regions, the cable said, was “a haven†for “mobsters and oligarchs.â€
https://time.com/5003623/paul-manafort-mueller-indictment-ukraine-russia/
Perfect, just perfect. BTW Trump said in post acquittal presser he has always been a politician and I believe him. Even though he never bothered to register to vote in an American election until 1987.
That's really beautiful and all. Except it has absolutely ZERO to do with Trump and his phone call. You do realize that Zelenskyy is President of Ukraine and not Yanukovych, right? And you also realize that Trump's ties with Paul Manafort were permanently severed before Trump even became President, right? So your tactic of slinging mud and hoping something sticks is not something that is tolerated on a Conservative forum, primarily because it is made up of people who are able to reason and think critically. In other words, bringing up Manafort's name is a huge red flag that let's everyone know that you aren't able to come up with anything credible against Trump.
I can accept anyone taking issue with Trump for things he has actually done. He's divorced twice, engaged in infidelity, went through several bankruptcies, has fallen short of a few campaign promises, and doesn't always take Conservative positions. I get it. These are all valid concerns of various degrees of importance to anyone. But I absolutely positively will not allow non-rational Democrat talking points being recited here to go unchallenged. So each time you come up with this 'the reason Biden got the prosecutor fired was to fight corruption' bullshit, I am going to challenge you on it. Because to me TRUTH matters. And I will never ever ever sacrifice TRUTH in order to push a political agenda. Capisce?
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Non-sequitur. Doesn't change the fact that the argument about replacing Shokin as an anti-corruption measure is completely without merit.
Trump never asked Zelensky to investigate anything. He simply asked for answers about Crowdstrike (pertaining to the 2016 election) and about why Shokin was fired. At no point did Trump ask Zelensky to investigate the Bidens.
You brought up Manafort to divert away from the realization that your defense of Biden has zero merit.
That's really beautiful and all. Except it has absolutely ZERO to do with Trump and his phone call. You do realize that Zelenskyy is President of Ukraine and not Yanukovych, right? And you also realize that Trump's ties with Paul Manafort were permanently severed before Trump even became President, right? So your tactic of slinging mud and hoping something sticks is not something that is tolerated on a Conservative forum, primarily because it is made up of people who are able to reason and think critically. In other words, bringing up Manafort's name is a huge red flag that let's everyone know that you aren't able to come up with anything credible against Trump.
I can accept anyone taking issue with Trump for things he has actually done. He's divorced twice, engaged in infidelity, went through several bankruptcies, has fallen short of a few campaign promises, and doesn't always take Conservative positions. I get it. These are all valid concerns of various degrees of importance to anyone. But I absolutely positively will not allow non-rational Democrat talking points being recited here to go unchallenged. So each time you come up with this 'the reason Biden got the prosecutor fired was to fight corruption' bullshit, I am going to challenge you on it. Because to me TRUTH matters. And I will never ever ever sacrifice TRUTH in order to push a political agenda. Capisce?
Oh, capisce!
What you want is to leave out the pesky details of how the swamp is DC. And they swim in the same scum. And all of us are just on a ride to defend one swamp critter over another. Even though they are all involved in the same lobbying corruption that has made them associates to criminal enterprises. In this case with Manafort, Ukraine. And sshhhhh. Don't bring that up. And yes I do realize that Yanukovych is no longer president.
Trump is always bringing up Clinton and her emails. But he is the one who said she suffered enough. I always wondered why? Why after all the "lock her up" mantra. Well they have always been friends and have always had the same circle of associates. Manafort was one.
The Swamp Is D.C.
https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/trump-clinton-manafort-podesta-are-all-part-of-the-swamp-ben-shapiro/ (https://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/trump-clinton-manafort-podesta-are-all-part-of-the-swamp-ben-shapiro/)
And Dershowitz also. A liberal defending Trump. Writing books. The outcome was known from the beginning. And I say and post all of this because we are all being played by politics.
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Oh, Biden and Obama too.
Manafort’s pro-Ukraine lobbying campaign reached Obama, Biden
By MARIANNE LEVINE 09/14/2018 01:24 PM EDT
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-ukraine-obama-biden-824747 (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/14/manafort-ukraine-obama-biden-824747)
See the connection? Well in case you didn't its Manafort and Ukrainian lobbying.
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Manafort, Manafort, Manafort! Seriously, that is the best you've got? The man was fired off over three years ago. He has zero to do with the impeachment case. And even more importantly, he has zero to do with your patently false statements about Biden's moral position on Shokin's firing.
So ask yourself. Does TRUTH really matter to you? Because if it does, then you would retract your statement. But if it doesn't, then keep digging up mud from Paul Manfort's 2003, hoping somehow that it justifies removing Trump from office based on totally bogus and discredited articles of impeachment.
* Personally, I am one of the biggest Manafort-haters out there. (See: Ford '76) But that dog has nothing to do with this impeachment. So stop tossing his name out there to cover for your DNC talking points being exposed for the lies they are.
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Another episode from the "Scatter brain series.
I want Trump to be impeached.'
'I would accept socialism'
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Manafort, Manafort, Manafort! Seriously, that is the best you've got? The man was fired off over three years ago. He has zero to do with the impeachment case. And even more importantly, he has zero to do with your patently false statements about Biden's moral position on Shokin's firing.
So ask yourself. Does TRUTH really matter to you? Because if it does, then you would retract your statement. But if it doesn't, then keep digging up mud from Paul Manfort's 2003, hoping somehow that it justifies removing Trump from office based on totally bogus and discredited articles of impeachment.
* Personally, I am one of the biggest Manafort-haters out there. (See: Ford '76) But that dog has nothing to do with this impeachment. So stop tossing his name out there to cover for your DNC talking points being exposed for the lies they are.
Yeah BS. None of this would have happened if it didn't start with Manafort, Flynn and Mueller. The reason nothing came to fruition is because members of both parties are neck deep in Ukraine with ties to Manafort. If Trump didn't have ties to the same swamp this never would have happened to him.
And I will also say that Trump promoted himself as an outsider. A non politicians but he has been connected for many years. Its his own doing with his connections that has drawn him into his own mess.
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Yeah BS. None of this would have happened if it didn't start with Manafort, Flynn and Mueller. The reason nothing came to fruition is because members of both parties are neck deep in Ukraine with ties to Manafort. If Trump didn't have ties to the same swamp this never would have happened to him.
Oh, dear GOD!, buy a damn vowel, already ... educate yourself, woman. Educate yourself!
The ignorance in your posts is exhausting.
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Oh, dear GOD!, buy a damn vowel, already ... educate yourself, woman. Educate yourself!
The ignorance in your posts is exhausting.
I am. Can't you tell. Remember Dershowitz Trumps lawyer in his impeachment trial?
https://www.newsweek.com/paul-manafort-plea-deal-trump-1123038 (https://www.newsweek.com/paul-manafort-plea-deal-trump-1123038)
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/406909-dershowitz-manafort-and-trump-acted-too-late-to-avoid-consequences (https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/406909-dershowitz-manafort-and-trump-acted-too-late-to-avoid-consequences)
Maybe Trump will still pardon Manafort?
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I am. Can't you tell. Remember Dershowitz Trumps lawyer in his impeachment trial?
https://www.newsweek.com/paul-manafort-plea-deal-trump-1123038 (https://www.newsweek.com/paul-manafort-plea-deal-trump-1123038)
So two years after Trump fired Manafort (and almost a year before Trump spoke with Zelenskyy), Manafort struck a plea deal on matters that had absolutely ZERO to do with Donald Trump. Again, so what? What does this have to do with the FACT that your claim about Joe Biden getting Sorkin fired as an anti-corruption move is patently false?
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So two years after Trump fired Manafort (and almost a year before Trump spoke with Zelenskyy), Manafort struck a plea deal on matters that had absolutely ZERO to do with Donald Trump. Again, so what? What does this have to do with the FACT that your claim about Joe Biden getting Sorkin fired as an anti-corruption move is patently false?
What? As far as I know Shokin was corrupt and deserved to be fired. And Dershowitz was very concerned with Manafort and his plea deal concerning Trump.
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Maybe Trump will still pardon Manafort?
Geez, I hope not.
Manafort, Stone, and Pecker and their politico-thuggery need to be a distant memory.
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What? As far as I know Shokin was corrupt and deserved to be fired.
And you also know that Shokin was replaced with another corrupt prosecutor - one that would be corrupt in Biden's favor. Yet you intentionally ignore that Truth while defending Biden's actions - actions which involved the direct knowledgeable withholding of US funds until an action favorable to Biden was met.
And Dershowitz was very concerned with Manafort and his plea deal concerning Trump.
Which of course has ZERO to do with Trump's impeachment. But then you knew that already. btw, Dershowitz' concerns proved to be unfounded since Manafort's testimony couldn't be trusted.
Mueller says Manafort breached plea deal by lying (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/26/mueller-manafort-plea-deal-lying-1017278)
But then you knew that already too. Yet here you are doubling and tripling down on things you know are either not relevant or just plain false.
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Geez, I hope not.
Manafort, Stone, and Pecker and their politico-thuggery need to be a distant memory.
They already are a distant memory, or at least they were before ChosenDaughter resurrected Manafort as a justification for removing Trump from office.
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And you also know that Shokin was replaced with another corrupt prosecutor - one that would be corrupt in Biden's favor. Yet you intentionally ignore that Truth while defending Biden's actions - actions which involved the direct knowledgeable withholding of US funds until an action favorable to Biden was met.
Which of course has ZERO to do with Trump's impeachment. But then you knew that already. btw, Dershowitz' concerns proved to be unfounded since Manafort's testimony couldn't be trusted.
Mueller says Manafort breached plea deal by lying (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/26/mueller-manafort-plea-deal-lying-1017278)
But then you knew that already too. Yet here you are doubling and tripling down on things you know are either not relevant or just plain false.
I am not defending Biden's actions. I'm not defending Trump's either. If he wanted to investigate corruption he should have done it through the Justice Department. Not Giuliani. But isn't that the issue? Giuliani is also tied to criminals. LOL!
I don't like Creepy Joe Biden. I don't like Nancy Pelosi. I don't like Hillary Clinton and she should have been locked up. But wasn't because Trump said she suffered enough.
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They already are a distant memory, or at least they were before ChosenDaughter resurrected Manafort as a justification for removing Trump from office.
I don't think that the Democrats could have removed Trump from office because they have too many ties to Ukraine themselves.
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They already are a distant memory, or at least they were before ChosenDaughter resurrected Manafort as a justification for removing Trump from office.
And I must point out that Trump mentioned how good the New York Post is to him in his post acquittal presser. So, from the New York Post:
Rudy Giuliani consulted Paul Manafort to bolster his Ukraine theory
By Yaron Steinbuch
October 3, 2019 | 10:18am | Updated
https://nypost.com/2019/10/03/rudy-giuliani-consulted-paul-manafort-to-bolster-his-ukraine-theory/
I guess that Manafort wasn't a distant memory to Giuliani. Interesting angle. Probing the man Manafort campaign manager/criminal for Trump to prove that Democrats were tied to Ukraine? Something tells me that Trump shouldn't have been friends with that guy all those years.
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Oh, dear GOD!, buy a damn vowel, already ... educate yourself, woman. Educate yourself!
The ignorance in your posts is exhausting.
@Right_in_Virginia
You are wasting your time. I believe she is a group of DNC people posing as a Christian female conservative in an effort to weaken Trump and other Republican chances for re-election. The Dims are both desperate and evil,which pretty much defines THIS "Christian Daughter",who probably drinks Scotch and smokes cigars.
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@Right_in_Virginia
You are wasting your time. I believe she is a group of DNC people posing as a Christian female conservative in an effort to weaken Trump and other Republican chances for re-election. The Dims are both desperate and evil,which pretty much defines THIS "Christian Daughter",who probably drinks Scotch and smokes cigars.
I just wanted to memorialize your post here before, well, before whatever happens next. wink777
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@Chosen Daughter
@Victoria33
Please take the time to watch the videos (especially the first video -- links below). Beck does connect the dots. He has also mentioned on his program, not to take his word for it -- he has done the research --- do your OWN research. The information is out there and easily obtained -- all you have to do is also connect the dots.
It might be helpful to put the hatred and preconceived notions aside and look at the reality.
Most importantly, the President of the United States has been ACQUITED. He has been found NOT GUILTY yet here we sit.
This will be my last post on this thread. I find it troubling that this witch hunt continues on in this forum. I chose to move on. I invite everyone else to as well.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHihyFsgJGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHihyFsgJGc#)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCSwqca8KXU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCSwqca8KXU#)
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I just wanted to memorialize your post here before, well, before whatever happens next. wink777
@aligncare
I have,by nature,a VERY low tolerance level for bullshit,outright lies,and purposeful deception. Frankly,I held out longer than I thought I would because I thought someone else would call her/him/Dim focus group out on their carefully staged plan to use stealth and lies to insure a Dim wins the WH. That didn't happen,so I let lose. Let the cards fall where they may because I no longer give a squat.
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I just wanted to memorialize your post here before, well, before whatever happens next. wink777
I don't know. Her intentions might be honorable. But what she really needs to do is as I have.
I have made it no secret that that I dislike Trump as a person. He's pretty damn dispicable as a human being. (IMO)
OTOH, we all need to compartmentalize the concepts of Donald Trump as friend or family versus the man as a leader.
Facts are
* that our economy is booming
* conservative judges are being filled that will help us for the next 30 years
* regulations are being lessened to help that boom
* promotion of energy independence to allow us to give OPEC/ME the finger
* Strenthening of the Miitary
* Border Attention
Now contrast that with the alternative.... Top 4 candidates for the dims include 2 certified avowed Socialist, an ultra left wing homosexual, and the leader of one of the most corrupt political crime families in U.S history.
Even if you absolutley hate Trump. Anyone center or right on the politcal spectra is foolish not coalescing around Candidate Trump. Any one of the Four Donkeymen of the Apocalypse will be a disaster for this country that has made so many gains economically the past 3+ years.
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Now contrast that with the alternative.... Top 4 candidates for the dims include 2 certified avowed Socialist, an ultra left wing homosexual, and the leader of one of the most corrupt political crime families in U.S history.
Even if you absolutley hate Trump. Anyone center or right on the politcal spectra is foolish not coalescing around Candidate Trump. Any one of the Four Donkeymen of the Apocalypse will be a disaster for this country that has made so many gains economically the past 3+ years.
@catfish1957
Which IS the proof that she/he/the committee workgroup are Dim shills or Neo-cons,which are virtually the same critter.
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@Right_in_Virginia
You are wasting your time. I believe she is a group of DNC people posing as a Christian female conservative in an effort to weaken Trump and other Republican chances for re-election. The Dims are both desperate and evil,which pretty much defines THIS "Christian Daughter",who probably drinks Scotch and smokes cigars.
Bullcrap @sneakypete
I've known @Chosen Daughter since Hector was a pup.
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@Right_in_Virginia
You are wasting your time. I believe she is a group of DNC people posing as a Christian female conservative in an effort to weaken Trump and other Republican chances for re-election. The Dims are both desperate and evil, which pretty much defines THIS "Christian Daughter", who probably drinks Scotch and smokes cigars.
Interesting thesis @sneakypete .... I can't say I'd be surprised if this turns out to be true.
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I don't know. Her intentions might be honorable.
Of course her intentions are honorable.
OTOH, we all need to compartmentalize the concepts of Donald Trump as friend or family versus the man as a leader.
LOL! No, we do not.
Character first and always. Because character will always out.
Now contrast that with the alternative.... Top 4 candidates for the dims include 2 certified avowed Socialist, an ultra left wing homosexual, and the leader of one of the most corrupt political crime families in U.S history.
Even if you absolutley hate Trump. Anyone center or right on the politcal spectra is foolish not coalescing around Candidate Trump. Any one of the Four Donkeymen of the Apocalypse will be a disaster for this country that has made so many gains economically the past 3+ years.
Absolutely not. Just yet another bid for the lesser evil.
Evil is evil, lesser or otherwise.
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Absolutely not. Just yet another bid for the lesser evil.
Evil is evil, lesser or otherwise.
@roamer_1
Respectfully disagree.
I have come to conclusion that Trump's outrageous comments are a masterful strategic diversion to his enemies. Think about it, he actually baited the Speaker of the House into tearing up his speech with every damned camera pointed at her. Do you realize how badly that made her look?
And to the matter of lessers of evil's. When it comes to the survival of this country, I don't think that is really a hard choice at all. Based on what DJT has accomplished vs. the 4 Donkeymen of the Apocalypse? Have you even listened or read any of the snipits of dim debates? Those mofos are dangerous.
No I don't like Trump, but the alternative is lethal.
And one last edit: I'll bet money there will be a SCOTUS appointment between January 21, 2021 and late 2024. Who do you want making that appointment.
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@roamer_1
Respectfully disagree.
I have come to conclusion that Trump's outrageous comments are a masterful strategic diversion to his enemies. Think about it, he actually baited the Speaker of the House into tearing up his speech with every damned camera pointed at her. Do you realize how badly that made her look?
Respectfully right back atcha. :beer:
As to Pelousy, perhaps you should ask my whacko-liberal sister her perspective. Because it is diametrically opposing yours.
All y'all, both sides, have your heroes. All y'all, both sides, believe the others' media is lying. It is almost comical, standing outside of it all. It would be comical, except the thing that goes missing is the truth.
And to the matter of lessers of evil's. When it comes to the survival of this country, I don't think that is really a hard choice at all. Based on what DJT has accomplished vs. the 4 Donkeymen of the Apocalypse? Have you even listened or read any of the snipits of dim debates? Those mofos are dangerous.
There is no survival of this country without the principles that made her great.
And one last edit: I'll bet money there will be a SCOTUS appointment between January 21, 2021 and late 2024. Who do you want making that appointment.
You are pointing at the NYC liberal president and NWO Republicans and telling me they are more trustworthy?
Gimme a break. Not a chance in hell of that being true. I don't trust either side to make that appointment.
But then, I am a Conservative, so it should be no surprise that I don't trust government of any stripe.
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Oh, dear GOD!, buy a damn vowel, already ... educate yourself, woman. Educate yourself!
The ignorance in your posts is exhausting.
:cool:
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@roamer_1
Do you really think "Tump" would select the same Judges as, say, a President Warren?
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@roamer_1
Do you really think "Tump" would select the same Judges as, say, a President Warren?
That is not the point.
Rather: Roberts was thoroughly vetted, touted as a great conservative. All the right organizations sung his praises. How is today any different? And when the chips were down, and the rubber met the road, Roberts screws the pooch.
That is the point.
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That is not the point.
Rather: Roberts was thoroughly vetted, touted as a great conservative. All the right organizations sung his praises. How is today any different? And when the chips were down, and the rubber met the road, Roberts screws the pooch.
That is the point.
Geezus...
It certainly IS the point.
If Hillary had given us 2 judges instead of Pres. Trump, you'd have been disarmed already.
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Geezus...
It certainly IS the point.
If Hillary had given us 2 judges instead of Pres. Trump, you'd have been disarmed already.
LOL! No I wouldn't. Guaranteed.
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That is not the point.
Rather: Roberts was thoroughly vetted, touted as a great conservative. All the right organizations sung his praises. How is today any different? And when the chips were down, and the rubber met the road, Roberts screws the pooch.
That is the point.
Here's another point: Roberts was not nominated by "Tump," he was nominated by a severely weakened Bush, first as Associate Justice, then elevated to Chief Justice before being confirmed. I don't think it's accurate to compare Roberts to, say, Gorsuch.
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That is not the point.
Rather: Roberts was thoroughly vetted, touted as a great conservative. All the right organizations sung his praises. How is today any different? And when the chips were down, and the rubber met the road, Roberts screws the pooch.
That is the point.
You do realize that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that there are skeletons in Justice Robert's closet, and that the Obama and the dims exploited that on important SCOTUS votes?
That tells me that the vetting sucked. That's the lesson there.
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Here's another point: Roberts was not nominated by "Tump," he was nominated by a severely weakened Bush, first as Associate Justice, then elevated to Chief Justice before being confirmed. I don't think it's accurate to compare Roberts to, say, Gorsuch.
Both Kavanaugh and Gorsuch come out of Kennedy's house. That is not encouraging. I might hold some hope for Gorsuch, but it is faint hope. I expect BOHICA.
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Both Kavanaugh and Gorsuch come out of Kennedy's house. That is not encouraging. I might hold some hope for Gorsuch, but it is faint hope. I expect BOHICA.
If the next election is won by the dims, the next SCOTUS justice may be Obama. How does that sound?
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You do realize that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that there are skeletons in Justice Robert's closet, and that the Obama and the dims exploited that on important SCOTUS votes?
That tells me that the vetting sucked. That's the lesson there.
And the vetting now is no different. Though I do not need to believe in those skeletons. That shifts the blame to Roberts rather than the SOBs that put him in there. I am far more confident that he is exactly what he was picked for... By moderate Republicans.
And that has not changed a whit.
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If the next election is won by the dims, the next SCOTUS justice may be Obama. How does that sound?
Don't care. Again with the lesser evil. That line of thinking removes all consequence for bad performance by Republicans.
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Both Kavanaugh and Gorsuch come out of Kennedy's house. That is not encouraging. I might hold some hope for Gorsuch, but it is faint hope. I expect BOHICA.
Line up the last 10 or so Justices named by Republican Presidents and you'd find most "grew in the job" within the first 5 years. Like Souter, Kennedy and O'Connor, just to name the first three off the top of my head.
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Don't care. Again with the lesser evil. That line of thinking removes all consequence for bad performance by Republicans.
That assumes it's binary. Kennedy, for all his disappointments, was far better than Ginsburg or Suiter.
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That assumes it's binary. Kennedy, for all his disappointments, was far better than Ginsburg or Suiter.
In the same way, you could praise the Gang of Eight.
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Line up the last 10 or so Justices named by Republican Presidents and you'd find most "grew in the job" within the first 5 years. Like Souter, Kennedy and O'Connor, just to name the first three off the top of my head.
Exactly my point.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qoA9p-TDMNM/TqG4aT78quI/AAAAAAAADGU/4UY2zEPTNHE/s1600/gp_cb_lucy_football.jpg)
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In the same way, you could praise the Gang of Eight.
Nope. The "Gang of Eight" was 8/535ths of a branch of government, while a SCOTUS Justice is 1/9. I detested them, but they were far less of a voice than a Sotomayor.
And that's the choice we get. Elect a Rat in 2020, and we'll have Justice O'Bastard. And don't try to sell me the notion that O'Bastard would not be worse than Gorsuch.
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Exactly my point.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qoA9p-TDMNM/TqG4aT78quI/AAAAAAAADGU/4UY2zEPTNHE/s1600/gp_cb_lucy_football.jpg)
So I guess the difference is just where the football goes. We either have it pulled away, or we get it rammed up our collective butt. I think I'd give up too, if I thought that was the choice.
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@Right_in_Virginia
You are wasting your time. I believe she is a group of DNC people posing as a Christian female conservative in an effort to weaken Trump and other Republican chances for re-election. The Dims are both desperate and evil,which pretty much defines THIS "Christian Daughter",who probably drinks Scotch and smokes cigars.
Listen to yourself! The Christian hater. But you don't hate Trumps Christian brand do you? The Jerry Falwell Jr. Types that are a mouthpiece for Vladimir Putin. Please read his twitter if you don't believe me. https://twitter.com/JerryFalwellJr/status/1023267457304326145
And he is getting well deserved history lessons probably from liberals. Can't find a single thing about God on his twitter page. All Trump and Russia.
Or Paula White who is the judge of Christians who don't go all in for Trump. She's ready to damn them all to hell.
I saw the other day on @TomSea tag line he had a link to Rubio's twitter. I had never looked before but if you want to see a man of God look there. That is what a man of God posts in his twitter.
The other day I was nearly ready to say that I might be able to cast my vote for Trump. Because like all of you, I am not a Democrat and do not want Socialism. That seems to be what Pence and Trump realize is the winning ticket. The one phrase every Conservative knows. "We will never be a Socialist country". And then I did it. I listened to Trumps post acquittal presser. I saw that he was hand picking Senators without others even getting a chance. I saw that this Josh Hawley was courting Bannon for his Populist Party. You know, the "Workers Party". I also saw Trump admit that he has been a politician for a very long time.
And unlike most of you I can't ignore the lies. You all want to pretend that Trump had nothing to do with his own "witch hunt". He didn't choose his Russian Oligarch Manafort by mistake. No, they have been business associates for years. (1980). So when you run with the liberal crowd who also have ties to Russia and Ukraine what can you expect? Trump started this all (Mueller investigation) by having ties to Russia. Then he went on to poke the liberal hornet nest using Giuliani and his corrupt criminal friends Parnas and Fruman to start a political battle.
Poor Trump.
Not one of you would like to admit that Trumps liberal and Russian associates have been his own downfall. Even the ones who spied on him in the White House. (Amorosa). And his other criminal lawyer friend Cohen. And he goes around trying to destroy people's careers if they don't get on full board. (Bolton and Sessions).
And I would also like to mention that Susan Collins is receiving death threats for voting to acquit. She really deserves all of you trashing her doesn't she?
And the constant trashing of @Victoria33 , @roamer_1 , @Absalom .
Well I posted the article where Steve Bannon describes how Trump has been planning his "populist party" for 25-30 years. Is that when he finally registered to vote? Maybe he decided that he had to be the Great in America. Well I am a proud Conservative. I don't pal around with criminals and Russian pawns and criminals and excuse me for pointing it out. Trump is a politician. No outsider to lobbying and that is how he met his criminal friends. That is how Giuliani has connection to his criminal friends also.
Have a good day.
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Nope. The "Gang of Eight" was 8/535ths of a branch of government, while a SCOTUS Justice is 1/9. I detested them, but they were far less of a voice than a Sotomayor.
And that's the choice we get. Elect a Rat in 2020, and we'll have Justice O'Bastard. And don't try to sell me the notion that O'Bastard would not be worse than Gorsuch.
Gang of Eight stopped any Conservative wins. Positioned right over the fulcrum. Kennedy did the same thing.
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So I guess the difference is just where the football goes. We either have it pulled away, or we get it rammed up our collective butt. I think I'd give up too, if I thought that was the choice.
That IS the choice. What makes you think I have given up?
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The other day I was nearly ready to say that I might be able to cast my vote for Trump.
:silly:
Not buying it. You said the same thing about killing a terrorist responsible for the deaths of at least 600 American soldiers, until Trump said something you didn't like, then it was back to "Trump should not have done it."
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_snss6u0-WRI/TMxubKrJH6I/AAAAAAAADkA/kprWiMcXiDU/s1600/no_sale_cash_register_ars1.jpg)
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Gang of Eight stopped any Conservative wins. Positioned right over the fulcrum. Kennedy did the same thing.
Meanwhile, Souter and Ginsburg were never in doubt. So it boils down to "No" or "Maybe." Very few "Yeses."
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That IS the choice. What makes you think I have given up?
I dunno....maybe it's the "There is no difference between Democrats and Republicans" part. :shrug:
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:silly:
Not buying it. You said the same thing about killing a terrorist responsible for the deaths of at least 600 American soldiers, until Trump said something you didn't like, then it was back to "Trump should not have done it."
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_snss6u0-WRI/TMxubKrJH6I/AAAAAAAADkA/kprWiMcXiDU/s1600/no_sale_cash_register_ars1.jpg)
I said I am not shedding tears the terrorist is dead. But why did Trump have to lie about it? You obviously love to be lied to.
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I said I am not shedding tears the terrorist is dead. But why did Trump have to lie about it? You obviously love to be lied to.
The left loves to characterize opposing perspectives as 'lies'. We should know better than to follow suite.
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I said I am not shedding tears the terrorist is dead. But why did Trump have to lie about it? You obviously love to be lied to.
Bullshit. You said at the time what changed your mind was Trump's suggestion that cultural sites could be hit, as Dresden was. Any alleged "lies" about it were all after you already "changed your mind" that maybe Trump did a good thing.
And you can take the "you must like being lied to" and shove it.
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I dunno....maybe it's the "There is no difference between Democrats and Republicans" part. :shrug:
There isn't any difference.
Serve the dems and get socialism through the UN
Serve the pubs and get NWO 3rd way socialism through the corps.
Pick your master.
I pick neither. I don't know what that would be a surprise. And it does not mean I have given up.
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The left loves to characterize opposing perspectives as 'lies'. We should know better than to follow suite.
I've just about had it with the resident leftist in practice who claims to be more"right" than any of us in theory.
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There isn't any difference.
Serve the dems and get socialism through the UN
Serve the pubs and get NWO 3rd way socialism through the corps.
Pick your master.
I pick neither. I don't know what that would be a surprise. And it does not mean I have given up.
In practical terms, you may have.
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I've just about had it with the resident leftist in practice who claims to be more"right" than any of us in theory.
The schtick grows tiresome.
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Nope. The "Gang of Eight" was 8/535ths of a branch of government, while a SCOTUS Justice is 1/9. I detested them, but they were far less of a voice than a Sotomayor.
And that's the choice we get. Elect a Rat in 2020, and we'll have Justice O'Bastard. And don't try to sell me the notion that O'Bastard would not be worse than Gorsuch.
Well, I prefer justices who have at least read the Constitution.
Roberts was seriously compromised to make such egregious moves on the ACA as rewriting the penalty into a tax on breathing, something we repeatedly heard it was NOT, and in rewriting a bit of legislation (not his job) in order to rule it constitutional. There were other problems no serious student of the Constitution would not take issue with, so his motivation is neither that of ignorance, nor likely of partisanship, but leverage exerted by those who wanted to keep the ACA intact. Apparently that includes people from both sides of the aisle, because despite EOs mitigating the worst of it, it's still there.
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In practical terms, you may have.
No, I have not. There is nothing practical in supporting either one.
I choose liberty, and the Conservatism that defends it.
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The schtick grows tiresome.
The rule of "no bans for what's said" still stands.
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Well, I prefer justices who have at least read the Constitution.
Roberts was seriously compromised to make such egregious moves on the ACA as rewriting the penalty into a tax on breathing, something we repeatedly heard it was NOT, and in rewriting a bit of legislation (not his job) in order to rule it constitutional. There were other problems no serious student of the Constitution would not take issue with, so his motivation is neither that of ignorance, nor likely of partisanship, but leverage exerted by those who wanted to keep the ACA intact. Apparently that includes people from both sides of the aisle, because despite EOs mitigating the worst of it, it's still there.
I remember the rule I learnt long ago in the corporate world: "One 'Aw Shit' will erase 100 'Atta Boys'." Roberts wasn't a complete failure, but we remember well that one time he stabbed the Nation in the back.
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Well, I prefer justices who have at least read the Constitution.
Roberts was seriously compromised to make such egregious moves on the ACA as rewriting the penalty into a tax on breathing, something we repeatedly heard it was NOT, and in rewriting a bit of legislation (not his job) in order to rule it constitutional. There were other problems no serious student of the Constitution would not take issue with, so his motivation is neither that of ignorance, nor likely of partisanship, but leverage exerted by those who wanted to keep the ACA intact. Apparently that includes people from both sides of the aisle, because despite EOs mitigating the worst of it, it's still there.
IIRC the government's own lawyers argued repeatedly before the court that the penalty was NOT a tax. Could be wrong but I don't think so. @Smokin Joe
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No, I have not. There is nothing practical in supporting either one.
I choose liberty, and the Conservatism that defends it.
I think that last part is true of the majority of Briefers, we only differ on how to get there. :shrug:
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There isn't any difference.
Serve the dems and get socialism through the UN
Serve the pubs and get NWO 3rd way socialism through the corps.
Pick your master.
I pick neither. I don't know what that would be a surprise. And it does not mean I have given up.
I agree, but we have lots of dreck from lesser evils to trudge through before the masses even get a clue what Liberty is, and why it is desirable. IF that happens, it likely will not in our lifetimes, short of a cataclysmic return to a concept most are wholly ignorant of.
Those of us who remember the relative lack of encumbrance of the RKBA before the GCA of '68 even have trouble imagining what it was like before the NFA of '34. That's how far we need to go, and it, short of tremendous upheaval, will simply not happen overnight. It has taken 160+ years to get this far from the Republic Dr. Franklin admonished us to keep, and it will be a long road back, especially with the Communists and other totalitarians brainwashing for generations.
Only for that reason can I see that transition of lesser evils, so long as each is less than that previous, before finally breaking through into the light.
Would I eminently prefer a wave of epiphany sweep over the collective American psyche and the demand shift to Liberty, not slavery? Oh, dear Jesus, yes!
But short of Divine intervention, I do not believe it will happen that way.
Still, The Almighty uses what tools He will, imperfect people to do great things, and by their fruits shall we know them.
Ever strive for better, but we fight with the army we have.
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IIRC the government's own lawyers argued repeatedly before the court that the penalty was NOT a tax. Could be wrong but I don't think so. @Smokin Joe
You recall correctly. The argument Roberts used to justify O'Bastardcare was never argued in Court, therefore our side was denied the opportunity to argue against it. It would be like a Jury returning a verdict of "Guilty of Murder" when the original charge was "Burglary." Murder wasn't even charged.
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IIRC the government's own lawyers argued repeatedly before the court that the penalty was NOT a tax. Could be wrong but I don't think so. @Smokin Joe
The architects of that abomination repeatedly countered the claims of taxing people for merely being alive with the mantra that it was a penalty and not a tax.
I heard Bernie today on the radio harping that millions were without health insurance.
Well, who in the >bleep< does he think made it that way? I HAD health insurance before the Damnedocrats started messing with it.
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You recall correctly. The argument Roberts used to justify O'Bastardcare was never argued in Court, therefore our side was denied the opportunity to argue against it. It would be like a Jury returning a verdict of "Guilty of Murder" when the original charge was "Burglary." Murder wasn't even charged.
:yowsa: Exactly right @Cyber Liberty
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The architects of that abomination repeatedly countered the claims of taxing people for merely being alive with the mantra that it was a penalty and not a tax.
I heard Bernie today on the radio harping that millions were without health insurance.
Well, who in the >bleep< does he think made it that way? I HAD health insurance before the Damnedocrats started messing with it.
The left will not stand for people who do not need them living in this country! They simply cannot allow that.
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:yowsa: Exactly right @Cyber Liberty
The key part of that is, Roberts changed the argument, without giving anybody a chance to refute it. That's dirty pool.
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Only for that reason can I see that transition of lesser evils, so long as each is less than that previous, before finally breaking through into the light.
Would I eminently prefer a wave of epiphany sweep over the collective American psyche and the demand shift to Liberty, not slavery? Oh, dear Jesus, yes!
But short of Divine intervention, I do not believe it will happen that way.
Still, The Almighty uses what tools He will, imperfect people to do great things, and by their fruits shall we know them.
Ever strive for better, but we fight with the army we have.
I will disagree - which is rare with you, Joe.
Lesser evil has consistently proven to move us the other way - Not toward liberty, but always away from it... It is definitively the shedding of principle things. That which is not insisted upon will not be defended in the next election. And so it goes. Soon it is all nothing but lip service.
And the mechanism of that is indeed mechanical. Lesser is the excuse, but it removes all consequence for no performance. We all 'know' somehow we'd have been worse off if (x)... Which is not necessarily true because it is actually unknown.
To me it is the ultimate cop out. The easy way. And we know where the wide road goes.
In the end it is not winning. Because what we are supposedly defending will be all gone.
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The key part of that is, Roberts changed the argument, without giving anybody a chance to refute it. That's dirty pool.
Not only did he rewrite the law, he rewrote the arguments as well. :crying: **nononono*
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I will disagree - which is rare with you, Joe.
Lesser evil has consistently proven to move us the other way - Not toward liberty, but always away from it... It is definitively the shedding of principle things. That which is not insisted upon will not be defended in the next election. And so it goes. Soon it is all nothing but lip service.
And the mechanism of that is indeed mechanical. Lesser is the excuse, but it removes all consequence for no performance. We all 'know' somehow we'd have been worse off if (x)... Which is not necessarily true because it is actually unknown.
To me it is the ultimate cop out. The easy way. And we know where the wide road goes.
In the end it is not winning. Because what we are supposedly defending will be all gone.
And I will agree with @Smokin Joe on this. But you already knew that didn't you @roamer_1
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I will disagree - which is rare with you, Joe.
Lesser evil has consistently proven to move us the other way - Not toward liberty, but always away from it... It is definitively the shedding of principle things. That which is not insisted upon will not be defended in the next election. And so it goes. Soon it is all nothing but lip service.
And the mechanism of that is indeed mechanical. Lesser is the excuse, but it removes all consequence for no performance. We all 'know' somehow we'd have been worse off if (x)... Which is not necessarily true because it is actually unknown.
To me it is the ultimate cop out. The easy way. And we know where the wide road goes.
In the end it is not winning. Because what we are supposedly defending will be all gone.
Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.
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Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.
I see. A managed ascent as it were - different in kind from voting for the lesser evil...
Your kind heart is noted... But I can think of no instance in all of history where that has been accomplished. :shrug:
In the end, it is tyrants or the blood of patriots and tyrants. Liberty always comes the hard way.
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Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
--Claire Wolfe
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
--Claire Wolfe
I like that.... True
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
--Claire Wolfe
That's just about exactly where I am.
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I see. A managed ascent as it were - different in kind from voting for the lesser evil...
Your kind heart is noted... But I can think of no instance in all of history where that has been accomplished. :shrug:
In the end, it is tyrants or the blood of patriots and tyrants. Liberty always comes the hard way.
We have accomplished what was not accomplished before as a people, So I won't rule it out.
What we do need to do is stress the beauty of freedom, something many fear, instead of crave.
Why else would they endure the increasingly totalitarian environment in which we live? At some point those chains are no longer a convenience and can't be marketed as such.
Maybe it will have to reach the point where, once again, the slaves revolt, but such is increasingly difficult to do. We still have to halt the slide before we can ascend the slippery slope...
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
--Claire Wolfe
:beer: Great quote.
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I knew I could find a way to get y'all to agree on something important! wink777
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We have accomplished what was not accomplished before as a people, So I won't rule it out.
What we do need to do is stress the beauty of freedom, something many fear, instead of crave.
Why else would they endure the increasingly totalitarian environment in which we live? At some point those chains are no longer a convenience and can't be marketed as such.
Maybe it will have to reach the point where, once again, the slaves revolt, but such is increasingly difficult to do. We still have to halt the slide before we can ascend the slippery slope...
That requires a line in the sand. "This far and no further". Standing firm on principle .
That is not what is happening now.
Anything else is liberty slipping away.
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Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.
No sooner than you get the cyber words out of your mouth than proof emerges @Smokin Joe.
New High of 90% of Americans Satisfied With Personal Life (https://news.gallup.com/poll/284285/new-high-americans-satisfied-personal-life.aspx?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=o_social&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=)
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Listen to yourself!
Hey! What are you doing reading my posts? Didn't you complain about me posting to you?
Besides,today is Sunday. Shouldn't you be on your knees in a pile of gravel all day contemplating your sins?
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That requires a line in the sand. "This far and no further". Standing firm on principle .
That is not what is happening now.
Anything else is liberty slipping away.
We may have reached it in Virginia. The RKBA is that line, despite the raw encumbrances and infringements it has suffered. The threat is no longer just affecting a small minority of gun owners, but millions, and it has been clearly stated, repeatedly what the objective of the totalitarians is. Even so, It will take a new legislature and governor a full term to repeal all the crap and establish amnesties for those who otherwise were law abiding.
We will see what happens.
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Hey! What are you doing reading my posts? Didn't you complain about me posting to you?
Besides,today is Sunday. Shouldn't you be on your knees in a pile of gravel all day contemplating your sins?
Ahem! :chairbang:
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Ahem! :chairbang:
It made me laugh. Does that make me a bad person?
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We may have reached it in Virginia. The RKBA is that line, despite the raw encumbrances and infringements it has suffered. The threat is no longer just affecting a small minority of gun owners, but millions, and it has been clearly stated, repeatedly what the objective of the totalitarians is. Even so, It will take a new legislature and governor a full term to repeal all the crap and establish amnesties for those who otherwise were law abiding.
We will see what happens.
That's right. This could be a opportunity, if Virginians are worth their salt, which I dearly hope is true.
:0001:
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"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
--Claire Wolfe
That is a great and on the mark quote.
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It made me laugh. Does that make me a bad person?
I laughed too. Right before I picked up the chair... 888mouth
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That is a great and on the mark quote.
The argument isn't really about left vs right, or Dem vs Rep, but...is it too late to work within the system?
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The argument isn't really about left vs right, or Dem vs Rep, but...is it too late to work within the system?
Probably. Unless the Right actually stands for what it believes in.
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The argument isn't really about left vs right, or Dem vs Rep, but...is it too late to work within the system?
I don't know. I hope we can still work within the system. It's a good system that has led to the success of our country.
But the acrimony is a little unsettling. I fear there is no return at this point.
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I don't know. I hope we can still work within the system. It's a good system that has led to the success of our country.
But the acrimony is a little unsettling. I fear there is no return at this point.
It is up to the rat party to beat back its leftwing crazies. If they do not and soon there will be no going back.
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Of course her intentions are honorable.
Her intentions may be honorable, but her actions are not.
Character first and always. Because character will always out.
The foundation of character is 'truth' - truth to ourselves. The moment we are willing to abandon that truth in order to get our way, our character suffers. The ends do not justify the means, ever. This is one of the principle tenets that separate Conservatives from liberals.
The issue here is that Chosen Daughter is employing premises she knows to be false and injecting non-rational persuasion on matters she knows to have no relevance to this impeachment. And this is the crux of my criticism of her posts here on this thread. Chosen Daughter and I have been on the same side a vast majority of the time. We are both critical of Trump in matters of character, liberal positions, and past and current alliances. And our positions were always based in truth. Yet on this thread, there has been an abandonment of that principle.
Take Paul Manafort for example. Both of us have deeply criticized Manafort's past, his criminal behavior, and Trump's decision to pick from the Swamp to bring him on board for his campaign. But when it comes to this impeachment, Manafort is a non-issue. He has no bearing on this case and should not be used as a reason for the House Articles to be a basis for removing the President from office.
And then there's Biden. His actions in Ukraine are indelibly corrupt. Under his direction, taxpayer dollars were laundered through Ukraine directly into his son's bank account. So to argue that Biden's actions in firing Shokin were an act of moral purity - well, that just flies into the face of truth.
I respect Chosen Daughter's position on Trump, as I do Once-lers. Not any room with either for reflection or forgiveness, but that is their call, not mine. But I will not tolerate untruths from anyone, especially myself. There have been plenty of times I have posted statements of events that turned out not to be true. And each time, I made it a point to correct my mistake and reassess my opinion on the matter. Sort of like continuing to take personal inventory and promptly admitting when I am wrong. It's something that I strive for. Not always successful (or even aware), but it is how I have chosen to live nonetheless.
So when I see someone else make that mistake, I try to point it out to them to allow them the opportunity to correct it and reassess their position. With humility comes grace. In abundance. It is how character is built. And it is how we learn to accept someone who we find unacceptable.
You won't find me piling on calling her a shill for the DNC. But I do recognize DNC talking points when I hear them. And I find it troubling to hear someone here recite them in order to justify their dislike for Donald Trump.
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And unlike most of you I can't ignore the lies. You all want to pretend that Trump had nothing to do with his own "witch hunt". He didn't choose his Russian Oligarch Manafort by mistake.
What does Paul Manafort have to do with the impeachment articles?
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I pick neither.
(https://academiaplay.es/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/web-ner%C3%B3n4.jpg)
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(https://academiaplay.es/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/web-ner%C3%B3n4.jpg)
As long as he “feels†safe from the world in his mountain bunker, the rest of us can go to to H, E, double hockey sticks.
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As long as he “feels†safe from the world in his mountain bunker, the rest of us can go to to H, E, double hockey sticks.
Yup! @aligncare :thumbsup:
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Her intentions may be honorable, but her actions are not.
The foundation of character is 'truth' - truth to ourselves. The moment we are willing to abandon that truth in order to get our way, our character suffers. The ends do not justify the means, ever. This is one of the principle tenets that separate Conservatives from liberals.
The issue here is that Chosen Daughter is employing premises she knows to be false and injecting non-rational persuasion on matters she knows to have no relevance to this impeachment. And this is the crux of my criticism of her posts here on this thread. Chosen Daughter and I have been on the same side a vast majority of the time. We are both critical of Trump in matters of character, liberal positions, and past and current alliances. And our positions were always based in truth. Yet on this thread, there has been an abandonment of that principle.
Take Paul Manafort for example. Both of us have deeply criticized Manafort's past, his criminal behavior, and Trump's decision to pick from the Swamp to bring him on board for his campaign. But when it comes to this impeachment, Manafort is a non-issue. He has no bearing on this case and should not be used as a reason for the House Articles to be a basis for removing the President from office.
And then there's Biden. His actions in Ukraine are indelibly corrupt. Under his direction, taxpayer dollars were laundered through Ukraine directly into his son's bank account. So to argue that Biden's actions in firing Shokin were an act of moral purity - well, that just flies into the face of truth.
I respect Chosen Daughter's position on Trump, as I do Once-lers. Not any room with either for reflection or forgiveness, but that is their call, not mine. But I will not tolerate untruths from anyone, especially myself. There have been plenty of times I have posted statements of events that turned out not to be true. And each time, I made it a point to correct my mistake and reassess my opinion on the matter. Sort of like continuing to take personal inventory and promptly admitting when I am wrong. It's something that I strive for. Not always successful (or even aware), but it is how I have chosen to live nonetheless.
So when I see someone else make that mistake, I try to point it out to them to allow them the opportunity to correct it and reassess their position. With humility comes grace. In abundance. It is how character is built. And it is how we learn to accept someone who we find unacceptable.
You won't find me piling on calling her a shill for the DNC. But I do recognize DNC talking points when I hear them. And I find it troubling to hear someone here recite them in order to justify their dislike for Donald Trump.
I really think that what you posted here, you believe is true. I appreciate the kind words. I am always open to constructive criticism. But I did not post Democratic talking points. I posted what I believe is true also. I am not upset with any of the posting people did about me. Because I expect it. Truth is that Trump has known Manafort for years. He hired him, and then complains that liberals who also know who he is used it against him. So he sends Giuliani to dig dirt with the help of criminals Parnas and Fruman. I didn't post it because I thought it was false. If I thought it was false I wouldn't have posted it.
I think that Hunter Biden was involved in corruption. But Trump chose Rudy Giuliani and his band of criminals to dig dirt on other criminals. Because they are all criminals. I think that Trump could have investigated Biden's and done it through the Justice Department instead of asking the Ukraine which everyone knows is full of corruption. Rudy's friends are too. So one thing leads to another.
I am not sorry for posting the information, nor do I believe that it is false. I am feeling sorry that members of this community couldn't even stick up for Susan Collins after she voted to acquit and now is receiving death threats. Its all about poor Trump.
Mueller Report:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries (https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries)
I am so tired of being call a liberal. Trump deserves every bit of criticism I have given. I do not take any of it back.
You ask what Manafort had to do with the impeachment. It was Giuliani who was going to investigate after the Mueller report that led to the Biden thing. Unfortunately he used Parnas and Fugman to dig dirt.
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Truth is that Trump has known Manafort for years. He hired him . . .
Trump fired Manafort 1,070 days BEFORE his phone call with Zelinskyy. Still not seeing how Manafort has anything to do with the impeachment.
. . . and then complains that liberals who also know who he is used it against him.
Used what against him? Please be specific.
So he sends Giuliani to dig dirt with the help of criminals Parnas and Fruman. I didn't post it because I thought it was false. If I thought it was false I wouldn't have posted it.
Giuliani's trip to Ukraine occurred 134 days AFTER the Zelenskyy phone call. And the only ones here who are seeking help from the criminal Parnas are the Democrats.
As for digging up dirt on Hunter Biden, his expeditions into corruption had been ongoing for two decades. Here's a piece written by Michele Malkin back in 2014:
The Hunter Biden Chronicles (https://www.creators.com/read/michelle-malkin/10/14/the-hunter-biden-chronicles)
The Democrat corruption in Ukraine goes well beyond Biden. If you watch the Glen Beck video, you will see it. A huge indicator here is that Yovanovitch perjured herself under oath before the House Intelligence Committee. Here is a person directly involved with carrying out Biden's orders regarding huge influxes of US taxpayer cash, not just into Ukraine, but directly into the hands of the oligarch who was paying Hunter Biden. This is nothing less than straightforward embezzlement of US funds by the Vice President.
Trump could have investigated Biden's and done it through the Justice Department instead of asking the Ukraine which everyone knows is full of corruption.
You mean the same Justice Department that wiretapped his Presidential Campaign? The Justice Department that openly tried to sway a Presidential election? The same Justice Department that secured FISA warrants based on bogus information they knew not to be true? The same Justice Department that coordinated with the Clinton campaign, and then later tried to nullify the results? That Justice Department?
I am not sorry for posting the information, nor do I believe that it is false.
Again, you brought up Manafort. And again I ask you what Manafort had to do with this impeachment? And how can you defend Joe Biden getting Shokin fired and being replaced with another corrupt prosecutor who would protect his son?
I am feeling sorry that members of this community couldn't even stick up for Susan Collins after she voted to acquit and now is receiving death threats. Its all about poor Trump.
I applaud Collins. And I believe others here do as well. She rides the fence. But she also knows the one side where death threats come from.
Mueller Report:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries (https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries)
What does the Mueller Report have to do with Trump's impeachment? There was no mention of it in the impeachment articles, nor was any testimony offered that referenced it.
Mueller Report:
https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries (https://www.lawfareblog.com/full-text-mueller-reports-executive-summaries)
You ask what Manafort had to do with the impeachment. It was Giuliani who was going to investigate after the Mueller report that led to the Biden thing.
Which had absolutely positively NOTHING to do with the impeachment. Giuliani planned to travel to Kiev in March 2019 which was roughly 133 weeks after Manafort was fired. It was also after Mueller stated unequivocally that Manafort's testimony could not be trusted. And the Mueller report did not lead to the Biden thing since his dealings with Burisma were public knowledge. He joined the Burisma board shortly after being kicked out of the Navy for cocaine usage. Once on the board, he reaped the benefits of a money laundering scheme by the Obama Administration which cost US taxpayers $7.5 billion.
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Trump fired Manafort 1,070 days BEFORE his phone call with Zelinskyy. Still not seeing how Manafort has anything to do with the impeachment.
Used what against him? Please be specific.
I was already specific. I am not going to post the information again. But Manafort ran with Democrats as well as Trump. He knew him since early 1980's, and had worked with other campaigns. But it didn't end when Manafort was fired. Giuliani continued to pursue Manafort and some black ledger.
Giuliani's trip to Ukraine occurred 134 days AFTER the Zelenskyy phone call. And the only ones here who are seeking help from the criminal Parnas are the Democrats.
That isn't true. I guess if that is what you want to believe. Even though Trump denied he knew him, he did. It was anger over the "witch hunt" which led to Giuliani and his criminal friends to dig up the dirt on Hunter Biden.
As for digging up dirt on Hunter Biden, his expeditions into corruption had been ongoing for two decades. Here's a piece written by Michele Malkin back in 2014:
The Hunter Biden Chronicles (https://www.creators.com/read/michelle-malkin/10/14/the-hunter-biden-chronicles)
Oh, no doubt that Hunter Biden and creepy Joe were involved in corruption. Once again the way to investigate is Department of Justice, not Rudy Giuliani and his criminal friends.
The Democrat corruption in Ukraine goes well beyond Biden. If you watch the Glen Beck video, you will see it. A huge indicator here is that Yovanovitch perjured herself under oath before the House Intelligence Committee. Here is a person directly involved with carrying out Biden's orders regarding huge influxes of US taxpayer cash, not just into Ukraine, but directly into the hands of the oligarch who was paying Hunter Biden. This is nothing less than straightforward embezzlement of US funds by the Vice President.
Which should be investigated. Proper channels that would not have led to impeachment proceedings
You mean the same Justice Department that wiretapped his Presidential Campaign? The Justice Department that openly tried to sway a Presidential election? The same Justice Department that secured FISA warrants based on bogus information they knew not to be true? The same Justice Department that coordinated with the Clinton campaign, and then later tried to nullify the results? That Justice Department?
Mueller report did not exonerate Trump. Didn't find him guilty but didn't exonerate him either. This is where we really do differ. I believe that Putin did work with Trump to get him elected. He never got the exoneration that he wanted. And the "witch hunt' worked for him at his rallies. He is very good at the poor me, and you must defend me. Yep they spied on him. But he did have ties and was meeting with the Russians.
Which had absolutely positively NOTHING to do with the impeachment. Giuliani planned to travel to Kiev in March 2019 which was roughly 133 weeks after Manafort was fired. It was also after Mueller stated unequivocally that Manafort's testimony could not be trusted. And the Mueller report did not lead to the Biden thing since his dealings with Burisma were public knowledge. He joined the Burisma board shortly after being kicked out of the Navy for cocaine usage. Once on the board, he reaped the benefits of a money laundering scheme by the Obama Administration which cost US taxpayers $7.5 billion.
I hope Trump could go through the proper channels to prosecute the Biden's for their crimes. It would have never happened through Rudy Giuliani.
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Giuliani's trip to Ukraine occurred 134 days AFTER the Zelenskyy phone call. And the only ones here who are seeking help from the criminal Parnas are the Democrats.
That isn't true.
Which part? The Giuliani trip, or the part about Democrats wanting Parnas to testify in order to remove Trump from office?
This is nothing less than straightforward embezzlement of US funds by the Vice President.
Which should be investigated.
By whom? Our corrupt Justice Department? Or maybe by Adam Schiff who was already in bed with Russian businessman Igor Pasternak and who was already collaborating with Ukrainians to dig up dirt on Trump to use against him in the 2020 election.
Proper channels that would not have led to impeachment proceedings
Impeachment was inevitable. Proper channels were discarded by the Democrats a very long time ago. Because proper channels would have led to the arrest of Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Adam Schiff, Marie Yovanovitch, James Comey, John Brennan, etc. You are being intentionally naive to suggest that the same Justice Department who illegally wiretapped the Trump Campaign could be trusted to open an investigation against the very people who committed these crimes.
Mueller report did not exonerate Trump. Didn't find him guilty but didn't exonerate him either. This is where we really do differ.
Uh, no. The Mueller report has no bearing on any of this. It is completely irrelevant to the impeachment. Where we differ is that you keep bringing it up as a diversion for your unwillingness to admit your complete lack of veracity regarding your claims, while I continue to point out the irrelevance of it in regards to the impeachment. Trump wasn't impeached for the Mueller Report.
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That isn't true.
Which part? The Giuliani trip, or the part about Democrats wanting Parnas to testify in order to remove Trump from office?
Which should be investigated.
By whom? Our corrupt Justice Department? Or maybe by Adam Schiff who was already in bed with Russian businessman Igor Pasternak and who was already collaborating with Ukrainians to dig up dirt on Trump to use against him in the 2020 election.
Impeachment was inevitable. Proper channels were discarded by the Democrats a very long time ago. Because proper channels would have led to the arrest of Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Adam Schiff, Marie Yovanovitch, James Comey, John Brennan, etc. You are being intentionally naive to suggest that the same Justice Department who illegally wiretapped the Trump Campaign could be trusted to open an investigation against the very people who committed these crimes.
Uh, no. The Mueller report has no bearing on any of this. It is completely irrelevant to the impeachment. Where we differ is that you keep bringing it up as a diversion for your unwillingness to admit your complete lack of veracity regarding your claims, while I continue to point out the irrelevance of it in regards to the impeachment. Trump wasn't impeached for the Mueller Report.
I am not going to address this line by line. Perhaps we cannot agree. Just like Manafort was known in Democratic circles he also landed on the Trump campaign. Not as an accident, but because Trump had known him for years. Democrats knew him too, and they knew also who he was connected to, which was people within the Russian government. As I said Rudy didn't stop visiting Manafort when he was fired. He continued to pursue him even in prison.
If Trump couldn't trust his own AG and Justice Department to investigate Hunter Biden then he shouldn't have. Because the people who Giuliani is getting his information from is the corrupt Ukrainian AG, Parnas, Fruman and Manafort. All with ties to Russia. And perhaps this article can put this whole discussion to bed.
Graham says new DOJ "process" will let Giuliani provide info on the Bidens
See article on: www.cbsnews.com (http://www.cbsnews.com) Melissa Quinn 9 hrs ago
Washington — Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the Justice Department has created a process through which Rudy Giuliani, President Trump's personal attorney, can submit information he collected in Ukraine to be vetted.
"The Department of Justice is receiving information coming out of the Ukraine from Rudy," Graham, of South Carolina, said on "Face the Nation." "[Attorney General Bill Barr] told me that they have created a process that Rudy could give information and they would see if it's verified."
Graham, a key ally of the president's, said he spoke with Barr on Sunday morning, as well as Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr, a North Carolina Republican. He said they urged him to "take very cautiously" information from Ukraine against Republicans and Democrats.
"If Rudy Giuliani has any information coming out of the Ukraine, he needs to turn it over to the Department of Justice because it could be Russian propaganda," Graham said, making a stern plea for Giuliani and all U.S. politicians to be wary of that information because it "may be backed by Russian misinformation."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/graham-says-new-doj-process-will-let-giuliani-provide-info-on-the-bidens/ar-BBZOHFX?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/graham-says-new-doj-process-will-let-giuliani-provide-info-on-the-bidens/ar-BBZOHFX?ocid=spartanntp)
Because you don't ask foreign governments to investigate. You have to make sure that the information you are getting is true, and not just Russian propaganda. It was absolutely wrong for Trump to ask Ukraine and the former Ukrainian AG was corrupt. This isn't something you ask your personal lawyer to do on his own. Stupid. And even now with this "new" process it doesn't seem right. Giuliani was working with Parnas and Fruman and the fired Ukrainian AG. If they want to investigate they should do it through their own DOJ investigation using witnesses that aren't Rudy's shady criminal friends.
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Her intentions may be honorable, but her actions are not.
I don't think that's right.
The foundation of character is 'truth' - truth to ourselves. The moment we are willing to abandon that truth in order to get our way, our character suffers. The ends do not justify the means, ever. This is one of the principle tenets that separate Conservatives from liberals.
That's right. But one has to allow for a difference in how the evidence is weighted. Not in determining truth, which inevitably cuts through interpretation, but where opinion intersects the interpretation of that evidence. Good people can differ, as it were.
The issue here is that Chosen Daughter is employing premises she knows to be false and injecting non-rational persuasion on matters she knows to have no relevance to this impeachment. And this is the crux of my criticism of her posts here on this thread.
Mind reading, I think. No offense meant.
Chosen Daughter and I have been on the same side a vast majority of the time. We are both critical of Trump in matters of character, liberal positions, and past and current alliances. And our positions were always based in truth. Yet on this thread, there has been an abandonment of that principle.
That infers intent that may well not be there. Knowing @Chosen Daughter as I do, I would say the benefit of that doubt should go to her. I have never known Chosen to abandon principle any more than I have known you to.
Take Paul Manafort for example. Both of us have deeply criticized Manafort's past, his criminal behavior, and Trump's decision to pick from the Swamp to bring him on board for his campaign. But when it comes to this impeachment, Manafort is a non-issue. He has no bearing on this case and should not be used as a reason for the House Articles to be a basis for removing the President from office.
Birds of a feather, and all that... I agree with Chosen on that in spirit anyway. I don't think the evidence exists to warrent impeachment, but I think she's right otherwise...
And then there's Biden. His actions in Ukraine are indelibly corrupt. Under his direction, taxpayer dollars were laundered through Ukraine directly into his son's bank account. So to argue that Biden's actions in firing Shokin were an act of moral purity - well, that just flies into the face of truth.
To be fair, I can't offer an opinion one way or the other on that. Too much he-said-she-said to figure it out for sure. I think Biden is in it up to his lips, as are others. But then I think Tump is in it up to his lips too, one way or another, and figuring which mafia boss to favor when relying on corrupt LEOs for evidence is more sh*t that I want to ingest. I say they're all bastards and we'd be best to be rid of all of em. :whistle:
But that requires evidence or the will of the people to throw the bastards out, either of which is in short supply.
I respect Chosen Daughter's position on Trump, as I do Once-lers. Not any room with either for reflection or forgiveness, but that is their call, not mine.
The thing I value most in both Chosen and @Once-Ler is that both are willing to investigate dem charges with an open mind. I would include you in that set too. I think that's dang healthy, rather than just running to Brightfart for talking points. Reminds me of FR in the old days.
But I will not tolerate untruths from anyone, especially myself. There have been plenty of times I have posted statements of events that turned out not to be true. And each time, I made it a point to correct my mistake and reassess my opinion on the matter. Sort of like continuing to take personal inventory and promptly admitting when I am wrong. It's something that I strive for. Not always successful (or even aware), but it is how I have chosen to live nonetheless.
So when I see someone else make that mistake, I try to point it out to them to allow them the opportunity to correct it and reassess their position. With humility comes grace. In abundance. It is how character is built. And it is how we learn to accept someone who we find unacceptable.
That's right. Steel sharpens steel.
You won't find me piling on calling her a shill for the DNC. But I do recognize DNC talking points when I hear them. And I find it troubling to hear someone here recite them in order to justify their dislike for Donald Trump.
I think those Dem talking points need to be raised and tested. After all, it is the opposition that will dig and accuse. Tump fans sure as hell won't.
But credit is due you too in not calling her a shill because of it.
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As long as he “feels†safe from the world in his mountain bunker, the rest of us can go to to H, E, double hockey sticks.
If that were true, then logic would dictate a bunker of your own. But it isn't true.
The reason I AM safe from the world is foremost because my destiny lies beyond it. In that, fear does not guide me.
And secondly, I have spent my life heeding ancient truth - Principle things, to the degree I can find them out.
It makes no sense at all to live contrary to those truths, or to support those who preach other than those truths, because history attests to the doom that path brings. Over and over again.
So truth runs opposite to the world - contrary to popularity. In the end, that is why I am in my
'mountain bunker', placed here by my father's hand so long ago. He too sought principle things and recognized the paucity of modern life, opting to get his family out of its way... In that, my 'mountain bunker' is an effect rather than the cause.
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@Hoodat
I am not posting stuff that I know is not true. The reason that Manafort matters is that he is Russia's guy. He is also Democrats guy. This guy has been involved with all of them. And as much as Trump wanted us to think that it was a "witch hunt". It was probably more like jealousy. Would they have spied on him had it not been for Manafort? No because Hillary probably just wanted him to work for her instead and she was well aware that he was Russia connected. Well aware of what Manafort was doing for Trump.
And the reason that it didn't stop there is that Giuliani continued to use Russia with his visits to prison to see Manafort. Trying to get some black ledger. His Russian criminal friends parnas and Fruman also connected to Russia. And it isn't any wonder that Lindsey Graham is out there saying that they are providing a way for information that Giuliani has. That it has to be vetted because it could be Russian propaganda.
Russia has had their heads so far up the butts of American politicians and it really exploded with Trumps campaign and presidency. And Trump is the one that is not truthful. Not me. Manafort matters because Rudy "investigating" has been his attempt to turn the tables away from Trump and his ties to Russia. And he used his criminal friends to do it.
It is true that all these people have been found guilty and are going to prison or are there already. The ends do not justify the means. Trump has been very successful in his lies that this was a "witch hunt". Well perhaps it was in his own eyes. Maybe he didn't see anything wrong with it because it is the norm. And Manafort has been everyone's man, and everyone's Russian friend.
You don't think I have struggled with why I don't support Trump? I recognize his accomplishments. Jobs, and efforts to reduce illegal immigration. To change social benefits policy that attract illegal immigration or dependency on the state. I do appreciate those. But Trump is a liar who will do anything and use anyone including criminals and foreign governments (Russia) to hold onto his power. Power should not be in the Russian government.
The Mueller report is also important because he downplayed his own part in it. He wasn't exonerated and it isn't over. Giuliani is still going to criminals to dig his dirt. And soon, hopefully he will be exposed for who he is also.
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If that were true, then logic would dictate a bunker of your own. But it isn't true.
The reason I AM safe from the world is foremost because my destiny lies beyond it. In that, fear does not guide me.
And secondly, I have spent my life heeding ancient truth - Principle things, to the degree I can find them out.
It makes no sense at all to live contrary to those truths, or to support those who preach other than those truths, because history attests to the doom that path brings. Over and over again.
So truth runs opposite to the world - contrary to popularity. In the end, that is why I am in my
'mountain bunker', placed here by my father's hand so long ago. He too sought principle things and recognized the paucity of modern life, opting to get his family out of its way... In that, my 'mountain bunker' is an effect rather than the cause.
888high58888
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If that were true, then logic would dictate a bunker of your own. But it isn't true.
The reason I AM safe from the world is foremost because my destiny lies beyond it. In that, fear does not guide me.
And secondly, I have spent my life heeding ancient truth - Principle things, to the degree I can find them out.
It makes no sense at all to live contrary to those truths, or to support those who preach other than those truths, because history attests to the doom that path brings. Over and over again.
So truth runs opposite to the world - contrary to popularity. In the end, that is why I am in my 'mountain bunker', placed here by my father's hand so long ago. He too sought principle things and recognized the paucity of modern life, opting to get his family out of its way... In that, my 'mountain bunker' is an effect rather than the cause.
(https://www.libertynation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Virtue-signaling-meme.jpg)
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(https://www.libertynation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Virtue-signaling-meme.jpg)
ROFL! He sure laid it on thick, didn't he? :laugh:
....God luv 'em.
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ROFL! He sure laid it on thick, didn't he? :laugh:
....God luv 'em.
The post should come with a pair of hip boots. 88devil
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(https://www.libertynation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Virtue-signaling-meme.jpg)
@Right_in_Virginia
LOL!
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The post should come with a pair of hip boots. 88devil
@Right_in_Virginia
Well,this IS America,and he IS free to believe anything he wants to believe as long as it causes no actual harm to anyone else,and I have no doubt at all that he really and truly believes it.
The meme (right word?) IS spot-on,though! All it needs is a You Tube video of a "superiority dance" to go with it.
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(https://www.libertynation.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Virtue-signaling-meme.jpg)
You sure do like liberal memes RIV.
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Good Lord...I will never understand why y’all get your knickers in such a twist over someone ON YOUR SIDE who holds a different opinion. Every single post simply must be answered by the Squad of the True Believers TM. It’s mind boggling.
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@Right_in_Virginia
Well,this IS America,and he IS free to believe anything he wants to believe as long as it causes no actual harm to anyone else,and I have no doubt at all that he really and truly believes it.
The meme (right word?) IS spot-on,though! All it needs is a You Tube video of a "superiority dance" to go with it.
Bullcrap. I ain't superior to anybody @sneakypete . Had you any inking of the principles of social conservatism, you'd know that outright.
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Good Lord...I will never understand why y’all get your knickers in such a twist over someone ON YOUR SIDE who holds a different opinion. Every single post simply must be answered by the Squad of the True Believers TM. It’s mind boggling.
@Axeslinger difference of thought will not be tolerated. There is only one correct way to think.
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Bullcrap. I ain't superior to anybody @sneakypete . Had you any inking of the principles of social conservatism, you'd know that outright.
@roamer_1
THE IRONY! ROFLMAO!
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@Hoodat
I am not posting stuff that I know is not true. The reason that Manafort matters is that he is Russia's guy. He is also Democrats guy. This guy has been involved with all of them. . . .
. . . The Mueller report is also important because he downplayed his own part in it.
Yet again, what does Manafort or the Mueller report have to do with the articles of impeachment against Donald Trump? The articles make no mention of either.
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@roamer_1
THE IRONY! ROFLMAO!
@sneakypete
You mean your pompous attempts to shame me into sacrificing principles from your high horse?
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Now y'all are just sniping at one another. Thread locked for a few hours or so...
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Good Lord...I will never understand why y’all get your knickers in such a twist over someone ON YOUR SIDE who holds a different opinion. Every single post simply must be answered by the Squad of the True Believers TM. It’s mind boggling.
Nice try.
That's not at all, what's happening here.
At this point, we thank @mystery-ak for giving you a place to tell us what you think of POTUS Trump
We're thankful that some here tell us that we're going in the same direction as if Hillary Clinton had won in '16.
...that if this is 'Conservatism', no thanks...not my circus, not my monkey. Not his fight.
@Axeslinger
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@sneakypete
You mean your pompous attempts to shame me into sacrificing principles from your high horse?
@roamer_1
You clearly have me confused with someone else because I don't give a damn if you are shamed or proud. I ain't your daddy.
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Nice try.
That's not at all, what's happening here.
At this point, we thank @mystery-ak for giving you a place to tell us what you think of POTUS Trump
We're thankful that some here tell us that we're going in the same direction as if Hillary Clinton had won in '16.
...that if this is 'Conservatism', no thanks...not my circus, not my monkey. Not his fight.
@Axeslinger
If he's the guy who throws a serious monkey wrench into the totalitarian works, I'm all for it. I have come to the conclusion that there will be different roles to play if the Republic is to be recovered, not the least of which is stopping the juggernaut of Globalism, be it socialist or corporatist, but especially the "Socialists'.
We have a long way to go on a recriprocal heading from where we found ourselves at the end of the Obama Administration, but we have to stop sliding down the slippery slope to totalitarianism first.
There will be room for plenty of astute, seemingly more civilized voices, but for now, the gloves have to be off.
I don't have to like it. I don't like that things in this country have reached that point, and they may even get worse before they get better, but I don't see any Marquess de Queensbury compliant way to get the job done.
The media have incited the indoctrinated rabble to the verge of riot, and if it reaches that, there will be blood in the streets (which is why the strident attempts to remove tactically meaningful firearms from private hands).
It would be nice to avoid such bloodshed, and this may be the only way which will work.
Through it all, I must remember that The Almighty knows what He is doing. He has often used the imperfect to carry out His plans.
If we keep in mind those Conservative principles (many decry as impractical or archaic) across the board, keep them as a goal and strive for them, we may yet recover.
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If he's the guy who throws a serious monkey wrench into the totalitarian works, I'm all for it. I have come to the conclusion that there will be different roles to play if the Republic is to be recovered, not the least of which is stopping the juggernaut of Globalism, be it socialist or corporatist, but especially the "Socialists'.
We have a long way to go on a recriprocal heading from where we found ourselves at the end of the Obama Administration, but we have to stop sliding down the slippery slope to totalitarianism first.
There will be room for plenty of astute, seemingly more civilized voices, but for now, the gloves have to be off.
I don't have to like it. I don't like that things in this country have reached that point, and they may even get worse before they get better, but I don't see any Marquess de Queensbury compliant way to get the job done.
The media have incited the indoctrinated rabble to the verge of riot, and if it reaches that, there will be blood in the streets (which is why the strident attempts to remove tactically meaningful firearms from private hands).
It would be nice to avoid such bloodshed, and this may be the only way which will work.
Through it all, I must remember that The Almighty knows what He is doing. He has often used the imperfect to carry out His plans.
If we keep in mind those Conservative principles (many decry as impractical or archaic) across the board, keep them as a goal and strive for them, we may yet recover.
Well said @Smokin Joe .
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Yet again, what does Manafort or the Mueller report have to do with the articles of impeachment against Donald Trump? The articles make no mention of either.
This is the last time I am posting about this. Manafort has everything to do with it.
Recommend reading the entire thing. But I know you want to skip from Manafort to the call and impeachment. Its all connected but subsections Mobilization and Impeachment might be what you are looking for.
It all started with Manafort and the campaign.
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/how-trumps-ukraine-pressure-campaign-grew-out-of-manaforts-downfall
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This is the last time I am posting about this.
Vielen dank.
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" At some point, you just have to let go of what you thought SHOULD happen, and live in what IS happening."
..... some woman on Facebook. happy77
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Vielen dank.
Ihr Willkommen *****rollingeyes*****