The Briefing Room
General Category => Military/Defense News => Topic started by: rangerrebew on March 14, 2019, 12:47:59 pm
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Army snipers put new, more accurate rifle to the test
(Maj. Michael P. Brabner,
US Army sharpshooters recently field tested a new, more accurate sniper rifle out west, where these top marksman fired thousands of rounds and even when waged simulated warfare in force-on-force training.
Eight Army Ivy Division snipers assigned to the 2nd Infantry Brigade Combat Team tested out the new M110A1 Compact, Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS), an upgraded version of the current M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System (SASS), at Fort Carson in Colorado, the Army revealed in a statement.
Comparatively, the new CSASS offers advantageous features like increased accuracy and reduced weight, among other improvements.
https://www.wearethemighty.com/news/army-snipers-accurate-rifle-test (https://www.wearethemighty.com/news/army-snipers-accurate-rifle-test)
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Up Close And Personal With The Army’s Lethal New Sniper Rifle
by Jared Keller October 12, 2017 at 05:06 PM
https://taskandpurpose.com/csass-army-sniper-rifle (https://taskandpurpose.com/csass-army-sniper-rifle)
Despite a brief period of ambiguity wrought by budget-jousting among lawmakers in Congress, the Army’s new and improved sniper rifle is alive and well.
Heckler & Koch showed off its M110A1 7.62mm semi-automatic sniper rifle, selected for the Army’s Compact Semi-Automatic Sniper System (CSASS) program on the floor of the Association of the U.S. Army’s annual conference and exposition in Washington this week, a first up-close-and-personal look at the lightweight rifle.
With a 16 inch long barrel and weighing 8.7 pounds with an empty magazine, the HK certainly meets the Army’s CSASS requirements size and weight requirements. It boasts a Schmidt & Bender 3-20X50 PMII Ultra Short Scope for improved optics and accuracy.
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Anybody know what type bullet is commonly used,and how much it weighs?
Or have radicals now taken over,and one bullet isn't supposed to do everything?
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Anybody know what type bullet is commonly used,and how much it weighs?
Or have radicals now taken over,and one bullet isn't supposed to do everything?
I think they are using the "7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System)
7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range: A 175-grain round consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers and an undisclosed modified extruded propellant. The 7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range cartridges have an accuracy requirement based around 10-round shotgroups. The Propellant has been verified as modified version of IMR 4064 as stated in DODIC: AB39 NSN: 1305-01-567-6944.[citation needed]
The average extreme spread for 10-round shotgroups shall be less than or equal to the following values:
600 yd: 7.0 in (first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 548.6 m.
300 yd: 3.5 in (after first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 274.3 m.
The maximum muzzle velocity standard deviation is set at 15 ft/s (4.57 m/s). Information published on acceptance tests regarding five MK 316 MOD 0 cartridge production lots indicated a sub 2.4 in at 300 yd performance. This equates to a sub 0.8 MOA performance at 274.3 m for the listed ammunition lots.[12]
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I think they are using the "7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M24_Sniper_Weapon_System)
7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range: A 175-grain round consisting of Sierra MatchKing Hollow Point Boat Tail projectiles, Federal Cartridge Company match cartridge cases and Gold Medal Match primers and an undisclosed modified extruded propellant. The 7.62 × 51mm MK 316 MOD 0 Special Ball, Long Range cartridges have an accuracy requirement based around 10-round shotgroups. The Propellant has been verified as modified version of IMR 4064 as stated in DODIC: AB39 NSN: 1305-01-567-6944.[citation needed]
The average extreme spread for 10-round shotgroups shall be less than or equal to the following values:
600 yd: 7.0 in (first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 548.6 m.
300 yd: 3.5 in (after first Production Lot). This equates to a ≤ 1.1 MOA requirement at 274.3 m.
The maximum muzzle velocity standard deviation is set at 15 ft/s (4.57 m/s). Information published on acceptance tests regarding five MK 316 MOD 0 cartridge production lots indicated a sub 2.4 in at 300 yd performance. This equates to a sub 0.8 MOA performance at 274.3 m for the listed ammunition lots.[12]
@Elderberry
Sure sounds good on paper,doesn't it? I wonder what the rifling twist is?
I'd like to pick up a box or two to try in my FAL. Too lazy to load it up myself anymore.
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@Elderberry
Sure sounds good on paper,doesn't it? I wonder what the rifling twist is?
I'd like to pick up a box or two to try in my FAL. Too lazy to load it up myself anymore.
1:11
https://www.knightarmco.com/12016/shop/military/m110 (https://www.knightarmco.com/12016/shop/military/m110)
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I don't mind loading for bolt actions and revolvers. I just hate looking for ejected brass.
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BKMK
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Funny bI was just reading that the .224 Valkyrie was the "hot new round" for long distance.
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1:11
https://www.knightarmco.com/12016/shop/military/m110 (https://www.knightarmco.com/12016/shop/military/m110)
@Elderberry
DAYUM! I am going to have to get hold of a box or two of that stuff and try it out,
I know I am always ranting about how the US Military should just STFU and adopt the FN-FAL in 7x57 as their new battle rifle for making long shots,but my own FAL is in 308. My thinking is that there is no way in hell the clerks with stars that make these decisions is going to go back to 308 after spending decades getting rid of the 30/06 and 308 battle rifles. That would be just like admitting they were wrong,and no bureaucrat will EVER do that.
And since they can't go 30 caliber and are trying to get away from 22 caliber,it's gotta be a 7 mm.
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Funny bI was just reading that the .224 Valkyrie was the "hot new round" for long distance.
@verga
You can read anything,but if you want to shoot across a valley with all those gusty cross winds and take out a human-sized target,you need a 7mm or a 7.62 mm as a minumum. Any bore smaller eliminates your ability to shoot the long,heavy bullets. Since the 50 BMG round ain't NEVER going to be a main battle rifle unless we breed a generation of giants,it's gotta be something smaller and still bigger than a 22. Any bore with a diameter smaller than 7 mm is just too small,
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I sure hated that they went from 06 to 308. I have 2 Garands and a Rem 760 Pump in 06. My boys have run thru all my 06 Match ammo. I still have hundreds of Greek delinked MG ammo. I wouldn't mind them going to 7mm at all. I have a 95 and a 98 Mauser in 7mm Mauser. I chambered them to be as identical to each other as I could, so I could run necksized ammo thru both and not care which gun it was shot in. That 95Mauser is the most accurate as I mounted a very stiff Madsen MG barrel on it.
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Funny bI was just reading that the .224 Valkyrie was the "hot new round" for long distance.
From what I've read, the .224 Valkyrie is a long distance "Lightning Rod" if all you care about is paper punching.
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@verga
You can read anything,but if you want to shoot across a valley with all those gusty cross winds and take out a human-sized target,you need a 7mm or a 7.62 mm as a minumum. Any bore smaller eliminates your ability to shoot the long,heavy bullets. Since the 50 BMG round ain't NEVER going to be a main battle rifle unless we breed a generation of giants,it's gotta be something smaller and still bigger than a 22. Any bore with a diameter smaller than 7 mm is just too small,
Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.
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Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.
I have a short action Rem 700. It was a .243 for many years and then I rebarreled it to .308. I was not able to load as long as I desired so I decided to change again. I went to the 6.5x47 Lapua. I can load as long as I desire and have killed several deer and hogs with it. My first AR15 build was the 6.5 Grendel and I'm pleased with its performance. I can load the same bullets I run in the Lapua, 130gr Berger VLDs, with an acceptable velocity penalty from the Lapua. My current AR15 build was the 358 Yeti that uses a shortened .308 family of cases.
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Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.
@verga
Sounds to me you have already decided you need a 7MM,but just haven't realized it yet.
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I have a short action Rem 700. It was a .243 for many years and then I rebarreled it to .308. I was not able to load as long as I desired so I decided to change again. I went to the 6.5x47 Lapua. I can load as long as I desire and have killed several deer and hogs with it. My first AR15 build was the 6.5 Grendel and I'm pleased with its performance. I can load the same bullets I run in the Lapua, 130gr Berger VLDs, with an acceptable velocity penalty from the Lapua. My current AR15 build was the 358 Yeti that uses a shortened .308 family of cases.
:thumbsup:
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@verga
Sounds to me you have already decided you need a 7MM,but just haven't realized it yet.
Can I get 1,000+ yards consistent hits with a 7mm?
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Can I get 1,000+ yards consistent hits with a 7mm?
@verga
Depends on how well you shoot,how careful you are putting your loads together,the size of what it is you are shooting at,and how big that "plus" is.
But generally speaking,the 7mm will do it better than any 6 or 6.5 mm round,and not quite as well as some of the 30 caliber rounds. It's all about bullet weight/design and case capacity,as well as powder selection. Get a few reloading manuals and look up the various loads.
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Can I get 1,000+ yards consistent hits with a 7mm?
Absolutely.
Sniping Cartridges – 7mm Remington Magnum
http://www.snipercentral.com/cartridges-7mm/ (http://www.snipercentral.com/cartridges-7mm/)
While we initially did not include the 7mm Rem Mag in our ammo section, it actually does have a sniper history, primarily with the US Secret Service. They used the 7mm Rem Mag for a good number of years using ammo loaded by HSM. The Secret Service eventually migrated to the 300 Win Mag and since then the 7mm has really only been minimally used in the sniping community, though it is a favorite of hunters and even some competitors.
One of the reasons the 7mm has not gained wide acceptance as a sniping round is because it is seen that anything the 7mm can do, the .300 Win Mag can do as well or better. The 7mm doesn’t kick as much but it shoots lighter bullets than the .300, though some of them have very high BC’s which allows it to do well at longer ranges. With the right ammo, the 0-1000 meter ballistics are VERY impressive and the 7mm is easily capable of 1000+ meter shooting, but it falls short of the .300 in most regards while significantly outpacing the .308 (Which really shouldn’t surprise anyone). The Remington 700P was available for a while chambered in the 7mm Rem Mag, but beyond that there are not a lot of sniper rifle options available that are not custom built rifles. Luckily HSM still loads the excellent 7mm 168gr match load that the Secret Service used and it is available for purchase as is a 168gr Berger and 162gr Amax load which both will rival the A191 300 WM load.
Recommendation:The 7mm is recommended for military applications out to 1000+ meters.
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@verga
Sounds to me you have already decided you need a 7MM,but just haven't realized it yet.
@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?
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@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?
Case capacity. The latter will hold a lot more powder than the former which may or may not translate into higher performance.
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@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?
Another one to look at, the 7mm Practical
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html (https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html)
Performance
Over the years, I have developed some extremely potent loads for this cartridge but for long range precision work, accuracy is the key. A long throated gun can drive a 162 grain bullet at around 3275fps. The same goes for 28-32†barreled guns or suppressed rifles which also boost velocities. But publishing such data has a tendency to create over optimistic expectations with folk chasing velocity over accuracy. Taking into account the many rifles in circulation and from a 26†barrel, extreme accuracy sweet spots for the 7mm Practical and 160-162gr bullets are generally between 3200 and 3225fps. Bullets weighing 175 to 180 grains generally produce sweet spots at around 3000 to 3050fps. The 195 grain Berger can be driven at velocities of 2950fps to 3000fps.
The 7mm Remington Magnum with a 26†barrel (e.g Remington Sendero) tends to produce average high end sweet spots of 3070fps with a 160-162 grain bullet though some rifles boast velocities of 3125fps. Sweet spots for 175-180 grain bullets can be as high as 2925fps however the 180 grain ELD-M tends to work best at around 2860fps in the Remington. The Practical therefore produces velocities which are on average 125 to 150fps faster than the Rem Mag. The 7mm RUM generally produces sweet spots with 160-162 grain bullets at 3275fps. The Practical (without mucking around with long barrels or long throats) is therefore 50-75fps behind the RUM but with much greater barrel life and with much greater (or easier) accuracy. The Practical can last to and beyond 1200 rounds while the 7mm RUM can fall over anywhere between 400 to 600 rounds. A bore scope is all that is needed to provide hard evidence of this. The Practical truly is a common sense limit for the 7mm bore.
The 7mm Practical is best suited to light through to mid weight game species but is also able to tackle larger game species with new select bullets, more so now thanks to new heavy weight bullet designs. The high velocities of the Practical can be used as a means to maximize wound trauma at extended ranges with minimum wind drift. The Practical cannot however fire the very heavy 200-285 grain bullets that prove so effective in the .300 and .338 magnums when used on large heavy bodied game. Elk are the upper limit for the 7mm Practical.
This is a very flat shooting, wind beating cartridge and at times, it feels as though one is almost cheating, such is its good performance. The Practical makes the .338’s seem like old Cadillac’s in comparison. Due to the nature of my work, I spend a great deal of time testing the .338 bores and it is always a relief to go back to the laser like performance of the Practical. At “extended ranges†of 400-600 yards, shots can be taken with a great deal of ease. At 700 to 800 yards, the Practical really begins to come into its own. At truly long ranges, one becomes infinitely grateful for its abilities.
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The 7mm-08 is my personal favorite. Had the military adopted it - and aptly called it the 7x51 - it would be everywhere. Incredible inherent accuracy, terrific ballistics, and light recoil. What's not to like? My favorite north woods carry rifle? My Browning BLR in 7mm-08 (it was my father's). I load it with 139 gr. ballistic tip rounds and H414 powder.
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@verga
If I were you, I would be looking for a .270 short winchester magnum.
I know Savage is currently producing rifles chambered in that caliber and factory ammo is widely available. IMHO you can't go wrong with that. If I could own only one rifle, that would be my choice hands down.
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The 7mm-08 is my personal favorite. Had the military adopted it - and aptly called it the 7x51 - it would be everywhere. Incredible inherent accuracy, terrific ballistics, and light recoil. What's not to like? My favorite north woods carry rifle? My Browning BLR in 7mm-08 (it was my father's). I load it with 139 gr. ballistic tip rounds and H414 powder.
Your 7-08 Rem is ballistically equivalent to my much older 7mm Mausers. Even though it has less case capacity of 52.2 gr to Mauser's 55.6 gr it can even exceed the velocity of the Mauser due to its SAAMI pressure of 61,000 psi to Mauser's lower 51,000 psi due to all the older weaker rifles, like my 95 Mauser. The 7mm Mauser was loaded initially with a 173 gr bullet using a 1 in 8.66 twist. The 7-08 with it's faster 1 in 9.5 twist was designed for lighter bullets. The 7-08 can be used in a short action rifle, but if using heavy weight bullets, the bullets will have to be deep seated to fit the magazine, not a problem with the Mauser, or even a 7-08 in a standard length action.
More info:https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/29/a-tale-of-two-sevens-the-7-mm-08-vs-the-7x57-mm-mauser/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/9/29/a-tale-of-two-sevens-the-7-mm-08-vs-the-7x57-mm-mauser/)
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@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?
@verga
Sorry for the late reply.I had almost completed a reply to you earlier,and for some reason unknown to me the whole damn web page disappeared and I couldn't find it until now.
Anyway,the physical difference is one is based on the standard 308 Winchester case and the other is based on the much larger 300 Winchester belted magnum case.
IMNSHO,the way to go is the 7mm-08 unless you are shooting dangerous big game or mostly shooting at targets or varmits 1000 + yards away.
The necked down to 7mm 308 Win/Nato case is pretty close to an ideal combo IMNSHO. MUCH cheaper to reload for,much more effecient for standard hunting loads,and you don't need an expensive Magnumn-length action to build the gun.
Nor will you need a 26 inch heavy barrel like you would with the 300 Mag case.
Then again,I am a little biased against the 300 Winchester Magnum. Never did like the case design. I MUCH prefered the 300 H&H magnum chambering. I once owned one in a 700 Remington action and would do a little happy dance every time I picked it up. SOB would shoot 3 touching holes at 100 yards all day long if I did my part,and accuracy is the ballistics Gawd that I worship above all others. Unfortunately I got hard up for money once when sick,and had to sell most of my guns,inlcuding the 300 H&H. Still miss it,though. I am betting that whoever owns it now could probably sell it for serious bucks to a Remington collector. It's been a LONG time since you could buy a new Remington chambered for the 300 H&H Magnum,and I don't see it ever being offered again.
To sum it up,if most of your shooting will be at large,dangerous game at close range,or harmless game at 1000 yards or so,go with the 7 MM Magnum chambering. If your shooting isn't quite that demanding,go with the 7mm-08 chambering.
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Another one to look at, the 7mm Practical
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html (https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/7mm+Practical.html)
@Elderberry
I can't find a thing you wrote that I can disagree with. I will add that *I* personally hate long throats as I find them to be the enemy of accuracy unless you exclusively shoot long bullets that "kiss" the bore,as well having short lives due to erosion. They are ok as long as you only shoot rounds designed to work with them,though.
IMNSHO,I think the pick for MOST shooters would be the 7mm-08.
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If Trump would declare the Mexican cartels as terrorist organizations, they could try it across the border taking out the terrorists. :whistle:
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@sneaky pete I checked out several 7mm on you tube. 7mm 08, and the 7mm 300 win mag.
What is the difference between these?
@verga
In very basic terms, the 7mm-08 was developed by necking down the .308 cartridge (7.62x51) so it is a short action round. @Lando Lincoln is correct in calling it 7x51. The combination of accuracy, ballistics and light recoil makes it a winner. Factory ammo pricing is reasonable also. The recoil of the 7mm Magnum can beat the snot out of you if you like to shoot and is more prone to rip up game if bone is struck. I know some guys who have the 7mm-08 in a reasonably priced Savage 110 bolt. Incredible accuracy. It is a winner.
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Just built a .223 Wylde. I can run .223 or 5.56 through it all day long. Shoots like a dream. I am trying to decide between a .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor for my next build project. The .308 will give me the power, but the 6.5 will give me a little more distance accuracy.
@verga
You haven't identified a platform for your build. You built a .223. That could be an AR15 or a bolt action. Then you brought up .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor that can run in both an AR10 or bolt action. And you commented about a need for 1000 yd accuracy. You also commented about the .224 Valkyrie.
Have you considered it's big brother the 7mm Valkyrie AR if you are looking for an AR 15 build? In the link, it shows 1000 yd vel of 1366 fps with the 168 gr Berger.
https://www.7mmvalkyrie.com/ (https://www.7mmvalkyrie.com/)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/7mm_Valkyire_AR_wildcat/121-678825/ (https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/7mm_Valkyire_AR_wildcat/121-678825/)
And my son has a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag. I have shot it with him several times at the range. I would have to say its recoil, to me, is not noticeable. It may be due to his Accuracy International stock he has on it. Its actually a pleasure to shoot.
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@Elderberry
Thanks for the comments. My story is the flip of yours but I understand your remarks about recoil. A lot depends on the platform, as you say. I have a nicely sporterized Mauser set up in .30-06. I bought it at an auction some thirty or thirty-five years ago in North Dakota. It is nice but it absolutely jars the bones. It recoils much worse than my other 06's or .45-70. I had a gunsmith look at it years ago and all he could recommend was installing a muzzle brake. I don't shoot it anymore. I know I flinch.
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I had the misfortune once of getting pinched between the steel buttplate and the gun bench when I fired my 98 Mauser. Fortunately, soon after that, I lucked into a composite stock for it at a gun show at a reasonable price. Once I was at the rifle range and a young shooter next to me asked if I would shoot his rifle for him as his shoulder was already too sore and wanted to know if it was sighted in close enough. He was shooting a light, short stocked, scoped, 30-30 lever action. He was probably not pulling that short stock tight into his shoulder. I've always run peep sights on lever actions myself. I have been known to put a sand bag between the butt plate and my shoulder.
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@Elderberry
Thanks for the comments. My story is the flip of yours but I understand your remarks about recoil. A lot depends on the platform, as you say. I have a nicely sporterized Mauser set up in .30-06. I bought it at an auction some thirty or thirty-five years ago in North Dakota. It is nice but it absolutely jars the bones. It recoils much worse than my other 06's or .45-70. I had a gunsmith look at it years ago and all he could recommend was installing a muzzle brake. I don't shoot it anymore. I know I flinch.
@Lando Lincoln
Does it still have the military stock? You would be surprised how much a properly built stock that fits you does to reduce recoil,and recoil with any of the late 1800's or early 1900's military rifles is brutal.
If money is a little tight,you can probably contact one of the gunsmithing schools and have a stock build and only pay for the materials. Make sure you contact them before you ship the barrelled receiver off about the measurements they will need.
The bad news is to expect to wait months to get it back.
Or you could just buy a semi-finished blank from a company that sells stocks,and do the inletting and glass bedding yourself. If you have never done this,I HIGHLY recommend buy at least two books on how to carve and finish gun stocks. Brownells can supply you with quality woodworking tools at a reasonable price,and probably provide you with a semi-finished stock in the wood of your choice,too.
BTW,if you have never done this before,take my advise and buy the cheapest chuck of plain walnut you can buy. Some people just seem to have a gift for building stocks,and others,like me,can destroy a freaking forest trying to get one right. If the cheap semi works out for you,you can always pick out a nicer semi later to inlet if you want something pretty. If it doesn't work out for you,you know to not waste anymore of your money on blanks,and to have a gunsmithing school or a pro do the work.
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@verga
You haven't identified a platform for your build. You built a .223. That could be an AR15 or a bolt action. Then you brought up .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor that can run in both an AR10 or bolt action. And you commented about a need for 1000 yd accuracy. You also commented about the .224 Valkyrie.
Have you considered it's big brother the 7mm Valkyrie AR if you are looking for an AR 15 build? In the link, it shows 1000 yd vel of 1366 fps with the 168 gr Berger.
https://www.7mmvalkyrie.com/ (https://www.7mmvalkyrie.com/)
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/7mm_Valkyire_AR_wildcat/121-678825/ (https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/7mm_Valkyire_AR_wildcat/121-678825/)
And my son has a Rem 700 in 300 Win Mag. I have shot it with him several times at the range. I would have to say its recoil, to me, is not noticeable. It may be due to his Accuracy International stock he has on it. Its actually a pleasure to shoot.
@Elderberry The .223 was done on an AR platform. I had originally considered the .224 Val on the AR platform, I was talked out of it due to availability of ammo. I then began to consider putting a 6.5 Creed upper on my AR for long distance (1,000 +) target. I have a friend that is putting n a 1200 yard range and want to give it a shot. The guy that helped me build the AR suggested the Ruger Predator in 6.5 will get me out to 1,000 yards with out a problem. I like the idea of a bolt action for distance shooting because (in my opinion) you have to take a pause and think about each shot. I have a weatherby bolt action knock off in 30 06 that is adequate, but just adequate. And frankly there is a part of my that wants the satisfaction of saying that I built it myself.
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I hadn't heard about the Predator. It looks like a good deal. If the wind is variable, you many not want to pause too long between shots. Were you going to put that 6.5 Creed on an AR10?
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I hadn't heard about the Predator. It looks like a good deal. If the wind is variable, you many not want to pause too long between shots. Were you going to put that 6.5 Creed on an AR10?
Yes. That seems like the best way to go. Everyone here has given me a lot to think about with the 7mm suggestions.
It will be a while before I can afford to add another rifle to the harem so I am going to do more research and see if I can test fire ones tha friends of mine have.