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General Category => World News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 12:55:25 am

Title: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 12:55:25 am
Post your articles here
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:12:45 am

Suzanne Lynch
‏Verified account @suzannelynch1
43s44 seconds ago

#Trump sitting beside #KimJongUn is asked how he feels about summit ‘It is my honour.. we will have a terrific relationship
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:13:58 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc_vHNUcAEy69-.jpg)

New York Post
‏Verified account @nypost
2m2 minutes ago

Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un meet in Singapore for historic summit https://nyp.st
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:15:44 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc_h4PW4AANWmo.jpg)

Breaking News
‏Verified account @BreakingNews
5m5 minutes ago

"It's my honor -- we will have a terrific relationship, I have no doubt," President Trump says as he sits down with Kim Jong Un in Singapore.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 01:30:44 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc8shQWkAE7eZO.jpg)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc9SIWVMAAsEzc.jpg)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc-0lSVQAAmi-R.jpg)



Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 01:32:18 am
Dennis Rodman on CNN wearing a MAGA hat!    :silly:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:33:11 am
Can we keep the photo-op stuff to a minimum and save the space for the real stuff. 

I’m interested to see if Trump can actually pull something off, and I’d rather be reading about the important stuff than scrolling through pictures that are only intended to glorify one or both of the chappies. 

For my part, I promise no snide comments about Trump from me on this thread. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 01:34:29 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc-0lSVQAAmi-R.jpg)


The body language folks would say that by keeping his hand at his side, Kim is displaying power and Trump is yielding it.  No doubt that's how it will be played back home in DPRK if things go badly.  But I think it's good for Trump to be so obviously open and welcoming, even if some would criticize it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 01:36:02 am
Tears, hope and skepticism in LA’s Korea town as the historic Trump Kim summit unfolds.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc_pELX4AAGgLn.jpg)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dfc_pE9WAAEIcqd.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:36:17 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdD7MBU8AAlNFc.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdEm_vW4AEo-_T.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 01:38:08 am
US Delegation greets North Korean Delegation and watch POTUS and Leader Kim Jong Un meet for first time.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdDtNrXcAAGGGF.jpg)

This is a pretty amazing sight ..

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdDtSWWAAEyCyP.jpg)




Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 12, 2018, 01:41:22 am
Can we keep the photo-op stuff to a minimum and save the space for the real stuff. 

I’m interested to see if Trump can actually pull something off, and I’d rather be reading about the important stuff than scrolling through pictures that are only intended to glorify one or both of the chappies. 

For my part, I promise no snide comments about Trump from me on this thread.

Thank you, O.  For all of us, I'm hoping he can pull this off.  And, I'd like to rub leftists' faces in it. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 12, 2018, 01:43:01 am
....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdEm_vW4AEo-_T.jpg)

I love the CNN guy's face!  Priceless.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 01:43:45 am
 @ThomasWictor 8m8 minutes ago

THERE!  Koreans never do this ....

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdBgjpUEAACWuE.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 01:44:48 am
Can we keep the photo-op stuff to a minimum

 :seeya:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: WingNot on June 12, 2018, 01:49:12 am
Can we keep the photo-op stuff to a minimum and save the space for the real stuff. 



(https://78.media.tumblr.com/ed77759db5bb7671371c44d3841a08e3/tumblr_nsvdfbfZAg1spdt2jo1_r1_500.gif)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 12, 2018, 01:55:08 am
Can we keep the photo-op stuff to a minimum and save the space for the real stuff. 

I’m interested to see if Trump can actually pull something off, and I’d rather be reading about the important stuff than scrolling through pictures that are only intended to glorify one or both of the chappies. 

For my part, I promise no snide comments about Trump from me on this thread.

I agree. And thank you O.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 12, 2018, 01:57:08 am


Oh! I know what he's saying!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 01:57:33 am
I like the photos, after all, this is the closest thing to:

(https://39uhx2trii4zt1im-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/640px-Nixon_and_Zhou_toast-640x330.jpg)

Not much like Khrushchev coming to America, but that was pretty interesting too (with the Eisenhowers).

(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/2b8670b/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fd1%2F96%2F55ed9bca4be3b9a92afe4b7759c8%2Fwebp.net-resizeimage%20%2835%29.jpg)

Like it or not, this is historic.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: endicom on June 12, 2018, 01:58:47 am
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/ed77759db5bb7671371c44d3841a08e3/tumblr_nsvdfbfZAg1spdt2jo1_r1_500.gif)


Do you have one of Ashley Judd saying, "I'm sick of it! Sick of it!"? That could be useful in this forum.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: WingNot on June 12, 2018, 01:59:30 am
Oh! I know what he's saying!

 :beer:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 02:00:16 am
Breaking News
‏Verified account @BreakingNews
5m5 minutes ago

"It's my honor -- we will have a terrific relationship, I have no doubt," President Trump says as he sits down with Kim Jong Un in Singapore.


“It’s a one-time shot and I think it’s going to work out very well,” Trump said, though he also indicated that the summit may only be a starting point, saying it “may not work out. There’s a good chance it won’t work out. There’s probably an even better chance that it will take a period of time, it’ll be a process.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/09/donald-trump-kim-jong-un-north-korea-g7-summit-canada (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/09/donald-trump-kim-jong-un-north-korea-g7-summit-canada)


We'll have a great relationship.  It will work out very well.  There's a good chance it won't work out.  It'll take a lot of time to work out.  Or not.  We'll see.

A dervish envies this spinning.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 02:01:11 am
I like the visuals. A picture is worth a thousand words, someone once said.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 12, 2018, 02:03:38 am
I do hope and pray for a successful outcome.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 02:12:17 am
I do hope and pray for a successful outcome.

Anyone who isn't doing exactly that  has a screw, or several,  loose!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:19:01 am
The daddy Kim Jong Il was the bad one and probably the one before that. It kind of seems like Little Kim is just caught up in carrying out the tradition of tyrants.  In Switzerland where he grew up some at least, it called him a punk like a punk rocker type or something.
Quote
4. Kim Jong-il is Blamed for a “Devastating Famine” that Killed an Estimated 3 Million People & His Brother Was Executed for Treason
https://heavy.com/news/2018/06/kim-jong-un-wife-family/

Still, Little Kim has killed, unforgivable.  Well, we'll see, human rights organizations have been speaking up too in the past few days about NK.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 02:20:25 am
Anyone who isn't doing exactly that  has a screw, or several,  loose!

QFT
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 02:23:47 am
I can't help but think of Otto's parents tonight.. 8888crybaby
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:27:37 am
Quote
Rodman, who is wearing a Make America Great Again cap, said Donald Trump had reached out to him.

    Donald Trump reached out, he called his secretary, she called me and said, ‘Donald Trump is so proud of you, he likes you a lot.’ And that means a lot. I don’t want to take any credit, we can all take credit and I’m just so glad this is happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jun/12/trump-kim-summit-meeting-singapore-us-president-north-korea-kim-jong-un- (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jun/12/trump-kim-summit-meeting-singapore-us-president-north-korea-kim-jong-un-)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 12, 2018, 02:32:25 am
I can't help but think of Otto's parents tonight.. 8888crybaby

Yes, indeed. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: truth_seeker on June 12, 2018, 02:40:52 am
I like the visuals. A picture is worth a thousand words, someone once said.

"Every Picture Tells a Story" R. Stewart.
Reagan with Gorby, the Berlin Wall being ttoppled by young Germans.

Today is notable, at least to Cold War folks who spent their youthful years in fear of nuclear war.

Trump needs to do nothing beyond point to the Japanese, Germans and So. Koreans as examples of the prosperity coming from being at peace and even allied with the USA.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:43:34 am
Commentary:

Quote
Kyle Orton
‏Verified account @KyleWOrton
38m38 minutes ago

Trump said he had an "excellent relationship" with Kim Jong-un after their meeting.

This is the kind of excess Nixon showed in China and Carter with Tito.

Kim is a murderer presiding over a slave colony. Coming to an accord to avoid war is one thing. Should be restraint in it.

Quote
Kyle Orton
‏Verified account @KyleWOrton

Kyle Orton Retweeted Noah Rothman

This is revolting. The Wilsonian temptation has to be avoided, but it doesn't do to pretend #DPRK is just one dictatorship among many. It really is in a class with few others. Added to its relative weakness, this symbolism of equality is stomach churning.

https://twitter.com/KyleWOrton/status/1006362159281070082

True but what do we do? Wipe them off the face of the earth?

I see Japan's President Abe too, said he's working to keep his country at the forefront of discussions.  On the radar.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 02:45:04 am
Reagan with Gorby, the Berlin Wall being ttoppled by young Germans.

Today is notable, at least to Cold War folks who spent their youthful years in fear of nuclear war.

Trump needs to do nothing beyond point to the Japanese, Germans and So. Koreans as examples of the prosperity coming from being at peace and even allied with the USA.

@truth_seeker

It's very good to see you posting again!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:59:55 am
Bolton is there, closest on the right, almost out of the picture.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdJ2HCUYAI9rbq.jpg)

And General Kelly.

https://twitter.com/michaelcrowley
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: SZonian on June 12, 2018, 03:21:11 am
I do hope and pray for a successful outcome.
@Lando Lincoln

 :amen:

Sometimes a true leader needs to play a game of sorts and let the tyrant believe they're still in charge.  It costs nothing to give up "visuals" if in the end, an accord is reached.  It's long past time for NK to join the rest of the world in this 21st century and move on past a failed ideology.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 03:51:36 am
Sometimes a true leader needs to play a game of sorts and let the tyrant believe they're still in charge.  It costs nothing to give up "visuals" if in the end, an accord is reached.  It's long past time for NK to join the rest of the world in this 21st century and move on past a failed ideology.


Boy, this sure sounds familiar.

October 24, 2000

Only a few months ago, communist North Korea's missile programme and alleged nuclear weapons ambitions were being cited as the prime justification for the US embarking on a hugely expensive and controversial anti-missile defence system.

Now, Mr Albright is clinking glasses with Kim Jong-il and applauding a mass performance of synchronised praise for the Dear Leader, as he is officially called.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm)


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/SPi7FsQf479r2TP3cIClSg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0xODA7dz0zMDA-/http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/985000/images/_988725_kkimandalbright300.jpg.cf.jpg)

At least we still have the great visuals.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 03:59:29 am
US Delegation greets North Korean Delegation and watch POTUS and Leader Kim Jong Un meet for first time.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfdDtNrXcAAGGGF.jpg)

This is a pretty amazing sight ..

I'll say. Where the hell did those NORK's find a Today's Man to get so many ill fitting suits? Jesus Christ they are a shambles.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 12, 2018, 04:11:19 am
I'll say. Where the hell did those NORK's find a Today's Man to get so many ill fitting suits? Jesus Christ they are a shambles.

Shhh....do NOT tell anyone I said this, but I think Ted Cruz may have donated some of his suits from the 2016 campaign.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 04:14:13 am
Shhh....do NOT tell anyone I said this, but I think Ted Cruz may have donated some of his suits from the 2016 campaign.

Ah shit. You said the "C" word. Now that poster, who's name escapes me right now, will spin this thread off the rails.

BTW yes. Ted does dress like he hits funeral homes and grabs suits off of the corpses after the services.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 12, 2018, 04:15:33 am
Ah shit. You said the "C" word. Now that poster, who's name escapes me right now, will spin this thread off the rails.

BTW yes. Ted does dress like he hits funeral homes and grabs suits off of the corpses after the services.

No way, I never say the "C" word.  It's bleeped out.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 04:19:26 am
No way, I never say the "C" word.  It's bleeped out.

That's not true. I use Ted Bleep name all the time here without any censoring.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 04:39:26 am
This is a pretty amazing sight ..


Yeah, when I was walking the Saddle Pass Trail through the Badlands last week, I thought that was pretty amazing until I saw this entourage of yes men to a despot, with one wearing a Jiffy Pop hat.  Can't beat that.      *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: kevindavis007 on June 12, 2018, 11:15:50 am
Sounds like Trump screw our allies and helped. 🇨🇳 And 🇷🇺 with this deal.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 11:18:45 am
Reagan with Gorby, the Berlin Wall being ttoppled by young Germans.

Today is notable, at least to Cold War folks who spent their youthful years in fear of nuclear war.

Trump needs to do nothing beyond point to the Japanese, Germans and So. Koreans as examples of the prosperity coming from being at peace and even allied with the USA.

Glad you're back posting, @truth_seeker !    888high58888
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 11:23:00 am
I can't help but think of Otto's parents tonight.. 8888crybaby

Fox @ Friends, this morning, just spent a segment including a video of Pres. Trump, where he says that Otto Warmbier's death was the impetus to get where we are today with North Korea.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE TRHEAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 11:31:26 am
Glad you're back posting, @truth_seeker !    888high58888

I’ll second that. There should always be at least one person around here with a broad enough perspective to seek truth. @DCPatriot @truth_seeker
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 11:49:51 am
So, did anything actually happen, or is this whole thread fluff?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 12:01:46 pm
So, did anything actually happen, or is this whole thread fluff?

President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un signed a document on Tuesday stating that Pyongyang would work toward "complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula"— a historic concession, which was one of the requirements the U.S. sought at the summit in Singapore.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/12/trump-kim-jong-un-sign-comprehensive-document-vague-on-specific-details.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/12/trump-kim-jong-un-sign-comprehensive-document-vague-on-specific-details.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 12:04:08 pm
So, did anything actually happen, or is this whole thread fluff?


They signed an agreement that says little and means less.


Despite the optimism Trump and Kim expressed at their meeting, the agreement they signed contained few specifics of how the pair would move toward peace. There was no description of which programs North Korea would have to cease to be considered denuclearized — or how its cooperation would be monitored. North Korea and the U.S. do not have formal diplomatic relations. While the statement promised that there would be “new” relations between the two countries, it did not say at what level or provide any information about any potential withdrawal of the stiff sanctions the U.S. has imposed on North Korea.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kim-sign-joint-statement-promising-complete-denuclearization-korean-peninsula-075453594.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-kim-sign-joint-statement-promising-complete-denuclearization-korean-peninsula-075453594.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 12:05:11 pm
(https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2018/06/12/Photos/ZH/MW-GK728_trump__20180612030552_ZH.jpg?uuid=0b4a5f98-6e0f-11e8-b030-ac162d7bc1f7)

North Korea summit: Trump-Kim deal criticized for lack of nuclear detail
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-kim-sign-document-to-wrap-up-korean-summit-2018-06-12 (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-kim-sign-document-to-wrap-up-korean-summit-2018-06-12)

...After hours of unprecedented closed-door talks, the two sides pledged to develop a new relationship and to continue high-level negotiations as soon as possible. The agreement also calls for both sides to recover the remains of prisoners of war and those missing in action in the Korean War, and to repatriate these.

However, while Trump described the declaration as “very important” and “pretty comprehensive,” it does not give particulars of timing or checks on whether North Korea is making changes to its nuclear program.

It does not use the words “irreversible” and “verifiable” to describe the denuclearization process, two things the U.S. has long pursued. It appears to echo an agreement signed by North Korea and South Korea in April, according to a Wall Street Journal report....

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 12:08:19 pm
Joint Statement of President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea at the Singapore Summit
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/joint-statement-president-donald-j-trump-united-states-america-chairman-kim-jong-un-democratic-peoples-republic-korea-singapore-summit/ (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/joint-statement-president-donald-j-trump-united-states-america-chairman-kim-jong-un-democratic-peoples-republic-korea-singapore-summit/)
June 12, 2018

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) held a first, historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive, in-depth, and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new U.S.–DPRK relations and the building of a lasting and robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.  President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.–DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1.  The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.–DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.

2.  The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.

3.  Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

4.  The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the U.S.–DPRK summit—the first in history—was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulations in this joint statement fully and expeditiously.  The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-on negotiations, led by the U.S. Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the U.S.–DPRK summit.

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new U.S.–DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.

DONALD J. TRUMP
President of the United States of America

KIM JONG UN
Chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea

June 12, 2018
Sentosa Island
Singapore
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 12:11:48 pm
Its a very positive step towards peace.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 12:18:13 pm
So, did anything actually happen, or is this whole thread fluff?

Fluff.  Trump said that Kim "reaffirmed" his commitment to denuclearization.   *****rollingeyes*****  Kim got a huge propaganda win by sitting down with the US President, and we get to cancel war games with South Korea.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 12:19:23 pm
So just a little garden variety diplomatic kabuki theater. Oh well. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: SZonian on June 12, 2018, 12:24:11 pm

Boy, this sure sounds familiar.

October 24, 2000

Only a few months ago, communist North Korea's missile programme and alleged nuclear weapons ambitions were being cited as the prime justification for the US embarking on a hugely expensive and controversial anti-missile defence system.

Now, Mr Albright is clinking glasses with Kim Jong-il and applauding a mass performance of synchronised praise for the Dear Leader, as he is officially called.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm)


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/SPi7FsQf479r2TP3cIClSg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0xODA7dz0zMDA-/http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/985000/images/_988725_kkimandalbright300.jpg.cf.jpg)

At least we still have the great visuals.
@edpc   *****rollingeyes*****
Your selective reading is noted, again...I said this as the caveat; "...if in the end, an accord is reached."

And Albright wasn't any kind of leader either.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 12, 2018, 12:28:40 pm
Fluff.  Trump said that Kim "reaffirmed" his commitment to denuclearization.   *****rollingeyes*****  Kim got a huge propaganda win by sitting down with the US President, and we get to cancel war games with South Korea.

If you had said to me "Trump is the guy to finally bring peace to Korea", I would have called you "a nut". It's historic even if we get nothing because we already have nothing. If Kim gets some gravitas, it means nothing to us. If Trump goes in and builds 10 casinos, it's better than what we have now. There is no "lose" in this situation. Everyone but Putin wants this. Win-win.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 12:28:50 pm

Boy, this sure sounds familiar.

October 24, 2000

Only a few months ago, communist North Korea's missile programme and alleged nuclear weapons ambitions were being cited as the prime justification for the US embarking on a hugely expensive and controversial anti-missile defence system.

Now, Mr Albright is clinking glasses with Kim Jong-il and applauding a mass performance of synchronised praise for the Dear Leader, as he is officially called.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm)


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/SPi7FsQf479r2TP3cIClSg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0xODA7dz0zMDA-/http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/985000/images/_988725_kkimandalbright300.jpg.cf.jpg)

At least we still have the great visuals.

It is familiar.  The difference needs to be how it goes forward.

In the past, when the agreements were discarded with additional nuclear weapons tests, what was the consequences?

What will they be going forward from here?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 12:29:45 pm
So just a little garden variety diplomatic kabuki theater. Oh well.


Even better.  It was carnival show stagecraft.


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/SfwbmWZ0Wc0IBsI73IejVA--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0zMTU7dz01Njk-/http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5142/452/1600/man-eating-chicken-2.jpg.cf.jpg)
(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/Ukr1gj9uzETJTpVMGMEtLQ--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz01OTI-/http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/55d1f0d7371d2278018c023b-3500-2364/rtx1odub.jpg.cf.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 12:31:22 pm
If you had said to me "Trump is the guy to finally bring peace to Korea", I would have called you "a nut". It's historic even if we get nothing because we already have nothing. If Kim gets some gravitas, it means nothing to us. If Trump goes in and builds 10 casinos, it's better than what we have now. There is no "lose" in this situation. Everyone but Putin wants this. Win-win.

Achieving the same failures of the past with similar actions of the past is hardly historic.  There is certainly "lose" if President Trump shows no consequences to breaking this "letter of intent".  It would undermine any negotiation with other regimes.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 12:35:20 pm
Your selective reading is noted, again...I said this as the caveat; "...if in the end, an accord is reached."

And Albright wasn't any kind of leader either.


That moment was in October, 2000.  At that point, the signed Agreed Framework deal had been in place for 6 years.  How did that work out?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 12:38:09 pm
If you had said to me "Trump is the guy to finally bring peace to Korea", I would have called you "a nut". It's historic even if we get nothing because we already have nothing. If Kim gets some gravitas, it means nothing to us. If Trump goes in and builds 10 casinos, it's better than what we have now. There is no "lose" in this situation. Everyone but Putin wants this. Win-win.

Pompeo said that the goal was “irreversible” and “verifiable” denuclearization.  We certainly didn’t get that as documented in the joint statement issued by the two leaders, and I don’t think we ever will.  "If" we eventually get that irreversible and verifiable denuclearization, I'll certainly celebrate it, but the actual accomplishments from THIS summit look to me to be heavily in Kim's favor.  JMO.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 12, 2018, 12:42:16 pm
Because no North Korean leader has ever shaken hands with an American President. The North Koreans are taught from birth to hate America. All their movies feature Americans as the enemy. This has been going on for 60+ years. That's why Kim's pen got swapped at the last minute. They were worried he would be poisoned.
No politician would risk this summit.

I'm sure the nukes and rockets are already in Iran and Kim got paid off.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: LauraTXNM on June 12, 2018, 12:42:32 pm
The SK and Japanese are not going to be happy.  Ending the military readiness exercises?  No movement on the Japanese kidnapped?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 12:44:45 pm
@edpc   *****rollingeyes*****
Your selective reading is noted, again...I said this as the caveat; "...if in the end, an accord is reached."

And Albright wasn't any kind of leader either.

@SZonian
There is an essential difference between that meeting and this one.   Clinton, Bush, and Obama all used appeasement and weakness as a bargaining approach.  It failed miserably.

According to all reports the US has given nothing to NK this time and has not even dropped the sanctions.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 12:48:13 pm
If you had said to me "Trump is the guy to finally bring peace to Korea", I would have called you "a nut". It's historic even if we get nothing because we already have nothing. If Kim gets some gravitas, it means nothing to us. If Trump goes in and builds 10 casinos, it's better than what we have now. There is no "lose" in this situation. Everyone but Putin wants this. Win-win.

@Restored
Kim was educated in Switzerland and probably doesn't like living in NK.   He probably also sees the old guard there as a threat to him personally.

Putin probably wants it as he could get more cheap labor from NK and probably some of their natural resources.  Of course he doesn't want to make America look good so he'll pretend to be against it.

Many people do not want this to happen; not because they don't want peace but because they want peace less then they want Trump to fail.   The left here in the US including the Democrats, some of the GOP, and of course some of the NTs.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 12:51:52 pm
The SK and Japanese are not going to be happy.  Ending the military readiness exercises?  No movement on the Japanese kidnapped?

@LauraTXNM
The South Koreans aren't happy because the US excluded them from this meeting.   Based on their news reports they are quite happy with the outcome of the meeting though.

As for the military exercises, they have their own exercises and a competent military.   They want peace and an end to the war.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 12, 2018, 12:52:42 pm
So just a little garden variety diplomatic kabuki theater. Oh well.

Garden variety?  Try of the historic variety.

Sure, it's a photo op,  and the joint statement is full of platitudes and promises of a most general variety.   But the purpose of first steps like these are to build a foundation for future trust.   

Our two nations have been, technically, at war since before I was born.   And that photo op and joint statement will,  for the first time, be shown to the North Korean people.   Once a genie is let out of bottle . . .

And as others have pointed out,  there IS something very tangible and valuable in this for North Korea if it gives up its nukes, and that is the Pacific rim economic miracle that has transformed Korea to the south.  My son just bought his first new car - a Hyundai.   South Korea has the prestige and economic wherewithal that the NORKs can only dream about.   

I don't have blinders on about Little Kim and his murderous regime.   Its alliances with Iran and other bad actors can be seen as manifestations of evil, but, it can also be said,  of its isolation.   The NORKs do act rationally in a perverse and paranoid sort of way.   It is time to see whether they - and we - can take yes for an answer.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 12:53:07 pm

Even better.  It was carnival show stagecraft.


This coming off your two-year long prediction streak being 100 percent wrong about Donald Trump.

But, go ahead, keep it up, it’s been a blast watching NeverTrumpers contort without the slightest bit of contrition or nod towards reality. But I gotta say, you and @Oceander certainly rack up points for chutzpah. That’s something at least.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 12:56:19 pm
Many people do not want this to happen; not because they don't want peace but because they want peace less then they want Trump to fail.   The left here in the US including the Democrats, some of the GOP, and of course some of the NTs.


Some are also massively distrustful of blatantly dishonest people.  We understand that is a huge character flaw, but we’re working on it.    *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 12, 2018, 01:01:10 pm
Many people do not want this to happen; not because they don't want peace but because they want peace less then they want Trump to fail.   The left here in the US including the Democrats, some of the GOP, and of course some of the NTs.

Agreed.  Peace (and prosperity), if it can be achieved, means another four years.   The thought drives some folks nuts.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:02:40 pm

Some are also massively distrustful of blatantly dishonest people.  We understand that is a huge character flaw, but we’re working on it.    *****rollingeyes*****

@edpc
So once again I'll ask you; what is your alternative?

We're listening.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: kevindavis007 on June 12, 2018, 01:06:35 pm
@edpc
So once again I'll ask you; what is your alternative?

We're listening.


How about they give up their nuclear program and we don't throw our Allies (South Korea and Japan) under the bus.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 01:09:39 pm
              Definitely could use less Bread and Circuses

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/jw0LZkGbljGcHeWevjYywg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzU0O2g9NDIz/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/420ce83894e7887d1f1b81dd525e0ad9)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 01:10:17 pm

How about they give up their nuclear program and we don't throw our Allies (South Korea and Japan) under the bus.

You guys should stop. Its a bad look.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:11:46 pm
This coming off your two-year long prediction streak being 100 percent wrong about Donald Trump.

But, go ahead, keep it up, it’s been a blast watching NeverTrumpers contort without the slightest bit of contrition or nod towards reality. But I gotta say, you and @Oceander certainly rack up points for chutzpah. That’s something at least.

So what concrete, verifiable actions were taken?  What did NK agree to do in concrete, verifiable terms?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 01:13:28 pm
Its a very positive step towards peace.

Damned right it is and I don't care what the nay sayers say about it
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:13:59 pm

How about they give up their nuclear program and we don't throw our Allies (South Korea and Japan) under the bus.

@kevindavis
De-nuclearization is one of the 4 items on the agreement they signed.  At this point what else could they have done?

As for SK and Japan, seems to me an end to the war and and end to NKs nuke program is very very good for both countries.

This is the closest anyone has been to ending the Korean war and moving forward with stabilizing the region since 1953.  Yet you still want to do nothing but bitch and moan about Trump.   Its unbelievable
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:15:42 pm
@kevindavis
De-nuclearization is one of the 4 items on the agreement they signed.  At this point what else could they have done?

As for SK and Japan, seems to me an end to the war and and end to NKs nuke program is very very good for both countries.

This is the closest anyone has been to ending the Korean war and moving forward with stabilizing the region since 1953.  Yet you still want to do nothing but bitch and moan about Trump.   Its unbelievable

So, what concrete verifiable steps did NK agree to take toward permanent denuclearization?  What time frame did they agree to?  What penalties did they agree to if they fail to carry through on concrete verifiable terms?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:17:30 pm
So what concrete, verifiable actions were taken?  What did NK agree to do in concrete, verifiable terms?

@Oceander
Did you finish law school in a day?  Or did it take about 8 years?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 01:19:03 pm
This coming off your two-year long prediction streak being 100 percent wrong about Donald Trump.


Yeah, my biggest prediction is that he’s duplicitous and can’t be believed or trusted.  Pick an issue and you’ll find a history of him being on every side of it.  Boy, do I feel terrible about that one.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:19:11 pm
So, what concrete verifiable steps did NK agree to take toward permanent denuclearization?  What time frame did they agree to?  What penalties did they agree to if they fail to carry through on concrete verifiable terms?

@Oceander
Trump said they don't get anything until its done.  All thats been discussed is a lifting of the sanctions once its been verified.

You seem to want the entire novel War and Peace whittled down to a 4 bullet Cliff Notes.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 01:19:45 pm

Boy, this sure sounds familiar.

October 24, 2000

Only a few months ago, communist North Korea's missile programme and alleged nuclear weapons ambitions were being cited as the prime justification for the US embarking on a hugely expensive and controversial anti-missile defence system.

Now, Mr Albright is clinking glasses with Kim Jong-il and applauding a mass performance of synchronised praise for the Dear Leader, as he is officially called.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/988725.stm)


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/SPi7FsQf479r2TP3cIClSg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0xODA7dz0zMDA-/http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/985000/images/_988725_kkimandalbright300.jpg.cf.jpg)

At least we still have the great visuals.

It sounds familiar only in being another anti-Trump post; if a solid agreement was worked out that would never falter, we would still have the detractors who would be sure, Kim is hiding nukes or find some sort of other failure.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:19:59 pm
@Oceander
Did you finish law school in a day?  Or did it take about 8 years?

In other words, nothing.

To extend your metaphor: I also didn’t strut around pronouncing myself valedictorian after the first day of 1L, unlike the Trumpalos here.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:21:27 pm
@Oceander
Trump said they don't get anything until its done.  All thats been discussed is a lifting of the sanctions once its been verified.

You seem to want the entire novel War and Peace whittled down to a 4 bullet Cliff Notes.   

In other words, nothing.  So this is just as I summarized earlier: diplomatic kabuki theater.  Whether it leads to anything subsequent is anybody’s guess, but it does not justify the victory laps being taken by the Trumpalos here.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:21:43 pm
In other words, nothing.

To extend your metaphor: I also didn’t strut around pronouncing myself valedictorian after the first day of 1L, unlike the Trumpalos here.

@Oceander
Would you be so kind as to point out who is doing that?   

Nobody is,  people are just happy to see progress and an alternative to nuclear holocaust.   

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:23:57 pm
@Oceander
Would you be so kind as to point out who is doing that?   

Nobody is,  people are just happy to see progress and an alternative to nuclear holocaust.   



Because there is no progress here.  You are as guilty as the rest by claiming there is.  The only victory here belongs to Kim, who finally got something his father and grandfather desperately wanted and never got: a one-on-one meeting between NK and the US without any of the other parties, including SK, present. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: kevindavis007 on June 12, 2018, 01:24:32 pm
@kevindavis
De-nuclearization is one of the 4 items on the agreement they signed.  At this point what else could they have done?

As for SK and Japan, seems to me an end to the war and and end to NKs nuke program is very very good for both countries.

This is the closest anyone has been to ending the Korean war and moving forward with stabilizing the region since 1953.  Yet you still want to do nothing but bitch and moan about Trump.   Its unbelievable


@driftdriver


You give anything to a Communist Country that weakens this country or OUR ALLIES!!!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 01:25:07 pm
It sounds familiar only in being another anti-Trump post; if a solid agreement was worked out that would never falter, we would still have the detractors who would be sure, Kim is hiding nukes or find some sort of other failure.


Some of us actually remember signed, ratified treaties between the USSR and USA the Soviets routinely violated.  Somehow, the Norks will be different, though - right?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 12, 2018, 01:26:20 pm
@LauraTXNM
The South Koreans aren't happy because the US excluded them from this meeting.   Based on their news reports they are quite happy with the outcome of the meeting though.


They are meeting separately. The North sees the South as a duped tool of the US, held hostage by us. It will be interesting to see how the North's media handles this whole thing. They will have to walk back decades of propaganda. I wonder if they will play this as Kim over-powering the dull-witted President of the US.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:26:21 pm

Some of us actually remember signed, ratified treaties between the USSR and USA the Soviets routinely violated.  Somehow, the Norks will be different, though - right?

Of course, a vague promise that denuclearization would be nice is as good as having the missiles and warheads on the dismantling table, so long as Trump got the promise. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:28:07 pm

@driftdriver


You give anything to a Communist Country that weakens this country or OUR ALLIES!!!

@kevindavis
The NK haven't been given anything.    I don't see you protesting China?  In fact you seem to support 'free trade' which involves sending jobs to that communist nation.

but perhaps you'd prefer nuclear explosions over Seattle.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:28:31 pm
Because there is no progress here.  You are as guilty as the rest by claiming there is.  The only victory here belongs to Kim, who finally got something his father and grandfather desperately wanted and never got: a one-on-one meeting between NK and the US without any of the other parties, including SK, present.

@Oceander

 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:28:46 pm
EXCLUSIVE: 'I do trust him': Trump opens up about Kim after historic summit
https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-trust-trump-opens-kim-historic-summit/story?id=55815265 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/exclusive-trust-trump-opens-kim-historic-summit/story?id=55815265)



'They have great beaches!' Trump included image of MIAMI when he showed Kim video about North Korea's future – as he said dictator could develop condos or hotels if he keeps nuke promises and sanctions come off
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834437/They-great-beaches-Trump-showed-Kim-iPad-video-North-Koreas-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834437/They-great-beaches-Trump-showed-Kim-iPad-video-North-Koreas-future.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:29:42 pm
@Oceander

 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

Thanks for proving that you worship Trump in place of God.  It’s pretty clear that in your pantheon, God and Jesus rank a distant second to Trump.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 01:29:53 pm
Because there is no progress here.  You are as guilty as the rest by claiming there is.  The only victory here belongs to Kim, who finally got something his father and grandfather desperately wanted and never got: a one-on-one meeting between NK and the US without any of the other parties, including SK, present.

In business law, do letter of intents have any meaning at all?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: kevindavis007 on June 12, 2018, 01:30:30 pm

@McFaul
How can Trump establish an excellent relationship with a North Korean dictator in 45 minutes, but can't establish working relationships with our longstanding democratic allies after 18 months?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 12, 2018, 01:30:55 pm
The North has to drop their nuclear program. It represents a threat to China. They have no choice. Plus I believe they did it as a proxy for Iran.
The North needs food. If we can get North Koreans eating again, Kim can take credit for it. In return, everyone in that region quits worrying about North Korea and they may see some investment.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:30:58 pm
In business law, do letter of intents have any meaning at all?

Not if they don’t have any concrete terms that can be enforced.  Where are the enforceable obligations in this “letter of intent”?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 01:31:00 pm
Of course, a vague promise that denuclearization would be nice is as good as having the missiles and warheads on the dismantling table, so long as Trump got the promise.

I'll bet you've got Robert DiNiro on an infinite loop.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:31:39 pm
They are meeting separately. The North sees the South as a duped tool of the US, held hostage by us. It will be interesting to see how the North's media handles this whole thing. They will have to walk back decades of propaganda. I wonder if they will play this as Kim over-powering the dull-witted President of the US.

@Restored
South Korean news showed video of the SK president and Kim speaking.   Kims question to the SK president was how can he know he can trust the US to do what we say we will do.

I think NK is bankrupt and Kim knows he has to do something or he will end up on the wrong end of a mortar or VX nerve agent. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:32:23 pm
I'll bet you've got Robert DiNiro on an infinite loop.

Why?  I haven’t dissed Trump in all this.  I just his idiotic worshippers who are reading way more into this than what actually happened. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:32:23 pm
Not if they don’t have any concrete terms that can be enforced.  Where are the enforceable obligations in this “letter of intent”?

@Oceander
How do  you get to something enforceable?   What is the first step?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 01:33:09 pm
I see this as a very positive first step and particular so IF Trump follows through with the no concessions till it's all done thing. I nor anyone else can possibly know what the final outcome will be right now but something is always better than nothing.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:33:40 pm
@Oceander
How do  you get to something enforceable?   What is the first step?

Are there any concrete enforceable promises in this agreement?  Yes or no.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:34:01 pm
Trump, Kim sign denuclearization deal in 'new chapter'
By Rebecca Kheel and Jordan Fabian - 06/12/18 01:50 AM EDT

President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un signed an agreement Tuesday committing the United States to unspecified “security guarantees” in exchange for a denuclearized Korean peninsula, as Trump said the two were ready "to write a new chapter" between the nations.

The agreement and a surprise decision by Trump to call off joint military exercises with South Korea capped an historic summit that represented the first ever meeting between a U.S. president and a North Korean leader.

“I think our whole relationship with North Korea and the Korean peninsula is going to be a very different situation than it has in the past,” Trump said at a signing ceremony on the agreement.

“We’ve developed a very special bond,” he said of his relationship with Kim.

Trump added that he would “absolutely” invite Kim to the White House to continue their talks.

Kim called the document “historic” and said it would lead to a new era in the U.S.-North Korea relationship.

“We had a historic meeting and decided to leave the past behind, and we are about to sign a historic document,” he said through a translator. “The world will see a major change.”

Kim also thanked Trump for making “this meeting happen.”

Photos of Trump at the signing ceremony holding up the document, which was not immediately released to the press, revealed its contents.

President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to [North Korea], and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to the complete denuclearization of the Korean peninsula," the statement said.

Trump called the document “pretty comprehensive” despite its lack of specifics.

“I think both sides are going to be impressed with the result,” Trump told reporters. “We’re going to take care of a very big and very dangerous problem for the world.”

The statement touts the “great significance” of the “epochal event” of the first ever U.S-North Korea summit, adding it will help the “opening of a new future.”

The document does not elaborate on what steps the United States will take to guarantee North Korea’s security, nor does it lay out the steps North Korea will need to take to denuclearize.

It does commit to holding further negotiations led by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and a “relevant” North Korean official at “the earliest date possible.”

The statement refers to denuclearization of the entire Korean peninsula, North Korea’s favored language. And while the United States in the past has demanded so-called CVID — or complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization — the statement does not include the words “verifiable” and “irreversible.”

Asked at press conference later Tuesday whether the exclusion of those two words was a concession, Trump said “not at all.”

Trump and Kim agreed to four broad commitments, according to the signed document: to establish new U.S.-North Korean relations “in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity;” to join “efforts to build a lasting and stable peace” on the peninsula;” to reaffirm the declaration Kim signed at his summit with South Korea’s president; and to recover the remains of Americans lost or killed during the Korean War.

At the press conference, Trump in particular touted the commitment on repatriating Korean War remains, saying he had received "countless calls" and letters from asking for help on the issue.

“The remains will be coming back," Trump said. "They’re going to start that process immediately.”

The signing ceremony concluded a summit that appeared impossible just one year ago, when both men's threats against each other fueled a growing nuclear crisis.

Trump had mocked the North Korean leader as "Little Rocket Man" as the two exchanged barbs over their weapons programs. Kim responded by dismissing the president as a "mentally deranged dotard" who would "pay dearly" for his threats against Pyongyang.

Trump and Kim, however, appeared to have a friendly rapport during their day together at the Singapore island resort.

"The past worked as fetters on our limbs, and the old prejudices and practices worked as obstacles on our way forward. But we overcame all of them, and we are here today," Kim said through a translator as the two met for the first time.

The pair shook hands and met in a one-on-one setting before conferring with aides. The president even showed the North Korean leader the inside of his limousine after their sessions were over. 

“It's going great. We had a really fantastic meeting. A lot of progress. Really, very positive, I think better than anybody could have expected, top of the line, really good,” Trump said after a working lunch with Kim.

Despite the optimistic rhetoric, the summit did not produce an ironclad nuclear agreement or a peace treaty to end the Korean War — two possibilities Trump raised ahead of the talks.

“We’re starting that process very quickly. Very, very quickly. Absolutely,” Trump said at the signing ceremony when asked by reporters if Kim had agreed to denuclearize.

At the press conference later, Trump also said he knows "for a fact" that Kim is going to "start a process" when returns home that will "make a lot of people very happy and very safe."

“I don’t think they’ve ever had the confidence, frankly, in a president that they have right now for getting things done and having the ability to get things done,” Trump said. “I think he might want to do this as much or even more than me because they see a very bright future for North Korea.”

Pompeo told reporters it would provide a “framework” for future negotiations.

Critics had said a summit that ended without a declaration on denuclearization would amount to a propaganda win for Kim, elevating him to legitimacy on the international stage.

Regional experts are also skeptical Kim will give up any of his weapons regardless of his declarations, saying the Kim family playbook is for the regime to make promises, drag out its efforts to carry out those pledges as it gets concessions and then later renege altogether.

Trump had lowered expectations for the results of the summit in the last couple weeks, saying it was the start of a process meant for the two leaders to get to know each other. The change in tone came after Trump first canceled the meeting, citing Kim’s “open hostility,” then decided to move forward after a visit to Washington by a high ranking North Korean official.

Analysts had expected both Trump and Kim to sell the summit as a success regardless of outcome since both have much at stake.

At the signing ceremony, Trump said he was “very proud” of what happened Tuesday and thanked Kim, reiterating that it was an “honor” to meet.

Trump did not answer a reporter's question on whether the two spoke about Otto Warmbier, the American student who died shortly after his release from North Korean imprisonment in a coma exactly one year ago.

In the lead-up to the summit, North Korea released three other Americans who had been held hostage. Pompeo brought them home last month on the second of his two visits with Kim to lay the groundwork for Tuesday.

After the ceremony, Trump and Kim walked back to the platform where they started the morning with a handshake, shaking hands once again. Responding to reporters, Trump, who prides himself on his dealmaking skills, called Kim a “worthy negotiator.”

“We had a terrific day, and we learned a lot about each other and about our countries,” Trump said. “I learned he’s a very talented man. I also learned that he loves his country very much.”

—Updated at 5:54 a.m.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391764-trump-and-kim-sign-agreement-denuclearization (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391764-trump-and-kim-sign-agreement-denuclearization)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 01:34:45 pm
One other good thing that came out of this as Dennis Rodman revealed how President Obama blew him off when he approached Obama regarding Kim’s desire to make positive changes, and how Trump took the opposite position in welcoming Rodman’s overtures.

Don’t think that this went unnoticed in the black community as Trump continues to make inroads there for republican gains.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 01:35:52 pm
Not if they don’t have any concrete terms that can be enforced.  Where are the enforceable obligations in this “letter of intent”?

And are binding commitments typical at the very first meeting to discuss a possible agreement?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 01:36:24 pm
@kevindavis
The NK haven't been given anything.    I don't see you protesting China?  In fact you seem to support 'free trade' which involves sending jobs to that communist nation.

but perhaps you'd prefer nuclear explosions over Seattle.

   We're also finding out years later what obummer promised the Iranians under the table.  I don't trust any of them. @driftdiver 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 01:36:24 pm
Why?  I haven’t dissed Trump in all this.  I just his idiotic worshippers who are reading way more into this than what actually happened.

You're coming off as if you're worried someone somewhere might think well of Trump for what happened yesterday.

Why not just hope things work out, with the rest of us? Surely you can't believe it would've been better if none of this happened.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:37:43 pm
   We're also finding out years later what obummer promised the Iranians under the table.  I don't trust any of them. @driftdiver

@corbe
I don't either but Trump was amazingly open in his press conference.  I don't remember seeing any President acting with as much confidence and being as open.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:39:14 pm
I hope all the compliments Trump has bestowed on Kim are part of reeling Kim in....some of these compliments are sickening

Trump says Kim has a ‘great personality’

Trump: North Koreans love Kim

Trump: I’ll ‘absolutely’ invite Kim Jong Un to White House


Trump lavishes Kim with compliments after historic summit
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391770-trump-lavishes-kim-with-compliments-after-historic-summit (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391770-trump-lavishes-kim-with-compliments-after-historic-summit)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 01:43:24 pm
"I do trust him, yeah," Trump said. "Maybe in a year you’ll be interviewing and I'll say I made a mistake. It's possible. We’re dealing at a high level, a lot of things can change a lot of things are possible."


Reminiscent of how he hires the best people, then rags on them mercilessly on Twitter after they’re fired.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: kevindavis007 on June 12, 2018, 01:43:47 pm
@kevindavis
The NK haven't been given anything.    I don't see you protesting China?  In fact you seem to support 'free trade' which involves sending jobs to that communist nation.

but perhaps you'd prefer nuclear explosions over Seattle.


There is a thing called Missile Defense.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:44:00 pm
And are binding commitments typical at the very first meeting to discuss a possible agreement?

Why can’t you simply admit that this was nothing more than a pleasant meet and greet, with no substantive results?  There is no dishonor in it, and it doesn’t reflect poorly on you or Trump. 

What it did not do was move the ball down the field even an inch.  So let’s stop pretending that Trump just kicked a field goal. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:46:31 pm
Here's the full text of 'historic' document Trump, Kim signed at North Korea summit
by Washington Examiner Staff
 | June 12, 2018 04:27 AM



President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un signed a joint statement on Tuesday after their historic meetings in Singapore.

Read the full statement as seen in photos below:



Joint Statement of President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea at the Singapore Summit

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK) held a first, historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive, in-depth and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new US-DPRK relations and the building of a lasting and robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

Convinced that the establishment of new US-DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

    The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new US-DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
    The United States and DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
    Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula
    The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the US-DPRK summit -- the first in history -- was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulations in the joint statement fully and expeditiously. The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-on negotiations, led by the US Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the US-DPRK summit.

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new US-DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and the security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.

DONALD J. TRUMP
President of the United States of America

KIM JONG UN
Chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea

June 12, 2018
Sentosa Island
Singapore
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:46:46 pm
You're coming off as if you're worried someone somewhere might think well of Trump for what happened yesterday.

Why not just hope things work out, with the rest of us? Surely you can't believe it would've been better if none of this happened.

You’re simply projecting your own insecurities into others.  I won’t worship Trump or claim he’s accomplished concrete goals others could not, and you think I’m dissing him?

Get over it.  Y’all are as pathetic as the liberals who were crowing about Obamas deal with Iran. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: endicom on June 12, 2018, 01:48:00 pm
I just his idiotic worshippers who are reading way more into this than what actually happened.


It's you reading things into the comments of the "idiotic worshippers." We all know this summit was just an opening move.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: kevindavis007 on June 12, 2018, 01:48:16 pm

@WalshFreedom

He makes a propaganda video for North Korea, he stops our joint military exercises with South Korea, he puts the North Korean Flag up there right next to ours, and he says Kim Jong Un is a great man who loves his own people.

Uh...Trump is a tough guy?

No wonder Kim is smiling.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:48:36 pm
Why can’t you simply admit that this was nothing more than a pleasant meet and greet, with no substantive results?  There is no dishonor in it, and it doesn’t reflect poorly on you or Trump. 

What it did not do was move the ball down the field even an inch.  So let’s stop pretending that Trump just kicked a field goal.

Exactly..Trump himself has said that the first meeting is just the beginning..there will be more.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 01:48:37 pm
@Restored
South Korean news showed video of the SK president and Kim speaking.   Kims question to the SK president was how can he know he can trust the US to do what we say we will do.

I think NK is bankrupt and Kim knows he has to do something or he will end up on the wrong end of a mortar or VX nerve agent.

Probably so.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 01:48:49 pm

There is a thing called Missile Defense.

@kevindavis
Which has never been shown to work with ICBMs.   Nor would it even be feasible for an EMP attack which NK is capable of right now.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:51:05 pm
Trump: Otto Warmbier helped make North Korea summit possible
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/trump-otto-warmbier-helped-make-north-korea-summit-possible (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/trump-otto-warmbier-helped-make-north-korea-summit-possible)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: kevindavis007 on June 12, 2018, 01:51:12 pm
@kevindavis
Which has never been shown to work with ICBMs.   Nor would it even be feasible for an EMP attack which NK is capable of right now.


@driftdriver


According to whom?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 01:52:07 pm
It's hard to think things will slide by Bolton and Pompeo.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:54:33 pm
No more nukes! Kim Jong-un commits to COMPLETE DENUCLEARISATION in historic Trump meeting
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/972977/Trump-Kim-summit-meeting-signing-donald-trump-kim-jong-un-singapore-agreement-nuclear (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/972977/Trump-Kim-summit-meeting-signing-donald-trump-kim-jong-un-singapore-agreement-nuclear)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 01:54:48 pm
You’re simply projecting your own insecurities into others.  I won’t worship Trump or claim he’s accomplished concrete goals others could not, and you think I’m dissing him?

Get over it.  Y’all are as pathetic as the liberals who were crowing about Obamas deal with Iran.

You need rest.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 01:55:36 pm
It's hard to think things will slide by Bolton and Pompeo.

Exactly what I am thinking especially with Bolton
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 01:57:03 pm
It's hard to think things will slide by Bolton and Pompeo.


Yep - that whole Iraq thing Bolton was behind worked out splendidly.  Pompeo also thinks we can Bosnia our way through Iran’s nuclear program with 2K sorties.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:57:07 pm
You need rest.


I need a break from Trumpalos and mindless jingoism, that’s true enough. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 01:57:41 pm
Greta Van Susternen interviewed Trump in Singapore:

Quote
Van Susteren: What surprised you about Kim Jong Un?

Trump: “Really, he’s got a great personality. He’s a funny guy, he’s very smart, he’s a great negotiator. He loves his people, not that I’m surprised by that, but he loves his people. And I think that we have the start of an amazing deal. We’re going to denuke North Korea. It’s going to start immediately and a lot of other things are happening, including getting the remains back. You know — that’s been — know you’ve been so involved in North Korea, but getting the remains back Greta is so important to so many people. They’ve called me, they wrote me letters, “Please can you do it?” and he’s agreed to do that, thousands of people so — who died in the war — so that’s a big deal.”

Van Susteren: So you put the human rights issue on the table today and he reacted how?

Trump: “Very well. I mean, we obviously were talking about the denuclearization 90 percent of the time, but we put a lot of other things, including human rights were mentioned, getting the remains back were a big factor, in fact we put it in the document, we were able to get that in the document, we got a lot of good things in that document, that was far beyond what anyone thought was going to happen.”

https://www.voanews.com/a/trump-to-voa-we-re-going-to-denuke-north-korea-/4435044.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/trump-to-voa-we-re-going-to-denuke-north-korea-/4435044.html)

Okay, even I admit, this is not the most coherent statement:

".... in fact we put it in the document, we were able to get that in the document, we got a lot of good things in that document,"

Anyone say "document"?  :rolling:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 01:58:56 pm
Greta Van Susternen interviewed Trump in Singapore:

Okay, even I admit, this is not the most coherent statement:

".... in fact we put it in the document, we were able to get that in the document, we got a lot of good things in that document,"

Anyone say "document"?  :rolling:

And Trump is back to inhaling his own jingoism. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 01:59:10 pm

Yep - that whole Iraq thing Bolton was behind worked out splendidly.

Can one document how Bolton was behind that Iraq thing? That's been discussed before, he might have been for that intervention like countless politicians, Hannity and others, but he didn't help plan it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 02:00:25 pm
Are there any concrete enforceable promises in this agreement?  Yes or no.

@Oceander
How do you get to something enforceable?

Simple question
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:01:09 pm
And Trump is back to inhaling his own jingoism.

Respectfully, to all in the forum, you just sound bent out of shape. Objecting to photo ops with a historical event? Really as is on the first page.

I love your points of view but here, you are coming off bitter.

As said before, it be Romney, McCain, I was supportive of whom the GOP candidate is. Not the sycophants some characterize others to be.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 02:02:04 pm
Greta Van Susternen interviewed Trump in Singapore:

Okay, even I admit, this is not the most coherent statement:

".... in fact we put it in the document, we were able to get that in the document, we got a lot of good things in that document,"

Anyone say "document"?  :rolling:

He flew to Europe, had meetings, then flew to Asia (a 21 hour flight) and then had meetings all day.

Even with AF1 that is pretty good for a 71 year old.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:02:57 pm
Quote
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
    Lao-tzu, The Way of Lao-tzu
    Chinese philosopher (604 BC - 531 BC)   

http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/24004.html (http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/24004.html)

Aside from the quote, there probably is something to dealing with the Far Eastern Asian mentality. we will see.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:04:18 pm
He flew to Europe, had meetings, then flew to Asia (a 21 hour flight) and then had meetings all day.

Even with AF1 that is pretty good for a 71 year old.

I wasn't really meaning to be critical. At times, he talks that way but it is clear to understand what he is saying with no doubts .... and as being the most powerful man in the world.

Let there be no doubts, it's in the document!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 02:04:33 pm
It's hard to think things will slide by Bolton and Pompeo.

Agreed!   And they will have much to say about anything that gets agreed to.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 02:09:55 pm
Respectfully, to all in the forum, you just sound bent out of shape. Objecting to photo ops with a historical event? Really as is on the first page.

I love your points of view but here, you are coming off bitter.

As said before, it be Romney, McCain, I was supportive of whom the GOP candidate is. Not the sycophants some characterize others to be.

Sorry, but Trump-worship is just as offensive as Obama-worship, it not moreso given how so many Trumpalos knocked liberals for worshipping Obama.  I object to the worship.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 02:10:05 pm
Can one document how Bolton was behind that Iraq thing? That's been discussed before, he might have been for that intervention like countless politicians, Hannity and others, but he didn't help plan it.



No, he’s on record as saying Powell and Armitage kept him out of the planning, because his views aligned with Cheney and Rumsfeld.  He’s also been unapologetic about the decision to invade.

John Bolton: No regrets about toppling Saddam

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/john-bolton-no-regrets-about-toppling-saddam/article/2564463 (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/john-bolton-no-regrets-about-toppling-saddam/article/2564463)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 02:12:49 pm
Sorry, but Trump-worship is just as offensive as Obama-worship, it not moreso given how so many Trumpalos knocked liberals for worshipping Obama.  I object to the worship.

Your beef isn't with us. Its with Dennis Rodman.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 02:15:00 pm


No, he’s on record as saying Powell and Armitage kept him out of the planning, because his views aligned with Cheney and Rumsfeld.  He’s also been unapologetic about the decision to invade.

John Bolton: No regrets about toppling Saddam

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/john-bolton-no-regrets-about-toppling-saddam/article/2564463 (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/john-bolton-no-regrets-about-toppling-saddam/article/2564463)

We also know John Bolton has written controverial things,

Opinion | To Stop Iran’s Bomb, Bomb Iran - The New York Times (John Bolton)
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/opinion/to-stop-irans-bomb-bomb-iran.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/opinion/to-stop-irans-bomb-bomb-iran.html)

And I think he talked about a preemptive strike against North Korea at one time, so, that Bolton has some strong opinions isn't a secret.

And Rand Paul said he was against Bolton because Bolton said invading Iraq wasn't a mistake.

Bolton's record certainly is very public.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 02:16:30 pm

It's you reading things into the comments of the "idiotic worshippers." We all know this summit was just an opening move.

They’ll never acknowledge that Donald Trump built his career on his negotiation skills. They take every Trump utterance literally and take every presidential accomplishment as invalid because well, you know, TRUMP.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 02:17:36 pm
Greta Van Susternen interviewed Trump in Singapore:

I used to like her, but her question is nuts.

Virtually the entire press corps, State Department, foreign policy pundits, etc., apparently never negotiated anything significant.  There is a time and a place for everything, and the time and place for battling over human rights is not at a summit about nuclear disarmament.  You focus on the one key issue for which you came there, and you don't let other crap that might derail things interfere.

Far too many people have fallen into the trap of being more concerned about political "optics" than about substance.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 02:18:12 pm
Sorry, but Trump-worship is just as offensive as Obama-worship, it not moreso given how so many Trumpalos knocked liberals for worshipping Obama.  I object to the worship.

This from a guy posting on a site that up until recently had a picture of Reagan in the header.

Trump has destroyed your weltanschauung and I see it frightens you.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 02:19:19 pm
One other good thing that came out of this as Dennis Rodman revealed how President Obama blew him off when he approached Obama regarding Kim’s desire to make positive changes, and how Trump took the opposite position in welcoming Rodman’s overtures.

Don’t think that this went unnoticed in the black community as Trump continues to make inroads there for republican gains.

Trump decided that you can't negotiate unless you talk.  Obama apparently was given the asinine advice that playing the stern, silent father type was the way to proceed.  That is a negotiating strategy that has failed magnificently for decades.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 02:23:12 pm
Why can’t you simply admit that this was nothing more than a pleasant meet and greet, with no substantive results?  There is no dishonor in it, and it doesn’t reflect poorly on you or Trump. 

What it did not do was move the ball down the field even an inch.  So let’s stop pretending that Trump just kicked a field goal.

I don't agree that this was no progress. 

I do agree this meeting and "proclamation" will not have much meaning without further follow-through.  But I don't see the following actions beginning without this start.

If Kim does further Nuke testing from this point, the US would have better justification for a military response.  I see that as progress. 

We tried to be diplomatic.  It will be more difficult for Kim to back away at this point on his own actions.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 02:23:56 pm
They’ll never acknowledge that Donald Trump built his career on his negotiation skills. They take every Trump utterance literally and take every presidential accomplishment as invalid because well, you know, TRUMP.

I never said this was invalid.  It is what it is, and I quite agree that Rome wasn’t built in a day.  So let’s stop pretending that we’ve got even one of the seven hills already built. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 02:24:38 pm
This from a guy posting on a site that up until recently had a picture of Reagan in the header.

Trump has destroyed your weltanschauung and I see it frightens you.

/snicker

Fancy German vocab wont save you. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 02:26:03 pm
I hope all the compliments Trump has bestowed on Kim are part of reeling Kim in....

Of course they are. Look, Trump already went down the very harsh rhetoric path, to the point where people thought he was nuts, and going to provoke an actual nuclear war with NK.  "Trump is a warmonger who will get us all killed!"

But after that mountain fractured, we got the upper hand.  When Kim started making noises that were different, and less confrontational, that's when Trump (very, very rightly) decided to depersonalize the communications, and use a carrot rather than a stick.  If a verifiable deal doesn't happen, you want it to be because the parties just can't agree, not because Un's ego is hurt and he refuses a deal out of spite.

This kind of stuff is Negotiations 101.  There is a time to bang on the table and threaten, and then comes a time when you offer to get the other guy a cup of coffee, and then there's a time when you bring the donuts, ask about the other side's kids, and thank them for working with you.  Maybe you ultimately reach a deal, and maybe you don't, but you should never ever let personal acrimony or emotion be what kills a deal.

I've sealed a lot of negotiations with plaintiffs and their attorneys by giving a "heartfelt" (not really) statement about how I understand their feelings, blah blah blah.  Because ultimately, a little bit of butt-kissing is of no consequence if you get that deal done.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: dfwgator on June 12, 2018, 02:26:32 pm
Part of the deal should be getting back the USS Pueblo.

The Norks have been using it as a museum to humiliate us.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 12, 2018, 02:29:32 pm
Obama was worried about the political ramifications of smacking that tarbaby. North Korea was contained so why even bring it up?
Trump obviously isn't a politician. His tweets make that obvious. Kim was ready to come into the 21st century and Trump was going to make it happen.
But this whole thing has the markings of Xi Jinping. He and Trump must have worked something out. North Korea calms down. The rest of Asia calms down. China keeps building up its military while everyone else happily makes shoes and toys.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 02:29:50 pm
So, what concrete verifiable steps did NK agree to take toward permanent denuclearization?  What time frame did they agree to?  What penalties did they agree to if they fail to carry through on concrete verifiable terms?

Very likely, none.  Nor was that anything that could possibly be accomplished during a personal meeting between Trump and Un.

First step is to get the leaders together to get an agreement in principle.  That's been accomplished.

Second step is to have underlings start hashing out the details you just mentioned.  So that's the next step.  Obviously, if that doesn't happen, then the first step is for naught.  But expecting something this huge to basically start with the second step is a (deliberately?) unrealistic expectation of the critics.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 02:29:56 pm
/snicker

Fancy German vocab wont save you.

Save me? I'm not the one circling the drain on this thread trying to convince people that the Trump/Rocket Man meeting wasn't a big effing deal.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 12, 2018, 02:31:08 pm
Part of the deal should be getting back the USS Pueblo.

The Norks have been using it as a museum to humiliate us.

If we ask for it back, it proves they were right that we are humiliated. If you watch some videos from people touring the North, almost all never heard of the Pueblo until they went to it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 02:31:40 pm
Trump decided that you can't negotiate unless you talk.  Obama apparently was given the asinine advice that playing the stern, silent father type was the way to proceed.  That is a negotiating strategy that has failed magnificently for decades.

It was no small matter to have gained Dennis Rodman and Kanye West (among others) to the president’s side bringing prospects of narrowing the black/white divide in American politics. An event that, in my opinion, could never have happened under any other of the republican presidential candidates Trump beat for the nomination.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 02:33:28 pm
The North has to drop their nuclear program. It represents a threat to China. They have no choice. Plus I believe they did it as a proxy for Iran.
The North needs food. If we can get North Koreans eating again, Kim can take credit for it. In return, everyone in that region quits worrying about North Korea and they may see some investment.

???

NK's nuclear program represents ZERO risk to  China.

In face, President Trump convinced them that being under the Chinese Nuclear Umbrella will be much better for the long term prospects for NK and its development, than continuing to pursue nukes themselves.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 02:34:21 pm
Line item 3, is more than a simple sentence.

Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

- - - - - -

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-northkorea-southkorea-summit-statemen/panmunjom-declaration-for-peace-prosperity-and-unification-of-the-korean-peninsula-idUKKBN1HY193 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-northkorea-southkorea-summit-statemen/panmunjom-declaration-for-peace-prosperity-and-unification-of-the-korean-peninsula-idUKKBN1HY193)

During this momentous period of historical transformation on the Korean Peninsula, reflecting the enduring aspiration of the Korean people for peace, prosperity and unification, President Moon Jae-in of the Republic of Korea and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea held an Inter-Korean Summit Meeting at the ‘Peace House’ at Panmunjom on April 27, 2018.

The two leaders solemnly declared before the 80 million Korean people and the whole world that there will be no more war on the Korean Peninsula and thus a new era of peace has begun.

The two leaders, sharing the firm commitment to bring a swift a swift end to the Cold War relic of longstanding division and confrontation, to boldly approach a new era of national reconciliation, peace and prosperity, and to improve and cultivate inter-Korean relations in a more active manner, declared at this historic site of Panmunjom as follows:

1. South and North Korea will reconnect the blood relations of the people and bring forward the future of co-prosperity and unification led by Koreans by facilitating comprehensive and groundbreaking advancement in inter-Korean relations. Improving and cultivating inter-Korean relations is the prevalent desire of the whole nation and the urgent calling of the times that cannot be held back any further.

1) South and North Korea affirmed the principle of determining the destiny of the Korean nation on their own accord and agreed to bring forth the watershed moment for the improvement of inter-Korean relations by fully implementing all existing agreements and declarations adopted between the two sides thus far.

2) South and North Korea agreed to hold dialogue and negotiations in various fields including at high level, and to take active measures for the implementation of the agreements reached at the Summit.

3) South and North Korea agreed to establish a joint liaison office with resident representatives of both sides in the Gaeseong region in order to facilitate close consultation between the authorities as well as smooth exchanges and cooperation between the peoples.

4) South and North Korea agreed to encourage more active cooperation, exchanges, visits and contacts at all levels in order to rejuvenate the sense of national reconciliation and unity. Between South and North, the two sides will encourage the atmosphere of amity and cooperation by actively staging various joint events on the dates that hold special meaning for both South and North Korea, such as June 15, in which participants from all levels, including central and local governments, parliaments, political parties, and civil organizations, will be involved. On the international front, the two sides agreed to demonstrate their collective wisdom, talents, and solidarity by jointly participating in international sports events such as the 2018 Asian Games.

5) South and North Korea agreed to endeavour to swiftly resolve the humanitarian issues that resulted from the division of the nation, and to convene the Inter-Korean Red Cross Meeting to discuss and solve various issues including the reunion of separated families. In this vein, South and North Korea agreed to proceed with reunion programs for the separated families on the occasion of the National Liberation Day of August 15 this year.

6) South and North Korea agreed to actively implement the projects previously agreed in the 2007 October 4 Declaration, in order to promote balanced economic growth and co-prosperity of the nation. As a first step, the two sides agreed to adopt practical steps towards the connection and modernization of the railways and roads on the eastern transportation corridor as well as between Seoul and Sinuiju for their utilization.

2. South and North Korea will make joint efforts to alleviate the acute military tension and practically eliminate the danger of war on the Korean Peninsula.

1) South and North Korea agreed to completely cease all hostile acts against each other in every domain, including land, air and sea, that are the source of military tension and conflict. In this vein, the two sides agreed to transform the demilitarized zone into a peace zone in a genuine sense by ceasing as of May 2 this year all hostile acts and eliminating their means, including broadcasting through loudspeakers and distribution of leaflets, in the areas along the Military Demarcation Line.

2) South and North Korea agreed to devise a practical scheme to turn the areas around the Northern Limit Line in the West Sea into a maritime peace zone in order to prevent accidental military clashes and guarantee safe fishing activities.

3) South and North Korea agreed to take various military measures to ensure active mutual cooperation, exchanges, visits and contacts. The two sides agreed to hold frequent meetings between military authorities, including the defence Ministers Meeting, in order to immediately discuss and solve military issues that arise between them. In this regard, the two sides agreed to first convene military talks at the rank of general in May.

3. South and North Korea will actively cooperate to establish a permanent and solid peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. Bringing an end to the current unnatural state of armistice and establishing a robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula is a historical mission that must not be delayed any further.

1) South and North Korea reaffirmed the Non-Aggression Agreement that precludes the use of force in any form against each other, and agreed to strictly adhere to this Agreement.

2) South and North Korea agreed to carry out disarmament in a phased manner, as military tension is alleviated and substantial progress is made in military confidence-building.

3) During this year that marks the 65th anniversary of the Armistice, South and North Korea agreed to actively pursue trilateral meetings involving the two Koreas and the United States, or quadrilateral meetings involving the two Koreas, the United States and China with a view to declaring an end to the war and establishing a permanent and solid peace regime.

4) South and North Korea confirmed the common goal of realizing, through complete denuclearisation, a nuclear-free Korean Peninsula. South and North Korea shared the view that the measures being initiated by North Korea are very meaningful and crucial for the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula and agreed to carry out their respective roles and responsibilities in this regard. South and North Korea agreed to actively seek the support and cooperation of the international community for the denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula.

The two leaders agreed, through regular meetings and direct telephone conversations, to hold frequent and candid discussions on issues vital to the nation, to strengthen mutual trust and to jointly endeavour to strengthen the positive momentum towards continuous advancement of inter-Korean relations as well as peace, prosperity and unification of the Korean Peninsula.

In this context, President Moon Jae-in agreed to visit Pyongyang this fall.

April 27, 2018

Done in Panmunjom

Moon Jae-in

President

Republic of Korea

Kim Jong Un

Chairman

State Affairs Commission

Democratic People’s

Republic of Korea

- - - - - - - - - -

https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/file/resources/collections/peace_agreements/n_skorea10042007.pdf (https://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/file/resources/collections/peace_agreements/n_skorea10042007.pdf)

Declaration on the Advancement of South-North Korean Relations, Peace and Prosperity

October 4, 2007

In accordance with the agreement between President Roh Moo-hyun of the Republic of Korea and
Chairman Kim Jong Il of the National Defense Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of
Korea, President Roh visited Pyongyang from October 2-4, 2007.

During the visit, there were historic meetings and discussions.

At the meetings and talks, the two sides have reaffirmed the spirit of the June 15 Joint Declaration
and had frank discussions on various issues related to realizing the advancement of South-North
relations, peace on the Korean Peninsula, common prosperity of the Korean people and unification
of Korea.

Expressing confidence that they can forge a new era of national prosperity and unification on their
own initiative if they combine their will and capabilities, the two sides declare as follows, in order to
expand and advance South-North relations based on the June 15 Joint Declaration:

1. The South and the North shall uphold and endeavor actively to realize the June 15
Declaration.

The South and the North have agreed to resolve the issue of unification on their own
initiative and according to the spirit of "by-the-Korean-people-themselves."

The South and the North will work out ways to commemorate the June 15 anniversary of the
announcement of the South-North Joint Declaration to reflect the common will to faithfully
carry it out.

2. The South and the North have agreed to firmly transform inter-Korean relations into ties of
mutual respect and trust, transcending the differences in ideology and systems.

The South and the North have agreed not to interfere in the internal affairs of the other and
agreed to resolve inter-Korean issues in the spirit of reconciliation, cooperation and
reunification.
The South and the North have agreed to overhaul their respective legislative and institutional
apparatuses in a bid to develop inter-Korean relations in a reunification-oriented direction.

The South and the North have agreed to proactively pursue dialogue and contacts in various
areas, including the legislatures of the two Koreas,in order to resolve matters concerning the
expansion and advancement of inter-Korean relations in a way that meets the aspirations of
the entire Korean people.

3. The South and the North have agreed to closely work together to put an end to military
hostilities, mitigate tensions and guarantee peace on the Korean Peninsula.

The South and the North have agreed not to antagonize each other, reduce military tension,
and resolve issues in dispute through dialogue and negotiation.

The South and the North have agreed to oppose war on the Korean Peninsula and to adhere
strictly to their obligation to nonaggression.

The South and the North have agreed to hold talks between the South’s Minister of Defense
and the North’s Minister of the People’s Armed Forces in Pyongyang in November to discuss
ways of designating a joint fishing area in the West Sea to avoid accidental clashes and
turning it into a peace area and also to discuss measures to build military confidence,
including security guarantees for various cooperative projects.

4. The South and the North both recognize the need to end the current armistice regime and
build a permanent peace regime. The South and the North have also agreed to work together
to advance the matter of having the leaders of the three or four parties directly concerned to
convene on the Peninsula and declare an end to the war.

With regard to the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula, the South and the North have
agreed to work together to implement smoothly the September 19, 2005 Joint Statement and
the February 13, 2007 Agreement achieved at the Six-Party Talks.

5. The South and the North have agreed to facilitate, expand, and further develop inter-Korean
economic cooperation projects on a continual basis for balanced economic development and
co-prosperity on the Korean Peninsula in accordance with the principles of common
interests, co-prosperity and mutual aid.

The South and the North reached an agreement on promoting economic cooperation,
including investments, pushing forward with the building of infrastructure and the
development of natural resources. Given the special nature of inter-Korean cooperative
projects, the South and the North have agreed to grant preferential conditions and benefits to
those projects.

The South and the North have agreed to create a “special peace and cooperation zone in the
West Sea” encompassing Haeju and vicinity in a bid to proactively push ahead with the
creation of a joint fishing zone and maritime peace zone, establishment of a special economic
zone, utilization of Haeju harbor, passage of civilian vessels via direct routes in Haeju and
the joint use of the Han River estuary.

The South and the North have agreed to complete the first-phase construction of the
Gaeseong Industrial Complex at an early date and embark on the second-stage development
project. The South and the North have agreed to open freight rail services between Munsan
and Bongdong and promptly complete various institutional measures, including those related
to passage, communication, and customs clearance procedures.

The South and the North have agreed to discuss repairs of the Gaeseong-Sinuiju railroad and
the Gaeseong-Pyongyang expressway for their joint use.

The South and the North have agreed to establish cooperative complexes for shipbuilding in
Anbyeon and Nampo, while continuing cooperative projects in various areas such as
agriculture, health and medical services and environmental protection.

The South and the North have agreed to upgrade the status of the existing Inter-Korean
Economic Cooperation Promotion Committee to a Joint Committee for Inter-Korean
Economic Cooperation to be headed by deputy prime minister-level officials.

6. The South and the North have agreed to boost exchanges and cooperation in the social areas
covering history, language, education, science and technology, culture and arts, and sports to
highlight the long history and excellent culture of the Korean people.

The South and the North have agreed to carry out tours to Mt. Baekdu and open nonstop
flight services between Seoul and Mt. Baekdu for this purpose.

The South and the North have agreed to send a joint cheering squad from both sides to the
2008 Beijing Olympic Games. The squad will use the Gyeongui Railway Line for the firstever
joint Olympic cheering.

7. The South and the North have agreed to actively promote humanitarian cooperation projects.
The South and the North have agreed to expand reunion of separated family members and
their relatives and promote exchanges of video messages.

To this end, the South and the North have agreed to station resident representatives from each
side at the reunion center at Mt. Geumgang when it is completed and regularize reunions of
separated family members and their relatives.

The South and the North have agreed to actively cooperate in case of emergencies, including
natural disasters, according to the principles of fraternal love, humanitarianism and mutual
assistance.

8. The South and the North have agreed to increase cooperation to promote the interests of the
Korean people and the rights and interests of overseas Koreans on the international stage.

9. The South and the North have agreed to hold inter-Korean prime ministers’ talks for the
implementation of this Declaration and have agreed to hold the first round of meetings in
November 2007 in Seoul.

10. The South and the North have agreed that their highest authorities will meet frequently for
the advancement of relations between the two sides.

Oct. 4, 2007
Pyongyang

Roh Moo-hyun
President
Republic of Korea

Kim Jong Il
Chairman, National Defense Commission
Democratic People’s Republic of Korea
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 02:34:46 pm
It's historic even if we get nothing because we already have nothing. If Kim gets some gravitas, it means nothing to us. If Trump goes in and builds 10 casinos, it's better than what we have now. There is no "lose" in this situation. Everyone but Putin wants this. Win-win.

This is absolute, 100% correct.  The hand-wringing over "optics" and "propaganda victories" is ridiculous.  Who freaking cares?  If NK fails to follow through, nobody is going to think this "propaganda victory" is worth a bucket of warm spit, because we'll be right back to where we were when military action seemed quite possible.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 02:35:27 pm
Part of the deal should be getting back the USS Pueblo.

The Norks have been using it as a museum to humiliate us.

Yeah, because no enemies we normalized relations with does that.....

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/09/24/remnants-of-the-vietnam-war-wrecks-captured-aircraft/3 (https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/09/24/remnants-of-the-vietnam-war-wrecks-captured-aircraft/3)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 02:36:12 pm

How about they give up their nuclear program and we don't throw our Allies (South Korea and Japan) under the bus.

Do you realize that South Korea wanted this meeting to happen very, very badly?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 12, 2018, 02:37:08 pm
Very likely, none.  Nor was that anything that could possibly be accomplished during a personal meeting between Trump and Un.

First step is to get the leaders together to get an agreement in principle.  That's been accomplished.

Second step is to have underlings start hashing out the details you just mentioned.  So that's the next step.  Obviously, if that doesn't happen, then the first step is for naught.  But expecting something this huge to basically start with the second step is a (deliberately?) unrealistic expectation of the critics.


Agreed.   The first step is just that - a first step.   But the genie's out of the bottle.    Every North Korean citizen will see the photo of Kim and Trump, and read the Joint Statement.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 02:38:14 pm
They’ll never acknowledge that Donald Trump built his career on his negotiation skills.


Probably because his legendary skills fit the original definition of factoid.

fac·toid (făk′toid)

1. A piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, and that is then accepted as true because of frequent repetition.


Trump Says He’s a Great Negotiator, But The Evidence Says Otherwise

It’s easy to identify examples that belie Trump’s claim that he is an excellent deal-maker. The airline he bought in 1988 for roughly $365 million closed down in 1992. The football team he bought in 1984 ended with the demise of United States Football League just two years later. His hotels and casinos have struggled to make money, declaring bankruptcy four times. Ironically, even Trump’s version of how skillfully he renegotiated loan terms with his bankers after going bankrupt has been debunked by those who were at the table.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/ (http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 02:38:27 pm
Sorry, but Trump-worship is just as offensive as Obama-worship, it not moreso given how so many Trumpalos knocked liberals for worshipping Obama.  I object to the worship.

@Oceander
The only worship around here is coming from you NTs
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 02:40:51 pm
If we ask for it back, it proves they were right that we are humiliated. If you watch some videos from people touring the North, almost all never heard of the Pueblo until they went to it.

Not all that many here have heard of it.

I heard about it a lot when I started school in the Air Force.  Since the one guy killed had the same job as I was training into.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 02:43:09 pm
Enough already with the NT's and ET's crap...this thread is about the Summit.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: dfwgator on June 12, 2018, 02:43:54 pm
Enough already with the NT's and ET's crap...this thread is about the Summit.

Oh, you're no fun, anymore.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 02:50:05 pm

Probably because his legendary skills fit the original definition of factoid.

fac·toid (făk′toid)

1. A piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, and that is then accepted as true because of frequent repetition.


Trump Says He’s a Great Negotiator, But The Evidence Says Otherwise

It’s easy to identify examples that belie Trump’s claim that he is an excellent deal-maker. The airline he bought in 1988 for roughly $365 million closed down in 1992. The football team he bought in 1984 ended with the demise of United States Football League just two years later. His hotels and casinos have struggled to make money, declaring bankruptcy four times. Ironically, even Trump’s version of how skillfully he renegotiated loan terms with his bankers after going bankrupt has been debunked by those who were at the table.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/ (http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/)

Trump's supposedly legendary deal-making/negotiating skills are being exposed as completely bogus.  Since becoming President, there just hasn't been a plethora of great deals.  No Mexico paying for the wall.  No "repeal and replace".  Now North Korea gets something they valued:  meeting with a US President and got the US to suspend "provocative" "war games".  The "great deal-maker" in Singapore sure appears to have been Kim when it comes to concrete, actionable achievements coming out of the summit. 

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 02:55:03 pm

Probably because his legendary skills fit the original definition of factoid.

fac·toid (făk′toid)

1. A piece of unverified or inaccurate information that is presented in the press as factual, often as part of a publicity effort, and that is then accepted as true because of frequent repetition.


Trump Says He’s a Great Negotiator, But The Evidence Says Otherwise

It’s easy to identify examples that belie Trump’s claim that he is an excellent deal-maker. The airline he bought in 1988 for roughly $365 million closed down in 1992. The football team he bought in 1984 ended with the demise of United States Football League just two years later. His hotels and casinos have struggled to make money, declaring bankruptcy four times. Ironically, even Trump’s version of how skillfully he renegotiated loan terms with his bankers after going bankrupt has been debunked by those who were at the table.

http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/ (http://fortune.com/2016/07/19/donald-trump-negotiating-the-art-of-the-deal/)

Like I said some folks will never acknowledge Donald Trump is rather talented, rising to the top in real estate, on television, and now in politics. They’ll never accept that Trump made those thing happen, in three different fields in one lifetime, through talent and skill, not luck.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 03:01:57 pm
Like I said some folks will never acknowledge Donald Trump is rather talented, rising to the top in real estate, on television, and now in politics. They’ll never accept that Trump made those thing happen, in three different fields in one lifetime, through talent and skill, not luck.

@aligncare
He's got the DNC back on their heels not knowing what to do or say and he's got the best shot at peace in nearly 70 years.

Maybe he's not a good negotiator but he's a heck of a lot better then Bush, Clinton, or Obama.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 03:03:49 pm
Like I said some folks will never acknowledge Donald Trump is rather talented, rising to the top in real estate, on television, and now in politics. They’ll never accept that Trump made those thing happen, in three different fields in one lifetime, through talent and skill, not luck.

I consider Trump to be an absolute master at promoting and marketing.  Whether it was his real estate, his TV program, or his Presidency, he’s masterful at promoting and marketing, especially himself IMO.  When it comes to deal-making though, I just haven’t seen a huge number of great deals that he's brokered since he took over as President.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 03:10:24 pm
I consider Trump to be an absolute master at promoting and marketing.  Whether it was his real estate, his TV program, or his Presidency, he’s masterful at promoting and marketing, especially himself IMO.  When it comes to deal-making though, I just haven’t seen a huge number of great deals that he's brokered since he took over as President.

He cut a deal with Congressional Republicans to enact the most sweeping, positive reform of corporate/business taxes ever.  That, alone, is a bigger positive "deal" than anything that has been done since Reagan.

You criticized his failure to make a deal on repealing ObamaCare, etc..  But here's the thing -- not even the greatest dealmaker in the world can bring two sides together if there actually is no solution that both see as better than the status quo.  Some deals just can't be made.

What a great dealmaker can do is bring together parties where there actually is middle ground acceptable to both, but they just haven't been able to get to that point.  The reforms to corporate taxes is a perfect example of that.  For decades, there has been a general acknowledgement that our nominal corporate tax rates were too high, and had too many exceptions.  But despite that acknowledgement -- even Obama agreed they needed reformed -- nobody could cobble together an agreement.  Trump did.  Because for all his foibles, when he sees a deal that is possible, he grabs it like a dog with a bone, and pursues it single-mindedly.

As someone who negotiates professionally for a living, it is very clear to me that Trump understands making deals much, much better than his political predecessors.  For them, it is always about the "optics" and the perceptions in the 24 hour news cycles.  He doesn't care about that.  He just cares about getting the deal done, and screw convention, protocol, and "the way things have always been done."  He's got a bucketload of flaws, but as a businessman, he does understand that dealmaking is about the end result, not the process.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 03:14:58 pm
@aligncare
He's got the DNC back on their heels not knowing what to do or say and he's got the best shot at peace in nearly 70 years.

Maybe he's not a good negotiator but he's a heck of a lot better then Bush, Clinton, or Obama.

What his detractors steadfastly refuse to understand is that every top executive had failures on their way to the top. You think Steve Jobs was always Steve Jobs!, the guy who got fired from his own company only to come back stronger, buy back his company and make it the Apple it is today.

The difference in a Steve Jobs and a Donald Trump is they never let the setbacks stop them. That’s true of every successful CEO.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 03:15:17 pm
He cut a deal with Congressional Republicans to enact the most sweeping, positive reform of corporate/business taxes ever.  That, alone, is a bigger positive "deal" than anything that has been done since Reagan.

That's one.  Do you really think any other Republican President couldn't have gotten tax cuts from a Republican House and a Republican Senate?  Of course, there's been plenty of other deals to be had:  "repeal and replace", Mexico paying for the wall, DACA, "irreversible" and "verifiable" denuclearization by North Korea.  Unfortunately, it sure appears to me that in this summit, Kim got more than he gave up.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 03:21:11 pm
That's one.  Do you really think any other Republican President couldn't have gotten tax cuts from a Republican House and a Republican Senate?

Bush had control of both houses of Congress for six years, and didn't make any significant changes to corporate taxes.  Trump did it in his very first year in office.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 03:22:31 pm
Trump could cure cancer, end world hunger, make ice cream healthy and some people still wouldn't give him any credit.  Because you know, he's Trump.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 03:25:21 pm

Agreed.   The first step is just that - a first step.   But the genie's out of the bottle.    Every North Korean citizen will see the photo of Kim and Trump, and read the Joint Statement.

Exactly -- how is that bad??

The thing is that the most dangerous time for a dictatorship is when the people start having hope.  People with no hope have nothing to fight for, and so they don't.  But if you give them a glimpse of a potentially much better future, and they are then denied that...they can get quite angry.

Some people are saying this is a propaganda victory for Kim.  I think that they are ignoring that NK national policy has been to absolutely demonize the U.S. for decades.  A picture of a U.S. President meeting with their leaders, and saying he wants peace...that is big.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 03:26:30 pm
That's one.  Do you really think any other Republican President couldn't have gotten tax cuts from a Republican House and a Republican Senate?  Of course, there's been plenty of other deals to be had:  "repeal and replace", Mexico paying for the wall, DACA, "irreversible" and "verifiable" denuclearization by North Korea.  Unfortunately, it sure appears to me that in this summit, Kim got more than he gave up.

You are just going to be intentionally obtuse because A) You hate Trump and nothing he does interests your Rockefeller Republican sensibilities and B) You hate Trump and nothing he does interests your Rockefeller Republican sensibilities.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 03:28:06 pm
BTW.......

Just more tangible evidence......Trump is GOD!!!!!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: dfwgator on June 12, 2018, 03:29:53 pm
BTW.......

Just more tangible evidence......Trump is GOD!!!!!

He's a God...not THE God.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 03:31:19 pm
   More proof it doesn't take much for Frank to get his panties wet.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 03:31:39 pm
Of course, there's been plenty of other deals to be had:  "repeal and replace", Mexico paying for the wall, DACA, "irreversible" and "verifiable" denuclearization by North Korea.

The last is premature, but as to the others, how do you know that there actually existed majorities willing to vote for repeal and replace, or that Mexico was actually willing to pay for the wall?  Some deals can't be made because there is no compromise that is acceptable to both sides.  That's the reality of negotiating.


Quote
Unfortunately, it sure appears to me that in this summit, Kim got more than he gave up.

What did he get that has any tangible value?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 03:40:46 pm
Opinion piece, CBC (Canada) calls it, of course, they aren't in the best of moods now after G-7:

Quote
Trump the 'great dealmaker' lets Kim Jong-un walk away with the spoils in Singapore
cbc.ca Keith Boag

Editor’s note: The opinions in this article are the author’s, as published by our content partner, and do not necessarily represent the views of MSN or Microsoft
.

The leader of the world's most repressive regime — who reportedly delights in ordering his political enemies in North Korea blown to smithereens with anti-aircraft guns or ripped apart by starving dogs — stepped out of his limousine on Singapore's Sentosa Island Tuesday morning to receive the priceless gift of a face-to-face meeting with the putative leader of the free world.

At that moment, Kim Jong-un notched the diplomatic coup that had eluded him, his father and his grandfather for decades: In front of the world, the despot was treated as an equal by the president of the United States.

Read more at: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trump-the-great-dealmaker-lets-kim-jong-un-walk-away-with-the-spoils-in-singapore/ar-AAyxVXt (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trump-the-great-dealmaker-lets-kim-jong-un-walk-away-with-the-spoils-in-singapore/ar-AAyxVXt)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 03:46:02 pm
Opinion piece, CBC (Canada) calls it, of course, they aren't in the best of moods now after G-7:

The left has been screaming “Trump will get us into a war!,” then they scream “Trump isn’t provoking Kim enough!”  22222frying pan
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 03:46:04 pm
The last is premature, but as to the others, how do you know that there actually existed majorities willing to vote for repeal and replace, or that Mexico was actually willing to pay for the wall?  Some deals can't be made because there is no compromise that is acceptable to both sides.  That's the reality of negotiating.


What did he get that has any tangible value?

I think truly great deal-makers can find a way to get what they want.

As for Kim, whether it's tangible or not, he definitively got more than he gave IMO.  Look, we may eventually get to an "irreversible" and "verifiable" denuked North Korea.  If we get there, I'll certainly celebrate it, but it sure seems to me like round one went to Kim IMO. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 03:50:51 pm
I think truly great deal-makers can find a way to get what they want.

As for Kim, whether it's tangible or not, he definitively got more than he gave IMO.  Look, we may eventually get to an "irreversible" and "verifiable" denuked North Korea.  If we get there, I'll certainly celebrate it, but it sure seems to me like round one went to Kim IMO.

From what I can tell the only thing Kim got was a delay in the war games.  That can change quickly so it's really not a win.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 03:54:25 pm
From what I can tell the only thing Kim got was a delay in the war games.  That can change quickly so it's really not a win.

I think North Korea dictators have been seeking legitimacy for decades.  Meeting with the US President certainly provides them that and a huge propaganda win at home......at least IMO.  As noted in the OpEd posted by TomSea above:

Quote
Before handing out Nobel prizes, though, it's important to see what happened in the way that Kim likely sees it. He's just enjoyed the most unimaginable success on the international stage in the history of his country. It was made possible by the fact of his nuclear weapons, so their value to him has proved itself. Does that really sound like the precondition that would persuade him to give up those weapons in the foreseeable future?

“Unimaginable success” sure sounds like a win to me. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 03:57:07 pm
The left has been screaming “Trump will get us into a war!,” then they scream “Trump isn’t provoking Kim enough!”  22222frying pan

As history is, we will not be able to come to a judgement of events, in 5, 10 or 15 years. Maybe we will know soon. What we do know, is the US made a sincere attempt for peace in that region.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 03:59:31 pm
At that moment, Kim Jong-un notched the diplomatic coup that had eluded him, his father and his grandfather for decades: In front of the world, the despot was treated as an equal by the president of the United States.

And that gets him...what, exactly?

On the flip side, Trump earned the right to claim that he went further than any other U.S. president in trying to work with the NK's.  If Kim doesn't follow through, then Trump's got more political capital to push for much more "robust" U.S. actions against North Korea.  The entire country -- the entire world -- will know that we exhausted every single other possible avenue to resolve the threat the NK's pose.

So ultimately, if we're talking about the propaganda value of this meeting, Trump actually came out ahead because the propaganda on his end may actually be useful.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 04:00:37 pm
I think truly great deal-makers can find a way to get what they want.

Could a truly great dealmaker get you to kill an innocent child, if that's what he wanted?

What could he offer that would make you do that?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 04:03:36 pm
Could a truly great dealmaker get you to kill an innocent child, if that's what he wanted?

What could he offer that would make you do that?

I don't have any children, but I think even suggesting killing children is reprehensible.  Have a good day.   :seeya:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 04:06:51 pm
Trust But Verify

(http://e.lvme.me/742y9c1.jpg)

"While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." - I Thessalonians 5:3

“For from the least of them to the greatest, all are greedy for gain. From prophet to priest, all practice deceit. They have treated My people's brokenness superficially, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace at all.  Were they ashamed of the abominations they committed? No, they were not at all ashamed. They did not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; when I punish them, they will collapse,” says the LORD - Jeremiah 6:13-15
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: truth_seeker on June 12, 2018, 04:13:11 pm
NK threads providing chance for NTs to demonstrate "shrinking" in plain sight dance", to the chorus of their Fakestream Media's choreography
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 04:13:33 pm
The left has been screaming “Trump will get us into a war!,” then they scream “Trump isn’t provoking Kim enough!”  22222frying pan

What a hoot! Rush is just now making this very point.

I guess this puts me on the cutting edge of societal evolution.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 12, 2018, 04:14:40 pm
NK threads providing chance for NTs to demonstrate "shrinking" in plain sight dance", to the chorus of their Fakestream Media's choreography

How is that relevant to the topic of this thread, other than to start the NT/ET fight up again?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 12, 2018, 04:15:31 pm
And that gets him...what, exactly?

On the flip side, Trump earned the right to claim that he went further than any other U.S. president in trying to work with the NK's.  If Kim doesn't follow through, then Trump's got more political capital to push for much more "robust" U.S. actions against North Korea.  The entire country -- the entire world -- will know that we exhausted every single other possible avenue to resolve the threat the NK's pose.

So ultimately, if we're talking about the propaganda value of this meeting, Trump actually came out ahead because the propaganda on his end may actually be useful.

Agreed.   Trump has shown his willingness to dispense with convention and conventional thinking,  and drill down to the heart of a problem.   We have North Korea at the bargaining table having signed a statement agreeing in principle to de-nuclearisation.  We have the most powerful man in Saudi Arabia suggesting Israel has the right to exist.    We have the makings of a true alliance against Iran.   We have the NATO countries spending more on defense than before.   We have provided arms to Ukraine, and kept our word in Syria regarding red lines.   We even have Russia saying it welcomes a reset in relations, noting that Trump can be expected to "keep his campaign promises".

No one was more critical than I was about Trump, prior to the election.   But especially when it comes to foreign policy, the man's a breath of fresh air.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 04:16:21 pm
How is that relevant to the topic of this thread, other than to start the NT/ET fight up again?

Because Trumpalos cannot assuage that bitter taint of insecurity they have unless all around them are worshipping Trump as fervently as they.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 04:18:21 pm
   @TomSea and @Maj. Bill Martin bring up a very salient point, we just can't possibly know what just transpired in Singapore, other than optics for awhile. 
   Sure didn't take this guy long to be shown the complete idiot that he was.

(https://owlworks.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/cpd140324-neville-chamberlains-brackets.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 12, 2018, 04:18:57 pm
Because Trumpalos cannot assuage that bitter taint of insecurity they have unless all around them are worshipping Trump as fervently as they.

Gee, thanks, 0.... **nononono*
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 04:19:31 pm
And that gets him...what, exactly?

On the flip side, Trump earned the right to claim that he went further than any other U.S. president in trying to work with the NK's.  If Kim doesn't follow through, then Trump's got more political capital to push for much more "robust" U.S. actions against North Korea.  The entire country -- the entire world -- will know that we exhausted every single other possible avenue to resolve the threat the NK's pose.

So ultimately, if we're talking about the propaganda value of this meeting, Trump actually came out ahead because the propaganda on his end may actually be useful.

It may very well get him an undefeatable internal political position which, depending on where he is on the anti-American spectrum, could make him more intransigent rather than less when it comes to future negotiations with the US.  Or it could go the other way.  We'll have to wait and see who in the upper power structure gets arrested and executed in the coming weeks and months. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: jpsb on June 12, 2018, 04:23:45 pm
Agreed.   Trump has shown his willingness to dispense with convention and conventional thinking,  and drill down to the heart of a problem.   We have North Korea at the bargaining table having signed a statement agreeing in principle to de-nuclearisation.  We have the most powerful man in Saudi Arabia suggesting Israel has the right to exist.    We have the makings of a true alliance against Iran.   We have the NATO countries spending more on defense than before.   We have provided arms to Ukraine, and kept our word in Syria regarding red lines.   We even have Russia saying it welcomes a reset in relations, noting that Trump can be expected to "keep his campaign promises".

No one was more critical than I was about Trump, prior to the election.   But especially when it comes to foreign policy, the man's a breath of fresh air.   

Well @Jazzhead, you and I don't often agree, but when you are right you are right. That was a
brilliant analysis. Great post.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 04:25:39 pm
Because Trumpalos cannot assuage that bitter taint of insecurity they have unless all around them are worshipping Trump as fervently as they.

@Oceander
Nothing but troll behavior from you today.  You have no argument and cannot stand that something good is coming from Trump so you go to your standard insult.   Doing nothing but insulting and seeking to inflame.

really pathetic
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 04:27:18 pm
@Oceander
Nothing but troll behavior from you today.  You have no argument and cannot stand that something good is coming from Trump so you go to your standard insult.   Doing nothing but insulting and seeking to inflame.

really pathetic

Why don’t you go read some of my other posts, where i respond to negative comments being made about the meeting.  Stop being a Trumpalo and go back to being a human being. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 04:31:26 pm
I think North Korea dictators have been seeking legitimacy for decades.  Meeting with the US President certainly provides them that and a huge propaganda win at home......at least IMO.  As noted in the OpEd posted by TomSea above:

“Unimaginable success” sure sounds like a win to me.

@Concerned
NK is bankrupt, yes they've obtained some income from Iran, Kuwait and of course China but the sanctions are having a huge effect.

How?  Less access to oil, gas, coal which directly impacts the ruling class.   Fewer luxuries, which directly impacts the ruling class.   

NK cannot afford to keep developing their rockets and nukes and while they have been helping our enemies I think there's a chance of stopping that connection.   Threat of war will not change their minds but access to the kind of world South Korea has, that just might end the war end the human suffering.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 04:32:14 pm
Why don’t you go read some of my other posts, where i respond to negative comments being made about the meeting.  Stop being a Trumpalo and go back to being a human being.

@Oceander
When you stop with the personal attacks then perhaps I will think of something else besides pathetic.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: MOD8 on June 12, 2018, 04:33:32 pm
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/995/832/9b7.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 12, 2018, 04:43:12 pm
Well @Jazzhead, you and I don't often agree, but when you are right you are right. That was a
brilliant analysis. Great post.

Thanks, @jpsb - I appreciate it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 04:43:48 pm
@WalshFreedom

He makes a propaganda video for North Korea, he stops our joint military exercises with South Korea, he puts the North Korean Flag up there right next to ours, and he says Kim Jong Un is a great man who loves his own people.

Uh...Trump is a tough guy?

No wonder Kim is smiling.

@kevindavis and on top of that he blamed his own country for Kim not keeping previous agreements.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 04:44:57 pm
@Concerned
NK is bankrupt, yes they've obtained some income from Iran, Kuwait and of course China but the sanctions are having a huge effect.

How?  Less access to oil, gas, coal which directly impacts the ruling class.   Fewer luxuries, which directly impacts the ruling class.   

NK cannot afford to keep developing their rockets and nukes and while they have been helping our enemies I think there's a chance of stopping that connection.   Threat of war will not change their minds but access to the kind of world South Korea has, that just might end the war end the human suffering.

@driftdiver

I'm not sure what whether North Korea is bankrupt or not has to do with my post.  The point I was trying to make was that Kim got something that his father and this grandfather couldn't get:  legitimacy.  He got that by meeting with the US President.  He also got Trump to suspend the "provocative"  "war games", and it doesn't appear as though we got anything in return.  One of the first rules of negotiation I learned was:  don't give up something without getting something in return.   It doesn't appear to me that we got anything (of substance) in return even though we gave North Korea a couple of things that they clearly value (whether we see value in them is immaterial).

I agree the sanctions are having effect, and I'm happy Trump isn't lifting them (as of now).  It appears that North Korea doesn't need "to keep developing their rockets and nukes".  They've already got them:

Quote
Kim Jong Un has dozens of nuclear warheads and the missiles to deliver them — one expert estimated it could take 15 years to destroy it all......."The high U.S. estimate is 60 warheads total, adding 12 each year," Lewis told NBC News. "The low estimate is around 30 warheads."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/north-korea-s-many-nuclear-weapons-how-rid-world-them-n882061 (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/north-korea-s-many-nuclear-weapons-how-rid-world-them-n882061)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 04:45:08 pm
Trust But Verify

(http://e.lvme.me/742y9c1.jpg)

"While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape." - I Thessalonians 5:3

“For from the least of them to the greatest, all are greedy for gain. From prophet to priest, all practice deceit. They have treated My people's brokenness superficially, saying, ‘Peace, peace,’ when there is no peace at all.  Were they ashamed of the abominations they committed? No, they were not at all ashamed. They did not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; when I punish them, they will collapse,” says the LORD - Jeremiah 6:13-15

QFT
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 04:45:49 pm
Well @Jazzhead, you and I don't often agree, but when you are right you are right. That was a
brilliant analysis. Great post.

@Jazzhead

+1
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 04:47:54 pm
   @TomSea and @Maj. Bill Martin bring up a very salient point, we just can't possibly know what just transpired in Singapore, other than optics for awhile. 
   Sure didn't take this guy long to be shown the complete idiot that he was.

(https://owlworks.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/cpd140324-neville-chamberlains-brackets.jpg)

Legitimate concern.

Neville Chamberlain probably didn't have a Bolton or Pompeo.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/4a/6b/8a/4a6b8a75393abf8aa346fa2120963fd2.jpg)

@corbe

One can say that anytime we are dealing with a foreign power I would suppose, an un-trusty one, it be Putin, Xi of China and so on.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 04:50:24 pm
I can't speak for anyone else, my knowledge of the deal is limited. So, we cancel the military exercises, that seems important to Kim.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 04:53:24 pm
Legitimate concern.

Neville Chamberlain probably didn't have a Bolton or Pompeo.

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/4a/6b/8a/4a6b8a75393abf8aa346fa2120963fd2.jpg)

@corbe

One can say that anytime we are dealing with a foreign power I would suppose, an un-trusty one, it be Putin, Xi of China and so on.

You can have "only the best people" working for you...but that doesn't mean squat if the other side says one thing to your face and does something totally different when they get back home.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 04:54:19 pm
Legitimate concern.

Neville Chamberlain probably didn't have a Bolton or Pompeo.


England only had that lightweight Churchill, who was warning everyone Hitler was not to be trusted.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 04:56:05 pm
I can't speak for anyone else, my knowledge of the deal is limited. So, we cancel the military exercises, that seems important to Kim.

They have been bitching about our joint exercises for decades.,  Usually every time there is some kind of RIMPAC summit or something involving the ROK and U.S. making agreements.  It's an excuse passed from grandpa to son to grandson in the current NORK Dynasty to not be a good actor on the world stage.

Up until now we recognized them for the grandstanding tantrum they are/were.

Trump's been the only one in recent memory to give in.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 04:58:16 pm
They have been bitching about our joint exercises for decades.,  Usually every time there is some kind of RIMPAC summit or something involving the ROK and U.S. making agreements.  It's an excuse passed from grandpa to son to grandson in the current NORK Dynasty to not be a good actor on the world stage.

Up until now we recognized them for the grandstanding tantrum they are/were.

Trump's been the only one in recent memory to give in.

Most of us already knew that.

For peace, it's not a big drawback.  Only for those looking for a drawback, I guess, we can fear a North Korean invasion now.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 04:59:21 pm

England only had that lightweight Churchill, who was warning everyone Hitler was not to be trusted.

Not sure if Churchill was an advisor to Chamberlain. Bolton and Pompeo are in that capacity for Trump.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: dfwgator on June 12, 2018, 05:06:26 pm
Chamberlain knew war was coming,  but also that Britain wasn't ready for it in 1938.   He signed knowing all it did was to buy time.   

Immediately afterwards,  Britain pretty much went on a war footing. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:06:36 pm

For peace, it's not a big drawback.  Only for those looking for a drawback, I guess, we can fear a North Korean invasion now.

Your self admitted limited knowledge of the situation is glaring in that statement.

The "drawback" is there was nothing important that came out of this talk for the U.S. or our ROK allies...but plenty of propaganda for the NORKS.  There's no details...no substance...just a lot of fluff and hot air.

And for anyone who knows anything about the Korean peninsula and the unstable nature of the leaders in the North...Lil Kim could very easily get back to Pyongyang and order his generals to implement the attack plan to reunite the two Koreas.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 05:08:39 pm
Not sure if Churchill was an advisor to Chamberlain. Bolton and Pompeo are in that capacity for Trump.


No the advisors to Chamberlain were just the Pompeo and Bolton of their day. They figured Germany just wanted to rebuild, become respectful again, and rejoin the European family.  Just let him have the Sudetenland – they are mostly Germans anyway – and everything will be just fine.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 05:11:59 pm
Your self admitted limited knowledge of the situation is glaring in that statement.

The "drawback" is there was nothing important that came out of this talk for the U.S. or our ROK allies...but plenty of propaganda for the NORKS.  There's no details...no substance...just a lot of fluff and hot air.

And for anyone who knows anything about the Korean peninsula and the unstable nature of the leaders in the North...Lil Kim could very easily get back to Pyongyang and order his generals to implement the attack plan to reunite the two Koreas.

We'll see.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 05:12:03 pm
The only ones criticizing this summit at this point is the American and international Left. I hope NeverTrumpers mull that over.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 05:12:20 pm

No the advisors to Chamberlain were just the Pompeo and Bolton of their day. They figured Germany just wanted to rebuild, become respectful again, and rejoin the European family.  Just let him have the Sudetenland – they are mostly Germans anyway – and everything will be just fine.

Maybe, maybe not.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:15:58 pm
Not sure if Churchill was an advisor to Chamberlain. Bolton and Pompeo are in that capacity for Trump.

Churchill was the canary in the cave trying to warn the world about Hitler...Chamberlain resented the fact that Winston was...in Neville's mind...undermining his efforts to placate Hitler.

So to try and shut him up Chamberlain made Churchill part of his cabinet as the  First Lord of the Admiralty.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 05:16:53 pm
   PM Chamberlain was also a Tariff Loving Conservative /JS
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:17:07 pm
The only ones criticizing this summit at this point is the American and international Left. I hope NeverTrumpers mull that over.

No not really.  Some of us are still living in reality and realize that other than a photo op this was a big nothing burger.  It didn't live up to the breathless hype the Trump cult built it up to be.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 05:24:51 pm
The only ones criticizing this summit at this point is the American and international Left. I hope NeverTrumpers mull that over.


The only ones buying into this sudden Kim Jong Un epiphany are ignoring seven decades of North Korean double dealing, treachery, and lying under a Kim family dynasty.  I hope they mull that over.


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 05:25:40 pm
No not really.  Some of us are still living in reality and realize that other than a photo op this was a big nothing burger.  It didn't live up to the breathless hype the Trump cult built it up to be.

Well I disagree..I think it was a historic moment...now we go into the Trust but Verify mode
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 05:30:45 pm
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl1VTm5vtnY#)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 05:34:43 pm
Well I disagree..I think it was a historic moment...now we go into the Trust but Verify mode

But there's nothing in the joint statement agreed to by Trump and Kim that allow us to "verify". 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 05:36:26 pm
(https://i.redditmedia.com/SPtqXAA7A0iFSMzPuUtuFlJ6JKP2StL6ar_ZlDRHEPI.jpg?w=432&s=104f1c3ae7cd3ee0d70444f77f22a92d)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 05:38:08 pm
Well I disagree..I think it was a historic moment...now we go into the Trust but Verify mode

 :amen:  We cannot know what will come of this in the end but it's definitely NOT  a nothing burger!  Not by any stretch!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 05:40:18 pm
Pompeo, #1 West Point grad, so take that experience.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 05:42:31 pm
But there's nothing in the joint statement agreed to by Trump and Kim that allow us to "verify".

We will have to wait and see what comes next..this was only the initial meeting with more to follow.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:42:43 pm
Well I disagree..I think it was a historic moment...now we go into the Trust but Verify mode

Historic in the fact we actually got the little despot to the table.  But that's as far as it goes.  This isn't Reagan at the Reykjavík Summit or Nixon going to China.

It's actually a propaganda and a tactical win for the NORKS.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:43:19 pm
But there's nothing in the joint statement agreed to by Trump and Kim that allow us to "verify".

Bingo.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 05:46:30 pm
Your self admitted limited knowledge of the situation is glaring in that statement.

The "drawback" is there was nothing important that came out of this talk for the U.S. or our ROK allies...but plenty of propaganda for the NORKS.  There's no details...no substance...just a lot of fluff and hot air.

And for anyone who knows anything about the Korean peninsula and the unstable nature of the leaders in the North...Lil Kim could very easily get back to Pyongyang and order his generals to implement the attack plan to reunite the two Koreas.

@txradioguy
Well anyone who knows anything about the Korean peninsula knows that if the North attacks the South any hope of reunification will evaporate.   He can kill a lot of people but he won't unite the people through force.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 05:47:40 pm
Historic in the fact we actually got the little despot to the table.  But that's as far as it goes.  This isn't Reagan at the Reykjavík Summit or Nixon going to China.

It's actually a propaganda and a tactical win for the NORKS.


Can't you guys just leave it at 'its a nuthingburger'?

Do you have to take it that ludicrous extra step and call it a catastrophe?


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 05:47:48 pm
Historic in the fact we actually got the little despot to the table.  But that's as far as it goes.  This isn't Reagan at the Reykjavík Summit or Nixon going to China.

It's actually a propaganda and a tactical win for the NORKS.

@txradioguy
The tactical situation has not changed.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 05:51:53 pm
We will have to wait and see what comes next..this was only the initial meeting with more to follow.

My suspicions are that this entire deal was crafty marketing and illusion for public consumption by BOTH egomaniacs representing their nations.

Both guys get to bask in the illusion of legitimacy, with only North Korea benefitting the most from the photo-ops, while Trump does what he does best: craft reality TV and marketing his image. 

Those are my suspicions about this entire "event".  When and if Lil' Kim allows UN inspectors into his country to verify that he has indeed de-nuclearized, will be the only evidence that Trump accomplished what he is selling and marketing.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:52:13 pm
Pompeo, #1 West Point grad, so take that experience.

West Point is a fine institution...and the Long Gray Line has produced some of the finest military leaders the world has ever seen.  But just because you graduate from there doesn't give you the experience needed to be a politician or hold a cabinet position.  Very rarely have military officers made good politicians.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 05:53:27 pm
My suspicions are that this entire deal was crafty marketing and illusion for public consumption by BOTH egomaniacs representing their nations.

Both guys get to bask in the illusion of legitimacy, with only North Korea benefitting the most from the photo-ops, while Trump does what he does best: craft reality TV and marketing his image. 

Those are my suspicions about this entire "event".  When and if Lil' Kim allows UN inspectors into his country to verify that he has indeed de-nuclearized, will be the only evidence that Trump accomplished what he is selling and marketing.

Trump has a plan.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:54:12 pm
@txradioguy
The tactical situation has not changed.

That remains to be seen.  I know USFK has said they haven't been notified of any changes to the joint training schedule...but that won't stop Kim from saying otherwise and using any joint exercise...to include EIB or EFMB competitions as an excuse to say the U.S. violated its promise in Singapore.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 05:54:40 pm
I don't have any children, but I think even suggesting killing children is reprehensible.  Have a good day.   :seeya:

Nice punt on your point that a great dealmaker should be able to get anyone to agree to anything.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 05:54:50 pm

Can't you guys just leave it at 'its a nuthingburger'?

Do you have to take it that ludicrous extra step and call it a catastrophe?

Ummm I didn't say that it was a catastrophe.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 12, 2018, 05:55:06 pm
Historic in the fact we actually got the little despot to the table.  But that's as far as it goes.  This isn't Reagan at the Reykjavík Summit or Nixon going to China.

So, what was the result of the first day of that visit?  Verifiable agreements or just a beginning of the work yet to come?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: endicom on June 12, 2018, 05:57:36 pm
   @TomSea and @Maj. Bill Martin bring up a very salient point, we just can't possibly know what just transpired in Singapore, other than optics for awhile. 
   Sure didn't take this guy long to be shown the complete idiot that he was.

(https://owlworks.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/cpd140324-neville-chamberlains-brackets.jpg)


Kim now has Sudetenland? Damn!

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 05:58:40 pm
West Point is a fine institution...and the Long Gray Line has produced some of the finest military leaders the world has ever seen.  But just because you graduate from there doesn't give you the experience needed to be a politician or hold a cabinet position.  Very rarely have military officers made good politicians.


Exactly.  The Class of 1915 included Bradley and Eisenhower.  The valedictorian was William Covell.  Who knows who he is without looking him up?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 05:59:51 pm
That remains to be seen.  I know USFK has said they haven't been notified of any changes to the joint training schedule...but that won't stop Kim from saying otherwise and using any joint exercise...to include EIB or EFMB competitions as an excuse to say the U.S. violated its promise in Singapore.

Which means jack squat related to the tactical situation.   Our troops there still have squadrons of F-16s ready to take off on short notice.  Many bombs are on base, probably some tactical nuclear since they were moved back recently.   We also have the troops in Japan.

SK military is always ready and they take it quite seriously.   So there is no increased risk of Kim trying to surprise us with a military attack.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 06:08:39 pm
Trump has a plan.

Well you go ahead and believe that.


I think his plans are limited to whatever strokes his ego and gets him the most exposure and applause or conflict and chaos to keep his mug on the front page and ever- present in the eyes of the people.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:09:29 pm
But there's nothing in the joint statement agreed to by Trump and Kim that allow us to "verify".

@Concerned
When they start returning remains of our fallen troops will that count as verification for point 4 of the agreement?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 06:09:47 pm
That remains to be seen.  I know USFK has said they haven't been notified of any changes to the joint training schedule...but that won't stop Kim from saying otherwise and using any joint exercise...to include EIB or EFMB competitions as an excuse to say the U.S. violated its promise in Singapore.

But...so what?  All that does is put us right back where we've been with them for decades, with them lying, propagandizing etc..  Which they'd do regardless of whether or not Trump went their.  So in terms of substance, they gain nothing, and we lose nothing by trying.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:10:18 pm
Well you go ahead and believe that.


I think his plans are limited to whatever strokes his ego and gets him the most exposure and applause or conflict and chaos to keep his mug on the front page and ever- present in the eyes of the people.

So in other words all plans are the result of ego?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 06:12:25 pm
That remains to be seen.  I know USFK has said they haven't been notified of any changes to the joint training schedule...but that won't stop Kim from saying otherwise and using any joint exercise...to include EIB or EFMB competitions as an excuse to say the U.S. violated its promise in Singapore.


Pentagon And Seoul Surprised By Trump Pledge To Halt Military Exercises

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s pledge on Tuesday to cancel military exercises on the Korean Peninsula surprised not only allies in South Korea but also the Pentagon.

******************

Lt. Col. Jennifer Lovett, a United States military spokeswoman in South Korea, said in an email that the American command there “has received no updated guidance on execution or cessation of training exercises — to include this fall’s schedule Ulchi Freedom Guardian.”

“We will continue with our current military posture until we receive updated guidance from the Department of Defense,” she added.

*********************

In Washington, officials at the Pentagon, State Department and White House were scrambling to figure out exactly the impact of Mr. Trump’s comments.

“The Department of Defense continues to work with the White House, the interagency, and our allies and partners on the way forward,” Lt. Col. Christopher Logan, a Pentagon spokesman, said in an email. “We will provide additional information as it becomes available.”


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/trump-military-exercises-north-south-korea.html


Now, keep in mind one of the reasons he wanted to make the change was because the exercises are 'very expensive.'  This is the same guy who justified signing the omnibus for the $700B to maintain military readiness and also asked the Pentagon to come up with a military parade plan for fall.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 06:12:25 pm
Only the professional diplomats care about the intangible minutia of flag placement and body language and photo ops.

Well for decades the professionals got us nowhere in this standoff. Instead they’ve only made matters worse by kicking the can down the road. Who are they to criticize this president?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 06:14:09 pm
How is that relevant to the topic of this thread, other than to start the NT/ET fight up again?

Start it up again? I guess you missed the previous 194 posts.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:21:19 pm



So Trump spends money on the military and you complain.  He doesn't spend and you complain.   I think I see a trend.

The fact is the military is always ready there.   Yes some extra resources are pulled in for the exercises but changing it won't cause a problem.  They have plans for just about any contingency.  Heck my first two years there we spent 3 weeks a month playing war.  That gave us a week to do a months work.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 06:23:40 pm
West Point is a fine institution...and the Long Gray Line has produced some of the finest military leaders the world has ever seen.  But just because you graduate from there doesn't give you the experience needed to be a politician or hold a cabinet position.  Very rarely have military officers made good politicians.

Your ignorance has been exposed, to quote you. You think anytime, you push a weak argument, just appeal to authority, well besides being the number 1 West Point graduate: Pompeo:

Quote
1. Pompeo, 52, graduated first in his class at West Point in 1986, with a major in mechanical engineering. His Army service included patrolling the Berlin Wall before it came down.

2. He continued his education at Harvard Law School after completing his active-duty Army service in 1991, and was an editor at the Harvard Law Review. He worked as a lawyer in Washington for several years, at the powerful law firm Williams & Connolly.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/18/10-things-didnt-know-mike-pompeo/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/11/18/10-things-didnt-know-mike-pompeo/)

And 8 more things and Director of the CIA. So, anytime, all you've got is throwing out weak arguments against people and parroting authority, Pompeo has it all over you. One can choose to engage in honest debate or just say "I know".
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 12, 2018, 06:29:53 pm
I am going to comment about this event while blissfully unaware of the ongoing discussion.  I've also missed the news cycle of the morning with its talking heads telling me what I saw last night.  Also blissful.

Anyway.  I came away encouraged.  Encouraged because, while my hopes were high, my expectations were low.  My sense is that Mr. Trump felt similarly.  But, he took a shot and continues to do so.  I gotta give him his props on that alone.  I see this as a process; and as it continues, it will be a process of starts and stops, hope and disappointment.  Ultimately, there will be success or failure.  But we need to be mindful there is all kinds of backchannel communication ongoing between the parties through direct lines and through surrogates.  If there is a Round 2 meeting between the principles, it will be because of a significant advancement in the conversation.  Basic, generic stuff, right?  Enough to keep me hopeful, and encouraged.  It is better this than to see ballistic missile launches across the Sea of Japan.

For trying, Mr. Trump gets the meaningless benefit of a thumbs-up from me.  The world is perilous beyond comprehension.  This is an effort - gamble - worth taking.  I will support it. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 06:31:36 pm
So Trump spends money on the military and you complain.  He doesn't spend and you complain.   I think I see a trend.


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/oRn7VHIf7orzW3FN8M12eg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz01NDk-/https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/build-wall-through-M.jpg.cf.jpg)


Same here.  I see a guy who throws shit at the wall, calls it art, and somehow gets people to agree.  Seems like the idea of postponing exercises might have been at least discussed with the Pentagon before the trip.  Keep telling us about his planning, however.


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 06:33:58 pm
Your ignorance has been exposed, to quote you. You think anytime, you push a weak argument, just appeal to authority, well besides being the number 1 West Point graduate: Pompeo:

And 8 more things and Director of the CIA. So, anytime, all you've got is throwing out weak arguments against people and parroting authority, Pompeo has it all over you. One can choose to engage in honest debate or just say "I know".

My you're sensitive today aren't you?  I suggest Midol.

What you posted is a fine resume...but it does nothing to counter what I said...that just because you graduate from West Point doesn't mean you're automatically more qualified than other people for specific jobs.  Military officers have traditionally turned out to be not so good politicians.

History...bears that out.  And no matter how much you proclaim your emotional attachment to Mike Pompeo...he hasn't been in any of the cabinet positions long enough to give him the fawning praise you want to give him.  He's had a good start at SecState...but that's just it...a start.


Quote
He continued his education at Harvard Law School after completing his active-duty Army service in 1991, and was an editor at the Harvard Law Review. He worked as a lawyer in Washington for several years, at the powerful law firm Williams & Connolly.

He spent a total of four years in the service.  Which means he got out as a Captain.  He spent the requisite time in the Army that is required upon admission to West Point to pay off the education they give you and nothing more.

I've spent 20 years now in the Army with combat tours in Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan as well as assignments in Europe and South Korea.


12-18 months as part of the Berlin Brigade is a routine assignment in the grad scheme of things.


Minus the Army service...which Harvard hates with a passion...he's got most of the same education that Obama did.  So he's checked all the Liberal boxes...which is a point of fact you'd hope everyone would ignore. 

So what was that about engaging in "honest debate"?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:36:57 pm
I am going to comment about this event while blissfully unaware of the ongoing discussion.  I've also missed the news cycle of the morning with its talking heads telling me what I saw last night.  Also blissful.

Anyway.  I came away encouraged.  Encouraged because, while my hopes were high, my expectations were low.  My sense is that Mr. Trump felt similarly.  But, he took a shot and continues to do so.  I gotta give him his props on that alone.  I see this as a process; and as it continues, it will be a process of starts and stops, hope and disappointment.  Ultimately, there will be success or failure.  But we need to be mindful there is all kinds of backchannel communication ongoing between the parties through direct lines and through surrogates.  If there is a Round 2 meeting between the principles, it will be because of a significant advancement in the conversation.  Basic, generic stuff, right?  Enough to keep me hopeful, and encouraged.  It is better this than to see ballistic missile launches across the Sea of Japan.

For trying, Mr. Trump gets the meaningless benefit of a thumbs-up from me.  The world is perilous beyond comprehension.  This is an effort - gamble - worth taking.  I will support it.

@Lando Lincoln
Amen and well said
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 06:37:35 pm
I am going to comment about this event while blissfully unaware of the ongoing discussion.  I've also missed the news cycle of the morning with its talking heads telling me what I saw last night.  Also blissful.

Anyway.  I came away encouraged.  Encouraged because, while my hopes were high, my expectations were low.  My sense is that Mr. Trump felt similarly.  But, he took a shot and continues to do so.  I gotta give him his props on that alone.  I see this as a process; and as it continues, it will be a process of starts and stops, hope and disappointment.  Ultimately, there will be success or failure.  But we need to be mindful there is all kinds of backchannel communication ongoing between the parties through direct lines and through surrogates.  If there is a Round 2 meeting between the principles, it will be because of a significant advancement in the conversation.  Basic, generic stuff, right?  Enough to keep me hopeful, and encouraged.  It is better than to see ballistic missile launches across the Sea of Japan.

Mr. Trump gets the meaningless benefit of a thumbs-up from me for trying.  The world is perilous beyond comprehension.  This is an effort - gamble - worth taking.  I will support it.

Curious....what will it take for you to address him as 'President' Trump and not "Mr. Trump"?    *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 06:40:13 pm
I am going to comment about this event while blissfully unaware of the ongoing discussion.  I've also missed the news cycle of the morning with its talking heads telling me what I saw last night.  Also blissful.

Anyway.  I came away encouraged.  Encouraged because, while my hopes were high, my expectations were low.  My sense is that Mr. Trump felt similarly.  But, he took a shot and continues to do so.  I gotta give him his props on that alone.  I see this as a process; and as it continues, it will be a process of starts and stops, hope and disappointment.  Ultimately, there will be success or failure.  But we need to be mindful there is all kinds of backchannel communication ongoing between the parties through direct lines and through surrogates.  If there is a Round 2 meeting between the principles, it will be because of a significant advancement in the conversation.  Basic, generic stuff, right?  Enough to keep me hopeful, and encouraged.  It is better this than to see ballistic missile launches across the Sea of Japan.

For trying, Mr. Trump gets the meaningless benefit of a thumbs-up from me.  The world is perilous beyond comprehension.  This is an effort - gamble - worth taking.  I will support it.
 

@Lando Lincoln

 :amen:  888high58888
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:41:00 pm


@txradioguy
Doesn't mean he's less qualified.

He's more qualified than anyone Obama had during his terms. 

But its really results.  and while folks like you want to see Trump fail I think this summit is a very good step in the right direct.   Its a chance to end the Korean war and while you can make Chamberlain jokes all day long it doesn't change the fact that peace is better then war.  Chamberlain was seeking peace through appeasement, just like Bush, Clinton, and Obama.

Appeasement is not what has been happening these last 6 months.

Oh and 20 years in the Army doesn't make you any more qualified then Pompeo.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 06:41:26 pm
              Definitely could use less Bread and Circuses

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/jw0LZkGbljGcHeWevjYywg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9NzU0O2g9NDIz/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/420ce83894e7887d1f1b81dd525e0ad9)

@corbe   I suppose you want to let them eat cake.  I know Rodman is a little 'different' but I watched that segment and it was actually quite touching.  Worth watching to see the look on liberal news guy when Rodman dissed Obama, saying Obama was not interested in improving relations with North Korea.  Hahaha.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 06:42:55 pm
Why don’t you go read some of my other posts, where i respond to negative comments being made about the meeting.  Stop being a Trumpalo and go back to being a human being.

But ... didn't you promise no negative gibes on this thread?  Or was that another NTer?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 06:44:09 pm
I am going to comment about this event while blissfully unaware of the ongoing discussion.  I've also missed the news cycle of the morning with its talking heads telling me what I saw last night.  Also blissful.

Anyway.  I came away encouraged.  Encouraged because, while my hopes were high, my expectations were low.  My sense is that Mr. Trump felt similarly.  But, he took a shot and continues to do so.  I gotta give him his props on that alone.  I see this as a process; and as it continues, it will be a process of starts and stops, hope and disappointment.  Ultimately, there will be success or failure.  But we need to be mindful there is all kinds of backchannel communication ongoing between the parties through direct lines and through surrogates.  If there is a Round 2 meeting between the principles, it will be because of a significant advancement in the conversation.  Basic, generic stuff, right?  Enough to keep me hopeful, and encouraged.  It is better this than to see ballistic missile launches across the Sea of Japan.

For trying, Mr. Trump gets the meaningless benefit of a thumbs-up from me.  The world is perilous beyond comprehension.  This is an effort - gamble - worth taking.  I will support it.

Excellent post..you speak for a lot of us here...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 06:44:13 pm
Ummm I didn't say that it was a catastrophe.

How about Trump handing an unstable nuclear ICBM armed dictator a 'tactical victory' for the sake of his ego would be a very very very bad thing, then.

You can't just leave it at 'nuthin'burger'?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:44:51 pm
But ... didn't you promise no negative gibes on this thread?  Or was that another NTer?

@Emjay
Careful or he'll put his mod hat on again and make snide remarks.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 06:44:55 pm
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl1VTm5vtnY#)

Now, that was funny.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 06:45:35 pm
   PM Chamberlain was also a Tariff Loving Conservative /JS

Is this a tariff thread now?  I thought we were talkin' summit.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 06:47:37 pm
@Emjay
Careful or he'll put his mod hat on again and make snide remarks.

Once again @Oceander has no Mod powers here...like everyone else he files a report...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 06:48:18 pm
No not really.  Some of us are still living in reality and realize that other than a photo op this was a big nothing burger.  It didn't live up to the breathless hype the Trump cult built it up to be.

What do you mean it didn't live up to the hype?  Did Trump and Kim not kiss at the end?  You have no idea on this earth (but that never stops you) what will result from this summit.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 06:51:29 pm

(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/oRn7VHIf7orzW3FN8M12eg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz01NDk-/https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/build-wall-through-M.jpg.cf.jpg)


Same here.  I see a guy who throws shit at the wall, calls it art, and somehow gets people to agree.  Seems like the idea of postponing exercises might have been at least discussed with the Pentagon before the trip.  Keep telling us about his planning, however.

Every day for you must effing blow......I love that.

(https://thefederalistpapers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/25660353_10215358768185294_8139493292668944511_n_480-1.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: catfish1957 on June 12, 2018, 06:53:12 pm
What do you mean it didn't live up to the hype?  Did Trump and Kim not kiss at the end?  You have no idea on this earth (but that never stops you) what will result from this summit.

I'll take the middle road.  Optimistic, but mostly pessimistic that Kim may be the person in the world least to trust.  Worst case he dupes Trump in getting military removed from Korea, while secretly maintaining his Nuclear arsenal.  Which won't be hard since his Iranian buddies will give him plenty of tips.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 06:53:32 pm
I am going to comment about this event while blissfully unaware of the ongoing discussion.  I've also missed the news cycle of the morning with its talking heads telling me what I saw last night.  Also blissful.

Anyway.  I came away encouraged.  Encouraged because, while my hopes were high, my expectations were low.  My sense is that Mr. Trump felt similarly.  But, he took a shot and continues to do so.  I gotta give him his props on that alone.  I see this as a process; and as it continues, it will be a process of starts and stops, hope and disappointment.  Ultimately, there will be success or failure.  But we need to be mindful there is all kinds of backchannel communication ongoing between the parties through direct lines and through surrogates.  If there is a Round 2 meeting between the principles, it will be because of a significant advancement in the conversation.  Basic, generic stuff, right?  Enough to keep me hopeful, and encouraged.  It is better this than to see ballistic missile launches across the Sea of Japan.

For trying, Mr. Trump gets the meaningless benefit of a thumbs-up from me.  The world is perilous beyond comprehension.  This is an effort - gamble - worth taking.  I will support it.

Thank you @Lando Lincoln   I gotta say you were wise not to waste time reading all the previous comments.  I read the first two pages and saw exactly what the next pages would be and skipped to the end.

We won't know until we know, and Trump made that clear in his speech prior to the meeting.

What we do know is that Trump made more of an effort than anyone has in many years and I don't see how anyone can fault him for that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:53:34 pm
Every day for you must effing blow......I love that.



@Frank Cannon
 888high58888 888high58888
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 06:54:08 pm
Is this a tariff thread now?  I thought we were talkin' summit.

   I was just noting the historical similarities between the two @Emjay, don't bust my balls this early.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 06:57:26 pm
@txradioguy
Doesn't mean he's less qualified.

Didn't say that he wasn't.  But ol Tom makes it sound like graduating from the Husdon High School for Boys is the end all be all of qualifications for office.

I'd remind him that Spencer Rapone is a West Point graduate as well.

Quote
He's more qualified than anyone Obama had during his terms. 

On that we agree too.

Quote
But its really results.  and while folks like you want to see Trump fail


And that's where you go off the rails of talking rationally.  I don't want him to fail.  Never have.  That's the fall back knee jerk response from anyone who views any critique of Trump as a personal insult.  You have to learn to not have such an unnatural emotional attachment to the man.  It's not healthy...its like someone getting upset at a member refers to Trump as "Trump" instead of "President Trump".


Quote
I think this summit is a very good step in the right direct.
   

Yes it is.  But again it's just that...its a step.

Quote
Its a chance to end the Korean war


We're a long way from that kind of talk like that.


Quote
and while you can make Chamberlain jokes all day long it doesn't change the fact that peace is better then war.


I made no jokes about Chamberlain.

Quote
Chamberlain was seeking peace through appeasement, just like Bush, Clinton, and Obama

And Trump....oh excuse me President Trump is appeasing Kim by saying he'll suspend joint exercises and blaming the U.S. for the Norks not living up to their end of previous agreements is appeasement.


Quote
Appeasement is not what has been happening these last 6 months.

And you know that how?  How do you know that appeasement isn't what got Kim to come to Singapore.

Quote
Oh and 20 years in the Army doesn't make you any more qualified then Pompeo.

That was the point I was trying to make.  Thank you for getting it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 06:58:19 pm
Curious....what will it take for you to address him as 'President' Trump and not "Mr. Trump"?    *****rollingeyes*****

When it comes to the difference between using Mr. Trump or President Trump, I be like: you say potatoes, I say patahtoes.

Besides, beats the more commonly used form, “that idiot in the White House.”
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 06:58:49 pm
Every day for you must effing blow......I love that.


I wish I could say I love the fact schadenfreude is the highlight of your life, but it’s actually quite sad.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 12, 2018, 06:58:53 pm
@Concerned
When they start returning remains of our fallen troops will that count as verification for point 4 of the agreement?

Yes but when I was talking about verification, I was really referring to the stated goal of “irreversible and verifiable denuclearization”.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 06:59:09 pm
@txradioguy

ugh you give me a headache
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 06:59:53 pm
   I was just noting the historical similarities between the two @Emjay, don't bust my balls this early.

Okay, probably have plenty of chances later.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 07:00:21 pm
How about Trump handing an unstable nuclear ICBM armed dictator a 'tactical victory' for the sake of his ego would be a very very very bad thing, then.

You can't just leave it at 'nuthin'burger'?

Please quote where I said that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 07:00:52 pm
Yes but when I was talking about verification, I was really referring to the stated goal of “irreversible and verifiable denuclearization”.

@Concerned
Well you didn't specify.   

That takes time, at the end of the day it will only happen if Kim and his power players think its better for them to stop then to keep the weapons.

And then you have the few hundred people working on his program, that will be in high demand in Iran and other places.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 07:01:35 pm
What do you mean it didn't live up to the hype?  Did Trump and Kim not kiss at the end?  You have no idea on this earth (but that never stops you) what will result from this summit.

I have a lot better...more realistic idea of what will become of this than you do or ever will.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 07:03:08 pm
Curious....what will it take for you to address him as 'President' Trump and not "Mr. Trump"?    *****rollingeyes*****

Now you're just being petty.

Most here refer to all Presidents by their last name...Clinton, Bush, etc
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 07:03:37 pm
@txradioguy

ugh you give me a headache

I worship the ignore option on this forum.  I don't even have a gas oven to stick my head into if I read all of @txradioguy posts.  I think he's gotten worse ... I remember him being more reasonable but .... memories ...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 07:06:05 pm
I worship the ignore option on this forum.  I don't even have a gas oven to stick my head into if I read all of @txradioguy posts.  I think he's gotten worse ... I remember him being more reasonable but .... memories ...

I thought I read where you put corbe on ignore?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: catfish1957 on June 12, 2018, 07:06:07 pm
Now you're just being petty.

Most here refer to all Presidents by their last name...Clinton, Bush, etc

I think they want us to refer him as "his most wonderful and royal highness".  Anything less would be disrespectful.   :whistle:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 07:09:10 pm
I worship the ignore option on this forum.

I honestly wish you'd use it with me instead of just claiming you do. 


Quote
I don't even have a gas oven to stick my head into if I read all of @txradioguy posts.


https://www.searsoutlet.com/Gas-Ranges/d/products.jsp?cid=470 (https://www.searsoutlet.com/Gas-Ranges/d/products.jsp?cid=470)   :whistle:


Quote
I think he's gotten worse ... I remember him being more reasonable but .... memories ...

I haven't changed one bit since I got here.  I've been consistent in my posting and my thoughts on Trump...what I support that he's done and what I think he's done wrong.  I don't have this weird emotional attachment to the man like some here do where they take every single critique of him as a personal insult. 

I also don't make nasty posts to people then hide behind the victim card.

But...memories...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 07:10:16 pm

I wish I could say I love the fact schadenfreude is the highlight of your life, but it’s actually quite sad.

@edpc

I wish that you, TBR's chief nattering nabob of negativity, would just STFU for a little while!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 07:12:10 pm
@txradioguy

ugh you give me a headache

Truth can be painful sometimes.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 07:13:02 pm


I wish that you, TBR's chief nattering nabob of negativity, would just STFU for a little while!


There’s an expression about wishing in one hand that fits your dilemma.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 07:14:07 pm
Truth can be painful sometimes.

@txradioguy
I was gonna give you credit for using a capital T in truth but then its the first word of the sentence so you lost credit.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 07:20:30 pm
Truth can be painful sometimes.

Oh, bother.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 07:23:29 pm
@txradioguy
I was gonna give you credit for using a capital T in truth but then its the first word of the sentence so you lost credit.

Well considering most of the writing I do for work has to be done in all caps...the fact I'm able to use upper and lower case on TBR is a win for me.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 07:25:33 pm

I wish I could say I love the fact schadenfreude is the highlight of your life, but it’s actually quite sad.

Don't panic dude......there's help.....

(https://i.imgflip.com/25tz1l.jpg)

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 07:25:47 pm
But ... didn't you promise no negative gibes on this thread?  Or was that another NTer?

True, but it was conditioned on there being substance, not photo op crap or fluff hagiography.  Conditions precedent weren’t fulfilled. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 07:26:38 pm
@Emjay
Careful or he'll put his mod hat on again and make snide remarks.

:bigsilly:

You think I’m a mod?  You are delusional. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 07:29:35 pm
Curious....what will it take for you to address him as 'President' Trump and not "Mr. Trump"?    *****rollingeyes*****
@Lando Lincoln  @DCPatriot

It's funny.  It used to be considered polite and showing honor to use "Mr."    Now, people get offended.

I think some people didn't pay attention in high-school English class, nor have read newspapers.  It was perfectly fine and considered respectful to say, "Mr. Carter," "Mr. Reagan," "Mr. Bush," "Mr. Clinton," "Mr. Bush," and "Mr. Obama"....but heaven forbid anyone says that with The Special Boy.  He has to be different.

 *****rollingeyes*****



Mr. Trump's hand has been forced, to engage with Kim, by the nuclear program being allowed to progress.  But let's remember that previous presidents could have met one-on-one with Kim -- Trump has done nothing special by arranging that.  Evidently, Trump was unable to get a multilateral meeting, or else he didn't want attention taken away from himself.  But, regardless, I hope we get a good deal out of it (note, I said "we" not "he", as they aren't necessarily aligned).
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Emjay on June 12, 2018, 07:30:26 pm
I thought I read where you put corbe on ignore?

I would never put @corbe on ignore.  We have a very warm and loving relationship.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 07:32:59 pm
   For weeks I've stated I will reserve opinion until we have something concrete besides the rhetoric and optics for I am a student of history.  I can clearly see that those among us that have a similar attitude are again attacked as NTer's and haters. 
   This doesn't bother me because I haven't lost sight of the most important fact ~ This is an Internet Political Forum and incidentally one of the best I've encountered due to the spectrum of intelligence and patience here.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 07:34:59 pm
And we likely can not make concrete judgements on this for awhile, maybe years.

Perhaps, other meetings are to come as well.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: catfish1957 on June 12, 2018, 07:39:28 pm
Don't panic dude......there's help.....


Trump Derangement Syndrome?

Since Trump himself is deranged, doesn't that make it a double negative?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 07:41:02 pm
@Lando Lincoln  @DCPatriot

It's funny.  It used to be considered polite and showing honor to use "Mr."    Now, people get offended.

I think some people didn't pay attention in high-school English class, nor have read newspapers.  It was perfectly fine and considered respectful to say, "Mr. Carter," "Mr. Reagan," "Mr. Bush," "Mr. Clinton," "Mr. Bush," and "Mr. Obama"....but heaven forbid anyone says that with The Special Boy.  He has to be different.   

The protocol for reporting--whether written or verbal--on the POTUS has always been to first refer to the man as "President" Trump, ("President" Bush, "President" Obama).... etc.  All subsequent referrals may be "Mr." Trump, ("Mr." Bush, "Mr." Obama).
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 07:43:41 pm
I think they want us to refer him as "his most wonderful and royal highness".  Anything less would be disrespectful.   :whistle:

Yeah, that's the same vibe I tend to get from those who are all aflutter when we do not address Trump with the respect they expect.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 12, 2018, 07:46:24 pm
I use the "Style Book" for use of the Honorific.  At first mention, it's "President Trump."  After that, it's just "Trump."
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: ABX on June 12, 2018, 07:46:28 pm
Just taking a moment to try to catch up. Have we offered to stop training with South Korea and give Lil'Kim glorious Trump Golf resorts yet?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 07:47:01 pm
   @Right_in_Virginia is this dressing down about the 'Mister' crap due to respect for the Office of the President or the Man occupying said office, I ask because I never even spelt obummer's name right nor capitalized it?

    When I saw @DCPatriot's critique of @Lando Lincoln's excellent post even I figured he was just trolling, Shirley, he wasn't serious?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 07:48:45 pm
Just taking a moment to try to catch up. Have we offered to stop training with South Korea and give Lil'Kim glorious Trump Golf resorts yet?

We did offer to stop doing military exercises with SK.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 07:50:23 pm
The protocol for reporting--whether written or verbal--on the POTUS has always been to first refer to the man as "President" Trump, ("President" Bush, "President" Obama).... etc.  All subsequent referrals may be "Mr." Trump, ("Mr." Bush, "Mr." Obama).

Who? Obastard?  I don’t recall you being quite so wound up about the style book niceties when Obastard was in office. But now that orange is the new black, well .....
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 07:50:32 pm
Just taking a moment to try to catch up. Have we offered to stop training with South Korea and give Lil'Kim glorious Trump Golf resorts yet?

    Tomorrow Ivanka will have 27 Trademark protections approved on dresses made out of dirt and straw, though.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 12, 2018, 07:50:51 pm
The protocol for reporting--whether written or verbal--on the POTUS has always been to first refer to the man as "President" Trump, ("President" Bush, "President" Obama).... etc.  All subsequent referrals may be "Mr." Trump, ("Mr." Bush, "Mr." Obama).

He called me right after he was elected and said I could still use Donny.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: ABX on June 12, 2018, 07:50:52 pm
We did offer to stop doing military exercises with SK.

Thanks. Looks like they got beach resorts instead of golf courses. What a rip off.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834437/They-great-beaches-Trump-showed-Kim-iPad-video-North-Koreas-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834437/They-great-beaches-Trump-showed-Kim-iPad-video-North-Koreas-future.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 07:51:33 pm
Just taking a moment to try to catch up. Have we offered to stop training with South Korea and give Lil'Kim glorious Trump Golf resorts yet?

Nah, you weren't catching up.  Methinks it took you this long to post something you think is clever.   :smokin:   

You shouldn't have rushed it.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 07:52:03 pm
The protocol for reporting--whether written or verbal--on the POTUS has always been to first refer to the man as "President" Trump, ("President" Bush, "President" Obama).... etc.  All subsequent referrals may be "Mr." Trump, ("Mr." Bush, "Mr." Obama).

Like any of us did so during Obama's reign.

I've always referenced the guy in the Oval Orifice by their last name, with the exception of LBJ who only deserves 3 letters of my time, Clinton who I also referenced as Slick, or Obama whom I also referenced as His Heinous.  Carter was Carter, Bush was Bush, Reagan was Reagan.

It's ridiculous if you think we're gonna start playing protocols to your satisfaction simply because your idol is the prez.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 07:52:35 pm
He called me right after he was elected and said I could still use Donny.

And "God" ... don't forget "God".   :laugh:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 07:53:05 pm
Just taking a moment to try to catch up. Have we offered to stop training with South Korea and give Lil'Kim glorious Trump Golf resorts yet?

No golf courses...yet.  But without warning the ROK Government the President did agree to suspend joint training with our allies on the Peninsula.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 07:55:48 pm
When it comes to the difference between using Mr. Trump or President Trump, I be like: you say potatoes, I say patahtoes.

Besides, beats the more commonly used form, “that idiot in the White House.”

My point was that @Lando Lincoln chooses his words carefully.

It's deliberate.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 07:59:38 pm
Thanks. Looks like they got beach resorts instead of golf courses. What a rip off.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834437/They-great-beaches-Trump-showed-Kim-iPad-video-North-Koreas-future.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5834437/They-great-beaches-Trump-showed-Kim-iPad-video-North-Koreas-future.html)

We had a beach when I was there.  It was pretty nice actually.   Well except for the spy boats offshore, landmines, and weapons emplacements that surrounded it.  Oh and it was kinda rocky and the water was colder then hades.

Some good fishing, great shellfish, and awesome pearl diving.   Swimming, eh not so much.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 12, 2018, 08:04:12 pm
He called me right after he was elected and said I could still use Donny.

It is Uncle Donny and he prefers the toilet seat down.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 08:04:40 pm
Like any of us did so during Obama's reign.

I've always referenced the guy in the Oval Orifice by their last name, with the exception of LBJ who only deserves 3 letters of my time, Clinton who I also referenced as Slick, or Obama whom I also referenced as His Heinous.  Carter was Carter, Bush was Bush, Reagan was Reagan.

It's ridiculous if you think we're gonna start playing protocols to your satisfaction simply because your idol is the prez.

I didn't write the damn protocols.   I'm simply quoting them.  The critical protocol is:  the first time the man is referred to, he is addressed as "President" Invar.  (Good God forbid)

My God man, if you won't go outside and mingle with real, live people ... at least open a window for some fresh air.  You're starting to sound a little disconnected from the world......   I'll keep you in my prayers.   


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 08:05:44 pm
My point was that @Lando Lincoln chooses his words carefully.

It's deliberate.

So if we go back through your posting history and find you referring to the President as simply "Trump"...is that a deliberate slight to the man as well?

Or is this just your inelegant way of trolling @Lando Lincoln and not giving him credit for making a positive post about the President?


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 08:05:47 pm
My point was that @Lando Lincoln chooses his words carefully.

It's deliberate.

No it's not...

I suggest all of you complaining that *President* is not in front of Trump go and clean up your own house...I just looked at several members here past posting after Trump was elected using just Trump...

So you all do it!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 08:07:10 pm
"President" Invar.  (Good God forbid)


At least we know the campaign posters would be good.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 08:07:31 pm

There’s an expression about wishing in one hand that fits your dilemma.

Yeah!  I'm aware of that expression and all your nattering is accomplishing much the same thing while pissing off nearly everyone else here.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 08:08:04 pm
No it's not...

I suggest all of you complaining that *President* is not in front of Trump go and clean up your own house...I just looked at several members here past posting after Trump was elected using just Trump...

So you all do it!

Can we talk about Melanias fashions now.  We need more pictures of pretty women and cleavage.  There was a good cleavage pic from the G7.   that spruced up the place
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 08:13:09 pm
No it's not...

I suggest all of you complaining that *President* is not in front of Trump go and clean up your own house...I just looked at several members here past posting after Trump was elected using just Trump...

So you all do it!


The hell it isn't.

And the use of 'TRUMP' by itself, is normally one of disdain.   See: Obama.

Furthermore....this isn't about the use of 'Trump' by itself.   Everybody is 'guilty' of typing that simply out of efficiency.

Typing "Mr. Trump"....twice...never referring to his title is a tell. 

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 08:15:42 pm
Quote
Everybody is 'guilty' of typing that simply out of efficiency.

That's exactly what it is..nothing more nothing less..
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 08:15:59 pm
It is Uncle Donny and he prefers the toilet seat down.

Funny...he told me it's "Donnie", and that only Carolin Gallego is allowed to call him Donny.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 08:17:13 pm
Yeah!  I'm aware of that expression and all your nattering is accomplishing much the same thing while pissing off nearly everyone else here.


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/TJ4ZYeEMMdPxZ6c19.DvYQ--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0yOTQ7dz01MDA-/http://cdn.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2010/02/wahmbulance_b4be0.jpg.cf.jpg)


I hope there’s enough room for all of you.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 08:17:30 pm

The hell it isn't.

And the use of 'TRUMP' by itself, is normally one of disdain.   See: Obama.

Furthermore....this isn't about the use of 'Trump' by itself.   Everybody is 'guilty' of typing that simply out of efficiency.

Typing "Mr. Trump"....twice...never referring to his title is a tell.

So you're clairvoyant now? 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 08:18:17 pm
That's exactly what it is..nothing more nothing less..

(http://t-ec.bstatic.com/images/hotel/max1280x900/961/96158256.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 12, 2018, 08:18:48 pm
The argument over whether "Trump" is sufficiently respectful is just someone looking for a fight.

My pet peeve is when people use their own cute nicknames for people because they think it is clever/funny, like "Obummer" or "McStain", etc..  Just call the dude (or dudette) by their name.  Honorific optional.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 08:19:20 pm

(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/TJ4ZYeEMMdPxZ6c19.DvYQ--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD0yOTQ7dz01MDA-/http://cdn.crooksandliars.com/files/uploads/2010/02/wahmbulance_b4be0.jpg.cf.jpg)


I hope there’s enough room for all of you.

Did you know that  Donald Trump is still President of the United States  despite all your nattering?   It's true!  Like it or not.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 08:21:14 pm
The argument over whether "Trump" is sufficiently respectful is just someone looking for a fight.

Exactly.

Quote
My pet peeve is when people use their own cute nicknames for people because they think it is clever/funny, like "Obummer" or "McStain", etc.. 

Or Rocket Man...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 08:21:54 pm
   Ask and ye shall receive @driftdiver

(http://liftn.com/wp-content/uploads/trump13-958x1024.png)

   For the Ladies:

(https://static.lexpress.fr/medias_11185/w_640,c_fill,g_north/3407-trump-real-estate-empire-1_5726967.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 08:22:10 pm
My point was that @Lando Lincoln chooses his words carefully.

It's deliberate.

@DCPatriot

I choose my words carefully, too.  Often, I try hard to remember to remove "Mr." from names (to fit in more with this informal setting), but it's a difficult habit, as I was formerly a newspaper editor and I know my history..."Mr." was considered even more honorific than titles like "President" back in the day.

For example, here's a post where I use "Mr. Trump" back in July 2016... I'm sure I should have genuflected and used "President Trump" even before he was elected, right? http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,215473.msg962409.html#msg962409 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,215473.msg962409.html#msg962409)

You see, some of us are well educated, and it looks like @Lando Lincoln is.  So rather than looking for trouble, how about focusing on the topic at hand.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 08:23:06 pm
No it's not...

I suggest all of you complaining that *President* is not in front of Trump go and clean up your own house...I just looked at several members here past posting after Trump was elected using just Trump...

So you all do it!

Oh, crap, I wanted to stay out this ... but.... @mystery-ak   The point is, as I see it, @Lando Lincoln carefully chose to call the POTUS "Mr. Trump".  Had LL simply posted "Trump" he would not have faced the question.  But @Lando Lincoln specifically chose not to call Donald Trump "President" Trump.

Here's why this matters:  Look at LL's posting history ... which is very unique.  He is the only Briefer who is able to drive on the dividing line of a two way highway without even denting his car.  He can do this precisely because every syllable he posts is done with great care and balance --- to prevent knocking himself into oncoming traffic.  LL has a gift .... of sorts.

Point being:  LL chose "Mr" over "President" -- a subtle diss at the POTUS.  But this time he got clipped by oncoming traffic.   ^-^


@DCPatriot


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 08:23:08 pm
The argument over whether "Trump" is sufficiently respectful is just someone looking for a fight.

My pet peeve is when people use their own cute nicknames for people because they think it is clever/funny, like "Obummer" or "McStain", etc..  Just call the dude (or dudette) by their name.  Honorific optional.

I do it for Mclame on purpose, to show a lack of respect.  because he's burned that bridge

As for obummer, I reserve the right to disrespect traitors
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 08:23:09 pm
The argument over whether "Trump" is sufficiently respectful is just someone looking for a fight.

My pet peeve is when people use their own cute nicknames for people because they think it is clever/funny, like "Obummer" or "McStain", etc..  Just call the dude (or dudette) by their name.  Honorific optional.

 888high58888
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 12, 2018, 08:23:09 pm

The hell it isn't.

And the use of 'TRUMP' by itself, is normally one of disdain.   See: Obama.

Furthermore....this isn't about the use of 'Trump' by itself.   Everybody is 'guilty' of typing that simply out of efficiency.

Typing "Mr. Trump"....twice...never referring to his title is a tell.

Even if all of this were true, and I don't believe it is, so what?  It doesn't affect one single thing, anywhere, ever, except you getting torqued off about it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 08:24:35 pm
   Ask and ye shall receive @driftdiver

(http://liftn.com/wp-content/uploads/trump13-958x1024.png)

   For the Ladies:


OK I forgive you for some of the things youve done, thank you
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 08:25:33 pm
@DCPatriot

I choose my words carefully, too.  Often, I try hard to remember to remove "Mr." from names (to fit in more with this informal setting), but it's a difficult habit, as I was formerly a newspaper editor and I know my history..."Mr." was considered even more honorific than titles like "President" back in the day.

For example, here's a post where I use "Mr. Trump" back in July 2016... I'm sure I should have genuflected and used "President Trump" even before he was elected, right? http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,215473.msg962409.html#msg962409 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,215473.msg962409.html#msg962409)

You see, some of us are well educated, and it looks like @Lando Lincoln is.  So rather than looking for trouble, how about focusing on the topic at hand.


Ahhh yes the AP Style Guide.  The Bible of print writers everywhere.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 08:28:02 pm

Ahhh yes the AP Style Guide.  The Bible of print writers everywhere.

Yes, though I created my own style guide for the papers I ran.  I abhor their timidity with an Oxford comma!  It's too easy to miss when you need it, and then you get someone welcoming the United States and its territories, Canada and Mexico!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 08:29:04 pm
Oh, crap, I wanted to stay out this ... but.... @mystery-ak   The point is, as I see it, @Lando Lincoln carefully chose to call the POTUS "Mr. Trump".  Had LL simply posted "Trump" he would not have faced the question.  But @Lando Lincoln specifically chose not to call Donald Trump "President" Trump.

Here's why this matters:  Look at LL's posting history ... which is very unique.  He is the only Briefer who is able to drive on the dividing line of a two way highway without even denting his car.  He can do this precisely because every syllable he posts is done with great care and balance --- to prevent knocking himself into oncoming traffic.  LL has a gift .... of sorts.

Point being:  LL chose "Mr" over "President" -- a subtle diss at the POTUS.  But this time he got clipped by oncoming traffic.   ^-^

You're GD right, @Right_in_Virginia

Spot on!

Disappears for months....we all have lives and what comes with it....and here it is again.   Riding that GD fence again.  Playing the Sage.

We who've been together for decades know these things.....it's not clairvoyance.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: dfwgator on June 12, 2018, 08:29:34 pm
Yes, though I created my own style guide for the papers I ran.  I abhor their timidity with an Oxford comma!  It's too easy to miss when you need it, and then you get someone welcoming the United States and its territories, Canada and Mexico!

Let's eat Grandma.

Let's eat, Grandma.


Commas save lives!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 08:30:25 pm
You're GD right, @Right_in_Virginia

Spot on!

Disappears for months....we all have lives and what comes with it....and here it is again.   Riding that GD fence again.  Playing the Sage.

We who've been together for decades know these things.....it's not clairvoyance.

Yup ... like I said .. it's a gift--of sorts.   :beer:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 08:31:11 pm
Oh, crap, I wanted to stay out this ... but.... @mystery-ak   The point is, as I see it, @Lando Lincoln



Point being:  LL chose "Mr" over "President" -- a subtle diss at the POTUS.  But this time he got clipped by oncoming traffic.   ^-^


@DCPatriot

@Right_in_Virginia

You mean by you and DCP,  the two sorest winners in history?   That's truly funny!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 08:32:42 pm
OK I forgive you for some of the things youve done, thank you

   Thanks @driftdiver that means a lot to me, our relationship here has been quite contentious lately and I'm not laying all the blame in your ball court.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 08:33:54 pm
Did you know that Donald Trump is still President of the United States despite all your nattering?


I had my suspicions, since it didn’t do anything for 8 years to remove the previous occupant.



Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 08:34:32 pm
You're GD right, @Right_in_Virginia

Spot on!

Disappears for months....we all have lives and what comes with it....and here it is again.   Riding that GD fence again.  Playing the Sage.

We who've been together for decades know these things.....it's not clairvoyance.

Lando's family has had some medical problems which he was taking care of...and to think you two used to be good friends...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 12, 2018, 08:35:51 pm
You're GD right, @Right_in_Virginia

Spot on!

Disappears for months....we all have lives and what comes with it....and here it is again.   Riding that GD fence again.  Playing the Sage.

We who've been together for decades know these things.....it's not clairvoyance.

I say we check the posting history of you and the rest of the little Gang of 8 and find out how many times you guys have referred to the President simply as "Trump".

You're just further proving the point that you absolutely refuse to let anyone say or get away with saying anything positive about the President that hasn't had their lips firmly affixed to his posterior for the last three years the way you and a handful of others here clearly have and still do.

It's not enough that members here who might not have voted for Trump (ooops look what I did!  *****rollingeyes*****) find thigns he's done good on and give him credit where credit is due.  You expect...no you DEMAND 100% blind fealty to everything the man does 100% of the time form every member here or they are just sh*t on your shoe.

It's pathetic on your part. And it makes you part of the problem that leads to the split and constant hostility between the members.

And at this point I think you WANT it that way.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 08:36:53 pm
Let's eat Grandma.

Let's eat, Grandma.


Commas save lives!

That's my coffee mug!  ^-^
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Lando Lincoln on June 12, 2018, 08:37:34 pm
I no longer care to participate. That I have judged by a comment I only intended as 100% respectful (yes, it is true) is enough. That I have been accused, impugned and indicted because of a “tell” says more about others than it does me.

Write what you will. I’m done.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 08:38:08 pm
    Adulation to the current occupant of the Oval Office takes president over everything we held so dearly just a few short years ago......SAD
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 12, 2018, 08:39:05 pm
Ah, so the funnies have started coming out...


(https://i.imgur.com/xHHdgFy.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 08:44:51 pm
I no longer care to participate. That I have judged by a comment I only intended as 100% respectful (yes, it is true) is enough. That I have been accused, impugned and indicted because of a “tell” says more about others than it does me.

Write what you will. I’m done.

@Lando Lincoln

And they thus accomplish their goal.  I must admit that I am damned close to doing the same and leaving them to their now expanded safe space.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 08:45:16 pm
Lando's family has had some medical problems which he was taking care of...and to think you two used to be good friends...

He was 'Family'.

....and so were you.    ^-^
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 08:45:37 pm
I no longer care to participate. That I have judged by a comment I only intended as 100% respectful (yes, it is true) is enough. That I have been accused, impugned and indicted because of a “tell” says more about others than it does me.

Write what you will. I’m done.

Don't let two people with their sanctimonious bull shit run you off!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 08:46:36 pm
@Lando Lincoln

And they thus accomplish their goal.  I must admit that I am damned close to doing the same and leaving them to their now expanded safe space.

See my post #363...please
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 08:46:56 pm
Even if all of this were true, and I don't believe it is, so what?  It doesn't affect one single thing, anywhere, ever, except you getting torqued off about it.

Exactly.

They are still, one and a half years in, trying to control the language used re: all things Trump.  It's idiotic.  Not to mention an ongoing attempt at censorship (can't show disrespect for Mr. Trump!  Heaven forbid!).

I'm calling him Mr. Trump from now on.  Whenever someone tries to control what is said (their version of PC), I usually do and say the opposite of what they want said (just funny that way).

The scant few authoritarians here really need to learn that words and actions have consequences.  I still remember having my posts deleted and censored during the GOP primaries by these same posters.  And yeah, it still pisses me off.




Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 08:47:13 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

You mean by you and DCP,  the two sorest winners in history?   That's truly funny!

Well, I'm glad you're laughing @Bigun   But what the hell does winning have to do with this?   

But, just between you and me,  IF I am sore, my friend ... it's because of all the dancing!!    :elephant:

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 08:48:08 pm
Don't let two people with their sanctimonious bull shit run you off!

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 08:50:22 pm
See my post #363...please

@mystery-ak

I saw it and want you to know that none of this is your fault but I'm sorely tired of the endless sniping with very little,  if any, discussion of anything substantive ever.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 08:53:40 pm
Well, I'm glad you're laughing @Bigun   But what the hell does winning have to do with this?   

But, just between you and me,  IF I am sore, my friend ... it's because of all the dancing!!    :elephant:

Have you noticed that the population of this place has dropped off quite a bit in recent months?   You an DCP should be really proud of yourselves for that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 12, 2018, 08:54:02 pm
Perhaps all of you should follow my lead and refuse to participate. It's mind over matter. I don't mind because they don't matter.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 08:56:56 pm
Lando's family has had some medical problems which he was taking care of...and to think you two used to be good friends...
 

I know nothing about @Lando Lincoln 's personal life @mystery-ak  .... I have been a fellow briefer along side LL and that is how I know him.

I hope the medical problems are lessening ... but his is not the only family struggling.  Some folks consider it private.

But, be that as it may.  Lando .. you stay.  Nancy would be lost without you.  I will take my marbles and go.  I hope this helps you feel safe enough, loved enough, honored enough not to take your disappointment with anything I said out on the rest of the Briefers.

Be well, Lando... and watch out for the oncoming.

Ciao.

@DCPatriot   (I'm going to miss you most of all, Scarecrow ....)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 08:57:50 pm

The hell it isn't.

And the use of 'TRUMP' by itself, is normally one of disdain.   See: Obama.

Furthermore....this isn't about the use of 'Trump' by itself.   Everybody is 'guilty' of typing that simply out of efficiency.

Typing "Mr. Trump"....twice...never referring to his title is a tell. 



Snowflake
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 08:57:53 pm
Heaven Forbid @Lando Lincoln  that you should leave, I hadn't seen you that much over the past 2 months, I"d see you signed on but not necessarily your posts. Stick around. Believe me, I've gotten the short end of the stick before too, in similar situations.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 08:58:15 pm
Have you noticed that the population of this place has dropped off quite a bit in recent months?   You an DCP should be really proud of yourselves for that.

What a load of crap.

Is this the place you guyz want to do this?   Huh?     @mystery-ak



Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 09:01:34 pm
I didn't write the damn protocols.   I'm simply quoting them.  The critical protocol is:  the first time the man is referred to, he is addressed as "President" Invar.  (Good God forbid)

Well, you can shove the protocols whether you are quoting them or demanding they be adhered to.  He is Trump to me and I will always and forever refer to him as such, unless I find a better suited nickname that Slick and His Heinous achieved for themselves.

Unless I'm meeting the guy face-to-face (and I have no desire to) I will reference him as Trump.

My God man, if you won't go outside and mingle with real, live people ... at least open a window for some fresh air.  You're starting to sound a little disconnected from the world......   I'll keep you in my prayers.

See your problem is like most Beltway political hacks, is that you live in a bubble that engulfs all of Mordor at the Potomac.  Like most of us in flyover country, I do not mingle or associate with the kinds of 'real-live political people' that you do.

I mingle with more salt-of-the earth types both here and abroad.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 09:04:15 pm
 

I know nothing about @Lando Lincoln 's personal life @mystery-ak  .... I have been a fellow briefer along side LL and that is how I know him.

I hope the medical problems are lessening ... but his is not the only family struggling.  Some folks consider it private.

But, be that as it may.  Lando .. you stay.  Nancy would be lost without you.  I will take my marbles and go.  I hope this helps you feel safe enough, loved enough, honored enough not to take your disappointment with anything I said out on the rest of the Briefers.

Be well, Lando... and watch out for the oncoming.

Ciao.

@DCPatriot   (I'm going to miss you most of all, Scarecrow ....)

@Right_in_Virginia

No one is suggesting that you leave either but the endless petty sniping must stop at some point and now seems like it would be a very good time for that to occur.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 09:04:17 pm
What a load of crap.

Is this the place you guyz want to do this?   Huh?     @mystery-ak

Give me a break DC you started this crap today and now you play innocent.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DB on June 12, 2018, 09:04:48 pm
I no longer care to participate. That I have judged by a comment I only intended as 100% respectful (yes, it is true) is enough. That I have been accused, impugned and indicted because of a “tell” says more about others than it does me.

Write what you will. I’m done.

@Lando Lincoln ignore the noise.

Please carry on.

Your posts are valued here.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 09:06:39 pm
I will take my marbles and go.


(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.mQdVzKarJIPSXQWpcwulDgAAAA&pid=15.1&H=160&W=160&P=0)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 09:09:48 pm
   There is never a good place or time for that argument @DCPatriot.
   I attribute the slow down of late to it being Summer and most of us do have a life (happens each non-election year, here).
   
Quote
House, Wife, Kids, the whole catastrophe~ Zorba the Greek.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 12, 2018, 09:09:58 pm
Give me a break DC you started this crap today and now you play innocent.

I never played "innocent".   And, I further explained my reasoning.   And low and behold, somebody who's known us both since before 9-11 saw my post and chimed in.

....as if that doesn't happen in here all day everyday?

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 09:11:08 pm

(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.mQdVzKarJIPSXQWpcwulDgAAAA&pid=15.1&H=160&W=160&P=0)

Just don't fall for it.  I don't/won't.

This ain't my first time at this game....

(https://today.ucf.edu/files/2015/05/Charlie-Brown-kick-528x396.jpg)

I know how it goes.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 09:15:15 pm
     Sure I'm classified as a stoner here @DCPatriot but it doesn't take a Brain Engineer to realize how some of you Mr. Trumpers have been on edge lately.
     What's up with that?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 09:23:38 pm
“We will be stopping the war games, which will save us a tremendous amount of money, unless and until we see that the future negotiation is not going as it should,” Trump told reporters, referring to the annual exercises as “provocative.” “At some point, I have to be honest — I used to say this during my campaign … I want to get our soldiers [in South Korea] out. I want to bring our soldiers back home.”

*****************************

Retired Adm. Harry Harris, the former head of U.S. Pacific Command and the Trump administration’s chosen ambassador to South Korea, explained the logic behind the military exercises in congressional testimony last year. “We are obliged to defend South Korea by treaty. They have a strong and capable military, as we do. But if we’re going to defend or if we’re going to fight with them on the peninsula then we have to be able to integrate with their military,” Harris told the House Armed Services Committee. “We have to maintain our degree of readiness, not only unilateral readiness, but also our combined and joint readiness with our brothers and sisters in the ROK [Republic of Korea] military.”


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-astonishing-concession-kim-jong-un-north-korea-190814681.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-astonishing-concession-kim-jong-un-north-korea-190814681.html)


We hold those 'provacative' exercises because NK seized the USS Pueblo, hacked US soldiers to death in the DMZ, tunneled into SK, shelled disputed islands, sunk the Cheonan, threatens to turn Seoul into a sea of fire, fires missiles, builds nukes, among other things.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 09:25:45 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

No one is suggesting that you leave either but the endless petty sniping must stop at some point and now seems like it would be a very good time for that to occur.

I dont disagree at that it should stop.  I do find it curious that calls for it to stop are always directed at Trump supporters.  And never because of charges of worship or other trump related insults.

No the mods never see those insults or blatant racism directed at a trump supporter.  No those have to be called out specifically and then they might be pulled.

It gets old

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 09:30:32 pm
Oh, crap, I wanted to stay out this ... but.... @mystery-ak   The point is, as I see it, @Lando Lincoln carefully chose to call the POTUS "Mr. Trump".  Had LL simply posted "Trump" he would not have faced the question.  But @Lando Lincoln specifically chose not to call Donald Trump "President" Trump.

Here's why this matters:  Look at LL's posting history ... which is very unique.  He is the only Briefer who is able to drive on the dividing line of a two way highway without even denting his car.  He can do this precisely because every syllable he posts is done with great care and balance --- to prevent knocking himself into oncoming traffic.  LL has a gift .... of sorts.

Point being:  LL chose "Mr" over "President" -- a subtle diss at the POTUS.  But this time he got clipped by oncoming traffic.   ^-^

Really???

Really??

Really?

If anyone wants evidence that our claim that ForeverTrump's® will forever be aggrieved and hostile unless you affix you lips square on Trump's posterior and worship him openly 100% of the time with praise and hosannas - the above post quoted is exhibit A.

Apparently ForeverTrump® has now demonstrated a unique clairvoyant ability to discern your very motive in thought for each syllable you type - and whether or not you have less-than-loyal devotion and respect for their prince based on how you type.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 09:31:20 pm
I dont disagree at that it should stop.  I do find it curious that calls for it to stop are always directed at Trump supporters.  And never because of charges of worship or other trump related insults.

No the mods never see those insults or blatant racism directed at a trump supporter.  No those have to be called out specifically and then they might be pulled.

It gets old

@driftdiver

This today all started with @Lando Lincoln making a very respectful post only to have it picked apart over absolutely nothing.  That is BS and needs to stop.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 09:34:05 pm
This today all started with @Lando Lincoln making a very respectful post only to have it picked apart over absolutely nothing.  That is BS and needs to stop.

^^^THIS!


Even I'm stunned over what transpired.

Lando certainly did not deserve that, but sad to say - it's become par-for-the course when dealing with Trump supporters.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 09:35:32 pm
@driftdiver

This today all started with @Lando Lincoln making a very respectful post only to have it picked apart over absolutely nothing.  That is BS and needs to stop.

One must have a thicker skin to deal with 'these types' that would pick apart a post over nothing.  For myself.... if they don't like what I post....

they can KMA.

Seriously.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 09:37:15 pm

^^^THIS!


Even I'm stunned over what transpired.

Lando certainly did not deserve that, but sad to say - it's become par-for-the course when dealing with Trump supporters.

@INVAR

Not all of them.  But the guilty are very active.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 10:01:12 pm
I dont disagree at that it should stop.  I do find it curious that calls for it to stop are always directed at Trump supporters.  And never because of charges of worship or other trump related insults.

No the mods never see those insults or blatant racism directed at a trump supporter.  No those have to be called out specifically and then they might be pulled.

It gets old

All of these remarks are off topic and I'm just not going to cast stones but I agree with you, the remarks definitely go both ways.

Crimea River,

Lando Lincoln doesn't do it and has always been the utmost gentleman.  It's curious to see some who now are sporting a halo.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 10:01:13 pm
@INVAR

Not all of them.  But the guilty are very active.

@Bigun

I'm active.  So is it me you are back stabbing or someone else.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 10:02:17 pm

^^^THIS!


Even I'm stunned over what transpired.

Lando certainly did not deserve that, but sad to say - it's become par-for-the course when dealing with Trump supporters.

 *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 12, 2018, 10:03:08 pm
 

I know nothing about @Lando Lincoln 's personal life @mystery-ak  .... I have been a fellow briefer along side LL and that is how I know him.

I hope the medical problems are lessening ... but his is not the only family struggling.  Some folks consider it private.

But, be that as it may.  Lando .. you stay.  Nancy would be lost without you.  I will take my marbles and go.  I hope this helps you feel safe enough, loved enough, honored enough not to take your disappointment with anything I said out on the rest of the Briefers.

Be well, Lando... and watch out for the oncoming.

Ciao.

@DCPatriot   (I'm going to miss you most of all, Scarecrow ....)


Good luck to you,  wherever it is you are going.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 10:03:43 pm
I heard some on Hannity, NK has destroyed nuclear sites, maybe one of them was too far gone, they've stopped firing off missiles. To say, this deal is one-sided is false. Back on topic.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 10:06:41 pm
I heard some on Hannity, NK has destroyed nuclear sites, maybe one of them was too far gone, they've stopped firing off missiles. To say, this deal is one-sided is false. Back on topic.


:bigsilly:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 10:08:28 pm
:bigsilly:

Glad you're so unbiased and objective.
:bigsilly:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 10:09:28 pm
I dont disagree at that it should stop.  I do find it curious that calls for it to stop are always directed at Trump supporters.  And never because of charges of worship or other trump related insults.

No the mods never see those insults or blatant racism directed at a trump supporter.  No those have to be called out specifically and then they might be pulled.

It gets old

   With all due respect @driftdiver I've had as many, if not more, timeouts than most here in the last year and most would consider me the poster boy for NTism, sure, most were because my idea of 'soft' p0rn suddenly became Wanker stuff, but the proof is in the pudding.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 10:12:13 pm
 

I know nothing about @Lando Lincoln 's personal life @mystery-ak  .... I have been a fellow briefer along side LL and that is how I know him.

I hope the medical problems are lessening ... but his is not the only family struggling.  Some folks consider it private.

But, be that as it may.  Lando .. you stay.  Nancy would be lost without you.  I will take my marbles and go.  I hope this helps you feel safe enough, loved enough, honored enough not to take your disappointment with anything I said out on the rest of the Briefers.

Be well, Lando... and watch out for the oncoming.

Ciao.

@DCPatriot   (I'm going to miss you most of all, Scarecrow ....)

Sorry it came to this as I hate to see you go...your account will remain open if you choose to return.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 10:12:41 pm
Glad you're so unbiased and objective.
:bigsilly:


So, they inked a deal that did not mandate destruction of a nuclear site, and then even before Kim’s plane could land, they scurried out and started destroying nuclear sites because of that agreement. 

Really?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 10:12:52 pm
   With all due respect @driftdiver I've had as many, if not more, timeouts than most here in the last year and most would consider me the poster boy for NTism, sure, most were because my idea of 'soft' p0rn suddenly became Wanker stuff, but the proof is in the pudding.

 ****slapping
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Victoria33 on June 12, 2018, 10:13:58 pm
Because Trumpalos cannot assuage that bitter taint of insecurity they have unless all around them are worshipping Trump as fervently as they.
@Oceander
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon 

Ocean, let's look at the facts based on past behavior of both of the signers of the "document"  (and I will ignore the coming attacks on me from the usual sources).

Trump: he can't be trusted on anything because he changes his mind by the minute.  Today, he loves Kim, tomorrow he may start again the Kim gross name-calling.  If Kim says one word Trump doesn't like, Trump will verbally shoot him down and start the war games as planned in August, likely start them as soon as he can.  (Without notifying his military, he's called off the war games.)  Trump has alienated our allies across the world; he will do the same with Kim in the near future.  In his business, Trump lied and stole and caused businesses to go bankrupt because he wouldn't pay them.  He cannot be trusted to do what he says he will do and when he shafts someone, he blames it on someone else.  Kim should not believe anything Trump says or anything Trump signs.

Kim:  I saw a documentary of North Korea's past and how they live now - their one goal in life is to destroy America.  They teach it in their schools - they say America buried their people alive in the Korean war - their printed cards for people to buy are about the destruction of America.  They have little food and the reason they give for little food is their money has to go to destroying America.  They celebrate when Kim fires a missile.  Their govn. controls their two TV stations (I think it was two).  The people see govn. made films of their enemy America.  Kim has killed some of his family and extended family.  He has killed any military official who disagrees with him.  He is like Trump - if he hears a word about him he doesn't like, he kills the person just as Trump destroys people's businesses and individual people's lives in other ways and now destroys our relationship with other countries.  What is Kim going to do now with his people living their entire lives waiting for their leader to destroy America?  I would not be surprised to see a military overthrow of Kim if he is actually considering dumping/destroying all the nuclear weapons and all missiles.  What Kim says/does in the next several days will be an indication of how he will proceed, or not, as he can't be believed, either.  He may also suddenly be killed by "his" military.

There is no reason to celebrate anything right now since both men lack integrity.  This thread of fighting back and forth between factions here is a useless waste of time as what has happened so far means nothing.  The first act is over; wait for the second act, third act, of this play.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 10:14:25 pm
So, they inked a deal that did not mandate destruction of a nuclear site, and then even before Kim’s plane could land, they scurried out and started destroying nuclear sites because of that agreement. 

Really?

No just heard a clip on Fox from Trump....all the details are still to be worked out...ongoing process
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 10:14:55 pm
No just heard a clip on Fox from Trump....all the details are still to be worked out...ongoing process

Really? 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 10:15:03 pm
   I too would miss @Right_in_Virginia if she decides to forsake us.
   WE cannot depend on @Frank Cannon to post all the WH press releases.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 10:16:21 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

No one is suggesting that you leave either but the endless petty sniping must stop at some point and now seems like it would be a very good time for that to occur.

Right back at ya @Bigun  I am more than a little sick and tired of the armchair psychobabble that comes my way.  Every other reply to me, even if it's posting an article, calls me  a Trump worshiper, a sore winner or some such crap.  You want peace?  Then this needs to stop. I support the President.  I think he's doing a terrific job.  I am proud of him on the world stage and appreciate his taking the slings and arrows for standing up for this nation.  Everyone knows this.  I am proud of this.  You're not going to change this.

If a poster doesn't have a cogent reply in rebuttal to what I post ... then walk on by. Stop acting like judge, jury and executioner of me...the person.   No one has this right.

You want the endless petty sniping to end ... well, I've got what appears to be news for you.  So do I.  I suggest folks take a good look in the mirror before throwing any more judgments and accusations at me.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 10:16:56 pm
No just heard a clip on Fox from Trump....all the details are still to be worked out...ongoing process

He's been saying this for two weeks.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 10:17:02 pm
Really?

There really are no details yet..they all need to be worked out between both No and So Korea, US and China...everyone is just speculating..
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 10:20:53 pm
   I too would miss @Right_in_Virginia if she decides to forsake us.
   WE cannot depend on @Frank Cannon to post all the WH press releases.

Just say "thank you". 

And not everything has to be sarcastic.  It gets old.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 10:23:50 pm
Right back at ya @Bigun  I am more than a little sick and tired of the armchair psychobabble that comes my way.  Every other reply to me, even if it's posting an article, calls me  a Trump worshiper, a sore winner or some such crap.  You want peace?  Then this needs to stop. I support the President.  I think he's doing a terrific job.  I am proud of him on the world stage and appreciate his taking the slings and arrows for standing up for this nation.  Everyone knows this.  I am proud of this.  You're not going to change this.

If a poster doesn't have a cogent reply in rebuttal to what I post ... then walk on by. Stop acting like judge, jury and executioner of me...the person.   No one has this right.

You want the endless petty sniping to end ... well, I've got what appears to be news for you.  So do I.  I suggest folks take a good look in the mirror before throwing any more judgments and accusations at me.



Ah well. It was too good to last.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: musiclady on June 12, 2018, 10:28:49 pm
I no longer care to participate. That I have judged by a comment I only intended as 100% respectful (yes, it is true) is enough. That I have been accused, impugned and indicted because of a “tell” says more about others than it does me.

Write what you will. I’m done.

@Lando Lincoln - you are one of the most even handed, logical, fair minded people on this forum (and on every forum you've ever been on).

What you said was respectful, kind and fair, and the fact that anyone criticized it reflects poorly only on them and not on you.

I know you haven't posted much lately, but every post you've written is a gem.

Please stick around!!!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 10:30:28 pm
I heard some on Hannity, NK has destroyed nuclear sites, maybe one of them was too far gone, they've stopped firing off missiles. To say, this deal is one-sided is false. Back on topic.


They had stopped testing missiles some time ago, perhaps due to the fact they had achieved the desired range through altitude testing.  The nuclear test site was widely reported to be wrecked from the combination of their successful large scale test and previous other smaller ones.  For them to stop these activities now is like a person with meth mouth swearing off oral hygiene.  It doesn't really mean much.  When we have NK warheads studied, disassembled, and stored at the Oak Ridge facility, I'll be convinced they're serious.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 12, 2018, 10:33:15 pm
   With all due respect @driftdiver I've had as many, if not more, timeouts than most here in the last year and most would consider me the poster boy for NTism, sure, most were because my idea of 'soft' p0rn suddenly became Wanker stuff, but the proof is in the pudding.

@corbe

In all seriousness you rarely insult me for Trump stuff and personally I appreciate your softcore porn @mystery-ak might not but she's a stick in the mud sometimes.

No I'm referring to pepe like @INVAR and @Oceander where nearly every single post has an insult or something intended to be demeaning.  It gets old.  It's to the point where it really outweighs the enjoyment.  You can't discuss anything without getting insulted by those folks and everything is about Trump to them.

Now I'll be accused of whining so screw u all.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: GtHawk on June 12, 2018, 10:35:45 pm
Oh, crap, I wanted to stay out this ... but.... @mystery-ak   The point is, as I see it, @Lando Lincoln carefully chose to call the POTUS "Mr. Trump".  Had LL simply posted "Trump" he would not have faced the question.  But @Lando Lincoln specifically chose not to call Donald Trump "President" Trump.

Here's why this matters:  Look at LL's posting history ... which is very unique.  He is the only Briefer who is able to drive on the dividing line of a two way highway without even denting his car.  He can do this precisely because every syllable he posts is done with great care and balance --- to prevent knocking himself into oncoming traffic.  LL has a gift .... of sorts.

Point being:  LL chose "Mr" over "President" -- a subtle diss at the POTUS.  But this time he got clipped by oncoming traffic.   ^-^


@DCPatriot
Inject hysterical laughter
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 10:36:37 pm
Right back at ya @Bigun  I am more than a little sick and tired of the armchair psychobabble that comes my way.  Every other reply to me, even if it's posting an article, calls me  a Trump worshiper, a sore winner or some such crap.  You want peace?  Then this needs to stop. I support the President.  I think he's doing a terrific job.  I am proud of him on the world stage and appreciate his taking the slings and arrows for standing up for this nation.  Everyone knows this.  I am proud of this.  You're not going to change this.

If a poster doesn't have a cogent reply in rebuttal to what I post ... then walk on by. Stop acting like judge, jury and executioner of me...the person.   No one has this right.

You want the endless petty sniping to end ... well, I've got what appears to be news for you.  So do I.  I suggest folks take a good look in the mirror before throwing any more judgments and accusations at me.

   With all due respect @Right_in_Virginia, and I say that sincerely, though you probably have me on Ignore,  the problem, IMHO, is you Trumpers need to grow a Thicker Skin, $hit, I've even been called a hellary lover here, that pales to the same kinda crap yall have been called.
   It's an Internet Political Forum, unlike TOS and Trumpbart, Briefers are encouraged to discuss different opinions (respectfully!).   It's a Feature not a Bug. 
   Echo chambers are plentiful and elsewhere.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: GtHawk on June 12, 2018, 10:44:08 pm
He was 'Family'.

....and so were you.    ^-^
Did you rend your garments while tying that ?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 10:44:15 pm
@corbe

In all seriousness you rarely insult me for Trump stuff and personally I appreciate your softcore porn @mystery-ak might not but she's a stick in the mud sometimes.

No I'm referring to pepe like @INVAR and @Oceander where nearly every single post has an insult or something intended to be demeaning.  It gets old.  It's to the point where it really outweighs the enjoyment.  You can't discuss anything without getting insulted by those folks and everything is about Trump to them.

Now I'll be accused of whining so screw u all.

Its true there are a few individuals here still mad about the past election (or whatever) who get their jollies poking those they see as pleased with the way things are developing. Or at least not as bitter as they. Its weird.

But as Dionne Warwick once said, just walk on by.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 10:44:28 pm
   With all due respect @Right_in_Virginia, and I say that sincerely, though you probably have me on Ignore,  the problem, IMHO, is you Trumpers need to grow a Thicker Skin, $hit, I've even been called a hellary lover here, that pales to the same kinda crap yall have been called.
   It's an Internet Political Forum, unlike TOS and Trumpbart, Briefers are encouraged to discuss different opinions (respectfully!).   It's a Feature not a Bug. 
   Echo chambers are plentiful and elsewhere.

Okay, opinion noted. Now, let's get back on topic.

What if someone who wasn't one of us "Briefers" were looking in?  They'd be seeing this infighting. There is enough in the news without all of this and I think it pretty much goes both ways, accusing others of having too thin of a skin could mean, usually, those for the President don't take offense per say, driftdriver and me, we just walk on. This was about someone who took offense to apparently what RIV said. I think RIV has almost a "possessiveness" about her, but trolling, insulting, I don't think she does much if ever.  There I said my 2 cents, we all have it. Back to the topic.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 10:45:35 pm
Echo chambers are plentiful and elsewhere.


elsewhere   elsewhere   elsewhere
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 10:47:04 pm
Quote
Bush Center highlights North Korean human rights abuses after summit
Jacqueline Thomsen

The George W. Bush Presidential Center is tweeting out coverage and analysis of human rights abuses in North Korea in the wake of President’s historic summit with the country’s leader on Tuesday.

The center has shared older posts on the human rights violations as well as pieces arguing for human rights to be included in future talks with North Korea.

Asked about the posts, a spokesperson for the Bush Center told The Hill that it was “simply sharing content that we work on every day within our Human Freedom Initiative.”

Read more at: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391773-trump-i-told-kim-he-could-have-the-best-hotels-in-the-world (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391773-trump-i-told-kim-he-could-have-the-best-hotels-in-the-world)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 10:52:21 pm

elsewhere   elsewhere   elsewhere

Lol!  You're a funny guy.   :laugh:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 10:53:49 pm
@Bigun

I'm active.  So is it me you are back stabbing or someone else.

@driftdiver

Not you.  I think our conversations have been respectful. Do you think differently?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Victoria33 on June 12, 2018, 10:54:44 pm
Just taking a moment to try to catch up. Have we offered to stop training with South Korea and give Lil'Kim glorious Trump Golf resorts yet?
@AbaraXas

Yes.  Trump had a film made, gave it to Kim; the film showing what North Korea could be like if they love Trump.  In the film there was a beautiful beach (it is a Florida beach).  So, yes, if Kim bows to Trump, Trump will make North Korea another Trump golden masterpiece (of course, Trump gets a kickback of money when people use anything with the Trump name on it).
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 10:56:05 pm
Allow me say it’d be dull around here without RIV, edpc, DC, jpsb, abcdefg and all the rest. But, chill folks! Singapore was just a meeting and the earth is still on its axis. No one’s going anywhere.

We all come back sooner or later anyway.   :laugh:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 10:58:05 pm
Allow me say it’d be dull around here without RIV, edpc, DC, jpsb, abcdefg and all the rest. But, chill folks! Singapore was just a meeting and the earth is still on its axis. No one’s going anywhere.

We all come back sooner or later anyway.   :laugh:

When you see me walkin down the street
and I start to cry
each time we meet
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 10:58:23 pm
Okay, opinion noted. Now, let's get back on topic.

What if someone who wasn't one of us "Briefers" were looking in?  They'd be seeing this infighting. There is enough in the news without all of this and I think it pretty much goes both ways, accusing others of having too thin of a skin could mean, usually, those for the President don't take offense per say, driftdriver and me, we just walk on. This was about someone who took offense to apparently what RIV said. I think RIV has almost a "possessiveness" about her, but trolling, insulting, I don't think she does much if ever.  There I said my 2 cents, we all have it. Back to the topic.

Well we are an open forum where people are allowed to express their feelings...and that includes all the infighting.. :smokin:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 10:58:50 pm
Lol!  You're a funny guy.   :laugh:


Sometimes.  Mostly, I just natter - or so I've heard.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 11:00:01 pm
Well we are an open forum where people are allowed to express their feelings...and that includes all the infighting.. :smokin:

Maybe we need a dedicated thread on target identification.  As in the democrats!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 11:00:26 pm
Okay, opinion noted. Now, let's get back on topic.

What if someone who wasn't one of us "Briefers" were looking in?  They'd be seeing this infighting. There is enough in the news without all of this and I think it pretty much goes both ways, accusing others of having too thin of a skin could mean, usually, those for the President don't take offense per say, driftdriver and me, we just walk on. This was about someone who took offense to apparently what RIV said. I think RIV has almost a "possessiveness" about her, but trolling, insulting, I don't think she does much if ever.  There I said my 2 cents, we all have it. Back to the topic.

   @TomSea
   Very good snapshot of what you perceive the dangers to the further growing of TBR is, in members (we had 4.6 million hits last month), but this is where I have always drawn the Line, there are many more future briefers (Guests now) that desire both sides to a debate, if it is done respectfully, and I don't think our 'usual' dustups bother them much.
   Myst has put together a pretty good group of people.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 11:03:39 pm
Allow me say it’d be dull around here without RIV, edpc, DC, jpsb, abcdefg and all the rest.


That made a perfectly good sip of IPA exit my nose.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 11:07:44 pm
Kim Jong Un accepts Trump's invitation to Washington: report
http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington (http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 11:13:00 pm
   With all due respect @Right_in_Virginia, and I say that sincerely, though you probably have me on Ignore,  the problem, IMHO, is you Trumpers need to grow a Thicker Skin, $hit, I've even been called a hellary lover here, that pales to the same kinda crap yall have been called.
   It's an Internet Political Forum, unlike TOS and Trumpbart, Briefers are encouraged to discuss different opinions (respectfully!).   It's a Feature not a Bug.   

Here's the difference I've experienced @corbe  I participate in several forums. What I've not witnessed since the dreadful election season ended is a personal animas that transfers from thread to thread for months on end. 

I have engaged in sharp-witted, fact-based political debate on numerous occasions. It's invigorating, and challenging.  At worst, there's an agreement to disagree...usually with a hat tip for a debate well played.   Not once has it devolved into psychobabble about the other poster.

All I ask is if one disagrees with my point, do so with a cogent, reasoned rebuttal. If there isn't one .. I would hope a poster would walk on by rather than attack me, the opinion holder.  Really, just walk on by.  I'm at the point where I'm poised to respond in kind and I would prefer not to.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 11:13:38 pm
Kim Jong Un accepts Trump's invitation to Washington: report
http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington (http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington)

Better he comes to Washington, than the President goes to North Korea.   :smokin:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: 240B on June 12, 2018, 11:14:43 pm
Kim Jong Un accepts Trump's invitation to Washington: report
http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington (http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington)

Nothing short of Astounding. Never thought I would live long enough to see this happening now. It's like watching the moon landing in the 60s.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 11:16:14 pm
@corbe

In all seriousness you rarely insult me for Trump stuff and personally I appreciate your softcore porn @mystery-ak might not but she's a stick in the mud sometimes.

No I'm referring to pepe like @INVAR and @Oceander where nearly every single post has an insult or something intended to be demeaning.  It gets old.  It's to the point where it really outweighs the enjoyment.  You can't discuss anything without getting insulted by those folks and everything is about Trump to them.

Now I'll be accused of whining so screw u all.

Projection, heal thyself.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 11:16:15 pm
@AbaraXas

Yes.  Trump had a film made, gave it to Kim; the film showing what North Korea could be like if they love Trump.  In the film there was a beautiful beach (it is a Florida beach).  So, yes, if Kim bows to Trump, Trump will make North Korea another Trump golden masterpiece (of course, Trump gets a kickback of money when people use anything with the Trump name on it).

This was a brilliant demonstration of how to market freedom.  Very cool.  Only a businessman would know how to pull this off.   ^-^
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 11:17:29 pm
Nothing short of Astounding. Never thought I would live long enough to see this happening now. It's like watching the moon landing in the 60s.

Exactly!   888high58888
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 11:17:51 pm
    White House, that's good.   

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Bashar_al-Assad.jpg/1200px-Bashar_al-Assad.jpg)

The last time Trump hosted an Asian at Maralago all I got was 59 tomahawks.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 12, 2018, 11:18:53 pm

Sometimes.  Mostly, I just natter - or so I've heard.

You're a niggler too?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 11:19:34 pm
This was a brilliant demonstration of how to market freedom.  Very cool.  Only a businessman would know how to pull this off.   ^-^

Its easy to imagine Trump selling a resort development project in exactly the same manner.

Trying a different approach to matters of state is why he was elected - we shall see how it works.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 11:22:05 pm
Trump Says North Korea Will Destroy Missile Site. But Which One?
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/12/619247404/trump-says-north-korea-will-destroy-missile-site-but-which-one (https://www.npr.org/2018/06/12/619247404/trump-says-north-korea-will-destroy-missile-site-but-which-one)

Even Rodman didn't expect much to happen, something happening is better than nothing happening (as a generalization).
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 11:23:52 pm
Only a businessman would know how to pull this off.


I think that's the line he used on Stormy.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 12, 2018, 11:24:42 pm
Here's the difference I've experienced @corbe  I participate in several forums. What I've not witnessed since the dreadful election season ended is a personal animas that transfers from thread to thread for months on end. 

I have engaged in sharp-witted, fact-based political debate on numerous occasions. It's invigorating, and challenging.  At worst, there's an agreement to disagree...usually with a hat tip for a debate well played.   Not once has it devolved into psychobabble about the other poster.

All I ask is if one disagrees with my point, do so with a cogent, reasoned rebuttal. If there isn't one .. I would hope a poster would walk on by rather than attack me, the opinion holder.  Really, just walk on by.  I'm at the point where I'm poised to respond in kind and I would prefer not to.


@Right_in_Virginia

I will admit that some of my responses to you in the past might have been colored by my personal animus regarding the "safe spaces" debacle that is now ancient history.  I'll do my best to put that behind me now and will endeavor to respond to yo0ou as you request henceforth. I hope you will do likewise and dispense with the pettiness that many see in some of what you post. 

 :beer:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 11:26:07 pm
If a poster doesn't have a cogent reply in rebuttal to what I post ... then walk on by. Stop acting like judge, jury and executioner of me...the person.   No one has this right.

You want the endless petty sniping to end ... well, I've got what appears to be news for you.  So do I.  I suggest folks take a good look in the mirror before throwing any more judgments and accusations at me.

You should look in a mirror first there lady.  I don't know how many times you've done a hit and run snipe attack and make all kinds of suggestions from 'opening a window', "listen to all the voices in your head'; to 'get a life';  simply because you did not like a comment that was not even addressing you, but was critical of Trump.  So you got no authority whatsoever to lecture anyone here about that kind of conduct.  You are simply doing that which you accuse.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: 240B on June 12, 2018, 11:27:19 pm
Its easy to imagine Trump selling a resort development project in exactly the same manner.

Trying a different approach to matters of state is why he was elected - we shall see how it works.

Kim (and his crew) doesn't know it yet but they are all going to have to sit through a 3 hour time share presentation.
You can't afford NOT TO BUY THIS!!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 11:29:03 pm
You should look in a mirror first there lady.  I don't know how many times you've done a hit and run snipe attack and make all kinds of suggestions from 'opening a window', "listen to all the voices in your head'; to 'get a life';  simply because you did not like a comment that was not even addressing you, but was critical of Trump.  So you got no authority whatsoever to lecture anyone here about that kind of conduct.  You are simply doing that which you accuse.

Yet another one that loves to snipe-attack and then feign innocense and play the victim routine.  Talk about stuff that "gets old"!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 12, 2018, 11:30:49 pm

@Right_in_Virginia

I will admit that some of my responses to you in the past might have been colored by my personal animus regarding the "safe spaces" debacle that is now ancient history.  I'll do my best to put that behind me now and will endeavor to respond to yo0ou as you request henceforth. I hope you will do likewise and dispense with the pettiness that many see in some of what you post. 

 :beer:

 :beer:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 11:32:07 pm
I don't know how many times you've done a hit and run snipe attack and make all kinds of suggestions from 'opening a window', "listen to all the voices in your head'; to 'get a life'


Hey, at least you get some variety. All I ever get is some tired refrain about raisins and globe oggling.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 11:32:25 pm
This was a brilliant demonstration of how to market freedom.  Very cool.  Only a businessman would know how to pull this off.   ^-^

It was cheesy.  The sort of stunt that a third-rate timeshare salesman would pull.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 12, 2018, 11:32:33 pm
What if someone who wasn't one of us "Briefers" were looking in?  They'd be seeing this infighting.

Just about every single forum out there, the vitriol, fighting and trolling since Trump was elected is at heights I have never seen in the 20-plus years I've been on them.  This includes entertainment and hobby forums as well as current events and prep forums.   The sniping on this one doesn't even register in comparison to the kinds of crap you will read elsewhere.  Everything from Doxxing to direct threats and constant harassment  over things as simple as disagreeing over whether or not you liked a movie or don't like certain kinds of model kits.

This board is milquetoast in comparison to even the mildest political forum that allows open discussion.

Yet another one that loves to snipe-attack and then feign innocense and play the victim routine.  Talk about stuff that "gets old"!

I'm never innocent, and I'm never a victim.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 11:40:25 pm
It was cheesy.  The sort of stunt that a third-rate timeshare salesman would pull.

Yeah, and that pesky ISIS beheading people, no big deal beating them.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 12, 2018, 11:41:25 pm
Yet another one that loves to snipe-attack and then feign innocense and play the victim routine.  Talk about stuff that "gets old"!

 :patriot:

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 12, 2018, 11:41:33 pm
Here's the difference I've experienced @corbe  I participate in several forums. What I've not witnessed since the dreadful election season ended is a personal animas that transfers from thread to thread for months on end. 

I have engaged in sharp-witted, fact-based political debate on numerous occasions. It's invigorating, and challenging.  At worst, there's an agreement to disagree...usually with a hat tip for a debate well played.   Not once has it devolved into psychobabble about the other poster.

All I ask is if one disagrees with my point, do so with a cogent, reasoned rebuttal. If there isn't one .. I would hope a poster would walk on by rather than attack me, the opinion holder.  Really, just walk on by.  I'm at the point where I'm poised to respond in kind and I would prefer not to.


   @Right_in_Virginia
   My point all along was that personal attacks are not tolerated here and if you REPORT it, it will be taken care of.
   I happen on this insight because I've been on the short end of that stick before, YES, even with you, and for good reason.

   Many of my Friends here are Trumpers, I respect all of them for tolerating my snark and offering their insightful dialogue in a respectful manner including you and my last piece of advice to you is "if you can't take the heat go back where it's cool and comfortable".
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Victoria33 on June 12, 2018, 11:42:21 pm
Every other reply to me, even if it's posting an article, calls me  a Trump worshiper, a sore winner or some such crap. 
If a poster doesn't have a cogent reply in rebuttal to what I post ... then walk on by. Stop acting like judge, jury and executioner of me...the person.   No one has this right.  You want the endless petty sniping to end ... well, I've got what appears to be news for you.  So do I.  I suggest folks take a good look in the mirror before throwing any more judgments and accusations at me.
@Right_in_Virginia
@CatherineofAragon 

I never post or respond to you but you respond with trash talk/personal attack or stunts like  *****rollingeyes***** to my posts.  Since you will never leave (but one can hope), don't respond to any of my posts.  You are the biggest instigator of personal attacks on this forum.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 11:46:07 pm
It was cheesy.  The sort of stunt that a third-rate timeshare salesman would pull.

Yeah it was a little cheesy but it may open Kim's eyes

He's a young man and I think he likes the finer things in life...maybe, just maybe this will work..not getting my hopes up though.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 11:49:12 pm
:patriot:

Um..... I suspect that you misunderstood who I was referring to there....lolol.

(hint, it wasn't INVAR)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 12, 2018, 11:50:50 pm
Just about every single forum out there, the vitriol, fighting and trolling since Trump was elected is at heights I have never seen in the 20-plus years I've been on them.  This includes entertainment and hobby forums as well as current events and prep forums.   The sniping on this one doesn't even register in comparison to the kinds of crap you will read elsewhere.  Everything from Doxxing to direct threats and constant harassment  over things as simple as disagreeing over whether or not you liked a movie or don't like certain kinds of model kits.

This board is milquetoast in comparison to even the mildest political forum that allows open discussion.

I'm never innocent, and I'm never a victim.

You too???   I wasn't talking about you, dear.  I was referring to who you were responding to.  This place does get confusing, doesn't it.   :cool:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 12, 2018, 11:51:20 pm
Kim Jong Un accepts Trump's invitation to Washington: report
http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington (http://thehill.com/policy/international/391951-kim-jong-un-confirms-he-accepts-trumps-invitation-to-washington)


Future news.....

President Trump and Kim Jong Un were on the verge of a major breakthrough until an unfortunate misunderstanding occurred after the translator improperly relayed the US leader's invitation to 'go out tonight and see Manassas.'
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 11:52:21 pm
Yeah, and that pesky ISIS beheading people, no big deal beating them.

Huh?   That makes no sense whatsoever. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 12, 2018, 11:52:49 pm
@Right_in_Virginia
@CatherineofAragon 

I never post or respond to you but you respond with trash talk/personal attack or stunts like  *****rollingeyes***** to my posts.  Since you will never leave (but one can hope), don't respond to any of my posts.  You are the biggest instigator of personal attacks on this forum.

“Instigator” of personal attacks...hmm? Are you by any chance trying to say RIV expresses her positive opinions about and for Trump? Cause that’s all it takes to instigate personal attacks from a few people here eaten up with Trump animosity – present company excluded, of course.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 12, 2018, 11:53:25 pm
Yeah it was a little cheesy but it may open Kim's eyes

He's a young man and I think he likes the finer things in life...maybe, just maybe this will work..not getting my hopes up though.

Really?  He’s not a rube.  I doubt if it did anything other than make him laugh inside. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 12, 2018, 11:55:01 pm
Really?  He’s not a rube.  I doubt if it did anything other than make him laugh inside.

Not a rube? He carries his crap around with him for pity's sake.

He's the definition of rube.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 12, 2018, 11:57:39 pm
Really?  He’s not a rube.  I doubt if it did anything other than make him laugh inside.

Hmmm...you maybe right..I just don't understand their thinking I guess...I shouldn't compare him to other 26yo's.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 12:01:27 am
Its easy to imagine Trump selling a resort development project in exactly the same manner.

Trying a different approach to matters of state is why he was elected - we shall see how it works.

The President also showed off his car ... and Kim was right there appreciating it.  (The secret service wasn't....)

@skeeter
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 12:02:19 am
Not a rube? He carries his crap around with him for pity's sake.

He's the definition of rube.

 88devil
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 13, 2018, 12:04:57 am
The President also showed off his car ... and Kim was right there appreciating it.  (The secret service wasn't....)

@skeeter

Though I'm not sure the Chairman appreciated Trump's joke about taking a picture that made them both 'thin and perfect'. Hilarious.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 12:06:38 am
You too???   I wasn't talking about you, dear.  I was referring to who you were responding to.  This place does get confusing, doesn't it.   :cool:

Oh I got it.  I just wanted to state for the record that I am never innocent, but I never allow myself to be a victim.

I makes for all the charges that I am 'holier than thou' much more humorous to me.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 13, 2018, 12:06:43 am
The President also showed off his car ... and Kim was right there appreciating it.  (The secret service wasn't....)

@skeeter

Being POTUS is his newfound hobby.   And, he's proving to be damned good at it.

We need to keep reminding ourselves that the man is worth around Ten Billion Dollars.

When you have that much $$$ in your piggy bank, it's gotta be even more fun!   :laugh:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 13, 2018, 12:06:55 am
   I too, @INVAR am in other places all over the Net, that would be considered brutal by our standards, some I can even use Drumpf, but not in my Home, I respect my Landlord and my Roommates.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 13, 2018, 12:07:19 am
Really?  He’s not a rube.

LOL. Yeah right. Their state vehicles are 70's era Continentals for Christs sake.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZvRRzQV2Hnw/hqdefault.jpg)

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 12:08:36 am
Yeah it was a little cheesy but it may open Kim's eyes

He's a young man and I think he likes the finer things in life...maybe, just maybe this will work..not getting my hopes up though.

He went sightseeing....you know he wants all of this, too.   ^-^

(https://m.wsj.net/video/20180611/061118kimstroll4/061118kimstroll4_640x360.jpg)  (https://newpaper24.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/north-korea-s-leader-kim-jong-un-visits-the-marina-bay-sands-hotel-in-singapore-1.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 12:09:57 am
Though I'm not sure the Chairman appreciated Trump's joke about taking a picture that made them both 'thin and perfect'. Hilarious.

Perhaps a bridge too far .....  :laugh:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: skeeter on June 13, 2018, 12:15:55 am
Perhaps a bridge too far .....  :laugh:

That crack might have earned Trump a mortar round back home.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 12:35:17 am
@Oceander
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon 

Ocean, let's look at the facts based on past behavior of both of the signers of the "document"  (and I will ignore the coming attacks on me from the usual sources).

Trump: he can't be trusted on anything because he changes his mind by the minute.  Today, he loves Kim, tomorrow he may start again the Kim gross name-calling.  If Kim says one word Trump doesn't like, Trump will verbally shoot him down and start the war games as planned in August, likely start them as soon as he can.  (Without notifying his military, he's called off the war games.)  Trump has alienated our allies across the world; he will do the same with Kim in the near future.  In his business, Trump lied and stole and caused businesses to go bankrupt because he wouldn't pay them.  He cannot be trusted to do what he says he will do and when he shafts someone, he blames it on someone else.  Kim should not believe anything Trump says or anything Trump signs.

Kim:  I saw a documentary of North Korea's past and how they live now - their one goal in life is to destroy America.  They teach it in their schools - they say America buried their people alive in the Korean war - their printed cards for people to buy are about the destruction of America.  They have little food and the reason they give for little food is their money has to go to destroying America.  They celebrate when Kim fires a missile.  Their govn. controls their two TV stations (I think it was two).  The people see govn. made films of their enemy America.  Kim has killed some of his family and extended family.  He has killed any military official who disagrees with him.  He is like Trump - if he hears a word about him he doesn't like, he kills the person just as Trump destroys people's businesses and individual people's lives in other ways and now destroys our relationship with other countries.  What is Kim going to do now with his people living their entire lives waiting for their leader to destroy America?  I would not be surprised to see a military overthrow of Kim if he is actually considering dumping/destroying all the nuclear weapons and all missiles.  What Kim says/does in the next several days will be an indication of how he will proceed, or not, as he can't be believed, either.  He may also suddenly be killed by "his" military.

There is no reason to celebrate anything right now since both men lack integrity.  This thread of fighting back and forth between factions here is a useless waste of time as what has happened so far means nothing.  The first act is over; wait for the second act, third act, of this play.

@Victoria33

Totally honest here---when I got up this morning I checked Twitter and saw the pics, and I was impressed.  I showed my husband and I said that if Trump pulls this off, he should get the Nobel Prize.  Then I started getting the details....no real concessions from Kim, Trump saying we would end war games and pull out of South Korea without notifying SK of his intentions, etc. 

The worst part for me was the tongue bath he gave that mass-murdering bastard.  "He runs his country tough"---really??  Yeah, I'd have to say concentration camps for your whole family if you don't keep the mandatory photo of Kim on your wall dusted very tough.  Didn't Ronald Reagan always make it clear that he was on the side of the prisoners/dissidents instead of the tyrants?  And why was our flag side by side with theirs?

Maybe something will come of it, but according to the Heritage Foundation, NK has made the same promise eight times since 1992.  So excuse me if I don't celebrate yet. 

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 12:44:12 am
    Adulation to the current occupant of the Oval Office takes president over everything we held so dearly just a few short years ago......SAD

@corbe

It's lunacy.  And it's led to the offense of one of the very few on this forum who has never given cause.

@Lando Lincoln, please stay.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 12:48:15 am
I didn't write the damn protocols.   I'm simply quoting them.  The critical protocol is:  the first time the man is referred to, he is addressed as "President" Invar.  (Good God forbid)

My God man, if you won't go outside and mingle with real, live people ... at least open a window for some fresh air.  You're starting to sound a little disconnected from the world......   I'll keep you in my prayers.

http://www.formsofaddress.info/FOA_president_US.html (http://www.formsofaddress.info/FOA_president_US.html)

   
How Should Reporters Refer to
The Current President in Media?
    How should President Trump be referred to by the media? I hear them refer to him as Mr. Trump and this just doesn't sound very respectful of him or the office (in my opinion). Mahalo for your time.
         -- Ms. Brazile in Honolulu

Dear MBIH:
    In the media the journalists are referring to The President in the third person in a story ... so they will refer to him in various ways so who they are talking about is clear to the listener.
    You'll hear:
        Donald Trump
        President Trump
        Trump
        Mr. Trump
    These are not forms of address ... for which there are rules.  In direct address a president is addressed as
        Mr. President
    His given name or surname is not used in his presence. 
    Listen to a White House news conference, and all the reporters address him as Mr. President.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 12:48:21 am
   I too, @INVAR am in other places all over the Net, that would be considered brutal by our standards, some I can even use Drumpf, but not in my Home, I respect my Landlord and my Roommates.

You've got a man-crush on Tom Cotton that you have bored us with ad infinitum @corbe  , it's the same sort of deal.

I don't blame you though, he is one of our best Senators.

(http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/03/ap_tom-cotton_ap-photo.jpg)

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 12:49:26 am
@Victoria33

Totally honest here---when I got up this morning I checked Twitter and saw the pics, and I was impressed.  I showed my husband and I said that if Trump pulls this off, he should get the Nobel Prize.  Then I started getting the details....no real concessions from Kim, Trump saying we would end war games and pull out of South Korea without notifying SK of his intentions, etc. 

The worst part for me was the tongue bath he gave that mass-murdering bastard.  "He runs his country tough"---really??  Yeah, I'd have to say concentration camps for your whole family if you don't keep the mandatory photo of Kim on your wall dusted very tough.  Didn't Ronald Reagan always make it clear that he was on the side of the prisoners/dissidents instead of the tyrants?  And why was our flag side by side with theirs?

Maybe something will come of it, but according to the Heritage Foundation, NK has made the same promise eight times since 1992.  So excuse me if I don't celebrate yet.

But NK has always gotten something first .... (money) so there was no need to go forward. 

This time, NK is still under sanctions with the possibility of more to be imposed if this falls through.  Now that Kim spent two days tasting the poison fruit of Capitalism in Singapore, he's not going to be happy going back to driving his 1970 Oldsmobile and living in a third world hellhole.   He's also tasted celebrity and status ... and I'm sure he liked that, too. 

Plus, there's a different team in place now.  A rather fearless team. ... even China's pitched in.  All around there are different circumstances, giving more reasons to hope.

Right now I just hope Kim's not killed off.  At least not yet.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 13, 2018, 12:54:42 am
@Victoria33

Totally honest here---when I got up this morning I checked Twitter and saw the pics, and I was impressed.  I showed my husband and I said that if Trump pulls this off, he should get the Nobel Prize.  Then I started getting the details....no real concessions from Kim, Trump saying we would end war games and pull out of South Korea without notifying SK of his intentions, etc. 

The worst part for me was the tongue bath he gave that mass-murdering bastard.  "He runs his country tough"---really??  Yeah, I'd have to say concentration camps for your whole family if you don't keep the mandatory photo of Kim on your wall dusted very tough.  Didn't Ronald Reagan always make it clear that he was on the side of the prisoners/dissidents instead of the tyrants?  And why was our flag side by side with theirs?

Maybe something will come of it, but according to the Heritage Foundation, NK has made the same promise eight times since 1992.  So excuse me if I don't celebrate yet.

Exactly right.  Those celebrating are premature IMO.  Maybe something will come of this but the details include no real concessions from Kim (even in exchange for concessions from Trump).  Kim has 120K people in prison camps.  To say that he loves his people is absurd IMO.  To get insight into life inside North Korea prison camps, I found this book a great read:

https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916 (https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916)

This guy was born in a prison camp and didn't even know meat existed until he escaped. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 01:01:34 am
But NK has always gotten something first .... (money) so there was no need to go forward. 

This time, NK is still under sanctions with the possibility of more to be imposed if this falls through.  Now that Kim spent two days tasting the poison fruit of Capitalism in Singapore, he's not going to be happy going back to driving his 1970 Oldsmobile and living in a third world hellhole.   He's also tasted celebrity and status ... and I'm sure he liked that, too. 

Plus, there's a different team in place now.  A rather fearless team. ... even China's pitched in.  All around there are different circumstances, giving more reasons to hope.

Right now I just hope Kim's not killed off.  At least not yet.

@Right_in_Virginia

I hope it all happens that way, I really do.

But does Kim really drive old cars, etc.?  I figured he was pretty much the only person in North Korea who lives in luxury.  He's not short on groceries, clearly.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:02:50 am
Radio Free Asia:

Quote
US Gets Little in Return For Pledge to Suspend Military Exercises After Trump-Kim Summit: Experts
2018-06-12

Washington has pledged to suspend military exercises on the Korean Peninsula following a historic summit between U.S. President Donald Trump and North Korea’s leader Kim Jong Un, prompting experts to question why the move was made without substantive concessions on denuclearization from Pyongyang.

At the conclusion of the summit, held on Tuesday in Singapore, the two leaders issued a joint statement pledging to establish new relations, build a peace regime on the Korean Peninsula, and committing to the recovery and repatriation of the remains of American prisoners of war and soldiers missing in action in North Korea.

The statement said that Trump had “committed to provide security guarantees” to the North and that Kim had reaffirmed his “firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” echoing a pledge he had made in the Panmunjom Declaration, issued following a similarly unprecedented meeting with his South Korean counterpart Moon Jae-in in April.

Read more at: https://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/concessions-06122018171350.html (https://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/concessions-06122018171350.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 01:03:03 am
Exactly right.  Those celebrating are premature IMO.  Maybe something will come of this but the details include no real concessions from Kim (even in exchange for concessions from Trump).  Kim has 120K people in prison camps.  To say that he loves his people is absurd IMO.  To get insight into life inside North Korea prison camps, I found this book a great read:

https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916 (https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916)

This guy was born in a prison camp and didn't even know meat existed until he escaped.

@Concerned

Oh, my Lord.  That's...well, I don't know what to say.

I'm adding that title to my Kindle list.  Thank you.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 01:03:53 am
LOL. Yeah right. Their state vehicles are 70's era Continentals for Christs sake.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZvRRzQV2Hnw/hqdefault.jpg)

@Frank Cannon

What the....!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:04:16 am
Quote
World Leaders Praise Trump–Kim Summit, Offer Support on Road Ahead
By Petr Svab

Notes of praise and support poured in from world leaders after the successful meeting between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore on June 12.

Representatives of the European Union, Japan, China, and Russia were among those commending the historic summit—the first between the leaders of the United States and North Korea—where the communist dictatorship reaffirmed a commitment to give up nuclear weapons.

“The ultimate goal, shared by the entire international community and as expressed by the United Nations Security Council, remains the complete, verifiable, and irreversible denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula,” the European Union stated in a press release.


Read more at: https://www.theepochtimes.com/world-leaders-praise-trump-kim-summit-offer-support-on-road-ahead_2559733.html (https://www.theepochtimes.com/world-leaders-praise-trump-kim-summit-offer-support-on-road-ahead_2559733.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:05:32 am
Exactly right.  Those celebrating are premature IMO.  Maybe something will come of this but the details include no real concessions from Kim (even in exchange for concessions from Trump).  Kim has 120K people in prison camps.  To say that he loves his people is absurd IMO.  To get insight into life inside North Korea prison camps, I found this book a great read:

https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916 (https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916)

This guy was born in a prison camp and didn't even know meat existed until he escaped.

You have a rogue nation threatening about a half-dozen nations with nuclear weapons. Human rights are of utmost importance but somehow, the channels to let things flow must happen at first too and no Libyan model.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 13, 2018, 01:06:22 am
@Concerned

Oh, my Lord.  That's...well, I don't know what to say.

I'm adding that title to my Kindle list.  Thank you.

@CatherineofAragon

 :beer:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:08:44 am
Quote
Kim, Trump agree reciprocal, step-by-step actions towards denuclearisation - KCNA

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said it was "urgent" for North Korea and the United States to halt "irritating and hostile military actions against each other" during talks on Tuesday with U.S. President Donald Trump, North Korea's state media said on Wednesday.

North Korea and the United States should commit to avoid antagonizing each other and take legal, institutional steps to guarantee it, Kim said according to a report by the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).

The report added Trump said he "understood" and promised to halt joint U.S.-South Korea military exercises while talks with the North were continuing.

Read more at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-trump-agree-reciprocal-step-step-actions-towards-002717511.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/kim-trump-agree-reciprocal-step-step-actions-towards-002717511.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:12:19 am
LOL. Yeah right. Their state vehicles are 70's era Continentals for Christs sake.

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZvRRzQV2Hnw/hqdefault.jpg)

65 years of isolation, a state of war, I don't know if that has even ended yet. This is a big task; that some think, should be dealt with in a fairly quick successful way.

Like Lao Tzu said,

(https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/l/laotzu/137141/laotzu1-2x.jpg)

Let alone, even by the words of John Bolton, the last 3 presidents at the least, let this problem fester if not helped it grow.  You won't hear anything about that though.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 13, 2018, 01:14:07 am
65 years of isolation, a state of war, I don't know if that has even ended yet. This is a big task; that some think, should be dealt with in a fairly quick successful way.

Like Lao Tzu said,

(https://www.brainyquote.com/photos_tr/en/l/laotzu/137141/laotzu1-2x.jpg)

Let alone, even by the words of John Bolton, the last 3 presidents at the least, let this problem fester if not helped it grow.  You won't hear anything about that though.

John Bolton is exactly right!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:14:37 am
Quote
North Korea State Media Says Trump Agreed to Lift Sanctions Against North
June 12, 2018, at 8:36 p.m.

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korean state media said on Wednesday U.S. President Donald Trump had agreed to lift sanctions against the North in addition to providing security guarantees in the summit with the North's leader, Kim Jong Un, the previous day.

Trump was cited by North Korea's official KCNA news agency as saying he made the promise after pledging to end joint military exercises with South Korea.

Read more at: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-06-12/north-korea-state-media-says-trump-agreed-to-lift-sanctions-against-north (https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-06-12/north-korea-state-media-says-trump-agreed-to-lift-sanctions-against-north)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 01:18:37 am
@Right_in_Virginia

I hope it all happens that way, I really do.

But does Kim really drive old cars, etc.?  I figured he was pretty much the only person in North Korea who lives in luxury.  He's not short on groceries, clearly. 

His state auto is an older car.  Agree, he's clearly eating for 20, but no one else is --- and fine restaurants are scarce. You know it's like that saying:  How you going to keep 'em on the farm once they've seen Broadway?  Kim needs another lesson or two with the uber capitalist, President Trump, to push him over the edge.   :laugh:

And after Kim's nighttime sightseeing tour in Singapore, I'm hoping this will start to really bother him (maybe it can be included in his next lesson ---  )


(https://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/769/76991.ngsversion.1464598801664.adapt.1900.1.jpg)


@CatherineofAragon



Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 01:20:18 am


North Korea state media may be giving Kim some cover against "removal".   :pondering:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:20:44 am
Quote
Sen. Tom Cotton: We'll know before 2019 military exercises if Kim Jong-Un is committed to deal

By Alex Swoyer - The Washington Times - Tuesday, June 12, 2018

Sen. Tom Cotton said Tuesday he wasn’t concerned about President Trump agreeing to stop the “war games” in his conversation with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un.

The “war games” are joint military exercises between the South Korean and the U.S. military that occur every year in the spring.

It was one of the concessions Mr. Trump was willing to give in order to have Mr. Kim agree to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

Read more at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/12/tom-cotton-well-know-before-2019-military-exercise/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/12/tom-cotton-well-know-before-2019-military-exercise/)

Quote
Hewitt played a clip that showed Trump saying the agreement with North Korea depends on the United States being able to verify if Kim is taking steps towards denuclearization.

"That’s the key, Hugh," Cotton said. "Again, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating in the coming months. Heads of state don’t negotiate the technical details of a verification regime. That’ll be left up to Secretary Pompeo and other members of our national security team."

...

"I believe that Donald Trump is going to continue the campaign of maximum pressure, and he will not grant one-sided unilateral concessions," Cotton said. "And if Kim Jong Un reverses his commitments on a much bigger issue than trade negotiations, than what the president said about Justin Trudeau will be repeated tenfold about Kim Jong Un."

http://freebeacon.com/national-security/cotton-continue-campaign-maximum-pressure-north-korea/ (http://freebeacon.com/national-security/cotton-continue-campaign-maximum-pressure-north-korea/)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:25:07 am
@Right_in_Virginia

I hope it all happens that way, I really do.

But does Kim really drive old cars, etc.?  I figured he was pretty much the only person in North Korea who lives in luxury.  He's not short on groceries, clearly.

@CatherineofAragon

About 20% of the country is the ruling class.  Those people dont go hungry and can get luxuries.  There aren't a lot of cars but this group has em.  Yes they are old because they lack cash and access to banking.

They tend to kidnap people and dont steal cars.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 01:25:49 am
His state auto is an older car.  Agree, he's clearly eating for 20, but no one else is --- and fine restaurants are scarce. You know it's like that saying:  How you going to keep on the farm once they've seen Broadway?  Kim needs another lesson or two with the uber capitalist, President Trump, to push him over the edge.   :laugh:

And after Kim's nighttime sightseeing tour in Singapore, I'm hoping this will start to really bother him (maybe it can be included in his next lesson ---  )


(https://news.nationalgeographic.com/content/dam/news/photos/000/769/76991.ngsversion.1464598801664.adapt.1900.1.jpg)


@CatherineofAragon

@Right_in_Virginia

Well, I see that Kim has been invited to Washington.  My husband won't dismiss the possibility that Trump's advisors are telling him to pile on and show Kim some more capitalist delights.  Like you said, he's young, still.  Perpetuating his father's hard line might not be so easy now that he's had a taste.  We can hope, anyway.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 01:27:03 am
@CatherineofAragon

About 20% of the country is the ruling class.  Those people dont go hungry and can get luxuries.  There aren't a lot of cars but this group has em.  Yes they are old because they lack cash and access to banking.

They tend to kidnap people and dont steal cars.

@driftdiver

I was reading today that Japanese people are kidnapped off their own beaches.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: mystery-ak on June 13, 2018, 01:32:25 am
@driftdiver

I was reading today that Japanese people are kidnapped off their own beaches.

I wonder if that came up..I think Abe wanted that as part of the agreement that they would be returned to Japan
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:33:40 am
Exactly right.  Those celebrating are premature IMO.  Maybe something will come of this but the details include no real concessions from Kim (even in exchange for concessions from Trump).  Kim has 120K people in prison camps.  To say that he loves his people is absurd IMO.  To get insight into life inside North Korea prison camps, I found this book a great read:

https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916 (https://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916)

This guy was born in a prison camp and didn't even know meat existed until he escaped.

@Concerned

There are more like 200 to 300k in the labor camps.  Kim didn't put them there.  His father and grandfather created the system.  He hasnt stopped it but who knows if he could without being removed and killed himself.

The camps are as bad as anything the nazis or Japanese did.  Rape torture murder are every day occurrences.  They test chemical weapons on families.  Entire families get put there because one person made a mistake, like get caught listening to the wrong music.

Hopefully this approach works to help end these.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 01:33:51 am
@Right_in_Virginia

Well, I see that Kim has been invited to Washington.  My husband won't dismiss the possibility that Trump's advisors are telling him to pile on and show Kim some more capitalist delights.  Like you said, he's young, still.  Perpetuating his father's hard line might not be so easy now that he's had a taste.  We can hope, anyway. 

If it doesn't work...then nothing ventured, nothing gained.  If it DOES work and has Kim running toward the money throwing out nukes along the way .... this could turn out to be one of the greatest psyops in American history. 

Here's hoping    (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/47/9f/5e/479f5ec3dc9832d2758b6feb9822b982.png)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 13, 2018, 01:35:10 am
    @TomSea you may have me confused with someone else.  I never insinuated anything about the later announcement of pulling out of the War Preparations, I really don't think that keeps the Pentagon up at night. 
     I do hope President Trump  can pull this off, he's got my nomination for the Galaxy Peace Prize, screw the Nobel.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:38:05 am
@driftdiver

I was reading today that Japanese people are kidnapped off their own beaches.

@CatherineofAragon

Not so much since this Kim took over.  His father and grandfather would certainly do that.  Mostly people with special skills or pretty girls.   They would send people into the schools to find girls.  No choice of course for the girl.

I know of one American who was kidnapped to work as an English teacher.  He was given a wife when he arrived.  They would also target actors singers and other talent to entertain him.

The young Kim probably doesn't like living there.  He was educated in Switzerland so he knows what 1st world is.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 01:38:39 am
@driftdiver

I was reading today that Japanese people are kidnapped off their own beaches.


Yes, it was a program to learn language and culture from different places to conduct espionage.  Really sinister and bizarre stuff.....

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/north-koreas-abduction-project (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/north-koreas-abduction-project)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:42:37 am
I wonder if that came up..I think Abe wanted that as part of the agreement that they would be returned to Japan

@mystery-ak

Apparently Trump raised the issue of human rights but it didn't go anywhere.     Those that are alive will probably get released if this works. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 01:43:35 am
I wonder if that came up..I think Abe wanted that as part of the agreement that they would be returned to Japan

Quote
Japan PM Shinzo Abe thanks Donald Trump for raising North Korea’s abductions with Kim Jong-un
South China Morning Post, Jun 12, 2018

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe welcomed the joint statement signed by US President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un in Singapore as a first step in the denuclearisation of North Korea.

“We see this as a step in a comprehensive resolution,” Abe said in Tokyo after he spoke by phone with Trump.

Japan wants North Korea to agree to a complete, verifiable and irreversible denuclearisation. In the joint statement Kim committed North Korea “to work towards complete denuclearisation of the Korean Peninsula”.

Abe added that he “would like to thank the president (Trump) for raising the abduction issue,” referring to Japan’s demand that Pyongyang release any remaining Japanese people it abducted to train its spies.

"I brought it up absolutely and they are going to be working on that,” Trump said at a news conference following his historic summit with Kim, when asked whether the abduction issue came up during their meeting.

More:  http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/diplomacy/article/2150426/japan-pm-shinzo-abe-thanks-donald-trump-raising-north-koreas (http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/diplomacy/article/2150426/japan-pm-shinzo-abe-thanks-donald-trump-raising-north-koreas)

I doubt it's going to be part of the denuclearization treaty .... but the President did bring it up and it sounds like Abe is now waiting for the go ahead to deal bilaterally with Kim on this.

@mystery-ak
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:44:31 am

Yes, it was a program to learn language and culture from different places to conduct espionage.  Really sinister and bizarre stuff.....

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/north-koreas-abduction-project (https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/north-koreas-abduction-project)

When I was there I had three people try to pull me out the back door of a coffee shop.  When I started fighting back it was noticed by other people and the three ran.  They knew my name where I worked and what I did.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:45:54 am
I have heard about some Japanese prisoners in NK. I believe I also heard Otto's parents were in contact with President Trump, I just heard it on the radio hourly news....

Quote
Otto Warmbier's Parents Praise Trump And Hope 'Something Positive' Comes From North Korea Summit

By Associated Press June 12, 2018

(WASHINGTON) — The parents of Otto Warmbier, the American college student who died after being released from a North Korean prison last year, thanked President Donald Trump for the kind words about their son he gave after his historic summit with North Korea’s leader.

Fred and Cindy Warmbier said in a brief statement after Trump met Kim Jong Un in Singapore that they appreciated the president’s comments about their son and family.

“We appreciate President Trump’s recent comments about our family,” they said. “We are proud of Otto and miss him. Hopefully something positive can come from this.”

http://time.com/5310355/otto-warmbier-us-north-korea-summit/ (http://time.com/5310355/otto-warmbier-us-north-korea-summit/)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 13, 2018, 01:59:55 am
@Concerned

There are more like 200 to 300k in the labor camps.  Kim didn't put them there.  His father and grandfather created the system.  He hasnt stopped it but who knows if he could without being removed and killed himself.

The camps are as bad as anything the nazis or Japanese did.  Rape torture murder are every day occurrences.  They test chemical weapons on families.  Entire families get put there because one person made a mistake, like get caught listening to the wrong music.

Hopefully this approach works to help end these.

@driftdiver

Reports I've read are there are 100K to 120K in prison camps.  Below is a report from Fox that says there are "nearly 100K political prisoners".  The reports I've read are worse than Nazi or Japanese prison camps.  The book I previously referenced was shocking to me especially given it's the 21st century.  One 6-7 year old girl was beaten to death for stealing a couple of grains of rice.   Horrible!  Hard for me to believe that the guy who allows this to happen, "loves his people", but that's what Trump said.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/10/sen-orrin-hatch-north-korea-should-abandon-human-rights-abuses-in-addition-to-its-nukes.html (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/10/sen-orrin-hatch-north-korea-should-abandon-human-rights-abuses-in-addition-to-its-nukes.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 02:02:19 am
Quote

The moment when Kim Jong Un met John Bolton, Trump's hawkish national security adviser who North Korea called 'human scum'
David Choi

(https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5b1f4afa1ae6621f008b4d72-640-320.jpg)

    President Donald Trump met with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in a landmark summit in Singapore on Tuesday.
    National security adviser John Bolton was also there with the US delegation.
    North Korea's relationship with John Bolton is tenuous at best. The regime has previously called him "human scum."


While the landmark summit between President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un appeared cordial, the presence of one member of the US delegation, national security adviser John Bolton, may have raised the temperature in the room.

Read more at: http://www.businessinsider.com/john-bolton-at-north-korea-summit-meeting-kim-jong-un-trump-2018-6 (http://www.businessinsider.com/john-bolton-at-north-korea-summit-meeting-kim-jong-un-trump-2018-6)


Quote
Rand Paul Blasts Warhawk John Bolton: I Hope He Was Kept ‘At The Children’s Table’ During NoKo Summit
by Caleb Ecarma | 5:23 pm, June 12th, 2018

Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky blasted National Security Adviser John Bolton by saying he hoped the hawkish White House official was kept at “the children’s table” during President Donald Trump’s North Korea summit.

“John Bolton was at the table — I’m sure the president had that by design,” Fox News host Neil Cavuto noted to Paul while the libertarian-leaning lawmaker appeared on the network. “What is your response?”

“My hope is that he was at the children’s table and that he wasn’t influencing the discussion among adults,” shot back Paul.

Continued with video of full interview with Neil Cavuto: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/rand-paul-blasts-warhawk-john-bolton-i-hope-he-was-kept-at-the-childrens-table-during-noko-summit (https://www.mediaite.com/tv/rand-paul-blasts-warhawk-john-bolton-i-hope-he-was-kept-at-the-childrens-table-during-noko-summit)
/
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 02:03:30 am
@driftdiver

Reports I've read are there are 100K to 120K in prison camps.  Below is a report from Fox that says there are "nearly 100K political prisoners".  The reports I've read are worse than Nazi or Japanese prison camps.  The book I previously referenced was shocking to me especially given it's the 21st century.  One 6-7 year old girl was beaten to death for stealing a couple of grains of rice.   Horrible!  Hard for me to believe that the guy who allows this to happen, "loves his people", but that's what Trump said.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/10/sen-orrin-hatch-north-korea-should-abandon-human-rights-abuses-in-addition-to-its-nukes.html (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/06/10/sen-orrin-hatch-north-korea-should-abandon-human-rights-abuses-in-addition-to-its-nukes.html)

Okay, well, maybe we should all wish for missiles hitting South Korea or a nuclear holocaust. That'll prove you right.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 13, 2018, 02:05:10 am
Trump: Kim summit takes world 'a big step back from potential nuclear catastrophe'
BY LUIS SANCHEZ - 06/12/18 09:55 PM EDT


President Trump said on Tuesday that the U.S.-North Korea summit has reduced the risk of “potential Nuclear catastrophe” and thanked North Korean leader Kim Jong Un for meeting with him.

“The World has taken a big step back from potential Nuclear catastrophe! No more rocket launches, nuclear testing or research! The hostages are back home with their families. Thank you to Chairman Kim, our day together was historic!” Trump tweeted on Tuesday night.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391981-trump-kim-summit-takes-world-a-big-step-back-from-potential-nuclear (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/391981-trump-kim-summit-takes-world-a-big-step-back-from-potential-nuclear)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 02:09:28 am
Okay, well, maybe we should all wish for missiles hitting South Korea or a nuclear holocaust. That'll prove you right.

I'm beginning to wish they fall on a select few houses in the US.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 13, 2018, 02:09:39 am
Okay, well, maybe we should all wish for missiles hitting South Korea or a nuclear holocaust. That'll prove you right.

@TomSea

I don't think I've ever posted anything that indicates I "wish for missiles hitting South Korea or a nuclear holocaust".  I'm simply providing some data I found from reading a book.  If you think killing a 6-7 year old girl for stealing a few grains of rice is right then we simply disagree.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 13, 2018, 02:17:36 am
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-29DsZcbdTo#)

Sean Hannity interview with President Trump today
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 02:26:06 am
When I was there I had three people try to pull me out the back door of a coffee shop.  When I started fighting back it was noticed by other people and the three ran.  They knew my name where I worked and what I did.


Was their program known at the time?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 02:28:48 am
South Korean news is saying Trump promised 3 more things to NK.  They dont know what was promised.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 02:30:20 am

Was their program known at the time?

@edpc

Dunno but they knew what I did.  Even told me my work number.  I had access to a lot of classified stuff including planning.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 02:35:06 am
South Korean news is saying Trump promised 3 more things to NK.  They dont know what was promised.


They must’ve had one of these in Kim’s room.


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/DQ.qAB7FFbOMhSrHXVu6Rg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz01MDA-/http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61B2OUeEKAL._SL1181_.jpg.cf.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 13, 2018, 02:37:58 am
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/99/78/5c/99785c5146aaa4a97f1a21672a0b16ea.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 13, 2018, 02:38:25 am

They must’ve had one of these in Kim’s room.


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/DQ.qAB7FFbOMhSrHXVu6Rg--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz01MDA-/http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61B2OUeEKAL._SL1181_.jpg.cf.jpg)

Is that a neti pot?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 02:44:01 am
Is that a neti pot?


I suppose it could serve as one, though the spout hole position is a bit awkward.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 03:33:58 am
Quote
North Korea Says Trump Agreed To 'Step-By-Step' Denuclearization

North Korea says U.S. President Donald Trump has agreed to a "step-by-step" denuclearization process, with each country taking simultaneous, reciprocal steps to ease tensions and establish peace between the longtime enemies.

North Korea's first official statement early on June 13 after a historic summit between Trump and its leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore was delivered by the official Korean Central News Agency.

The statement appeared to go beyond the agreement signed a day earlier by the two leaders, saying that both leaders"recognized" during their meeting "that it is important to abide by the principle of step-by-step and simultaneous action in achieving peace, stability, and denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula."


Read more at: https://www.rferl.org/a/north-korea-says-trump-agreed-step-by-step-denuclearization-simultaneous-reciprocal-measures-mutual-visits/29287688.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/north-korea-says-trump-agreed-step-by-step-denuclearization-simultaneous-reciprocal-measures-mutual-visits/29287688.html)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 03:42:43 am
Human Rights is an issue that should concern us all; until all men are free, no man is free.

As said, I'm sure the North Koreans would string up Kim like Mussolini, that's why it will be difficult to get a lot done on the freedom side which the people surely want. Reunification and things like that will help.

What's the old adage? Do not let the perfect be the enemy of the possible. @Concerned

Quote


The human rights atrocities under Kim Jong-un that were not mentioned during summit




    Neil Connor, Beijing

12 June 2018 • 1:53pm

It was all smiles and platitudes when Donald Trump met Kim Jong-un at their historic Singapore summit.

Mr Trump spoke of a "new history" being made, but North Korea's past history of human rights abuses appeared to have been forgotten in Singapore.

Here are a number of atrocities and abuses which have been left on the back burner:

Read more at: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/12/human-rights-atrocities-kim-jong-un-not-mentioned-summit/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/12/human-rights-atrocities-kim-jong-un-not-mentioned-summit/)

Human rights are a serious problem, they are in China as well and probably notable enough in Russia. What about Nigeria? I agree it is a problem we should all be concerned with. Who gave "most favored nation" status to China? Have people ever even spoken about this?

Quote
Trump Says Kim Jong Un, a Noted Human Rights Violator, 'Has to Be a Rough Guy'

Following his historic meeting with Kim Jong Un, U.S. President Donald Trump said Kim “has to be a rough guy,”but is also a leader who "loves his people," despite the North Korean leader's disturbing human rights history.

Trump told VOA contributor Greta Van Susteren in an interview in Singapore, where the two leaders met, he discussed North Korea’s dismal human rights record and believes Kim has “a great feeling” for its citizens and “wants to do right by them.”

When asked about Kim’s history of starving and brutalizing his people, Trump responded by saying, “Look, he’s doing what he’s seen done” and added U.S. sanctions against Pyongyang “will remain on until we can start dismantling ... the nuclear weapons.”

...

(https://gdb.voanews.com/1B1C9A1B-4AE7-4F62-BB07-2D99091EC8E0_w650_r0_s.jpg)
FILE - In this Feb. 29, 2016, file photo, American student Otto Warmbier speaks as he is presented to reporters in Pyongyang, North Korea.

https://www.voanews.com/a/trump-says-north-korean-leader-kim-jong-un-a-noted-human-rights-violator-has-to-be-a-rough-guy-/4435708.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/trump-says-north-korean-leader-kim-jong-un-a-noted-human-rights-violator-has-to-be-a-rough-guy-/4435708.html)

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 13, 2018, 04:30:19 am
Who gave "most favored nation" status to China? Have people ever even spoken about this?

I recall watching the Republican platform debates on this around 1990.  While there was a lot of sentiment against giving the godless commies MFN status, the position that won the day was that the only way we were getting any opening up was via the cultural exchanges and the like that were a part of MFN status.   If we didn't get them opened up, they could continue whatever abuses they wanted, without their people being exposed to other viewpoints, and without us having any leverage.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 09:12:50 am
ISIS, worse human rights offenders around.... hmmn, I wonder where people have been when they have been defeated?  Crickets. As usual.  Other like instances can be brought up as well. Oh well, we know we can count on hearing from them, when something is wrong.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 10:49:13 am
@Right_in_Virginia

Well, I see that Kim has been invited to Washington.  My husband won't dismiss the possibility that Trump's advisors are telling him to pile on and show Kim some more capitalist delights.  Like you said, he's young, still.  Perpetuating his father's hard line might not be so easy now that he's had a taste.  We can hope, anyway.

@CatherineofAragon  88devil

(https://i.imgflip.com/2c467n.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 11:03:49 am
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!

4:56 AM - Jun 13, 2018


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/)



OK, then.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 13, 2018, 11:04:29 am
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

1h

Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!




OK, then.

:bigsilly:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 12:13:00 pm
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!

4:56 AM - Jun 13, 2018


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/)



OK, then.

This stupid shit is why I'm such a niggler.  Why not just go all in and start urging people to vacay in NK.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: catfish1957 on June 13, 2018, 12:19:47 pm
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. [b]There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. [/b]Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!

4:56 AM - Jun 13, 2018


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/)



OK, then.

Just when you thought Trump couldn't top himself . 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 12:51:14 pm
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!

4:56 AM - Jun 13, 2018



It will be completely unsurprising when this becomes Trump's "Read My Lips" moment once Lil' Kim and the Commies prove what a gullible pushover Trump is.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 12:55:37 pm
This stupid shit is why I'm such a niggler.  Why not just go all in and start urging people to vacay in NK.

WOW talk about stupid shit.  Comparing a press release trying to ease peoples fears of nuclear war and celebrate a successful meeting to encouraging people to go to NK for vacation.


(http://www.bikerman.co.uk/images/stupidburns.gif)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: catfish1957 on June 13, 2018, 12:59:06 pm
It will be completely unsurprising when this becomes Trump's "Read My Lips" moment once Lil' Kim and the Commies prove what a gullible pushover Trump is.

I've heard that he single handedly cancelled US-SK Joint Readiness exercises.  Blindsided Pentagon and S. Korean Military   Kim's already duped Donnie.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 01:03:56 pm
I've heard that he single handedly cancelled US-SK Joint Readiness exercises.  Blindsided Pentagon and S. Korean Military   Kim's already duped Donnie.

I've already read the ForeverTrumps® explain those concerns away already.

It's not about the substance.

It's about the emotions of the moment and assuaging everyone's concerns and fears.

The sea levels have fallen. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:06:56 pm
I've already read the ForeverTrumps® explain those concerns away already.

It's not about the substance.

It's about the emotions of the moment and assuaging everyone's concerns and fears.

The sea levels have fallen.

@catfish1957 @INVAR
Gee and I thought the military reported to him, so yeah he can cancel these exercises if he wants.   I don't think he should have but all these claims you're making are ridiculous.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 13, 2018, 01:20:00 pm
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump


Just landed - a long trip, but everybody can now feel much safer than the day I took office. There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea. Meeting with Kim Jong Un was an interesting and very positive experience. North Korea has great potential for the future!

4:56 AM - Jun 13, 2018


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-claims-end-to-nuclear-threat-from-n-korea-tells-u-s-to-sleep-well/)



OK, then.

That may be less a statement about any agreement reached, and more an acknowledgement about their program going off the rails when that mountain fractured.  There have been reports that not only was that site badly damaged, but that NK lost its best 200 nuclear scientists/engineers.  I imagine Trump has gotten more accurate intel on that than we have.  So if that is true, that could explain both his statement and why NK may be giving up those ambitions anyway.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:22:40 pm
That may be less a statement about any agreement reached, and more an acknowledgement about their program going off the rails when that mountain fractured.

Possibly included is the loss of a major portion of their scientific staff who were inside that mountain when it fractured.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:24:18 pm
WOW talk about stupid shit.  Comparing a press release trying to ease peoples fears of nuclear war and celebrate a successful meeting to encouraging people to go to NK for vacation.


(http://www.bikerman.co.uk/images/stupidburns.gif)

There's a difference between saying something to ease fears and making a demonstrably false statement.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 13, 2018, 01:24:37 pm
Possibly included is the loss of a major portion of their scientific staff who were inside that mountain when it fractured.

Not to mention the loss of Iranian scientists.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:25:25 pm
Possibly included is the loss of a major portion of their scientific staff who were inside that mountain when it fractured.

We can only hope.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:26:19 pm
@catfish1957 @INVAR
Gee and I thought the military reported to him, so yeah he can cancel these exercises if he wants.   I don't think he should have but all these claims you're making are ridiculous.

There is a proper protocol for doing this and you know it.  Especially when it comes to exercises on your allies turf. They shouldn't find out about it when the news reports on it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 13, 2018, 01:27:03 pm
There's a difference between saying something to ease fears and making a demonstrably false statement.

It's like "Today there are no longer any Nuclear weapons pointed at our children."  Another demonstrably false statement, only the Dems ate it up because Clinton said it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:27:27 pm
We can only hope.

No hope involved, SK news reported there was a significant loss of life when it happened.  Much of it the team working on the nuke.   Not the entire staff but quite a number.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:29:16 pm
There is a proper protocol for doing this and you know it.  Especially when it comes to exercises on your allies turf. They shouldn't find out about it when the news reports on it.

Yeah Trump is known for following protocol.  /s

For years people have bitched about ineffective politicians and diplomats, along comes a guy who ignores those conventions but get things done.  Then you cry about his methods.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:31:31 pm
It's like "Today there are no longer any Nuclear weapons pointed at our children."  Another demonstrably false statement, only the Dems ate it up because Clinton said it.

Precisely.  As unpredictable as the Norks are Kim could get a bug up his ass and decide to fire missiles today.  Until he can't push a button and launch even one nuclear missile...there is a nuclear threat from North Korea.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 13, 2018, 01:31:40 pm
We've been doing multiple military exercises every year for decades in South Korea.  The biggest one of those exercises, Foal Eagle, already took place in April.  Cancelling one of them as a gesture of good faith costs us absolutely nothing.  Now if Trump ended sanctions, or gave economic aid, that would be a much more substantive act.

Also, that's not the kind of decision that is irreversible.  And it actually gives Trump another weapon to use.  If NK drags its feet over the next month or so, he can just announce that they are back on.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:35:01 pm
Yeah Trump is known for following protocol.  /s

For years people have bitched about ineffective politicians and diplomats, along comes a guy who ignores those conventions but get things done.  Then you cry about his methods.

So if you were a 1SG you'd have no problem with a PV2 skipping his entire chain of command to go talk to the Sgt. Major of The Army about a problem before he consults even his team leader?

That's the same kind of breach of protocol and proper notification and even common courtesy that Trump displayed by not consulting with his commanders on the ground in Korea...the Joint Chiefs or even his hand picked "Mad Dog" SecDef before announcing this unilateral withdrawl from the exercises.

Had Obama done this you'd be pissed and talking about everything I'm talking about right now and you know it. 

But because it's Trump.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 13, 2018, 01:35:16 pm
ISIS, worse human rights offenders around.... hmmn, I wonder where people have been when they have been defeated?  Crickets. As usual.  Other like instances can be brought up as well. Oh well, we know we can count on hearing from them, when something is wrong.

Tom, who is it you want to hear from about ISIS on this NK thread?  I'm not sure what you're saying.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:36:09 pm
We've been doing multiple military exercises every year for decades in South Korea.  The biggest one of those exercises, Foal Eagle, already took place in April.  Cancelling one of them as a gesture of good faith costs us absolutely nothing.  Now if Trump ended sanctions, or gave economic aid, that would be a much more substantive act.

Also, that's not the kind of decision that is irreversible.  And it actually gives Trump another weapon to use.  If NK drags its feet over the next month or so, he can just announce that they are back on.

It's gives North Korea a nice big propaganda win and lets Kim go back to Pyongyang crowing about how he got the U.S. to fold on an issue they've resisted for decades.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:37:04 pm
Cancelled exercises may not occur until 2019 and only if North Korea is following de-nuclearization.

Also, that one facility reportedly set off higher levels of radiation, radiation cloud. That's got to be bad for the whole area as well.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:38:02 pm
Tom, who is it you want to hear from about ISIS on this NK thread?  I'm not sure what you're saying.

@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:38:08 pm
Tom, who is it you want to hear from about ISIS on this NK thread?  I'm not sure what you're saying.

The people who may only comment on human rights (among other things) when they can be critical of Trump.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:38:31 pm
So if you were a 1SG you'd have no problem with a PV2 skipping his entire chain of command to go talk to the Sgt. Major of The Army about a problem before he consults even his team leader?

That's the same kind of breach of protocol and proper notification and even common courtesy that Trump displayed by not consulting with his commanders on the ground in Korea...the Joint Chiefs or even his hand picked "Mad Dog" SecDef before announcing this unilateral withdrawl from the exercises.

Had Obama done this you'd be pissed and talking about everything I'm talking about right now and you know it. 

But because it's Trump.

@txradioguy
Sure I'd have a problem with a low ranking guy skipping the chain going up.

But if a general comes down and wants to talk to the private, I'm gonna say "Yes Sir".  Good grief does that really have to be explained?

I already said I don't think he should have done it.   Its not the big deal you are making it out to be.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:39:40 pm
@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.

You can't read someone's mind.

@Concerned  brought up human rights. The Trump detractors seem to comment on matters often when they think they can criticize the administration.  Such seem to be disingenuous arguments.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:41:43 pm
@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.

@txradioguy
Two sides of the same coin.

Would you rather have your head cut off or be run over with a steam roller?  Perhaps pinned to the ground so the cows can eat you?

Its a stupid argument.  Both are evil.   Making steps towards stopping one of them is not a bad thing.   

Perhaps you'd rather just sit back and do nothing and let more people be murdered?   Or maybe attack and start a nuclear war.   yeah thats the ticket.

Just six months ago many people were saying there were no good alternatives for solving the NK mess.  This summit is a damn good alternative.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:46:43 pm
@txradioguy
Two sides of the same coin.

No it isn't.  It's trying to rationalize being nice to an evil POS just because he gave you a photo op.

So if Trump pulls off a meeting with Mullah Omar and starts talking about what a "smart and strong" leader Mullah Omar is...will you dismiss his brutality the same way you are right now with Kim?

Quote
Perhaps you'd rather just sit back and do nothing and let more people be murdered?   Or maybe attack and start a nuclear war.   yeah thats the ticket.

Quit being hysterical.  No one here is saying we should start a nuclear war.  That's a just a BS talking point from the defend Trump at all costs crowd designed to dissuade serious discussion about this.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 01:47:19 pm
WOW talk about stupid shit.  Comparing a press release trying to ease peoples fears of nuclear war and celebrate a successful meeting to encouraging people to go to NK for vacation.


So typical. I criticize POTUS and AT shows up to criticize me.  I really don't understand the emotional investment and appearance that they take a criticism of POTUS as a personal insult.

Thjs was not a press release. It was (another) unforced Twit up.  There are good ways to say that the meeting was positive without resorting to crazy hyperbole.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 13, 2018, 01:48:03 pm
OK, I'm out of this thread.  Neither opposing side here knows what is going to happen, or really even what has happened, but that doesn't keep them from arguing from the few crumbs of knowledge that they have.  Endless bickering over what you don't know.  Ain't got time for that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 13, 2018, 01:48:10 pm
It's gives North Korea a nice big propaganda win and lets Kim go back to Pyongyang crowing about how he got the U.S. to fold on an issue they've resisted for decades.

So what?  I keep hearing about a "propaganda win", but what is the actual, tangible value to NK (or cost to us) of that "propaganda win"?  What does it actually get them?

This is my biggest issue with foreign policy pundits and politicians.  They put more emphasis on "optics" than they do on real-world, tangible actions.  It's like a politician who bases every single decision or statement on the short-term effect on polls.  The value of such "wins" is fleeting at best.  Nobody will care about that "propaganda win" in six months.  It will be completely irrelevant.

And what happens if in 90 days, Trump is calling him a big fat liar who broke his promises, and who presides over a bankrupt, starving country?   What does that do to any "propaganda win" the NK's  may have gotten from this meeting?

People are far too concerned about how things "look", than what actually happens.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 01:49:09 pm
No it isn't.  It's trying to rationalize being nice to an evil POS just because he gave you a photo op.

So if Trump pulls off a meeting with Mullah Omar and starts talking about what a "smart and strong" leader Mullah Omar is...will you dismiss his brutality the same way you are right now with Kim?

Quit being hysterical.  No one here is saying we should start a nuclear war.  That's a just a BS talking point from the defend Trump at all costs crowd designed to dissuade serious discussion about this.

It's another verse of "If you don't support Trump, you support Hillary."  Just in a different key this time.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 01:49:10 pm
It's gives North Korea a nice big propaganda win and lets Kim go back to Pyongyang crowing about how he got the U.S. to fold on an issue they've resisted for decades.


Which they've already reported in their state media.

Most Western observers have said the deal appears to include significant concessions from the US while including no new commitments from North Korea nor details on how denuclearisation could be achieved.

KCNA has focused on those elements as a great breakthrough for North Korea.

"Trump expressed his intention to halt US-South Korea joint military exercises, offer security guarantees to the North and lift sanctions against it along with advance in improving the mutual relationship through dialogue and negotiation," it said.


https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-44464236 (https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-44464236)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 13, 2018, 01:49:16 pm
@Sanguine he's trying to play the moral equivalence card.  Using the red herring of "North Korea isn't as bad as Daesh (ISIS)" as a defence for Trump now saying glowing things about a brutal despot.

Thanks, TRG.  I was being slow I guess.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 13, 2018, 01:49:18 pm
You can't read someone's mind.

@Concerned  brought up human rights. The Trump detractors seem to comment on matters often when they think they can criticize the administration.  Such seem to be disingenuous arguments.

I didn't initially bring up human rights, but I did respond to someone who did with some statistics about North Korean "concentration camps" (their word) and a book recommendation about what life in those prison camps are really like.

@TomSea
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 01:49:30 pm
You can't read someone's mind.

You're an open book.  It doesn't take mind reading to see what you're trying to do.

Quote
@Concerned  brought up human rights. The Trump detractors seem to comment on matters often when they think they can criticize the administration.  Such seem to be disingenuous arguments.

And you're the one being disingenuous by defending Trump talking to one of the biggest human rights violators in the world by saying "well...ISIS is worse".

That's such a simplistic and simpleton knee jerk response it boggles the mind.

Tell me...which country in the middle east has ISIS established a recognized government in?

You're comparing a nebulous terrorist organization to the leader of a country.

 **nononono*
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 13, 2018, 01:52:08 pm
OK, I'm out of this thread.  Neither opposing side here knows what is going to happen, or really even what has happened, but that doesn't keep them from arguing from the few crumbs of knowledge that they have.  Endless bickering over what you don't know.  Ain't got time for that.

@Sanguine

I'm hanging around in the hope that someone will finally regale me with all the success stories of previous presidents attempting to untie the Korean knot. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:53:12 pm
So typical. I criticize POTUS and AT shows up to criticize me.  I really don't understand the emotional investment and appearance that they take a criticism of POTUS as a personal insult.

Thjs was not a press release. It was (another) unforced Twit up.  There are good ways to say that the meeting was positive without resorting to crazy hyperbole.

@RoosGirl
You compare Trumps statement to an invitation to vacay in NK and then complain about hyperbole?


 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 01:54:55 pm
No it isn't.  It's trying to rationalize being nice to an evil POS just because he gave you a photo op.

So if Trump pulls off a meeting with Mullah Omar and starts talking about what a "smart and strong" leader Mullah Omar is...will you dismiss his brutality the same way you are right now with Kim?

Quit being hysterical.  No one here is saying we should start a nuclear war.  That's a just a BS talking point from the defend Trump at all costs crowd designed to dissuade serious discussion about this.

@txradioguy
Oh BS, 6 months ago everyone thought either Trump was gonna launch on NK or they were gonna launch on us.   Face it, the summit was a good thing and all your whining doesn't change that fact.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 13, 2018, 01:56:51 pm
@Sanguine

I'm hanging around in the hope that someone will finally regale me with all the success stories of previous presidents attempting to untie the Korean knot.

There aren't any.  Zero.  And there's a pretty good chance this will end up exactly the same.

But there is absolutely zero harm in trying -- that accident at the NK test site may have created an opportunity that hasn't previously existed.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 01:57:37 pm
@RoosGirl
You compare Trumps statement to an invitation to vacay in NK and then complain about hyperbole?


 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

I didn't compare it to anything.  That was sarcasm.  I forgot you had no sense of humor, I guess I should have explained in further detail.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 01:58:01 pm
Quote
Still Confused about the Trump-Kim Summit? 12 Pressing Questions, Answered
Bloomberg

What’s the best-case and worst-case scenario we can hope for from the Trump-Kim commitment? And how can anyone be sure that North Korea is really denuclearizing? Well, for starters, the two sides would need to establish what denuclearization means.

The historic meeting of the two world leaders in Singapore on Tuesday left many open questions. Bloomberg hosted a live chat about the Trump-Kim summit on the LINE messaging app, where people tuned in to have their questions answers by editors. Below is an abridged transcript.

Between Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un, who got the better deal?

Read more at: http://fortune.com/2018/06/13/trump-kim-north-korea-summit-questions-answered/ (http://fortune.com/2018/06/13/trump-kim-north-korea-summit-questions-answered/)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 13, 2018, 01:58:16 pm
Yeah Trump is known for following protocol.  /s

For years people have bitched about ineffective politicians and diplomats, along comes a guy who ignores those conventions but get things done.  Then you cry about his methods.



He hasn’t gotten anything done!

Except now he’s nominated for the Nobel peace prize - just like Obastard.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 13, 2018, 02:00:05 pm
There aren't any.  Zero.  And there's a pretty good chance this will end up exactly the same.

But there is absolutely zero harm in trying -- that accident at the NK test site may have created an opportunity that hasn't previously existed.

That's what I thought! But we have to do our best to take down the guy who is at least trying to exploit an opportunity /s
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 02:01:10 pm
I didn't compare it to anything.  That was sarcasm.  I forgot you had no sense of humor, I guess I should have explained in further detail.

@RoosGirl
Guess you don't like being poked any more than I do.  hmmmm
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 02:02:17 pm
That's what I thought! But we have to do our best to take down the guy who is at least trying to exploit an opportunity /s

Seems that way.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 02:04:09 pm
I'm hanging around in the hope that someone will finally regale me with all the success stories of previous presidents attempting to untie the Korean knot.


Would a cameo by Dorothy Gale count towards a regale?


(I'm going to miss you most of all, Scarecrow ....)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 02:10:09 pm
He hasn’t gotten anything done!

Except now he’s nominated for the Nobel peace prize - just like Obastard.

To be fair, Trump did a lot more to deserve the nomination for such a worthless 'award' than His Heinous did.

They awarded him the 'prize' simply because he was president.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Victoria33 on June 13, 2018, 02:10:38 pm
"Who gave "most favored nation" status to China? Have people ever even spoken about this?"
I recall watching the Republican platform debates on this around 1990.  While there was a lot of sentiment against giving the godless commies MFN status, the position that won the day was that the only way we were getting any opening up was via the cultural exchanges and the like that were a part of MFN status.   If we didn't get them opened up, they could continue whatever abuses they wanted, without their people being exposed to other viewpoints, and without us having any leverage.
@Suppressed
@mystery-ak

I was in Hong Kong just before it became part of China again in 1997.  It was a fantastic city, so many products being made there.  I bought Members Only jackets made there for $5 each.  Both of us had suits made; took two days for completed suit.  Had heavy gold bracelet made in one day.

Then we went to China, by water boat.  When we got off boat, customs wrote down every jewelry item we had on.  Before we got there we were told to leave our jewelry at our hotel, except for wedding rings.  Your watch was inspected and written down.  The reason for this was, the govn. didn't want us to give a Chinese anything so that Chinese person would have something another didn't have.

The Chinese govn. determined where we could go and govn. agent stayed with us. In a village we were told every household had the same number of plates, cups, bowls - no one had something another didn't have.

I thought of Hong Kong having to go to this when the Chinese took it over in a few months after we were there.  We were told companies in Hong Kong had already sent their money out of Hong Kong so the Chinese govn. would not take it.
We were taken to a govn. building for lunch.  We were taken to one govn. store to buy items. I got a tea pot and cups as I bought those in every country I visited.

When we left China, customs counted our jewelry and compared it to what we had when we got there.  At some point, I contracted the Chinese flu.  Was very sick person on the flight back home.  Went to doctor when got home.  He said I didn't have pneumonia and gave me meds to get over this flu.  I wouldn't go back to China.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 13, 2018, 02:12:05 pm
To be fair, Trump did a lot more to deserve the nomination for such a worthless 'award' than His Heinous did.

They awarded him the 'prize' simply because he was president.

Fair enough.  I agree with you on that point. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 02:16:22 pm
@txradioguy
Oh BS, 6 months ago everyone thought either Trump was gonna launch on NK or they were gonna launch on us.   Face it, the summit was a good thing and all your whining doesn't change that fact.

Who's this mysterious "everyone" you speak of? I don't recall anyone here saying that. I know I didn't say anything close to that.

The "summit" was a nothing burger. A photo op that accomplished nothing.

What everyone should honestly wait to see the results of...is what comes out of the meetings going on now that the camera lights have been turned off.

The stuff happening as we speak away from the cameras in Singapore will tell us if the Norks are serious or not.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 02:20:55 pm
You're an open book.  It doesn't take mind reading to see what you're trying to do.

And you're the one being disingenuous by defending Trump talking to one of the biggest human rights violators in the world by saying "well...ISIS is worse".

That's such a simplistic and simpleton knee jerk response it boggles the mind.

Tell me...which country in the middle east has ISIS established a recognized government in?

You're comparing a nebulous terrorist organization to the leader of a country.

 **nononono*

All you do is insult people, you can't put together a cogent argument so you rely on personal attacks. Go take your vitriol elsewhere.

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 13, 2018, 02:21:45 pm
@Suppressed
@mystery-ak

I was in Hong Kong just before it became part of China again in 1997.  It was a fantastic city, so many products being made there.  I bought Members Only jackets made there for $5 each.  Both of us had suits made; took two days for completed suit.  Had heavy gold bracelet made in one day.

Then we went to China, by water boat.  When we got off boat, customs wrote down every jewelry item we had on.  Before we got there we were told to leave our jewelry at our hotel, except for wedding rings.  Your watch was inspected and written down.  The reason for this was, the govn. didn't want us to give a Chinese anything so that Chinese person would have something another didn't have.

The Chinese govn. determined where we could go and govn. agent stayed with us. In a village we were told every household had the same number of plates, cups, bowls - no one had something another didn't have.

I thought of Hong Kong having to go to this when the Chinese took it over in a few months after we were there.  We were told companies in Hong Kong had already sent their money out of Hong Kong so the Chinese govn. would not take it.
We were taken to a govn. building for lunch.  We were taken to one govn. store to buy items. I got a tea pot and cups as I bought those in every country I visited.

When we left China, customs counted our jewelry and compared it to what we had when we got there.  At some point, I contracted the Chinese flu.  Was very sick person on the flight back home.  Went to doctor when got home.  He said I didn't have pneumonia and gave me meds to get over this flu.  I wouldn't go back to China.

@Sanguine
If you are looking at posts not directly on topic, why not comment on this one?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 02:22:15 pm
Who's this mysterious "everyone" you speak of? I don't recall anyone here saying that. I know I didn't say anything close to that.

The "summit" was a nothing burger. A photo op that accomplished nothing.

What everyone should honestly wait to see the results of...is what comes out of the meetings going on now that the camera lights have been turned off.

The stuff happening as we speak away from the cameras in Singapore will tell us if the Norks are serious or not.

One sign of potential 'success' is for the Norks to let in Inspectors to verify any supposed 'denuclearization'.

Until that happens, all this Singapore meeting was, is Trump handing Lil' Kim and the Norks an acknowledgement of legitimacy and recognition as a 'good guy'.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 02:23:19 pm
All you do is insult people, you can't put together a cogent argument so you rely on personal attacks. Go take your vitriol elsewhere.

Why don't you just admit you can't come back with a defense for the facts in pointed out that totally deconstruct your straw man argument and move on?

Oh and by the way....pointing out the factual inaccuracies in your straw man argument isn't a personal attack.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 02:25:17 pm
Why don't you just admit you can't come back with a defense for the facts in pointed out that totally deconstruct your straw man argument and move on?

Oh and by the way....pointing out the factual inaccuracies in your straw man argument isn't a personal attack.

C'mon Tx, you should know by now - disagreement IS a personal attack in this brave new normal.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 13, 2018, 02:26:19 pm

The "summit" was a nothing burger. A photo op that accomplished nothing.


@txradioguy

That statement is 100% pure,  USDA choice, bovine fecal matter.  And you know it!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 02:27:32 pm
One sign of potential 'success' is for the Norks to let in Inspectors to verify any supposed 'denuclearization'.

Until that happens, all this Singapore meeting was, is Trump handing Lil' Kim and the Norks an acknowledgement of legitimacy and recognition as a 'good guy'.

Excellent point. The real measure of Trump successfully getting Kim to meet face to face is what happens now that the respective leaders are back home.

I want this to be a success. But it's very premature to claim all the accolades for Trump people are trying to head on him before anything substantial has been agreed on.

That's my only issue with the "summit" at this point.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 02:28:41 pm
@txradioguy

That statement is 100% pure,  USDA choice, bovine fecal matter.  And you know it!

Really?  What important issues were resolved? 

I'll wait for the list.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Victoria33 on June 13, 2018, 02:30:58 pm
@TomSea

Kim went to China for discussion before he went to the summit. China is part of his world; he needs China.  I thought having info. on how China runs its country would be worthwhile on this thread.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 02:31:15 pm
C'mon Tx, you should know by now - disagreement IS a personal attack in this brave new normal.

@INVAR

It may be their "new normal"...but it doesn't mean I have to accept or play along with their definition.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 02:31:31 pm
@txradioguy

That statement is 100% pure,  USDA choice, bovine fecal matter.  And you know it!

Perception being reality, the Summit handed Lil' Kim and the Norks legitimacy and global standing for respect it did not have or possess until yesterday.

They went from a rogue state to a member of the world of nations in a handshake in front of the cameras.

Lil' Kim won big time with that one.

Thus far the only thing 'won' is a marketing landslide for both Lil' Kim and Trump.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 13, 2018, 02:32:51 pm
Really?  What important issues were resolved? 

I'll wait for the list.

A process was started.  That alone makes it very far from a "nothing burger".
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Restored on June 13, 2018, 02:34:42 pm
Perception being reality, the Summit handed Lil' Kim and the Norks legitimacy and global standing for respect it did not have or possess until yesterday.

Disagree. The labor camps didn't disappear overnight and everyone knows about them. What we(US, China, SK) did do was get the hermit out of his cave. Maybe if he sees the light, he will join the rest of the world in the light.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 02:35:04 pm
One sign of potential 'success' is for the Norks to let in Inspectors to verify any supposed 'denuclearization'.

Until that happens, all this Singapore meeting was, is Trump handing Lil' Kim and the Norks an acknowledgement of legitimacy and recognition as a 'good guy'.

You might feel better @INVAR if you listened to the President.  He has outlined the major steps in the denuclearization process quite a few times.  The President's meeting with Kim was step one--and that went better than expected ending with the signing of a mutual understanding.

The  next steps (actually ongoing steps) are working out the devil in the details.  Both the NK negotiating team and the US negotiating team (headed by Pompeo and Bolton) have been and will continue to work out the details, including the timetable, the inspections and the rewards.  Right now, we're pleased, the South Koreans are pleased, the Chinese are pleased, the Japanese are pleased, the Israelis are pleased, the Saudis are pleased.  And it looks like all systems are still a "go".

And yes, the President legitimized Kim--and on the world stage.  And Kim loved it.  So much so he's coming to America to meet with the President for his second round of classes in Making North Korea Great Again.     :laugh:

We're firing on all cylinders, Invar ... it's really okay to be proud.




Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 02:38:54 pm
A process was started.  That alone makes it very far from a "nothing burger".

The "process" was started when Pompeo got the DPRK to agree to the meeting.

What we saw yesterday was a photo op that we're now being told to believe was some kind of meaningful summit.

It wasn't.

The only thing that came of this was Trump undercutting our allies and blindsiding our military leadership by unilaterally announcing cessation of joint exercises and blaming America for why the North continually fails to live up to it's end of every deal it's made with the U.S.



Other than that it was a big nothing burger. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Bigun on June 13, 2018, 02:41:10 pm
The "process" was started when Pompeo got the DPRK to agree to the meeting.

What we saw yesterday was a photo op that we're now being told to believe was some kind of meaningful summit.

It wasn't.

The only thing that came of this was Trump undercutting our allies and blindsiding our military leadership by unilaterally announcing cessation of joint exercises and blaming America for why the North continually fails to live up to it's end of every deal it's made with the U.S.



Other than that it was a big nothing burger.

Nope!  And it will remain untrue no matter how many times you repeat it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 02:42:51 pm
Right now, we're pleased, the South Koreans are pleased, the Chinese are pleased, the Japanese are pleased, the Israelis are pleased, the Saudis are pleased.



(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/ov2c6J6QKK.ZwyN_biZ3eQ--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz03MTE-/https://1v1d1e1lmiki1lgcvx32p49h8fe-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/1528779277-dennis-rodman-cry-pm.jpg.cf.jpg)


You forgot to mention how it even made Xerxes, from the film 300, weep like a baby.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 13, 2018, 02:43:49 pm
We've been doing multiple military exercises every year for decades in South Korea.  The biggest one of those exercises, Foal Eagle, already took place in April.  Cancelling one of them as a gesture of good faith costs us absolutely nothing.  Now if Trump ended sanctions, or gave economic aid, that would be a much more substantive act.

Also, that's not the kind of decision that is irreversible.  And it actually gives Trump another weapon to use.  If NK drags its feet over the next month or so, he can just announce that they are back on.

You’re exactly right. President Trump is smart doing this. Take something Kim hates, military forces off his coast, take that off the table but hold it in reserve. Trump is building up leverage to pressure Kim from a position of strength when negotiations open up.

I wonder if we’ll hear from failed foreign policy experts from failed prior administrations telling us this just isn’t done!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 13, 2018, 02:47:19 pm
You forgot to mention how it even made Xerxes, from the film 300, weep like a baby.

 :rolling:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 02:53:57 pm


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/ov2c6J6QKK.ZwyN_biZ3eQ--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD00MDA7dz03MTE-/https://1v1d1e1lmiki1lgcvx32p49h8fe-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/1528779277-dennis-rodman-cry-pm.jpg.cf.jpg)


You forgot to mention how it even made Xerxes, from the film 300, weep like a baby.

Big whoop.  I also didn't mention how it's got NT knickers in a twist.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 02:58:04 pm
Big whoop.  I also didn't mention how it's got NT knickers in a twist.


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/jE3oUO9BWWt.3OoaBurKyA--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD02NDI7dz00MDA-/http://www3.pictures.gi.stylebistro.com/Dennis+Rodman+Body+Piercings+Belly+Piercing+Djp5Q3u01IWx.jpg.cf.jpg)


Tell me who’s really wearing twisted knickers.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 02:58:39 pm
You might feel better @INVAR if you listened to the President. 

I get physically nauseous listening to him, same as I did Obama.

I'll read whatever it is he has to say, which often changes every single time he mentions a subject.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 13, 2018, 03:02:26 pm
Excellent point. The real measure of Trump successfully getting Kim to meet face to face is what happens now that the respective leaders are back home.

I want this to be a success. But it's very premature to claim all the accolades for Trump people are trying to head on him before anything substantial has been agreed on.

That's my only issue with the "summit" at this point.

Agree 110%
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 03:05:09 pm
@RoosGirl
Guess you don't like being poked any more than I do.  hmmmm

@driftdiver
Who poked you? I was talking about Trump and then you called me stuid. If you disagree with me, fine, but why call me stupid?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 03:05:40 pm
I'll read whatever it is he has to say, which often changes every single time he mentions a subject.


That’s a fact.  Just within the past two weeks....

The summit is on.  The summit is off.  Here’s my letter canceling the summit.  I never canceled the summit.  Kim sent me a very interesting letter.  I haven’t read it yet.  Things will go well.  There’s a very good chance they won’t go well.  I trust Kim.  I might tell you in six months that was a mistake.

Wild stuff.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 13, 2018, 03:09:35 pm
@driftdiver
Who poked you? I was talking about Trump and then you called me stuid. If you disagree with me, fine, but why call me stupid?

What's stuid?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 13, 2018, 03:10:30 pm
What's stuid?

That would be a stud with an extra eye
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 03:11:25 pm

That’s a fact.  Just within the past two weeks....

The summit is on.  The summit is off.  Here’s my letter canceling the summit.  I never canceled the summit.  Kim sent me a very interesting letter.  I haven’t read it yet.  Things will go well.  There’s a very good chance they won’t go well.  I trust Kim.  I might tell you in six months that was a mistake.

Wild stuff.

Exactly. 

What is more amazing watching the Union of Clapping Seals having excused and justified each and every single one of those 'positions' when they were tweeted and stated.

Now it's Nobel Peace Prize time and demands we all cheer and be 'proud'.

Which is really stunning because during Obama, these same peoples were demanding substance instead of style and soundbites.  Had this been Obama - I doubt highly we would see all the justifications and explanations about why this photo op was such a dazzling success, they would have rightly said they would wait until there was concrete evidence and proof we achieved anything besides propaganda to assuage Obama's ego.

But, it's their guy in the office now - so none of that matters.  What he says and does is Nobel.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 03:13:13 pm
What's stuid?

covfefe

I'm on my phone.... yes, again. Still.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Victoria33 on June 13, 2018, 03:16:28 pm
The "process" was started when Pompeo got the DPRK to agree to the meeting.  What we saw yesterday was a photo op that we're now being told to believe was some kind of meaningful summit. It wasn't.  Other than that it was a big nothing burger.
@txradioguy

To get the thread off topic again so Sea can complain, what exactly is a "nothing burger"?
Of what is it made?  Is your nothing burger the same as other's nothing burgers?  If you are going to designate something as a nothing burger on this thread, we should know what it is, which makes it on topic.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 13, 2018, 03:18:47 pm
covfefe

I'm on my phone.... yes, again. Still.

Much better answer!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 13, 2018, 03:20:30 pm
covfefe

I'm on my phone.... yes, again. Still.

Awesome. I love Covfefe.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 03:20:57 pm
What's stuid?


A suit that’s suede and tweed?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 03:21:00 pm

(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/jE3oUO9BWWt.3OoaBurKyA--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD02NDI7dz00MDA-/http://www3.pictures.gi.stylebistro.com/Dennis+Rodman+Body+Piercings+Belly+Piercing+Djp5Q3u01IWx.jpg.cf.jpg)


Tell me who’s really wearing twisted knickers.

@edpc
Im not surprised you have his picture ready to pull up.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: XenaLee on June 13, 2018, 03:25:40 pm
Awesome. I love Covfefe.

You can't have it.  I already claimed it as my 'go to' anonymous enigmatic internet nic.   People don't know (for sure) if you are pro-Trump or anti-Trump.... so they walk on eggshells around you.  Love it!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Victoria33 on June 13, 2018, 03:26:49 pm
I get physically nauseous listening to him, same as I did Obama.  I'll read whatever it is he has to say, which often changes every single time he mentions a subject.
@INVAR

I also get nauseous when he speaks, in fact, can't stand to see him - every, single, day.  I switch channel and then read what he said until he changes it the next time.  What you wrote is exactly what I do and what I did with Obama, too.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 03:28:17 pm

A suit that’s suede and tweed?

DO you have ANY IDEA how hard it is to soak coffee up from between the keys on the keyboard?

LOL!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Frank Cannon on June 13, 2018, 03:29:21 pm
You can't have it.  I already claimed it as my 'go to' anonymous enigmatic internet nic.   People don't know (for sure) if you are pro-Trump or anti-Trump.... so they walk on eggshells around you.  Love it!

Oh. I misunderstood. I thought that Covfefe was the name of my favorite General Foods International Coffee....

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2a/d1/2b/2ad12ba50b5501abab5dc83e6db9eeea.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 03:31:12 pm

A suit that’s suede and tweed?

LOL. That's genius.  I will look for it at the next Fashion Week.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 13, 2018, 03:41:19 pm
LOL. That's genius.  I will look for it at the next Fashion Week.

Good for you.  Rodman is going to be showcasing the latest stuid sets from the runway at Alexander McQueen's latest exhibition next weekend in Prague.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 03:43:12 pm
LOL. That's genius.  I will look for it at the next Fashion Week.


(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/dYjUME08X2T8jj8oJD1X1A--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD01Mjg7dz00MDA-/https://cdna.lystit.com/photos/85dc-2015/09/23/calvin-klein-taupe-white-label-faux-suede-zip-suit-jacket-brown-product-0-224133874-normal.jpeg.cf.jpg)(https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/Ibcg9qdXCEX.F9dT7sONgA--~B/YXBwaWQ9eWlzZWFyY2g7Zmk9Zml0O2dlPTAwNjYwMDtncz0wMEEzMDA7aD02MDA7dz00MDA-/https://www.mccloys.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/b/i/birch-meadow.jpg.cf.jpg)



They’re likely sold separately.  However, as a Russian lady once told me while shopping in Owings Mills, MD for shirts and ties, “You buy dees and you buy dat.  Maybe you can max and mitch?”
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 13, 2018, 03:53:39 pm




They’re likely sold separately.  However, as a Russian lady once told me while shopping in Owings Mills, MD for shirts and ties, “You buy dees and you buy dat.  Maybe you can max and mitch?”

Max and Mitch, huh? She thought you were a friend of Dorothy?

Foreigners are so much fun. I interned at an engjneering firm and did a site visit that was along the Intracoastal Waterway.  The engineer I was with was, I dunno, Pakistani maybe, kept calling it the "Intercourse Waterway"  Too fun to bother correcting.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: guitar4jesus on June 13, 2018, 04:12:46 pm
I get physically nauseous listening to him, same as I did Obama.


Yeah, kinda like this....

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AngelicBouncyAgouti-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 04:17:18 pm
Foreigners are so much fun. I interned at an engjneering firm and did a site visit that was along the Intracoastal Waterway.  The engineer I was with was, I dunno, Pakistani maybe, kept calling it the "Intercourse Waterway"  Too fun to bother correcting.


It’s always funny introducing them to idioms.  Maybe he was just lost.  You should have sent him north to PA, where Intercourse, Bird-In-Hand, and Blueball are near each other.


(https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP._TFO1P1rjWxrD4mxxt92sAHaEd&pid=15.1)


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 05:00:06 pm
@txradioguy

To get the thread off topic again so Sea can complain, what exactly is a "nothing burger"?
Of what is it made?  Is your nothing burger the same as other's nothing burgers?  If you are going to designate something as a nothing burger on this thread, we should know what it is, which makes it on topic.

@Victoria33 my apologies.  My "nothing burger" to use the popular vernacular has to do with the substance of the meeting between Kim and Trump.  While I give Trump kudos for getting the little despot to meet face to face...nothing substantive came from it...despite fawning reports otherwise on Conservative news outlets.  It was a handshake and two concessions from the U.S. that are propaganda wins for the DPRK and nothing more.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 13, 2018, 05:15:14 pm
@txradioguy

Sometimes, from little acorns might Oaks grow. 

I really don't know where this is going, but I, for one, did not expect there to be an Earth-shattering "Kaboom" in Singapore.  And so what if Lil' Kim got a "propaganda victory?"  It's this trying to deny the Norks one at every turn that has gotten us to the point where things have become fossilized.  Let him have it, a "propaganda victory" is nothing more than a promise of an action.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 05:23:22 pm
I really don't know where this is going, but I, for one, did not expect there to be an Earth-shattering "Kaboom" in Singapore.


That's because NK put a temporary stop to their 'splodin cannons.


“They have great beaches! You see that whenever they're exploding the cannons into the ocean, right?” Trump said after playing the four-minute video for the press.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2018/06/12/heres-the-video-trump-showed-kim-about-what-north-korea-postnuclear-future-would-look-like-n2489821 (https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2018/06/12/heres-the-video-trump-showed-kim-about-what-north-korea-postnuclear-future-would-look-like-n2489821)


Also, Pompeo has now given the timeline for disarmament 2 - 2.5 years.

Pompeo was in Seoul on Wednesday to brief South Korean officials on the summit. Speaking to a small group of reporters and asked if he would like to accomplish major nuclear disarmament within Trump’s current term, which ends on Jan. 20, 2021, Pompeo replied:

“Oh yes, most definitively. Absolutely ... you used the term major, major disarmament, something like that? We’re hopeful that we can achieve that in the 2-1/2 years.”


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-pompeo/u-s-aims-for-major-north-korea-disarmament-in-two-and-a-half-years-pompeo-idUSKBN1J9271 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-pompeo/u-s-aims-for-major-north-korea-disarmament-in-two-and-a-half-years-pompeo-idUSKBN1J9271)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: musiclady on June 13, 2018, 05:51:13 pm

It’s always funny introducing them to idioms.  Maybe he was just lost.  You should have sent him north to PA, where Intercourse, Bird-In-Hand, and Blueball are near each other.


(https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=OIP._TFO1P1rjWxrD4mxxt92sAHaEd&pid=15.1)

At least they're all close to Paradise.  ^-^
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 13, 2018, 07:06:13 pm
Max and Mitch, huh? She thought you were a friend of Dorothy?

Foreigners are so much fun. I interned at an engjneering firm and did a site visit that was along the Intracoastal Waterway.  The engineer I was with was, I dunno, Pakistani maybe, kept calling it the "Intercourse Waterway"  Too fun to bother correcting.

Had a Romanian colleague who didn't know what was wrong when he was writing about the dykes that were holding back the water.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 09:50:01 pm
@CatherineofAragon

Not so much since this Kim took over.  His father and grandfather would certainly do that.  Mostly people with special skills or pretty girls.   They would send people into the schools to find girls.  No choice of course for the girl.

I know of one American who was kidnapped to work as an English teacher.  He was given a wife when he arrived.  They would also target actors singers and other talent to entertain him.

The young Kim probably doesn't like living there.  He was educated in Switzerland so he knows what 1st world is.

@driftdiver

So the American guy escaped?

Kim's gonna freak when he comes to Washington.  Too bad they can't take him on a few side trips...Las Vegas, maybe.  Or New York City.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 09:51:31 pm
When I was there I had three people try to pull me out the back door of a coffee shop.  When I started fighting back it was noticed by other people and the three ran.  They knew my name where I worked and what I did.

@driftdiver

Wait, you were almost kidnapped by the North Koreans?  Omg!!
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 10:05:40 pm
@driftdiver

So the American guy escaped?

Kim's gonna freak when he comes to Washington.  Too bad they can't take him on a few side trips...Las Vegas, maybe.  Or New York City.

@CatherineofAragon

I dont think he ever got out.  Very few do.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2018, 10:25:12 pm
Fox News reporting that Trump is willing to overlook Kim's human rights abuses in the quest for denuclearization.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Silver Pines on June 13, 2018, 10:28:13 pm
@CatherineofAragon

I dont think he ever got out.  Very few do.

@driftdiver

Horrible. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 10:33:22 pm
Fox News reporting that Trump is willing to overlook Kim's human rights abuses in the quest for denuclearization.

No surprise. It's an ugly situation all the way around
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Sanguine on June 13, 2018, 10:50:41 pm
Fox News reporting that Trump is willing to overlook Kim's human rights abuses in the quest for denuclearization.

I guess living a nuclear bomb  could be considered somewhatworsee.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 11:19:30 pm
I guess living a nuclear bomb  could be considered somewhatworsee.

A few tens of millions dead might be worse
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 13, 2018, 11:22:37 pm
Fox News reporting that Trump is willing to overlook Kim's human rights abuses in the quest for denuclearization.

The other option is to walk away from the possibility of a denuclearized Korean peninsula because Kim's a really bad guy. 

Show of hands, who wants to walk away?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 11:37:27 pm
The other option is to walk away from the possibility of a denuclearized Korean peninsula because Kim's a really bad guy. 

Show of hands, who wants to walk away?


In the end, our hands will not matter. However, if the president wants to openly state he’s willing to sacrifice people in those generational prison camps, best of luck getting 67 votes in the Senate for a treaty.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 11:48:13 pm

In the end, our hands will not matter. However, if the president wants to openly state he’s willing to sacrifice people in those generational prison camps, best of luck getting 67 votes in the Senate for a treaty.

Its easy to throw stones.  Some terrible stuff has been and is being done to people.  As bad as anything the nazis or japanese did.

We ended up hiring German scientists and ignoring the japanese crimes.

It's a shame, criminal even but what are the alternatives.   What path from here to peace includes the punishment of those responsible?  If we dont pursue peace then are we willing to allow continued war and maybe nuclear?

The Chinese kill people and take their organs before they even die.  They use slave labor to make our Christmas lights and fireworks.  We ignore that so we can keep the supply of cheap crap coming.

There are no easy decisions here.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 13, 2018, 11:51:53 pm
Its easy to throw stones.


It’s not stone throwing, just a fact.  You would not get 2/3 of the Senate to support that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 13, 2018, 11:54:40 pm

It’s not stone throwing, just a fact.  You would not get 2/3 of the Senate to support that.

Possibly.  Maybe Chuckie has a better idea.  Depends on their willingness to push the red button
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 14, 2018, 12:02:20 am
Its easy to throw stones.  Some terrible stuff has been and is being done to people.  As bad as anything the nazis or japanese did.

We ended up hiring German scientists and ignoring the japanese crimes.

It's a shame, criminal even but what are the alternatives.   What path from here to peace includes the punishment of those responsible?  If we dont pursue peace then are we willing to allow continued war and maybe nuclear?

The Chinese kill people and take their organs before they even die.  They use slave labor to make our Christmas lights and fireworks.  We ignore that so we can keep the supply of cheap crap coming.

There are no easy decisions here.

Yes, it’s easy to throw stones when “trusted” leaders are starving their people, torturing US citizens, and publicly executing their own relatives.  Well, it should be easy to throw stones at that, but I’m afraid it’s not so easy for some.

I'm not sure who you think ignored Japanese war crimes.  The Tokyo trial featured only one chief prosecutor–American Joseph B. Keenan, a former assistant to the U.S. attorney general and several folks were executed as a result.  Also:

Quote
In addition to the central Tokyo trial, various tribunals sitting outside Japan judged some 5,000 Japanese guilty of war crimes, of whom more than 900 were executed.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/japanese-war-criminals-hanged-in-tokyo (https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/japanese-war-criminals-hanged-in-tokyo)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 12:06:57 am
Possibly.  Maybe Chuckie has a better idea.  Depends on their willingness to push the red button


There are enough Democratic senators where it’s already DOA.  There is no (pardon the pun) nuclear option for a binding treaty.  Without approval of the Senate, it just becomes an executive agreement.  Kim would lose his guarantees of safety, with a change of administration.  He probably wouldn’t agree.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 12:14:07 am

There are enough Democratic senators where it’s already DOA.  There is no (pardon the pun) nuclear option for a binding treaty.  Without approval of the Senate, it just becomes an executive agreement.  Kim would lose his guarantees of safety, with a change of administration.  He probably wouldn’t agree.

Since the Korean war was a UN resolution I'm not sure where a treaty really is required
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 12:14:13 am
The Soviet Union was part of the axis of evil, evil empire but Reagan toned it down when he started speaking to Gorbachev.

As said before, one can't let the perfect be the enemy of the possible.

Reunification and we will see some of these problems going away.

I would not rule out that there might be the votes in the Senate to work this deal out. Quite a few Senators have been supportive of this including Democrats.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 12:17:39 am
Perhaps we should remind the hand-wringers who lecture us about the fact there are 'no easy decisions here' and that we should accept any effort and deal with the Norks as better than any alternative , that this was a crisis of our own making.

The Norks having nukes and ICBM-capable missiles is the direct result of OUR OWN GOVERNMENT UNDER CLINTON for handing nuke tech and ballistic missile tech to the Chicom's for campaign contributions.  Anyone recall the 1996 Campaign and Loral Space?  Al Gore and a full bladder of tea?

In addition to the subsequent pusseeee-footing and appeasement subsequent administrations and regimes have provided to the Norks since it became known that they were on their way to nuke development and provision from their host state.

This Frankenstein is of our own making, having the Chicoms aiding a dried up old Communist corpse with bad hair DNA as a proxy.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 12:26:34 am
Perhaps we should remind the hand-wringers who lecture us about the fact there are 'no easy decisions here' and that we should accept any effort and deal with the Norks as better than any alternative , that this was a crisis of our own making.

The Norks having nukes and ICBM-capable missiles is the direct result of OUR OWN GOVERNMENT UNDER CLINTON for handing nuke tech and ballistic missile tech to the Chicom's for campaign contributions.  Anyone recall the 1996 Campaign and Loral Space?  Al Gore and a full bladder of tea?

In addition to the subsequent pusseeee-footing and appeasement subsequent administrations and regimes have provided to the Norks since it became known that they were on their way to nuke development and provision from their host state.

This Frankenstein is of our own making, having the Chicoms aiding a dried up old Communist corpse with bad hair DNA as a proxy.

@INVAR
You dont need to remind anyone here of that. We all know it and have said so.

The key question is now what do you do?  So are you gonna do anything besides whine and cry? 

Irrelevant doesn't accomplish anything
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 14, 2018, 12:31:05 am

In the end, our hands will not matter. However, if the president wants to openly state he’s willing to sacrifice people in those generational prison camps, best of luck getting 67 votes in the Senate for a treaty.

Where are you pulling this from ... thin air?  The President has been talking about this with Kim, returning the remains of our soldiers and the dead and alive Japanese in generational prison camps.

And, if you don't mind by bringing this up, President Trump is the only President who has opened this dialogue...and he's done it face to face with the perpetrator.

Try, try and see the positives all around you.  You don't even have to admit them here, just don't deprive yourself of at least seeing them. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 12:40:23 am
Since the Korean war was a UN resolution I'm not sure where a treaty really is required


Formally ending the Korean War and denuclearization are two separate issues.  Had they considered the UN route for this agreement, Nikki Haley would have been in Singapore, as well.  To date, all discussions about talks with North Korea have included consultation and future congressional approval, according to Pompeo.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 12:41:00 am
@INVAR
You dont need to remind anyone here of that. We all know it and have said so.

Really?  Where?  I do not find any recollection of that history in this discussion.

The key question is now what do you do?  So are you gonna do anything besides whine and cry? 

Irrelevant doesn't accomplish anything

Neither does mental masturbation pretending your cheerleading is accomplishing anything besides self-gratifying the hubris.

I'm laughing hysterically at reading nearly the same swooning over Trump as the greatest messenger of peace in our time as I did when Obama was heralded by his hordes over the Iran deal.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 12:46:05 am
Really?  Where?  I do not find any recollection of that history in this discussion.

Neither does mental masturbation pretending your cheerleading is accomplishing anything besides self-gratifying the hubris.

I'm laughing hysterically at reading nearly the same swooning over Trump as the greatest messenger of peace in our time as I did when Obama was heralded by his hordes over the Iran deal.

Yes we all know you would cheer if nukes went off over an American city.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 12:49:49 am
Where are you pulling this from ... thin air?



I’m pulling it from a modem, if you bother to do the tiniest bit of research.  Pompeo has already said any agreement would be brought to congress.  Plenty of senators, including the majority leader, have said it should be a treaty, but it’s up to the president.  As isolated as they are, the Norks still have an understanding of how agreements work in our system.  They saw how this president disagreed with the one his predecessor reached with Iran.  He’s not so naive to think the next guy might not like this agreement, if it’s on the executive level, and reimpose sanctions or threaten his regime.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 14, 2018, 12:51:33 am
Where are you pulling this from ... thin air?  The President has been talking about this with Kim, returning the remains of our soldiers and the dead and alive Japanese in generational prison camps.

And, if you don't mind by bringing this up, President Trump is the only President who has opened this dialogue...and he's done it face to face with the perpetrator.

Try, try and see the positives all around you.  You don't even have to admit them here, just don't deprive yourself of at least seeing them.

 888high58888

The refusal by so many to acknowledge Trump's achievement is pathetic.   What the hell did Obama, Clinton and both Bushes do to address human rights in NORK?    Of course this is only a first step, but among what's already been accomplished is the extension of good will that allows us to raise the issue of political prisoners, and invite a reciprocal gesture.

Demonizing the Kim regime hasn't freed a single political prisoner.   Treating the North Koreans as negotiating equals allows for the possibility of reciprocity,  a sound tactic whenever the true goal of a negotiation is the forging of a deal, rather than the scoring of political points.

We've spent over fifty years refusing to meet with the North Koreans in fear of according them "prestige".  Meanwhile they've become a self-fulfilling prophecy, playing to type with open hostility, duplicity and extreme militancy borne of anger at being treated as pariahs.   Our past tactics have gained us nothing,  and so many years of pussyfooting has let the NORKs finally gain the leverage they've sought - nukes and the means to deliver them to an American city.


What is notable is that both the NORKs and the Americans think they are negotiating from a position of strength.   That's a good thing, because it is conducive to productive, good faith bargaining.


I applaud the President for forging his own path and daring to approach diplomacy like a business negotiation.    I applaud the President for having the courage to step up and try to solve a crisis dropped in his lap because of decades of can-kicking and conventional thinking.     


 




Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 12:53:38 am
Yes we all know you would cheer if nukes went off over an American city.

   That was cold @driftdiver because Invar doesn't agree with you he automatically doesn't give a $hit if a US City is nuked? 

   I read the FDA Warning on that Orange Koolaid, I suggest you do too.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 14, 2018, 12:59:02 am
888high58888

The refusal y so many to acknowledge Trump's achievement is pathetic.   What the hell did Obama, Clinton and both Bushes do to address human rights in NORK?    Of course this is only a first step, but among what's already been accomplished is the extension of good will that allows us to raise the issue of political prisoners, and invite a reciprocal gesture.

Demonizing the Kim regime hasn't freed a single political prisoner.   Treating the North Koreans as negotiating equals allows for the possibility of reciprocity,  a sound tactic whenever the true goal of a negotiation is the forging of a deal, rather than the scoring of political points.

We've spent over fifty years refusing to meet with the North Koreans in fear of according them "prestige".  Meanwhile they've become a self-fulfilling prophecy, playing to type with open hostility, duplicity and extreme militancy borne of anger at being treated as pariahs.   Our past tactics have gained us nothing,  and so many years of pussyfooting has let the NORKs finally gain the leverage they've sought - nukes and the means to deliver them to an American city.


What is notable is that both the NORKs and the Americans think they are negotiating from a position of strength.   That's a good thing, because it is conducive to productive, good faith bargaining.


I applaud the President for forging his own path and daring to approach diplomacy like a business negotiation.    I applaud the President for having the courage to step up and try to solve a crisis dropped in his lap because of decades of can-kicking and conventional thinking.     


@Jazzhead

I applaud the President for taking a different approach than has been done over the past 30 years.  What we’ve tried previously hasn’t worked so trying something markedly different makes complete sense to me.  The issue I have is with the declaration of Trump having achieved an “accomplishment” with North Korea just yet.  He hasn’t.......yet.

Pompeo says the goal is “irreversible and verifiable denuclearization”.  We haven’t achieved that.  Maybe we will.  Maybe we won’t.  My money is on that we won’t, but I’m hoping for the best, but to declare that Trump has achieved something like "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea” is just delusional or a lie or both IMO.


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 01:02:33 am
Yes we all know you would cheer if nukes went off over an American city.

That says everything anyone needs to know about the mindset of a lunatic ForeverTrump® right there.

Just like your garden variety liberal imbeciles we can see that style over substance; intentions over results; and emotions over facts are no longer just the province of the liberal Left.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 01:03:38 am
   I read Stormys account of her first meeting with President Trump, that time he got lucky, this time the Jury's still out.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 14, 2018, 01:08:27 am
@Jazzhead

I applaud the President for taking a different approach than has been done over the past 30 years.  What we’ve tried previously hasn’t worked so trying something markedly different makes complete sense to me.  The issue I have is with the declaration of Trump having achieved an “accomplishment” with North Korea just yet.  He hasn’t.......yet.

Pompeo says the goal is “irreversible and verifiable denuclearization”.  We haven’t achieved that.  Maybe we will.  Maybe we won’t.  My money is on that we won’t, but I’m hoping for the best, but to declare that Trump has achieved something like "There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea” is just delusional or a lie or both IMO.

@Concerned

This is just the first inning of the game.  I'm more optimistic than you are about the ultimate outcome, but I understand your skepticism.   The NORKs have a reputation for duplicity, to put it mildly.   As for Trump's tweets,  they don't bother me; let him have his Trumpian moment.  With this President,  we get the pace, schtick and bluster of a reality show.  I've never liked it,  but I accept it and tune it out.  What I care about is the context appears to have been established for a true negotiation to take place, between parties that both have much to gain or lose.   

 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 01:15:03 am
   That was cold @driftdiver because Invar doesn't agree with you he automatically doesn't give a $hit if a US City is nuked? 

   I read the FDA Warning on that Orange Koolaid, I suggest you do too.

@corbe

It's not because he disagrees with me.  Its because he cheers everytime something bad happens.  It's like hes hoping the world burns just so he can say I told you so.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 01:15:32 am
Pompeo says the goal is “irreversible and verifiable denuclearization”.  We haven’t achieved that.


He also said it would hopefully occur over the next 2 - 2 1/2 years. Given the opportunity for that timeframe, the North Koreans will do the minimum and slow walk it. A lot can happen in the interim.

Pompeo, speaking to reporters in Seoul on Wednesday, sought to quell criticism that North Korea didn’t make any major commitments at the summit in Singapore.

“We’re hopeful that we can achieve that in, what was it, the next two and half years,” the top American diplomat said when asked how soon the U.S. wanted to see North Korea move to dismantle its nuclear weapons program. “We’re hopeful we can get it done. There’s a lot of work left to do.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-13/pompeo-sees-north-korean-denuclearization-in-trump-s-first-term (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-13/pompeo-sees-north-korean-denuclearization-in-trump-s-first-term)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 01:16:37 am
A few tens of millions dead might be worse

Yeah I mean what's a few more million added to the millions already killed by this regime right?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 01:16:54 am
Paul Thorn "You Might Be Wrong"

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFRM4oJwLdc#)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 01:18:45 am
Yeah I mean what's a few more million added to the millions already killed by this regime right?

@txradioguy

I guess that's the way some would look at it.  Personally I'd prefer not.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 01:20:25 am
It’s a glass half full.

Of blood.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 14, 2018, 01:29:13 am
@corbe

It's not because he disagrees with me.  Its because he cheers everytime something bad happens.  It's like hes hoping the world burns just so he can say I told you so.

INVAR's one of most bitter, angry and cynical men I've ever encountered on the internet.  He says he's a follower of Christ,  but his faith doesn't seem to have brought him a bit of empathy or joy. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 14, 2018, 01:31:25 am
@Concerned

This is just the first inning of the game.  I'm more optimistic than you are about the ultimate outcome, but I understand your skepticism.   The NORKs have a reputation for duplicity, to put it mildly.   As for Trump's tweets,  they don't bother me; let him have his Trumpian moment.  With this President,  we get the pace, schtick and bluster of a reality show.  I've never liked it,  but I accept it and tune it out.  What I care about is the context appears to have been established for a true negotiation to take place, between parties that both have much to gain or lose.

I agree it's the first inning of the game.  I don't pop the champagne in the first inning, and I don't think Trump supporters should also by talking about "achievement" in the first inning.  Look, if we get "irreversible and verifiable denuclearization", let's celebrate that "achievement", but until then the celebrations are premature IMO. 

As for the tweets, the White House says they are "official statements".  Sure, anyone is welcome to ignore those if they so choose, but I think it's a shame so many folks (and I know several) who choose to ignore official statements from the Commander in Chief because of his lies, the "schtick and bluster" (as you put), and the overall childishness. 
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 01:37:37 am
It's not because he disagrees with me.  Its because he cheers everytime something bad happens.  It's like hes hoping the world burns just so he can say I told you so.

Care to share with the board the link with my quote that cheers when something 'bad' happens?  You know, like a mass shooting or a nuked city or a garden-variety mortar attack on civvies?

Or like the Leftards out there who cannot handle anyone who disagrees with their views on anything, you assign motives to a person without being able to comprehend a thing they are actually motivated by.

You're like an imbecilic  teenager who  accuses his parents of wanting him to fail because they are yanking their college support after they warned him to stop partying and knuckle down because he is going to flunk out of college.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 01:42:34 am
INVAR's one of most bitter, angry and cynical men I've ever encountered on the internet.  He says he's a follower of Christ,  but his faith doesn't seem to have brought him a bit of empathy or joy.

That's because you have zero clue of who I am or what I do in the meat world beyond what I have revealed here. 

I do not place joy in the institutions of men or their politics and government as you do.  My joy is elsewhere - and it is not discussed here for myriad reasons.

That said, as has been discussed in the past - your view of what constitutes a Christian and my understanding of what makes a disciple of Yeshua, are as far apart as night and day.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 01:44:36 am
I agree it's the first inning of the game.  I don't pop the champagne in the first inning, and I don't think Trump supporters should also by talking about "achievement" in the first inning.  Look, if we get "irreversible and verifiable denuclearization", let's celebrate that "achievement", but until then the celebrations are premature IMO.

That used to be considered wisdom once upon a time.

Not any more apparently.

However, analyzing the mindset of the zeitgeist has been a revelation.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 01:45:00 am
   
INVAR's one of most bitter, angry and cynical men I've ever encountered on the internet.  He says he's a follower of Christ,  but his faith doesn't seem to have brought him a bit of empathy or joy. 

    Again @Jazzhead you are entitled to your opinion but to openly express such disdain for a fellow Briefer is pretty shitty, in my book. 
    @INVAR, who I understand and appreciate, is stronger than all of yalls attacks. even simultaneously. 
    You few here are punching way out of your class.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 01:47:07 am
   
    Again @Jazzhead you are entitled to your opinion but to openly express such disdain for a fellow Briefer is pretty shitty, in my book. 
    @INVAR, who I understand and appreciate, is stronger than all of yalls attacks. even simultaneously. 
    You few here are punching way out of your class.

@corbe

And yet you stay silent when he issues personal attacks all the time.

You picked your friends.  Enjoy
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 01:52:49 am
@corbe

And yet you stay silent when he issues personal attacks all the time.

You picked your friends.  Enjoy


  I do Enjoy @driftdiver my gratitude is always above my expectations for each day.
  I consider you a Friend here also.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 01:56:56 am
@corbe

And yet you stay silent when he issues personal attacks all the time.

You picked your friends.  Enjoy

Bitter isn't a good look on you.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 01:58:13 am
Bitter isn't a good look on you.

@txradioguy

But you look great with panties on your head
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 14, 2018, 01:59:17 am
Pompeo, speaking to reporters in Seoul on Wednesday, sought to quell criticism that North Korea didn’t make any major commitments at the summit in Singapore.

“We’re hopeful that we can achieve ...

Well, with $5 bucks and that, they can go to Starbucks!

(https://i.imgur.com/6Ui1Cwn.png)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 02:02:33 am
@corbe

And yet you stay silent when he issues personal attacks all the time.

You picked your friends.  Enjoy

TRG seems to have a pattern of going after persons, maybe not all, who support the President. It's pretty clear, that's the MO.  It appears that way in dealing with DCPatriot and I'll leave it at that though I could name others. This does appear to be in a pattern. If you are not supportive of the President, no problem. Just observe. I think it will be clear.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 02:05:11 am
@txradioguy

But you look great with panties on your head

  (http://publicrelationsmatters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Reagan-Mondale-debate-There-you-go-again-again.gif)

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 14, 2018, 02:07:44 am
   
    Again @Jazzhead you are entitled to your opinion but to openly express such disdain for a fellow Briefer is pretty shitty, in my book. 
    @INVAR, who I understand and appreciate, is stronger than all of yalls attacks. even simultaneously. 
    You few here are punching way out of your class.

Judging by the constant hostility he projects, he can't possibly be a happy man.   Which is a shame because faith in Christ should allow him to let the anger go.

But I suspect INVAR is all kayfabe.   It's odd work though - the character of a follower of Christ drunk on cynicism and violence.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 14, 2018, 02:09:37 am
Seems to me this thread is at risk of being locked now.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 02:10:00 am
If you are not supportive of the President, no problem.


Somewhere, Cripplecreek is laughing.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 02:11:07 am
Quote
Defector: Trump 'Stabbed the Heart' of North Koreans at Summit
SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA —

Some North Korea defectors are feeling betrayed by U.S. President Donald Trump for his praise of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un during their meeting in Singapore, rather than confronting him about widespread human rights violations committed by the repressive government in Pyongyang.

At the U.S.-North Korea summit in Singapore on Tuesday President Trump called the North Korean leader a “terrific person” and “a great leader,” and that he cares greatly about the welfare of his people.

“He loves his people, not that I’m surprised by that, but he loves his people,” said Trump during an interview in Singapore with VOA contributor Greta Van Susteren.

Read more at: https://www.voanews.com/a/defector-trump-stabbed-the-heart-of-north-koreans-at-summit/4436852.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/defector-trump-stabbed-the-heart-of-north-koreans-at-summit/4436852.html)

It's sad, it's a legitimate gripe whether I agree or not, given the complexities.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 02:13:46 am
(http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/i_like_were_this_thread_is_going_7172.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 02:20:38 am
Judging by the constant hostility he projects, he can't possibly be a happy man.   

Well I'm all aflutter Jazzy at your feigned concern for my spiritual well-being and my countenance in life. 

Suffice it to say that if you had actually ever read scripture - you would be making the same charges against God Himself notwithstanding what Isaiah prophesied about Messiah.

But I suspect INVAR is all kayfabe. 

No, you're looking at the wrong person in that circus pal.

(https://static.politico.com/dims4/default/2ee0b3b/2147483647/resize/1160x%3E/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2Fcb%2F39%2F11697e3c436fbaddd3e063f70ca4%2Ftrump-austin-mcmahon-lashley-1-gty-1160.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 14, 2018, 02:45:23 am
TRG seems to have a pattern of going after persons, maybe not all, who support the President. It's pretty clear, that's the MO.  It appears that way in dealing with DCPatriot and I'll leave it at that though I could name others. This does appear to be in a pattern. If you are not supportive of the President, no problem. Just observe. I think it will be clear.

Yeah...I'm flattered to have a stalker.

I live in that head rent-free.   You should hear the echo.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Oceander on June 14, 2018, 02:47:26 am
Yeah...I'm flattered to have a stalker.

I live in that head rent-free.   You should hear the echo.

/snicker
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Mod5 on June 14, 2018, 02:52:40 am
I think it's time to get back on the topic of the thread, USA v No Ko Summit, and leave off on the discussion of individual members.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 03:20:38 am
Ironic that Trump in 2013 tweeted that bragging about an incomplete deal is a sign of weakness.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 03:26:43 am
Ironic that Trump in 2013 tweeted that bragging about an incomplete deal is a sign of weakness.


https://hotair.com/archives/2018/06/13/trump-2013-great-dealmakers-dont-openly-celebrate-deal-especially-not-complete/
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 14, 2018, 03:29:37 am

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/06/13/trump-2013-great-dealmakers-dont-openly-celebrate-deal-especially-not-complete/
Ironic that Trump in 2013 tweeted that bragging about an incomplete deal is a sign of weakness.

Goodness, that is an inconvenient truth.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 03:33:00 am
Ironic that Trump in 2013 tweeted that bragging about an incomplete deal is a sign of weakness.

Shhhhhhhhhh!

(https://ccbratislava.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/shh-finger-to-lips-secret-rumor.jpg)

Whassa matter with you?????


Dontcha know that mentioning something Trump said back then that he did now, is stupidity that rises to the level of treason dude?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 03:33:15 am

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/06/13/trump-2013-great-dealmakers-dont-openly-celebrate-deal-especially-not-complete/

Yup that's the one. Nothing like trolling yourself.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DB on June 14, 2018, 03:37:19 am
@corbe

And yet you stay silent when he issues personal attacks all the time.

You picked your friends.  Enjoy

Count me as a friend of Invar's too.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DB on June 14, 2018, 03:43:28 am
Yup that's the one. Nothing like trolling yourself.

The hypocrisy is in your face practically daily... But it is their guy rationalized as 42 dimensional chess... The Emperor has no clothes is more than a fable...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 03:46:12 am
Goodness, that is an inconvenient truth.

Yup that's the one. Nothing like trolling yourself.


This was a great line from the piece......

I want to dump this tweet onto a mirror, divide it into lines, and snort it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 03:56:49 am
Ironic that Trump in 2013 tweeted that bragging about an incomplete deal is a sign of weakness.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnconsciousRepulsiveGnat-size_restricted.gif)

"It's Ironic.  He Tweeted that bragging about an incomplete deal was a sign of weakness, but he exempted himself."

(https://swordattheready.files.wordpress.com/2018/06/dealmakers.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: corbe on June 14, 2018, 04:12:40 am
   In light of even your Faith being questioned tonight @INVAR this is where that came from, another old tweet:

Quote
"How can Ted Cruz be a Evangelical Christian when he lies so much and is so dishonest"  DJT
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 04:24:02 am
   In light of even your Faith being questioned tonight @INVAR this is where that came from, another old tweet:

A case of monkey-see, monkey-do?

Mobs in mass movements tend to emulate the characteristics, mannerisms and behaviors of their chosen leaders.

You know, the things we were warning about that have been said to be raw and unfounded paranoia.

But in all fairness, Jazzy was not speaking on their behalf outside of an alliance of disdain and contempt for that which they loathe from me.

Badges of honor of course, which I delight in receiving.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 10:42:52 am
Human rights? Can anyone say the Philippines and their leader? It's a tough road to hoe and it is all a legitimate concern. The poor people and then, in turn, you think, first things first.

Quote
Pompeo: No Sanctions Relief for North Korea Before Complete Denuclearization

SEOUL, SOUTH KOREA —

U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo Thursday pushed back against a North Korean state media report that U.S. President Donald Trump agreed during this week’s Singapore summit with Kim Jong Un to gradually lift sanctions against Pyongyang, saying Trump had been very clear about the sequence of steps in the process.

The official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) said Trump offered to lift sanctions against it as relations improve, indicating a phased-in approach where concessions would be provided at various stages of the denuclearization process.

Speaking at a news conference in Seoul alongside South Korean Foreign Minister Kang Kyung-hwa and Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Kono, the U.S. secretary of state said the Trump administration would not repeat the mistakes made by past presidents that rewarded Pyongyang for denuclearization promises.


Read more at: https://www.voanews.com/a/pompeo-no-sanctions-relief-before-denuclearization/4438371.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/pompeo-no-sanctions-relief-before-denuclearization/4438371.html)

Lots of fake news around.

That a month ago, increased levels of radiation were already reported because that one mountain nuclear facility crashed, is one indication of dangers involved.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 10:48:54 am
Quote
Japan eyes Kim-Abe summit but abductees' families urge caution
Yoshifumi Takemoto, Elaine Lies

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan is eyeing a meeting between Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, government sources said on Thursday, while the foreign minister said a summit would have to bring results on the issue of Japanese abducted by Pyongyang.
Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (R) meets family members of victims abducted to North Korea at the Prime Minister's official residence in Tokyo, Japan, June 14, 2018. Kazuhiro Nogi/Pool via Reuters

Abe, his public support hit by scandals, has adopted as his top domestic priority the issue of Japanese abducted to be trained as spies, vowing to withhold economic assistance until it is resolved, along with denuclearization.


Continued at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-japan-summit/japan-eying-abe-kim-summit-with-possible-pyongyang-visit-paper-idUSKBN1JA026 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-usa-japan-summit/japan-eying-abe-kim-summit-with-possible-pyongyang-visit-paper-idUSKBN1JA026)

More on the "abducted" Japanese in article.

Nice little banner from: https://asiancorrespondent.com/topic/trump-kim-summit/ (https://asiancorrespondent.com/topic/trump-kim-summit/)  (Asian Correspondent)
(https://cdn.asiancorrespondent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/1880x600.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 14, 2018, 01:27:21 pm
I don't understand what anyone believes would have been accomplished by bringing up human rights to Kim, other than virtue signalling.

We're trying to convince the guy we're no threat to his regime if he gives up nukes.  So how does sending a message that he better fix his human rights record or else further that goal?

Trump is kissing Kim's keister with false flattery.  That's because he knows that words are cheap, cost nothing, and if you can get what you want by doing it, you do it ten times out of ten.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 01:48:24 pm
More on the "abducted" Japanese in article.

Nice little banner from: https://asiancorrespondent.com/topic/trump-kim-summit/ (https://asiancorrespondent.com/topic/trump-kim-summit/)  (Asian Correspondent)
(https://cdn.asiancorrespondent.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/1880x600.jpg)

@TomSea
Japan should approach this with caution.  Considering Japan abducted Korean girls before and during WWII and used them as sex slaves.   Some of those women are still alive and would be happy to speak about it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 01:49:15 pm
  (http://publicrelationsmatters.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Reagan-Mondale-debate-There-you-go-again-again.gif)

@corbe
YOu can put me on ignore if you don't like it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 01:54:50 pm
I don't understand what anyone believes would have been accomplished by bringing up human rights to Kim, other than virtue signalling.

We're trying to convince the guy we're no threat to his regime if he gives up nukes.  So how does sending a message that he better fix his human rights record or else further than goal?

Trump is kissing Kim's keister with false flattery.  That's because he knows that words are cheap, cost nothing, and if you can get what you want by doing it, you do it ten times out of ten.   

@Maj. Bill Martin  No matter what happened the same people were still going to find fault.   Foxnews was saying this morning that many who oppose Trump were hoping the summit would be a complete failure.  Instead when it seemed to accomplish what was intended they had to find fault in other areas.  I don't understand why they are so invested but it certainly seems to be an emotional position and not based on policies.

I pray for peace and an end to the Korean war and suffering there.  It won't happen overnight but even slow progress is a great alternative to NK working on nukes with ISIS and Iran.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 14, 2018, 02:03:55 pm
@Maj. Bill Martin  No matter what happened the same people were still going to find fault.   Foxnews was saying this morning that many who oppose Trump were hoping the summit would be a complete failure.  Instead when it seemed to accomplish what was intended they had to find fault in other areas.  I don't understand why they are so invested but it certainly seems to be an emotional position and not based on policies.

I pray for peace and an end to the Korean war and suffering there.  It won't happen overnight but even slow progress is a great alternative to NK working on nukes with ISIS and Iran.

I honestly think the biggest problem here is that too many of these people don't know what happens in real negotiations, in the real world.  They're too used to measuring these things by "optics", so they clutch their pearls when Trump flatters Kim.  What they don't understand is that those words cost nothing, and that sometimes, the guy on the other side of the table needs some sort of emotional validation or flattery before he'll move.  So, you give it a shot.  If it works, great.  If it doesn't...you go back to being an a-hole.

People are acting like Trump actually gave Kim something that matters.  He didn't.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 14, 2018, 02:04:07 pm
I don't understand what anyone believes would have been accomplished by bringing up human rights to Kim, other than virtue signalling.

We're trying to convince the guy we're no threat to his regime if he gives up nukes.  So how does sending a message that he better fix his human rights record or else further that goal?

Trump is kissing Kim's keister with false flattery.  That's because he knows that words are cheap, cost nothing, and if you can get what you want by doing it, you do it ten times out of ten.   

If the President doesn’t want to raise human rights during these negotiations, that’s his prerogative.  What I’m not fine with is the President of the United States saying things he knows are false (“false flattery”) in an attempt to get what he wants.  I think it just further degrades Trump’s credibility to publicly say that Kim loves his people when he’s starving them, torturing US citizens, publicly executing his own relatives, and holding 100+K people in political prison camps. 

Words may be cheap but the constant lying, misdirections, and false statements do cost something:  the credibility of the President of the United States.  I want to believe what my President says, but with this guy, he just makes that impossible. 


Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 14, 2018, 02:06:30 pm
If the President doesn’t want to raise human rights during these negotiations, that’s his prerogative.  What I’m not fine with is the President of the United States saying things he knows are false (“false flattery”) in an attempt to get what he wants.

Well, there's our difference.  I think the end goal of the denuclearization of North Korea is so desireable that a bit of disingenuous butt-kissing along the way doesn't bother me in the least.  Getting the deal itself is far more important.

But that's just me.  Apparently, others feel differently.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 02:07:29 pm
I honestly think the biggest problem here is that too many of these people don't know what happens in real negotiations, in the real world.  They're too used to measuring these things by "optics", so they clutch their pearls when Trump flatters Kim.  What they don't understand is that those words cost nothing, and that sometimes, the guy on the other side of the table needs some sort of emotional validation or flattery before he'll move.  So, you give it a shot.  If it works, great.  If it doesn't...you go back to being an a-hole.

People are acting like Trump actually gave Kim something that matters.  He didn't.
Well said
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 14, 2018, 02:09:40 pm
Well, there's our difference.  I think the end goal of the denuclearization of North Korea is so desireable that a bit of butt-kissing along the way doesn't bother me in the least.  Getting the deal itself is far more important.

But that's just me.  Apparently, others feel differently.

It's possible to butt-kiss without outright lying.  At least for honest people it is.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 14, 2018, 02:10:41 pm
It's possible to butt-kiss without outright lying.  At least for honest people it is.

Again, I have no issue with saying something dishonest as part of negotiations with a scumbag if it gets me a deal that is worth it.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 14, 2018, 02:12:54 pm
Well, there's our difference.  I think the end goal of the denuclearization of North Korea is so desireable that a bit of butt-kissing along the way doesn't bother me in the least.  Getting the deal itself is far more important.

But that's just me.  Apparently, others feel differently.


If Kim responds to flattery, then flatter away.   Trump didn't want the Korea issue to be front and center on his plate.   It should have been addressed years ago.   Now there's no more time to kick the can - the NORKs have the nukes and the means to deliver them to our doorstep.   

Kiss his ass, Mr. President, or kick it.  Either way, it is despicable to hear his critics rooting for him to fail.   
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: musiclady on June 14, 2018, 02:13:42 pm
If the President doesn’t want to raise human rights during these negotiations, that’s his prerogative.  What I’m not fine with is the President of the United States saying things he knows are false (“false flattery”) in an attempt to get what he wants.  I think it just further degrades Trump’s credibility to publicly say that Kim loves his people when he’s starving them, torturing US citizens, publicly executing his own relatives, and holding 100+K people in political prison camps. 

Words may be cheap but the constant lying, misdirections, and false statements do cost something:  the credibility of the President of the United States.  I want to believe what my President says, but with this guy, he just makes that impossible.

That's the problem with electing a guy who has a long history of lying about everything.

Apparently some have the ability to pretend his character is not deeply flawed in the truth-telling department, but that to me, is naivte.   He is who he is, whether what he's saying is trivial, or extremely important (like now).

I would love to be hopeful that these negotiations mean something, but the completely madness and depraved cruelty of Kim and the lack of honesty in Trump make that impossible.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 14, 2018, 02:27:59 pm
(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35102405_10156408901591798_3812324894482366464_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=f43c34b1edab9151686317676306bd75&oe=5BB5E9CF)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: musiclady on June 14, 2018, 02:35:00 pm
People who don't trust people who lie about everything are not 'liberals.'

People who don't trust maniacal, evil dictators like Kim are not liberals either.....
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 14, 2018, 02:58:08 pm
People who don't trust people who lie about everything are not 'liberals.'

People who don't trust maniacal, evil dictators like Kim are not liberals either.....

Trust has nothing to do with any of this, on either side.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: musiclady on June 14, 2018, 03:16:40 pm
Trust has nothing to do with any of this, on either side.

While I profoundly disagree with your statement, it is not directly related to my refutation of the claim that those who don't love or trust Trump are 'liberals,'
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 03:34:47 pm
Words may be cheap but the constant lying, misdirections, and false statements do cost something:  the credibility of the President of the United States.  I want to believe what my President says, but with this guy, he just makes that impossible.

Well, I find Trump's declaration that there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea to be yet another impossible incredibility - made when we have ZERO verification beyond his words.

Trump is at best channelling Obama.

(http://image.ajunews.com/content/image/2018/06/14/20180614084531409878.jpg)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 03:40:25 pm
Again, I have no issue with saying something dishonest as part of negotiations with a scumbag if it gets me a deal that is worth it.

@Maj. Bill Martin
What did Trump say that was dishonest regarding the Summit?

His tweet that the threat of nuclear war is gone?   For now it appears to be largely gone from NK.  Perhaps a bit premature but then we don't know what else is going on.   Do they still have the capability?   Probably, but then so does Pakistan.  Do we worry about a nuclear attack from Pakistan on a daily basis like many have been from NK?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: ABX on June 14, 2018, 03:41:30 pm
Well, I find Trump's declaration that there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea to be yet another impossible incredibility - made when we have ZERO verification beyond his words.

Trump is at best channelling Obama.

(http://image.ajunews.com/content/image/2018/06/14/20180614084531409878.jpg)

Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/ (http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/)

Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: ABX on June 14, 2018, 03:43:05 pm
..and from good old Bill Clinton...

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/08/09/that-time-bill-clinton-said-north-korea-will-dismantle-its-nuke-program-n1981099
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 03:52:22 pm
Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/ (http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/)

EXACTLY!!!

For me, the issue on this board is not that Trump needs to be criticized for the effort - but that his rabid supported are hypocrites because they rightfully bashed Obama for similar statements over the Iran "deal", but now because it's Trump - everyone must support the effort.

To declare that "there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" because of a handshake in front of the cameras is as absurd as Obama saying Iran is no longer a terror threat after his 'deal'.

It is disconcerting to watch a people who not long ago were outraged when Obama's regime pulled all their propaganda crap over the Iran deal, suddenly sound just like Obama's drones singing the hosannas and dreaming of Nobel prizes when Trump did roughly the same damn thing.

And of course while ForeverTrump® are crowing about the 'framework' that Trump has established with North Korea - some of us DO REMEMBER when Slick made all his empty pronouncements with the same moronic regime over there.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=6TcbU5jAavw#)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: edpc on June 14, 2018, 04:05:38 pm
Do we worry about a nuclear attack from Pakistan on a daily basis like many have been from NK?


No, we worry about Pakistan, because they have an uncomfortably close relationship with some horrible groups, uphold a known nuclear proliferator as a national hero, and would be ready to assist with Saudi Arabia's desire to obtain nukes, if Iran keeps doing what everyone suspects.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 04:09:35 pm
EXACTLY!!!

For me, the issue on this board is not that Trump needs to be criticized for the effort - but that his rabid supported are hypocrites because they rightfully bashed Obama for similar statements over the Iran "deal", but now because it's Trump - everyone must support the effort.

To declare that "there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" because of a handshake in front of the cameras is as absurd as Obama saying Iran is no longer a terror threat after his 'deal'.

It is disconcerting to watch a people who not long ago were outraged when Obama's regime pulled all their propaganda crap over the Iran deal, suddenly sound just like Obama's drones singing the hosannas and dreaming of Nobel prizes when Trump did roughly the same damn thing.

And of course while ForeverTrump® are crowing about the 'framework' that Trump has established with North Korea - some of us DO REMEMBER when Slick made all his empty pronouncements with the same moronic regime over there.

! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=6TcbU5jAavw#)

In other words, here the forum member is going after anyone who supports Trump again.

Quote
For me, the issue on this board is not that Trump needs to be criticized for the effort - but that his rabid supported are hypocrites

Also, I doubt if there are any posts in this thread worshiping Trump over this deal in this thread. But even if one points out the truth, be ready for a rude or vulgar retort.

The analysis is shallow and without the president, we may well see terrorism at a much higher level than it is presently, we may not have seen the economy bounce back and being very productive here. Along with other measures, but I wouldn't expect honesty in the discussion.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Suppressed on June 14, 2018, 04:10:18 pm
and would be ready to assist with Saudi Arabia's desire to obtain nukes, if Iran keeps doing what everyone suspects.

...and we got stupid and distanced ourselves from KSA.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 04:13:03 pm
Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/ (http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/)

There was no Mike Pompeo in the Obama administration. Pompeo will be in charge of the verification process.

One can call any deal, a deal with Canada or Mexico even, "reminds me of the Iran deal";  I note, some people, EU and others, are still upholding the Iran deal. So, the trial is even still out on that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Concerned on June 14, 2018, 04:22:08 pm
There was no Mike Pompeo in the Obama administration. Pompeo will be in charge of the verification process.

One can call any deal, a deal with Canada or Mexico even, "reminds me of the Iran deal";  I note, some people, EU and others, are still upholding the Iran deal. So, the trial is even still out on that.

Pompeo is our ace in the hole IMO.  His involvement gives me some degree of confidence.   The fact that he and the Administration couldn’t get “verification” into the joint statement issued by Kim and Trump does cause me pause about whether Kim is really serious or not, but if there’s a deal to be had, I think Mike Pompeo will find it. 

At the end of the day though, I just can’t see North Korea really giving up their nuclear weapons after working for decades to get them and by having them, allowing their leader to stand side-by-side with the President of the United States.  Time will tell though, but as Pompeo said, we’re years away from major disarmament with NK.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: driftdiver on June 14, 2018, 04:23:10 pm
...and we got stupid and distanced ourselves from KSA.

Yeah distancing ourselves from the leader of the caliphate movement.  Also the place where the radical version of Islam was revived.

How silly
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 14, 2018, 04:27:31 pm
Reminds me of Obama's Iran proclamation.

http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/ (http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/09/obama-admin-declares-iran-and-hezbollah-no-longer-terrorist-threats/)

Well, isn't there a rather large difference between Obama's statement, and Trump's?

Obama was touting an actual, completed deal that gave Iran access to over $100B dollars with which to finance WMD's and terrorism in exchange for what amounts to a 10 year moratorium with inadequate verification.

Trump isn't talking about a completed deal, and has given up nothing of tangible value.  If he really thought that what Kim has said/done so far was actually enough, then he'd be ordering U.S. troops to leave the country, asking Congress to lift sanctions immediately, etc..  He hasn't done any of that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 04:32:50 pm
Trump isn't talking about a completed deal, and has given up nothing of tangible value.

"there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" - Donald J. Trump 06-13-18

Sounds like a completed deal to me.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 04:39:05 pm
http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/ (http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/)

That website publishes some stories; it looks like a lot of those websites that just disperse Russian or even Iranian propaganda like the Duran, Moon over Alabama or even Zero Hedge. Check some of the headlines on page one.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 14, 2018, 04:42:14 pm
"there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" - Donald J. Trump 06-13-18

Sounds like a completed deal to me.


In a completed deal, each side gets something of tangible value.  In this case, the tangible things Kim wants are the ending of economic sanctions and embargoes, and eventually the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Korea.  He's gotten neither of those things.

So if you think this is a "completed deal", then Kim hasn't gotten either of the major things he wanted.

I know you hate the guy, but just try to step back for a moment and consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.  If you start with that, then what he's doing with the statements you are pointing to is trying to tie Kim publicly to the positions he took during negotiations.  Trump is setting him (and us) up for one of two results:

1) a good, solid deal that is great for the U.S., or

2) no deal, but the moral/political high ground position where he went the extra mile to be conciliatory, friendly, and non-aggressive, but even that approach was met with lies and betrayal by Kim.  This latter option strengthens anything we want to do moving forward in terms of bringing heat on NK.  It also removes the last counter-arguments against not using military force to end Kim's ability to strike the U.S. with nukes.  Trump will legitimately be able to say that he offered every possible assurance to NK that we were not threatening him, were not going to try to destabilize or disrupt his regime, etc..  And that despite the entire world saying that Trump was being too nice, Kim still rejected it.

He's forcing Kim into a position where he either follows through, or offends and betrays the leader of the most powerful country in the world, who is not afraid to use military force.  By publicly saying how great Kim is, he makes Kim look like an even bigger turd if he doesn't follow through.

From the perspective of professional negotiations, this is sound.

ETA:  I should add this:  People should be getting a bit more nervous about how this increases the possibility that we will be engaging in military action.  Trump has set himself up -- I believe deliberately -- to be the aggrieved, insulted party if Kim doesn't follow through.  If this attempt fails, then I don't think Trump will stop at just threats next time.

He is boxing Kim in, and the press and pundits haven't yet figured that out.  But this approach reeks of Mattis and Kelly.  Kill them with kindness, and if that doesn't work, wipe them out.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 14, 2018, 05:33:36 pm
“...consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.”

In NYC, to get his skyscrapers green lighted and completed, Donald Trump has had to negotiate with some pretty shady, corrupt, bad actors. Oh, and the mob, too.  :laugh:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 14, 2018, 05:36:44 pm
...ETA:  I should add this:  People should be getting a bit more nervous about how this increases the possibility that we will be engaging in military action.  Trump has set himself up -- I believe deliberately -- to be the aggrieved, insulted party if Kim doesn't follow through.  If this attempt fails, then I don't think Trump will stop at just threats next time.

He is boxing Kim in, and the press and pundits haven't yet figured that out.  But this approach reeks of Pompeo, Mattis, etc..  Kill them with kindness, and if that doesn't work, wipe them out.

I agree with this assessment.  There will be no reasonable ground to claim we should have tried more diplomacy.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 05:43:58 pm
I know you hate the guy,

No Bill, I don't 'hate' the guy.  I regard him in a similar light as I did Bush II and Obama; a sad travesty.  Trump does provide more hilarious fodder than either of the two previous buffoons in the office.   I really do think Trump is more about self image and marketing than substance to serve as Administrator.

I'm actually more interested in the zeitgeist and the mass movement of Trump supporters in the country.  They have more of an immediate impact on me and mine than anything coming from Trump himself.

but just try to step back for a moment and consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.  If you start with that, then what he's doing with the statements you are pointing to is trying to tie Kim publicly to the positions he took during negotiations. 

Trump has not given me any reason to consider that he knows what he is doing.  His handling of the budget here at home with detractors in his own party has not engendered itself to afford him such grace.

More importantly Bill, I am not interested in analyzing the minutae and strategies imputed to Trump's ability to do underwater 12th dimensional chess by armchair internet commanders. While your suppositions can be rightly regarded as good hypothetical analysis, I think its ridiculous and stupid to to cheerlead this deal as a 'success' when we have ZERO verification that anything at all has been accomplished except getting the world to talk about them and heralding them as peace brokers up for prizes from Norway.  This has the feel of promoting image over substance to me, having experienced 16 years of that from the last two Democrats occupying the White House. Yes, call me cynical, but it's a learned mindset when looking at Washington.

If in the months ahead, Inspectors are allowed in to verify that the Norks are actually dismantling their nuke program (as they once promised they would do with Clinton for lots of cash we gave them that they of course reneged on), then Trump gets a win and a deserved acknowledgement of achievement.  Handing him a participation trophy is absurd.  I'm more irritated that the very people who would have been critical of the drones and the media efforts to hand Obama a participation trophy for the Iran deal are now the very people demanding everyone give Trump one along with a worthless prize from Norway.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: thackney on June 14, 2018, 05:46:16 pm
...I really do think Trump is more about self image and marketing than substance to serve as Administrator....

How can you possibly think that of a WWE Hall of Famer?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: guitar4jesus on June 14, 2018, 06:30:12 pm
In NYC, to get his skyscrapers green lighted and completed, Donald Trump has had to negotiate with some pretty shady, corrupt, bad actors.

He was one of them.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 06:36:51 pm
"there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea" - Donald J. Trump 06-13-18

Sounds like a completed deal to me.

Dishonest argument again, I'd urge people not to be taking things out of context, I looked up full articles on this. Trump said many other things. More proof of the "out to get Trump" crowd.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: TomSea on June 14, 2018, 06:37:43 pm
“...consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.”

I don't know who said this but it breaks my heart, that they don't see ISIS working full force in the ME. Yes, relevant.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: RoosGirl on June 14, 2018, 06:53:25 pm
“...consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.”

In NYC, to get his skyscrapers green lighted and completed, Donald Trump has had to negotiate with some pretty shady, corrupt, bad actors. Oh, and the mob, too.  :laugh:

He bribed them, didn't he?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 06:57:23 pm
Dishonest argument again, I'd urge people not to be taking things out of context, I looked up full articles on this. Trump said many other things. More proof of the "out to get Trump" crowd.

How is taking something he said in a tweet from his own twitter account taken out of context?  Please explain how using direct quotes is a dishonest argument?
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 07:02:45 pm
Dishonest argument again, I'd urge people not to be taking things out of context, I looked up full articles on this. Trump said many other things. More proof of the "out to get Trump" crowd.

Hey Genius, before making yourself a complete ass once again, you might have wanted to read his entire Tweet that prompted the commentary before commenting:

(http://image.ajunews.com/content/image/2018/06/14/20180614084531409878.jpg)

How is taking something he said in a tweet from his own twitter account taken out of context?  Please explain how using direct quotes is a dishonest argument?

Because it is not genuflecting and praising Trump to his satisfaction.  That is why he asserts it is a 'dishonest argument'.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 14, 2018, 07:15:33 pm
(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/35267146_1946933765317631_2198633345535967232_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=22afb64b23c905ca73322f61798988c4&oe=5B7A23B1)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 07:19:35 pm

Actually he's breaking even right now...not really winning...but not losing either.  Which is actually better than most would have expected at this point given the current political climate in America.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 14, 2018, 07:19:50 pm
(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/31355910_10155787548912991_1924952421518412874_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9c77bf5df01e291d33f03e982e67fdcf&oe=5BB0CBCA)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 14, 2018, 07:22:12 pm
Actually he's breaking even right now...not really winning...but not losing either.  Which is actually better than most would have expected at this point given the current political climate in America.

Spit it out!   Keep trying....don't give up...you can do it!


ROFL!   :laugh:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 07:22:42 pm

(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/host.madison.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/16/016227e4-3c11-5d71-96f4-bc2716f32290/5963b1a3f1036.image.jpg?resize=750%2C528)
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 07:23:23 pm
Spit it out!   Keep trying....don't give up...you can do it!


ROFL!   :laugh:

I'm not the one in need of spitting anything out.

Just sayin...
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: DCPatriot on June 14, 2018, 07:32:01 pm
I'm not the one in need of spitting anything out.

Just sayin...

Bullshit.

"He's not winning.   Okay, he's not losing, either.   He's in a holding pattern."

<NOPE>
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: txradioguy on June 14, 2018, 07:44:03 pm
Bullshit.

"He's not winning.   Okay, he's not losing, either.   He's in a holding pattern."

<NOPE>

I said he's at .500  for a president at this stage in his Presidency...or any presidency for that matter is pretty good.

Better take a look in the mirror DCP....what is truly pathetic is your Idolism of the man and everything he does and your unwillingness or inability to ever admit he's fallible and has made mistakes.

Pathetic is taking someone who was praising Trump and ripping them to shreds over the lack of use of the prefix Mr. when referring to Trump.

Your refusal to let anyone praise as well as criticize Trump without feeling the need to jump in and personally attack them is what is pathetic around here.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: aligncare on June 14, 2018, 08:22:24 pm
As beloved by the people as Obama was, as uncritical of Obama as congress was, as glowing and positive was the media coverage of Obama, as revered by Hollywood as Obama was, Trump’s approval numbers are higher now than those of Obama’s at this same stage of his presidency.

There’s always that.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: INVAR on June 14, 2018, 08:23:44 pm
@MOD3

Some animals are more equal than others, aren't they?   *****rollingeyes*****

He did not say you were pathetic.  He said your behavior was.

Big difference.
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Jazzhead on June 14, 2018, 08:30:44 pm

In a completed deal, each side gets something of tangible value.  In this case, the tangible things Kim wants are the ending of economic sanctions and embargoes, and eventually the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Korea.  He's gotten neither of those things.

So if you think this is a "completed deal", then Kim hasn't gotten either of the major things he wanted.

I know you hate the guy, but just try to step back for a moment and consider the possibility (however remote) that Trump actually knows what he is doing.  If you start with that, then what he's doing with the statements you are pointing to is trying to tie Kim publicly to the positions he took during negotiations.  Trump is setting him (and us) up for one of two results:

1) a good, solid deal that is great for the U.S., or

2) no deal, but the moral/political high ground position where he went the extra mile to be conciliatory, friendly, and non-aggressive, but even that approach was met with lies and betrayal by Kim.  This latter option strengthens anything we want to do moving forward in terms of bringing heat on NK.  It also removes the last counter-arguments against not using military force to end Kim's ability to strike the U.S. with nukes.  Trump will legitimately be able to say that he offered every possible assurance to NK that we were not threatening him, were not going to try to destabilize or disrupt his regime, etc..  And that despite the entire world saying that Trump was being too nice, Kim still rejected it.

He's forcing Kim into a position where he either follows through, or offends and betrays the leader of the most powerful country in the world, who is not afraid to use military force.  By publicly saying how great Kim is, he makes Kim look like an even bigger turd if he doesn't follow through.

From the perspective of professional negotiations, this is sound.

ETA:  I should add this:  People should be getting a bit more nervous about how this increases the possibility that we will be engaging in military action.  Trump has set himself up -- I believe deliberately -- to be the aggrieved, insulted party if Kim doesn't follow through.  If this attempt fails, then I don't think Trump will stop at just threats next time.

He is boxing Kim in, and the press and pundits haven't yet figured that out.  But this approach reeks of Pompeo, Mattis, etc..  Kill them with kindness, and if that doesn't work, wipe them out.

Kudos,  @Maj. Bill Martin ,  for the excellent, substantive contributions you are making to this thread.   :beer:
Title: Re: USA & No Korea Summit LIVE THREAD
Post by: Maj. Bill Martin on June 15, 2018, 06:55:53 pm
"I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you bleep with me, I’ll kill you all."

That's a Mattis quote.  It is also what Trump's overall message is to North Korea.  He is pulling out every last stop to be as nice as possible, but if that doesn't work....